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medea
Dec 11, 2002, 04:14 PM
http://biz.yahoo.com/djus/021211/1601000764_1.html

Apple today filed a civil complaint against a former contractor who allegedly posted schematic drawings, images and engineering details of the company's latest Power Mac G4 on the Internet in July, several weeks before the product was officially announced. Dow Jones Newswires report that the complaint was filed against Jose Lopez in California Superior Court in Santa Clara County. Apple alleges that Lopez, who was employed as a contractor in 2001 through this year, "misappropriated trade secrets and breached his contract." Last week, Sacramento district attorney Jan Scully filed a criminal complaint against Lopez for stealing Apple's trade secrets and issued a warrant for his arrest. "Innovation is in Apple's DNA, so the protection of trade secrets is crucial to our success. Our policy is to take legal actions where necessary to preserve the confidentiality of our intellectual property," Apple said in a statement. Apple's action follows that of the district attorney in Sacramento, Jan Scully. Last week, the district attorney filed a criminal complaint against Mr. Lopez for stealing Apple's trade secrets and issued a warrant for his arrest. The district attorney's office didn't immediately return a call seeking comment.
This isn't the first time Apple has taken legal action to stop leakages of company information. In 2000, Apple sued a former worker, Juan Gutierrez, for posting pictures on several Web sites of upcoming Apple products such as the new iBook laptop. Apple later reached a settlement with Mr. Gutierrez.

vniow
Dec 11, 2002, 04:19 PM
I'm not sure if you were around then, but the person mentioned in the article first posted all that stuff on Macrumors first!

Here's the thread. (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8083)

Guess we all know who APPLEP58 is now.

dricci
Dec 11, 2002, 04:21 PM
filed a criminal complaint against Lopez for stealing Apple's trade secrets and issued a warrant for his arrest.

Wow, I can see they're a little pissed off :D

Better watch out!

medea
Dec 11, 2002, 04:35 PM
Originally posted by edvniow
I'm not sure if you were around then, but the person mentioned in the article first posted all that stuff on Macrumors first!

Here's the thread. (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8083)

Guess we all know who APPLEP58 is now.
No I registered shortly after that, but I was aware of the photo and info from elsewhere. I had no idea the person in the article was a macrumors member and had posted the info here, crazy.....bet he wishes he has some self control now though.;)

Mr. Anderson
Dec 11, 2002, 05:05 PM
I don't think it was necessarily Jose - there was mention in the submission section that he had to translate the info from French. Jose might have let it slip out to someone in France (MacBidouille) and then they were the ones to post it here to MacRumors.

But who knows, all that might have been done to be misleading on purpose, but MacBidouille had the images before anyone else.

D

AssassinOfGates
Dec 11, 2002, 05:17 PM
ouch. that was the man who encouraged me indirectly to buy the mac i use today, and now look where he's at. AppleP58, thanks for the scoop, and good luck dealing with the lawyers :\

pretentious
Dec 11, 2002, 05:24 PM
Sometimes we can just go too far, in wanting new content and pushing for more, that we forget how this info may come to us, and that may just be AGAINST THE LAW.
Some of us may be in jobs where we may come across sensitive data, let this be a lesson, that this info should not leave that environment, and had probably had signed a confidentiality agreement and that should be honored. No matter how "kewl" it would be to leak this out to the surrounding community first before Apple or what ever company may release it.
The rumors community should respect this, and I am wondering what Arn has to say about this.

Dr. Distortion
Dec 11, 2002, 05:57 PM
I think Groovebuster owes this guy an apology, looking at how he treated him in that thread... Better think twice before taking on such a guy in the future Groovebuster!

-Dr. D.

Mr. Anderson
Dec 11, 2002, 07:54 PM
Originally posted by Dr. Distortion
I think Groovebuster owes this guy an apology, looking at how he treated him in that thread... Better think twice before taking on such a guy in the future Groovebuster!

-Dr. D.

Groovebuster needed to do that a long time ago. I'm still not sure that AppleP58 and Jose are the same guy though.

And why would the French get the pic before evenyone else if he was in California, it doesn't make sense.

