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dogbone
Oct 22, 2005, 09:02 AM
I used to use Quark 4 at work and got pretty used to it. It was nice and clean and simple.

I'm now having to learn Indesign CS because I can't afford Quark 6.

I've only just started with InDesign and I don't like it much yet. My question is to anyone who has made the switch...

Will I come to like InDesign eventually?



Blue Velvet
Oct 22, 2005, 09:22 AM
Will I come to like InDesign eventually?

You probably will -- many people, once they get used to it, can't stand the idea of using Quark again.


You might find these sites helpful in switching. Good luck.
http://www.indesignusergroup.com/
http://quarkvsindesign.com/news/
http://prepressforums.com/modules.php?name=Forums

Cleopatra
Oct 22, 2005, 09:37 AM
I used Quark 4 two years ago - but hated that it did'nt have all the cool stuff that InDesign had. So I started to tray out InDesign on my own initative. Now in my new job I'm a happy user of InDesign, since they don't use Quark at all. :D

dogbone
Oct 22, 2005, 11:10 AM
OK thanks, I feel better about it now.

prophet621
Oct 28, 2005, 07:08 PM
I recently started to use Quark 6.5 and InDesign CS2 at work. Mostly just playing around in the beginning to see what they can do and which I would like to devote more time into learning.

I can honestly say without any hesitation that I will take InDesign anyday over Quark. I don't know anout the earlier versions of InDesign but I have toyed around with CS and CS2. ID is simply a vastly superior app in my opinion.

From my understanding the next version of Quark is said to be a huge improvment over 6 but also from my understanding, many will not be going back to Quark. Partially from getting adjusted to ID and partially from Quark killing their customer base.

When you are accustomed to one app and know many of the tricks and such, it's difficult and often frustrating to adjust to a new one. Hang in there, InDesign is a very polished app and I have no doubts that when you become more comfortable with it, you will be able to do things much faster, easier and with better results than you ever could with Quark 4....or even arguably 6.

Also from my understanding, many companies are making the jump to ID and not looking back. Even if you do prefer Quark, knowing a bit about Id wouldn't hurt.

Sparky's
Oct 29, 2005, 03:54 PM
I started using Quark in the late '80s (v2.x) and touted it as the absolute page-layout program in the industry (Commercial Printing and Graphic Design) I then started to use ID 1.x when we became Adobe ASN members (Adobe Solutions Network) I now use ID CS2 and also have Quack 6.5 on my workstation. Once I got used to the interface and realized how similar to Photoshop, Illustrator, Go Live and the other Adobe products I have completely switched my views. Quark is Lame at best, there attempt to create PDF's directly from the app were pitiful at best and my peers in the industry will sometimes refuse them because of all the problems. Adobe owns the "Postscript" language and has it working well. Anything outside this in the way of third party apps or weak attempts to "chase" Adobe should be look at with disdain.
But hey I've only been doing this for 35 years;) mare than 20 of it on computers, so take my opinion with a grain, or a stiff drink:D

cgratti
Oct 30, 2005, 08:01 PM
I switched from Quark 6 to inDesign.. Dont mind either now.....

dogbone
Oct 30, 2005, 08:46 PM
I'm liking the way it works the more I use it, the first thing I noticed was the logical way to flow text over different boxes. Quark always seems so clunky the way it did it.

Dm84
Oct 30, 2005, 08:48 PM
I have and use both. I prefer to use InDesign, but sometimes I find it easier to do a certain project in Quark, since that's what I'm much more familiar with. I'm slowly becoming equally as comfortable in InDesign, it's just taking me longer than I thought it would.

narco
Oct 30, 2005, 08:55 PM
Oh no, here we go again!

I pretty much end every Quark vs. InDesign debate the same way I end a Mac vs. Windows debate: it's all personal preference. Most (if not all) printers only work with PDFs now (depending on the job), so it's really about what you feel comfortable using, or what you can afford. Both programs make PDF files, so all is well.

Fishes,
narco.

dogbone
Oct 30, 2005, 10:37 PM
I suppose the thing I miss the most about quark 4 was that I could delete empty text boxes by summoning up the little monster with the atomic bazooka to obliterate them.

iGav
Oct 31, 2005, 08:27 AM
Quark was one of the major reasons that I didn't go into print design, that and not very good salaries of course. heheh.

