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MacRumors
Mar 8, 2013, 01:25 PM
http://images.macrumors.com/im/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2013/03/08/paypal-creates-ios-sdk-to-integrate-checkouts-and-payments-directly-in-apps/)


http://images.macrumors.com/article-new/2013/03/paypal.jpgPayPal today introduced a new mobile SDK (https://www.thepaypalblog.com/2013/03/sxsw-2013-paypal-developer-tools/) that allows iOS app developers to integrate PayPal checkout and mobile credit card payment mechanisms directly into their apps.

Currently, iOS developers can include PayPal payment buttons into their apps, but users are redirected to Safari to complete their transactions. Now, users will be able to pay without ever leaving the app, including using PayPal's card.io (https://www.card.io) technology that allows users to pay with a credit card by taking a picture of it rather than manually entering the credit card number.

Apple does something similar (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/11/29/itunes-11-store-adds-gift-card-redemption-via-camera/) in iTunes 11 with iTunes Gift Cards.
Mobile SDK - Everyone knows that mobile is changing the way consumers shop and pay, and no one more than developers who must have a mobile presence to compete in today's environment. We're launching a mobile SDK so that developers can deliver great experiences for their customers by reducing friction when it comes to payments. Customers never leave the developer's app experience to pay and they have more choice in the way they want to pay - simply click a PayPal button or scan a credit card using our card.io (http://card.io) technology. We're making it available for iOS developers first, but we'll expand to other platforms soon.PayPal promises more APIs and capabilities through the rest of 2013.

Article Link: PayPal Creates iOS SDK to Integrate Checkouts and Payments Directly in Apps (http://www.macrumors.com/2013/03/08/paypal-creates-ios-sdk-to-integrate-checkouts-and-payments-directly-in-apps/)



Teh Don Ditty
Mar 8, 2013, 01:28 PM
I thought that was against Apple's policies? It was either iTunes or GTFO.

komodrone
Mar 8, 2013, 01:30 PM
doesn't this conflict with in app purchases?

HobeSoundDarryl
Mar 8, 2013, 01:37 PM
I bet we're going to learn that this involves a 3X% cut with 30% going to Apple and the other X% going to Paypal. This is just a guess but about the only way I see this flying in iOS transactions. Of course, what would be the motivation for a seller to cut in Paypal if they can just process through Apple for "only"(?) 30%?

starbird
Mar 8, 2013, 01:44 PM
It will be interesting to see where this is going... But then, would Apple not get 30% of only what Paypal is charging?

Rudy69
Mar 8, 2013, 01:45 PM
My guess is that any app that includes this SDK will be rejected

Consultant
Mar 8, 2013, 01:58 PM
My guess is that any app that includes this SDK will be rejected

Yes that's probably will be the case. Otherwise apps can use Apple App Store as free distribution and keep profit for itself.

Diode
Mar 8, 2013, 01:59 PM
I thought that was against Apple's policies? It was either iTunes or GTFO.

I think it depends on how it's used. For instance an e-commerce app should be able to offer paypal as a checkout method.

Or donation-ware apps could be created - IE donate to the developer if one finds the app useful. Lots of great mac apps gets developed this way.

ifij775
Mar 8, 2013, 02:22 PM
This would be great for selling real-world goods in an app. Kudos to Paypal for offering this.

nutmac
Mar 8, 2013, 02:23 PM
I thought that was against Apple's policies? It was either iTunes or GTFO.

If that was the case, apps like Amazon, Apple Store, eBay, Square, and Walmart wouldn't be allowed on the App Store.

Jeremy1026
Mar 8, 2013, 02:34 PM
I think it depends on how it's used. For instance an e-commerce app should be able to offer paypal as a checkout method.

Or donation-ware apps could be created - IE donate to the developer if one finds the app useful. Lots of great mac apps gets developed this way.

Both of these are disallowed by the App Store guidelines.

1. You can't sell physical goods from within an application. Which is why Amazon kicks you out to their mobile page to check out.

2. Donationware is not permitted. No matter what method of payment there is.

ifij775
Mar 8, 2013, 02:36 PM
Both of these are disallowed by the App Store guidelines.

1. You can't sell physical goods from within an application. Which is why Amazon kicks you out to their mobile page to check out.

2. Donationware is not permitted. No matter what method of payment there is.

Does Apple object to not getting a cut or just selling in general? This policy is getting dated. Why not allow a consistent app experience for buying goods.

winston1236
Mar 8, 2013, 02:37 PM
It will be interesting to see where this is going... But then, would Apple not get 30% of only what Paypal is charging?

