PDA

View Full Version : Apple's 'iPhone 5S Problem' Suggests Need to Be Less Predictable




MacRumors
Mar 12, 2013, 09:43 AM
http://images.macrumors.com/im/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2013/03/12/apples-iphone-5s-problem-suggests-need-to-be-less-predictable/)


iMore Editor-in-Chief Rene Ritchie has written a worthwhile opinion piece (http://www.imore.com/iphone-5s-problem) arguing that part of Apple's challenge in maintaining its performance in an increasingly competitive smartphone market is the predictability of its "tick-tock" strategy of a major iPhone release every other year and an 'S' refresh on the years in between.

http://images.macrumors.com/article-new/2013/03/5-inch_iPhone_mockup_lineup-800x450.jpg
Ritchie, whose close sources within Apple led him to report the Lightning connector several months before it was released and correctly predict both the iPad mini launch date and the announcement date of the iPhone 5, says this predictability hurts sales and helps competitors.[Consumers] began to realize when new iPhones would be released. That led to a slowdown in sales for existing iPhone models just prior to the presumed next release. Apple taught people when to buy, and by extension, when not to buy.

Apple also taught competitors how to counter-program the iPhone. It's probably not a coincidence that HTC announced their next-generation Android phone, the HTC one, back in February, or that Samsung is holding their Galaxy S4 event this March.Apple's approach of maintaining the same external casing and largely unchanged internal components in its 'S' models limits the innovation that can be offered, making consumers far more likely to look around at competitor products in 'S' years, giving competitors a great opportunity to launch major new models.

Ritchie points to the range of rumors circulating around potential new products from Apple, and says that while all are unlikely to be true, "breaking patterns and challenging expectations is just one way to solve that problem".

Article Link: Apple's 'iPhone 5S Problem' Suggests Need to Be Less Predictable (http://www.macrumors.com/2013/03/12/apples-iphone-5s-problem-suggests-need-to-be-less-predictable/)



jhead95
Mar 12, 2013, 09:45 AM
Same story every year... yet they are the most profitable every year.

Dr McKay
Mar 12, 2013, 09:48 AM
They can't win, if they break release cycle like they did with the iPad then people on here feel cheated because their latest shiny isn't the latest shiny.

vmachiel
Mar 12, 2013, 09:48 AM
Ok Apple, surprise us this year!

rorschach
Mar 12, 2013, 09:52 AM
Isn't this one of the problems that was supposedly going to be solved by ditching Macworld? Part of the problem with the annual Macworld was that people expected Apple to announce groundbreaking new products every year in January. Pulling out was going to mean Apple could take its time and announce things when they were ready.

Now it seems they've fallen right back into the trap. People expect a new iPad in the spring, a new iPhone in June, new iPods in September, etc.

On the other hand, when they don't stick to a regular schedule you get people complaining that "I didn't expect the new iPad until spring! WTF now my iPad x is totally obsolete 3 months early!"

Seems they can't win no matter what.

claimed4all
Mar 12, 2013, 09:57 AM
Same story every year... yet they are the most profitable every year.

They will have the most profitable quarter in the lifetime of the company, yet people will be pissed, the stock will, all because it wasn't enough profit.

3N16MA
Mar 12, 2013, 09:57 AM
Samsung seems to have the same cheap looking plastic casing on their flagship Galaxy line every year. Why is the burden on Apple to top their already impressive designs every year for the simple sake of letting people know they have the newest gear.

The one big aspect of the Galaxy line that drives the average consumer to make a purchase is it's screen size. Apple may or may not address that with a larger iPhone in the future.

BaldiMac
Mar 12, 2013, 09:59 AM
Apple's approach of maintaining the same external casing and largely unchanged internal components in its 'S' models limits the innovation that can be offered, making consumers far more likely to look around at competitor products in 'S' years, giving competitors a great opportunity to launch major new models.

I question how the conclusion in bold can be reached based on the 'S' years to date. Sounds good in theory but the 3GS and the 4S both resulted in a dramatic increases in sales.

Increase in sales (and market share) does not equal "consumers far more likely to look around at competitor products."

gleepskip
Mar 12, 2013, 10:00 AM
We've been conditioned to want things to be predictable and consistent from Apple. Look how much uproar there was when Apple abandoned the 30-pin connector.

I think they would get far more criticism for radically altering their product year-to-year than the criticism for not innovating enough.

JayLenochiniMac
Mar 12, 2013, 10:04 AM
Meaningless article. They still sell an assload of iPhones every other year with very little changed.

Torrijos
Mar 12, 2013, 10:06 AM
Funny how we keep hearing the same stories all the time while Apple keeps being the most profitable company in the segments they're involved in.

Also analysts and other supposed researchers keep talking sales and production figures while refusing to acknowledge that they have been led on countless times in the recent past (like MS or Samsung's GTab supposed sell figures that ended being channel sales).

Why is it so hard, for countless tech people, to understand that Apple competes in the market they want to compete in once they have found out the right way to do so?
Sure they're million of phones to be sold in the low margin markets but that would overextend the company without improving its profitability, like their competitors have proven in the last couple of years.

larrybeo
Mar 12, 2013, 10:12 AM
The iPhone 5 design is the most pristine example of laziness. It is literally no different than the 4s.. mostly because developers don't have the incentive to utilize the extra processing power on the device due to limits of the OS. I could sell my 32GB 4s and pay roughly $100 for a 5s equivalent - but I have no desire to do that. The 5s isn't going to be worth $100 to me. Apple's stock is half of what it was 6 months ago, and it's because the company is no longer innovative, not that people can predict what they are doing.

thekris1234
Mar 12, 2013, 10:12 AM
I've owned every iPhone since the 3G. I have always been on pay and go here in the UK so I don't have to pay ridiculous fees to get out of contracts. I'm always on Apple's site early in the morning of the release day ready to purchase as soon as it is live.

I have always followed the same rule with Apple products. If you don't get it the day it is released there is not much point getting it and that's what I've told everyone who asks me about a product.

I think it's quite scary how quickly competitors have advanced over the past few years and now the idea of an S product sounds like something that should be released 6 months after a major launch. I don't think Apple can get away with an S launch this year if they want to win back customers. The argument that they're still way more profitable is irrelevant. They still need to win back the consumers they have lost. The loyalists will always upgrade (as I have done).

But this year I'm really hoping some new features are added. I don't mind the look of the iPhone 5, it looks beautiful, I just hope it gets made out of stronger materials this time.

The same goes for iOS. I don't think it needs a complete overhaul, I just don't want Phil standing up there announcing 5 new major features that are similar to competitors while everyone who aren't loyalists laugh.

That's my thoughts anyway. And I would say I'm a huge Apple fan.

Carlanga
Mar 12, 2013, 10:12 AM
... . largely unchanged internal components in its 'S' models...
Whoever wrote this piece doesn't understand hardware, "largely unchanged internals" sure you keep telling yourself that. Outside in the S models has always been largely unchanged, but the insides have had very large changes in components, speed was the major change on the 3GS and the 4S had as the biggest the antenna fix, besides other things for both S models.

larrybeo
Mar 12, 2013, 10:13 AM
Funny how we keep hearing the same stories all the time while Apple keeps being the most profitable company in the segments they're involved in.

Also analysts and other supposed researchers keep talking sales and production figures while refusing to acknowledge that they have been led on countless times in the recent past (like MS or Samsung's GTab supposed sell figures that ended being channel sales).

Why is it so hard, for countless tech people, to understand that Apple competes in the market they want to compete in once they have found out the right way to do so?
Sure they're million of phones to be sold in the low margin markets but that would overextend the company without improving its profitability, like their competitors have proven in the last couple of years.

You neglect to mention that Apple's stock is half of what it was six months ago while the rest of the stock market has skyrocketed.

Dades
Mar 12, 2013, 10:17 AM
Apple's stock is half of what it was 6 months ago, and it's because the company is no longer innovative, not that people can predict what they are doing.Apple's stock level dropped because it simply cannot maintain the momentum. No company can continue to grow profits exponentially. It overpeaked, then dropped back to a realistic level. It'll grow again as they continue to print money.

meboy
Mar 12, 2013, 10:17 AM
Seriously? People like you give iPhone people a bad rap.

The S1, S2 and S3. They all look pretty different to me. Let alone the major changes in hardware/software through those models.

Compared to the 3, 4, and 5 Samsung and Android have moved in leaps and bounds. Well beyond the iPhone and iOS.


Samsung seems to have the same cheap looking plastic casing on their flagship Galaxy line every year. Why is the burden on Apple to top their already impressive designs every year for the simple sake of letting people know they have the newest gear.

The one big aspect of the Galaxy line that drives the average consumer to make a purchase is it's screen size. Apple may or may not address that with a larger iPhone in the future.

kas23
Mar 12, 2013, 10:17 AM
Whoever wrote this piece doesn't understand hardware, "largely unchanged internals" sure you keep telling yourself that. Outside in the S models has always been largely unchanged, but the insides have had very large changes in components, speed was the major change on the 3GS and the 4S had as the biggest the antenna fix, besides other things for both S models.

Do you think the average iPhone owner knows that though? I don't think so. All of us on this website (which is a tiny sliver of iPhone owners) do, but the average consumer has no idea. For an example, my wife and I jumped from the iPhone 4 to 4S the day it was launched. To this day (we now have iPhone 5's), she still doesn't know why we had to upgrade to the 4S.

tekno
Mar 12, 2013, 10:18 AM
I question how the conclusion in bold can be reached based on the 'S' years to date. Sounds good in theory but the 3GS and the 4S both resulted in a dramatic increases in sales.

Increase in sales (and market share) does not equal "consumers far more likely to look around at competitor products."

The 3GS and 4S may have sold more than past iPhones, but that's because the smartphone sector is still growing. Apple's market share has in fact been diminishing.

meboy
Mar 12, 2013, 10:19 AM
No.. I'm pretty sure the comment you quoted is more accurate than this.

Apple's stock level dropped because it simply cannot maintain the momentum. No company can continue to grow profits exponentially. It overpeaked, then dropped back to a realistic level. It'll grow again as they continue to print money.

kas23
Mar 12, 2013, 10:20 AM
Apple's stock level dropped because it simply cannot maintain the momentum. No company can continue to grow profits exponentially. It overpeaked, then dropped back to a realistic level. It'll grow again as they continue to print money.

