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MacRumors
Feb 28, 2013, 04:51 PM
http://images.macrumors.com/im/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2013/02/28/apple-seeds-build-12d74-of-os-x-beta-10-8-3-to-developers/)


Apple today seeded build 12D74 (http://9to5mac.com/2013/02/28/apple-seeds-os-x-10-8-3-mountain-lion-build-12d74-to-developers/) of OS X Mountain Lion to developers, marking the eleventh beta iteration of the newest version of Mountain Lion. 10.8.3 was first seeded (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/11/26/apple-seeds-first-beta-of-os-x-10-8-3-to-developers/) to developers in November of 2012.

http://images.macrumors.com/article-new/2013/02/build12d74.png
Build 12D74 comes two weeks after build 12D68 (http://www.macrumors.com/2013/02/14/apple-seeds-build-12d68-of-os-x-beta-10-8-3-to-developers/) and features no listed changes. Registered developers can download the update on Apple's Developer Page (https://developer.apple.com).

This post originally referred to Build 12D74 as the twelfth developer seed of OS X 10.8.3 when it was actually the eleventh seed.

Article Link: Apple Seeds Build 12D74 of OS X Beta 10.8.3 to Developers (http://www.macrumors.com/2013/02/28/apple-seeds-build-12d74-of-os-x-beta-10-8-3-to-developers/)



milo
Feb 28, 2013, 04:52 PM
Yet another "Released tomorrow!" prediction in 3...2...1...

Prof.
Feb 28, 2013, 04:52 PM
Apple to its customers: Trolololololo

sshhoott
Feb 28, 2013, 04:52 PM
Hopefully, this is the last beta. My mac is craving for an update right now!

Hungry&Foolish
Feb 28, 2013, 04:53 PM
Wow Apple is going Loco.

voyagerd
Feb 28, 2013, 04:53 PM
This update is Mo Betta

WhackyNinja
Feb 28, 2013, 04:55 PM
10.8.3 better be a good update if its taking this long.

Prof.
Feb 28, 2013, 04:55 PM
I'm waiting for the official release and our Macs will still have the slow shutdown problems...:rolleyes:

TheGreenBastard
Feb 28, 2013, 04:55 PM
My goodness this is taking a long time. :rolleyes:

Northgrove
Feb 28, 2013, 04:59 PM
I have forgotten what 10.8.3 was even supposed to fix.

Hungry&Foolish
Feb 28, 2013, 05:02 PM
I have forgotten what 10.8.3 was even supposed to fix.

My Pulse rate for starters.:D

epelba01
Feb 28, 2013, 05:02 PM
This taking forever. I can't wait for the official update as I heard it fixes wake on lan problems. Any thoughts how much longer we have to wait for the public release?

lwapps
Feb 28, 2013, 05:05 PM
This taking forever. I can't wait for the official update as I heard it fixes wake on lan problems. Any thoughts how much longer we have to wait for the public release?

There's no telling with Apple!

wassal43
Feb 28, 2013, 05:10 PM
what the hell they are testing for four months :mad:

ConCat
Feb 28, 2013, 05:10 PM
Oh wow. The first release was November 26, and it's almost march.

ghosthaunt11
Feb 28, 2013, 05:11 PM
What?!!! ANOTHER beta? That's exactly what I DID NOT WANT to happen. This has to be the LAST beta before public release. Maybe I could afford to wait one more week, but I CANNOT WAIT two more weeks.

I'm trying to be as patient as I can, but I think that Apple is taking TOO long. They better have a good reason for it, such as bug fixing.

:mad:

olibraves
Feb 28, 2013, 05:15 PM
what the hell they are testing for four months :mad:

I have no idea, it would make some sense if they were listing known issues but they keep coming with "no known issues". If there aren't any issues release it already!

retroneo
Feb 28, 2013, 05:15 PM
With this build:

1. Does it fix the Safari bug demonstrated here: http://www.filldisk.com

2. Does OpenCL now work on HD4000 integrated graphics ?

nfl46
Feb 28, 2013, 05:21 PM
Woah. Lol. That's a lot of betas!

sshhoott
Feb 28, 2013, 05:24 PM
I have forgotten what 10.8.3 was even supposed to fix.

It's suppose to fix the problems that made you forget what 10.8.3 was suppose to fix. :D

ResPublica
Feb 28, 2013, 05:24 PM
What?!!! ANOTHER beta? That's exactly what I DID NOT WANT to happen. This has to be the LAST beta before public release. Maybe I could afford to wait one more week, but I CANNOT WAIT two more weeks.

:mad:
What precisely will happen if it takes them more than two weeks?

John.B
Feb 28, 2013, 05:26 PM
Here's hoping it includes a Fusion Drive-compatible version of Disk Utility.

Rampage Dev
Feb 28, 2013, 05:26 PM
Hopefully this is the GM and we will see a update soon. This should have been released in January and now we should be seeing the Beta of 10.8.4. Apple once again drooped the ball again not fixing key issues in a timely fashion.

Hungry&Foolish
Feb 28, 2013, 05:27 PM
What precisely will happen if it takes them more than two weeks?

Mayan prediction will come true.

daneoni
Feb 28, 2013, 05:48 PM
What?!!! ANOTHER beta? That's exactly what I DID NOT WANT to happen. This has to be the LAST beta before public release. Maybe I could afford to wait one more week, but I CANNOT WAIT two more weeks.

:mad:

I love how you're making declarations like you actually have a choice. What are you gonna do, march into Cupertino and do a stick up

OpDraht
Feb 28, 2013, 06:02 PM
Here's hoping it includes a Fusion Drive-compatible version of Disk Utility.
Perhaps that's one of those remarkable features of 10.9 :D

ghosthaunt11
Feb 28, 2013, 06:16 PM
I love how you're making declarations like you actually have a choice. What are you gonna do, march into Cupertino and do a stick up

Sorry about what I posted! I'm just upset that it has taken more than four months. I'm trying to be as patient as I can.

Hooper
Feb 28, 2013, 06:22 PM
Bad was 10.8.2 that it needs 12 beta's of 10.8.3 ????? My Mac-Mini late 2012 knows...... :-((((

lunaoso
Feb 28, 2013, 06:23 PM
They better have a good reason for it, such as bug fixing.

:mad:

That's kind of the point of betas. They are used for bug fixing. I'm glad it's taking so long because that means it'll fix many of the bugs present in ML.

GIZBUG
Feb 28, 2013, 06:26 PM
Bad was 10.8.2 that it needs 12 beta's of 10.8.3 ????? My Mac-Mini late 2012 knows...... :-((((

Have had 0 issues with 10.8.2 on my Mac Air. Any 0 issues with all these 10.8.3 betas......

mcarling
Feb 28, 2013, 06:26 PM
I'm not experiencing any problems. It seems to me that 10.8.2 is the most stable 10.x.2 release so far.

Senseotech
Feb 28, 2013, 06:27 PM
What?!!! ANOTHER beta? That's exactly what I DID NOT WANT to happen. This has to be the LAST beta before public release. Maybe I could afford to wait one more week, but I CANNOT WAIT two more weeks.

I'm trying to be as patient as I can, but I think that Apple is taking TOO long. They better have a good reason for it, such as bug fixing.

:mad:

Its cute that you think you have any say in the matter or that making demands will do a single thing. :rolleyes:

geircito
Feb 28, 2013, 06:27 PM
Still no Windows 8 drivers.
Downloading windows drivers brings you Windows 7 drivers from june 2011.

RedTomato
Feb 28, 2013, 06:27 PM
I'm hoping this won't wipe out my jailbroken Mac.

/s

w0lf
Feb 28, 2013, 06:27 PM
Anyone notice any changes in this version? I'm still having slow shutdown.

ghosthaunt11
Feb 28, 2013, 06:36 PM
Its cute that you think you have any say in the matter or that making demands will do a single thing. :rolleyes:

Sorry about what I posted! I'm just upset that it has taken more than four months. I'm trying to be as patient as I can.

tevion5
Feb 28, 2013, 06:37 PM
Still no Windows 8 drivers.
Downloading windows drivers brings you Windows 7 drivers from june 2011.

Who needs windows 8?

I think 7 is actually more productive and easier to navigate.

theSuit
Feb 28, 2013, 06:38 PM
I hope they follow through on the major 'graphics' update they want developers to focus on. On my rMBP 15" + 10.8.2, graphics are horrendous. Laggy UI, VERY glitchy Safari rendering and frame rates of ~30fps which are ~100fps in Bootcamp in the same game. (Yes, even after multiple clean installs and smc resets)

Where are the days when we snickered at Windows users for having to wait for SP3 to be using a final product. Here we are.

Also, the ****ing 'scroll bar at the bottom' bug in the finder pisses me off to no end.

Apple, you disappointed me. I trusted you. I don't mind if you take another month, but please, release something that doesn't feel like I'm using an alpha version.

ConsiderPhlebas
Feb 28, 2013, 06:41 PM
Like everyone else I'm only guessing, but maybe the OS X software gurus are taking this long to get every thing off the plate for ML with this last release and turn most of the software team on OS X 10.9.

star-affinity
Feb 28, 2013, 06:56 PM
Apple, you disappointed me. I trusted you. I don't mind if you take another month, but please, release something that doesn't feel like I'm using an alpha version.

