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philz4life
Mar 24, 2013, 12:03 PM
I have a dual 1.25 GHZ Powermac G4 MDD, and for a 10 year old computer, it is blazing fast. However, as many of you may already know, the MDD was notoriously loud, and the culprit is the power supply fans. After hours of googling the problem, I found several sights that helped me to successfully replace the PSU fans in my Powermac. I would encourage anyone with an MDD who is bothered by the noise to do this, the results are well worth the effort.
The fans I used were the Everflow F126025DH DC, which can be found on the Thermaltake Volcano 5 heatsink. Just search for the fans or heatsink on ebay, you should be able to find them.

After removing the optical drives, I laid the Powermac on a couch so that I could access the power supply without having to rewire everything.

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Then I unscrewed the power supply and carefully rested it on the hard drive cage.

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After taking the cover off the PSU, the fans are revealed. Take note of how the red and black wires are positioned.

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Then unscrew and unplug the fans. The tricky part is that you have to swap the connectors from the old fans onto the new ones because the Everflow fans come with 3 pin connectors and the original ones have 2 pin connectors. The yellow wires in the new Everflow fans are for speed control, and because the power supply fans in the MDD spin at a constant rate, this is not needed, so you can cut them off.

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It takes a bit of work to get the connectors off the old fans and onto the new ones, but you just have to be patient.

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Plug the fans back in. Now just reassemble everything, and you have a quieter mirrored drive door Powermac!



Dimbles
Mar 24, 2013, 04:27 PM
Thanks for sharing, however the pictures aren't linked correctly.

philz4life
Mar 24, 2013, 06:43 PM
Thanks for sharing, however the pictures aren't linked correctly.

Oh, thanks I just noticed that. Ill try to fix it

havokalien
Mar 28, 2013, 03:15 AM
Ok so what was the cfm change in the fans? How quiet are they? Are they getting full speed since no speed is sensed? I am curious, before I do a mod like this I want to make sure it's getting enough flow. If its just quieter but warmer I would second guess it.

Thank you for the work on the posting, it's informative, it just gave me those questions.

philz4life
Mar 28, 2013, 07:59 PM
Ok so what was the cfm change in the fans? How quiet are they? Are they getting full speed since no speed is sensed? I am curious, before I do a mod like this I want to make sure it's getting enough flow. If its just quieter but warmer I would second guess it.

Thank you for the work on the posting, it's informative, it just gave me those questions.

It isn't silent, but it is noticeably less noisy. The main source of noise now is the case fan. I'm planning on replacing it as well, which should make it whisper quiet. The original PSU fans pushed 38 cfm and constantly produced a very loud 47 db or noise. The Everflow replacement fans have an airflow of 32 cfm and are a much quieter 31 db. The air I feel coming out the back of the power supply is about the same temperature as before, and there isn't a noticeable decrease in how much is coming out. 32 cfm is plenty.
Here are some of the sites I used to get the information on the fans:

http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/systems/g4_mirrored_drive_doors/noise_reduction/g4_ddr_noise_reduction.html

http://coolstuff.wordpress.com/2007/02/19/powermac-g4-mdd-cooling-and-noise-reduction/

Make sure that you transfer the rubber pads to reduce vibration noise. I forgot to mention that in the original post.

madhatmac
Jun 25, 2013, 10:00 PM
The tricky part is that you have to swap the connectors from the old fans onto the new ones because the Everflow fans come with 3 pin connectors and the original ones have 2 pin connectors. The yellow wires in the new Everflow fans are for speed control, and because the power supply fans in the MDD spin at a constant rate, this is not needed, so you can cut them off.

Thanks for posting this! I want to do the same to my MDD, also. I've just ordered from eBay 2 x Thermaltake VOLCANO 5 heatsink/fans and a SilenX Ixtrema Pro fan.

I am a complete noob to computer tinkering, however, so just had a question regards the yellow wire on the Everflow fans... When you say you just "cut them off", do you literally mean you just snipped them off and let the remaining bit hang there?

I don't know much about electronics but is this safe to do? Do you need to cover the ends up somehow? Maybe electrical tape or something?

Alternatively, is there a way to completely remove the yellow wire rather than snipping it off?

Sorry if this is a silly question, I've never done this before.

Cheers

Swampus
Jun 25, 2013, 10:45 PM
...I want to do the same to my MDD, also. I've just ordered from eBay 2 x Thermaltake VOLCANO 5 heatsink/fans....

Did you order heatsinks too? All that you need are the fans.

If you cut the yellow wire at the base of the fan, it shouldn't even be possible for it to make contact with anything else. However, if you'd rather leave enough to put some tape or a small wire nut on, that's fine too.

The most important things to remember:

1) Observe correct polarity. Red to red. Black to black.

2) Install the fans so that air flow is into and through the PSU. Fans often have an arrow on the case to indicate airflow.

In a design such as this, where air is blown into a unit, a fan with high static pressure will, to some degree, compensate for a lower CFM rating.

You said that you're new at this, so I'll also ask if you know about CHUD? There is nothing more important when it comes to maintaining a cool running MDD.

Swampus
Jun 26, 2013, 12:43 AM
In a design such as this, where air is blown into a unit, a fan with high static pressure will, to some degree, compensate for a lower CFM rating.

Ignore that. Irrelevant. The Volcano 5 fans are more powerful than I thought. Heatsink fans often focus more on static pressure, but an air flow rating of 32 CFM is plenty on its own. Interesting fan choice.

Cox Orange
Jun 26, 2013, 02:20 PM
Here are the fan details for a Single-CPU MDD. http://aquamac.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=talk&thread=1174&page=1#8403
666Sheep informed me, lately in another thread, that the Single-CPU MDDs have other fans than the Dual ones!

Swampus said: In a design such as this, where air is blown into a unit, a fan with high static pressure will, to some degree, compensate for a lower CFM rating.
I once did a research (not really to an end) and focused on static pressure as well. The problem I have with the numbers (for static pressure as well as cfm and dB(A)) is that every manufacturer uses another test, another test equipment etc. and so they are not really comparable. Some manufacturers even recalculate values for newer versions taking just the old data of the previous versions/models.
But what else, should one make a decision by? In the end one would have to sit down and make various tests on his/her own, using a temperature sensor and cfm rating control. But who has the time, let alone the nerves, for that.

madhatmac
Jun 26, 2013, 09:43 PM
Did you order heatsinks too? All that you need are the fans.

Yep, the fans come in a bundle with the heatsinks - so I'll just throw the heatsinks away :) I could have bought the fans separately from someone else but they were used. I chose to go with the brand new heatsink/fan bundle - plus it was cheaper anyway.

If you cut the yellow wire at the base of the fan, it shouldn't even be possible for it to make contact with anything else. However, if you'd rather leave enough to put some tape or a small wire nut on, that's fine too.