So with paypal taking 20% plus apple taking 30% the consumer gets bent over.

guzhogi
Mar 8, 2013, 02:52 PM
I like the idea, but as has been said, whether Apple will allow it is unknown. Apple has an inconsistent approval process. IMO, if a product/service uses Apple's services (like being delivered by Apple's servers), then Apple should get a cut. If Apple doesn't have to do anything with it, they don't get a cut. Like some in-app purchases for games where you buy more gold, weapons, etc., that doesn't need anything from Apple's servers. It just tells the developer's servers "Credit $X to user y's character." Why does Apple need a 30% cut for that? I understand Apple wanting to be a good company and maximize profits, but still.

dwarfling
Mar 8, 2013, 02:53 PM
This is hardly serious news , because Paypal SDK for paying within APP (with native components not through webpage) has been present for at least year and many apps already use it :-) Though it is nice if they finally merged their multiple options into single kit.

Mr. Zorg
Mar 8, 2013, 02:54 PM
Very strange. I can't believe PayPal would bother if they didn't know it would be allowed...

Dionte
Mar 8, 2013, 02:58 PM
Good luck with that on ios PayPal?

ChristianJapan
Mar 8, 2013, 02:59 PM
Even Amazon removed it from its apps like Kindle and Audible ... Maybe Apple goes less restrictive on the policies recently without informing to loudly. Lets wait for the first apps trying it. I expect to see on main page soon reports talking about frustrated developer getting Apps rejected because of this PayPa API.

fredfnord
Mar 8, 2013, 03:18 PM
Both of these are disallowed by the App Store guidelines.

1. You can't sell physical goods from within an application. Which is why Amazon kicks you out to their mobile page to check out.


You say this very authoritatively, but I have never seen any indication that it is true.

This is what Apple has to say on the subject:

11.1 Apps that unlock or enable additional features or functionality with mechanisms other than the App Store will be rejected.

11.2 Apps utilizing a system other than the In App Purchase API (IAP) to purchase content, functionality, or services in an app will be rejected.

11.3 Apps using IAP to purchase physical goods or goods and services used outside of the application will be rejected.


So, you cannot unlock features or functionality in your app without using the App Store. You cannot purchase content, functionality, or services IN YOUR APP without using IAP. And you can't use IAP to purchas physical goods or goods and services used outside the application.

Nowhere, as far as I can see, does it say that you cannot use your own payment system to purchase real-world goods and/or services from within an app.

tdtran1025
Mar 8, 2013, 03:36 PM
Google is making inroads into iOS sacred samctity

bearda
Mar 8, 2013, 03:46 PM
Google is making inroads into iOS sacred samctity

What does this have to do with Google?

ChristianJapan
Mar 8, 2013, 04:02 PM
You say this very authoritatively, but I have never seen any indication that it is true.

This is what Apple has to say on the subject:
...

Nowhere, as far as I can see, does it say that you cannot use your own payment system to purchase real-world goods and/or services from within an app.

I'm very sure that the intention from Apple is: all money flows via their system. Thats in 11.1: mechanisms other then AppStore. Even if you are right and the lawyer from PayPal checked the wording: Apple will adjust soon the rules and explicit exclude that attempt to cut their cut.

dryJ
Mar 8, 2013, 04:04 PM
You say this very authoritatively, but I have never seen any indication that it is true.

This is what Apple has to say on the subject:

So, you cannot unlock features or functionality in your app without using the App Store. You cannot purchase content, functionality, or services IN YOUR APP without using IAP. And you can't use IAP to purchas physical goods or goods and services used outside the application.

Nowhere, as far as I can see, does it say that you cannot use your own payment system to purchase real-world goods and/or services from within an app.

This exactly. Apple won't allow you to use other payment systems for virtual goods (eBooks, unlocking 10 points in FarmVille, etc), you have to use IAP.
On the other hand, I know from personal experience* that you must use other payment sources, such as taking card details yourself or using PayPal or other payment providers, to provide physical goods to the consumer. IAP is not allowed to be used in this case.

I find it odd that PayPal are saying this is brand new, yet according to the PayPal MPL (Mobile Payments Library, the previous name for this SDK) documentation, the first version of this SDK was available in Feb 2010. I know this is a "brand new" version, but to state it as if there was never a previous version seems odd.

* I am the developer of an app that allows people to upload their photos to us to be printed in our photo lab. The app has used the PayPal SDK for payments since the app's launch in Jan 2012.

flash84x
Mar 8, 2013, 04:28 PM
Both of these are disallowed by the App Store guidelines.