Not that it's an excuse, but the graphical glitches seems to be mostly with the Retina Macs. I don't really noticed any issues with the Mid 2012 MacBook Air I had last autumn nor with the MacBook Pro 13" (also mid 2012) that I have now.

I think 10.8.2 is solid overall, but sure hope there's a lot of improvements in 10.8.3! Better graphics drivers for one.

daneoni
Feb 28, 2013, 06:59 PM
Sorry about what I posted! I'm just upset that it has taken more than four months. I'm trying to be as patient as I can.

I know where you're coming from...we all are. You just have to be patient. Remember the longer the wait the less likely there'll be issues with the update. Due to rigorous testing.

stlblufan
Feb 28, 2013, 07:01 PM
With this build:

1. Does it fix the Safari bug demonstrated here: http://www.filldisk.com



No.

komodrone
Feb 28, 2013, 07:09 PM
What?!!! ANOTHER beta? That's exactly what I DID NOT WANT to happen. This has to be the LAST beta before public release. Maybe I could afford to wait one more week, but I CANNOT WAIT two more weeks.

I'm trying to be as patient as I can, but I think that Apple is taking TOO long. They better have a good reason for it, such as bug fixing.

:mad:

WHAT?!! ANOTHER COMMENT ABOUT ANOTHER BETA?
:mad:

Tora Shin
Feb 28, 2013, 07:27 PM
With this build:

1. Does it fix the Safari bug demonstrated here: http://www.filldisk.com

2. Does OpenCL now work on HD4000 integrated graphics ?

That link made my day! XD XD

DaBrain
Feb 28, 2013, 07:27 PM
I'm not experiencing any problems. It seems to me that 10.8.2 is the most stable 10.x.2 release so far.

Wish I could say the same! On my 27 inch all i been getting is wirless issues after coming out sleep mode. It's a real pain in the dupa! After 4 months I sure hope it's fixed. Fingers crossed here!:)

Oh I almost forgot about the mouse cursor that just dissapears at random!

Peace
Feb 28, 2013, 07:38 PM
Wish I could say the same! On my 27 inch all i been getting is wirless issues after coming out sleep mode. It's a real pain in the dupa! After 4 months I sure hope it's fixed. Fingers crossed here!:)

Oh I almost forgot about the mouse cursor that just dissapears at random!

I think you might be referring to the cursor disappearing when it doesn't move then reappearing when you move it.

Is that what happens ?

bernuli
Feb 28, 2013, 07:54 PM
I think you might be referring to the cursor disappearing when it doesn't move then reappearing when you move it.

Is that what happens ?

I used to love that feature! That left with OS 9 right?

Badagri
Feb 28, 2013, 08:33 PM
Like everyone else I'm only guessing, but maybe the OS X software gurus are taking this long to get every thing off the plate for ML with this last release and turn most of the software team on OS X 10.9.

:o

10.7 finished at 10.7.5. Looks like 10.8 could finish with 10.8.3?

Peace
Feb 28, 2013, 08:37 PM
I used to love that feature! That left with OS 9 right?

Have no idea. I just got on my Mac and the cursor thing is gone now. So I'm gonna say the disappearing cursor bug is fixed.

Mr. Retrofire
Feb 28, 2013, 08:56 PM
Like everyone else I'm only guessing, but maybe the OS X software gurus are taking this long to get every thing off the plate for ML with this last release and turn most of the software team on OS X 10.9.
After the release of the 10.9 DP1, Apple needs more engineers to fix bugs in the various DP versions (DP1, DP2, and so on). That means no 10.9 DP1 before 10.8.3.

kensic
Feb 28, 2013, 09:06 PM
Still no Windows 8 drivers.
Downloading windows drivers brings you Windows 7 drivers from june 2011.

how do you know what you're download is windows 7 drivers?

Senseotech
Feb 28, 2013, 09:10 PM
how do you know what you're download is windows 7 drivers?

It warns you before downloading, plus they're very clearly for Win7 once they're downloaded.

kensic
Feb 28, 2013, 09:34 PM
It warns you before downloading, plus they're very clearly for Win7 once they're downloaded.

oh i see, yea i was wondering once windows 8 drivers are released, if you would have the option of download which ever version you need.

thomaskc
Feb 28, 2013, 10:01 PM
I think they will just bundle up the drivers for win7/win8 they are mostly the same anyway, as all win7 drivers (with very few exceptions) run on win8.

And the same the other way, all "win8" drivers is just as much for win7. So your download will not change at all, it will just be slightly updated versions of what ever is there.

Senseotech
Feb 28, 2013, 10:07 PM
I think they will just bundle up the drivers for win7/win8 they are mostly the same anyway, as all win7 drivers (with very few exceptions) run on win8.

And the same the other way, all "win8" drivers is just as much for win7. So your download will not change at all, it will just be slightly updated versions of what ever is there.

The biggest roadblock to full win8 compatibility right now is the boot camp control panel; in 8 it won't run under an administrator user, meaning you can't easily change trackpad and keyboard settings, and brightness (both display and keyboard) controls as well as startup disk controls don't work at all.

ultraspiracle
Feb 28, 2013, 10:30 PM
OK, have any of you SSD or Retina guys noticed the reboot times for this release and whether it's an improvement?

jonnysods
Feb 28, 2013, 10:34 PM
If its taken this long I hope that it's smokin patch that fixes a lot of issues!

w0lf
Feb 28, 2013, 10:55 PM
The biggest roadblock to full win8 compatibility right now is the boot camp control panel; in 8 it won't run under an administrator user, meaning you can't easily change trackpad and keyboard settings.

That sounds like a problem with your install. Try removing and re-installing the boot camp control panel. The control panel works just fine on my computer running as administrator.

Brightness (both display and keyboard) controls

Dunno is this is a universal fix for all apple hardware but I had this problem and you can fix it.

https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/518208/geforce-mobile-gpus/brightness-controls-not-working/4

startup disk controls don't work at all.

Not sure about this one.

OK, have any of you SSD or Retina guys noticed the reboot times for this release and whether it's an improvement?

Pretty sure I already posted this but I'm still having slow shutdown with a SSD.

bedifferent
Feb 28, 2013, 11:45 PM
Even I have to admit, this is ridiculous. How does Apple expect to move OS X to an annual release cycle when 10.x.x updates take this long to iron out?

Apple, return to the "old school" method, release betas (and not DP's) to developers as fresh ISO's ~ every 2 weeks (a clean install ensures better analysis of any bugs that may present themselves as opposed to installing releases on top of older ones). If OS X moves to an annual 10.X release cycle as announced, based on how Craig Federighi is handling software engineering since Serlet's departure before Lion, OS X may be a hot mess.

sshhoott
Feb 28, 2013, 11:52 PM
I love how you're making declarations like you actually have a choice. What are you gonna do, march into Cupertino and do a stick up

You are right, he doesn't have a choice. He's just expressing anger and he has every right to do so because he is the one suffering from all the problems with his mac that aren't suppose to be there in the first place.

Anyways, all we can do is wait and it's extremely likely that we'll see this update in the next two weeks.

kensic
Feb 28, 2013, 11:55 PM
here goes another week.

cmChimera
Mar 1, 2013, 01:20 AM
Even I have to admit, this is ridiculous. How does Apple expect to move OS X to an annual release cycle when 10.x.x updates take this long to iron out?

Apple, return to the "old school" method, release betas (and not DP's) to developers as fresh ISO's ~ every 2 weeks (a clean install ensures better analysis of any bugs that may present themselves as opposed to installing releases on top of older ones). If OS X moves to an annual 10.X release cycle as announced, based on how Craig Federighi is handling software engineering since Serlet's departure before Lion, OS X may be a hot mess.

You want stable software but don't like it when Apple takes the time needed to create stable software?

ghosthaunt11
Mar 1, 2013, 01:57 AM
You are right, he doesn't have a choice. He's just expressing anger and he has every right to do so because he is the one suffering from all the problems with his mac that aren't suppose to be there in the first place.

Anyways, all we can do is wait and it's extremely likely that we'll see this update in the next two weeks.

You are absolutely right, sshhoott. Again, sorry about what I posted! I've been trying to be as patient as I can. At least my Mac is still completely usable. I think I've noticed a slight speed improvement over Lion and I love the Facebook integration, which are a couple of reasons why I think it was worth paying $20 to upgrade, despite the bugs. I also love the fact that it is now easy to use Time Machine to back up to multiple hard drives.

Lately, OS X upgrades have been incredibly cheap compared to Windows, even though Macs are generally a lot more expensive and, of course, better than PCs (I think that Apple overprices Macs, by the way). Plus, if you stay up-to-date with the lastest version of the OS that your computer can run, its compatibility with new software will last longer. In fact, because there are a lot of people who still use Snow Leopard, I think that new software will support Mountain Lion for a long, long time.

Also, if you do keep upgrading, then unless your computer will not support the next version of the OS, there is a guarantee that you will be in its upgrade path. But still, I do want the critical bugs, including the "file" bug and the wallpaper resetting issue, to be fixed. Also, security improvements usually come with a new update. However, on my Mac, the wallpaper has only been reset when connecting the Mac to an external monitor.