D

Durandal7
Dec 11, 2002, 10:30 PM
Wow, that was further back then I thought.

We can only hope that people remain this forthcoming in the future.

ibjoshua
Dec 11, 2002, 11:08 PM
Originally posted by Durandal7
Wow, that was further back then I thought.

We can only hope that people remain this forthcoming in the future.

forthcoming or foolhardy ??

It's looking like it wasn't the smartest thing to do.

i_b_joshua

Future Man
Dec 11, 2002, 11:38 PM
This poor guy is in for a MAJOR hassle and potential jail time. I'm sure he doesn't have the resources (money) to successfully take on a company the size of Apple in court. And for what? So we could all get excited over a PDF.

And reading back over the original thread I began to realize that people really took this thing with as much apprehension as they do most rumors that pop up here and elsewhere. I mean was it really worth it... don't answer that, cause it wasn't. I remember the original thread (I think I was still lurking). And I certainly was one of the folks who was happy he posted here, and happy to get a look at a potentially new Apple product.

But at this point I would give it back to save Apple58's hide. They are going to impale this guy as an example to all the would be leakers of sensitive inside info. Lets all just hope he gets away without a stint in the big house. It's all fun and games until someone owes Apple or the state of California or whoever $80,000.00 in penalty fines.

This stuff is no joke. Or at least at times it can become gravely serious. What is happening to Mr. Lopez is going to turn out to be a lot more than a slap on the wrist.

However, what I really want to know is how they traced it back to him? Was he the only "contractor" who had these things specs? Did they seize his comp and check his disk? WOW this is creepy...

Mans Future

buffsldr
Dec 11, 2002, 11:45 PM
"It is unknown if AppleP58 is the defendant (Jose Lopez) or simply a contact or another individual who received the images from Mr. Lopez. "

Why even have the trial? Lopez must be guilty. I mean, innocent people don't get take to court do they?

arn
Dec 12, 2002, 12:11 AM
Originally posted by buffsldr
"It is unknown if AppleP58 is the defendant (Jose Lopez) or simply a contact or another individual who received the images from Mr. Lopez. "

Why even have the trial? Lopez must be guilty. I mean, innocent people don't get take to court do they?

I didn't mean to imply he was certainly guilty.

I guess the bottom line I meant is that someone posted these pics. Whether AppleP58 is that person Apple is looking for or not...

arn

redAPPLE
Dec 12, 2002, 12:31 AM
Originally posted by dukestreet


Groovebuster needed to do that a long time ago. I'm still not sure that AppleP58 and Jose are the same guy though.

And why would the French get the pic before evenyone else if he was in California, it doesn't make sense.

D

coz his mom is french? :confused: :D

redAPPLE
Dec 12, 2002, 12:34 AM
Originally posted by i_b_joshua


forthcoming or foolhardy ??

It's looking like it wasn't the smartest thing to do.

i_b_joshua

the thing is, who would have thought it would turn out this way.

i bet SJ personally seen to it that the "bastard" (maybe SJ said something nastier") gets his day in court (if not jail)

will you be sent to jail for a "crime" like this?

please tell me, i have never been in jail yet... ;)

redAPPLE
Dec 12, 2002, 12:36 AM
Originally posted by buffsldr


Why even have the trial? Lopez must be guilty. I mean, innocent people don't get take to court do they?

remember OJ?:D

3rdpath
Dec 12, 2002, 12:45 AM
apple's gonna push this for all the publicity they can get...what better way to thwart future tipsters.

applep58 may or may not be lopez...but he is definately guilty of forwarding/publishing trade secrets...how he came into possession of this info will be very important should he need to defend himself( assuming he's not lopez).

also, interesting timing on apple's part...anything due in january?

Dandee
Dec 12, 2002, 12:57 AM
Aren't they a little bit harsh towards the guy. And that just before Christmas. Oh well, here in The Netherlands you've got 6 months when you slash a guys throat and the gov even invests tons of $$$ in that person just to get a psychic report and you'll get behind bars for years when you look wrong to your neighbour. Punish the guy, not to hard though, and then shake hands with Cristmas.