OK, thanks. So, by the sounds of it, it's not a big issue if it doesn't make contact with anything else. I've never heard of a wire nut before. I googled it - sounds like normally they're for connecting two wires together?

You said that you're new at this, so I'll also ask if you know about CHUD? There is nothing more important when it comes to maintaining a cool running MDD.

Yes, in my reading online I did come across CHUD and I downloaded it from some guy called japamac's website. I haven't installed it yet, however, as I started to read about more complicated stuff like the need to add a script in terminal so that Nap isn't turned off every time you reboot. I'll put my fans in first and see what effect that has and then experiment with CHUD.

Thanks for your helpful advice :)

Cheers

Swampus
Jun 26, 2013, 10:29 PM
Yes, in my reading online I did come across CHUD and I downloaded it from some guy called japamac's website. I haven't installed it yet, however, as I started to read about more complicated stuff like the need to add a script in terminal so that Nap isn't turned off every time you reboot. I'll put my fans in first and see what effect that has and then experiment with CHUD.

Thanks for your helpful advice :)

Cheers

Japamac is one of the most respected names in PowerPC computing. I purchased a video card from him a while back. Whatever advice you're getting there should be gold. The script isn't that complicated. You should be able to find step by step instructions by searching here. If not, I'll post the code for you. Its purpose is to enable nap mode every time you start the computer. You can also do it manually each time. Once you see the value of CHUD though, I suspect that you'll want to automate it and be done with it.

Japamac also has a nice tutorial on redoing the CPU's thermal compound (http://www.jcsenterprises.com/Japamacs_Page/Blog/9AE7FE0E-0CF2-4A7C-8003-489B282582BC.html). Since you're going to all of this trouble anyway, you might as well go all of the way. ;)

philz4life
Jun 26, 2013, 11:11 PM
Thanks for posting this! I want to do the same to my MDD, also. I've just ordered from eBay 2 x Thermaltake VOLCANO 5 heatsink/fans and a SilenX Ixtrema Pro fan.

I am a complete noob to computer tinkering, however, so just had a question regards the yellow wire on the Everflow fans... When you say you just "cut them off", do you literally mean you just snipped them off and let the remaining bit hang there?

I don't know much about electronics but is this safe to do? Do you need to cover the ends up somehow? Maybe electrical tape or something?

Alternatively, is there a way to completely remove the yellow wire rather than snipping it off?

Sorry if this is a silly question, I've never done this before.

Cheers

Yes, you can just cut the wires. When you get them out of the original 3 pin connector, only the red and black ones will go in the smaller 2 pin connector, so the yellow will be free and you can throw it out.

philz4life
Jun 26, 2013, 11:28 PM
Japamac is one of the most respected names in PowerPC computing. I purchased a video card from him a while back. Whatever advice you're getting there should be gold. The script isn't that complicated. You should be able to find step by step instructions by searching here. If not, I'll post the code for you. Its purpose is to enable nap mode every time you start the computer. You can also do it manually each time. Once you see the value of CHUD though, I suspect that you'll want to automate it and be done with it.

Japamac also has a nice tutorial on redoing the CPU's thermal compound (http://www.jcsenterprises.com/Japamacs_Page/Blog/9AE7FE0E-0CF2-4A7C-8003-489B282582BC.html). Since you're going to all of this trouble anyway, you might as well go all of the way. ;)

I downloaded CHUD, but it did almost nothing. The main fan actually got a bit louder when I turned it on. Is there a specific version I need? I'll be replacing this fan too, but also having CHUD work would help out a lot.

Swampus
Jun 26, 2013, 11:52 PM
I downloaded CHUD, but it did almost nothing. The main fan actually got a bit louder when I turned it on. Is there a specific version I need? I'll be replacing this fan too, but also having CHUD work would help out a lot.

For dual CPU MDDs, version 3.5.2.

As madhatmac mentioned, Japamac has it available for download (http://www.jcsenterprises.com/Japamacs_Page/Odds_and_Ends_files/CHUD_3.5.2.dmg).

Apple used to have them all available for download. Not sure if they still do. Can't find them at the moment.

666sheep
Jun 27, 2013, 12:05 AM
You need to enable Nap to take advantage of CHUD. Nap is basically something like DFS.
Here is an app (http://www.s155158671.websitehome.co.uk/downloadsaqua-ma.html) which will do it automatically at startup, when placed in login items.

Swampus
Jun 27, 2013, 01:44 AM
You need to enable Nap to take advantage of CHUD. Nap is basically something like DFS.
Here is an app (http://www.s155158671.websitehome.co.uk/downloadsaqua-ma.html) which will do it automatically at startup, when placed in login items.

I think that one is just for Tiger, no?

If you're running Leopard and that linked application doesn't work for you, make your own:

1) Open Script Editor (Applications > Applescript > Script Editor).

2) Paste into window the following code:

tell application "System Preferences"
activate
set current pane to pane "Hardware"
tell application "System Events"
if not UI elements enabled then
display dialog "GUI Scripting is not enabled. Enable?"
set UI elements enabled to true
end if
tell application process "System Preferences"
set napModeBox to checkbox 1 of group 1 of window "Hardware"
if value of napModeBox is 0 then
click napModeBox
end if
end tell
end tell
close the first window
end tell

3) Choose "Save As" and select "Application" under the file format menu.

4) If desired, add it to your login items. (System Preferences > Accounts > Login Items > + > navigate to the location where you saved the application).

Edit for clarity: This script should work with CHUD version 3.5.2 on a dual CPU MDD running Leopard. 3.5.2 is the only version that should be used on a dual CPU MDD. Also, be aware that the preference pane will misreport Level 2 and Level 3 cache sizes. This might give you the impression that it's not working correctly, but ignore it. Enabling nap mode is the only thing that you want to do.

Swampus
Jun 30, 2013, 04:34 AM
For those who are installing CHUD for the first time, take a minute to post your before and after average CPU temps so that others can see the actual value of doing this.

I just disable nap mode for the first time in several years and watched my temps shoot up 10 degrees Celsius in less than three minutes. I'm currently running with two displays, one with TenFourFox and a few tabs of Mac Rumors, and the other with my local PBS station (via Elgato Eye TV 500 streaming through the firewire port). My CPU is at about 30 to 35%. I was running at 43.2C (ambient room temperature of 70F) with nap mode. Within three minutes of disabling nap, I was over 54C.

I know this thread is about quieting MDDs, but temperature is a part of that. If you keep your fans from kicking on full blast, they will naturally be quieter. Your beloved machine will also last much longer. ;)

archtopshop
Jun 30, 2013, 11:46 AM
MDD FW800 1.25GHz Dual temps, at idle with/without CHUD, no other applications running other than whatever the system is using. Ambient room temperature was 73 Farenheit.