Nightkrawler
Mar 1, 2013, 01:58 AM
The biggest roadblock to full win8 compatibility right now is the boot camp control panel; in 8 it won't run under an administrator user, meaning you can't easily change trackpad and keyboard settings, and brightness (both display and keyboard) controls as well as startup disk controls don't work at all.

right click -> new -> new shortcut
runas /trustlevel:0x20000 "C:/Windows/System32/AppleControlPanel.exe"
Start it with admin rights. This even works with the AHCI mod where the bootcamp control panel also won't open normally.

thomaskc
Mar 1, 2013, 02:02 AM
The biggest roadblock to full win8 compatibility right now is the boot camp control panel; in 8 it won't run under an administrator user, meaning you can't easily change trackpad and keyboard settings, and brightness (both display and keyboard) controls as well as startup disk controls don't work at all.

Not entirely true, it does run, just not in an easy fashion.

http://blogs.microsoft.co.il/blogs/sasha/archive/2012/08/16/running-the-boot-camp-control-panel-applet-from-windows-8-on-macbook-pro.aspx

and

http://kyzog.wordpress.com/2012/11/28/fixing-boot-camp-control-panel-and-windows-8/

Is 2 ways you can make it run, but like I said not "easy". But it does work if you are willing to make it work.

But other than that I think people expect WAYY too much of this osx 10.8.3 update. I have installed and been using all beta updates since beta 8 I think and I have yet to see any real difference in both responsiveness or problem fixing. That said I do not have some of the problems that some people have. Also if people are stressing that badly to get the updates that it might hold, why not just install the betas and see if its fixed? I mean its not that hard to google and download.... anyway good luck guys!

JGRE
Mar 1, 2013, 02:26 AM
This is ridicules, 3 months for a fix pack......or Is Apple going o surprise us with a total new OSX. As this will not be the case, why didn't the break up the fix in smaller releases instead of us having to wait for months 'enjoying all the bugs'.

Apple COME ON!!!!! :mad::mad::mad:

HFXIfan
Mar 1, 2013, 03:12 AM
Fools... did you HONESTLY think apple devoted an entire team to a mid cycle release? ha, they are not spending four months perfecting ML... All they care about is getting another $19.95-$29.95 in July.

tdtran1025
Mar 1, 2013, 03:55 AM
Graphics drivers and Airplay mostly.

tonydickinson
Mar 1, 2013, 05:17 AM
Yet another "Released tomorrow!" prediction in 3...2...1...

Well don't hold your breath - People appear to forget that OSX is now second fiddle to IOS and with the problems they are continually having to address with that is eating their resources, and Mackers and Hackers have to wait.

xlii
Mar 1, 2013, 07:01 AM
what the hell they are testing for four months :mad:

Polishing the Apple?

Krazy Bill
Mar 1, 2013, 08:02 AM
You want stable software but don't like it when Apple takes the time needed to create stable software?What makes you think they are willfully taking their time just to achieve some magically gaol of never-before-acheived stability? Everybody assumes this but there is no proof to this end.

Nobody knows why 10.8.3. is taking so long or why the betas keep coming in short bursts. It sounds like there are problems we aren't aware of... which isn't good. Personally, I think the longer list of bugs they squash over time only introduces new ones.

Mike MA
Mar 1, 2013, 08:30 AM
Is their a way to identify this one to be the GM?

ResPublica
Mar 1, 2013, 08:36 AM
Sorry about what I posted! I'm just upset that it has taken more than four months. I'm trying to be as patient as I can.
Yeah they are taking a lot of time. 10.8.2 was released in september! But since I can still remember Lion and the many problems that had for months (I could no longer access the WIFI of my university!), I'm quite happy with ML as it is.

cmChimera
Mar 1, 2013, 09:06 AM
What makes you think they are willfully taking their time just to achieve some magically gaol of never-before-acheived stability? Everybody assumes this but there is no proof to this end.

Nobody knows why 10.8.3. is taking so long or why the betas keep coming in short bursts. It sounds like there are problems we aren't aware of... which isn't good. Personally, I think the longer list of bugs they squash over time only introduces new ones.

Are you suggesting that they are taking their time just to do it? I'm pretty positive my theory seems more plausible.


That said, my wallpapers still reset after reboot.

milo
Mar 1, 2013, 09:09 AM
Is their a way to identify this one to be the GM?

No. Nobody will know that until a version shows up in the general public's Software Update.

szw-mapple fan
Mar 1, 2013, 09:21 AM
what the hell they are testing for four months :mad:

i hope its osx 10.9

peejack
Mar 1, 2013, 10:04 AM
Nice to see they are working hard on this but for the love of god please release a final build.

My UI lag plus numerous other issues need fixing :)

lcmazza
Mar 1, 2013, 10:06 AM
OK, have any of you SSD or Retina guys noticed the reboot times for this release and whether it's an improvement?

Boot times have improved for me. Also, general stability seems more robust.
In thesis I lost compatibility with CUDA acceleration, but it still works. NVIDIA needs to update CUDA drivers.

Shutdown times seem the same: not great, but not bad either. ;)

Badagri
Mar 1, 2013, 10:27 AM
Shutdown times seem the same: not great, but not bad either. ;)

Did anyone else chuckle?

Krazy Bill
Mar 1, 2013, 10:45 AM
Are you suggesting that they are taking their time just to do it?Not at all. I suspect it's a problem due to leadership without a plan or some lofty and unattainable goal to release THE BIG update to end all updates.

Also, Craig Federighi is now charged with both iOS and OSX, and he's most likely spread a little thin. (And under the microscope).

That said, my wallpapers still reset after reboot.Were it up to me, these kinds of issues would be relegated to the 10.8.4 pile of crap nobody cares about. That said, these kind of useless "eye-candy" issues will probably move to the top of the list since OSX is now all about flash, glitter and nauseating animations that serve no purpose.

Badagri
Mar 1, 2013, 11:52 AM
That said, these kind of useless "eye-candy" issues will probably move to the top of the list since OSX is now all about flash, glitter and nauseating animations that serve no purpose.

Yet this forum and like many others will praise 10.9 like the messiah.

lcmazza
Mar 1, 2013, 12:03 PM
Did anyone else chuckle?

Buy yourself a SSD or Retina Macbook Pro, then you can chuckle for the good side.:rolleyes:

milo
Mar 1, 2013, 12:21 PM
Yet this forum and like many others will praise 10.9 like the messiah.

You really think so? The 10.7 release was met with widespread hate. 10.8 got a much better response, but the gist of it was "it sucks way less than 10.7".

10.9 could go either way, depends on how good the actual release is.

Sky Blue
Mar 1, 2013, 12:38 PM
Yet this forum and like many others will praise 10.9 like the messiah.

Yeah, cause nobody cries about "iOSification" and clings to an out dated OS out of spite.

Risco
Mar 1, 2013, 12:44 PM
Were it up to me, these kinds of issues would be relegated to the 10.8.4 pile of crap nobody cares about. That said, these kind of useless "eye-candy" issues will probably move to the top of the list since OSX is now all about flash, glitter and nauseating animations that serve no purpose.

Luckily it is not up to you.

SeattleMoose
Mar 1, 2013, 02:34 PM
Would be pretty sad after all these beta releases, if the only "major change" is "better social media integration". The howling on these boards would be off the charts. :p

cmChimera
Mar 1, 2013, 03:06 PM
Not at all. I suspect it's a problem due to leadership without a plan or some lofty and unattainable goal to release THE BIG update to end all updates.

Also, Craig Federighi is now charged with both iOS and OSX, and he's most likely spread a little thin. (And under the microscope). I don't think that makes any sense. I don't see how having multiple betas of a point update indicates a problem with leadership. They're simply ironing out a release. And Federighi isn't a one man team. There is likely adequate staff to release software.

Were it up to me, these kinds of issues would be relegated to the 10.8.4 pile of crap nobody cares about. That said, these kind of useless "eye-candy" issues will probably move to the top of the list since OSX is now all about flash, glitter and nauseating animations that serve no purpose. I don't think this makes any sense either. It's a bug that could be fixed so they fix it. I see no reason to "wait" to fix it. I also don't buy the whole "OS X now about flash" thing either but that's a different debate.

newfoundglory
Mar 1, 2013, 03:38 PM
Apple probably started work on 10.8.4 a long time ago. Maybe we wont see 10.9 until late Q3/early Q4. There is no way we'll see a new OS released in the next 3 months

Peace
Mar 1, 2013, 03:44 PM
Apple probably started work on 10.8.4 a long time ago. Maybe we wont see 10.9 until late Q3/early Q4. There is no way we'll see a new OS released in the next 3 months

My guess ?

10.8.3 Wednesday March 6th released to the public.

10.9 Developer Preview Thursday March 7th with the GM build going out at WWDC 2013

newfoundglory
Mar 1, 2013, 04:05 PM
Possible... but it will be really buggy....

Shirke
Mar 1, 2013, 04:12 PM
We may see next build 12D80,That's my guess

Rampage Dev
Mar 1, 2013, 04:26 PM
You really think so? The 10.7 release was met with widespread hate. 10.8 got a much better response, but the gist of it was "it sucks way less than 10.7".

10.9 could go either way, depends on how good the actual release is.

The hate came from the removal of Rosetta. If you take those users out of the equation then the hatred would be almost gone. Just a thought.

Badagri
Mar 1, 2013, 04:39 PM
Buy yourself a SSD or Retina Macbook Pro, then you can chuckle for the good side.:rolleyes:

Regardless of rolling eyes, the SSD did solve one crucial problem I was having on the mechanical. The memory running away with things and lots of page outs I used to get stopped once I switched to an SSD. For some reason on the mechanical memory was never releasing itself. Even after closing every app and letting the system idle for hours.

