PDA

View Full Version : What before the 970 ?


TMJ1974
Dec 9, 2002, 01:58 PM
If Apple keeps with their current introduction "schedule" there is (at least) one more PowerMac to be introduced before the new IBM chip is available. Everyone seems to think that the current G4 is maxed at 1.25Ghz.

Will Apple really wait a year between revisions (if they choose to wait for the 970)? If not, what will be in the next version?

Keeping with the 6 month timeframe, that would indicate a February/March timeframe.

I ask, not to start rumors, but buying advise. I have a Quicksilver 733Mhz single processor, and was considering using Holiday $$$ to get one of the current PowerMacs, or should I wait until the next revision?

Either way, I will upgrade again when the 970 is inside. I'm just tempted by the benefits of dual processors for my photo/video work.

Thanks for the advise.

Tim

Ambrose Chapel
Dec 9, 2002, 02:39 PM
I suppose there are several things that could happen. Moto could be able to wring a few more MHz from the G4 to go into the next (and presumably last) Power Mac G4. Maybe they will be really small increases and Apple will sell the next revision on something else - FireWire 2, Quad processors, etc. All they need to reach I guess is 1.33, so there is a line up of dual 1 (or even 933), dual 1.25 and dual 1.33. Or if 1.25 really is the end of the line, Apple could simply not update at all, then announce the new Power Mac 970 a couple of months before it will ship and start taking pre-orders.

I guess we'll find out soon enough....

Just something else more specific to your question - if you buy now you'll be able to boot into OS 9; if you wait for the next revision, whatever it is, it'll be OS X boot only.

TMJ1974
Dec 9, 2002, 02:58 PM
Thank you, I had completely forgotten about the OS 9 situation. I actually don't/try not to use OS 9, but, it's nice to have the option, should I need to.

Tim

wheezl
Dec 9, 2002, 03:43 PM
You could always buy a Dual CPU Upgrade from somone like Powerlogix http://www.powerlogix.com. This would save you money, and give you a bit more time to wait on Apple's next move.

bluecell
Dec 9, 2002, 03:45 PM
What before the 970?

Apple loses marketshare (unless they use AMD). The G4 is s***. I'm definitely not buying another machine with that processor in it. It's not worth it.

zimv20
Dec 9, 2002, 04:28 PM
Originally posted by bluecell
The G4 is s***. I'm definitely not buying another machine with that processor in it. It's not worth it.

my dual 500 runs just fine. and it's snappy. i like it.

why is it s***?

MacCoaster
Dec 9, 2002, 04:34 PM
Originally posted by zimv20
my dual 500 runs just fine. and it's snappy. i like it.

why is it s***?
Oh god, not another processor war. :rolleyes:

TMJ1974
Dec 9, 2002, 04:59 PM
Thanks for the upgrade card option, that is actually a very good one.

I was planning on selling the Quicksilver and put the difference towards the new MirrorDoor. The difference is actually about the same as the upgrade card, BUT, I wouldn't have to buy all new memory (I have 1.5G). It would be nice to have 2 more hard drives though. Hmmmmm.....tough choices. Although, the Dual 1Ghz upgrade card is very tempting.

Tim

Mal
Dec 9, 2002, 05:18 PM
This goes with the 17" PowerBook rumors too, but I thought I'd mention it here. A guy came into the store where I work (an Apple Authorized Service Center) and told us that his brother had a prototype 17" PowerBook with a 1.5GHz G4 in it. When I mentioned that to our specialist, he just said that he was under a no-disclosure agreement with Apple, and couldn't talk about it. The only thing he asked me about what the guy said is whether he had said G4 or another type of chip, which I don't remember if he did or not. So either the whole conversation was a load of bull, or Apple has a better G4 or a better chip coming soon. BTW, the guy said that it was supposed to come out in the next few months, which fits the time frame that everyone has said.