After turning off CHUD, it took about 15 minutes for the temperature to rise to 137F. At that point, the fan kicks higher and reduces the temperature to 135.6 F before throttling back down. The fan never reaches the "wind tunnel" stage.

http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=420716&d=1372610444

http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=420717&d=1372610444

madhatmac
Jun 30, 2013, 08:16 PM
After turning off CHUD, it took about 15 minutes for the temperature to rise to 137F. At that point, the fan kicks higher and reduces the temperature to 135.6 F before throttling back down. The fan never reaches the "wind tunnel" stage.

Hi archtopshop,

What application do you use to measure your temps? I downloaded iStat v.1.3 (I think it's the lastest version compatible with Tiger) but the temperature gauge for the processors isn't working. The temperature keeps climbing and climbing - it got to a figure of something like 9,000 C. (Hard drive temps displayed OK.)

Also, iStat does not show any RPM figures for the fans. Is there an app for that also?

I'm running Tiger 10.4.11

Cheers

MisterKeeks
Jun 30, 2013, 09:06 PM
Hi archtopshop,

What application do you use to measure your temps? I downloaded iStat v.1.3 (I think it's the lastest version compatible with Tiger) but the temperature gauge for the processors isn't working. The temperature keeps climbing and climbing - it got to a figure of something like 9,000 C.

If you are using a G5, 9,000 C sounds about right to me.

Just kidding.

He is using Temperature Monitor. (http://www.bresink.com/osx/TemperatureMonitor.html)

archtopshop
Jun 30, 2013, 09:59 PM
Hi archtopshop,

What application do you use to measure your temps? I downloaded iStat v.1.3 (I think it's the lastest version compatible with Tiger) but the temperature gauge for the processors isn't working. The temperature keeps climbing and climbing - it got to a figure of something like 9,000 C. (Hard drive temps displayed OK.)

Also, iStat does not show any RPM figures for the fans. Is there an app for that also?

I'm running Tiger 10.4.11

Cheers

Yep, I'm running Temperature Monitor Version 4.96. The same version runs on Tiger.

The two fans in the power supply run at full speed all the time--6800 rpm. They create most of the noise one hears when the MDD is running at normal temps.

I don't know, off hand, how fast the big fan runs. Its speed increases as temps rise. At full speed, it is very loud. Like, vacuum cleaner loud.

I've only ever hear it run at full speed if I turn the computer off when it is hot, and then restart it immediately. The big fan will run at full speed while the unit is booting, then settle down to a normal speed.

I don't know of an application for fan speed.

Swampus
Jul 1, 2013, 04:07 AM
MDD FW800 1.25GHz Dual temps, at idle with/without CHUD, no other applications running other than whatever the system is using. Ambient room temperature was 73 Farenheit.

After turning off CHUD, it took about 15 minutes for the temperature to rise to 137F...

I should mention that my temps were still climbing when I turned nap mode back on. Once it reached 54C, I had seen enough. I should also mention that this particular machine has a FireGL card that seems to add at least 4 degrees compared to another machine with a Radeon 9800.

I think the "GL" stands for good luck, as in "good luck with the fire that this card will probably cause". :D

My Radeon 9800 machine is my living room entertainment system. It plays videos all day long. It's clocked at 1.5 GHz and never gets above 40C running with nap mode enabled (ambient temperature 70F).

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd262/swampus_album/temp.png

philz4life
Jul 6, 2013, 08:59 PM
I should mention that my temps were still climbing when I turned nap mode back on. Once it reached 54C, I had seen enough. I should also mention that this particular machine has a FireGL card that seems to add at least 4 degrees compared to another machine with a Radeon 9800.

I think the "GL" stands for good luck, as in "good luck with the fire that this card will probably cause". :D

My Radeon 9800 machine is my living room entertainment system. It plays videos all day long. It's clocked at 1.5 GHz and never gets above 40C running with nap mode enabled (ambient temperature 70F).

Image (http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd262/swampus_album/temp.png)

Well I'm about to buy a Radeon FireGL for my MDD, so that certainly won't help it. But it still hast the stock graphics card in it, which is ancient and really holds it back.

Swampus
Jul 6, 2013, 09:09 PM
Well I'm about to buy a Radeon FireGL for my MDD, so that certainly won't help it. But it still hast the stock graphics card in it, which is ancient and really holds it back.

It's a nice card and I like the two DVI ports. It'll definitely put out more heat than the stock card, but CHUD nap mode should more than offset the difference. Did you get that working?

philz4life
Jul 6, 2013, 09:55 PM
It's a nice card and I like the two DVI ports. It'll definitely put out more heat than the stock card, but CHUD nap mode should more than offset the difference. Did you get that working?

My MDD is currently not functional and is awaiting a new SSD to arrive, because recently the SATA port on my old one broke when I was closing the door. As soon as its up and running again, I'll be starting nap mode.

Cox Orange
Jul 15, 2013, 09:26 AM
I have an additional question regarding fans and PSUs.

My example is not about the MDD, but the Sawtooth aka "AGP" (208W rev1, 237W rev2), GigabitEthernet / DigitalAudio and Quicksilver types of G4s (338W), but the issue might be there as well.

My question is, can there be (replacement) fans that draw to mutch power?

The person here http://infohost.nmt.edu/~holstien/g4fanswap.html says that one has to look at the voltage. He has a Quicksilver, were there is a daughtercard that regulates the fan speed of the PSU-fan (same in the Sawtooth PSU).
Others say that the 12V says, that there is enough Watts for every fan imaginable.
specs on a AGP-G4 PSU http://www.applemacparts.co.uk/store/popup_extra_images.php?peiID=150 and http://www.applemacparts.co.uk/store/popup_extra_images.php?peiID=353

I do not know enough about PSUs and am not really sure about understanding the specs one can see on a PSU, without me being left with a remaining bit of doubt.

So, what do you think, does one have to mind the max Wattage of fans concerning PSUs? Or does it only apply to this curious/strange PSU-fan-daughtercard? Of course, the answer is better save than sorry, if one does not understand things into deep, but calculating the max. Watts supplied by the given V x mA, one should be save - so, if not save, than there must be more to it, than just reading the Voltage and Amperes on the lines.

Andropov
Jul 15, 2013, 02:37 PM
The PSU should have far enough power in the 12V line to run any fan.

Lil Chillbil
Jul 15, 2013, 03:15 PM
If some people can run a gtx 660 ti with a 400 watt Japanese psu. I am sure that the original apple psu can handle any fans you throw at it

madhatmac
Jul 29, 2013, 12:28 AM
Edit for clarity: This script should work with CHUD version 3.5.2 on a dual CPU MDD running Leopard. 3.5.2 is the only version that should be used on a dual CPU MDD. Also, be aware that the preference pane will misreport Level 2 and Level 3 cache sizes. This might give you the impression that it's not working correctly, but ignore it. Enabling nap mode is the only thing that you want to do.

Thanks for all the info.