I left browsers open and came back in 30 minutes to an hour and it filled all my memory. If I do that now on the SSD the memory is stationary. There were so many things that caused the memory to run away no matter what I was doing, ending with 16GB page outs.

This was one of my biggest gripes. So far for a week now I've seen 0 page outs.

You really think so? The 10.7 release was met with widespread hate. 10.8 got a much better response, but the gist of it was "it sucks way less than 10.7".

10.9 could go either way, depends on how good the actual release is.

It's strange that 10.7 was really good to me. 10.8 is the most problems I've had, or at least after 10.8.1 and 2. I don't mean a lot but it's been more than previous releases. Though I do recall 10.7 having a somewhat poor performing UI to a degree while working in spaces.


Yeah, cause nobody cries about "iOSification" and clings to an out dated OS out of spite.

Sometimes I can understand now. The obsession with social media has become madness now.

ghosthaunt11
Mar 1, 2013, 05:19 PM
My guess ?

10.8.3 Wednesday March 6th released to the public.

10.9 Developer Preview Thursday March 7th with the GM build going out at WWDC 2013

Hopefully.

----------

We may see next build 12D80,That's my guess

Hopefully not.

bedifferent
Mar 1, 2013, 07:57 PM
You want stable software but don't like it when Apple takes the time needed to create stable software?

It was more stable when Serlet was running the show. Your analogy lacks logic, like Apple speeding up major OS X releases.

Don't think different, just, think ;)

kensic
Mar 1, 2013, 08:09 PM
should i just install windows 8...then install the windows 8 drivers once OSX gets released.

grrr i hate waitinggggg

w0lf
Mar 1, 2013, 09:27 PM
should i just install windows 8...then install the windows 8 drivers once OSX gets released.

Yes.

I've been running Windows 8 since it was in beta on my Macbook Pro, it was a little rough at first but at this point everything works smoothly, just a few nit picky things not working like Volume/Brightness overlays showing up when I press the keyboard buttons.

freedevil
Mar 1, 2013, 10:34 PM
I really don't notice any change after jumping to 10.8.3. Imac 2011.

w0lf
Mar 1, 2013, 11:05 PM
I really don't notice any change after jumping to 10.8.3. Imac 2011.

The focus of 10.8.3 is bug fixes, there isn't really anything new to notice unless you've been having problems with 10.8.2 already and even then some issues haven't been fixed. I've been using 10.8.3 since the first beta and it pretty much feels exactly the same.

I'm just hoping that a 10.9 beta comes out soon, I'm interested in seeing what kind of things will be incorporated into the next Cat release.

Mike MA
Mar 2, 2013, 04:59 AM
I know where you're coming from...we all are. You just have to be patient. Remember the longer the wait the less likely there'll be issues with the update. Due to rigorous testing.

It just seems as there was some directive from the Apple board or something likewise that a lot of things should be sorted out this time.

You have to go far back to the past to find such a high build number, especially under consideration of the shortened life cycles since Lion.

szw-mapple fan
Mar 2, 2013, 05:38 AM
Image (http://www.macrumors.com/2013/02/28/apple-seeds-build-12d74-of-os-x-beta-10-8-3-to-developers/)


Apple today seeded build 12D74 (http://9to5mac.com/2013/02/28/apple-seeds-os-x-10-8-3-mountain-lion-build-12d74-to-developers/) of OS X Mountain Lion to developers, marking the twelfth beta iteration of the newest version of Mountain Lion. 10.8.3 was first seeded (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/11/26/apple-seeds-first-beta-of-os-x-10-8-3-to-developers/) to developers in November of 2012.

Image (http://cdn.macrumors.com/article-new/2013/02/build12d74.png)
Build 12D74 comes two weeks after build 12D68 (http://www.macrumors.com/2013/02/14/apple-seeds-build-12d68-of-os-x-beta-10-8-3-to-developers/) and features no listed changes. Registered developers can download the update on Apple's Developer Page (https://developer.apple.com).

Article Link: Apple Seeds Build 12D74 of OS X Beta 10.8.3 to Developers (http://www.macrumors.com/2013/02/28/apple-seeds-build-12d74-of-os-x-beta-10-8-3-to-developers/)


I hope this fixes the dictation bug. I haven't been able to use it ever since 10.8.2

----------

That said, these kind of useless "eye-candy" issues will probably move to the top of the list since OSX is now all about flash, glitter and nauseating animations that serve no purpose.

Oh that flash. I thought for a moment it might be Adobe flash. silly me.

iBug2
Mar 2, 2013, 06:04 AM
It was more stable when Serlet was running the show. Your analogy lacks logic, like Apple speeding up major OS X releases.

Don't think different, just, think ;)

Really? OS 10.0 was more stable than Lion? It's funny that someone accusing the other party of not thinking can actually claim that one man can make a difference between a stable and a non-stable OS. The direction the OS goes is another story, but stability is up to the hundreds of engineers, not Serlet or Craig.

I haven't had a single issue with Lion or Mountain Lion stability wise on any of my macs. Then again I didn't have any stability issues with OS X since 10.3.

cmChimera
Mar 2, 2013, 09:42 AM
It was more stable when Serlet was running the show. Your analogy lacks logic, like Apple speeding up major OS X releases.

Don't think different, just, think ;)
That's not an analogy but I'll ignore that part or your post. Your logic is contradictory. You don't want fast releases, but are complaining about a long beta period.

Rampage Dev
Mar 2, 2013, 01:49 PM
Really? OS 10.0 was more stable than Lion? It's funny that someone accusing the other party of not thinking can actually claim that one man can make a difference between a stable and a non-stable OS. The direction the OS goes is another story, but stability is up to the hundreds of engineers, not Serlet or Craig.

I haven't had a single issue with Lion or Mountain Lion stability wise on any of my macs. Then again I didn't have any stability issues with OS X since 10.3.

I think that people are referring how he ran the department perhaps or that we are seeing the effects of post Jobs in the company. Either way I have not see any of the issues people report on my system or RMBP other then the long shutdown times. But who really cares about boot and shutdown times? How often do you really need to do these things?

"It took longer the 5 seconds to boot and more the 5 seconds to shutdown... it took 15 seconds to boot and 30 to shutdown"-anonymous quote

Who cares? Really? I rather have issues in the OS addressed and never have this issue fixed.

bedifferent
Mar 2, 2013, 02:52 PM
That's not an analogy but I'll ignore that part or your post. Your logic is contradictory. You don't want fast releases, but are complaining about a long beta period.

I never complained, Ms Cleo. I simply stated my disbelief that Apple is having difficulty with a 10.x.x release and yet wants to speed up their OS X releases. Reading comprehension goes a long way. ;)

Peace
Mar 2, 2013, 02:54 PM
I never complained, Ms Cleo. I simply stated my disbelief that Apple is having difficulty with a 10.x.x release and yet wants to speed up their OS X releases. Reading comprehension goes a long way. ;)

Why do you say they are having difficulty ?

bedifferent
Mar 2, 2013, 03:01 PM
Why do you say they are having difficulty ?

Reading the OS X Developer forums, many are still experiencing WiFi issues on systems with 10.5/6 also installed without WiFi instability. There have also been reports/bugs - still recognized and open - regarding longer shut down times and graphics on rMBP's they cannot seem to isolate and fully repair. When a HDD MBP beats a SSD rMBP in shut down times and graphics rendering, of which the engineers and developers cannot diagnose to properly correct, it's an issue. How many .3 beta's have we had? This goes back a long time.

....and yet engineers are stretched thin working on 10.9. It's mind boggling.

Peace
Mar 2, 2013, 03:17 PM
I never complained, Ms Cleo. I simply stated my disbelief that Apple is having difficulty with a 10.x.x release and yet wants to speed up their OS X releases. Reading comprehension goes a long way. ;)

Reading the OS X Developer forums, many are still experiencing WiFi issues on systems with 10.5/6 also installed without WiFi instability. There have also been reports/bugs - still recognized and open - regarding longer shut down times and graphics on rMBP's they cannot seem to isolate and fully repair. When a HDD MBP beats a SSD rMBP in shut down times and graphics rendering, of which the engineers and developers cannot diagnose to properly correct, it's an issue. How many .3 beta's have we had? This goes back a long time.

....and yet engineers are stretched thin working on 10.9. It's mind boggling.

I just looked over the dev discussions and I think you might be exaggerating a bit.

how many open bugs do you have ?

cmChimera
Mar 2, 2013, 04:17 PM
I never complained, Ms Cleo. I simply stated my disbelief that Apple is having difficulty with a 10.x.x release and yet wants to speed up their OS X releases. Reading comprehension goes a long way. ;) I don't read your posts in a vacuum, you've been very vocal in complaining about OS X after Snow Leopard in other threads. Considering that there isn't any real solid evidence that Apple is actually having difficulty with the release, your posts have very little merit to them.




Edit: Wallpaper issue seems to have fixed itself. Not sure how.

Risco
Mar 2, 2013, 04:42 PM
Reading the OS X Developer forums, many are still experiencing WiFi issues on systems with 10.5/6 also installed without WiFi instability. There have also been reports/bugs - still recognized and open - regarding longer shut down times and graphics on rMBP's they cannot seem to isolate and fully repair. When a HDD MBP beats a SSD rMBP in shut down times and graphics rendering, of which the engineers and developers cannot diagnose to properly correct, it's an issue. How many .3 beta's have we had? This goes back a long time.