P.S. I don't know if i will be back on the board soon due to a holiday, so in advance best wishes to all you guys (and girls...)!

NicoMan
Dec 12, 2002, 04:46 AM
On the one hand, Apple probably feels that this leak has cost them loads of cash: I can imagine that sales of 'old' powermacs were enormously impacted by the leak (it is obviously much better for Apple to sell old ones than new ones, for at least price reasons and inventory reasons...); imagine the buzz of all the mac-related sites after the leak, who would want to buy the old PowerMacs...

On the other hand, it is harsh. Because like some said it feels like crime against big corporates (and to an extent 'money' crimes) are getting heavily prosecuted as opposed to violent/physical crimes (it is obviously all relative but I am not sure I like the direction this is going). It feels like it is another case of Money Rules .

Oh well...

NicoMan

usersince86
Dec 12, 2002, 05:09 AM
Apple has a point with this.

And even though it's not exactly the same:
* So does Apple with Microsoft.
* So do many companies with Microsoft.
* So does Xerox with Apple.
* etc.

maelstromr
Dec 12, 2002, 08:23 AM
Of course, it IS ILLEGAL to leak sensitive secrets that have been given to you in confidence. This guy is paying the price for a little excitment (and fame?). Good lesson to the rumors community here, Apple OWNS its information, and sneaking into their confidence to leak things for the hungry drooling masses is clearly a violation of its rights.
While it's easy to attack the nasty big corporations, everyone needs to imagine what would happen if Apple couldn't keep its secrets anymore...competition anyone? As someone mentioned earlier...sales on current merchandise? I would think Apple could make a good case for losing at least oh, 30 high end sales on the leak...that's already $90,000 dollars taken directly from their accounts, aka grand larceny x90. Not to mention, Apple hasn't asked for any MONEY yet, they are just trying to enforce the law and protect their company's intellectual material.
Anyway, that's my little rant...just trying to put some perspective on the "harshness" of Apple's actions.

Dunepilot
Dec 12, 2002, 09:37 AM
I remember that fool Groovebuster mouthing off at AppleP58 like he was the new Alphatech - we should all remember that we check this site because we like rumours about Apple.

When someone like Jose/AppleP58 comes along to give us a piece of information purely for our entertainment (that turns out to be true) I think we owe that person a debt of gratitude.

Let's hope he gets off with just a rap across the knuckles. This guy gave us the first true major hardware rumour since Time Canada leaked the new iMac.

God bless Jose. Let's hope his cellmate doesn't turn him into his 'wife' just because he cared enough to give us the info we wanted. Anyone who feels Jose doesn't deserve our support/pity obviously doesn't really love mac rumours.

maelstromr
Dec 12, 2002, 09:42 AM
Maybe not, but we DO love Apple.

mcrain
Dec 12, 2002, 09:57 AM
Originally posted by buffsldr
Why even have the trial? Lopez must be guilty. I mean, innocent people don't get take to court do they?

Ha ha ha ha ha, Oh my lord, I needed a good laugh this morning... Thanks. Whew, that was great.

gbojim
Dec 12, 2002, 10:47 AM
Originally posted by Dunepilot
I remember that fool Groovebuster mouthing off at AppleP58 like he was the new Alphatech - we should all remember that we check this site because we like rumours about Apple.

When someone like Jose/AppleP58 comes along to give us a piece of information purely for our entertainment (that turns out to be true) I think we owe that person a debt of gratitude.

Let's hope he gets off with just a rap across the knuckles. This guy gave us the first true major hardware rumour since Time Canada leaked the new iMac.

God bless Jose. Let's hope his cellmate doesn't turn him into his 'wife' just because he cared enough to give us the info we wanted. Anyone who feels Jose doesn't deserve our support/pity obviously doesn't really love mac rumours.

You're kidding right? This had nothing to do with a "rumor". If the allegations are true, this guy published real information that he was bound by a legal contract to keep secret. pretty big difference in my book.