Blue Velvet
Oct 31, 2005, 08:33 AM
Quark was one of the major reasons that I didn't go into print design, that and not very good salaries of course. heheh.

Fine. So when we do eventually meet up, you'll be getting the drinks in then. :D

MaGiCSuN
Oct 31, 2005, 02:46 PM
agreeing with narco

i hate indesign, because i'm used to quark. I know most of the shortcut keys now .. and in indesign they are all different again (yes you can change them, but then when i get to work at some company i have to learn them all over again)

it's all about what you are used to. I know people who are used to indesign and hate quark and vice versa.

it's comparing apples and oranges in my opinion

Love,
Mirna

Sparky's
Nov 5, 2005, 01:24 PM
I use InDesign on both Mac and PC, Quark on both, PageMaker on both, Publisher (PC only) and even Word (again on PC only) when I have to. The customer base in the commercial printing world is still stuck back in the "I can do it in Word, why can't you print it?? " era, so I'm forced to know all the apps they bring in. I have over the last few years learned and memorized all the different "key-commands" for all of them, and can go from one machine to another with ease... but my preference to work in leans to InDesign. That's a decision I've made after spending more than 10 years defending Quark, and once I learned ID and saw what it could for me I know cringe when I have to launch Quark and work on customer files. InDesign CS2 will open any Quark document (v.4.1 and earlier) with seamless ease, so I am also in the habit and or practice of opening all my old Quark docs into ID and saving them that way:cool:

kagosage
Nov 13, 2005, 07:24 PM
I am 150% happy with InDesign cs2. It is the best... But I can't say that I don't like Quark. I love adobe products, quark, and macromedia. But the good thing about them all is that they keep each other in check (except macromedia and adobe are now one company). But the advantage of having all these programs is that they keep the price more competitive and better features... There are a perfect example of it...

late 80's pagemaker ruled the world....
then cam quark in the late 90's and it ruled the world for most of the 90's...
this caused adobe to rethink their plan and develop pagemaker from the ground up, thus the birth of indesign...

Now that indesign is starting to dominate it is getting quark to get off their butt's and better their product (which was static for the longest time because they felt they had no competition.)

Now Indesign has the best, quark will be releasing version 7 shortly and it will be a lot better or the best. Who knows. It will go back and forth. I am anxious to see the products yet to come in the near future... Quark might be the king again the next decade, maybe indesign, maybe another that is not yet invented. Competition is good!

P.S. That little monster dude that destroys the boxes still exists in version 6, I am not sure about 6.5 though. I imagine so.

jefhatfield
Nov 13, 2005, 07:37 PM
from not being a designer and not knowing too much about the products, i took a class that utilized a few different softwares and the most difficult to use was quark

i found adobe products to be much more intuitive, though not as much as applework or microsoft office products, and the adobe products worked the same and when the class switched to a project in quark, it bamboozled some of us, especially the beginners

quark may still be the standard as i have been hearing graphic designers say for a long time now, perhaps always, and i am glad that i won't have to master it

eclipse
Nov 18, 2005, 10:53 PM
I have to say it again, if my wife was not already the "Master Designer" using Quark, as a total newbie the fact that CS2 has almost everything you need would "convert" me to being completely loyal to ID. I mean, we have 2 machines to load up. How much will that cost? I still don't have the latest Quark on my machine and am just learning the basics now with VTC... but I just today read to her this thread and complained that I wanted us to switch to ID.

Her answer? "I use Quark, and have my brain totally around Quark. Deal with it." Oh well, she's the boss! :D

But for much larger newspapers etc I understand that they are saving hundreds and hundreds of dollars per machine just sticking with ID, purely from a software cost POV. What are others here making of future trends for Quark fees versus the fact that ID comes with all your other design software in CS2, cheaper than Quark is on it's own? Any rumours?

Dm84
Nov 18, 2005, 10:59 PM
The overwhelming majority of publications still use Quark. In fact in some of the smaller dailys, there are people running archaic versions of Quark on System 7 or OS 8. They'll keep using that outdated equipment and software until it doesn't work anymore... and if that hasn't happened yet, god only knows when it will.

eclipse
Nov 18, 2005, 11:03 PM
But when Quark was taking too long to convert their software over to OS X, my futurist mate Craig at http://futuretrends.tv/ said he was at a forum where the presenter asked,
"Hands up here if you are sick of overpriced Quark arrogantly forcing us to work in Classic, and are thinking of switching to Indesign?"

Overwhelmingly the whole audience stuck up their hands.

Smaller papers are one thing, but I have it on good authority that the Sydney Morning Herald works mainly in CS2. What's it liek where you are?

Dm84
Nov 18, 2005, 11:10 PM
But when Quark was taking too long to convert their software over to OS X, my futurist mate Craig at http://futuretrends.tv/ said he was at a forum where the presenter asked,
"Hands up here if you are sick of overpriced Quark arrogantly forcing us to work in Classic, and are thinking of switching to Indesign?"

Overwhelmingly the whole audience stuck up their hands.

Smaller papers are one thing, but I have it on good authority that the Sydney Morning Herald works mainly in CS2. What's it liek where you are?I can confirm that as of a few months ago, the New York Times still uses Quark. In most cases it boils down to Quark having a stranglehold over major American papers by offering them special deals to keep them from switching to InDesign, not to mention that the time and cost that would be necessary to retrain the designers with InDesign holds many larger operations back from switching.

And the smaller ones won't upgrade anything until it breaks.

Chip NoVaMac
Nov 18, 2005, 11:43 PM
You probably will -- many people, once they get used to it, can't stand the idea of using Quark again.


You might find these sites helpful in switching. Good luck.
http://www.indesignusergroup.com/
http://quarkvsindesign.com/news/
http://prepressforums.com/modules.php?name=Forums

I agree.

In my past job of doing ads for a local company, i started with using MS Publisher. Yes, MS Publisher. In order to get the ads accepted by the newspaper (Washington Post), my first ads were printed on glossy stock and sen to them for final publishing.

I did find work arounds that allowed me to do PDF's (via doing a postscript file, then to Acrobat ,then to Quite A Box of Tricks). Then I found InDesign. InDesign allowed me to do a major four color insert for Black Friday 2004.

Over the years I had opportunities to play with Quark. But I never felt at ease wit it compared to the "consumer" page layout programs.

Chip NoVaMac
Nov 18, 2005, 11:52 PM
I use InDesign on both Mac and PC, Quark on both, PageMaker on both, Publisher (PC only) and even Word (again on PC only) when I have to. The customer base in the commercial printing world is still stuck back in the "I can do it in Word, why can't you print it?? " era, so I'm forced to know all the apps they bring in. I have over the last few years learned and memorized all the different "key-commands" for all of them, and can go from one machine to another with ease... but my preference to work in leans to InDesign. That's a decision I've made after spending more than 10 years defending Quark, and once I learned ID and saw what it could for me I know cringe when I have to launch Quark and work on customer files. InDesign CS2 will open any Quark document (v.4.1 and earlier) with seamless ease, so I am also in the habit and or practice of opening all my old Quark docs into ID and saving them that way:cool:

You hit on an issue for "printers". My printer (when I headed the "advertising" group for my company), hated when some within the company gave them Word files that passed as DTP. They were more than willing to work with me on MS Publisher files.

There is a great need for for compatibility with mainstream "publishing" and the smaller "shop/office".

eclipse
Nov 19, 2005, 12:00 AM
can you ever see Open Source being the standard?

Blue Velvet
Nov 19, 2005, 02:17 AM
Over the years I had opportunities to play with Quark. But I never felt at ease wit it compared to the "consumer" page layout programs.


As far as Quark is concerned, I think it depends on what your first experiences with it are and how you are taught to use it. Much power use of Quark depends on keyboard shortcuts that are invisible and not displayed as menu items at all.

When I first started out, I was lucky enough to work through Quark's official structured training so learned it in the manner that it was intended.

Using it now is like breathing for me: second nature. That's not to say that I particularly enjoy some its quirks, atrociously-implemented features and its bugginess... but I have my workarounds which enable me to stay in a comfort zone which in turn, facilitates creativity and enables me to hit my deadlines and get stuff to press.

chaosbunny
Nov 19, 2005, 04:08 AM
If you are switching from quark 4 to indesign: go to Edit/Keyboard Shortcuts, you can set the keyboard shortcuts to quark 4 there. Just came to my mind and thought I'll let you know in case you haven't done it already.