But people on here expected them to, which is nuts. The $700 price tag was based on exponential growth of a now ubiquitous product. It is no longer experiencing that type of growth, which was inevitable. But people still wonder why the stock plunged. As I have said before, we will see it dip below $400 within the next 6 months. I'll buy at that point.

As for innovation, based on prior Apple sales and the products they are selling, "innovation" is overrated.

sfoalex
Mar 12, 2013, 10:22 AM
Some old ***** every time. Boring...

Carlanga
Mar 12, 2013, 10:23 AM
Do you think the average iPhone owner knows that though? I don't think so. All of us on this website (which is a tiny sliver of iPhone owners) do, but the average consumer has no idea. For an example, my wife and I jumped from the iPhone 4 to 4S the day it was launched. To this day (we now have iPhone 5's), she still doesn't know why we had to upgrade to the 4S.

Yes I agree, but the article said no major internal changes to make his/her point.

tekno
Mar 12, 2013, 10:24 AM
Apple's 'iPhone 5S Problem' Suggests Need to Be Less Predictable

Is it just me or does this title make no sense?

Carlanga
Mar 12, 2013, 10:24 AM
Some old ***** every time. Boring...

go to android then, GL :cool:

baryon
Mar 12, 2013, 10:25 AM
I'm glad that Apple at least doesn't innovate just for the sake of surprising people. That's what everyone does, and while people are always hypnotized by new features and want them at all cost, they don't realize that most of these features either don't work well enough, aren't useful or aren't something they need or would use at any point in time.

I like the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" approach, if you have a great product that works perfectly and does everything that it should (but not all kinds of unnecessary things that may look cool but don't actually do much), then there's not much to innovate. There isn't regularly a need for new ideas, unless you're a bored rich kid.

The expectation of being constantly flooded by new features doesn't come from the need for new features. It comes from boredom and people not knowing what to do with themselves and their money.

Phones are now like computers, and need to keep getting faster to stay where they are, hence the "S" releases. It's necessary because software gets more demanding without boundaries. That leaves 2 years to come up with useful ideas which may then become things that actually make life better.

I'd rather Apple stay focused on making great products than trying to rival others who drown people in new features that most people won't ever use, yet it's the number one cause of them buying the thing in the first place. Just because people are stupid doesn't mean your product should be stupid too.


The world is accelerating and lately you can't buy anything that won't be obsolete and slow in 2-3 years. It's more pronounced with phones than anything, and I don't think making them obsolete even faster is a good idea.

Rogifan
Mar 12, 2013, 10:27 AM
Sorry I though it was a rambling post and he kept repeating himself without ever offering what he thinks Apple should do.

BaldiMac
Mar 12, 2013, 10:27 AM
The iPhone 5... is literally no different than the 4s.

I don't think that means what you think it means.

The 3GS and 4S may have sold more than past iPhones, but that's because the smartphone sector is still growing. Apple's market share has in fact been diminishing.

That's not true. iPhone market share increased significantly after the release of each of those products. Contrary to the popular story line, iPhone market share increased from 2011 to 2012.

Raftysworld
Mar 12, 2013, 10:29 AM
Why are we calling it the iPhone 5S? Is the name confirmed? It's technically the 7th generation iPhone

Iamjhil
Mar 12, 2013, 10:30 AM
The phones a phone.. It's all about the next iOS in my opinion.

Isn't there suppose to be an Apple event in March?

ghettochris
Mar 12, 2013, 10:31 AM
You neglect to mention that Apple's stock is half of what it was six months ago while the rest of the stock market has skyrocketed.

that just means it's a good time to buy :cool:

people love to hate apple, and think the last innovative successful thing they did was the last... ipod, iPhone, now ipad. maybe ipad was the last, but i doubt it. history has a way of repeating itself. apple haters make it possible to make $$ with AAPL :D:apple:

daneoni
Mar 12, 2013, 10:32 AM
The iPhone 5 design is the most pristine example of laziness. It is literally no different than the 4s.. mostly because developers don't have the incentive to utilize the extra processing power on the device due to limits of the OS. I could sell my 32GB 4s and pay roughly $100 for a 5s equivalent - but I have no desire to do that. The 5s isn't going to be worth $100 to me. Apple's stock is half of what it was 6 months ago, and it's because the company is no longer innovative, not that people can predict what they are doing.

That word doesn't mean what you think it means and you're using it lazily.

Also Apple's stock is half what it used to be because of analysts spewing bullcrap plus a trigger happy stock market that believes everything it hears. Nothing else.

Samsung is probably about to release a GSIV that is identical to the GSIII (http://www.theverge.com/2013/3/12/4093048/galaxy-s-4-video-leak-rumor) in terms of external design. Same curved plastic shell with fake metal accents. Yet no one will moan about that, in fact they will sell millions and most will hail it as the best smartphone in the market. But with Apple its "they're not innovating, they're boring" blah blah blah.

How about you guys come up with a revolutionary idea every 6 months and lets see how you fare.

I'm not saying Apple is perfect, far from it but a lot of people seem to be in over their heads and no longer recognise reality.

Personally i can't wait till Apple buys back their stock and all the complainers move to Android/Samsung. Then it'll be back to the specific segment of the market that Apple has always catered to from the start and everyone will move on.

Bartboy919
Mar 12, 2013, 10:35 AM
Not trying to toll, but I felt burned by the iPhone 4S, which is what led me to android. This is a problem, whether Apple wants to acknowledge it or not.

BaldiMac
Mar 12, 2013, 10:36 AM
Not trying to toll, but I felt burned by the iPhone 4S, which is what led me to android. This is a problem, whether Apple wants to acknowledge it or not.

Why? Are you Apple's biggest customer? :D

jdoll021
Mar 12, 2013, 10:37 AM
Maybe it's just me, but I like the predictability. I like being able to know when they'll release a new design or a refined design (I consider the S designs a refinement). I recently upgraded from the 4 to the 4S mostly because I wanted a phone that had a more refined design over a previous gen. I will get the 5S when it comes out because it will be more refined than the 5. I think that most people who like or love Apple and their products will appreciate the predictability and only folks who are a bit more flippant will want to leave for Android phones. After all, as has been pointed out, Apple is still the most profitable!

paul4339
Mar 12, 2013, 10:49 AM
... Apple's stock is half of what it was 6 months ago, and it's because the company is no longer innovative, not that people can predict what they are doing.

Regardless of whether one believes apple is innovative enough, I don't see how lack of innovation translate directly to stock price.
It would make more sense if lack of innovation drives Sales which is reflected in Earnings (or forecasted earnings) which drives Stock price. BUT, the sales and earnings have been doing well and steadily increasing.

Another explanation is the belief - 'I don't see new features in the product that I believe will increase sales so I fear that future products will not sell, and therefore I will not pay much for the stock'. That may be true, but it's unsubstantiated, since Apple's sales track record has shown that it's much more probable that it will do well than not.

It also shows that sell side analysts and pundits are not always qualified to determine what will or won't sell in the tech arena.

.

Bartboy919
Mar 12, 2013, 10:49 AM
Why? Are you Apple's biggest customer? :D

I'm still relatively young (22), but I have owned a Macbook, a Macbook Pro, a iPhone 3GS, and an iPhone 4S, not to mention the countless people I know personally that have come to me for tech advice, and pushed them towards Apple.

The iPhone 4S's absurd lack of LTE, and same small screen size, and just general sameness in the iOS when coming from the 3GS made me just feel like, why the hell did I buy this? Don't get me wrong, I love my 3GS, and I actually still use it as an iPod Touch in my car for Podcasts and Music, but everything I could do on my 4S, I could more or less do on the 3GS. Which is why I sold it on Ebay 4 months after owning it, and jumped onto a Galaxy Note.

I still use my MBP, and probably will continue to, but phone wise, that absurd release just left me feeling burned towards the whole iOS lineup.

EDIT: If you bring up Siri, well, lets just say, its the feature advertised the most, which is used the least. It became more a problem when I was in my college classes, with the damn device muted, it would continue to think I was putting the phone up to my ear, and make a bunch of noise.

BaldiMac
Mar 12, 2013, 10:52 AM
I'm still relatively young (22), but I have owned a Macbook, a Macbook Pro, a iPhone 3GS, and an iPhone 4S, not to mention the countless people I know personally that have come to me for tech advice, and pushed them towards Apple.

The iPhone 4S's absurd lack of LTE, and same small screen size, and just general sameness in the iOS when coming from the 3GS made me just feel like, why the hell did I buy this? Don't get me wrong, I love my 3GS, and I actually still use it as an iPod Touch in my car for Podcasts and Music, but everything I could do on my 4S, I could more or less do on the 3GS. Which is why I sold it on Ebay 4 months after owning it, and jumped onto a Galaxy Note.

I still use my MBP, and probably will continue to, but phone wise, that absurd release just left me feeling burned towards the whole iOS lineup.

Maybe you missed my point. That's a lovely personal anecdote, but it's not a significant problem for Apple. Believe it or not, I doubt Apple's goal is 100% market share in the smartphone market.

iBug2
Mar 12, 2013, 10:58 AM
but everything I could do on my 4S, I could more or less do on the 3GS.

Thanks to Apple supporting iOS 5 on 3GS. How is this bad?

----------

Maybe you missed my point. That's a lovely personal anecdote, but it's not a significant problem for Apple. Believe it or not, I doubt Apple's goal is 100% market share in the smartphone market.

It isn't. People tend to forget that Apple covers less than 10% of the PC marketshare, yet they are king of profits on that market as well. As long as Apple keeps selling phones like they do today, even if their marketshare diminishes from 40% to 10%, they will still be making more money than anyone else. Look at their cash income, more than 40 billion in 2012. If it goes like this, in less than 2 years they'll even have money to buy off Microsoft or Google let alone continue their day to day operations.

KentuckyHouse
Mar 12, 2013, 10:59 AM
Why are we calling it the iPhone 5S? Is the name confirmed? It's technically the 7th generation iPhone

Oh lord...:rolleyes:

Folks, get ready for months of these types of posts. Jeez, I can't STAND "S" years. :mad:

jdoll021
Mar 12, 2013, 10:59 AM
Maybe you missed my point. That's a lovely personal anecdote, but it's not a significant problem for Apple. Believe it or not, I doubt Apple's goal is 100% market share in the smartphone market.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Why does anyone think Apple, or any company for that matter, needs to have 100% market share of a market? That is the antithesis of competition and the very definition of a monopoly.