One question: Will Nap mode turn itself off if my G4 goes to sleep?

Swampus
Jul 29, 2013, 01:07 AM
Thanks for all the info.

One question: Will Nap mode turn itself off if my G4 goes to sleep?

If it's in nap mode when it goes to sleep, then it will be in nap mode when it wakes. A restart will require that nap mode be enabled again (either manually or with script).

MacBH928
Jul 29, 2013, 04:44 AM
What does MDD stand for?

I had a 02 iMac , it was pretty good and decent after 7 years of use. Had to change it due to probably dying hard-drive and it was basically too old to run recent software , even simple software will not run on it because the OS on it (Tiger) is old.

May I ask what do you use this G4 for? If you are saving money, you can get a much more powerful mac for a very cheap price like a 2009 model.

Nameci
Jul 29, 2013, 05:31 AM
What does MDD stand for?

I had a 02 iMac , it was pretty good and decent after 7 years of use. Had to change it due to probably dying hard-drive and it was basically too old to run recent software , even simple software will not run on it because the OS on it (Tiger) is old.

May I ask what do you use this G4 for? If you are saving money, you can get a much more powerful mac for a very cheap price like a 2009 model.

Mirror Drive Door. You can see it on the front of the computer, the optical drive door have a mirror finished surface.

There are many uses for an "old" computer. It is not slow, it has the same speed the day you bought it. System requirements for "new" software have gone up to the roof because of added features and eye candy.

The power of computers will continue to increase versus size of the chip. That is already a given, because hardware should adapt to the "new" (again) software requirements. Run "old" software on "old" macs and they are quite quick and snappy. Most of the "newer" softwares nowadays would not even run on powerpc.

If you are content with "old" softwares then this "old" macs are fine for your usage, otherwise buy a new one.

pastrychef
Jul 29, 2013, 08:00 AM
Wow. This thread brought back lots of memories from when I still had my G4s. At one point, I had two MDDs and replaced every fan in one of them in an attempt to rein in the noise.

One thing that I have not seen mentioned in this thread is the heatsink for the G4s. There were two variants of heatsinks used in MDDs. One was an aluminum heatsink and the other was copper. Both of my MDDs came with the aluminum and I replaced my fan modded one with an aluminum one which seemed to help slightly. I also went from 1.25GHz to 1.42GHz on that machine.

Another thing that MDD users should be aware of is that when loaded up with all drive bays occupied, the fans pull in lots of air as well as DUST! It's important to regularly dust out these beasts with compressed air.

Good luck with your machines. Thanks for the thread, it brought back some fond memories.

666sheep
Jul 29, 2013, 08:23 AM
There were two variants of heatsinks used in MDDs. One was an aluminum heatsink and the other was copper.

There were even 3: thin aluminum, thick aluminum and copper one. :)

pastrychef
Jul 29, 2013, 08:45 AM
There were even 3: thin aluminum, thick aluminum and copper one. :)

Oh. I didn't know this... Were the thick aluminum ones used on single CPU models?

666sheep
Jul 29, 2013, 10:19 AM
Mostly in 1.25 Singles and I've seen few in 867 Duals, but I'm not sure if they were factory fitted. All these 867s came from one company.

MacBH928
Jul 29, 2013, 01:42 PM
Mirror Drive Door. You can see it on the front of the computer, the optical drive door have a mirror finished surface.

There are many uses for an "old" computer. It is not slow, it has the same speed the day you bought it. System requirements for "new" software have gone up to the roof because of added features and eye candy.

The power of computers will continue to increase versus size of the chip. That is already a given, because hardware should adapt to the "new" (again) software requirements. Run "old" software on "old" macs and they are quite quick and snappy. Most of the "newer" softwares nowadays would not even run on powerpc.

If you are content with "old" softwares then this "old" macs are fine for your usage, otherwise buy a new one.

I have following Apple for more than 10 years, I always thought the mirror was a design . I dont know how I never thought where the CD drive went.
What are the four holes at the bottom? Are they for sound?

For old computers, I know you can change the HDD but what about stuff like the motherboard dying? I heard that kind of stuff happens. And yes, old software was snappy. I remember using Microsoft Office for OS 9 on Jaguar . I bet it was more than enough for over 90% people's use today. My g4 could do video editing and rip DVDs .

surprisingly, it has difficulty running youtube in HD. I think one of the reasons that made me quit on my g4 was that latest version of browsers needed upgraded hardware , and websites today need the newer browsers to work. I bet all those new HTML5 website will NOT work on Tiger, making it hard to browse the web.

ihuman:D
Jul 29, 2013, 02:29 PM
I have following Apple for more than 10 years, I always thought the mirror was a design . I dont know how I never thought where the CD drive went.
What are the four holes at the bottom? Are they for sound?

For old computers, I know you can change the HDD but what about stuff like the motherboard dying? I heard that kind of stuff happens. And yes, old software was snappy. I remember using Microsoft Office for OS 9 on Jaguar . I bet it was more than enough for over 90% people's use today. My g4 could do video editing and rip DVDs .

surprisingly, it has difficulty running youtube in HD. I think one of the reasons that made me quit on my g4 was that latest version of browsers needed upgraded hardware , and websites today need the newer browsers to work. I bet all those new HTML5 website will NOT work on Tiger, making it hard to browse the web.

Its not suprising that HD YouTube does not work on a G4, they are at least 7 years old now.

All those htm5 websites DO work with Tiger, check out TenFourFox and TenFourKit.

666sheep
Jul 29, 2013, 02:57 PM
What are the four holes at the bottom? Are they for sound?


No, these were part of "wind tunnel" i.e. cooling. Speaker is on top of front panel.

For old computers, I know you can change the HDD but what about stuff like the motherboard dying?

Nowadays, you're just checking your local CL/kijiji/whatever and picking up one or two for spares ;)

MacBH928
Jul 29, 2013, 10:32 PM
No, these were part of "wind tunnel" i.e. cooling. Speaker is on top of front panel.



Nowadays, you're just checking your local CL/kijiji/whatever and picking up one or two for spares ;)

I like your profile pic, it reminded me of the time when companies were rivaling for the better platform not maximum profit.

Well...Apple still goes for the better platform, but they just picked up on the idea of mutual benefit instead of direct competition.

Still waiting to hear from the OP what does he use his computer for. Those later 90's early 2000s Apple computers must be the most mouthwatering computers(or products) ever built. They still look beautiful over 10 years later.

How much does a MDD cost now days?

666sheep
Jul 30, 2013, 12:40 PM
I like your profile pic, it reminded me of the time when companies were rivaling for the better platform not maximum profit.


Thanks, Intel is still considered satan, esp. in PowerPC forum ;) [Do not confuse with our respectable member Intell ofc].

How much does a MDD cost now days?