JW

non fiction
Dec 9, 2002, 11:24 PM
I am far from an authority on these things, but I have been following this circus from the beginning. It has been a long time since we have heard from Motorola, but I have a feeling there might be a (moto) G5 sometime soon. This is not to say the 970 will not be in apples future, but it still seems a way off. Can you imagine it early next year? We all wish. As for the G4, it has certainly been pushed past its planned raodmap for Mhz. Maybe they can squeeze a little more out, but a tiny speed bump early next year would be a real embarrassment for Apple. The last upgrade was little more than a webpage update. Apple made no big deal out of it at all. There does seem to be plans to upgrade other parts of the mother board, but that will not be much of a marketing tool. A post a few weeks back spoke of the G5 being ready as far back as 18 months ago, but then all was put on hold. Seems reasonable that if this where true, they should have ironed out the production issues by now.

As I said, no expert, but Motorola will be playing a big role in Apples future for at least the next few years, with G3's and G4's in at least the laptops and low end macs.

Whatever eventuates, 2003 should be a ripper of a year for Apple and the PPC......

bluecell
Dec 10, 2002, 12:12 AM
I hope we don't see a G5 from Motorola. Their roadmap has been static for quite some time now. Apple will continue to get destroyed if they keep pushing the G4 and G3 for another year.

zimv20
Dec 10, 2002, 12:48 AM
Originally posted by bluecell
I hope we don't see a G5 from Motorola. Their roadmap has been static for quite some time now. Apple will continue to get destroyed if they keep pushing the G4 and G3 for another year.

just curious, what mac are you using now?

insidedanshead
Dec 10, 2002, 01:05 AM
bluecell, as much as I hate to .. I agree with you. But kill the harshness matey. The G3 has EOLed.. I don't care what any mac junkie says. They are about to break the 3 Ghz barrier on the PC side (if they haven't already) and the G4 is dang near the bottom of its barrel. Optimism would be to hope that MWSF would bring announcement of a 970 inclusion into future mac hardware even if at the time they don't announce any newer faster machines with a G4. We all wanna get that feeling back when the G4 was first introduced.. to know that we have the biggest baddest processor on our side.. but we don't anymore. and I know were going to get it.. just the sooner the better. Apple needs to focus on Processing power not only for the CPU but also with their GPUs.. they need to hop the GeForce FX bandwagon as soon as PCs do.. apple used to do that.. not anymore.

bluecell
Dec 10, 2002, 04:53 AM
Originally posted by zimv20

just curious, what mac are you using now? PowerBook G4/800MHz

bluecell
Dec 10, 2002, 05:29 AM
Originally posted by insidedanshead
bluecell, as much as I hate to .. I agree with you. But kill the harshness matey. The G3 has EOLed.. I don't care what any mac junkie says. They are about to break the 3 Ghz barrier on the PC side (if they haven't already) and the G4 is dang near the bottom of its barrel. Optimism would be to hope that MWSF would bring announcement of a 970 inclusion into future mac hardware even if at the time they don't announce any newer faster machines with a G4. We all wanna get that feeling back when the G4 was first introduced.. to know that we have the biggest baddest processor on our side.. but we don't anymore. and I know were going to get it.. just the sooner the better. Apple needs to focus on Processing power not only for the CPU but also with their GPUs.. they need to hop the GeForce FX bandwagon as soon as PCs do.. apple used to do that.. not anymore. And I don't hate to admit it? Look, I've been through 5 PowerBooks and 2 PowerMacs (and 1 Performa). I'm very much in support of Apple. Today, they're having problems, mostly because of the slow development of PowerPC. I feel bad because Apple is getting railed by Motorola and IBM hasn't done anything for them since the G3. Everybody wants to shoot the messenger, but this is the sad reality we have to face. I have no doubt that the future looks bright for Apple, but things aren't that great right now. It's not going to get any better with the G4 or the G3. They're far behind in the game.