....and yet engineers are stretched thin working on 10.9. It's mind boggling.

I think they should just concentrate on getting 10.9 correct out of the box instead of needing a years worth of patches to make it stable.

iBug2
Mar 3, 2013, 03:36 AM
Reading the OS X Developer forums, many are still experiencing WiFi issues on systems with 10.5/6 also installed without WiFi instability. There have also been reports/bugs - still recognized and open - regarding longer shut down times and graphics on rMBP's they cannot seem to isolate and fully repair. When a HDD MBP beats a SSD rMBP in shut down times and graphics rendering, of which the engineers and developers cannot diagnose to properly correct, it's an issue. How many .3 beta's have we had? This goes back a long time.

....and yet engineers are stretched thin working on 10.9. It's mind boggling.

An HDD MBP will obviously beat an SSD rMBP in graphics rendering since it's rendering almost 4 times less many pixels with the same GPU. So that's not an issue at all. If you play a game in a regular and retina MBP, the gaming performance is the same as long as you play it at the same resolution. So there are no graphics related bugs in retina MBP's. And SSD/HDD have no effect on GPU performance. About slow shutdown times, I think it's effecting all macs, not just SSD ones, and that's not really an issue that needs fixing immediately. There are a lot more important things before we come to that.

About the number of open tickets, for every release of OS X, there are thousands of open bug tickets at all times. And that is quite normal.

Risco
Mar 3, 2013, 06:35 AM
An HDD MBP will obviously beat an SSD rMBP in graphics rendering since it's rendering almost 4 times less many pixels with the same GPU. So that's not an issue at all. If you play a game in a regular and retina MBP, the gaming performance is the same as long as you play it at the same resolution. So there are no graphics related bugs in retina MBP's. And SSD/HDD have no effect on GPU performance. About slow shutdown times, I think it's effecting all macs, not just SSD ones, and that's not really an issue that needs fixing immediately. There are a lot more important things before we come to that.

About the number of open tickets, for every release of OS X, there are thousands of open bug tickets at all times. And that is quite normal.

So you are saying the number of bugs is acceptable? I also disagree about slow shutdown times not needing to be fixed. They broke it with 10.8.2 and it is clearly to do with the social integration and notification centre update and it should be patched and not pushed to the back of the queue.

kensic
Mar 3, 2013, 02:55 PM
will you guys be doing an upgrade or fresh install of 10.8.3?

bedifferent
Mar 3, 2013, 03:26 PM
An HDD MBP will obviously beat an SSD rMBP in graphics rendering since it's rendering almost 4 times less many pixels with the same GPU. So that's not an issue at all. If you play a game in a regular and retina MBP, the gaming performance is the same as long as you play it at the same resolution. So there are no graphics related bugs in retina MBP's. And SSD/HDD have no effect on GPU performance. About slow shutdown times, I think it's effecting all macs, not just SSD ones, and that's not really an issue that needs fixing immediately. There are a lot more important things before we come to that.

About the number of open tickets, for every release of OS X, there are thousands of open bug tickets at all times. And that is quite normal.

Good points about the graphics. My only contention is (in theory) a retina product should not have been released with so much [seemingly] left to "flesh out". Meaning, the numerous hardware and software issues that many have been experiencing should not have happened to the extent it has for such a premium product that Apple seems to have been pushing as "the next best thing". A MacBook Pro should not out-perform a retina system, if it does than there is an underlying issue. Certainly a rMBP has more work in graphics rendering, however paying a higher premium for slower graphics with a myriad of glitches in Safari and over core app's should not be outweighed by the factor that it is a "retina" display. Work out the kinks, then release the product. Hopefully the next releases will be much more stable and consistent (a byproduct of first batch systems perhaps). What about OpenGL Core 4.0 support? It's god awful, something OS X has seemed to be suffering from for a while now. Windows systems blow even the most supped up Mac's out of the water. It's shameful. Releasing a "retina" display with shoddy graphics cards, resulting in over heating systems, shutdowns, graphic glitches. It's as though Apple focused more on the display and less on proper hardware support to drive it.

As for tickets, I have experienced WiFi issues on my current gen 12-Core Mac Pro, 2012 MacBook Air and 2011 iMac. All systems have clean installs of 10.6.8, 10.8.2 and 10.8.3. Snow Leopard experiences no WiFi connectivity issues (dropping, spikes, inconsistent signals, etc). All things remaining equal, 10.8.x has definitely suffered from WiFi instability, running the latest .3 update doesn't seem to be helping. I've run this on guest accounts, clean installs using the buried .dmg on a USB drive, etc. Many user forums are frustrated by this issue. Personally, I found the networking protocols (I'm talking about you SAMBA) that Apple utilized in 10.7+ to be a huge hassle, especially for server related instances. I'm glad that finally got worked out, perhaps Apple jumped the gun in updating certain aspects, breaking compatibility, who knows. Safari has certainly improved, caching issues with websites not updated were a major PITA having to reload any time you navigate.

One aspect I'm on the fence about concerns the social networking features throughout 10.7-8 which seemed to be a major focus for OS X software engineers. I personally don't need them, but I've read numerous debates regarding the "bloatware" of said features. Some state it doesn't effect system performance if they are not configured/utilized, and others have shown proof that even unused they eat up background resources (which is rather perplexing).

10.7's Memory management was atrocious, 10.8 has been slightly better, however they fall well behind 10.6 in terms of overall functionality, speed, and stability. A system in 10.6.8 with half the RAM generally runs faster than a 10.7-8 system with double the RAM (and I'm not including the rMBP's in this remark). Why? What is the need for so much memory in a base system? I installed 10.8 on a friends 2010 MacBook Pro with 4GB's of RAM (from 10.6). It's so slow, simply using Mail, Safari, iTunes and smaller non-core app's is god awful. She went back to 10.6.8 and it's a breath of fresh air. I really wish Apple released a .9 update for Snow Leopard with iCloud integration, it wouldn't have taken much engineering wise and those who refuse to migrate would be able to purchase and use iDevices with their iCloud accounts. I spent about a month reading online forums on how to configure iCal, Mail and Contacts with iCloud in 10.6.8, Contacts being the bugger. Finally got it working perfectly, although it still doesn't have the full iCloud compatibility offered in 10.7+. When 10.7 was released, 10.6 systems were hardly legacy, yet Apple refused to simply update key features in order to push out new Mac's and 10.7 (which was the first time Apple departed from ISO ~ bi-weekly beta testing for an average 4 DP's before GM, and while OS X 10 was most definitely a terrible release, 10.7 was nipping at its heels).

It seems 10.8.3 is making its way as the longest and most released OS X 10.x.x release to date. Simply stating that there are "no known issues" doesn't mean it's issue free, there are plenty of open bugs that I have received follow-up's directly from Apple engineers requesting screen caps, movies, and detailed information. If Apple cannot get 10.8.3 ironed out, how is moving to 10.9 this year making any sense? You cannot build upon a core OS that needs work. Certainly 10.9 may be a complete rewrite, who knows at this point, but if it is anything akin to 10.7 and 10.8, I fear it may be a bugged disappointment.

bedifferent
Mar 3, 2013, 03:41 PM
I don't read your posts in a vacuum, you've been very vocal in complaining about OS X after Snow Leopard in other threads. Considering that there isn't any real solid evidence that Apple is actually having difficulty with the release, your posts have very little merit to them.




Edit: Wallpaper issue seems to have fixed itself. Not sure how.

I've been very vocal? Ok. I have barely been posting on MacRumors as of late, however I am not the only individual who has been vocal regarding Serlet's departure from Apple as VP in Software Engineering, leaving Craig Federighi running 10.7/8 with mixed results. If you care not to read my comments, don't, this is an open forum. I read yours with an open mind, and take all opinions into consideration. I do not engage or provoke others unless first provoked, and in most cases I simply ignore them. My remarks (when appropriate) regarding 10.6 versus 10.7/8 have actually received much positive feedback as many agree, and they are constructive criticisms while praising certain aspects I do like in 10.7/8. It is through this that many have expressed their frustrations while receiving helpful tips from others on how to improve their workflow(s) in such a divisive situation for so many.

Dismissing those who take issue as having "little merit" is your opinion, however it doesn't justify rudely dismissing others as you have done so skillfully. Instead, engage someone with an open mind, don't be so defensive, and don't push others' buttons, it serves no good other than to unjustly demean others who are here for the same reason as everyone else - our love of Apple products. It's the blind followers who refuse to acknowledge that Apple can do no wrong that will lead to a company's demise. There should be checks and balances, proper civil discourse, and assisting development as much as we can in order to improve the products we have used for years and depend on for our livelihood.

I respect your opinion(s), but please do not try to insult me by over-dramatizing my remarks and dismissing them as having little merit. It's unnecessary. If you cannot be an adult about it, either move on without commenting or PM the individual. Otherwise, you seem to wish to publicly discredit someone for having a difference of opinion. That speaks more of you than the individuals who are trying to expand their knowledge and understanding while hopefully helping others without feeling debased by those who wish to bully them into silence. That is not what an online forum is meant to accomplish. :)

swissmann
Mar 3, 2013, 04:14 PM
will you guys be doing an upgrade or fresh install of 10.8.3?