From few dozen to about 100 bucks on CL, depending on location. I've seen few for $30 or $50 recently and I didn't search deeply, just out of curiosity.

philz4life
Jul 30, 2013, 11:09 PM
I like your profile pic, it reminded me of the time when companies were rivaling for the better platform not maximum profit.

Well...Apple still goes for the better platform, but they just picked up on the idea of mutual benefit instead of direct competition.

Still waiting to hear from the OP what does he use his computer for. Those later 90's early 2000s Apple computers must be the most mouthwatering computers(or products) ever built. They still look beautiful over 10 years later.

How much does a MDD cost now days?

I got my MDD for $110, including a 500 GB hard drive. Even though it is 10(!) years old, my dual 1.25 is my everyday computer. It browses the web with ease on WebKit, and can even play 720p videos. I also have a 2007 MacBook, which is about equal in performance to the MDD. With these two, I probably won't need a new Mac until I go to college.
I agree with you on the design. That's the main reason I got my Powermac. In my opinion, the MDD is the best looking computer ever.
Stay tuned, in a few days I'll be posting pics of my SSD upgrade.

MacBH928
Jul 30, 2013, 11:56 PM
I got my MDD for $110, including a 500 GB hard drive. Even though it is 10(!) years old, my dual 1.25 is my everyday computer. It browses the web with ease on WebKit, and can even play 720p videos. I also have a 2007 MacBook, which is about equal in performance to the MDD. With these two, I probably won't need a new Mac until I go to college.
I agree with you on the design. That's the main reason I got my Powermac. In my opinion, the MDD is the best looking computer ever.
Stay tuned, in a few days I'll be posting pics of my SSD upgrade.

I am very very surprised you don't need an upgrade . I believe all software today will not run on a PowerPC. I think they stopped support for PowerPC like at least 3 years ago.

It will be interesting to see how does an SSD work with a 1.25 GHZ powerpc. IF you do not mind , update this thread with a link to your SSD coming post so I get a notification.

seveej
Jul 31, 2013, 04:27 AM
I am very very surprised you don't need an upgrade . I believe all software today will not run on a PowerPC. I think they stopped support for PowerPC like at least 3 years ago.

You should not be surprised. There's still a lot of PowerPC Macs around, and most of that old software (from up until about 2008) is still available in some form. Sure, there are some things which you can simply not do, but most of these are more constrained by hardware performance than the existence of suitable software.

I'm sitting at my summer house writing my master's thesis on an MDD2003, using dropbox and the same version of word I use on my more current gear (MBP and MP).

I have an older MDD running as 24/7 server, and my only gripe is that the bugger runs hot in summer (so I'm planning on replacing it with an early intel mini within 12 months), my father works 5-8 hours a day on his Powerbook G4...

To be honest, I could easily supply all my computing needs with PowerPC gear, were it not for the simple reason that I am an impatient person who spends too large a portion of his income on gear...

- all that said, an SSD is a worthwhile upgrade for a G4/G5, as long as you can boot from it. My mother-in-law's 12" PBG4 boots in 15 seconds flat.

RGDS,

ihuman:D
Jul 31, 2013, 04:35 AM
I am very very surprised you don't need an upgrade . I believe all software today will not run on a PowerPC. I think they stopped support for PowerPC like at least 3 years ago.

It will be interesting to see how does an SSD work with a 1.25 GHZ powerpc. IF you do not mind , update this thread with a link to your SSD coming post so I get a notification.

I play and run a game from '07, Office '08, iLife '08, current release of TenFourFox, current release of LeopardWebkit and a near current release of Mono. All on my PowerBook G4.

jbarley
Jul 31, 2013, 09:00 AM
It's spelled "Aluminium"
Maybe, where you live, in the real world it's spelt "Aluminum"

ihuman:D
Jul 31, 2013, 10:05 AM
Maybe, where you live, in the real world it's spelt "Aluminum"

No, in the real world it's spelled "aluminium", it's only in NA where it's spelled "aluminum". ;)

It's similar to "could care less", "could care less" doesn't make any sense if you mean to say you don't care about something. ;)

Swampus
Jul 31, 2013, 11:41 AM
No, in the real world it's spelled "aluminium", it's only in NA where it's spelled "aluminum". ;)

It's similar to "could care less", "could care less" doesn't make any sense if you mean to say you don't care about something. ;)

Yes, but debating the spelling of aluminum / -ium, which can vary geographically, detracts from your more important mission of raising awareness about the meaning of the phrase "couldn't care less" and the relative lack of meaning of the phrase "could care less". It's your choice, of course, but I think that's more worthy of your endeavors, more worthy to fight for.

subaiku
Jul 31, 2013, 11:56 AM
Hey philz4life, I was trying to upgrade my case and power supply fans too. But when I tried restarting my MDD, it could start up except the fans don't start up at all. I've read what you wrote about putting the red wire into the red wire pin but I also remember reading somewhere that for some fans you have to reverse that? As in put the red in where the black pin originally was.

These are the fans I used:
http://www.amazon.com/Cooler-Master-SickleFlow-Computer-R4-L2R-20AC-GP/dp/B0026ZPFCK

http://www.newboxx.com/item.php?id=12442

I know the fans are not defective because I tested them by plugging them into the MDD with a molex adapter the fans came with and they worked. Any ideas? Thanks in advance!

ihuman:D
Jul 31, 2013, 11:59 AM
Yes, but debating the spelling of aluminum / -ium, which can vary geographically, detracts from your more important mission of raising awareness about the meaning of the phrase "couldn't care less" and the relative lack of meaning of the phrase "could care less". It's your choice, of course, but I think that's more worthy of your endeavors, more worthy to fight for.

I honestly really don't care about either, I wasn't the one who brought it up, all snarky, in this thread. (Jbarley, if it bothers you that much I'll just remove it from my signature ;) )

Swampus
Jul 31, 2013, 12:06 PM
I honestly really don't care about either, I wasn't the one who brought it up, all snarky, in this thread. (Jbarley, if it bothers you that much I'll just remove it from my signature ;) )

In other words, you're saying that you couldn't care less?

Keep you signature. It's funny and I don't think anyone is being serious here! I'm not. :D

ihuman:D
Jul 31, 2013, 12:16 PM
In other words, you're saying that you couldn't care less?

Keep you signature. It's funny and I don't think anyone is being serious here! I'm not. :D

Haha, thanks! :D

MacBH928
Jul 31, 2013, 10:10 PM
You should not be surprised. There's still a lot of PowerPC Macs around, and most of that old software (from up until about 2008) is still available in some form. Sure, there are some things which you can simply not do, but most of these are more constrained by hardware performance than the existence of suitable software.

I'm sitting at my summer house writing my master's thesis on an MDD2003, using dropbox and the same version of word I use on my more current gear (MBP and MP).