Bartboy919
Mar 12, 2013, 11:05 AM
Maybe you missed my point. That's a lovely personal anecdote, but it's not a significant problem for Apple. Believe it or not, I doubt Apple's goal is 100% market share in the smartphone market.

My story may be an anecdote, but that doesn't mean I'm the only one who has jumped ship. Thinking otherwise would be detrimental for Apple.

Thanks to Apple supporting iOS 5 on 3GS. How is this bad?

My statement regarding the sameness of iOS has just been a general statement on the state of the Software. The look and feel hasn't even been refreshed since 2007. Mac OS X has had more UI revisions than iOS, and Android regularly refreshes its UI.

The OS updates were great, the problem was the OS itself.

iGrip
Mar 12, 2013, 11:09 AM
Apple's approach of maintaining the same external casing and largely unchanged internal components in its 'S' models limits the innovation that can be offered, making consumers far more likely to look around at competitor products in 'S' years, giving competitors a great opportunity to launch major new models.




I believe that the best selling iPhone EVER is an S model - the 4S.

I'm not sure if this analyst analyzed the actual sales numbers for S models as compared to the corresponding base models, but my guess is that each S model outsold the original by a wide margin.

----------

They can't win, if they break release cycle like they did with the iPad then people on here feel cheated because their latest shiny isn't the latest shiny.

A few fanatics feel that way. The vast majority of normal people (i.e., Apple's target demographic) don't have any idea of when the last one/next one came out/is coming out.

bushido
Mar 12, 2013, 11:13 AM
boring OS is boring

- sent from my 5th iPhone

dampfnudel
Mar 12, 2013, 11:14 AM
Do you think the average iPhone owner knows that though? I don't think so. All of us on this website (which is a tiny sliver of iPhone owners) do, but the average consumer has no idea. For an example, my wife and I jumped from the iPhone 4 to 4S the day it was launched. To this day (we now have iPhone 5's), she still doesn't know why we had to upgrade to the 4S.

Are you upgrading to the 5S?

jayducharme
Mar 12, 2013, 11:17 AM
The iPhone 5 design is the most pristine example of laziness.

The iPhone 4 and 4S were the biggest selling products in Apple's history. The form factor seemed to work for people. So why screw it up? The 5 is a bit different, but not enough to break with their successful formula. For me the biggest change is the weight and materials. It's much less prone to breakage now and has better functionality. I'm perfectly happy with it.

I think part of Apple's difficulty is that nearly every other company is imitating the look and functionality of the iPhone (something Apple seems unable to stop), but undercutting Apple on price. So many people are drifting toward the cheaper products thinking they're getting more for their money. Even so, Apple still seems to be doing okay.

InYou101
Mar 12, 2013, 11:17 AM
Competitors are catching up with the iPhone because there hasn't been anything new in a while other than an unattractive dark metal on a longer phone which is just as thick as the previous few years. I am not looking forward for an iPhone 5S with a better chip, camera, and battery lol.. For the first time since I bought my first iPhone I am starting to see what the competition is doing and maybe I might switch to Samsung or some other who are providing innovation. We can all agree there hasn't been a WOW factor in design or program with Apple in quite a while.

baleensavage
Mar 12, 2013, 11:17 AM
The phones a phone.. It's all about the next iOS in my opinion.
This is a big part of it that isn't mentioned in the article. The endless spec war that has taken over the Android phone market is only part of the equation. In reality, the biggest reason Android phones have taken off in the last couple years is because Google has slowly and steadily been improving Android itself, to the point where it is now a very polished OS and in some ways is better than iOS. Apple on the other hand has done very little to actually improve iOS with the exception of adding new features like Siri and adding apps like Maps.

Whether Apple releases an iPhone 5S or 6 is irrelevant if they don't do something revolutionary with iOS.

The other part of this is Apple screwed themselves when they used the "S" moniker the first time. They basically told the world that their phone was only half as cool as the last one. It's all psychological. They should just ditch the numbers like they did with the iPad and let each iteration stand on it's own. Imagine if they had called the iPad 4, the iPad 3S. People would have said Apple wasn't innovating because they didn't release a new iPad. Apple purposely lowered expectations. Maybe it was intentional and worked at the time, but they don't need to be lowering expectations at this point in the game.

notabadname
Mar 12, 2013, 11:17 AM
You neglect to mention that Apple's stock is half of what it was six months ago while the rest of the stock market has skyrocketed.

And you confuse stock value and fluctuations with a company's profitability.

Jan 4, 1013: During the Q1 2013 earnings call, which took place today in California, Tim Cook revealed that Apple has sold more iPhones and iPads than ever before, making September to December last year the most successful three-month period since the company started trading.

SpyderBite
Mar 12, 2013, 11:18 AM
TApple's stock is half of what it was 6 months ago, and it's because the company is no longer innovative, not that people can predict what they are doing.

You are the Golden Child example of somebody who has absolutely no idea how the stick market works. In fact, when I was at Schwab we used to call investors who shared your logic, Kamikazes.

RMferrer
Mar 12, 2013, 11:19 AM
I'm glad that Apple at least doesn't innovate just for the sake of surprising people. That's what everyone does, and while people are always hypnotized by new features and want them at all cost, they don't realize that most of these features either don't work well enough, aren't useful or aren't something they need or would use at any point in time.



Siri?

Soliber
Mar 12, 2013, 11:30 AM
What about Siri?
I find it very useful in the kitchen or in the car, where I can just tell her to set a timer or call someone without having to use my hands :-p

Mr.damien
Mar 12, 2013, 11:30 AM
Just as next any of the next Samsung device can't be guessed ... :rolleyes:

So let me guess, after the Galaxy 4, the Galaxy 5. With more cpu, more memory and more **** in it.

wow, they are so unpredictable.

wkadamsjr
Mar 12, 2013, 11:38 AM
No.. I'm pretty sure the comment you quoted is more accurate than this.

I'm pretty sure you are just caving to analyst opinions, just like the rest of the stock market.

iBug2
Mar 12, 2013, 11:50 AM
My statement regarding the sameness of iOS has just been a general statement on the state of the Software. The look and feel hasn't even been refreshed since 2007. Mac OS X has had more UI revisions than iOS, and Android regularly refreshes its UI.

The OS updates were great, the problem was the OS itself.

If it works why break it? Maybe the reason Android is seeing regularly refreshed UI's is that the UI wasn't that good to begin with?

I'd love some new features on iOS that are missing but I'm generally happy with the UI.

theluggage
Mar 12, 2013, 11:52 AM
The 5 is a bit different, but not enough to break with their successful formula.

Reasons why people might be disappointed with the 5 :

- The lightning connector may pay dividends in the future, but initially it just meant that many of those 30-pin accessories were much less convenient. If Apple had been at the top of their game, they'd have made a 30-pin-to-lightning adapter designed to sit in a dock.

- Maps debacle around the time of the launch.
- iCloud sucks unless you use it precisely the way Apple intended,
- Android getting its act together and spending less time making iPhone knock-offs and more time offering interesting alternatives like phablets and stylii at one end, and small cheap alternatives at the other. Apple clings to one-size-fits-all.

Hard evidence that this has happened (beyond much whinge^H^H^H^H lively debate on MacRumors) not explicable by the stock market playing pump-and-short:

*crickets*

As for the "S" cycle, that cuts two ways - one of the pains about other gadget manufacturers is that by the time their new shiny is actually in stock in a shop near you, they've started waving the next version around at trade shows. The danger is, people continually put off buying decisions of non-essentials like phones.

I think its quite reassuring to buy a new device knowing (a) you'll usually be able to get it as soon as it is launched and (b) you have 2 years before it gets replaced by a completely new design and people start kicking sand in your face - or you can ride the S cycle and only upgrade after each new design has got over its teething troubles.

A 2-year cycle also fits particularly well with people getting their phones on contract.

kas23
Mar 12, 2013, 11:54 AM
Are you upgrading to the 5S?

I have bought pretty much every iPhone since the 3G, but will be holding off on the 5S this time. In hindsight, there really wasn't any reason to jump from 4 to 4S, but I got caught up in the hype.

The jump to the 5 was justified by the change to LTE alone. I really don't think NFC or a fingerprint sensor will cause for me to upgrade though. The only thing I buy on a daily basis is coffee from Starbucks. I can already scan my phone to do this. As for the non-purchasing functions of NFC, those are still a couple years off. A finger scanner would be a pure gimmick, nothing more.

aliensporebomb
Mar 12, 2013, 12:00 PM
We could say the same thing about Fender and their guitars - the stratocaster hasn't changed in almost 60 years! 3 single coil pickups, vintage tremelo, same design that hasn't changed.

Yet it's still unbelievably popular and they must sell more models of that guitar than anything they make. They make dozens of variations for every concievable type of electric guitar player but it fundamentally hasn't changed much. The shapes are the same.

I think the iPhone is turning into Apple's "Stratocaster".

That being said, I think the iPhone5 was a little underappreciated - it really is quite a nice piece of kit but maybe it isn't different ENOUGH from the previous models to differentiate itself.

But if it's too different, you start to deviate from what people are comfortable with. So they're damned if they do and damned if they don't (probably why some of the 1980s "Heavy Metal" stratocasters didn't fare so well after the 80s music trend receded).

With the 5s if it's going to have the same case they could add another color tint such as gold, more straight gray, something different. People like to show off their new phone and differentiate it from the previous models.

It's called pride in ownership.

I'm sure Samsung will sell a million of these new phones but it suffers some of the same issues with the appearance as their previious model.

As time goes by, it may be a bigger issue for them. "Why isn't Samsung doing anything DIFFERENT?"

AppleInLVX
Mar 12, 2013, 12:01 PM
Ok Apple, surprise us this year!

Been pretty damned quiet in Cupertino so far.

thehustleman
Mar 12, 2013, 12:06 PM
Samsung seems to have the same cheap looking plastic casing on their flagship Galaxy line every year. Why is the burden on Apple to top their already impressive designs every year for the simple sake of letting people know they have the newest gear.

The one big aspect of the Galaxy line that drives the average consumer to make a purchase is it's screen size. Apple may or may not address that with a larger iPhone in the future.


There's also the fact that it has more capability, better keyboard options, better text app options, more app categories, more freedom, just an all around better user experience experience because the user can choose what happens with the phone, do they want to just use the phone as is right out the box, great. Do they want to tweak? Do it. They have every user in mind.

With that said, iphone is a nice phone, for a while it was the BEST phone. No iphone hate, but Apple should really offer more options. Options do not = complexity

B4U
Mar 12, 2013, 12:08 PM
Predictable is bad. Yet people got all pissed off at iPad 4 last year.
Apple can't simply please everyone...

BaldiMac
Mar 12, 2013, 12:09 PM
My story may be an anecdote, but that doesn't mean I'm the only one who has jumped ship. Thinking otherwise would be detrimental for Apple.

Sure, but more people have jumped on the ship than off the ship.

My statement regarding the sameness of iOS has just been a general statement on the state of the Software. The look and feel hasn't even been refreshed since 2007. Mac OS X has had more UI revisions than iOS, and Android regularly refreshes its UI.

I wonder if some people do anything but stare at the homescreen on their iPhone. (And ignore any changes there since 2007.)

Tiger8
Mar 12, 2013, 12:10 PM
The one big aspect of the Galaxy line that drives the average consumer to make a purchase is it's screen size. Apple may or may not address that with a larger iPhone in the future.

Absolutely not true. I have a lot of friends who did the switch to the Galaxy SIII from iPhone, say what you want but it is a good phone. Bigger screen, redesign every year, more features added (rather than a row of icons).

S1 was Meh S2 was Ok but S3 is when they hit gold, in fact, Samsung themselves are feeling the pressure that Apple have felt for years, S4 needs to deliver.

thehustleman
Mar 12, 2013, 12:13 PM
Absolutely not true. I have a lot of friends who did the switch to the Galaxy SIII from iPhone, say what you want but it is a good phone. Bigger screen, redesign every year, more features added (rather than a row of icons).

S1 was Meh S2 was Ok but S3 is when they hit gold, in fact, Samsung themselves are feeling the pressure that Apple have felt for years, S4 needs to deliver.

Galaxy S I was HORRIBLE. Poor excuse for a bug ridden phone. Before the S III I hated samsung because before then all the samsungs I had were janky. I was happy with my iphone 4 and EVO 4g

nekonari
Mar 12, 2013, 12:15 PM
I'm glad that Apple at least doesn't innovate just for the sake of surprising people. That's what everyone does, and while people are always hypnotized by new features and want them at all cost, they don't realize that most of these features either don't work well enough, aren't useful or aren't something they need or would use at any point in time.

Exactly how I feel. People always look for something new and shiny, no matter how irrelevant those are. Sure, new things are exciting and they're something to talk about and look at, but they should be added only if they add true value to the overall experience of using the phone. New features should be a means to a simpler, easier daily life, not the end by themselves.

People call me and other Apple fans "iSheep", when in fact they're the ones who're addicted with adrenaline rush they get with new, glittery gimmicks.

QCassidy352
Mar 12, 2013, 12:16 PM
The iPhone 5 design is the most pristine example of laziness. It is literally no different than the 4s.. mostly because developers don't have the incentive to utilize the extra processing power on the device due to limits of the OS. I could sell my 32GB 4s and pay roughly $100 for a 5s equivalent - but I have no desire to do that. The 5s isn't going to be worth $100 to me. Apple's stock is half of what it was 6 months ago, and it's because the company is no longer innovative, not that people can predict what they are doing.

First, as others have said, the design is different. You don't know what "literally" means. Second, the 5 is a very big step forward from the 4s. They actually improved basically every part of the phone - screen, processor, ram, graphics, wifi, cellular, bigger yet lighter, etc. The 5s will be another small step forward on top of that. All in all, a massive upgrade from your 4s. Whether you need it or not is another question entirely.

pubwvj
Mar 12, 2013, 12:16 PM
This is a pretty useless article and useless rationalizing. It is based on the very poor assumption that I as a consumer would want to switch to another platform and ignores the high value and integration of the MacOS/iOS platform. This also totally fails to value my time as a consumer. I'm not looking for the entertainment (NOT) of learning a new device's quirks. I have real world work I want to get done and the Mac, iPad, iPhone, iPodTouch, etc are tools. I don't want to shop around for a screwdriver with a screwing different handle. I just want to screw in my screws so I can do my stuff. Predictability is good.

rocknblogger
Mar 12, 2013, 12:22 PM
I question how the conclusion in bold can be reached based on the 'S' years to date. Sounds good in theory but the 3GS and the 4S both resulted in a dramatic increases in sales.

Increase in sales (and market share) does not equal "consumers far more likely to look around at competitor products."

Because with the 3GS and 4S Apple was well ahead of everyone. Today Android, Samsung, Winphone 8 and even Blackberry have caught up. So while Apple will release (if they stick to their past schedule) a spec and possibly a feature bump other handset makers will be releasing flagship handsets. This year it might make a difference. We won't know for while yet but 2013 will be very interesting.

iBug2
Mar 12, 2013, 12:23 PM
Because with the 3GS and 4S Apple was well ahead of everyone.

I can swear that when 4S was released, the reaction here was that it's already behind the competition.

whiteyanderson
Mar 12, 2013, 12:27 PM
Why? Are you Apple's biggest customer? :D

No he's not, but he's a representation of millions upon millions of people. And don't get me wrong, I have the iPhone 5 and an use nothing but Apple in my house and biz. To discount him though is incredibly short-sighted. Because as said, he represents many, many others who feel the same way. So in a sense he IS one Apple's biggest customers. The customers that they are losing.

We can now queue up the ridiculous "Apple doesn't need your business" posts in 3...2...1...

applefanDrew
Mar 12, 2013, 12:27 PM
Meanwhile, the Galaxy S4 is an "S" upgrade for Samsung.

treyjustice
Mar 12, 2013, 12:30 PM
I've had every iPhone starting at the 3G and have loved them all. I've tried a few android handsets as well. Always annoys me when people complain. If you don't like the product then don't buy it. Try something new. No need to complain cause I assure you apple doesn't care.

BaldiMac
Mar 12, 2013, 12:33 PM
Because with the 3GS and 4S Apple was well ahead of everyone. Today Android, Samsung, Winphone 8 and even Blackberry have caught up. So while Apple will release (if they stick to their past schedule) a spec and possibly a feature bump other handset makers will be releasing flagship handsets. This year it might make a difference. We won't know for while yet but 2013 will be very interesting.

:confused: Those are some pretty convenient assumptions there. :D

----------

No he's not, but he's a representation of millions upon millions of people. And don't get me wrong, I have the iPhone 5 and an use nothing but Apple in my house and biz. To discount him though is incredibly short-sighted. Because as said, he represents many, many others who feel the same way. So in a sense he IS one Apple's biggest customers. The customers that they are losing.

And what about the millions upon millions of people represented by the consumer who is switching to the iPhone? Because there are more of those.

Tankmaze
Mar 12, 2013, 12:43 PM
Apple should just rename it iPhone only, and name it based on the generation.

Rene's article is making the low cost iPhone much more sense in todays mobile device competition.

SockRolid
Mar 12, 2013, 12:55 PM
... Apple's approach of maintaining the same external casing and largely unchanged internal components in its 'S' models limits the innovation that can be offered, making consumers far more likely to look around at competitor products in 'S' years ...

1. Most consumers in the U.S. (Apple's largest market by sales) are on 2-year contracts with their carriers. Therefore, every year, only about half of us are realistically in the market for a new iPhone. Only off-contract subscribers and first-time smartphone buyers have the freedom to "look around" without facing a heavy early termination fee. Apple knows that most people will not pay the ETF every single year, even if there were a radically new iPhone every year. Hence the "tick / tock" model releases.

2. Those of us who are on the even year contract cycle have enjoyed an extra year of "freshness" in terms of exterior iPhone styling. I bought a 3G in 2008 and it still looked up-to-date in 2009. Same with the 4 I bought in 2010. Looked up-to-date right up until September 2012 when the 5 was released. (No, looks aren't everything, but the common tick-tock exterior design helped maintain the resale value of even-year iPhones.)

3. Apple's ecosystem adds huge value to iPhone, and also helps to encourage repeat sales. If you spend a few hundred bucks on apps, music, and movies in the Apple ecosystem over the years, you're going to be less likely to consider switching.

... Ritchie points to the range of rumors circulating around potential new products from Apple, and says that while all are unlikely to be true, "breaking patterns and challenging expectations is just one way to solve that problem".

Some time in the near future, the "problem" will go away because we'll reach a point where iPhone and its Samsung copies have all achieved fantastic battery life, hardware features, thinness, lightness, screen resolution, CPU power, low cost, and anything else that will be appropriate for a smartphone. That's when the pattern will really be broken. Happened with iPod, and it will happen with iPhone.

Yes, there will continue to be technical advances ad infinitum, but they will mostly be driven by increasing bandwidth as carriers move from LTE to "real 4G" and beyond. In the meantime, over maybe the next 5 years or so, the tick-tock strategy should work just fine for Apple.

dvoros
Mar 12, 2013, 12:57 PM
In case you haven't figured this out yet, the "s" line stands for "****". This article was spot on. Apple, by going with the "s" line every other year, just continues to fall behind in the innovation taking place by other companies with smartphones. It will be fall 2014 before someone in Apples says, "Hey, maybe we should put out a phone with a larger screen, longer battery life, better camera, eye-scrolling software, etc.".. Meanwhile, Samsung will be launching its next series on the planet Mars and laughing all the way to the bank.:mad:

charlituna
Mar 12, 2013, 01:01 PM
Isn't this one of the problems that was supposedly going to be solved by ditching Macworld?

It was more about it being a schedule set by someone they didn't control. At least if they are setting the tick and the tock they can change it when needed. Like they did with the iPhone 4s and the iPad 4.

Bartboy919
Mar 12, 2013, 01:02 PM
I can swear that when 4S was released, the reaction here was that it's already behind the competition.

Lack of LTE was incredibly disappointing to me. The fact that they had the gall to promote HSPA+ and not even MENTION LTE was deeply saddening to me.

charlituna
Mar 12, 2013, 01:04 PM
We've been conditioned to want things to be predictable and consistent from Apple. Look how much uproar there was when Apple abandoned the 30-pin connector.

I think they would get far more criticism for radically altering their product year-to-year than the criticism for not innovating enough.

actually no, because then folks would scream about how what they just bought is 'obsolete'. and they would open themselves up for negatives about every little flaw and how they shouldn't have changed so much so fast because they couldn't keep up with quality control

basically no matter what Apple does someone with a big mouth and a blog to talk on isn't happy and thinks they are losing it and should close up now

----------

You neglect to mention that Apple's stock is half of what it was six months ago while the rest of the stock market has skyrocketed.

Much of that was due to the analysts bad mouthing Apple and how it was going to fall any moment so get out while there was this kill profit to be made. So folks listened and did

BaldiMac
Mar 12, 2013, 01:04 PM
In case you haven't figured this out yet, the "s" line stands for "****". This article was spot on. Apple, by going with the "s" line every other year, just continues to fall behind in the innovation taking place by other companies with smartphones.

Because the only innovation in smartphones is redesigning the case! :D

Bartboy919
Mar 12, 2013, 01:06 PM
:confused: Those are some pretty convenient assumptions there. :D

----------



And what about the millions upon millions of people represented by the consumer who is switching to the iPhone? Because there are more of those.

Android has a solid majority of of US Smartphone marketshare: http://cdn.macrumors.com/article-new/2013/03/comScore-Reports-January-2013-U.S.-Smartphone-Subscriber-Market-Share-comScore-Inc-1.jpg

While they may be the biggest manufacturer, way more people are using android devices than Apple devices. They need to move people from Android to iOS, and power users like me are migrating.

UnfetteredMind
Mar 12, 2013, 01:07 PM
They can't win, if they break release cycle like they did with the iPad then people on here feel cheated because their latest shiny isn't the latest shiny.

And they will be sued for "obsoleting" the prior product too quickly (and breaking their normal product release schedule).

mono1980
Mar 12, 2013, 01:08 PM
The iPhone 5 design is the most pristine example of laziness. It is literally no different than the 4s.. mostly because developers don't have the incentive to utilize the extra processing power on the device due to limits of the OS. I could sell my 32GB 4s and pay roughly $100 for a 5s equivalent - but I have no desire to do that. The 5s isn't going to be worth $100 to me. Apple's stock is half of what it was 6 months ago, and it's because the company is no longer innovative, not that people can predict what they are doing.

This is total BS. Developers don't utilize the extra processing power, because they want to make apps that work great on the iPhone 4 and 4S as well as the iPod Touch. It has nothing to do with laziness or a on the developer's part or Apple's. Frankly, the iPhone 4 and 4S processor's are "fast enough". Most people would gladly trade some processing power for better battery life at this point.

eiuro
Mar 12, 2013, 01:09 PM
It's funny how it's always up to apple to innovate and show the world the next best thing. People demand too much from apple because their number 1. I keep hearing people say their iphone or iPad is obsolete after a few months when they release new ones. Thats the dumbest thing i've ever heard. Is your car obsolete after a 3 year lease?? NO of course not. As long as it still drives and works properly it's not obsolete. Obsolete means.. you can no longer using with existing products or it doesn't work for your new way of living. My wife went from her original iPhone to the iphone just as the iphone 4s was released. She didn't think it was obsolete because she was still able to do everything she normally could do. Samsung makes cheaper phones loaded with features that are subpar or useless at best. They make a million phones yet they are scratching and fighting with a company that makes 2 phones per year. Apple should sit back, take their time and keep making QUALITY products. They don't have to worry about competition because the truth is... if they really wanted to kill all competition they'd make a really cheap $100 phone and say buy buy to google, samsung and windows phones.

Colpeas
Mar 12, 2013, 01:15 PM
Apple's approach of maintaining the same external casing and largely unchanged internal components in its 'S' models limits the innovation that can be offered, making consumers far more likely to look around at competitor products in 'S' years, giving competitors a great opportunity to launch major new models.

Well, I always prefer the tweaked "S" model over the newest generation. So this rule doesn't work universally.

Also I find it ridiculous how is innovation connected to change of design these days. Nowadays, people want to have the newest and the best device on the market and, for some reason, need to let others know that they have it. How pathetic... :rolleyes:

The iPhone could look the same for all I care as long as it provides good user experience. I am quite content with its current design. Hell, I was content even with the previous! Now I am on the 4S and won't be upgrading as long as it copes with daily work.

charlituna
Mar 12, 2013, 01:21 PM
I question how the conclusion in bold can be reached based on the 'S' years to date.

It also misses the point that most folks don't update their phone every year but rather every other year when their contract is up. So there is really no need to have a huge change year after year but every two years. The 4 to the 4s not a big change but the 4 to a 5 was. 3gs to the 4 wasn't but 3gs to 4s was. and so on.

----------

The iPhone 5 design is the most pristine example of laziness. It is literally no different than the 4s..

how so? the 5 is physically taller and thinner with a totally different enclosure material. It has a different camera in terms of the new low light sensor if not also MP count. etc.

so how is it 'no different'

----------

Is it just me or does this title make no sense?

it makes little sense to me either. If Apple was completely unpredictable they would lose sales from those that are always scared they will buy something and something better will turn up a month later.

if they are on a roughly set schedule folks know there's less change if that happening and will just jump in when they need something.

BaldiMac
Mar 12, 2013, 01:22 PM
Android has a solid majority of of US Smartphone marketshare: http://cdn.macrumors.com/article-new/2013/03/comScore-Reports-January-2013-U.S.-Smartphone-Subscriber-Market-Share-comScore-Inc-1.jpg

I'm not sure what your point is here. Apple is growing. Android is shrinking. Apple has a solid majority among the big 3 US carriers that it supports if we are just bringing up random facts about the US market.

While they may be the biggest manufacturer, way more people are using android devices than Apple devices.

Yep.

They need to move people from Android to iOS, and power users like me are migrating.

And more people are migrating to iOS than away from iOS. Why do you keep ignoring that fact?

charlituna
Mar 12, 2013, 01:29 PM
The iPhone 4S's absurd lack of LTE,


not absurd when there wasn't massive and stable carrier support at that time


and same small screen size, and just general sameness in the iOS when coming from the 3GS made me just feel like, why the hell did I buy this?


a reaction had by tech geeks that want bright and shiny and new but often not shared by the common masses who are scared of having to relearn everything over and over. They generally love the sameness, especially in the OS cause it is familiar and they can operate it.

and since the common folks are a bigger audience than geeks like you, me and everyone that hangs on sites like this, guess which way they go.

If you really insist on something snazzy, jailbreak. It's not illegal etc. Sure you won't get support from Apple if you walk in with a jailbroken phone but you can remove that with a restore etc


EDIT: If you bring up Siri, well, lets just say, its the feature advertised the most, which is used the least. It became more a problem when I was in my college classes, with the damn device muted, it would continue to think I was putting the phone up to my ear, and make a bunch of noise.

Siri needs to be used for it to learn and improve so the hyping makes sense. As for the putting the phone up to your ear, that was a simple settings adjustment that a techie like you should have been able to figure out by googling after the first incident. Or even just looking in your phone's settings. As someone your friends and classmates go to for support it's dismaying to think you didn't figure it out on your own.

----------

I doubt Apple's goal is 100% market share in the smartphone market.

Every company shoots for 100%. But I agree that Apple doesn't seem to be so obsessed with that number that they will design and release just to add to their percent. Thus no 15 versions of iOS, no 20 models of the iphone etc in all possible sizes, shapes, materials and so on

Radio
Mar 12, 2013, 01:30 PM
I don't care what you haters or apple lovers say

The market has spoken and the facts say people are bored with apple

charlituna
Mar 12, 2013, 01:31 PM
Reasons why people might be disappointed with the 5 :

- The lightning connector may pay dividends in the future, but initially it just meant that many of those 30-pin accessories were much less convenient. If Apple had been at the top of their game, they'd have made a 30-pin-to-lightning adapter designed to sit in a dock.


if you understood how the lighting connector worked you'd understand why they couldn't make it any smaller than they did.

kimvette
Mar 12, 2013, 01:32 PM
I am still using an iPhone 4; I am waiting for a bigger screen, one that is wider and taller. Bigger screens do attract users It's been working to sell Android phones to former iPhone users! If I hadn't spent so much on apps, I'd jump ship to Android myself.

Dr McKay
Mar 12, 2013, 01:34 PM
And they will be sued for "obsoleting" the prior product too quickly (and breaking their normal product release schedule).

I don't get this "obsoleting". The device the people bought will continue to do what they bought it for, it will continue to receive updates and new features. It's not obsolete because one has a better processor etc.

charlituna
Mar 12, 2013, 01:35 PM
No he's not, but he's a representation of millions upon millions of people.

So exactly how did you track down all these millions upon millions of people to ask them how they feel.

Or is this just your attempt at hyperbole

iBug2
Mar 12, 2013, 01:35 PM
Every company shoots for 100%.

They most certainly don't.

charlituna
Mar 12, 2013, 01:47 PM
They most certainly don't.

Of course they do. Companies are about making money and as much money as they can, getting 100% means getting the maximum possible money and is every company's ultimate goal.

The only difference is how they aim to get there. Some do it by catering to every possibly audience, some do it by making a few really great products and trying to convince folks of that greatness. The latter plan tends to fail in reaching the goal at least in the short term but it doesn't change the ultimate end game. I think where folks get confused and think that this isn't also Apple's goal is that they have taken a public stance that they don't fear the existence of other companies and products. Nor do they fear when those products capture a portion of the share. Why should they? In the end the existing of those products validates when they are deemed the best because the ruling isn't based on their stuff being the only thing to do be had. And legally when there's competition it lessens talk of anti-trust.

Apple would love to have the whole world using their stuff, but as they deem to make it. Not by making something different to suit each possible audience of desires like some companies do.

----------

I don't get this "obsoleting". The device the people bought will continue to do what they bought it for, it will continue to receive updates and new features. It's not obsolete because one has a better processor etc.

It's a psychological thing. Our egos are pumped by having the best of the best. When something better comes out, our egos take a hit. When we see other folks with that better thing, our egos take a hit. Double when that better comes at the same cost. We feel like we didn't get as much value for our money and were 'scammed'

baryon
Mar 12, 2013, 01:52 PM
Siri?

