The October 2005 Power Mac G5 Value Equation

[MacBytes]

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Category: Apple Hardware
Link: The October 2005 Power Mac G5 Value Equation (http://www.macbytes.com/link.php?sid=20051023125619)

Posted on MacBytes.com (http://www.macbytes.com)
Approved by Mudbug

[Chacala_Nayarit]

Yes, indeed, an objective value comparrison. By the time I have money for a PowerMac will be late August 2006, so maybe the Intel models will be available.:cool:

[Blackheart]

My favorite is the comparison of RAM Finally, the new Power Macs support up to 16 GB of RAM, twice as much as before. Yeah, because they added more slots... :rolleyes: No, it's because Apple now sells 2 GB sticks. You can get 16 GB of RAM with the old models too; just use 2 GB sticks.

[ipacmm]

My favorite is the comparison of RAM Yeah, because they added more slots... :rolleyes: No, it's because Apple now sells 2 GB sticks. You can get 16 GB of RAM with the old models too; just use 2 GB sticks.

I never understood why Apple didn't sell the 2GB sticks for the last G5's...

[Blackheart]

I never understood why Apple didn't sell the 2GB sticks for the last G5's...

Probably so they could "double" the RAM with the next revision. :rolleyes:

[ipacmm]

Probably so they could "double" the RAM with the next revision. :rolleyes:

haha. very ture, but I wish the price was double the 1gb price...from $120 for a 1GB stick to $240 for a 2GB not to $1352.99 that Crciual wants for it.

[Santaduck]

also see barefeat's article and related pages... here (http://www.barefeats.com/quadcore.html)

Barefeats notes that Apple has a page for people who have a significant investment in PCI-X cards:
http://www.apple.com/powermac/pcix.html

[sjk]

I never understood why Apple didn't sell the 2GB sticks for the last G5's...Have you ever seen DDR 2GB DIMMs? Moving to DDR2 is the reason PMs can now support 16GB.

haha. very ture, but I wish the price was double the 1gb price...from $120 for a 1GB stick to $240 for a 2GB not to $1352.99 that Crciual wants for it.Those ~$1K prices at Crucial (what's so sacred about them anyway?) are for ECC DIMMs. OWC (for example) sells non-ECC 2GB modules for $400.

[Blackheart]

Have you ever seen DDR 2GB DIMMs? Moving to DDR2 is the reason PMs can now support 16GB.

Oh Really?... Newegg must have these misnamed then eh?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820144208

[sjk]

Oh Really?... Newegg must have these misnamed then eh?Interesting. But do older PowerMac G5s support ECC memory?

[shamino]

You can get 16 GB of RAM with the old models too; just use 2 GB sticks.
Do you know for certain that this works?

Crucial's memory selector doesn't list 2G modules for the PowerMac G5/dual-2.7. Their 2G part number is for a pair of 1G DIMMs.

Don't assume that 2G DIMMs will work, simply because they may physically fit in the slots.

[shamino]

Those ~$1K prices at Crucial (what's so sacred about them anyway?) are for ECC DIMMs. OWC (for example) sells non-ECC 2GB modules for $400.
As for what's so special - they have a very very good reputation for quality. They test every single part shipped, have lifetime warrantees, and are usually very good when warrantee replacement is necessary.

But you're right - they do not sell any non-ECC 2G modules right now, so you can only buy the insanely expensive variety right now. But I'm sure this will change soon. They're usually pretty good at selling what people want to buy.

[shamino]

Interesting. But do older PowerMac G5s support ECC memory?
No. Before these models, you'd need an Xserve to get ECC memory. (This is one of the big reasons VA Tech upgraded from PowerMacs to Xserves).

[sjk]

Don't assume that 2G DIMMs will work, simply because they may physically fit in the slots.Blackheart hasn't shown evidence that they will. Also, as I suspected:
Before these models, you'd need an Xserve to get ECC memory. (This is one of the big reasons VA Tech upgraded from PowerMacs to Xserves).
Re: Crucial. My "why sacred?" question was meant to be cynically rhetorical, but thanks for answering anyway. :)
With few exceptions, I wouldn't recommend buying memory from any vendor without a lifetime warranty and good replacement policy.

[Blackheart]

Blackheart hasn't shown evidence that they will.

Hey! You guys want to throw in the dough and I'll gladly order them and give them a shot! ;)

As far as arguing about it, I couldn't care less.

[sjk]

Arguing? I thought it was a discussion to provide accurate information in case anyone was interested.

[Blackheart]

Arguing? I thought it was a discussion to provide accurate information in case anyone was interested.

You insinuated that the burden was on me to provide evidence of compatibility. My mistake if that was not your intention, but that was surely my perception.

[CanadaRAM]

My favorite is the comparison of RAM Yeah, because they added more slots... :rolleyes: No, it's because Apple now sells 2 GB sticks. You can get 16 GB of RAM with the old models too; just use 2 GB sticks.
For PowerMacs G5 <Oct 2005 , the DDR PC3200 must be non-ECC non-stacked, non-registered RAM. Nothing I have seen at OWC, Crucial or otherwise meets the spec. All of the OWC 2 Gb I see are 2 Gb kits ( 2 x 1 Gb DIMMs).

Then, even if you could find any, the other minor issue is whether the memory controller in the PowerMac can address the number and density of the chips. If the controller can't count that high, it doesn't matter how big a module you put in.

At any rate, the current score inthe 2 Gb RAM sweepstakes is

DDR PC3200 - 0 DDR2-533 - 1

Thanks
Trevor
CanadaRAM.com

[shamino]

For PowerMacs G5 <Oct 2005 , the DDR PC3200 must be non-ECC non-stacked, non-registered RAM. Nothing I have seen at OWC, Crucial or otherwise meets the spec. All of the OWC 2 Gb I see are 2 Gb kits ( 2 x 1 Gb DIMMs).
You must've missed this one (http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Other%20World%20Computing/4200DDR2M2GB/). Now $500 (up $100 from a few days ago.)

It is listed as only for use with the new PowerMac and iMac, not for any older G5 system.

As for whether it will work in an older G5 system or not, I don't know. Until someone actually tests it out, I would assume it to be incompatible. Apple frequently documents a maximum capacity that is less than reality (usually because larger DIMMS didn't exist at the time of the computer's release), but this isn't the case with every model sold.

I assume that if they are compatible, the major RAM vendors will test it out and update the listings on their web pages.

[sjk]

You insinuated that the burden was on me to provide evidence of compatibility. My mistake if that was not your intention, but that was surely my perception.Based on prior discussion I was implying (not insinuating) that, playing fairly, showing evidence of compatibility was your responsibility. Let's review:

You refuted my "Have you ever seen DDR 2GB DIMMs?" question in post #8 (which I admit was incomplete by omitting "non-ECC") with your "Oh Really? ..." remark and the link to a 2GB ECC DIMM from newegg in post #9. Yet that was insufficient evidence to disprove the key "Moving to DDR2 is the reason PMs can now support 16GB" claim in my post that followup discussion (thanks, shamino and CanadaRAM) indicates is still accurate. And now I've explicitly acknowledged my minor omission.

I'd certainly don't care if I'm wrong about this, especially if it meant I could eventually have more total RAM in my rev. B iMac G5. Time will eventually tell, definitively. Like shamino says:

I assume that if they are compatible, the major RAM vendors will test it out and update the listings on their web pages.

It's similar to when I bought an eMac early last year and Apple claimed it could only support a maximum 1GB. But I ordered two, 1GB DIMMs when compatibility was confirmed by a third party vendor soon after I'd called to explicitly ask them about it.

Anyway, I'm growing more doubtful that 2GB DIMMs of any variety will be fully supported (i.e. not capped at 1GB by the memory controller) in older PBs and iMacs since I haven't seen any evidence of it yet, from anyone.

[homerjward]

i'm an idiot.

[Sun Baked]

For PowerMacs G5 <Oct 2005 , the DDR PC3200 must be non-ECC non-stacked, non-registered RAM. Nothing I have seen at OWC, Crucial or otherwise meets the spec. All of the OWC 2 Gb I see are 2 Gb kits ( 2 x 1 Gb DIMMs).

Then, even if you could find any, the other minor issue is whether the memory controller in the PowerMac can address the number and density of the chips. If the controller can't count that high, it doesn't matter how big a module you put in.

At any rate, the current score inthe 2 Gb RAM sweepstakes is

DDR PC3200 - 0 DDR2-533 - 1

Thanks
Trevor
CanadaRAM.comYes, it should feasibly work in the old PowerMac G5 with the U3H Memory Controller -- since the XServe used the same memory controller -- yet Apple is selling machines with 2GB DDR400 ECC DIMMs in the fully loaded 8/16 GB configurations.

Problem was a lot of the 2GB DIMMs were the ECC versions.

Edit: Though Apple has yet to add the specs for the 2GB DIMMs to the developer docs for the recent XServe update -- basically haven't even revised the docs for the last XServe configuration updates.