MacOS X is the greatest OS ever and I'd like the hardware to complement it. Especially with all of the sound design and video work that I do, which includes batch processing. Personally, I need a better machine.

zimv20
Dec 10, 2002, 05:41 AM
Originally posted by insidedanshead
The G3 has EOLed

i'm sorry, but i don't agree w/ that.

i picked up a new ibook today, 800 MHz, and it's fast enough for my needs: email, browsing, listening to mp3s, writing. and i'll probably do some protools editing on it.

if i were doing some heavy-duty video editing, i'd want a g4 or better. but i don't do that.

check out how the ibooks fared here:
link (http://macspeedzone.com/html/hardware/machine/comparison/portable/powerbook/index.shtml)

granted, the g4s did better at the altivec-enabled stuff, but i think the g3 represented.

zimv20
Dec 10, 2002, 05:50 AM
Originally posted by bluecell
IBM hasn't done anything for them since the G3.

but the g3's still in development. it's not the same chip it was 4 years ago. and as i've think i've made clear, IMHO it's a good chip.

with all of the sound design and video work that I do, which includes batch processing. Personally, I need a better machine.

i hope apple gets you one, soon.

MOST people (i'm excluding you), i think, get way too caught up in "Intel is so much faster and we're getting behind!" honestly, how fast does a machine have to be to read email? i feel people purchase more power than they really need.

all right, for those batching renders, you've got a point. but allow me to disagree that apple is doomed.

just for kicks, bluecell, what kind of render times are you looking at, typically? and what would they be on the top of the line PC?

PeteyKohut
Dec 10, 2002, 07:22 AM
Originally posted by TMJ1974
Thanks for the upgrade card option, that is actually a very good one.

I was planning on selling the Quicksilver and put the difference towards the new MirrorDoor. The difference is actually about the same as the upgrade card, BUT, I wouldn't have to buy all new memory (I have 1.5G). It would be nice to have 2 more hard drives though. Hmmmmm.....tough choices. Although, the Dual 1Ghz upgrade card is very tempting.

Tim
If extra hard drives is what yer after, get a PCI ATA card and another hard drive. I have an 867 QS and don't plan on even thinking about purchasing a new computer until the 970 makes its debut. Aside from those new machines being ugly, they are noisy as all heck!

dongmin
Dec 10, 2002, 09:48 AM
well everyone was saying the G4 (7455) had reached its limit at 1 ghz. Then Apple-Moto trumped it by 25%.

There've been reports of people overclocking safely to 1.33 without any additional cooling and even to 1.5 (with mixed results).

I think they'll be able to get to 1.5 ghz pretty safely by next Febuary. The big question, for me, is whether the 970s will be ready to ship in volume by next August/September. Everyone seems to be thinking it's a done deal but I'm not too sure.

Akira
Dec 10, 2002, 10:24 AM
Originally posted by zimv20


but the g3's still in development. it's not the same chip it was 4 years ago. and as i've think i've made clear, IMHO it's a good chip.



i hope apple gets you one, soon.

MOST people (i'm excluding you), i think, get way too caught up in "Intel is so much faster and we're getting behind!" honestly, how fast does a machine have to be to read email? i feel people purchase more power than they really need.

all right, for those batching renders, you've got a point. but allow me to disagree that apple is doomed.

just for kicks, bluecell, what kind of render times are you looking at, typically? and what would they be on the top of the line PC?
You're absolutely right, people tend to buy more power than they need, but that's all part of it, you want to be able to brag about how fast your machine is etc.
It's the same story with mobile phones, everybody nowadays wants to have polyphone ringtones, thousands of colors on their tft screen, be able to download new games etc. People forget that a mobile phone is made to communicate verbally with eachother, no, most people just want to look cool.
Same with cars. Who doesn't want a Spyker C8 Double 12 (really sweet sportscar) that can go way over 300 km/h, while it's illegal to drive faster than 120 km/h...

by the way, my next Apple will have a 970 processor (if I have the $$$)

Catfish_Man
Dec 10, 2002, 10:27 AM
...(.13 micron G4+) DOES exist (according to a Motorola roadmap). It has 512k L2 cache and scales to 1.8GHz. When it'll be out is anyone's guess, but I think it has to be soon. I don't remember clearly, but I think it supports a faster bus. There's also the 7457-RM which has RapidIO, but that's not 'till 2004.

Kid Red
Dec 10, 2002, 10:52 AM
As I've said before, we will get a new mobo G4 from Moto in Jan/Feb not sure the chip # or speed but it will be the last Moto chip before the 970 due in Aug/Sept.