Dunepilot
Dec 12, 2002, 11:05 AM
So you're saying if he had given us made-up details like half the cranks that supply so-called information to rumour sites, you'd be happier.

Don't make me laugh:mad:

eric_n_dfw
Dec 12, 2002, 11:21 AM
Originally posted by usersince86
Apple has a point with this.

And even though it's not exactly the same:
* So does Apple with Microsoft.
* So do many companies with Microsoft.
* So does Xerox with Apple.
* etc.

I agree except for the Xerox vs. Apple one.

Xerox INVITED Apple execs over to see what PARC was up to. They never made Apple (as far as I've ever read) sign any kind of NDA's or other business contracts regarding their technology. If they had, you know that Xerox would have taken them to court, they were/are a huge company and Apple was a small time player back then.

gbojim
Dec 12, 2002, 12:19 PM
Originally posted by Dunepilot
So you're saying if he had given us made-up details like half the cranks that supply so-called information to rumour sites, you'd be happier.

Don't make me laugh:mad:

No, that's not what I'm saying. A rumor in this case is "a statement or report current without known authority for its truth" Websters. So, as soon as information has proof of authenticity, it can no longer be a rumor.

My point is that the information published was not a rumor but rather a technical document that accurately described a product. In addition, again assuming the allegations are true, this guy published the information illegally. As a result, I don't feel the least bit of pity for him.

Dunepilot
Dec 12, 2002, 12:32 PM
Originally posted by gbojim


No, that's not what I'm saying. A rumor in this case is "a statement or report current without known authority for its truth" Websters. So, as soon as information has proof of authenticity, it can no longer be a rumor.

My point is that the information published was not a rumor but rather a technical document that accurately described a product. In addition, again assuming the allegations are true, this guy published the information illegally. As a result, I don't feel the least bit of pity for him.

At the time, we _were_ "without known authority for its truth".

A lot of people said the schematic pdf was bogus based on various misunderstandings such as the illustration of vertically-mounted hard drives, and a lot of others expressed disbelief in the photograph of the MDD case, saying that it was either a Photoshop mock-up or a custom modification that someone had done to an earlier G3/4 tower variant.

By your definition, I assume you only enjoy a "rumor" for as long as its validity is in doubt - therefore, once you know something to be true, via proof of authenticity, you would have preferred that the person stuck by his non-disclosure agreement and (according to the law) withhold information from this interested community. That position just isn't consistent with someone who benefits from, or is interested in, this website.

Do you really think we'd ever get any details about upcoming developments if it weren't for people slipping on their NDAs? It's not like you'd find out anything any other way in Apple's tight-lipped current climate.

bignumbers
Dec 12, 2002, 12:50 PM
A couple of interesting thoughts come to mind...

1) The (apparent) first posting of this info was here, by AppleP58.

2) Less than a week ago, MacRumors increased its security settings. Email addresses must be verified, thus (only theoretically of course) eliminating the ability for a user to post to the forums without providing a trace back to their real identity.

I wonder if MacRumors was tipped off to the investigation, or perhaps even served with a court order to help trace P58's identity? P58 certainly knew the right stuff.

gbojim
Dec 12, 2002, 12:57 PM
Originally posted by Dunepilot


At the time, we _were_ "without known authority for its truth".

A lot of people said ...

Like most other people, I primarily come to this site for entertainment. Some of the threads I enjoy, others I don't. But I would never want anyone to break the law for my entertainment.

All I'm saying is it looks like this guy took a risk and got caught. The info may have been a rumor to us but it certainly wasn't to him.

BTW - by Webster's definition, it is not possible to enjoy a rumor after there is proof or authenticity because it is no longer a rumor at that point. However, I am interested in this site because I often find it to be fun. I enjoy the rumors component because so many here are so passionate about Apple and some of the speculation and justification is so outrageous. I have also benefited from other's opinions or first hand information on products. Some of the non-Mac discussions can be pretty interesting too.

Raiden
Dec 12, 2002, 05:36 PM
Originally posted by Dunepilot
I remember that fool Groovebuster mouthing off at AppleP58 like he was the new Alphatech - we should all remember that we check this site because we like rumours about Apple.