I'll be doing a fresh install as I migrate from 10.7.5 which is what I'm on right now.

cjmillsnun
Mar 3, 2013, 04:56 PM
What?!!! ANOTHER beta? That's exactly what I DID NOT WANT to happen. This has to be the LAST beta before public release. Maybe I could afford to wait one more week, but I CANNOT WAIT two more weeks.

I'm trying to be as patient as I can, but I think that Apple is taking TOO long. They better have a good reason for it, such as bug fixing.

:mad:

Ummm that's the idea of point releases... And quit moaning about things taking too long. Either they're rushed and they're buggy, or you take time and they are significantly less buggy.

Mountain Lion is perfectly usable as it is.

----------

The hate came from the removal of Rosetta. If you take those users out of the equation then the hatred would be almost gone. Just a thought.

No the hate came partly from the removal of Rosetta but mainly because Lion sucked arse..

Milltek
Mar 3, 2013, 05:20 PM
Hi,
I've followed this and the other 'beta' threads with interest because I (a few months ago) had to upgrade the memory in my iMac (mid-2010) to 16 Gb so as to try and avoid the ridiculous thrashing the drive was doing every time it was woken up. Now, despite having only a few apps (Mail, Safari, Chrome, Contacts, Messenger, Reminders and Notes) open it can still consume up to 10Gb. I've also experienced the vanishing cursor, the elusive wi-fi signal and the dysfunctional Time Machine issues.

Having said all that, I am holding on to hope for OS X. I would like to think that the IOS Maps 'disease' that had spread to OS X is being addressed. Hopefully, after the Forstall episode, Tim Cook has drawn a line in the sand.

Apple has slowly been building widespread acceptance for the desktop and laptop markets. They really can't afford, at this stage to start looking like the second coming of Microsoft. When I initially got the iMac, I was amazed. Everything pretty much worked as advertised. It even shut down uber-fast.

Now on the odd occasion that I have to shut it down I frequently have to wait up to five minutes and then 'pull the plug'. Otherwise it just sits there with a grey screen. This is not an issue for me, just a worry that the drive might be compromised if there are incomplete writes. (Running 10.8.2 by the way)

So my hope is that Apple management is turning the entire software ship around.

ghosthaunt11
Mar 4, 2013, 01:08 AM
Ummm that's the idea of point releases... And quit moaning about things taking too long. Either they're rushed and they're buggy, or you take time and they are significantly less buggy.

Mountain Lion is perfectly usable as it is.

Sorry about what I posted! I'm trying to be as patient as I can. I apologized for it earlier in the thread, but I guess you did not see those apologies. Those apologies are on pages 2 & 3.

ScottishCaptain
Mar 4, 2013, 05:50 AM
Mountain Lion is perfectly usable as it is.

No, it's not.

Logic Pro is broken under 10.8.2. There is a bug in Core Audio that causes the entire Logic UI to hang for seconds on end, making the entire rig unusable for any serious work.

This is one of the things that has been listed as being "fixed" in the 10.8.3 notes. I know of several people who had to revert to 10.6, others who flat out returned their machines, and one shop that abandoned Logic entirely due to the instability in the OS and the insane delay in 10.8.3 (or any other applicable bug fix) being released.

Frankly, I'm tired of waiting- not for 10.8.3 or any subsequent release, but for Apple to get their **** back together and start solidifying what they have rather then "innovating" half-baked features into the OS that nobody wants or needs. It would be nice to know that the future of my platform could be counted on for once.

-SC

JGRE
Mar 4, 2013, 06:10 AM
Oh wow. The first release was November 26, and it's almost march.

Yup, now it is March and the damn update has still not landed :mad:

----------

Ummm that's the idea of point releases... And quit moaning about things taking too long. Either they're rushed and they're buggy, or you take time and they are significantly less buggy.

Perhaps they you push forward updates immediately (on the run) instead of point releases which depend on when Apple thinks they have gathered enough points to be released. It is almost 4 months, come on!

Now some people have to wait for months while that part of the update they have been waiting for was already finalized in November......this sucks.

peejack
Mar 4, 2013, 06:57 AM
Mountain Lion is perfectly usable as it is.


I beg to differ.

iBug2
Mar 4, 2013, 07:08 AM
So you are saying the number of bugs is acceptable?

Of course. Even for a single application like Photoshop or Final Cut, there are hundreds of bug tickets open at all times. So imagine how many bugs can one find for an entire operating system. Thousands is the number. And one can never fix all of them, for any OS out there. There will always be many bugs for any software complicated enough. The important thing is to get rid of the most crucial ones and there are always more crucial bugs than a slow shutdown. Something that makes some of us wait 20 seconds once a week isn't a big deal. The engineers time is better spent fixing the more important issues. And even though Apple has a lot of engineers they don't have infinitely many of them. So things have to be prioritised, always.

iBug2
Mar 4, 2013, 07:32 AM
A MacBook Pro should not out-perform a retina system, if it does than there is an underlying issue. Certainly a rMBP has more work in graphics rendering, however paying a higher premium for slower graphics with a myriad of glitches in Safari and over core app's should not be outweighed by the factor that it is a "retina" display. Work out the kinks, then release the product. Hopefully the next releases will be much more stable and consistent (a byproduct of first batch systems perhaps). What about OpenGL Core 4.0 support? It's god awful, something OS X has seemed to be suffering from for a while now. Windows systems blow even the most supped up Mac's out of the water. It's shameful. Releasing a "retina" display with shoddy graphics cards, resulting in over heating systems, shutdowns, graphic glitches. It's as though Apple focused more on the display and less on proper hardware support to drive it.

First of all, to make a retina as fast as a regular MBP Apple has to intentionally drop the quality of the GPU they put inside the regular one. Why would anyone do that? That won't make retina faster, only the regular slower. That's total nonsense. A retina mac will always be slower on certain rendering tasks than a regular one, whether it's a MBP or Mac Pro or iMac.

You don't pay higher premium for slower graphics. You pay a higher premium for the better display. And that better display is driven by the same GPU as other MBP's. There just isn't a faster GPU out there which can increase 2D rendering speeds of retinas at the moment. Even if you install semi desktop grade GPU's, their 2D performance won't be that much different on the retina resolution. There will be speed increases on retina macs in the future, mostly due to software being more optimised for HiDPI in the future. So there just isn't a time in the future when Apple "should" have released the retina MBP so that the performance didn't take a hit compared to regular ones. The same thing would have happened.

About Open GL 4.0 support, that's obviously a flaw of Apple not related to retinas. Apple has always been extremely slow on Open GL releases. This isn't specific to Lion or ML either. Open GL 3.2 was released around the same time as Snow Leopard yet Apple shipped SL with Open GL 2.1. But the performance hit compared to Windows isn't really about the lack of Open GL 4.0. That's an API for game and app developers. It doesn't speed things up for the current software. OS X being slower in games compared to Windows has tons of reasons, be it games being more optimised for DirectX instead of Open GL, be it issues with porting Windows games to OS X, be it OS X's GPU drivers being less optimised for gaming etc. Apple can ship 10.8.3 with Open GL 4.0 support tomorrow and all your games will run at exactly the same speed.

About overheating, I have no idea. I own a rMBP and it's running extremely cool compared to my 2009 MBP which was most of the time too hot to put on my lap. And the fan isn't kicking all the time on this one, even when I play games on it. So I'm really happy with the direction Apple took on these retina MBP's about heating. I haven't experienced any shutdowns, if someone has shutdowns due to overheating, it's a hardware issue and needs repairs/exchange. That's not a software bug.


As for tickets, I have experienced WiFi issues on my current gen 12-Core Mac Pro, 2012 MacBook Air and 2011 iMac. All systems have clean installs of 10.6.8, 10.8.2 and 10.8.3. Snow Leopard experiences no WiFi connectivity issues (dropping, spikes, inconsistent signals, etc). All things remaining equal, 10.8.x has definitely suffered from WiFi instability, running the latest .3 update doesn't seem to be helping. I've run this on guest accounts, clean installs using the buried .dmg on a USB drive, etc. Many user forums are frustrated by this issue. Personally, I found the networking protocols (I'm talking about you SAMBA) that Apple utilized in 10.7+ to be a huge hassle, especially for server related instances. I'm glad that finally got worked out, perhaps Apple jumped the gun in updating certain aspects, breaking compatibility, who knows. Safari has certainly improved, caching issues with websites not updated were a major PITA having to reload any time you navigate.

I haven't had wifi dropout issues on my retina but then again I never had wifi dropout issues on my 2009 MBP either with SL or L. I'm probably one of the lucky ones on this.


One aspect I'm on the fence about concerns the social networking features throughout 10.7-8 which seemed to be a major focus for OS X software engineers. I personally don't need them, but I've read numerous debates regarding the "bloatware" of said features. Some state it doesn't effect system performance if they are not configured/utilized, and others have shown proof that even unused they eat up background resources (which is rather perplexing).

They do eat background resources, like 0.2% CPU. If that's too much to give out for, then you should go back to Tiger if you can because every new OS had added more background tasks which run all the time. SL has more background tasks running than Leopard, Lion more than SL etc. But at any point you still have 96%ish CPU free where the 4% is everything the OS spends when it's idle.