Lacero
Nov 19, 2005, 04:17 AM
I've been a loyal Quark user for the last 10 years. Reading this thread has made me want to try out InDesign. I did briefly use it several years ago on a PowerMac 7xxx series 233Mhz computer and it ran like a dog.

Was using Quark 4 at that time, I believe. Anyway, sounds like Adobe finally made a viable Quark competitor. But first, I'll see how revolutionary Quark 7 is before I decide jumping over to ID exclusively.

eclipse
Nov 19, 2005, 04:24 AM
Hi Lacero,
as my wife says... if you use Quark and know it inside out, won't it cost you far more in "opportunity cost" of time lost where you could have been working in Quark? If it works, and it's earning you stacks of dosh, then why not stay with it?

If my wife was starting out today, then we'd both stick with CS2 and ID.
Much cheaper to buy. But as she knows Quark and has a business to run, well.... it just depends how busy you are I guess. It never hurts to learn another program!

ITASOR
Nov 19, 2005, 05:48 PM
I have them both (starting to get interested in desktop publishing) and I can truly say that I really like InDesign better. I can do so much more, and because I know how to use Photoshop and Imageready really well, I started InDesign knowing at least some knowledge. I like the way it works better, the way it handles images, etc. I also think it exports to PDF easier and nicer, with the PDF Presets. I can produce a quick draft PDF of my newsletters and easily show them to anyone. I did like starting out on Quark, with the simple tools and layout of the program, but once I got REALLY into it, I started to see all the additional settings, etc I could do in InDesign, and I don't plan on using Quark anymore.

slooksterPSV
Nov 20, 2005, 01:20 AM
I used to use Quark 4 at work and got pretty used to it. It was nice and clean and simple.

I'm now having to learn Indesign CS because I can't afford Quark 6.

I've only just started with InDesign and I don't like it much yet. My question is to anyone who has made the switch...

Will I come to like InDesign eventually?
We used Quark 5 in my Graphics class 2 years ago. It was ok, but once we used Indesign we got rid of Quark... well we don't use it. We keep it cause my teacher is a Graphics Designer for some places and that. So for file purposes that's why we have it still. But InDesign has so many more features than Quark. And, if you're familiar with Adobe apps, it's easy to learn to use.

Mass Hysteria
Nov 28, 2005, 06:17 PM
Indesign is great for designery work fiddly to use.

Quark has less features than ID, but is quick for 'banging out' artwork.

It just depends what you need to do, for myself at work its mostly artworking, (adverts/magazines/brochures) so for me the maths of purchasing software would be simple . . .

. . . I am 5-6x more productive with Quark

(my work also has InDesign, because, for artworking you need to manipulate images, create logos, produce and edit PDFs, so you may aswell get the whole creative suite too!)

skirklan
Dec 8, 2005, 12:57 PM
I couldn't get a job anywhere when I first started out because I was using InDesign instead of what I fondly refer to as Quirk. Everybody and their brother was using it, especially magazines and ad agencies. Now, the tides are turning. A lot of it has to do with improvements Adobe made in InDesign; and the fact that postscript works better with Adobe products than as third party software, but some of it has to do with financial problems and whether Quark will be around long enough to offer product support.

I stumbled on this article that may be of interest:
How Adobe is Pushing Quark Off the Page
http://www.business2.com/b2/web/articles/0,17863,1095681,00.html

Chad A Wright
Dec 9, 2005, 06:54 PM
But as she knows Quark and has a business to run, well.... it just depends how busy you are I guess. It never hurts to learn another program!

I was using Quark exclusively, and had for years. I too make my living at this and didn't have any time to "learn a new program." Through an odd set of circumstances, a friend talked me in to using InDesign on a project. I managed to make a complete switch in the space of a weekend. I just stopped designing in Quark and started in ID. They are so similar, it wasn't a problem at all.

I still keep Quark because I have a few clients who I do work for every few months, so some of there files haven't been updated to ID yet. Plus it's good to have around. You never know when you will need it.

eclipse
Dec 10, 2005, 03:51 PM
One weekend?
Cool! :cool:

But you have to keep Quark anyway?
Oh well, maybe there's no point in my wife changing over then.