1. You can't sell physical goods from within an application. Which is why Amazon kicks you out to their mobile page to check out.

2. Donationware is not permitted. No matter what method of payment there is.

That's garbage, you absolutely can sell physical goods within an App that don't go through In-App-Purchase. I've done this with Amazon orders, movie tickets on Fandango, Gift Cards with Starbucks, and probably other things.

What you CAN'T do is sell digital content or unlocks within your app unless you use the In-App-Purchases system where Apple takes 30%

jumanji
Mar 8, 2013, 04:31 PM
I thought that was against Apple's policies? It was either iTunes or GTFO.

so did i. what gives? we were told we couldn't do this.

Arbuthnott
Mar 8, 2013, 04:51 PM
All of the comments I see are about commercial or technical possibility. As a customer with experience of the "service", I will NOT be buying from anyone limiting their payment method to PayPal! I don't see this announcement as being any kind of good news

Swift
Mar 8, 2013, 05:13 PM
for the 30% treatment. The app is free. You buy, or are given, a device that scans credit cards. They're not selling apps, they're not selling you music - but they can, I suppose. There would be hell to pay if Apple kept only its payment method exclusive to the iPhone. And it's the wrong choice to compete.

There's a big fight going on with phone as payment mechanism. If Mastercard or Visa wants to make it possible, I'd let them compete on the iPhone. More likely to become widely accepted.

Mastercard pays its own electric bill and its own Internet bills. Apple has chosen the Passport gift card model for its first payments.

Snowshiro
Mar 8, 2013, 05:23 PM
1. You can't sell physical goods from within an application. Which is why Amazon kicks you out to their mobile page to check out.

Amazon kicks you out to their mobile page to avoid the 30% cut Apple demands. Amazon's margins are too thin for them to be able to make a profit if they have to give a third of their cash to another company. They would make a loss on every sale.

Saladinos
Mar 8, 2013, 07:44 PM
You've forgotten the biggest rule of the AppStore.

Those policies are like the pirates code - more like guidelines than actual rules. Apple can and will change them at any time, and your app may be rejected if it goes against the spirit of the policies even if not the letter.

3rd-party payment mechanisms are clearly against the spirit of having all purchases go through iTunes. Apple won't let this through.

You say this very authoritatively, but I have never seen any indication that it is true.

This is what Apple has to say on the subject:


So, you cannot unlock features or functionality in your app without using the App Store. You cannot purchase content, functionality, or services IN YOUR APP without using IAP. And you can't use IAP to purchas physical goods or goods and services used outside the application.

Nowhere, as far as I can see, does it say that you cannot use your own payment system to purchase real-world goods and/or services from within an app.

djharris
Mar 8, 2013, 09:14 PM
Why wouldn't this be allowed the same way square is allowed to scan credit cards using their hardware and the iPhone? Intuit has a service and device similar to square too. I suppose the only difference is Paypal doesn't require special hardware, you can just use the camera.

sparkso
Mar 8, 2013, 09:52 PM
If that was the case, apps like Amazon, Apple Store, eBay, Square, and Walmart wouldn't be allowed on the App Store.

Dude check out those apps and see what function is missing

thewitt
Mar 8, 2013, 10:27 PM
Selling hard goods within an app is absolutely supported, no not using the in app purchase mechanism. In fact, from the Apple Developers Guide:

" You must deliver your digital good or service within your app. Do not use In-App Purchase to sell real-world goods and services."

I purchase regularly from apps - pizza, flowers, movie tickets, Best Buy (for store pickup), etc

Apple does NOT take a percentage for hard goods purchases through your app.

twigman08
Mar 9, 2013, 12:01 AM
Both of these are disallowed by the App Store guidelines.

1. You can't sell physical goods from within an application. Which is why Amazon kicks you out to their mobile page to check out.

2. Donationware is not permitted. No matter what method of payment there is.

You're 100% wrong.
You absolutely can have users buy physical goods! I just bought something from NewEgg using their iOS app. Not once was I transferred to their mobile site.

badNameErr
Mar 9, 2013, 02:52 AM
This is hardly serious news , because Paypal SDK for paying within APP (with native components not through webpage) has been present for at least year and many apps already use it :-) Though it is nice if they finally merged their multiple options into single kit.

This. Exactly. It's been available for at-least six months now.
I too am using it in an app.

Don't understand why PalPay is making a big deal about it.

akac
Mar 9, 2013, 09:28 PM
Amazon kicks you out to their mobile page to avoid the 30% cut Apple demands. Amazon's margins are too thin for them to be able to make a profit if they have to give a third of their cash to another company. They would make a loss on every sale.