10.7's Memory management was atrocious, 10.8 has been slightly better, however they fall well behind 10.6 in terms of overall functionality, speed, and stability. A system in 10.6.8 with half the RAM generally runs faster than a 10.7-8 system with double the RAM (and I'm not including the rMBP's in this remark).

Runs faster according to what? Geekbench scores on the same machines under SL and Lion have been the same. New OS releases don't increase or decrease hardware performance on Macs in big amounts.


I installed 10.8 on a friends 2010 MacBook Pro with 4GB's of RAM (from 10.6). It's so slow, simply using Mail, Safari, iTunes and smaller non-core app's is god awful. She went back to 10.6.8 and it's a breath of fresh air.

Why stop there? You could install Leopard on it and it'd run even faster with 4GB's of Ram. I haven't used a machine with less than 8GB Ram since 2008 so I don't know how my machines would perform with 4. But with 8 I haven't had any performance drops when I switched from SL to Lion. I had some performance drop in Finder tasks when I switched from Leopard to SL due to the new Finder being rewritten in cocoa and is doing a lot more background tasks at every click compared to what it was doing in Leopard. In general, Leopard for me was the most responsive OS, and with SL things got slower at first and then some of them sped up with Lion or ML.





It seems 10.8.3 is making its way as the longest and most released OS X 10.x.x release to date. Simply stating that there are "no known issues" doesn't mean it's issue free, there are plenty of open bugs that I have received follow-up's directly from Apple engineers requesting screen caps, movies, and detailed information. If Apple cannot get 10.8.3 ironed out, how is moving to 10.9 this year making any sense? You cannot build upon a core OS that needs work. Certainly 10.9 may be a complete rewrite, who knows at this point, but if it is anything akin to 10.7 and 10.8, I fear it may be a bugged disappointment.

No known issues means that no serious issues are known which can be reproduced on every hardware at every time. Like I said, there are always thousands of known issues at every OS release. This was the same with SL or Leopard or Lion or Tiger or whatever.

You don't need rewrites, you just get rid of the most important issues and deal with them later, or possibly never. I have bug tickets open since Leopard which haven't been fixed yet, so that makes 3 major OS releases and same bugs still are there. If you are new to bug reporting, get used to it. There are thousands of those like yours and some of them will never be fixed. This isn't only for OS X either, it's the same way with every OS out there.

ommthree
Mar 4, 2013, 07:51 AM
Any idea if it will help with the slow wake form sleep that I get on my 2012 macbook air? Sometimes I have to open and close the lid a few times before it will respond..... especially bad when I've had an external monitor connected. :confused:

bedifferent
Mar 4, 2013, 07:59 AM
First of all, to make a retina as fast as a regular MBP Apple has to intentionally drop the quality of the GPU they put inside the regular one.

Excellent points, agree on all. :)

Thanks for the kind response and engaging my mind.

unplugme71
Mar 4, 2013, 08:08 AM
They probably either:

1. Want this to be the last release before 10.9 so they are working out all the bugs.
2. They don't want to release something half-assed anymore.
3. They want the media to see how much effort they are putting into fixing no-known issues so there's no more bad publicity.
4. Adding a new feature or improving something. Maybe instead of having to get some feature like Siri in 10.9, they are making it work with 10.8 users as well, so as to not feel forced to upgrade to a major OS.
5. A combination of the above.

All I know is after taking this long, the first bug that appears will make it look like all this waiting was worthless. To me, I rather have smaller one-fixes then a update that fixes it all and having to wait longer.

cmChimera
Mar 4, 2013, 08:27 AM
I've been very vocal? Yes.
If you care not to read my comments, don't, this is an open forum. I read yours with an open mind, and take all opinions into consideration. I don't care if you make the comments, I simply acknowledge that you are very vocal in complaining about Lion and Mountain Lion and take it into consideration when replaying to your posts. I do not engage or provoke others unless first provoked, and in most cases I simply ignore them. If by provoked you mean that you encounter an opposing viewpoint, then this seems accurate.

Dismissing those who take issue as having "little merit" is your opinion, however it doesn't justify rudely dismissing others as you have done so skillfully. Instead, engage someone with an open mind, don't be so defensive, and don't push others' buttons, it serves no good other than to unjustly demean others who are here for the same reason as everyone else - our love of Apple products. Rudely dismissing and defensive...Hmm, our conversation started out by me pointing out some of your contradictory expectations, and then your replies started with: Your analogy lacks logic Don't think different, just, think Pretty defensive huh? But that's cool, I ignored it and replied anyway. Your next reply: Reading comprehension goes a long way. I'm all for debate, and don't really mind it getting heated. But let's not play the victim ok?

I respect your opinion(s), but please do not try to insult me by over-dramatizing my remarks and dismissing them as having little merit. They do have little merit, but I'm not over-dramatizing them. It's unnecessary. If you cannot be an adult about it, either move on without commenting or PM the individual. Again, don't play a victim. Otherwise, you seem to wish to publicly discredit someone for having a difference of opinion. I'm publicly telling you that your argument is weak. If that hurts your feelings, you may not want to be in a discussion.

Yaboze
Mar 4, 2013, 08:46 AM
OSX kinda peaked at Snow Leopard 10.6.8. My old late 2007 Macbook is still on it and boots up and shuts down faster than my late 2011 MBP with 10.8.2. :confused:

RedGeminiPA
Mar 4, 2013, 08:46 AM
Apple could at least provide a fix for the HDMI issues affecting the Intel 4000 graphics. Many Mac mini users don't have too many options without spending unnecessary money for dongles and band aids.

Luckily, I still had an old MDP to HDMI adapter I bought back when I had my unibody MacBook.

bedifferent
Mar 4, 2013, 09:10 AM
Yes..

You fail to mention the numerous times you commented rudely to me and others outside of this thread. Again, misleading. I have in the past 2 years made comments in various threads where they are applicable to the discussion regarding many disappoints in Craig Federighi's post Serlet tenure as V.P. of Software Engineering at Apple as his leadership seems to be the root of many issues plaguing what was otherwise a solid OS X. I state "seems" as my friends in Cupertino and many developers/engineers agree that he has been pivotal in the direction OS X has taken since Serlet officially parted in 2009 and announcing it in 2011 before Lion's release, to which Mr. Federighi has been heading the department. Further, there was no appointed V.P. of Software Engineering for months in 2011-12 until Federighi was finally placed on the board and announced.

Simply googling his name turns up instant threads on this matter, many on MacRumors (and many in which I am not a part of):

MacRumors:

Apple is getting sloppy and crappy lately (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1479566&page=1)

Craig Federighi Succeeding Bertrand Serlet as Apple's Chief of Mac Software (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/03/23/craig-federighi-succeeding-bertrand-serlet-as-apples-svp-of-mac-software/)

If you want proof backing up Serlet's departure and Federighi's head of OS X engineering, a very solid (and unbiased) article from CNET:

Who is Apple's new Mac guy? (http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-20046998-37.html)

I don't have the time to google and paste links to all the threads on the many disappointments regarding Lion and Mountain Lion since Federighi took helm, however I am far from the most vocal individual on MacRumors or the web regarding my love for 10.6 and my displeasure in 10.7 and 10.8. I will admit 10.8 is a huge improvement over 10.7. Various third party app's such as Total Spaces (http://totalspaces.binaryage.com) (adding 10.5/6 "Spaces" into 10.7/8), and XtraFinder (http://www.trankynam.com/xtrafinder/) as well as improvements in memory management and network protocols, have made 10.8 fairly stable and useable for myself and many others. Aside from the WiFi issues many are experiencing, I agree that 10.8 is not terrible. However, it is not "great" (I'm looking at you "Mission Control" ;) ).

I did not have the time in reading the play-by-play response to every sentence I wrote, so I will leave it at this. We will agree to disagree. I only ask that you think a bit before you respond to others as sometimes you may not realize that your tone and comments are, indeed, harsh. It has nothing to do with not agreeing with you, in fact I concede and have conceded points on this thread without resorting to dismissing someone's opinion and experiences as lacking merit. Tact goes a long way, and you catch more flies with honey. Just a few points to consider. :)

It's a beautiful Monday morning in Boston, hope everyone is fairing well.

PS just read the comments on this thread not by me, I'm not the only individual :)

OSX kinda peaked at Snow Leopard 10.6.8. My old late 2007 Macbook is still on it and boots up and shuts down faster than my late 2011 MBP with 10.8.2. :confused:

A point I mentioned earlier, to the t, and this is very common. In engineering systems, it should not be necessary to crank up hardware specs so drastically. Certainly hardware needs to improve and will not last forever, yet OS X never pushed the boundaries of needing such leaps in specs. This was an amusing joke Jobs made many times regarding Windows Vista and 7 during OS X releases, as both required bumps in hardware that OS X 10.x releases had not in the past. One of many reasons so many love(d) OS X, systems lasted longer than others (generally), but yes, I agree, with RAM being so inexpensive, it shouldn't pose an issue. It's the graphics and drivers/kexts that Apple needs to seriously examine, especially with retina systems being deployed.

saldin
Mar 4, 2013, 10:19 AM
What?!!! ANOTHER beta? That's exactly what I DID NOT WANT to happen. This has to be the LAST beta before public release. Maybe I could afford to wait one more week, but I CANNOT WAIT two more weeks.

I'm trying to be as patient as I can, but I think that Apple is taking TOO long. They better have a good reason for it, such as bug fixing.