I have an older MDD running as 24/7 server, and my only gripe is that the bugger runs hot in summer (so I'm planning on replacing it with an early intel mini within 12 months), my father works 5-8 hours a day on his Powerbook G4...

To be honest, I could easily supply all my computing needs with PowerPC gear, were it not for the simple reason that I am an impatient person who spends too large a portion of his income on gear...

- all that said, an SSD is a worthwhile upgrade for a G4/G5, as long as you can boot from it. My mother-in-law's 12" PBG4 boots in 15 seconds flat.

RGDS,

I am very interested by what you say, because computers and especially laptops always have a dying CD-ROM drive, motherboard, hard-drive , screen.

Do you think I can get a clamshell ibook, or the '12 white , to work fine from browsing the web today? Can it have wifi? Can it run youtube?

subaiku
Jul 31, 2013, 11:04 PM
Hi philz4life, I've got a question. I attempted to change my case and PSU fans as well on my MDD. But after I put them in and started up the MDD the fans don't start up. The fans I got had 3 pins and at first I just put the corresponding colour wire to it's original pinhole like you did, black to black, red to red. Didn't work. Reversing the red and black also didn't work.

These are the fan models I got:
http://www.amazon.com/Cooler-Master-SickleFlow-Computer-R4-L2R-20AC-GP/dp/B0026ZPFCK

http://www.newboxx.com/item.php?id=12442

Any ideas what's gone wrong?

Swampus
Aug 1, 2013, 12:11 AM
Hi philz4life, I've got a question. I attempted to change my case and PSU fans as well on my MDD. But after I put them in and started up the MDD the fans don't start up. The fans I got had 3 pins and at first I just put the corresponding colour wire to it's original pinhole like you did, black to black, red to red. Didn't work. Reversing the red and black also didn't work.

These are the fan models I got:
http://www.amazon.com/Cooler-Master-SickleFlow-Computer-R4-L2R-20AC-GP/dp/B0026ZPFCK

http://www.newboxx.com/item.php?id=12442

Any ideas what's gone wrong?

Be careful about reversing polarity. Although it shouldn't damage the fan motor, it could, depending on the circuitry, damage the LED.

There are only three possibilities:

1) Faulty fans. Unlikely for all three of your new fans to be faulty.

2) Faulty motherboard / PSU connectors. Unlikely if the previous fans were working.

3) You have not made an electrical circuit. Did you strip the wires? Maybe post some pictures of the work that you have done?

rabidz7
Aug 1, 2013, 01:18 PM
I am very very surprised you don't need an upgrade . I believe all software today will not run on a PowerPC. I think they stopped support for PowerPC like at least 3 years ago.

It will be interesting to see how does an SSD work with a 1.25 GHZ powerpc. IF you do not mind , update this thread with a link to your SSD coming post so I get a notification.

The bay with pirate ships full of softwarez in them still has PowerPC copies of all applications that are not currently supported.

seveej
Aug 2, 2013, 01:55 PM
I am very interested by what you say, because computers and especially laptops always have a dying CD-ROM drive, motherboard, hard-drive , screen.

Do you think I can get a clamshell ibook, or the '12 white , to work fine from browsing the web today? Can it have wifi? Can it run youtube?

On the first thing: Yes, computers break - as does everything, but in my not so humble experience, and looking past some well known debacles, computer hardware is far more resilient than you could expect by reading forums. I strongly feel that a lot privately told tales of "broken" devices are mainly stories which are presented in order to motivate buying the newest and finest. I've even resorted to this type of subterfuge myself sometimes...

If the hardware is handled with care, the breakdown percentage is quite tolerable. I have a friend who repairs iPhones for a living, and his experience is that over 95 % of iPhone failures are to be attributed to
users dropping their iPhones - either into liquid or a hard surface. Regarding older gear, the problem lies mainly in the (relatively) excessive price of having a proficient technician do his magic combined with the relatively low know-how and interest-level of common users. I used to consult with some companies in the graphics industry, and even the slightest hiccup could lead to out-of-warranty computers ending up in the "to be recycled" -heap. I think the "my car ran out of gas so I go a new one" -story has to be inspired with someone who had worked in IT...

The easiest 600 I ever made was with a DC G5, which had been given to me as "dead" and turned out to be a wobbly power connector on the logic board..

I've had (after 20+ years of daily intensive computer use) only one case in
which the computer was ruined due to a hardware fault - a dodgy PSU which fried the motherboard (and NIC+GPU). Otherwise the usual culprits are Hard drives (that's why you keep backups), fans (especially the smaller ones) and DVD drives (easily replaced...). Usually none of these are terminal as components are made to be exchanged...

That said, these types of component failures are not as typical as reading these forums would lead you to believe. I buy a lot of components nth-hand (for personal use), and besides some dodgy RAM (which I dug up from a one-euro discount bin), I have not suffered a broken component for at least four years.

Except my iPhone 4, I do not currently own a single piece of computing hardware which I had not bought used. I usually source my used gear locally, and avoid making trades with nameless sellers. I tend to sound out the seller, and am easily convinced by the life-story of the hardware. Likewise, I sell a lot of stuff forward and have not heard from anyone who would have complained that the gear would have broken.

As a rule of thumb you could say, that if the hardware is at least three years old (so that any built-in deficiencies have had the time to surface), and the seller has clearly not mistreated the gear, you're quite safe. So what if you buy an MDD and the superdrive breaks - get a new (or used) one.

For me the real sin is in all those people who don't bother to recycle their hardware and leave it standing in the rain besides the dumpster. My dream is that Apple (or some other hardware manufacturer) would finance the postage of sending broken or spent hardware for evaluation and selective recycling...

On the second point you raise,
People need to keep in mind, that the full "HD experience" is not what everyone uses their computers for. Most people who accept the idea of buying a computer X years old also accept that they should not expect to be able to do everything invented in those X years.

I regularly blow the dust off my late 2001 12" iBook (which does not differ from a clamshell iBook that much) and take it for a spin. I've upgraded the HDD (the old one was getting noisy, and I've maxed out the RAM (to a whopping 640 MB) and added an Airport card. It runs Tiger nicely. I use it whenever I would worry too much about my MBP (whenever I'm in dirty/dusty surroundings or where the risk of someone stealing it is heightened.) If I'm outside of WLAN coverage I use a 3G USB dongle, which works nicely on the iBook's USB 1.1. It handles office, basic internet and email without a hitch. I admit it's as old as my car, but I do not yet think of my car as an "old" car.

I admit there are a lot of things I *could* do on my MBP, which I cannot use the iBook for, but most of those things are such that I do not do them anyway, such as:
- Viewing HD video. Good movies are not made better by adding pixels or sound channels. The iBook plays DVD's nicely.
- Browsing youtube. Except a minuscule percentage, the stuff's not worth spending time on.
- Playing 3D-games. Quite honestly I feel 3D has been a mixed blessing for games...
- Flash-stuff. I've systematically uninstalled flash on all PPC machines and blocked (click-to'ed) Flash on all my Intel gear - I can't say I miss it, infact, the web is so much better once all that flash-content is bypassed...
- Video and 3D-crunching. But who would buy a 12-year old computer with that intent...