When someone like Jose/AppleP58 comes along to give us a piece of information purely for our entertainment (that turns out to be true) I think we owe that person a debt of gratitude.

Let's hope he gets off with just a rap across the knuckles. This guy gave us the first true major hardware rumour since Time Canada leaked the new iMac.

God bless Jose. Let's hope his cellmate doesn't turn him into his 'wife' just because he cared enough to give us the info we wanted. Anyone who feels Jose doesn't deserve our support/pity obviously doesn't really love mac rumours.

I agree. I came to this site just a few weeks before he leaked those photos, and I thought it was all super cool. Then that ******* groovebuster spoiled everything.

What annoys me is that APPLE58 or whatever his name is isnt a employee of apple. So why should he be punished when he leaks something. The press like the paparatzi (hell will freeze over before I can spell that) have no problem taking visual evidence of rumors and news, so why cant APPLE58 leak the photo and PDF?? Is it because he doesnt have the cash to fight a battle with the apple legal department?? Im so confused with this whole legal thing, could someone answer these questions? Thanks

As for APPLE58, fight the battle with apple, I think you did nothing wrong, as long as you arnt an employee of apple. God bless.

arn
Dec 12, 2002, 05:57 PM
Originally posted by Raiden

What annoys me is that APPLE58 or whatever his name is isnt a employee of apple. So why should he be punished when he leaks something.

He (or whoever he got the pics from) were contractors/employee's of Apple and presumably signed Non-Disclosure Agreements.

arn

medea
Dec 12, 2002, 06:07 PM
Originally posted by Raiden


I agree. I came to this site just a few weeks before he leaked those photos, and I thought it was all super cool. Then that ******* groovebuster spoiled everything.

What annoys me is that APPLE58 or whatever his name is isnt a employee of apple. So why should he be punished when he leaks something. The press like the paparatzi (hell will freeze over before I can spell that) have no problem taking visual evidence of rumors and news, so why cant APPLE58 leak the photo and PDF?? Is it because he doesnt have the cash to fight a battle with the apple legal department?? Im so confused with this whole legal thing, could someone answer these questions? Thanks

As for APPLE58, fight the battle with apple, I think you did nothing wrong, as long as you arnt an employee of apple. God bless. Uh he was employeed as a contractor and as such had to sign a privacy agreement which he in turn broke which means he did indeed do something wrong and illegal, "fight the battle with apple"? Im sorry but Apple has every right to persecute this man and he deserves whatever sentence he gets, why does he deserve it? because he knew exactly what he was getting himself into and he still did it, that is a choice he made and now well he will have to deal with it. I do not feel sorry for the person in question, apple isnt screwing mr.lopez, mr.lopez screwed himself.

Durandal7
Dec 12, 2002, 06:19 PM
Originally posted by bignumbers

2) Less than a week ago, MacRumors increased its security settings. Email addresses must be verified, thus (only theoretically of course) eliminating the ability for a user to post to the forums without providing a trace back to their real identity.

The only problem with that is the fact that APPLEP58 would have been unable to post new threads or attachments until his e-mail was verified.

As for the whole issue, Jose shouldn't have posted the pictures anywhere. But if people want to screw themselves then by all means do it here so I can see the hardware pictures.

ogun7
Dec 12, 2002, 06:19 PM
Originally posted by medea
http://biz.yahoo.com/djus/021211/1601000764_1.html

"Innovation is in Apple's DNA, so the protection of trade secrets is crucial to our success. Our policy is to take legal actions where necessary to preserve the confidentiality of our intellectual property," Apple said in a statement.

Apple hasn't been doing much innovating lately.
Adding fans and ventilation holes to mini-towers.
C'mon Apple, take a joke.

ogun7
Dec 12, 2002, 06:22 PM
If AppleP58 is Jose, did MacRumors have to rat him out to Apple? S/He did register here.

pretentious
Dec 12, 2002, 07:44 PM
APPLEP58 did do something illegal and I agree that I find MacRumors as an news/entertainment site, one that I find entertainment value in and I find the discussions on possible and new Apple products stimulating. However I wouldn't ever want someone to ever do something completely illegal, and possibly hurting the very company I love and respect just for my own entertainment value.
That being said I don't see that Arn/MacRumors as a possible "Rat", It seems to me that Jose went behind Arn's back started posting illegal material in the forums, before anyone at MacRumors could find any validity to it, and in doing so it put up MacRumors credibility up at stake and possible legal action.
APPLEP58 screwed his own self, and in doing so possibly hurt the MacRumors community and website. Personally I would hope that we would hang him out to dry, Arn could have gave him anonymity had he gone threw the right channels, being a news-site after all, but instead he went behind his back and put this website at risk.
So I say screw Jose/APPLEP58.

chewbaccapits
Dec 12, 2002, 08:51 PM
quote:

Originally posted by APPLEP58


unfortunately, that would be far too identifying...




Of course, because it would identify you as a bull-****ter!  You don't have a clue about the specs I bet!

As if you are the only person who would know the specs before. To tell people about the case is not worse than giving the specs.

But I bet you just got the hint yourself about the new G4s somewhere and now you want to get the credits for it! 

I don't see why else a newbie would drop in and "spill some beans".

So if you know something about the specs tell them to us! If you don't .... ****!!! 

groovebuster

__________________
Look & Feel of Windows: "I LOOK at the product and I FEEL that it doesn't solve my problem."





Maybe groove will testify for APPLE58 and convince the jury that he's innocent..

medea
Dec 12, 2002, 09:40 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by chewbaccapits
[B]quote:

Originally posted by APPLEP58


unfortunately, that would be far too identifying...




Of course, because it would identify you as a bull-****ter!  You don't have a clue about the specs I bet!

As if you are the only person who would know the specs before. To tell people about the case is not worse than giving the specs.

But I bet you just got the hint yourself about the new G4s somewhere and now you want to get the credits for it! 

I don't see why else a newbie would drop in and "spill some beans".

So if you know something about the specs tell them to us! If you don't .... ****!!! 



Uh man, I think you have completley missed the point of this thread, that was an old thread your talking about........

bignumbers
Dec 13, 2002, 05:14 AM
Originally posted by Durandal7

The only problem with that is the fact that APPLEP58 would have been unable to post new threads or attachments until his e-mail was verified.


I was more thinking of preventative measures for future "problems" like this. There is (arguably) some level of responsibility for the webmaster to ensure illegal stuff isn't posted here. Having a trace back to the poster provides a partial "out" if this happens again. It's acceptable to protect him/herself.

FYI, I don't consider MacRumors a "rat" if they helped Apple track P58. If a court order (or similar) showed up asking me for some info, I'd sing like a bird. I'm sure P58 knew the rules and knew there would be consequences if caught.

In a way I hope this goes to trial, as I'd love to learn how they caught him. But I'm sure it'll be settled. I'll forecast no jail time, and maybe a $10,000 fine. It'll be hard for Apple to show it was really hurt by this. Some users delayed purchases (hence interest lost due to delayed profit) but not much else. It's to set an example, and well executed.

BenderBot1138
Dec 13, 2002, 07:07 AM
I'd like to see the legal documents... I know they're public record. Can anyone post the Legal Complaint so we can form educated opinions about Apple's position?

:cool:

Dunepilot
Dec 13, 2002, 09:17 AM
Originally posted by ogun7


Apple hasn't been doing much innovating lately.
Adding fans and ventilation holes to mini-towers.
C'mon Apple, take a joke.

Well said - we all knew a new G4 tower was about due: all that was really leaked to us was that it would be another El Capitan variant, and that it would take 2 optical drives and 4 hard drives. Apple is way out of order on this one.

If people like Jose don't give us the hardware previews we really want, then the best rumours we'd get would relate to software, which is a whole lot less exciting to the whole macrumors.com community than a hardware advance.

Did they ever catch the person who leaked photos of the G4 cube before it came out? I hope not.

medea
Dec 13, 2002, 10:26 AM
ok so in researching this case, I found info in the 2000 case and one thing that is similar is the name Doe 1, in this case both Mr.Lopez and the unnamed person refered to as Doe1 are charged, and in this article Ill post below from 2000 Doe1 is also referenced as well as other Does, so It would appear the two are connected:
Apple files suit against 'John Doe'
by MacNN Staff
Wednesday, August 2, 2000 @ 3:00pm
In another move to protect its closely guarded secrets and prevent the disclosure of advanced product information, Apple Wednesday announced it is suing "John Doe," an unnamed invidual, for leaking company trade secrets on the Web.

The suit represents the first of its kind of the computer maker in recent history. Unlike other recently filed suits by other companies designed to shore up leaks, including Adobe's recent suit against MacNN, Apple is targeting the individuals responsible for the leak rather than the outlets that published the information.

Speculation exists that one individual named in the suit may have gone by the name "Worker Bee," who posted images and information regarding future Apple products in the AppleInsider forums in June.

Prominent sources have also indicated that Apple issued a subpoena this afternoon to Yahoo! Inc., asking the company to identify the IP address of a user that created a Geocities site that housed the images in question.

The suit itself, filed this morning in California, is extremely ambigous, claiming that Apple has no knowledge of the source's true identity. According to legal documents obtained by MacNN, the source, referred to as Doe 1, might have been working with up to twenty four accomplices.

"Apple is informed and believes and alleges that defendant Doe 1 is an individual. Apple does not know the true name of defendant Doe 1 and therefore sues this defendant pursuant to Section 474 of the California Code of Civil Procedure," the suit states. "Apple will amend this Complaint to state the true name of this defendant once Apple discovers this information."

The legal document also claims that Apple is in the midst of pursuing "Does 2 through 25," and will launch action under the current suit when their identities are known."

The lawsuit charges each unknown source with damages sprouting from unauthorized public access to Apple products under development.

"In Apple's experience, public knowledge of future products often lesses sales of existing Apple products," the document states. "As a result, Apple maintains and protects Future Product Information as a trade secret."

In addition to listing all "reasonable" measures that the company has taken to protect "trade secrets," the suit mentions that every employee must sign an "Intellectual Property Agreement," which was obviously breached in this case.

The company claims that "beginning in or about February 2000, Doe 1, alone or in concert with Does 2 through 25, began disseminating Apple Future Product Information to the public. Among other things, Defendant or Defendants posted digital images of undisclosed future Apple products on publicly accessible areas of the Internet."

More specifically, the source is said to have posted images of the Apple Pro Mouse and dual-processor G4 machines to rumor-based forums.

No mention of the G4 Cube was noted in legal documents released today, however, an all-encompassing paragraph does recognize that the source has "publicly posted trade secret information about other Apple products that Apple has not publicly released or disclosed as of the date of the filing of this Complaint."

The company alleges that the source gave information out via "improper means such as theft, bribery, misrepresentation, breach or inducement of a breach of a duty to maintain secrecy, and/or espionage."

Damages were also requested, though no set amount has yet been established. "The amount of such damages cannot be proven at this time but will be proven at trial," the document claims. "Apple is further entitled to recover from Doe 1 the gains, profits, and advantages that Doe 1 obtained as a result of the misappropriation alleged herein."

The suit also indicates that actions by the source "were both willful and malicious," and requests "an injunction restraining the Doe 1 from misappropriating Apple's trade secret Future Product Information."

The company claims that without successful legal measures, they will be hurt in a competitive market. "Apple will suffer great and irreparable harm and damage, which damage will be difficult to ascertain, and Apple will be without an adequate remedy at law."

Apple had no comment at press on the matter.
O'Melveny & Myers LLP is representing Apple in the case.


Im surprised the connection has not been made publicly yet.

ogun7
Dec 13, 2002, 08:48 PM
Look, the rumor sites help Apple. Does anyone with half a brain here think that only MacGeeks like us are the only ones who read these rumor sites? These sites are read by people in the mainstream media, (some of who post here, I can even attest to this personally). All companies (and even some individuals) use publicity to their advantage and even profit, and Apple exists to generate profit. I do have a problem if MacRumors or any rumor site which relies on confidential info leaked by others offers up those sources to parties that can hamper them legally. If it wasn't for these slackjaws, there wouldn't be any rumor sites, or the meager ad money that they generate to keep their sites up. Let's face it, Apple benefits from rumor sites, how many Dell Rumors.com's are there ?!?!

XxflipperxX
Dec 15, 2002, 04:25 PM
Originally posted by usersince86
Apple has a point with this.

And even though it's not exactly the same:
* So does Apple with Microsoft.
* So do many companies with Microsoft.
* So does Xerox with Apple.
* etc.

Xerox and Apple??? How do you figure? Xerox gave Apple all the stuff Jobs could 'remember' in return for Xerox being able to purchase a million $$$ in Apple stock at insider prices... that was, what, late '82? Have any idea what Xerox's stock in Apple is worth today? Do some research....
:)

pretentious
Dec 15, 2002, 07:28 PM
Look, the rumor sites help Apple. Does anyone with half a brain here think that only MacGeeks like us are the only ones who read these rumor sites? These sites are read by people in the mainstream media, (some of who post here, I can even attest to this personally). All companies (and even some individuals) use publicity to their advantage and even profit, and Apple exists to generate profit. I do have a problem if MacRumors or any rumor site which relies on confidential info leaked by others offers up those sources to parties that can hamper them legally. If it wasn't for these slackjaws, there wouldn't be any rumor sites, or the meager ad money that they generate to keep their sites up. Let's face it, Apple benefits from rumor sites, how many Dell Rumors.com's are there ?!?!

No wrong, at least in this case. The user in this case started posting in a half-arse way, w/o the approval of MacRumors and in doing so he wasn't a source in the since of say a news site. So when the gentleman in question decided to just post it upon the forums he do so at his own merits, and MR was under no obligation to keep this person secret, especially. if what he was doing something illegal, which he was.

Now had APPLEP58 given the information to MR and then had MR posted up the info up as news, Arn/MR would have been under no obligation to give up their sources. And even then I have never seen MacRumors post up actual PDFs or blazing new pictures of yet to be released products up on their website from these sources that they have. Not saying that they haven't posted PDFs and pictures, but I haven't ever seen it ever done threw a supposed "Anonymous Source". If they did so they could be left up to scrutiny and lose credibility, and personally I find MR the most credible rumor sites out there.

So I see no problem with MacRumors giving up one poster's name that wanted to so desperately to void his confidentiality contract w/ Apple just so he can be "kewl". APPLEP58 knew what he was doing when he posted and he should of taken the right precautions, he didn't so screw him. No company should have an employee that would drop corporate secrets at the drop of a hat, nor should any rumors site should ever be able to trust someone like that, that being someone who gives info out so freely that could hurt a company it respects. Rumors are done threw out of love for someone or something, it should never go on to hurt that very thing.

groovebuster
Dec 16, 2002, 10:31 AM
Originally posted by Dr. Distortion
I think Groovebuster owes this guy an apology, looking at how he treated him in that thread... Better think twice before taking on such a guy in the future Groovebuster!

-Dr. D.

That (apology) happened already a long time ago. Interesting how self-righteous people become on things like that. And that apology is something that is really none of your business.

I see some people called me an ******* in here! .... I couldn't care less, but it shows that they are not better than the person they want to see in me.

And to Mr. Distorted again... my behaviour has nothing to do with him being a criminal. I don't owe him anything as well as he doesn't owe anything to me. If he is so stupid to break the law just to get a little bit attention, then it is his problem, but definately not mine.

Merry X-mas!

groovebuster

groovebuster
Dec 16, 2002, 11:45 AM
Originally posted by dukestreet
Groovebuster needed to do that a long time ago.

Can you please help me on that one...

Does that mean it would have been better (what is crap, because I did and especially you know, since we exchanged PMs about it)...

Or does that mean I was forced to do so (what is also BS, because you were asking me friendly if I could possibly do that and I agreed without hesitating right away, but how you would have put pressure on me anyway?)?

groovebuster