:mad:

I'm with you all the way. I've been waiting point releases after point releases since 10.7.0... Installing Lion was the second worst decision I could've made, as it caused me endless grief because of all the bugs. Lion addressed all my issues by 10.7.4, but shortly after, I made the worst decision so far and upgraded to Mountain Lion on day one: I've been suffering graphic glitches, crashes, slowness, and so on, and I'm waiting for the update that will take the issues away.

I understand other Mac users may have no problems, and that's ok. But I get really annoyed when they start attacking people with real problems like me. Apparently, Macs and OS X are perfect and anyone saying they have issues are Microsoft trolls looking to provoke others and start a war or something.

Anyway, I'm there with you, waiting for 10.8.3 and hoping my patience doesn't run out just yet.

PurrBall
Mar 4, 2013, 11:13 AM
For what it's worth, 10.8.3 is extremely stable. As in, awesome stable. Unfortunately, graphics still suck, and boot and shutdown times still suck as well. Maybe next time.

milo
Mar 4, 2013, 11:18 AM
The hate came from the removal of Rosetta. If you take those users out of the equation then the hatred would be almost gone. Just a thought.

Not in my experience, there was a ton of hate simply because performance was so much worse than 10.6. If someone is running happily on 10.6 I still recommend they stay on it unless they absolutely have to.


Apple probably started work on 10.8.4 a long time ago.

Apple started work on 10.9 a long time ago.

RedGeminiPA
Mar 4, 2013, 11:20 AM
Are Safari and Web Process still sucking up resources? I have 4 tabs open for different forums, and between the two they're sucking up over 1GB of RAM. I feel really sorry for anyone who has one of the new Macs and can't upgrade the RAM.

simonb76
Mar 4, 2013, 11:47 AM
Has any one experienced any improvement in the long standing Logic Pro lag issue with any of these betas? Apple did mention about issues with Logic Pro in a previous beta release. It's been lingering since Lion but more and more people are complaining about it now since 10.8.2.

sbgirling
Mar 4, 2013, 12:11 PM
Apple could at least provide a fix for the HDMI issues affecting the Intel 4000 graphics. Many Mac mini users don't have too many options without spending unnecessary money for dongles and band aids.

Luckily, I still had an old MDP to HDMI adapter I bought back when I had my unibody MacBook.

I agree completely. Been waiting months on this. Could this not have been a mini release?

SVTmaniac
Mar 4, 2013, 12:21 PM
I agree completely. Been waiting months on this. Could this not have been a mini release?

It's really the only issue I've had with my Mini is the HDMI monitor I use as the second display.

iFitzgerald
Mar 4, 2013, 01:09 PM
I don't usually post here much, but I've been reading the posts ever since 10.8.3 betas started to read on feedback from people who are testing it.

Lion for me was awful, the performance was really bad. I upgrade with a clean install right on the first couple of days. Performance did become better and my iMac actually runs pretty fine considering it's a machine with almost 5 years, although sometimes I wish it was a bit faster, like it was o Snow Leopard.

But my MacBook Pro is a different story...while things are better since Mountain Lion, I feel that a 2009 15" MBP with 8Gb RAM should run quite a LOT faster than it runs now. This is my work horse and it was definitely faster with Snow Leopard in several aspects. Not to mention that my dedicated graphics card has been crashing ever since 10.8.2 which leads me to believe they messed up something with the graphics drivers. It just crashes randomly (scrolling pages on Chrome, starting a call on Skype and using swipe between spaces).

The Apple Hardware test showed no problems and I even made a clean install with 10.8.2 (so clean install and no non-apple kexts loaded) but it still crashes. Sometimes it's Kernel Panic City here so I resorted to using gfxCardStatus until 10.8.3 comes out. I'm really hungry for this update and I understand it will take the time it has to take to come out, but the wait is killing me x)

Regarding the Snow Leopard vs Mountain Lion debate, while ML has been quite better than Lion, I think in some things SN performed better, at least for me. I love a lot of the features in ML (some, not so much), but would like to see them focus in performance a bit this time. I would love to see a 10.9 focused on performance. Sorry for long post...

walfrieda
Mar 4, 2013, 01:33 PM
I don't think that makes any sense. I don't see how having multiple betas of a point update indicates a problem with leadership. They're simply ironing out a release. And Federighi isn't a one man team. There is likely adequate staff to release software.

It is ONLY a leadership problem, and it is very obvious. A leader has to set and enforce priorities. He has to draw a cutoff line between "bugs to fix asap" and "bugs to fix when we have time". This is a difficult task, but that's why leaders are being paid quite well. For an entire OS, there are hundreds if not thousands of bugs, from megabugs to buglets. It is completely incomprehensible why we have to wait months for fixes of the really important bugs (such as stuttering graphics on Retina books, massively reduced batterie life, sandboxing/spotlight problems, or a security issue such as the utterly ridiculous file: bug which could be hot-fixed in an hour), just because some people experience minor glitches such as changes of the wallpaper. That is clearly a leadership problem.

milo
Mar 4, 2013, 03:31 PM
Has any one experienced any improvement in the long standing Logic Pro lag issue with any of these betas? Apple did mention about issues with Logic Pro in a previous beta release. It's been lingering since Lion but more and more people are complaining about it now since 10.8.2.

The release notes say it's fixed, I've heard some say it fixes it but I've seen one report of the issue with one of the earlier .3 betas. Hopefully in the latest it's fixed, at least it should happen less often.

swissmann
Mar 5, 2013, 09:09 AM
Drumroll please...

Released today...or tomorrow...or...Thursday...or next week.

Anyone think today? I'll guess for something like the 8th week in a row now that it will be released this Wednesday.

epelba01
Mar 5, 2013, 10:38 AM
I hope you are right and it is released today. It has been a long wait.

zeeklancer
Mar 5, 2013, 11:56 AM
Somebody is messing with the update page?

dmooreco
Mar 5, 2013, 12:16 PM
Somebody is messing with the update page?

FWIW...Mine worked fine.

Risco
Mar 5, 2013, 01:27 PM
FWIW...Mine worked fine.

What the hell does FWIW mean?

Peace
Mar 5, 2013, 01:28 PM
What the hell does FWIW mean?

For What It's Worth.

fwiw.
;)

MACRM32
Mar 5, 2013, 04:00 PM
12D76 is out.

johnscully
Mar 5, 2013, 04:15 PM
Sigh.

kensic
Mar 5, 2013, 04:17 PM
grr stuck at work!!

Badagri
Mar 5, 2013, 04:22 PM
For what it's worth, 10.8.3 is extremely stable. As in, awesome stable. Unfortunately, graphics still suck, and boot and shutdown times still suck as well. Maybe next time.

Extremely stable? 10.8 - .2 has been as extremely stable as I can imagine. Over a months uptime on a mechanical with 16GB page outs.

epelba01
Mar 5, 2013, 04:23 PM
Is that another beta or a final release to the public?

Badagri
Mar 5, 2013, 04:24 PM
Must be a beta, there's no updates showing for me. I see no mention of 10.8.3 on other tech sites. Nor is Apple Insider reporting anything about it.

Peace
Mar 5, 2013, 04:24 PM
Is that another beta or a final release to the public?

It's another beta.

w0lf
Mar 5, 2013, 04:33 PM
It's another beta.

Dear god, when will it stop...

Hungry&Foolish
Mar 5, 2013, 04:38 PM
Is this happening for real? Ridiculous.

w0lf
Mar 5, 2013, 04:39 PM
Is this happening for real? Ridiculous.

Yeah it's for real, I'm downloading it right now.

Peace
Mar 5, 2013, 04:41 PM
I feel honored to be part of the most seeded beta ever !!

:D

Badagri
Mar 5, 2013, 04:42 PM
A beta that hardly fixes anything. :D

Peace
Mar 5, 2013, 04:43 PM
A beta that hardly fixes anything. :D

I'm sure it fixed something. It's the second build since the last beta.

ghosthaunt11
Mar 5, 2013, 05:22 PM
Is it really necessary for Apple to make us wait?

w0lf
Mar 5, 2013, 05:36 PM
Hmmmm this build appears to have fixed the slow shutdown issue for me.

I've restarted my computer several times now and every time it's shut down within 4-6 seconds regardless of what I have running. I haven't even seen the spinner show up, all the apps just close, the screen goes gray and it's off.

Anyone else who was having slow shutdown before have it fixed with this build?

Badagri
Mar 5, 2013, 07:38 PM
I'm sure it fixed something. It's the second build since the last beta.

I hope you're right, but....

For what it's worth, 10.8.3 is extremely stable. As in, awesome stable. Unfortunately, graphics still suck, and boot and shutdown times still suck as well. Maybe next time.

That does not spark confidence. Spaces can be a little laggy sometimes.

John.B
Mar 5, 2013, 09:40 PM
Fusion Drive-compatible Disk Utility?

milo
Mar 6, 2013, 09:23 AM
Is it really necessary for Apple to make us wait?

The new builds mean they still have bugs unfixed that they want addressed before release. And with any of these builds there's the possibility that an attempt at a fix breaks something else, so they want to get any update tested enough before public release. The last build seems like it may have had a couple things that got worse, so it's good they did another beta.

Risco
Mar 10, 2013, 08:18 AM
For What It's Worth.

fwiw.
;)

Ah, I was there are the beginning of the text revolution but never have never really got all this new fangled text speak..Cheers.