No they don't. I use the Amazon app at least 3-4 times a week and NEVER use or get kicked out to a we page. I pick an existing payment method or add a new one.

----------

Dude check out those apps and see what function is missing

Dude you are wrong. I've personally used almost every one of those apps and its always used my CC within the app, not Apples in app purchase or a web page.

I'm not sure if you are trolling or what's wrong.

somethingelsefl
Mar 9, 2013, 09:44 PM
I thought that was against Apple's policies? It was either iTunes or GTFO.

Several apps use other forms of payment: Groupon, eBay, Gyft, etc all take alternate forms of payment. The limitation Apple places is that 1) If the origin of the payment or subscription is from the app, the app must use iTunes (and Apple's 30%). 2) Alternate forms of payment (such as Amazon and PayPal) are allowed, but sign up and referrals cannot be redirected by the app.

Summed up: If the app is where the payment's source occurs, it must use iTunes. If there is another form of payment, the other form must be registered externally PRIOR to the app purchase.

It's confusing as heck, but Apple hopes that the users and developers will mak things simpler by just using iTunes payment in their apps.

Cubytus
Mar 9, 2013, 10:08 PM
All of the comments I see are about commercial or technical possibility. As a customer with experience of the "service", I will NOT be buying from anyone limiting their payment method to PayPal! I don't see this announcement as being any kind of good newsSince you seem to know more can you tell us what are the other reputable means of payment over the Internet? Monopoly is never any good.

I will NOT be buying from anyone limiting their payment method to Google Wallet. Nor from anyone limiting their carriers to UPS.

PayPal is creating a SDK. If only they could create a working application or mobile Web page, now.

thewitt
Mar 10, 2013, 03:15 AM
All of the comments I see are about commercial or technical possibility. As a customer with experience of the "service", I will NOT be buying from anyone limiting their payment method to PayPal! I don't see this announcement as being any kind of good news

Who is saying that PayPal will be your only payment option? Although if it was, you should know you can pay with a credit card without a PayPal account. The API makes this transparent as well.

----------

Several apps use other forms of payment: Groupon, eBay, Gyft, etc all take alternate forms of payment. The limitation Apple places is that 1) If the origin of the payment or subscription is from the app, the app must use iTunes (and Apple's 30%). 2) Alternate forms of payment (such as Amazon and PayPal) are allowed, but sign up and referrals cannot be redirected by the app.

Summed up: If the app is where the payment's source occurs, it must use iTunes. If there is another form of payment, the other form must be registered externally PRIOR to the app purchase.

It's confusing as heck, but Apple hopes that the users and developers will mak things simpler by just using iTunes payment in their apps.

It's not confusing, your description makes it very confusing though.

Apple does not want you selling physical goods thru in app purchases.

Apple does however want you to use in app purchases for digital content, advanced app features, etc.

It's really quite simple.

Luke Redpath
Mar 10, 2013, 01:04 PM
Just in case anybody was still confused about this, those saying this will not be permitted by Apple are simply wrong.

It has always been permissible to take direct payments, through Paypal or otherwise, for services used outside of your app or for physical goods and in fact the use if IAP is expressly forbidden for this.

Just some examples of apps I have used that do this: Starbucks (card topups, direct card payment), Dominos Pizza (Paypal using embedded web view), Ocado grocery deliveries (direct card payment). Many other valid examples have been pointed out.

Conversely, if you are offering content or services to be used inside of your app, even if they can be used from other platforms (eg Netflix subscription or ebooks) you MUST use IAP.

All valid uses if this new Paypal SDK will accepted by Apple without issue. Developers using it to circumvent IAP (including "donation ware" models) will be rejected.

There is no conflict of interest because the things you must use IAP for and the things you must use third party payment mechanisms for are mutually exclusive.

Clear enough?

jliehr
Mar 10, 2013, 07:20 PM
You guys never used the eBay app..? What do you think that uses?

nutmac
Mar 11, 2013, 12:07 PM
Dude check out those apps and see what function is missing

I use these apps to make a purchase/transaction all the time.

Brother Esau
Mar 13, 2013, 12:45 AM
considering that PayPal is the equivalent to Organized Crime these days, it really does not surprise me that they seem to be the exception here.

Pretty much all I can say is F#CK PayPal and they can eat a bag of sh^%t!

Those scumbags have honestly ripped me off for thousands of dollars and I mean that with no exaggeration!:mad: