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MacRumors
Mar 19, 2013, 01:16 PM
http://images.macrumors.com/im/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2013/03/19/sapphire-launches-radeon-hd-7950-mac-edition-graphics-card-for-mac-pro/)


After previewing (http://www.macrumors.com/2013/03/05/sapphire-previews-radeon-hd-7950-mac-edition-graphics-card-for-mac-pro/) its Radeon HD 7950 Mac Edition graphics card at CeBIT earlier this month, Sapphire Technology today officially announced (http://www.sapphiretech.com/presentation/media/media_index.aspx?psn=0004&articleID=5083&lid=1) the launch of the new card.

http://images.macrumors.com/article-new/2013/03/sapphire_radeon_7950_mac.jpgExclusive to SAPPHIRE, the HD 7950 Mac Edition is based on AMD's latest Graphics Core Next (GCN) architecture. This highly acclaimed architecture delivers a significant graphics performance boost for Mac Pro users in a wide range of applications including gaming, audio or video editing and content creation. For example, gaming frame rates are increased by over 200%, general benchmark performance increased by around 30% and graphics intensive benchmarks increased by as much as 300% compared with the NV 8800GT commonly used in these machines (SAPPHIRE internal data).

The SAPPHIRE HD 7950 Mac Edition is equipped with 3GB of the latest GDDR5 memory, and its Dual Asynchronous Compute Engines (ACE) deliver up to 2.87 TFLOPS Single Precision compute power. It provides hardware support for Open GL 4.2 and Open CL 1.2 as well as AMD HD3D technology and APP acceleration.The new Mac Edition card contains a switchable BIOS that allows it to be used in either a Mac or a PC, and offers an HDMI port with 3D support, two Mini DisplayPort connectors, and a dual-link DVI port.

5ep08vaCUnE
Newegg.com is offering the Radeon HD 7950 Mac Edition (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=14-202-027) for $479.99 and has posted a video overview of the new card.

Article Link: Sapphire Launches Radeon HD 7950 Mac Edition Graphics Card for Mac Pro (http://www.macrumors.com/2013/03/19/sapphire-launches-radeon-hd-7950-mac-edition-graphics-card-for-mac-pro/)



jav6454
Mar 19, 2013, 01:19 PM
Ohhh, shinny...

Now this makes the Mac Pro, "Pro" again.

keysofanxiety
Mar 19, 2013, 01:20 PM
Mac Pro will be released during WWDC 2013 (June 10th). Can't wait. :D

Peace
Mar 19, 2013, 01:20 PM
Nice card. Too bad Apple doesn't support OpenGL 4.2

92jlee
Mar 19, 2013, 01:23 PM
Any news if this will work in our ancient 1,1s with 32bit EFI?

ArtOfWarfare
Mar 19, 2013, 01:24 PM
Just out of curiosity, is there any practical way to have this work with any Mac other than a Mac Pro? (Currently all my apps in development don't call for much graphics-wise, but it seems feasible that someday within the next 3 years I might want to make something more.)

jav6454
Mar 19, 2013, 01:28 PM
Any news if this will work in our ancient 1,1s with 32bit EFI?

Theoretically it should work. Software wise... dunno.

----------

Just out of curiosity, is there any practical way to have this work with any Mac other than a Mac Pro? (Currently all my apps in development don't call for much graphics-wise, but it seems feasible that someday within the next 3 years I might want to make something more.)

Yes and no. Yes because you would need a external PCIe slot with a direct connection to the Mac's motherboard. No, because in terms of space and connectivity, only the Mac Pro can.

Spacedust
Mar 19, 2013, 01:28 PM
Long screws on the back so it will fit only in slot 2.

dannyp1996
Mar 19, 2013, 01:28 PM
Am I the only person that noticed that the Saphire badge is upside down is this is installed in a Mac Pro? Seems that the cooler shroud is simply a PC version in a different colour!

Shirke
Mar 19, 2013, 01:31 PM
That would be great for Hackintosh

tdtran1025
Mar 19, 2013, 01:34 PM
Just out of curiosity, is there any practical way to have this work with any Mac other than a Mac Pro? (Currently all my apps in development don't call for much graphics-wise, but it seems feasible that someday within the next 3 years I might want to make something more.)

What do u mean? If not Macpro, what Mac line would this fit in? If u have PC, Pc version is cheaper ny $100

----------

Thiseans new MP will retain physical form

----------

This means

bassfingers
Mar 19, 2013, 01:36 PM
Just out of curiosity, how does this compare to the card included in the mac pro?

Sneakz
Mar 19, 2013, 01:37 PM
That would be great for Hackintosh
Hackintosh community has had 7950/7970 up and running since last weeks 10.8.3 update.

jav6454
Mar 19, 2013, 01:39 PM
Just out of curiosity, how does this compare to the card included in the mac pro?

4 year old card vs year old card

melgross
Mar 19, 2013, 01:39 PM
This is awfully expensive for a 7950, 3GB memory notwithstanding.

DevoAtari
Mar 19, 2013, 01:40 PM
Yeah, the "Sapphire" name on the shroud being upside down is a pretty stupid decision in my opinion.

Normally I wouldn't care, because I'm usually the guy that removes the stock cooling shrouds with anything more efficient. But I've been wanting a slick, slim, powerful and cool-running GPU for a long time now.

If this runs quiet and cool, under load, I may just buy it.

Midphase
Mar 19, 2013, 01:44 PM
Yey, time for AMD to charge Mac users an $180 penalty tax for no particular reason (the drivers are already built-into OS 10.8.3).

Makes me glad that I switched to a Hackintosh!

eva01
Mar 19, 2013, 01:46 PM
It's cheaper on amazon incase anyone was curious. 450 with free shipping. They just don't currently have it in stock.

jav6454
Mar 19, 2013, 01:46 PM
Yey, time for AMD to charge Mac users an $180 penalty tax for no particular reason (the drivers are already built-into OS 10.8.3).

Makes me glad that I switched to a Hackintosh!

.... aaaand Apple doesn't charge a tax? :confused:

leman
Mar 19, 2013, 01:47 PM
Almost 60% premium for some white paint and a custom ROM? :(

anedwar
Mar 19, 2013, 01:48 PM
it's in my cart. just have to press buy :)

Getting a dog and a new graphics card while my wife is out of state.
Kids, this is what living on the edge is like when you get old.

e-coli
Mar 19, 2013, 01:49 PM
I can't be the only person who thinks these giant, power hungry, heat producing beasts are going the way of the dinosaur.

We need a graphics processing revolution similar to the ARM revolution.

HurtinMinorKey
Mar 19, 2013, 01:53 PM
Too bad everyone uses Nvidia these days...

It'll make a nice paperweight though.

BigJohno
Mar 19, 2013, 01:55 PM
EFI Boot screen?

Peace
Mar 19, 2013, 01:58 PM
I can't be the only person who thinks these giant, power hungry, heat producing beasts are going the way of the dinosaur.

We need a graphics processing revolution similar to the ARM revolution.

Might want to read this then :

http://www.engadget.com/2013/03/19/nvidia-roadmap-volta-gpu/

ArchAndroid
Mar 19, 2013, 02:06 PM
Too bad everyone uses Nvidia these days...

It'll make a nice paperweight though.

That's funny because at every price point in the gaming segment except the $1000 one, nVidia is outgunned by AMD:

Titan = performance king
7970GE > 680
7970 > 670
7950 > 660Ti
7870 > 660
7850 >>> 650Ti
et cetera

But whatever :rolleyes:

Porco
Mar 19, 2013, 02:11 PM
I could be wrong, but I believe 'Mac Edition' is a curious modern-day spelling of an ancient lost phrase from the old world that roughly translated means 'price-gouging exploitation of those who bear apples'.

george-brooks
Mar 19, 2013, 02:11 PM
This looks so awesome. Too bad I just upgraded from an ancient 2600XT for a 5870 about 6 months ago. Maybe someone can answer a couple questions.

Is this going to work in 2008 models? The current gen cards aren't technically supported before 2009 but they work anyways. Same case here?

I'm doing some heavy duty video and photography as well as some graphic design. Worth the upgrade?

Bwa
Mar 19, 2013, 02:16 PM
I bought one. Excited.

Unggoy Murderer
Mar 19, 2013, 02:19 PM
it's in my cart. just have to press buy :)

Getting a dog and a new graphics card while my wife is out of state.
Kids, this is what living on the edge is like when you get old.

Reminds me of this: MacRumours.com Article (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/03/18/ipad-2-wife-says-no-but-apple-says-yes/)

MacRumorUser
Mar 19, 2013, 02:29 PM
Is this going to work in 2008 models? The current gen cards aren't technically supported before 2009 but they work anyways. Same case here?

I'm doing some heavy duty video and photography as well as some graphic design. Worth the upgrade?

Was wondering the same thing, also is there any reason to buy the mac edition at €500 here when I can buy a Sapphire Radeon reference 7950 for €200 on PC - other than bootscreen ?

Plutonius
Mar 19, 2013, 02:32 PM
Was wondering the same thing, also is there any reason to buy the mac edition at €500 here when I can buy a Sapphire Radeon reference 7950 for €200 on PC - other than bootscreen ?

Probably not but then again, I would get the more expensive one for the bootscreen.

skunkworker
Mar 19, 2013, 02:32 PM
on newegg.com the similar Sapphire 7950 3gb cards go for around $300-329. So paying only $150 more for the mac edition isnt too bad. What I am more excited about is being able to run regular 7950s in a Hackintosh now that the drivers are there.

MacsRgr8
Mar 19, 2013, 02:34 PM
Crap:
The SAPPHIRE HD 7950 Mac Edition is compatible with Apple Mac Pro models from 2010 and later with an available PCI-Express x16 slot. Two six-pin power cables required are supplied with the card. A driver disk is provided which enables the card to be used with Mac OS X 10.7.5 (Lion), 10.8.2 (Mountain Lion) or later.

From here (http://www.sapphiretech.com/presentation/media/media_index.aspx?psn=0004&articleID=5083&lid=1)

So, no support or does it not work with the 2008 Mac Pro?

Plutonius
Mar 19, 2013, 02:40 PM
Crap:


From here (http://www.sapphiretech.com/presentation/media/media_index.aspx?psn=0004&articleID=5083&lid=1)

So, no support or does it not work with the 2008 Mac Pro?

Wait a few weeks and we will know. What does the 2010 MP have that the previous gen didn't have ?

MacRumorUser
Mar 19, 2013, 02:43 PM
Crap:


From here (http://www.sapphiretech.com/presentation/media/media_index.aspx?psn=0004&articleID=5083&lid=1)

So, no support or does it not work with the 2008 Mac Pro?


The 5870 said the same thing, but it worked without official support. The PC 7950's seem to work on MacPro 3.1 according to some posts over in the macpro section, so why wouldn't the official mac version ?

I imagine it's just not officially supported rather than not capable.

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Probably not but then again, I would get the more expensive one for the bootscreen.

€300 for a bootscreen .... I'm not that big a fan :p

definitive
Mar 19, 2013, 02:44 PM
lol such a ridiculous price. they saw an opportunity to make an extra buck, and they jumped on it.

MacsRgr8
Mar 19, 2013, 02:49 PM
The 5870 said the same thing, but it worked without official support. The PC 7950's seem to work on MacPro 3.1 according to some posts over in the macpro section, so why wouldn't the official mac version ?

I imagine it's just not officially supported rather than not capable.

It was Apple that didn't want the 5870 to be supported on earlier Mac Pro models. And I understand their reasoning as it isn't in Apple's interest to support older models.

In this case it's the supplier of the card itself. That makes be a bit sceptic. If the Mac Pro 3.1 (or even 1.1) were listed as supported, I'm sure that they would simply sell more.

Simply wait and see.
Maybe Barefeats (http://www.barefeats.com/gpu7950.html) can help out!

mdorais
Mar 19, 2013, 02:53 PM
This just convinced me to hold off on buying an iMac and wait for the new Mac Pro announcement (hopefully in June).

beez1717
Mar 19, 2013, 02:59 PM
I might get this if there were an external graphics card bay for TB so it could work on my 15' rMBP!

baller1308
Mar 19, 2013, 03:00 PM
Too bad everyone uses Nvidia these days...

It'll make a nice paperweight though.
Price for performance, I think AMD wins. While Nvidia is still more popular, AMD has come a long way. Nvidia has good drivers though.

ConCat
Mar 19, 2013, 03:08 PM
I could be wrong, but I believe 'Mac Edition' is a curious modern-day spelling of an ancient lost phrase from the old world that roughly translated means 'price-gouging exploitation of those who bear apples'.

At one point there was good reason for the "Mac Edition" branding (PPC macs). These days though, not so much. The cards are nearly (if not completely) identical, and certainly don't need to be sold as a different card.

MacsRgr8
Mar 19, 2013, 03:09 PM
Price for performance, I think AMD wins. While Nvidia is still more popular, AMD has come a long way. Nvidia has good drivers though.

AMD has done, and is doing very well in OS X.

I prefer AMD to nVidia.

thekev
Mar 19, 2013, 03:38 PM
I can't be the only person who thinks these giant, power hungry, heat producing beasts are going the way of the dinosaur.

We need a graphics processing revolution similar to the ARM revolution.

Performance per watt has been a significant point for some time. What kind of a revolution do you perceive on the other end? ARM didn't wipe out the use of 130W cpus. There are IGPs and GPUs down to 10-20W. It goes even lower if you look at parts used in SOCs. What are you suggesting?

This just convinced me to hold off on buying an iMac and wait for the new Mac Pro announcement (hopefully in June).

If they really do wait until Ivy and based their deadlines around that, June would not be a viable target date. The tech sites are claiming Q4 (http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/display/20130308143302_Intel_Delays_Next_Generation_Core_i7_Extreme_Ivy_Bridge_E_Chip_Report.html)on shipping. Sandy Bridge E wasn't shipping in oem machines until June-July of last year. Assuming lower demand than HP, Dell, etc. they might turn up more aggressive shipping times, but I wouldn't buy into the kool-aid of "Apple gets everything first". It's propagated by misinterpreted information.

HurtinMinorKey
Mar 19, 2013, 03:38 PM
That's funny because at every price point in the gaming segment except the $1000 one, nVidia is outgunned by AMD:

Titan = performance king
7970GE > 680
7970 > 670
7950 > 660Ti
7870 > 660
7850 >>> 650Ti
et cetera

But whatever :rolleyes:

Gaming? I didn't know anyone used Mac Pros for serious gaming.

I was talking about the widespread adoption of CUDA by software developers across the board. So no, the AMD cards don't come close in a price/performance comparison in those applications.

But if your building something to play Battlefield 3, your wasting your money on a Mac from the get-go.

kinless
Mar 19, 2013, 03:46 PM
It was Apple that didn't want the 5870 to be supported on earlier Mac Pro models. And I understand their reasoning as it isn't in Apple's interest to support older models.

In this case it's the supplier of the card itself. That makes be a bit sceptic. If the Mac Pro 3.1 (or even 1.1) were listed as supported, I'm sure that they would simply sell more.

Simply wait and see.
Maybe Barefeats (http://www.barefeats.com/gpu7950.html) can help out!

Barefeats to the rescue:

http://www.barefeats.com/gpu7950.html

They're saying it is "compatible with all models 2008 - 2012" (although you need to run 10.8.3 or later), so there's your unofficial response. Tempted to get this for my own 2008 Mac Pro.

Rocketman
Mar 19, 2013, 03:57 PM
Barefeats to the rescue:

http://www.barefeats.com/gpu7950.html

They're saying it is "compatible with all models 2008 - 2012" (although you need to run 10.8.3 or later), so there's your unofficial response. Tempted to get this for my own 2008 Mac Pro.

The iMac 2012 graphics card performance is comparable to this release. The $400 card cost could offset most of the net cost of an iMac (subtracting for monitor, keyboard, mouse). The 2012 iMac is a sleeper speedster.

The two iMac GPUs (the GTX 675MX and 680MX) were embedded in the 'Late 2012' (27") iMac 3.4GHz Core i7. All Macs were running OS X 10.8.3. Furthermore:

http://www.vidmuze.com/how-to-enable-gpu-cuda-in-adobe-cs6-for-mac/

I take just six minutes to show you how to complete this on a Mac.

Now, let me also say, not every video card (Nvidia Geforce) will work. There are still some requirements.

1. Your videocard must be Nvidia (Supports CUDA). At this time, ATI does not work.
2. Your videocard needs to have at least 896MB of onboard memory.
3. Your memory needs to be DDR3 or DDR5. DDR2 is too slow and you will see performance issues in Premiere Pro.

You can download the following ZIP file that includes all of the required steps for the modification.

It's still 2 grand.

http://www.powermax.com/parts/show/c-nim-z0ms-2v

Just Rocketman

star-affinity
Mar 19, 2013, 03:58 PM
I remember reading this online:

”Most people don't realize that Mountain Lion opened up Mac Pros so they can use any NVidia PC card right out of the box. We upgraded most of our older Mac Pros to NVidia GeForce GTX 640's. Plugged them in..... whamo!.. the work flawlessly.”

I don't have the link to were I read this anymore, but that's what someone wrote.

MacsRgr8
Mar 19, 2013, 03:59 PM
Barefeats to the rescue:

http://www.barefeats.com/gpu7950.html

They're saying it is "compatible with all models 2008 - 2012" (although you need to run 10.8.3 or later), so there's your unofficial response. Tempted to get this for my own 2008 Mac Pro.

Thankyou!!

Yep... will be getting it for my '08 Mac Pro for sure!

Plutonius
Mar 19, 2013, 04:02 PM
Barefeats to the rescue:

http://www.barefeats.com/gpu7950.html

They're saying it is "compatible with all models 2008 - 2012" (although you need to run 10.8.3 or later), so there's your unofficial response. Tempted to get this for my own 2008 Mac Pro.

I'm not sure I'll get one now after seeing the benchmarks.

thekev
Mar 19, 2013, 04:14 PM
Gaming? I didn't know anyone used Mac Pros for serious gaming.

I was talking about the widespread adoption of CUDA by software developers across the board. So no, the AMD cards don't come close in a price/performance comparison in those applications.

But if your building something to play Battlefield 3, your wasting your money on a Mac from the get-go.


Some of those developers have been working on OpenCL support for Macs. Davinci Resolve has OpenCL support on Macs only.

I'm not sure I'll get one now after seeing the benchmarks.

This is a version 1 driver. Give it some time. Also gaming benchmarks are dumb unless you were planning to buy it for that specific purpose. That will be applicable for a few people as a secondary use, but it probably isn't that common. Maybe it could be a bit more common at the moment with the availability of used 2009-2010 models but still not that common.

Drinahn
Mar 19, 2013, 04:22 PM
Barefeats to the rescue:

http://www.barefeats.com/gpu7950.html

They're saying it is "compatible with all models 2008 - 2012" (although you need to run 10.8.3 or later), so there's your unofficial response. Tempted to get this for my own 2008 Mac Pro.

Hmm, I assume this means they've actually tested it in a 2008 and 2009. I might wait a little while before I take the plunge for my 2009 model!

Kissaragi
Mar 19, 2013, 04:27 PM
Anyone heard anything about UK availability yet?

DesterWallaboo
Mar 19, 2013, 04:34 PM
Nice card. Too bad Apple doesn't support OpenGL 4.2

Seriously..... Apple is so far behind the curve on OpenGL it's embarrassing.

----------

Gaming? I didn't know anyone used Mac Pros for serious gaming.

I was talking about the widespread adoption of CUDA by software developers across the board. So no, the AMD cards don't come close in a price/performance comparison in those applications.

But if your building something to play Battlefield 3, your wasting your money on a Mac from the get-go.

Actually... AMD OpenCL and NVidia CUDA are super close performance-wise. In fact, I wish NVidia was simply drop CUDA and go full-blown OpenCL. If you look at CUDA vs OpenCL online, you'll find they both have strengths and weaknesses.

Michael73
Mar 19, 2013, 04:36 PM
Think I'll wait. It's a nice card but my MP 3,1 is getting a little long in the tooth and I don't feel like throwing any money in it assuming a new MP is around the corner.

audio_inside
Mar 19, 2013, 04:38 PM
Any news if this will work in our ancient 1,1s with 32bit EFI?

Probably - if you can live without the boot screen on SL or if you can get ML running on your 1,1.

wildmac
Mar 19, 2013, 04:44 PM
Crap:


From here (http://www.sapphiretech.com/presentation/media/media_index.aspx?psn=0004&articleID=5083&lid=1)

So, no support or does it not work with the 2008 Mac Pro?

Let's put it this way... if your old MacPro doesn't support 10.8.x, then you are screwed.

If mine was new enough that it still supported 10.8, I'd buy this, another 8GB of ram, and say screw buying a new system.

92jlee
Mar 19, 2013, 04:45 PM
Probably - if you can live without the boot screen on SL or if you can get ML running on your 1,1.

If I didn't want the boot screen could just stick a PC one in there. Running a 6870 on 10.7 but I really would like the boot screen.

HurtinMinorKey
Mar 19, 2013, 04:58 PM
Some of those developers have been working on OpenCL support for Macs. Davinci Resolve has OpenCL support on Macs only.


Since you mention Resolve, here is an excerpt from their Mac config guide(bottom page 4):

"NVIDIA CUDA-based GPU cards should continue to be used with Mac Pro computers as CUDA provides much faster image processing than
OpenCL, and also supports noise reduction"

flipnode
Mar 19, 2013, 06:48 PM
Long screws on the back so it will fit only in slot 2.

Most likely not an issue.

I have a Sapphire 7950 (http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814202006) PC card with the same type of screws mounting the cooler in my 2008 MP and it's fine in slot 1.

I think MacVidCards also confirmed something along the same lines in another thread.

toke lahti
Mar 19, 2013, 07:32 PM
Could this work in MP's from 2006-2007 (1,1 & 2,1)?

rGiskard
Mar 19, 2013, 07:43 PM
I remember reading this online:

”Most people don't realize that Mountain Lion opened up Mac Pros so they can use any NVidia PC card right out of the box. We upgraded most of our older Mac Pros to NVidia GeForce GTX 640's. Plugged them in..... whamo!.. the work flawlessly.”

I don't have the link to were I read this anymore, but that's what someone wrote.

They will work but without EFI bootscreen support. Not sure about DVD Player support.

I wonder if this 7950 foretells a new Mac Pro with a white color scheme?

Also, will the new Mac Pro supply enough power via PCIe power cables to run a 7970? Maybe not because it wouldn't be as thin.

ppdix
Mar 19, 2013, 08:27 PM
I have a 12-Core 2.66Ghz 2010 Mac Pro with 32GB of RAM, a PCIe 2.0 X16 with a Radeon HD 5770 1GB Video Card attached to 2 LED Cinema Displays (One Vertical) Yes, the vertical makes a HUUUUUGGEEEE difference since the single card has to "rotate" the images in real time so the display performance suffers.
Does anyone know if this card will actually make a difference since there is a limitation on the 2.0?
Hopefully :apple: will release a new Mac Pro this year with PCIe 3.0 but who knows... They might axe the whole Mac Pro Line all together in favor of cheap and consumer oriented Macs... :confused:
Anyway. I am not a gamer. I am a photographer so I need video speed in Photoshop and Aperture which since Mountain Lion, struggles a little...
I can't use the Sapphire together with the 5770 cause they won't fit.
Please advice.

Cheers

Patrick

holmesf
Mar 19, 2013, 08:44 PM
Seriously..... Apple is so far behind the curve on OpenGL it's embarrassing.

----------



Actually... AMD OpenCL and NVidia CUDA are super close performance-wise. In fact, I wish NVidia was simply drop CUDA and go full-blown OpenCL. If you look at CUDA vs OpenCL online, you'll find they both have strengths and weaknesses.

CUDA is years ahead of OpenCL in terms of features (dynamic parallelism standing out the most). Don't get me wrong, I'm glad that OpenCL exists as a vendor neutral standard, but so long as the GPU market continues to evolve quickly, CUDA has its place.

alphaod
Mar 19, 2013, 09:02 PM
Sadly, we are getting ripped off as usual… and I'm buying it anyways.

DrNeroCF
Mar 19, 2013, 09:12 PM
This is only slightly faster than the GTX 570 that I have stuffed in my 1,1 Mac Pro that's half the price.

Is a boot screen really that important?

DesterWallaboo
Mar 19, 2013, 09:16 PM
This is only slightly faster than the GTX 570 that I have stuffed in my 1,1 Mac Pro that's half the price.

Is a boot screen really that important?

I hear ya... I'm running a GTX 660 Ti and I saw this announcement... kind of brought a bit of a yawn.

However... Radeon's are typically better at higher FPS with higher resolutions and antialiasing than NVidia.

Squishy Tia
Mar 19, 2013, 10:01 PM
The Sapphire website description mentions 10.7.5 being one of the supported OSes. If this is the case, then why would 10.8.3 be necessary to run it on any Mac Pro?

That's what's bugging me at the moment...

alphaod
Mar 19, 2013, 10:20 PM
The Sapphire website description mentions 10.7.5 being one of the supported OSes. If this is the case, then why would 10.8.3 be necessary to run it on any Mac Pro?

That's what's bugging me at the moment...

I'm thinking all the versions from 10.7.5 onward are supported, but you need to install the drivers from the included DVD first; only with 10.8.3 is the driver installed by default.

Squishy Tia
Mar 19, 2013, 10:26 PM
I'm thinking all the versions from 10.7.5 onward are supported, but you need to install the drivers from the included DVD first; only with 10.8.3 is the driver installed by default.

Makes sense. Not that I would have a problem with 10.8.3, since it shouldn't be hard to update my 10.8.2 partition to 10.8.3, despite being on a Mac Pro 1,1.

Thank goodness I made an image of my virgin 10.8.2 install should anything go wrong. Saves me from ever having to redo it again by hand.

50voltphantom
Mar 19, 2013, 10:40 PM
Holy crud, Mac Pro-related news. I use a mini but stuff like this makes me happy.

mflender
Mar 19, 2013, 10:46 PM
Just out of curiosity, is there any practical way to have this work with any Mac other than a Mac Pro? (Currently all my apps in development don't call for much graphics-wise, but it seems feasible that someday within the next 3 years I might want to make something more.)

Yes. if your mac has thunderbolt you could use one of these thunderbolt to pcie expansion boxes.
http://www.magma.com/expressbox-3t
http://www.sonnettech.com/product//echoexpresschassis.html

Codyak
Mar 19, 2013, 11:00 PM
My custom "Mac" runs a 680 with no issue. Also what the hell is with the price premium on this??

thekev
Mar 19, 2013, 11:04 PM
Since you mention Resolve, here is an excerpt from their Mac config guide(bottom page 4):

"NVIDIA CUDA-based GPU cards should continue to be used with Mac Pro computers as CUDA provides much faster image processing than
OpenCL, and also supports noise reduction"

Thanks. Yeah I'm not totally surprised. CUDA is likely more mature at this point.

JM-Prod
Mar 19, 2013, 11:43 PM
It's cheaper on amazon incase anyone was curious. 450 with free shipping. They just don't currently have it in stock.

Complaining is what complainers do... I'm ****ing happy that a company finally released an up to date card for the niche MacPro market. Actually two companies just did. Nvidia with their K5000 for Mac, and now Sapphire. This is really good news. Who cares if it cost a hundred bucks more than the PC version? If your cheap, you don't use a MacPro anyways. Take a look at the prices for the K5000 while your at it.

JM-Prod
Mar 20, 2013, 12:07 AM
Seriously..... Apple is so far behind the curve on OpenGL it's embarrassing.[COLOR="#808080"]


I just noticed. It never crossed my mind that OpenGL could be lagging on the Mac, as it's the primary API for 3d graphics on the Mac, unlike Windows and Direct3D.

What happened, why is Apple not at the cutting edge of OpenGL development?

I've just learned that the primary reason for Mari, the texture paint solution used on Gollum and the blue trolls and machinery in Avatar, not being supported on the Mac is the poor OpenGL support in OSX.

Squishy Tia
Mar 20, 2013, 12:30 AM
My custom "Mac" runs a 680 with no issue. Also what the hell is with the price premium on this??

I take it you didn't take a look at the specs on the card. It has Dual BIOS capability, meaning that there are two specific and distinct BIOS EEPROMs on the card. One is for Windows 7 UEFI booting, and the other is for "Legacy" mode BIOS/EFI booting, otherwise known as an "EBC", or EFI/BIOS Combination ROM, used for mixed Boot Camp/OS X booting. This is controlled by a switch on the card to select which BIOS is used at bootup.

Getting a "boot screen" and/or bootable capable ROM on a card of any type isn't the easiest thing in the world to do for Mac Pros, otherwise the cheapo RAID controllers would all be bootable. Much of the price difference is going to be going toward R&D (software/firmware) and the extra BIOS components on the card.

And even with its premium, relatively speaking, it's still a better bargain for its time than even the 5870 was, considering that card was $550 at launch (and still is unless you find a sale on it).

At least now we have another option. My main question at this point, aside from usability in a 1,1/2,1 Mac Pro, is why Sapphire went with the 7950 instead of the 7970 GHz Edition. That would have been truly worth the premium.

simonmet
Mar 20, 2013, 01:00 AM
I'm not sure if this is enough of an upgrade to be worth replacing a Radeon HD 5870. It has a fair bit more graphics RAM, but why didn't they release a 7970 Mac Edition that has easily double the performance over the 5870?

Also why did it take them so long to release a Mac version of a card that's been out for over a year for PCs?

My first question was partly rhetorical because the 7970 requires 6 and 8-pin connectors whereas the Mac Pro only has two 6-pin power connectors available to the PCI slots. This is despite the Mac Pro's PSU being easily capable of supplying more, especially for single processor systems. People have done it successfully but their methods are far from elegant.

Sometimes Apple's design decisions baffle me. A cynic might even suggest deliberate crippling. Maybe they thought a 7970-class card would be too loud and hot and degrade the lifespan of other components in the system, but if you consider that the Mac Pro is one of the best, most spacious and well ventilated systems I know of then it makes that point a little less likely.

In Mac Pros the graphics card does sit under the hard drives so that could be their reasoning. I don't want my hard drives baking from a very hot card. Still, I would have definitely upgraded if they gave us a 7970 option.

I'm very disappointed in the state of graphics on the Mac. We get a year old card that costs a lot more than the PC version and it's something to be excited about..that's how sad the state of Mac Pro graphics is right now...

PS, my guess is that this will be the new base card for the next Mac Pro, which is actually pretty reasonable. If they can make a 7950 the base and 7970 the upgrade, then that is a big step up from the current systems as the 7950 outperforms the previous upgrade option.

Codyak
Mar 20, 2013, 01:15 AM
stuff

Sadly another reason to ignore the Mac Pro. I can get so much more performance off a custom built PC than the Mac Pro. I love using my rMBP and the Mac Pro's when available but the cost has come to the point that the price justification just makes zero sense. I'm sure there are a handful of programs that only run on Mac but those days are quickly coming to an end at least in the Industrial and Graphic Design field.

JM-Prod
Mar 20, 2013, 01:20 AM
My main question at this point, aside from usability in a 1,1/2,1 Mac Pro, is why Sapphire went with the 7950 instead of the 7970 GHz Edition. That would have been truly worth the premium.

Probably due to power constraints? The MacPro can at maximum support a graphics card of 225 watts, 75 watts from the PCI-slot and 75 watts from each of the 6-pins. However, I run a GTX580 3GB just fine, although drawing more power from the 6-pins than they are designed for.

----------

Sadly another reason to ignore the Mac Pro. I can get so much more performance off a custom built PC than the Mac Pro.

Only if you build a workstation with the current Xeon generation. But it will be much pricier than a MacPro 12-core.

Who custom builds Xeon workstations anyways? Why bother, when a tested and thrusted HP Z820 will probably be cheaper than a self built one.

In my opinion and based on experience, you are only asking for trouble and unstable machinery when doing a self-build workstation in this performance class.

rGiskard
Mar 20, 2013, 01:48 AM
Getting a "boot screen" and/or bootable capable ROM on a card of any type isn't the easiest thing in the world to do for Mac Pros, otherwise the cheapo RAID controllers would all be bootable. Much of the price difference is going to be going toward R&D (software/firmware) and the extra BIOS components on the card.


You make it sound as if Sapphire had to hire an army of hackers to reverse engineer Apple's EFI ROM deep within the bowls of Sapphire's state of the art Apple Mac Pro Research and Development Center. More likely it's 2 or 3 underpaid software dudes in some basement writing the ROM while in constant communication with Apple engineers. Most of the cost will be in the limited runs of Mac specific coolers, backplates, and ports.

Sapphire charges a premium for this card because they can. It's that simple.

Squishy Tia
Mar 20, 2013, 02:39 AM
You make it sound as if Sapphire had to hire an army of hackers to reverse engineer Apple's EFI ROM deep in the bowls of Sapphire's state of the art Apple Mac Pro Research and Development complex. More likely it's 2 or 3 underpaid software dudes in some basement writing the ROM while in constant communication with Apple engineers. Most of the cost will be in the limited runs of Mac specific coolers, backplates, and ports.

Sapphire charges a premium for this card because they can. It's that simple.

The ports are standard fare even on the PC side, so that part of your argument's shot. And Apple's EFI is their own version, based on EFI 2.0. It gets worse if you have a 1,1/2,1 Mac Pro which is the 1.0 spec before it became standard. There's a reason one BIOS is for Windows 7 UEFI and the other is an EBC, and it isn't for kicks and giggles.

The drivers are in-house from Apple. Vendors don't do driver updates for OS X on the graphics front. AMD certainly doesn't, at least not on their own - they work with Apple's software engineers, with the Apple folks doing the brunt of the heavy lifting.

Contrast this with the days of the HD3870 Mac Edition, where AMD made the drivers (and one last version of the ATI Displays software for OS X before it was all handed over to Apple). The 3870 Mac Edition was a Sapphire designed card BTW. Originally they were going to use an HiS board design, but it didn't pan out, so they went with Sapphire's design instead. I still have my 3870 here from before I got my 5770, and then a 5870 (giving the 5770 to a family member for their PC).

As for the cooler, the design is a stock design, and only the artwork/coloring is different. That's a minimal cost right there, and the backplates cost pennies as well. Given that the Mac Pro's PCIe Bay Fan blows directly onto the card, there wasn't a whole lot of engineering work that had to be done to maintain proper cooling. It's essentially the 5870's heatsink design.

MacsRgr8
Mar 20, 2013, 02:40 AM
Let's put it this way... if your old MacPro doesn't support 10.8.x, then you are screwed.

If mine was new enough that it still supported 10.8, I'd buy this, another 8GB of ram, and say screw buying a new system.

My 2008 Mac Pro supports 10.8.x fine.
It's running 10.8.3 perfectly. I've put 16 GB of RAM in it and it's still going strong.
Because I love X-Plane 10 I'd love to put the best grfx card in there. Now, I'm stuck with the 5870, and getting the 7950 will help a lot!

itsamacthing
Mar 20, 2013, 02:48 AM
Just out of curiosity, is there any practical way to have this work with any Mac other than a Mac Pro? (Currently all my apps in development don't call for much graphics-wise, but it seems feasible that someday within the next 3 years I might want to make something more.)

Do you have thunderbolt? There are thunderbolt to PCI solutions popping up, look in that direction - start with OWC (macsales)

Giuly
Mar 20, 2013, 05:48 AM
Do you have thunderbolt? There are thunderbolt to PCI solutions popping up, look in that direction - start with OWC (macsales)
None of them works with graphics cards though, because of driver constraints.

netkas
Mar 20, 2013, 06:42 AM
A lot of posts trying to explain dual-rom without knowing a thing.

There will be two roms, one for mac, with bios part (atombios is used, bios part is never launched actually) and efi part with support for UGA protocol for graphics output, as part of efi 1.1 specification

Another rom is bios (again for atombios) and uefi part with support for GOP protocol for graphics output, as part of efi/uefi 2.0 specification.

and EBC is efi byte code, and it can be used in both part, or can be not used. If it is used, then it's good new for macpro 1,1/2,1 owners who managed to install osx 10.8

ikir
Mar 20, 2013, 07:25 AM
Very powerful card but iMac 680MX is INCREDIBLE considering it is mobile.

http://www.barefeats.com/gpu7950.html

AnonMac50
Mar 20, 2013, 07:41 AM
Too bad everyone uses Nvidia these days...

It'll make a nice paperweight though.

I don't :)

Plutonius
Mar 20, 2013, 07:47 AM
Sadly another reason to ignore the Mac Pro. I can get so much more performance off a custom built PC than the Mac Pro. I love using my rMBP and the Mac Pro's when available but the cost has come to the point that the price justification just makes zero sense. I'm sure there are a handful of programs that only run on Mac but those days are quickly coming to an end at least in the Industrial and Graphic Design field.

Use what tool fits you best. If a custom built PC meets your needs, then go that route.

star-affinity
Mar 20, 2013, 08:06 AM
I'm sure there are a handful of programs that only run on Mac but those days are quickly coming to an end at least in the Industrial and Graphic Design field.

With the horrible font rendering (according to me and most graphic designers I'd say) in Windows and the clumsier workflow of Windows 8 (forcing tou into a touch GUI on a workstation) I don't know if I agree.

HurtinMinorKey
Mar 20, 2013, 08:29 AM
With the horrible font rendering (according to me and most graphic designers I'd say) in Windows and the clumsier workflow of Windows 8 (forcing tou into a touch GUI on a workstation) I don't know if I agree.

You know windows 8 doesn't force you to use touch GUI? It's an option.

AnonMac50
Mar 20, 2013, 08:31 AM
I could be wrong, but I believe 'Mac Edition' is a curious modern-day spelling of an ancient lost phrase from the old world that roughly translated means 'price-gouging exploitation of those who bear apples'.

Yes, I think you're right, I believe I read about this once in a text book or something. I think it was talking about North American apples specifically as well.

jabbawok
Mar 20, 2013, 08:53 AM
You know windows 8 doesn't force you to use touch GUI? It's an option.

What is the other option to what was once called Metro? How do you switch to it?
The only options I've seen so far are 3rd party Start menu emulators.

HurtinMinorKey
Mar 20, 2013, 09:02 AM
What is the other option to what was once called Metro? How do you switch to it?
The only options I've seen so far are 3rd party Start menu emulators.

You only need the emulators if you want the old windows start button, but everything else will default to mouse and keyboard if you don't have a touchscreen.

winston1236
Mar 20, 2013, 09:18 AM
I could be wrong, but I believe 'Mac Edition' is a curious modern-day spelling of an ancient lost phrase from the old world that roughly translated means 'price-gouging exploitation of those who bear apples'.

Maybe. But if you're willing to spend 4000 on a 4 year old machine then most people would assume you're wiling to also overpay for other items.

cgc
Mar 20, 2013, 09:38 AM
What is the other option to what was once called Metro? How do you switch to it?
The only options I've seen so far are 3rd party Start menu emulators.

You can still click on the tiles in Metro using an antiquated thing we call a mouse.

Kissaragi
Mar 20, 2013, 09:46 AM
What is the other option to what was once called Metro? How do you switch to it?
The only options I've seen so far are 3rd party Start menu emulators.

well theres those 3rd party Start menu emulators that would do it....:confused:

Atlantico
Mar 20, 2013, 10:02 AM
That's funny because at every price point in the gaming segment except the $1000 one, nVidia is outgunned by AMD:

Titan = performance king
7970GE > 680
7970 > 670
7950 > 660Ti
7870 > 660
7850 >>> 650Ti
et cetera

But whatever :rolleyes:

Indeed, though my overclocked 7950 matches and exceeds a stock 670 any day ;)

The 7970 and the 680 are pretty much neck in neck in my experience. Except the 7970 is cheaper and has better drivers (at least on the Peezoid, the Catalyst drivers are way better than what NVidia offers)

I'm really happy to see the 7950 arrive on the Mac, it's damn fine card :)

Atlantico
Mar 20, 2013, 10:16 AM
With the horrible font rendering (according to me and most graphic designers I'd say) in Windows and the clumsier workflow of Windows 8 (forcing tou into a touch GUI on a workstation) I don't know if I agree.

You don't need to use the Tiles UI if you don't want and you can use alternative text rendering engines, such as MacType (https://code.google.com/p/mactype/) to get the same experience as on a Mac. :cool:

rGiskard
Mar 20, 2013, 10:29 AM
The ports are standard fare even on the PC side, so that part of your argument's shot.

No, the standard port configuration on this card is two DVI ports, two mini DisplayPorts, and an HDMI port. This card requires a different backplate and DVI port assembly.

The drivers are in-house from Apple. Vendors don't do driver updates for OS X on the graphics front. AMD certainly doesn't, at least not on their own - they work with Apple's software engineers, with the Apple folks doing the brunt of the heavy lifting.

Contrast this with the days of the HD3870 Mac Edition, where AMD made the drivers (and one last version of the ATI Displays software for OS X before it was all handed over to Apple). The 3870 Mac Edition was a Sapphire designed card BTW. Originally they were going to use an HiS board design, but it didn't pan out, so they went with Sapphire's design instead. I still have my 3870 here from before I got my 5770, and then a 5870 (giving the 5770 to a family member for their PC).

As for the cooler, the design is a stock design, and only the artwork/coloring is different. That's a minimal cost right there, and the backplates cost pennies as well. Given that the Mac Pro's PCIe Bay Fan blows directly onto the card, there wasn't a whole lot of engineering work that had to be done to maintain proper cooling. It's essentially the 5870's heatsink design.

All you did here was elaborate on my argument that this card cost Sapphire virtual nothing to develop. The extra costs are primarily associated with retooling to produce a different cooler and port configuration. So my argument is not "shot" as you say.

The cost of this 7950 is based on demand, not development costs.

sputnikv
Mar 20, 2013, 10:34 AM
there's contradictory information regarding compatibility from their website. in the product description, they say this is compatible with 2010 mac pros onward while in a more obscure spec page they say the 2009 mac pros are supported. surely if the later is true, the former is as well

Navdakilla
Mar 20, 2013, 10:41 AM
Beast.. now all we need is a mac pro update! :):D

rGiskard
Mar 20, 2013, 10:42 AM
Very powerful card but iMac 680MX is INCREDIBLE considering it is mobile.

http://www.barefeats.com/gpu7950.html

I vaguely recall Apple using both ATI and Nvidia video card options on a Power Mac for one model year. Perhaps for the new Mac Pro they will use Radeon HD 7xxx as the low end video card with an honest desktop GTX 680 for the high end? There is the Quadro K5000 but it would be nice to have a consumer version priced between the usual crap video card and the 3D production card that are offered OEM in the Mac Pro.

100Daily
Mar 20, 2013, 10:48 AM
New Egg is sold out. But not before I got my over night shipping order placed! It arrives tomorrow good lord willing. It will be so fresh off the boat from China I will need to break out my SARS mask ;)

Fyi, I have a MSI 7970 (2PMD3GD5) in my 2010 Mac Pro, works fine out of the box. Stress tested it. Voltage tested it. Works fine.

HurtinMinorKey
Mar 20, 2013, 10:56 AM
The cost of this 7950 is based on demand, not development costs.

I'd like to add that this is also true of most cards. Development costs do not affect marginal cost(because they are fixed costs), and the actual difference in marginal costs between cards like this is negligible.

hamkor04
Mar 20, 2013, 12:03 PM
they are pretty "generous" with connector and also good handy PC-MAC Installation DVDs. OK, we can see Apple will deliver Mac PRO with DVD drive.
:D

rGiskard
Mar 20, 2013, 12:30 PM
I'd like to add that this is also true of most cards. Development costs do not affect marginal cost(because they are fixed costs), and the actual difference in marginal costs between cards like this is negligible.

Some cards bear the cost of driver development, such as the Nvidia Quadro series. Those require development of high end 3D drivers and with a limited sales volume the development costs are passed on to buyers.

Moogintroll
Mar 20, 2013, 12:34 PM
So, has anybody found anywhere selling this in the UK, Ireland or europe in general. Don't these people know that Bioshock Infinite is out next week?

Speaking of Bioshock, I'm assuming that we're going to be stiffed on that free Bioshock / Crysis 3 game offer?

Kissaragi
Mar 20, 2013, 12:54 PM
So, has anybody found anywhere selling this in the UK, Ireland or europe in general. Don't these people know that Bioshock Infinite is out next week?

Speaking of Bioshock, I'm assuming that we're going to be stiffed on that free Bioshock / Crysis 3 game offer?

Not seen anything about the uk yet

HurtinMinorKey
Mar 20, 2013, 02:21 PM
Some cards bear the cost of driver development, such as the Nvidia Quadro series. Those require development of high end 3D drivers and with a limited sales volume the development costs are passed on to buyers.

If these costs are in the form of running royalties then yes, otherwise no. The Quadro series is priced so high because Nvidia can segment demand (price discrimination), and charge higher prices to people who want a specific feature and who are willing to pay more.

In any event, basic economic theory tells us that fixed costs do not affect price.

MacsRgr8
Mar 20, 2013, 03:57 PM
there's contradictory information regarding compatibility from their website. in the product description, they say this is compatible with 2010 mac pros onward while in a more obscure spec page they say the 2009 mac pros are supported. surely if the later is true, the former is as well

And to make matters more complicated:

The Radeon HD 7950 is compatible with all existing Mac Pros from 2008 - 2012 (though Sapphire is officially specifying 2010 and after). It can run under Lion 10.7.5 and Mt. Lion 10.8.2 by installing special driver that comes on a disc. No special driver needed for 10.8.3.

From Barefeats (http://www.barefeats.com/gpu7950.html)

Moogintroll
Mar 20, 2013, 04:15 PM
overclockers.co.uk (http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=GX-316-SP) Have it for sale for £400 which even if you factor in VAT is asking too much. That's over $600 or €465.

mattlong1978
Mar 20, 2013, 05:09 PM
overclockers.co.uk (http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=GX-316-SP) Have it for sale for £400 which even if you factor in VAT is asking too much. That's over $600 or €465.

Agreed, especially when you can buy an HIS 7950 at the same stock speeds for £165 less and free games

Moogintroll
Mar 20, 2013, 05:26 PM
Agreed, especially when you can buy an HIS 7950 at the same stock speeds for £165 less and free games

Exactly, it feels too much like getting ripped off on a card which is debatably, already something of a rip-off. I won't say my hand didn't hover over the "buy" button though.

Dr Charter
Mar 20, 2013, 05:31 PM
What do u mean? If not Macpro, what Mac line would this fit in? If u have PC, Pc version is cheaper ny $100

----------

Thiseans new MP will retain physical form

----------

This means

He's probably referring to a thunderbolt enclosure for graphics cards. I don't know if such a thing even exists but I have heard the possibility mentioned in articles about TB.

RazorWriter
Mar 20, 2013, 05:59 PM
Barefeat's initial benchmark review (http://www.barefeats.com/gpu7950.html) of this card had this interesting tidbit:

And strap yourself in. We have some 'wild' non-flashed 'Windows only' GPUs that run just fine on the Mac Pro under OS X 10.8.3. We promise to include them in the next article.

Anyone know which cards he's referring to? If this is true, there could be some much cheaper cards that would run on a Mac and no flashing hassle!! Link to a resource that mentions which cards these could be?

JM-Prod
Mar 20, 2013, 06:44 PM
Anyone know which cards he's referring to? If this is true, there could be some much cheaper cards that would run on a Mac and no flashing hassle!! Link to a resource that mentions which cards these could be?

Probably GTX 400, 500 and 600 cards... you don't get a boot screen, and they are not recognised by the system profiler, but otherwise they work... However, unless you need CUDA, and if you find the K5000 way too expensive, go for the Sapphire! It's fully supported and it's a really nice card, and cheap too!

Kissaragi
Mar 21, 2013, 08:21 AM
For any uk people, overclockers now has it up on their website for pre order at £400

Plutonius
Mar 21, 2013, 10:59 AM
For those that are interested, Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/Sapphire-Radeon-PCI-Express-Graphics-11196-15-40G/dp/B00BW0XDU6/ref=sr_1_1?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1363881466&sr=1-1&keywords=7950+mac) increased the price to $479.99

Moogintroll
Mar 21, 2013, 11:29 AM
For any uk people, overclockers now has it up on their website for pre order at £400

Yea but I'm still looking for a reseller that isn't just assuming that all mac owners are gullible fools with more money than sense. You should read the comments on their forums...

Kissaragi
Mar 21, 2013, 11:36 AM
Yea but I'm still looking for a reseller that isn't just assuming that all mac owners are gullible fools with more money than sense. You should read the comments on their forums...

Its $480 in america, you should be glad its not £480 here with the way they charge us extra.

The comments are hardly surprising on a forum for performance pc parts. The ones wanting to use this card on their pcs because it looks pretty are funny tho.

Moogintroll
Mar 21, 2013, 11:45 AM
Its $480 in america, you should be glad its not £480 here with the way they charge us extra.


Sure but it's like being ripped off twice. I'm just about ok with sapphire charging more due to the niche market and R&D costs etc although even so it's still priced too high IMO. I'm not cool with the reseller overcharging too.


The ones wanting to use this card on their pcs because it looks pretty are funny tho.

And they probably criticise apple users as only being interested in how their computers look.

Kissaragi
Mar 21, 2013, 12:14 PM
And they probably criticise apple users as only being interested in how their computers look.

Yep, in the same thread lol.

Larry-K
Mar 21, 2013, 03:16 PM
And to make matters more complicated:

From Barefeats (http://www.barefeats.com/gpu7950.html)Wow, those benchmarks aren't exactly awe-inspiring, of course I don't use any of that software.

Maybe I'll just keep my crummy 5870 for now.

MacsRgr8
Mar 21, 2013, 03:50 PM
Wow, those benchmarks aren't exactly awe-inspiring, of course I don't use any of that software.

Maybe I'll just keep my crummy 5870 for now.

I have the 5870 now in my Mac Pro 3.1

I'm waiting for X-Plane 10 benchmarks. I do assume that X-Plane will benefit a lot, but I'm interested in the performance vs. the GTX 680 MX.

Clubber
Mar 21, 2013, 04:52 PM
I ordered this card and it came in today. Easy install, fit easily. I bought it for WOW.

2009 MacPro 8x 2.26 with 32gb memory
30" 2560x1600 Cinema Display

FPS changes based on what's in view:

Ultra Settings:
In Org: 30-40 FPS, average around 34
Flying around Nagrand: 40-60.

High Settings:
In Org: 40-70 FPS, average around 55

Squishy Tia
Mar 22, 2013, 03:28 AM
What I'm waiting for is to see if anybody with a 1,1 Mac Pro has this card working and has done so in 10.7.5. While I'd go to the trouble of reinstalling ML if I had to (if the card's throughput justified the expense that is), I'd rather not have to do that just yet.

DesterWallaboo
Mar 22, 2013, 11:38 AM
What I'm waiting for is to see if anybody with a 1,1 Mac Pro has this card working and has done so in 10.7.5. While I'd go to the trouble of reinstalling ML if I had to (if the card's throughput justified the expense that is), I'd rather not have to do that just yet.

Not going to work in 10.7.5 as it requires the drivers in 10.8.3

toke lahti
Mar 22, 2013, 05:24 PM
Not going to work in 10.7.5 as it requires the drivers in 10.8.3
Isn't there drivers available in Sapphire's site?

DesterWallaboo
Mar 22, 2013, 05:27 PM
Isn't there drivers available in Sapphire's site?

Apparently their site says it will work with 10.7.5 but requires an optical drive to install the 'software'.

I'm assuming that's the drivers.

Squishy Tia
Mar 23, 2013, 08:31 AM
Apparently their site says it will work with 10.7.5 but requires an optical drive to install the 'software'.

I'm assuming that's the drivers.

I'm not sure how that qualifies as "not working with 10.7.5" just because it needs the driver CD that comes with the card. Seeing as every Mac Pro comes with an optical drive, that should be a non-issue.

Digital Dude
Mar 23, 2013, 08:38 AM
All this talk about the switch for Mac to PC yet the reviewer from Newegg never pointed out where the switch is located. Still, I would be interested in this card if Apple 'really' comes out with a new Mac Pro in 2013.

rGiskard
Mar 23, 2013, 04:48 PM
In any event, basic economic theory tells us that fixed costs do not affect price.

Fixed costs don't affect price? Really? So the cost of materials and labor has nothing to do with the final price?

alphaod
Mar 23, 2013, 06:43 PM
Not going to work in 10.7.5 as it requires the drivers in 10.8.3
Also if you just need the drivers installed one of us can probably make you a dmg with it.

Hell I made I one earlier for another member:
http://alphaod.com/share/ATICD13-048.dmg

jnpy!$4g3cwk
Mar 23, 2013, 08:13 PM
I'm not sure if this is enough of an upgrade to be worth replacing a Radeon HD 5870. It has a fair bit more graphics RAM, but why didn't they release a 7970 Mac Edition that has easily double the performance over the 5870?

---

My first question was partly rhetorical because the 7970 requires 6 and 8-pin connectors whereas the Mac Pro only has two 6-pin power connectors available to the PCI slots. This is despite the Mac Pro's PSU being easily capable of supplying more, especially for single processor systems. People have done it successfully but their methods are far from elegant.

Sometimes Apple's design decisions baffle me. A cynic might even suggest deliberate crippling. Maybe they thought a 7970-class card would be too loud and hot and degrade the lifespan of other components in the system, but if you consider that the Mac Pro is one of the best, most spacious and well ventilated systems I know of then it makes that point a little less likely.

In Mac Pros the graphics card does sit under the hard drives so that could be their reasoning. I don't want my hard drives baking from a very hot card. Still, I would have definitely upgraded if they gave us a 7970 option.

---

PS, my guess is that this will be the new base card for the next Mac Pro, which is actually pretty reasonable. If they can make a 7950 the base and 7970 the upgrade, then that is a big step up from the current systems as the 7950 outperforms the previous upgrade option.

Probably due to power constraints? The MacPro can at maximum support a graphics card of 225 watts, 75 watts from the PCI-slot and 75 watts from each of the 6-pins. However, I run a GTX580 3GB just fine, although drawing more power from the 6-pins than they are designed for.



Indeed, though my overclocked 7950 matches and exceeds a stock 670 any day ;)

The 7970 and the 680 are pretty much neck in neck in my experience. Except the 7970 is cheaper and has better drivers (at least on the Peezoid, the Catalyst drivers are way better than what NVidia offers)

I'm really happy to see the 7950 arrive on the Mac, it's damn fine card :)

Glad to hear about the 7950. Very fast card. But, I'm still confused about the 7970. Some say they are using it, others say that you can't. I would think they would have gone with the 7970 if the PSU allowed it, since it is 30% faster or so.

simonmet
Mar 25, 2013, 05:17 PM
Glad to hear about the 7950. Very fast card. But, I'm still confused about the 7970. Some say they are using it, others say that you can't. I would think they would have gone with the 7970 if the PSU allowed it, since it is 30% faster or so.

There are various "hacks" that involve re-routing power, such as from an unused optical drive slot, but obviously these aren't officially supported. I wouldn't recommend overloading 6-pin cables with the equivalent of an 8-pin power draw.

Are you sure 7970/7950 is only 1.3? It should be a bit more than that? Tom's Hardware is great for FPS benchmarks.

jnpy!$4g3cwk
Mar 26, 2013, 02:08 AM
Are you sure 7970/7950 is only 1.3? It should be a bit more than that? Tom's Hardware is great for FPS benchmarks.


So many benchmarks, it is pretty hard to grok the entire gamut. Not to mention variations such as 7950 OC, 7970 GHz edition, and so on. Eyeballing a few benchmarks, I would say 1.2-1.3 is probably the statistical knee or something, but, it really all depends on what you are doing.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-hd-7950-overclock-crossfire-benchmark,3123-6.html

Of course, not to be outdone at the high end, Nvidia has answered with the new, extremely fast and expensive Titan:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/geforce-gtx-titan-performance-review,3442-3.html

(Impractically expensive though.)

Drinahn
Mar 26, 2013, 04:59 AM
You only need the emulators if you want the old windows start button, but everything else will default to mouse and keyboard if you don't have a touchscreen.

Yeah, but it's hardly sensible. "Upward right-jerk" seems to be the mouse action required in order to get the menu that allows me to go to Settings -> Power -> Shutdown. This seems a) excessively complicated for turning off my Win 8 VM, and b) not very obvious as far as human-computer interaction via a mouse goes.

----------

I ordered this card and it came in today. Easy install, fit easily. I bought it for WOW.

2009 MacPro 8x 2.26 with 32gb memory
30" 2560x1600 Cinema Display

FPS changes based on what's in view:

Ultra Settings:
In Org: 30-40 FPS, average around 34
Flying around Nagrand: 40-60.

High Settings:
In Org: 40-70 FPS, average around 55

Thanks for the confirmation it works Clubber. Shall get one for my 2009 Mac Pro too then!

Locutos1701
Mar 27, 2013, 11:22 AM
Order yesterday and arrived from Overclockers UK today, looks great, can't wait to get it installed in next couple of days.

ppdix
Mar 28, 2013, 11:37 AM
I got the card yesterday... The drivers are already included on Mac OS X 10.8.3.
Like I said before I am not a gamer or do much video.
I am a Pro Photographer and use Photoshop CS6 and Aperture 3.
My Mac Pro has the fastest SSD in the market, the 1TB OWC accelsior and 32GB of RAM hooked up to 2 27" Apple LED Cinema Displays, one rotated at 90-degrees.
I had some flickering and stuttering on the vertical display with my old Radeon 5770. It is faster on the 7950 but it still struggles.
I don't know if the problem is the "Old" 2010 5,1 Mac Pro with PCIe 2.0 vs the card's PCIe 3.0 but until Apple decides to upgrade the Mac Pro Line, $500 for a little faster video card doesn't work for me.
I ran some Xbench and Geebench tests and the numbers are almost identical. Even some video tests are actually faster on the 3 year old 5770 with just 1GB.
I hope NewEgg doesn't charge me the 15% restocking fee.. :(

bhuel
Mar 28, 2013, 01:14 PM
Works fine, but no boot screen in OS X, running 10.7.5. Installed drivers, etc. and works fine once you get to the login screen. Anyone else seeing this problem, or know a solution?

Squishy Tia
Mar 28, 2013, 08:09 PM
I don't know if the problem is the "Old" 2010 5,1 Mac Pro with PCIe 2.0 vs the card's PCIe 3.0 but until Apple decides to upgrade the Mac Pro Line, $500 for a little faster video card doesn't work for me.
I ran some Xbench and Geebench tests and the numbers are almost identical. Even some video tests are actually faster on the 3 year old 5770 with just 1GB.

Your tests mirror MysticalOS's tests in that some were worse on the new card than the old card. It seems that the new card's drivers, while "good", aren't all that optimized yet. Performance in games on anything but the higher clocked CPU Mac Pro 4,1 and 5,1 results in performance that's worse than the GTX 680, which is already worse on those machines (i.e. not 4,1/5,1) than the 5870 is.

So right now this card is a mixed bag, especially with the inability to boot into 32-bit mode despite the drivers having 32-bit code in them and EBC in the Mac-specific ROM on the card.

My Mac Pro has the fastest SSD in the market, the 1TB OWC accelsior

There's a "catch" to that "fastest SSD" bit - I'll lay them out for you (though it is decently fast for what it's intended to do)

1) It's not a single SSD. It's two SSDs, each with its own controller, in a RAID. Stick two Vertex 4s in a RAID on any SATA3/SAS2 HBA and it'll smoke that Accelsior. I know - I have just such a setup of 2 x 256 GB Vertex 4s on the NewerTech 6G-1i1e card (basically a rebadged RocketRAID 2721 with special Legacy passthrough mode).

Even on my Mac Pro 1,1 I can reach 1 GB/sec on incompressible data. Good luck with that on the Accelsior since it's using SandForce controllers, which are absolutely craptacular with incompressible data (they drop to about half their rated speeds in that scenario).

As a plus though, the Accelsior is bootable, and even on a 1,1 Mac Pro's PCIe 1.0 slot it'd smoke the internal SATA bays any day.

2) It's a PCIe 2.0 card, but has a flat ceiling of 500 MB /sec max throughput when encountering incompressible data. That means that even if OWC gets better SSD blades that when combined can reach >1 GB/sec, that card will never get those speeds. PCIe 2.0 link width maximums are 500MB/sec, and that card's connector is an x1 link width. All of its speed comes from compressible data. That works for a boot drive, but not so much for games, whose data is almost always incompressible (as in it is already in a compressed format).

Barefeats had the Accelsior sitting at the top of its charts in most tests, but that was with compressible data in a synthetic environment. It loses nearly all its advantages when dealing with incompressible data in the real world, and would handily lose to an HBA whose link width is at least x4 and two good SSDs like the Vertex 4 (remember, the Accelsior is a RAIDed pair, so comparing it to a single SSD is apples to oranges and only serves to skew the data in favor of the Accelsior, which becomes obvious when comparing to a like setup of real world SSDs).

It's bootable though, which is nice.

I'll be impressed once OWC moves away from SandForce controllers and has something with better than x1 link width for bandwidth.

Krevnik
Mar 28, 2013, 08:59 PM
Fixed costs don't affect price? Really? So the cost of materials and labor has nothing to do with the final price?

Cost of materials and labor (for assembly/shipping anyhow) are not fixed costs. Those are per-unit costs.

Fixed costs are things like the cost to design the board prior to putting it into manufacturing. The cost of your building's lease. Stuff that doesn't change as you produce and sell more units (i.e. doesn't scale with # of sales).

And the comment is correct. Mathing out the fixed costs into your product's price is complicated, and doesn't really get you anywhere. Instead, you pay the fixed costs out of the margins on the product. You treat the fixed costs as fixed, and figure out how to sell some number of units of your various products to cover them (setting what amounts to a break-even point). And this is probably only a rough description, and may be using terms wrong.

alfistas
Mar 31, 2013, 04:22 PM
Why didn't they add a backplate to this card? It's a little trivial, I know but then again they put so much time and effort into the "looks" of the heatsink cover... :rolleyes:

Kissaragi
Apr 1, 2013, 10:12 AM
Works fine, but no boot screen in OS X, running 10.7.5. Installed drivers, etc. and works fine once you get to the login screen. Anyone else seeing this problem, or know a solution?

Would imagine the switch isnt in the correct position

star-affinity
Apr 2, 2013, 09:30 AM
You don't need to use the Tiles UI if you don't want and you can use alternative text rendering engines, such as MacType (https://code.google.com/p/mactype/) to get the same experience as on a Mac. :cool:

You mean I don't have to use the Tiles if I install a third party Start menu? How can I otherwise avoid it?

Thanks, I didn't know about that font renderer. Will try it and se how it works.

HurtinMinorKey
Apr 2, 2013, 09:01 PM
Yeah, but it's hardly sensible. "Upward right-jerk" seems to be the mouse action required in order to get the menu that allows me to go to Settings -> Power -> Shutdown. This seems a) excessively complicated for turning off my Win 8 VM, and b) not very obvious as far as human-computer interaction via a mouse goes.[COLOR="#808080"]


I guess i won't be able to get you to use keyboard shortcuts...

RoastingPig
Apr 3, 2013, 12:43 AM
ill just wait for the new mac pro i really really want to buy a mac pro but i got to keep my composure

adder7712
Apr 3, 2013, 03:06 AM
Why didn't they add a backplate to this card? It's a little trivial, I know but then again they put so much time and effort into the "looks" of the heatsink cover... :rolleyes:

The most common 7950s sold by OEMs do not have backplates.

Hell, even the 7970 doesn't have a backplate.

alfistas
Apr 3, 2013, 08:43 AM
The most common 7950s sold by OEMs do not have backplates.

Hell, even the 7970 doesn't have a backplate.

I know... but I think it would look awesome if it did! Backplates offer extra protection to the pcb against static discharge and distortion. If this were a PREMIUM product then they should have added a backplate or at the very least offer it as an option. ;)

Squishy Tia
Apr 4, 2013, 09:35 AM
I know... but I think it would look awesome if it did! Backplates offer extra protection to the pcb against static discharge and distortion. If this were a PREMIUM product then they should have added a backplate or at the very least offer it as an option. ;)

Not much room to spare for a backplate when used in a Mac Pro. Besides, without the backplate a little extra air from the PCIe bay fan will get back there to cool the card a bit better. It won't be much, but anything helps.

MacsRgr8
Apr 5, 2013, 04:36 PM
Works fine, but no boot screen in OS X, running 10.7.5. Installed drivers, etc. and works fine once you get to the login screen. Anyone else seeing this problem, or know a solution?

Would imagine the switch isnt in the correct position

Kissaragi is correct.
I had the same issue. The manual says the dipswitch is default set "to the right" which enables OS X EFI mode, but in my case it was "on the left" which enables PC UEFI mode, therefore acting like a "normal" PC card.

You can adjust the dipswitch by simply removing the side cover off the Mac Pro.

captmatt
Apr 14, 2013, 03:02 PM
If the (future) Mac Pro is going to support the Thunderbolt display, will it require a video card that has Thunderbolt on-board? I ask because this is the latest for the Mac Pro but doesn't have TB. Does it give hints at the near future?

Does it look like the Mac Pro won't support Thunderbolt video out, instead utilizing it for storage, etc..?

Concorde Rules
Apr 14, 2013, 03:43 PM
If the (future) Mac Pro is going to support the Thunderbolt display, will it require a video card that has Thunderbolt on-board? I ask because this is the latest for the Mac Pro but doesn't have TB. Does it give hints at the near future?

Does it look like the Mac Pro won't support Thunderbolt video out, instead utilizing it for storage, etc..?

I doubt very much that the next Mac Pro will have Thunderbolt on the GPU.

There simply isn't the bandwidth to support a high-end GPU and thunderbolt.

I'm extremely interested in how Apple are going to add thunderbolt to the Mac Pro.

Squishy Tia
Apr 14, 2013, 05:01 PM
I doubt very much that the next Mac Pro will have Thunderbolt on the GPU.

There simply isn't the bandwidth to support a high-end GPU and thunderbolt.

I'm extremely interested in how Apple are going to add thunderbolt to the Mac Pro.

Apple would have to use an Intel board with dual PCIe controllers. There's no other way to get enough PCIe lanes to support Thunderbolt, which takes eight lanes on its own. There are boards from a couple manufacturers out there that have dual PCIe controllers onboard, but none of the boards have Thunderbolt AFAIK.

boinkboink
Apr 14, 2013, 11:51 PM
there's contradictory information regarding compatibility from their website. in the product description, they say this is compatible with 2010 mac pros onward while in a more obscure spec page they say the 2009 mac pros are supported. surely if the later is true, the former is as well

I installed the card in my MP 2009 and it works flawlessly. As usual, 1 minute is all it took. Kick ass card. I am in the experimenting stage with overclocking right now. I am running the card (in Windows) at 900Mhz base frequency with 1300 Mhz memory frequency. The card is running at 72 DegC with 46% fan speed. My aim is to increase the base frequency to 1Ghz and see what happens. :D

Concorde Rules
Apr 15, 2013, 04:31 AM
Apple would have to use an Intel board with dual PCIe controllers. There's no other way to get enough PCIe lanes to support Thunderbolt, which takes eight lanes on its own. There are boards from a couple manufacturers out there that have dual PCIe controllers onboard, but none of the boards have Thunderbolt AFAIK.

Not sure what your on about there?

The CPUs have a fixed number of PCI-E lanes (40ish IIRC).

Two x16s and two x4s kind of use all that up, sharing bandwidth is easy and far from an ideal solution.

Nor does it solve how to integrate display port into it. Either thunderbolt is on the GPU and shares the GPUs PCI-E lanes, or display port signals are send back via the PCI-e lanes to the thunderbolt controller or an external cable merges a non-DP enabled TB port with the GPUs DP port.

Or a discrete GPU is included on the motherboard itself, but then you need to pipe the output from the high performance GPU.

Very interested anyhow on how apple will manage it.

cannfoddr
Apr 16, 2013, 06:53 AM
I too delivery of my 7950 at the weekend to install in my Mac Pro 3,1 3.0Ghz Xenon machine.

I was replacing a flashed PC 4890 (??) Radeon that has been working fine but I felt the need for something a bit more modern. I had tried some other newer PC cards without success and finally gave in and ordered the Sapphire

My Install experiences:

1. Initially I could not get the machine to power up with the card installed - I just got a click from the power supply. I reseated the card without any success. Through some trial and error I eventually realised that I could not use the new graphics card and my CalDigit FASTA-6GU3 USB 3.0/eSATA card. Removing the card enabled the machine to power up - I dont really understand why this is the case as I am sure the Mac Pro power supply should be up to the job, setup worked fine with the old graphics card.

2. The bios switch was set to PC OOB so no boot screen - opened the case panel and flicked the switch and voila a boot screen

3. System initially came up with a non native resolution on my 2 23' cinema displays had to manually set the resolution back down to native - also gave me a readbale display (fonts were a bit too small for my taste)

4. No need to install mac drivers on 10.8.3 they are included but the install just told me that I didnt need them

5. Has made a huge difference to Starcraft 2 and WOW frame rates

6. Bootcamp install went fine booted up and installed the catalyst drivers for windows

All in All very happy if a little confused about the power issues - can live without USB 3.0 ports for the time being whilst I investigate.

Adrian

jasonsansone
Jun 3, 2013, 05:53 PM
I installed the card in my MP 2009 and it works flawlessly. As usual, 1 minute is all it took. Kick ass card. I am in the experimenting stage with overclocking right now. I am running the card (in Windows) at 900Mhz base frequency with 1300 Mhz memory frequency. The card is running at 72 DegC with 46% fan speed. My aim is to increase the base frequency to 1Ghz and see what happens. :D

How did your overclocking tests go? Have you attempted to overclock the card in OS X?

tevion5
Jun 29, 2013, 10:58 AM
I can't be the only person who thinks these giant, power hungry, heat producing beasts are going the way of the dinosaur.

We need a graphics processing revolution similar to the ARM revolution.

You must be happy with the new 2013 Mac Pro so! :D

e-coli
Jul 3, 2013, 08:05 AM
You must be happy with the new 2013 Mac Pro so! :D

It'll happen. Trust me. Devices are getting smaller, and heat and power consumption will have to go down.

But the new MacPro is a nice machine. :)

tevion5
Jul 3, 2013, 12:06 PM
It'll happen. Trust me. Devices are getting smaller, and heat and power consumption will have to go down.

But the new MacPro is a nice machine. :)

I'm on board with you. I think the new Mac Pro will be very affordable, and a milestone on desktop design for the whole industry. They will all go that way in time. Just like SATA replaced IDE, so will PCIe become the new standard.

Things change, yay!

Newsbusters
Jul 19, 2013, 02:28 PM
I would like to use the HDMI output of my new HD 7950 Mac Edition. Because there is no driver installation needed and therefor no catalyst software, where and how can I activate HDMI? Simply plug in an HDMI cable in the card and connect it to an HD TV lead to nothing (no signal). Any ideas?

Additionally: Is it possible to connect two Monitors with the "regular" ports and attach a 3rd (TV) screen via HDMI?

Thanks a lot for your help.

Finch127
Jan 2, 2014, 07:04 AM
If you put a non-apple based 7950 in a Mac Pro 1,1 would it just be the efi boot screen that would be missing ?