I think Siri is quite good and useful. Usually voice command has always sucked in every phone before Siri and Google, and the only point of it was to impress your friends at the pub. Siri is a feature that really does work so I wouldn't say it was a pointless and gimmicky one. Plus it's a software feature, so in theory it doesn't require you to get a new device, though Apple did impose limitations on that for some reason.

BaldiMac
Mar 12, 2013, 01:53 PM
Of course they do. Companies are about making money and as much money as they can, getting 100% means getting the maximum possible money and is every company's ultimate goal.

The only difference is how they aim to get there. Some do it by catering to every possibly audience, some do it by making a few really great products and trying to convince folks of that greatness. The latter plan tends to fail in reaching the goal at least in the short term but it doesn't change the ultimate end game. I think where folks get confused and think that this isn't also Apple's goal is that they have taken a public stance that they don't fear the existence of other companies and products. Nor do they fear when those products capture a portion of the share. Why should they? In the end the existing of those products validates when they are deemed the best because the ruling isn't based on their stuff being the only thing to do be had. And legally when there's competition it lessens talk of anti-trust.

Apple would love to have the whole world using their stuff, but as they deem to make it. Not by making something different to suit each possible audience of desires like some companies do.

I think you are just arguing semantics here. There is a difference between a wish that you have no intention of achieving and an actual goal.

Bartboy919
Mar 12, 2013, 01:55 PM
not absurd when there wasn't massive and stable carrier support at that time



a reaction had by tech geeks that want bright and shiny and new but often not shared by the common masses who are scared of having to relearn everything over and over. They generally love the sameness, especially in the OS cause it is familiar and they can operate it.

and since the common folks are a bigger audience than geeks like you, me and everyone that hangs on sites like this, guess which way they go.

If you really insist on something snazzy, jailbreak. It's not illegal etc. Sure you won't get support from Apple if you walk in with a jailbroken phone but you can remove that with a restore etc



Siri needs to be used for it to learn and improve so the hyping makes sense. As for the putting the phone up to your ear, that was a simple settings adjustment that a techie like you should have been able to figure out by googling after the first incident. Or even just looking in your phone's settings. As someone your friends and classmates go to for support it's dismaying to think you didn't figure it out on your own.[COLOR="#808080"]



Your LTE argument is weak, Verizon had an LTE network since the start of the year, and AT&T was ramping it up right around the time the iPhone 4S was released, and covered a majority of people in the state Apple and I both reside, California, less than three months after it was released.

And yeah, I knew how to solve the siri pocket problem. I turned the "raise to ear for siri" option off. Then I just turned the whole damn thing off, because I never used it.

akbarali.ch
Mar 12, 2013, 02:05 PM
Seriously? People like you give iPhone people a bad rap.

The S1, S2 and S3. They all look pretty different to me. Let alone the major changes in hardware/software through those models.

Compared to the 3, 4, and 5 Samsung and Android have moved in leaps and bounds. Well beyond the iPhone and iOS.

what you talking about, leaps and bound? in what ? screen size is the only things i see...battery is still better in iphone comapred to android, all the latest games and apps run smoothly in 2 year old iphone 4 also...malware free. i took an andoird phone of a friend, i clicked an image, it gave me option to 2-3 apps to open in ....iphone just opens it...

at present Android and iphone are just matter of choice. they both doing good. But leaps and bound? hell no.

what did change in s1 to s2 to s3

processor, os , memory, screensize thats same for iphone too... leaps n bound ?

thefourthpope
Mar 12, 2013, 02:06 PM
For me it's a problem of contracts and upgrades. Even if apple released a truly new phone every single year, I'm stuck in a two-year cycle between upgrades imposed by AT&T. I switch my iPhone every two years, and it just happens to hit the 'S' refresh.
I like that regularity. Helps me plan. And we can also enjoy the ramping up of rumors and excitement before the events, though that's been diminished lately with all the leaks.

Karma*Police
Mar 12, 2013, 02:07 PM
Samsung seems to have the same cheap looking plastic casing on their flagship Galaxy line every year. Why is the burden on Apple to top their already impressive designs every year for the simple sake of letting people know they have the newest gear.

The one big aspect of the Galaxy line that drives the average consumer to make a purchase is it's screen size. Apple may or may not address that with a larger iPhone in the future.

Couldn't agree more. People just have unrealistic expectations when it comes to Apple.

morespce54
Mar 12, 2013, 02:13 PM
I agree with the "same form factor" statement although, to me, the iPhone is still the perfect from factor. But I don't agree with the statement that Apple needs "to Be Less Predictable". Right, Apple is in a situation where people knows pretty much when a new version will come out but isn't the case with most products anyway ? Take cars for example.

"It August and I need a new car. But I heard that by the end of the year, they will come up with the next year model. Should I wait or will I get mad when I'll buy my new car only to find out a new one will be out 3 months later?"

To me, production wise, being able to come up with a new model (even with the same form factor) every year and being able to delver it is pretty much the perfect scenario.

My 2 cents

Tiger8
Mar 12, 2013, 02:19 PM
Galaxy S I was HORRIBLE. Poor excuse for a bug ridden phone. Before the S III I hated samsung because before then all the samsungs I had were janky. I was happy with my iphone 4 and EVO 4g

Thanks, i'll downgrade S1 from Meh to Horrible.
:D

UnfetteredMind
Mar 12, 2013, 02:21 PM
I don't get this "obsoleting". The device the people bought will continue to do what they bought it for, it will continue to receive updates and new features. It's not obsolete because one has a better processor etc.

Totally agree. The lawsuit (in Brazil) *should* fail, but in this world, who knows. Regardless, they are being sued for it. Pretty ridiculous.

johnnyjibbs
Mar 12, 2013, 02:48 PM
It is a problem, except for the fact that people have started to become disappointed by the non-'S' releases (iPhone 5) and less so about the 'S' releases (iPhone 3GS/4S) because they know not to expect much.

And yet iPhones continue to outsell all other competitor devices. Nothing has changed.

Personally, I couldn't be happier with my 5, far better than my previous 4, which itself was a phenomenal phone. But I'll be skipping the 5S anyway; damn 2 year contracts!

Mike MA
Mar 12, 2013, 02:52 PM
Meaningless article.

Only at a first glance - some nice thoughts concerning customer behavior based on the typical iPhone life cycles/update strategy if you ask me.

marty11
Mar 12, 2013, 02:55 PM
The ONLY reason I'd consider upgrading from my 4s to a 5s is that AT&T is charging me for it every month regardless (cost is embedded in the plan).

And I will probably just flip it on eBay, because I really don't expect much from apple, especially after seeing the wife's ip5.

Jetson
Mar 12, 2013, 02:57 PM
Competitors are catching up with the iPhone because there hasn't been anything new in a while other than an unattractive dark metal on a longer phone which is just as thick as the previous few years. I am not looking forward for an iPhone 5S with a better chip, camera, and battery lol.. For the first time since I bought my first iPhone I am starting to see what the competition is doing and maybe I might switch to Samsung or some other who are providing innovation. We can all agree there hasn't been a WOW factor in design or program with Apple in quite a while.
What innovation, exactly, is Samsung, Android, etc providing?

I read people saying how innovative they are, but it seems to me that they are mere copiers of Apple.

What innovative features are actually better than Apple's offerings?

Personally I like the Apple ecosysytem, which has attained stability. I like iOS, and the the way Apple products work. What superior experience do the competitors provide?

Statelymwhite
Mar 12, 2013, 03:11 PM
Sorry, but when many of the new features of the updated iOS aren't supported on older devices, it does tend to make the older hardware obsolete. This is Apple's fault. The iPhone4 can run Siri, but Apple wanted people to run out and buy the 4S. The iPhone4 can also handle 3D maps, but Apple wants you to buy a 5.

So yes, it is annoying when they churn out updated devices quickly because they purposely keep the new software features from running on the older devices.

Planned and forced obsolescence in spite of the technology.

BaldiMac
Mar 12, 2013, 03:21 PM
Sorry, but when many of the new features of the updated iOS aren't supported on older devices, it does tend to make the older hardware obsolete. This is Apple's fault. The iPhone4 can run Siri, but Apple wanted people to run out and buy the 4S. The iPhone4 can also handle 3D maps, but Apple wants you to buy a 5.

So yes, it is annoying when they churn out updated devices quickly because they purposely keep the new software features from running on the older devices.

Planned and forced obsolescence in spite of the technology.

Or... there were technical considerations that you aren't aware of.

And then you have Android, which is much, much worse.

olowott
Mar 12, 2013, 03:34 PM
we need that effect back on

The Apple effect - its missing due to these leaks which is really annoying

i like the S range , i actually buy the S range cos i feel its well structured and developed version the the main range :cool:

so am patiently saving up and waiting on the iPhone5s

Tubamajuba
Mar 12, 2013, 03:40 PM
I wonder if some people do anything but stare at the homescreen on their iPhone. (And ignore any changes there since 2007.)

Thank you! When I get bored with my phone, I stop playing with it and do something else with my time. Not continue staring at it and wish that it did things that it doesn't.

I'm certainly not saying that the iPhone is perfect. Because it's not. There are legitimate reasons why people buy Android devices over iOS devices. I just don't understand people that expect to be entertained by mobile operating systems. That's why we have books, movies, television, video games, etc.

fastasleep
Mar 12, 2013, 03:48 PM
The iPhone 5 design is the most pristine example of laziness. It is literally no different than the 4s.

http://www.quietspeculation.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/You-keep-using-that-word-300x252.jpg

adildacoolset
Mar 12, 2013, 03:58 PM
Yet, from the images, the S4 looms exactly the same as the S3 but everyone still considers it to be "innovative"

----------

It is literally no different than the 4s..

Name me pone thing that they've kept the same in the iPhone 5, that they did in the 4S.

New body, new screen, new cameras, LTE, upgraded wifi, and thats before I mention the A6. Even the noise-cancelling microphones were updated!

But when a 4S comes and the only things different are an A5 and camera, then Apple for some reason hasn't lost its innovation there. But when they release a phone gleaming with all of these upgrades, then it's laziness.

rocknblogger
Mar 12, 2013, 04:05 PM
I can swear that when 4S was released, the reaction here was that it's already behind the competition.
Maybe around here but that's par for the course here.
:confused: Those are some pretty convenient assumptions there. :D
No assumptions here. Which part of what I said do you think are assumptions?