The only real gripe i have about the performance of the iBook is that there are starting to be some quite productivity -oriented sites which utilize javascript so intensely, that the machine slows to a crawl. Just today I tried to look up the inventory of a hardware store, and the experience was baaad...

One final note: PPC software-wise is a potential problem, especially as time progresses, but (assuming you can accept missing out on the latest and greatest) not yet. In fact, I still feel that the lack of PPC support past Snow Leopard (have not yet gone past SL, even sold a nice MBP which came with Lion) is a greater problem than the availability of PPC apps...

RGDS,

Swampus
Aug 2, 2013, 02:21 PM
Nice post, seveej. I tend to agree. I suspect that logic board failures, especially in G4 models, are greatly over-reported. I've purchased several that were advertised that way as parts machines, but it was something stupidly simple in every case. The memory needed to be reseated in one. The video card needed to be reseated in another. The third actually had a bad video card, but all of the motherboards were fine.

G4s are amazingly dependable machines. Build one that you like and then pick up a parts machine for $40 and you're good to go for a very long time.

Things made during the Capacitor Plague (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague) tend to have a higher than normal failure rate, but even that depends on how you look at it. I don't equate a failed capacitor with a failed board. A few dollars and an hour or two of my time equals minor annoyance, not catastrophic failure.

MacBH928
Aug 3, 2013, 02:13 PM
I am looking into clamshells right now... thanks.

How do you deal with batteries? these die like in 3 years or so. Do they still sell parts for it?

subaiku
Aug 5, 2013, 02:43 AM
Be careful about reversing polarity. Although it shouldn't damage the fan motor, it could, depending on the circuitry, damage the LED.

There are only three possibilities:

1) Faulty fans. Unlikely for all three of your new fans to be faulty.

2) Faulty motherboard / PSU connectors. Unlikely if the previous fans were working.

3) You have not made an electrical circuit. Did you strip the wires? Maybe post some pictures of the work that you have done?

Thanks Swampus! I managed to work it out in the end. I fiddled around with the fans wires and tried connecting differently to the 2 pin connectors and found out it was because they just weren't connected properly. You indeed have to plug the red to the red and the black to the blacks EXACTLY. (Didn't help that the case fan wires had no colours :p)

Problem solved! :)

Although the fan noise isn't as quiet as I hoped it'd be. Is it supposed to be 'whisper quiet' as reported by most people?

philz4life
Aug 5, 2013, 01:13 PM
Thanks Swampus! I managed to work it out in the end. I fiddled around with the fans wires and tried connecting differently to the 2 pin connectors and found out it was because they just weren't connected properly. You indeed have to plug the red to the red and the black to the blacks EXACTLY. (Didn't help that the case fan wires had no colours :p)

Problem solved! :)

Although the fan noise isn't as quiet as I hoped it'd be. Is it supposed to be 'whisper quiet' as reported by most people?

sorry that I didn't answer to you before. Mine isn't 'whisper quiet' either, but it is definitely an improvement. I haven't replaced my case fan yet, so hopefully it will help more. People who say theirs are whisper quiet probably have CHUD installed, which throttles down the CPUs when they aren't in high use. I haven't been able to use it yet, but my SSD parts should come today so I'll be able to get back to you on this soon.

----------

I am looking into clamshells right now... thanks.

How do you deal with batteries? these die like in 3 years or so. Do they still sell parts for it?

If you get one with a bad battery, just get a replacement from eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Battery-for-Apple-iBook-clamshell-m2453-1999-m7426-m7621-M6392-M6411-/280728595085?pt=Laptop_Batteries&hash=item415cba6a8d)
Luckily people still do sell parts for them.

subaiku
Aug 6, 2013, 12:51 AM
[QUOTE=philz4life;17686163]sorry that I didn't answer to you before. Mine isn't 'whisper quiet' either, but it is definitely an improvement. I haven't replaced my case fan yet, so hopefully it will help more. People who say theirs are whisper quiet probably have CHUD installed, which throttles down the CPUs when they aren't in high use. I haven't been able to use it yet, but my SSD parts should come today so I'll be able to get back to you on this soon.[COLOR="#808080"]

No worries. I have CHUD installed and and even with all my case and power unit fans replaced, there is still a 'hum' which is quite noticable. I've opened up the case to take a look and found out it's still the power unit fans that are making the most noise. The case fan and motherboard fan is practically noiseless.

DZ/015
Aug 6, 2013, 01:04 AM
Those 2 60mm fans on the power supply are never very quiet.

I tried several differenet ones before I gave up and just gutted the power supply and used a single 80mm fan. Much quieter now.

Andropov
Aug 6, 2013, 07:09 AM
Those 2 60mm fans on the power supply are never very quiet.

I tried several differenet ones before I gave up and just gutted the power supply and used a single 80mm fan. Much quieter now.

Did you tried with Noctua fans?

Swampus
Aug 7, 2013, 12:01 AM
Thanks Swampus! I managed to work it out in the end. I fiddled around with the fans wires and tried connecting differently to the 2 pin connectors and found out it was because they just weren't connected properly. You indeed have to plug the red to the red and the black to the blacks EXACTLY. (Didn't help that the case fan wires had no colours :p)

Problem solved! :)

Although the fan noise isn't as quiet as I hoped it'd be. Is it supposed to be 'whisper quiet' as reported by most people?

I don't have any experience with those particular fans. I opted for the Vantec TF6025s in mine. They're much better than OEM, but I've never met an MDD that that I'd call "whisper quiet". I suspect that Aquamac's liquid cooled MDD would be the only one to claim that distinction. My Vantecs are quiet enough that I don't hear them over music or TV played at low volume. That's enough for me.

subaiku
Aug 8, 2013, 01:25 AM
Those 2 60mm fans on the power supply are never very quiet.

I tried several differenet ones before I gave up and just gutted the power supply and used a single 80mm fan. Much quieter now.

Would you have a tutorial of some sort of how you did your replacement?

I don't have any experience with those particular fans. I opted for the Vantec TF6025s in mine. They're much better than OEM, but I've never met an MDD that that I'd call "whisper quiet". I suspect that Aquamac's liquid cooled MDD would be the only one to claim that distinction. My Vantecs are quiet enough that I don't hear them over music or TV played at low volume. That's enough for me.

Is this it? Looks interesting, I might give it a go one day.
http://www.s155158671.websitehome.co.uk/watercoolyourmdd.html

But yeah, the noise from my MDD is tolerable now with music on.

madhatmac
Oct 8, 2013, 07:16 AM
Hi Folks,

I finally performed this fan mod!