MrMacMan
Dec 10, 2002, 10:58 AM
So people what is comming, overclocked G4's so we can get a even bigger fan.
w00! Darn I thought the things needed cooling now...
Is apple in limbo bewteen chips?
I don't think the G5 is coming either they had problems in step 6 I belive right 2 steps before mass production...DOH!

pgwalsh
Dec 10, 2002, 11:12 AM
We will see the Apple branded G5 with speeds exceeding 1.5Ghz. We'll also see serial ATA, USB2, 1394b, hypertransport and true DDR support.

In addition there will be a new application for kids called iCaptainKangaroo. The application will feature a sleek new psychedelic interface geared towards infants and small children. The purpose is to ensue these children grow up to be Mac zealots and secure Apples future in the education market. That's all I can say for now.

insidedanshead
Dec 10, 2002, 01:50 PM
honestly.. where would the world be without sarcasm?

and to touch on a few peoples comments about "why need faster machines to check email?" well its all about the numbers.. I don't care how hard apple pushes the MHz myth.. average Joe blow consumer will look at two machines a pc and mac and be like hey for half the price I can get double the Mhz with the PC.. thats it.. unfortunately that's one of the biggest reasons apple needs to bump up mhz.. I don't really care what chip they do it with they just need to do something.

pgwalsh
Dec 10, 2002, 02:43 PM
Originally posted by insidedanshead
honestly.. where would the world be without sarcasm?

and to touch on a few peoples comments about "why need faster machines to check email?" well its all about the numbers.. I don't care how hard apple pushes the MHz myth.. average Joe blow consumer will look at two machines a pc and mac and be like hey for half the price I can get double the Mhz with the PC.. thats it.. unfortunately that's one of the biggest reasons apple needs to bump up mhz.. I don't really care what chip they do it with they just need to do something.

They're also coming out with iCaptainKangarooPro and that's to convert adults while looking at PC's and Mac's.

You will buy a Mac. You will buy a Mac. You will buy a Mac. Mhz is a myth. You will buy a Mac. Bill Gates is the Devil. You will buy a Mac.

SpaceInc
Dec 10, 2002, 03:28 PM
Originally posted by Catfish_Man
...(.13 micron G4+) DOES exist (according to a Motorola roadmap). It has 512k L2 cache and scales to 1.8GHz. When it'll be out is anyone's guess, but I think it has to be soon. I don't remember clearly, but I think it supports a faster bus. There's also the 7457-RM which has RapidIO, but that's not 'till 2004.

...oh yeah; think about it. Apple has double prosessor macs allready for pro users (who the heck is a pro user anyway: anyone wants doubleG4 at home...) and if You just for fun think what would happen if those G4+-what-ever-mucho-prosessors-with-extraordinary-teraflops would be implemented into a pro mac...think about it: double G4 with 2x1,8 Ghz. Fastest Pentium4 that I know is 3.03 GHz...

Anyways dreams are made for to appeal us. Nice thought though.:rolleyes:

Dr. Distortion
Dec 10, 2002, 03:34 PM
Buying a faster mac than you need now is also a matter of looking into the future... you want it to be functional in a few years too, right?
For example, my G4/500 DP is still very snappy in osX, while it's a mac from the os9 era... Back then I really didn't use the 2nd processor much, but now with osX the mac certainly redeems itself and its price!

-Dr. D.

zimv20
Dec 10, 2002, 03:51 PM
Originally posted by insidedanshead
well its all about the numbers.. I don't care how hard apple pushes the MHz myth.. average Joe blow consumer will look at two machines a pc and mac and be like hey for half the price I can get double the Mhz with the PC.. thats it.. unfortunately that's one of the biggest reasons apple needs to bump up mhz.. I don't really care what chip they do it with they just need to do something.

ok, there's a reason i can latch onto: marketing. and it's cynical, to boot. nice.

i see your point. and it's sad that people look at that clock cycle number so critically (like they even know what it really means). but does the evidence bear that out? isn't apple gaining marketshare right now?