TeamMojo
Mar 12, 2013, 04:05 PM
I see my Android colleagues constantly struggling with battery life and other strange issues on their phones, not to mention unreliable apps and constantly shifting hardware platforms. And then there is the whole IT factor. If you own Android you have to manage all of the new OS updates and whether you want them, and what works with what, etc. The reason I have an iPhone is so that I don't have to manage my phone like I do a computer network. It just works, and since it is a real time mission critical device, I need it to just work and not be a constant source of maintenance.

In short, predictability is good.

Lancer
Mar 12, 2013, 04:06 PM
Maybe the next iPhone could be the 5T that will fix the problem :rolleyes:

Personally I think this time around while the case might stay the same internally we could see some big upgrades. But for most they just want a smart phone that works and the iPhone works, my 3Gs is still working but after 3 years might need a new battery soon.

I hope the 5s (or what every they call it) is released by mid year.

The iPhone 5 design is the most pristine example of laziness. It is literally no different than the 4s...

Thats like saying the new BMW has 4 wheels, it's literally the same as the 2012 model!

Jimmy James
Mar 12, 2013, 04:44 PM
And yet my 4 still does everything I need.

Lancer
Mar 12, 2013, 05:34 PM
And yet my 4 still does everything I need.

The reason I've not upgraded my 3Gs, it's a little slow but does all I need. Plus until last month I was running an older PPC Mac and could not get the iPhone5 as it requires iTunes that is no longer supported under PPC.

theluggage
Mar 12, 2013, 05:35 PM
if you understood how the lighting connector worked you'd understand why they couldn't make it any smaller than they did.

Actually, I meant make the Lightning-to-30pin adapter bigger so it fit securely into a universal dock using an appropriate, existing, insert.

LOLZpersonok
Mar 12, 2013, 05:50 PM
This might be irrelevant, but I just thought of this:

What if Apple made a big, high-end iPhone, kept the current iPhone in production and had their 'Mini iPhone'? I think more people would buy Apple phones and we'd have more choices.

Also, I think it'd be cool if Apple released an updated product every few years with that update being a BIG update. Then there'd be more reasons to upgrade?

dampfnudel
Mar 12, 2013, 06:23 PM
I have bought pretty much every iPhone since the 3G, but will be holding off on the 5S this time. In hindsight, there really wasn't any reason to jump from 4 to 4S, but I got caught up in the hype.

The jump to the 5 was justified by the change to LTE alone. I really don't think NFC or a fingerprint sensor will cause for me to upgrade though. The only thing I buy on a daily basis is coffee from Starbucks. I can already scan my phone to do this. As for the non-purchasing functions of NFC, those are still a couple years off. A finger scanner would be a pure gimmick, nothing more.

Unless Apple has something up their sleeve that tempts you enough to upgrade.;) I just hope they don't believe NFC and a fingerprint sensor will be better accepted than Siri as "must-have" features. At this point, only a larger screen surprise would do the trick. AAPL will get a beating otherwise.

charlituna
Mar 12, 2013, 06:55 PM
Unless Apple has something up their sleeve that tempts you enough to upgrade.;) I just hope they don't believe NFC and a fingerprint sensor will be better accepted than Siri as "must-have" features. At this point, only a larger screen surprise would do the trick. AAPL will get a beating otherwise.

You will find me among those that don't feel a bigg screen is needed at all. More stable cell connections, 802.11ac, better camera are all more important than a bigger screen to many

eXan
Mar 12, 2013, 08:29 PM
I have no idea about other phones (everyone I know uses iPhones), but I think Apple is getting a bit lazy.

I've had every iPhone, except for 4 and 5. The main difference is retina display and processing speed, other than that, they are all extremely alike. Long-standing issues continue to be ignored, yet software and hardware gets a load of useless junk every update.

And now people seem to have become obsessed with larger screens and want their phones to be like iPads. Sad thing is that Apple will follow the masses in this, just as it has done for the last couple of years, instead of going its own path, which led them to success in the first place.

Lancer
Mar 12, 2013, 10:24 PM
And now people seem to have become obsessed with larger screens and want their phones to be like iPads. Sad thing is that Apple will follow the masses in this, just as it has done for the last couple of years, instead of going its own path, which led them to success in the first place.

My sister switched from a Samsung to the iPhone 4s because the scene on the other was too big in her opinion.

Really how big do you need your 'phone' to be? I think some where between 4-5 is the ideal side, any bigger just get a tablet. Now how hard would it be for Apple to include phone functions in the iPad range? I mean it would give those who want a BIG screen something to crow about a 7.9" iPhone!

Casiotone
Mar 12, 2013, 10:38 PM
The iPhone 4 had severely constrained availability when it launched, managing to sell "only" 1.7 millions over the first week-end (only 700k more than the 3GS)

The 4S on the other hand, had plenty of units available even if Apple launched in a lot more countries at the same time.

It sold 4 millions over the first week-end, more than twice as the iPhone 4. This was possible because of the fact that the form factor didn't change so it was easy for Apple to produce millions of them quickly (with higher margins).

The iPhone 5, just like the 4 was a new form factor which was hard to manufacture at the beginning of the production line, leading to limited availability. The iPhone 5 only sold 1 million more units over the first week-end compared to the 4S.

People underestimate the appeal of the "S" models.

"Tried and tested and even better than before" beats "Fancy all new design and futuristic features" in the minds of many.

I think that Apple could sell a lot of iPhone 5S especially if they have a lot of supply available for launch. Something like 8-10 millions over the first week-end.

dampfnudel
Mar 12, 2013, 10:39 PM
You will find me among those that don't feel a bigg screen is needed at all. More stable cell connections, 802.11ac, better camera are all more important than a bigger screen to many

I predict I will also find you among the first to order an iPhone with a larger screen.;):D

maxosx
Mar 12, 2013, 10:40 PM
The iPhone 4 had severely constrained availability when it launched, managing to sell "only" 1.7 millions over the first week-end (only 700k more than the 3GS)

The 4S on the other hand, had plenty of units available even if Apple launched in a lot more countries at the same time.

It sold 4 millions over the first week-end, more than twice as the iPhone 4. This was possible because of the fact that the form factor didn't change so it was easy for Apple to produce millions of them quickly (with higher margins).

The iPhone 5, just like the 4 was a new form factor which was hard to manufacture at the beginning of the production line, leading to limited availability. The iPhone 5 only sold 1 million more units over the first week-end compared to the 4S.

People underestimate the appeal of the "S" models. "Tried and tested + even better than before" beats "Fancy all new design and futuristic features" in the minds of many.

I think that Apple could sell a lot of iPhone 5S especially if they have a lot of supply available for launch. Something like 8-10 millions over the first week-end.

You're right, having a huge supply ready to ship is the answer.

etrinh
Mar 12, 2013, 10:50 PM
What does the G-Note do that the 3GS doesn't?

Curious because I've only owned 3GS and 4S.

Reading about features isn't that same as someone actually using them and telling you about them.

I'm still relatively young (22), but I have owned a Macbook, a Macbook Pro, a iPhone 3GS, and an iPhone 4S, not to mention the countless people I know personally that have come to me for tech advice, and pushed them towards Apple.

The iPhone 4S's absurd lack of LTE, and same small screen size, and just general sameness in the iOS when coming from the 3GS made me just feel like, why the hell did I buy this? Don't get me wrong, I love my 3GS, and I actually still use it as an iPod Touch in my car for Podcasts and Music, but everything I could do on my 4S, I could more or less do on the 3GS. Which is why I sold it on Ebay 4 months after owning it, and jumped onto a Galaxy Note.

I still use my MBP, and probably will continue to, but phone wise, that absurd release just left me feeling burned towards the whole iOS lineup.

EDIT: If you bring up Siri, well, lets just say, its the feature advertised the most, which is used the least. It became more a problem when I was in my college classes, with the damn device muted, it would continue to think I was putting the phone up to my ear, and make a bunch of noise.

Builddesign
Mar 12, 2013, 10:51 PM
Tell automakers to be less predictable.....

Leave :apple: alone

paul4339
Mar 12, 2013, 11:00 PM
The 5S will sell well, because the 4S sold well. Assuming a 90% satisfactory rating with the 4S, a good portion of people on the two-year plans will renew to a 5S. There will be also a good portion from the iPhone 4 that held back or are on 3-year plans up for renewal.

The kicker is going to be if the keep they iPhone 5 around (with a reduced price) AND the release of a less expensive iPhone. The combination of these two, will address the low and high end of the mid-market. These can replace the $99 and $0 down payment currently being offered by the 4S and 4.

.

Arelunde
Mar 12, 2013, 11:34 PM
It seems maybe smartphone development is beginning to plateau - like desktop computers did years ago. How many different ways can you do things before you start creating "new" things out of recycled old things.

The screen size of a smartphone is now limited by the existence of tablets. Tablet size is limited by laptop computers with detachable screens. Tablets sizes are limited by the willingness of consumers to cart around a slab of screen.

We went from basic computers that required an array of peripherals to built-in components and now back to an array of peripherals because devices need to be streamlines, light and ....??? :rolleyes:

vmachiel
Mar 13, 2013, 03:31 AM
Been pretty damned quiet in Cupertino so far.

Yeah it has. But what i'm hoping is not so much hardware, that's pretty much fine for the moment, but software innovation.

Since iOS 6 was a bit of a "meh" upgrade, i'm hoping for amazing stuff in iOS 7.

Rogifan
Mar 13, 2013, 06:44 AM
Yeah it has. But what i'm hoping is not so much hardware, that's pretty much fine for the moment, but software innovation.

Since iOS 6 was a bit of a "meh" upgrade, i'm hoping for amazing stuff in iOS 7.

Tim Cook says Apple isn't a hardware company. Time for them to prove that this year.

UK-MacAddict
Mar 13, 2013, 07:00 AM
There is nothing wrong with iPhone keeping the same design for 2 years and just updating the internals.

The issue for me is that they don't update the internals enough. They always seem to hold back with every product to put something onto the successor. I'm positive they could have launched the iPad mini with a retina. But they'd say oh we couldn't because of its size blah blah.

I've had every single iPhone since they launched it and iPhone 5 was pretty unexciting. To steal the show back from Samsung. Apple need to pump the screen to 4.5 inch both taller and wider aspect ratio. On the looks front they are still the best so Jony should just continue what he's doing there. Inside they need to go at least quad core with 2gb ram. Heck why follow competition. Just blow them out of the water with an 8 core processor and 4gb of ram.