Step 1)
Even before I changed the power supply fans, however, I changed the single main 120 mm cooling fan to a SilenX iXtrema Pro Fan (IXP-76-18). This mod didn't seem to make much difference in noise reduction, however.

The temps with the original 120mm fan got to about 56C.

439481

With the SilenX installed, the temps jumped to 59C. So perhaps the 90CFM rating is not accurate.

439482

So this fan mod wasn't all it was cut out to be but I left the SilenX fan in there anyway.

Step 2)
The next task was to change the power supply fans. These I changed with exactly the same fans as philz4life: the Everflow F126025DH DC (which can be found on the Thermaltake Volcano 5 heatsink).

This fan mod definitely reduced the noise considerably but I certainly wouldn't say the MDD was "quiet". I would say it is noisier than my G5 PowerMac. Nevertheless, it is now at a tolerable noise level.

I think the air coming out the back of the power supply is slightly less but the MDD has so far held up to testing. (Some folks say the ratings on these fans isn't really 32CFM but more like 24CFM.)

Step 3)
Now, the next step was to install CHUD 3.5.2.

When I turned on CHUD's Nap mode, you can noticeably hear the fan noise increase to a higher pitch/whine. So, with Nap mode on, the machine is louder but still not as bad as with the original power supply fans and no Nap mode.

The benefit of Nap mode was to see the temperatures drastically drop. While idle, the MDD would run at 33C as opposed to 59C without Nap mode.

439483

While performing tasks, however, the temps could get up to 59C.

439484

Anyway, thanks to philz4life for the original post (the photos were a great help) and thanks to Swampus for the instructions on how to create an Applescript to launch CHUD at start up.

My next step might be to put the original 120mm fan back in. I don't think mine was that noisy and it kept the temps 4C lower.

Swampus
Oct 8, 2013, 10:46 PM
439483

While performing tasks, however, the temps could get up to 59C.

439484

Anyway, thanks to philz4life for the original post (the photos were a great help) and thanks to Swampus for the instructions on how to create an Applescript to launch CHUD at start up.

My next step might be to put the original 120mm fan back in. I don't think mine was that noisy and it kept the temps 4C lower.

What kind of CPU load are we talking about to get that 59C? What is your ambient room temperature where the machine is operating? Your idle temperature looks okay, but the load temperature would be a little high for my comfort. It's within specs, but at the high end of the operating range specified by Motorolla. I can run mine at 80 to 90+% CPU for an hour and not break 50C (with a room temperature of 70F).

The new Intel chips can safely run much hotter, but IIRC, 62C is considered the upper limit for these 7455s.

Did you get a chance to redo the thermal compound? If not, that could be the missing piece of the puzzle. If you've done the thermal compound, then yeah, I'd definitely consider putting the noisier fan back in. I might also consider adding a couple more fans. An exhaust fan positioned between the CPU heatsink and the rear of the case, so that it actually pulls air through the cooling fins, can be helpful. To my thinking, an intake fan of equal to or greater value than the exhaust fan would also need to be placed in the front. I'm not an engineer, but I think the same could be said of the people who originally designed this. My thinking is that an exhaust fan by itself would create competition for the PSU fans, so it needs to be paired with an intake fan in the front to offset what is being pulled from the back in order to maintain the same equilibrium. Whether my reasoning is right or wrong, this actually did work well for me for several years before I discovered CHUD. I ran mine this way from 2004 to 2008 and it made about a six degree difference (not as much as nap mode, but still helpful).

Cox Orange
Oct 9, 2013, 04:27 PM
I know the door fan is not the real noise factor, but may I ask, does only a 60x10mm fan fit in there or is there some more room?

Swampus
Oct 9, 2013, 05:28 PM
I know the door fan is not the real noise factor, but may I ask, does only a 60x10mm fan fit in there or is there some more room?

It's actually 15mm. It just looks like 10mm because a third of it is below the door. I don't think you'd have much leeway without some modifications. Maybe a extra millimeter or two, but not enough to accommodate the next standard fan size. If you didn't have an optical drive, and were using the optical bay for 3.5 inch or smaller drives, then yes, you could install a 20 or 25mm fan and cut out a corresponding square in the optical cage.

madhatmac
Oct 10, 2013, 04:26 AM
What kind of CPU load are we talking about to get that 59C? What is your ambient room temperature where the machine is operating? Your idle temperature looks okay, but the load temperature would be a little high for my comfort. It's within specs, but at the high end of the operating range specified by Motorolla. I can run mine at 80 to 90+% CPU for an hour and not break 50C (with a room temperature of 70F).

Hi Swampus. It's really only a hobby computer and I was playing Return to Castle Wolfenstein for a good hour before checking the temps. I don't know the exact % CPU load. I'll have to check and get back to you :)

Did you get a chance to redo the thermal compound? If not, that could be the missing piece of the puzzle.

No, I didn't do the thermal compound. That sounds like a good idea. I might give it a go (especially since I just bought some Artic Silver to fix the neighbour's flat-panel G4 iMac).

I've put the MDD away in storage at the moment but I'll get it out again to tinker with, I think. It might be a few weeks before I can work on it again but I'll be sure to post my findings.

Thanks for all your comments :)

Cox Orange
Oct 10, 2013, 10:16 AM
It's actually 15mm. It just looks like 10mm because a third of it is below the door. I don't think you'd have much leeway without some modifications. Maybe a extra millimeter or two, but not enough to accommodate the next standard fan size. If you didn't have an optical drive, and were using the optical bay for 3.5 inch or smaller drives, then yes, you could install a 20 or 25mm fan and cut out a corresponding square in the optical cage.
Ah, ok. Somehow I had written down 60x10 in my notes (was a mistake, because I jumped in the line of a replacement fan that specs were given, above that I have the Delta AFB0612HHB, which is, as you say, a 60x15mm).

I found this, which I wanted to share: http://skinflint.co.uk/eu/fander-roxo-ultra-silent-60x60x15mm-a-a654488.html
It is a tad above the Delta in terms of airflow, but much quieter, if the specs are really true.

madhatmac
Feb 13, 2014, 04:13 AM
Did you get a chance to redo the thermal compound?

Hi Swampus,

I finally got around to redoing the thermal compound with some Arctic Silver.

Here are my temps. They have increased!!!

--------------------------------------------
CHUD not activated while idle:

460774

CHUD not activated while under load:

460775
--------------------------------------------

And...

--------------------------------------------
CHUD activated while idle:

460776

CHUD activated while under load:

460777
--------------------------------------------

Please note a few things:
- I have an ATI Radeon X800 XT graphics card installed (previously OEM card)
- I have 3 hard drives in the machine (previously just 1 hard drive)
- the ambient temperature is hotter now (summer in Australia). The room temperature was about 28C when tested.

So this is one hot MDD. It almost hit 70C! I wonder what the max is before it shuts down?