zimv20
Dec 10, 2002, 03:54 PM
Originally posted by Dr. Distortion
my G4/500 DP is still very snappy in osX, while it's a mac from the os9 era... Back then I really didn't use the 2nd processor much, but now with osX the mac certainly redeems itself and its price!


you and i bought the exact same machine, and for the same reason. yes, i'm still happy with it. it does what i need it to, quickly.

in fact, i rarely max out the cpus (i did it once, simultaneously importing some 30k emails into Mail.app and volume smoothing some 3k songs in iTunes).

what does this tell me? the bottleneck is not the cpu, it's some combo of the bus and the HD. imho, that's what apple should be concentrating on.

BenderBot1138
Dec 10, 2002, 04:18 PM
Originally posted by TMJ1974
If Apple keeps with their current introduction "schedule" there is (at least) one more PowerMac to be introduced before the new IBM chip is available. ...

Tim

I B Moron...

:cool:

Catfish_Man
Dec 10, 2002, 06:34 PM
Originally posted by SpaceInc


...oh yeah; think about it. Apple has double prosessor macs allready for pro users (who the heck is a pro user anyway: anyone wants doubleG4 at home...) and if You just for fun think what would happen if those G4+-what-ever-mucho-prosessors-with-extraordinary-teraflops would be implemented into a pro mac...think about it: double G4 with 2x1,8 Ghz. Fastest Pentium4 that I know is 3.03 GHz...

Anyways dreams are made for to appeal us. Nice thought though.:rolleyes:

??? I'm not quite sure what you're saying.

In case you're doubting my info:
http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~ceugene/MPC7457.jpg

SpaceInc
Dec 11, 2002, 04:37 AM
Originally posted by Catfish_Man


??? I'm not quite sure what you're saying.

In case you're doubting my info:
http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~ceugene/MPC7457.jpg

Sorry, my mistake. i was talking about those future 7457-prosessors...not G4s. When You write at 12pm one is not at his best...
;)

Falleron
Dec 11, 2002, 09:59 AM
There is still room for improvement in the G4. We know it can be scalled to 1.8Ghz. The only problem is that Motorola does not seem to the balls to do it (or equipment) + the money.

shadowfax0
Dec 11, 2002, 04:55 PM
I ahve to agree with the folks up above -- I've got a dual 450, and it's snappy, an I use it for Mathematica to a web borswer to video editing. It's perfectly alright for me. But my other point is, IBM says these PPC 970's will be realeased late 2003, and I'm not convinced. If a company has another comapny asking for it's processors (so not 100% confirmed, but most likely) and you know you're going to get a big pay off (and there is a definite demand for them), you manufacture for them first, THEN produce more for other things. So in other words, I think the 2003 release date is going to be when they release them for other things, but that Apple will have them before that.

pgwalsh
Dec 11, 2002, 07:06 PM
Originally posted by shadowfax0
I think the late 2003 release date is going to be when they release them for other things, but that Apple will have them before that.

He he he he he he :D

NativaMac
Dec 12, 2002, 11:32 AM
dual processor macs are no substitute for faster processor macs. you may be faster if you are wizzarding your way through osx, but if you work on real time apps. like music or video, faster processors are a must to follow the developement of more complex software and algorythms. also alot of apps donīt even support dual processors or are unevenly split up on the two processors, and developement for MP mode of software companies is laging behind big time. I am glad I never spent the money to get a dual processor mac. as a computer musician i would have never used both until today and into the future.
Especially now that apple is getting seriously into providing machines for music production (i suppose thatīs why they bought emagic) they need to release fast single processor macs or the competition will get the deals.

my two cents...

oh and here my unsubstancial rumors:

dual 1.333 ghz G4īs in Q1/03 - would that be sad!

Coca-Cola
Dec 12, 2002, 02:38 PM
Apple really really really needs to give us a 970 Preview and begin taking pre-orders. Is there a 970 chip out there? I am sure there must be at least one prototype they could preview. By at least previewing one beta machine, they could say they were the first. Can you imagine the number of Pre-orders? It would be huge. I would get one, I don't need one, can't afford one, but, I would still get one. apple