Finally the iOS needs a major overhaul. The icons should be relegated to the background and called up when needed and not the first thing you see. Android and the new BB 10 look 10 years ahead of iOS.

Apple need to just go crazy on the next iPhone and give customers a super charged iPhone.

kockgunner
Mar 13, 2013, 07:55 AM
That word doesn't mean what you think it means and you're using it lazily.

Also Apple's stock is half what it used to be because of analysts spewing bullcrap plus a trigger happy stock market that believes everything it hears. Nothing else.

Samsung is probably about to release a GSIV that is identical to the GSIII (http://www.theverge.com/2013/3/12/4093048/galaxy-s-4-video-leak-rumor) in terms of external design. Same curved plastic shell with fake metal accents. Yet no one will moan about that, in fact they will sell millions and most will hail it as the best smartphone in the market. But with Apple its "they're not innovating, they're boring" blah blah blah.

How about you guys come up with a revolutionary idea every 6 months and lets see how you fare.

I'm not saying Apple is perfect, far from it but a lot of people seem to be in over their heads and no longer recognise reality.

Personally i can't wait till Apple buys back their stock and all the complainers move to Android/Samsung. Then it'll be back to the specific segment of the market that Apple has always catered to from the start and everyone will move on.

Thank you! I miss the time when Apple was in a bubble and didn't get scrutinized by every single form of media and people who probably don't even know what the word "innovation" means. I hate that people won't shut up about how I made the wrong choice if I buy an Apple product. Apple products have never been for everyone and they never will.

Russlush3
Mar 13, 2013, 09:43 AM
I question how the conclusion in bold can be reached based on the 'S' years to date. Sounds good in theory but the 3GS and the 4S both resulted in a dramatic increases in sales.

Increase in sales (and market share) does not equal "consumers far more likely to look around at competitor products."

It is just a hypothesis, but I am an anecdotal case and point. A mixture of my iPhone shattering upon the first time dropping it (from about 3 ft), the absolute mess of Maps last year, and my lack of enthusiasm for the 5 design (with the knowledge that it was almost certainly not going to change for nearly 2 years) lead me to give the Galaxy S3 a try. If I hated the GS3, it would be time to get a new phone around the time the iPhone 6 came out and I'd be able to chose. Now that I've been using the GS3 for about 4 months, all of my hesitations have been washed away and Apple will have to do double duty if they want to bring me back to the iPhone. I will likely always be an iMac and Macbook pro owner, but I find myself slowly but surely ditching all the extras like my iPhone, ipod shuffle, ipod nano, apple tv, kinda sad.

BaldiMac
Mar 13, 2013, 10:01 AM
It is just a hypothesis, but I am an anecdotal case and point. A mixture of my iPhone shattering upon the first time dropping it (from about 3 ft), the absolute mess of Maps last year, and my lack of enthusiasm for the 5 design (with the knowledge that it was almost certainly not going to change for nearly 2 years) lead me to give the Galaxy S3 a try. If I hated the GS3, it would be time to get a new phone around the time the iPhone 6 came out and I'd be able to chose. Now that I've been using the GS3 for about 4 months, all of my hesitations have been washed away and Apple will have to do double duty if they want to bring me back to the iPhone. I will likely always be an iMac and Macbook pro owner, but I find myself slowly but surely ditching all the extras like my iPhone, ipod shuffle, ipod nano, apple tv, kinda sad.

Like I said to the last person who posted their switching story in response, that's a nice anecdote. But the fact is that more people are switching to the iPhone than switching away from the iPhone. It is not only increasing in unit sales, but market share as well throughout 'S' years and otherwise.

http://www.statista.com/statistics/173051/global-market-share-of-leading-smartphone-vendors-since-2007/

chiefsilverback
Mar 13, 2013, 10:35 AM
Because the only innovation in smartphones is redesigning the case! :DPorsche have been evolving the 911 for 40+ years now...

charlituna
Mar 13, 2013, 05:43 PM
I predict I will also find you among the first to order an iPhone with a larger screen.;):D

If that is the only thing that is different, no you won't. If it has all the stuff I want and the screen is a bit larger I won't likely reject it. Then again if they create some asshat looking phablet I won't. I'm not one of these saps that buys something simply because its new and shiny and Apple made it

cclloyd
Mar 13, 2013, 09:24 PM
0th world problems.

dampfnudel
Mar 14, 2013, 03:45 PM
If that is the only thing that is different, no you won't. If it has all the stuff I want and the screen is a bit larger I won't likely reject it. Then again if they create some asshat looking phablet I won't. I'm not one of these saps that buys something simply because its new and shiny and Apple made it

That's what they all say. What's all "the stuff I want"? NFC? A fingerprint sensor? Slightly improved camera with LED flash? A7? Something up Apple's sleeve that's hopefully more significant than Siri?

I think with the maturity of the smartphone business and diminishing returns from the hardware side (for now at least), it will be the software that makes or breaks the iPhone from this point on.

charlituna
Mar 15, 2013, 12:15 AM
That's what they all say. What's all "the stuff I want"?

I answered that before you tried to be cute and claim you have a clue about me and whether I'd buy it anyway. So you can look it up if you want the answer

AceMason
Mar 15, 2013, 03:20 AM
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m73zxc2zBv1r0xp1oo1_250.gif

dampfnudel
Mar 15, 2013, 03:51 PM
I answered that before you tried to be cute and claim you have a clue about me and whether I'd buy it anyway. So you can look it up if you want the answer

With some people who purchase Apple products, it's not being cute, it's being factual. If that doesn't apply to you, my bad.

Moving on, I hope Apple has something more significant up their sleeves for the 5S or maybe even a larger screen surprise.

SomeDudeAsking
Mar 17, 2013, 01:51 AM
You are the Golden Child example of somebody who has absolutely no idea how the stick market works. In fact, when I was at Schwab we used to call investors who shared your logic, Kamikazes.

You have any more derogatory anecdotes you like to share?

cjmillsnun
Mar 17, 2013, 04:50 AM
Not trying to toll, but I felt burned by the iPhone 4S, which is what led me to android. This is a problem, whether Apple wants to acknowledge it or not.

You were burned by the 4S... Why? I upgraded to the 4S from the 4. In fact the 5 is the first one I've missed since I first got my 3G.

Every single one has offered enough of an advantage for me to upgrade.

3G-3GS --> HSDPA, camera, video capability and speed.

3GS-4 --> HSUPA better camera, flash on the camera, speed and oh that display

4-4S --> HSPA+, better camera, speed (dual processors) Siri.

Every single 'S' phone has offered enough to make it a compelling upgrade. Especially over the previous 'S' phone. One has to remember that most US, Canadian and European people are on 2 year contracts. Therefore the tick tock cycle actually works very well.

----------

The 5S will sell well, because the 4S sold well. Assuming a 90% satisfactory rating with the 4S, a good portion of people on the two-year plans will renew to a 5S. There will be also a good portion from the iPhone 4 that held back or are on 3-year plans up for renewal.

The kicker is going to be if the keep they iPhone 5 around (with a reduced price) AND the release of a less expensive iPhone. The combination of these two, will address the low and high end of the mid-market. These can replace the $99 and $0 down payment currently being offered by the 4S and 4.

.

There will be a less expensive iPhone. It'll be the 4S which will take the $0 slot the 4 currently occupies.

----------

It is a problem, except for the fact that people have started to become disappointed by the non-'S' releases (iPhone 5) and less so about the 'S' releases (iPhone 3GS/4S) because they know not to expect much.

And yet iPhones continue to outsell all other competitor devices. Nothing has changed.

Personally, I couldn't be happier with my 5, far better than my previous 4, which itself was a phenomenal phone. But I'll be skipping the 5S anyway; damn 2 year contracts!

Analysts and tech pundits ≠ most people.

Most people are more than happy with the iPhone releases.

cjmillsnun
Mar 17, 2013, 05:00 AM
I don't care what you haters or apple lovers say

The market has spoken and the facts say people are bored with apple

Can you provide sales evidence to back up that fact?

Apple are the largest or second largest manufacturer of smartphones. FACT.

OK the stock market shows that some people are bored with Apple, but to be fair I think the stock was way overvalued. It seems to have stabilised and it looks like there was a revaluation done. One must remember that Apple survived the 2008-2012 period unscathed (in fact stronger) whilst others lost out big time on the stock market. That in my mind was unrealistic.

Radio
Mar 17, 2013, 01:25 PM
Can you provide sales evidence to back up that fact?

Apple are the largest or second largest manufacturer of smartphones. FACT.

OK the stock market shows that some people are bored with Apple, but to be fair I think the stock was way overvalued. It seems to have stabilised and it looks like there was a revaluation done. One must remember that Apple survived the 2008-2012 period unscathed (in fact stronger) whilst others lost out big time on the stock market. That in my mind was unrealistic.

I own an iPhone 5 and iOS 6 offers nothing new

Looking fwd to iOS 7 or I'm out of here!

Not the forum; love the forum :)

cmChimera
Mar 17, 2013, 03:47 PM
Couple of serious questions.

1. When people say that the iPhone 5 looks identical to the iPhone 4/iPhone 4s should I recommend them an eye exam?

2. When people say that the "S" models don't change much, what should I do besides laugh at them?

Turo Dexter
Mar 18, 2013, 01:01 PM
The value I derive from my iPhone is from its apps (and the camera in my 4s). It's most important to me that Apple provide a capable platform and robust support for the developer ecosystem, which is where the real innovation happens. The hardware and OS vendor can - and should - only do so much. Apple's innovation should be focused on enabling swarms of developers and giving them what they need to take the platform to new heights.

thefourthpope
Mar 24, 2013, 11:34 PM
The value I derive from my iPhone is from its apps (and the camera in my 4s). It's most important to me that Apple provide a capable platform and robust support for the developer ecosystem, which is where the real innovation happens. The hardware and OS vendor can - and should - only do so much. Apple's innovation should be focused on enabling swarms of developers and giving them what they need to take the platform to new heights.

I doubt they'll shift their business model and focus on open source, but I agree that the App Store is a good thing

PinkyMacGodess
Apr 17, 2013, 01:08 PM
Meaningless article. They still sell an assload of iPhones every other year with very little changed.

It's because they work, well, and the aura of having an iPhone...