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View Full Version : are 1.67 mhz comparable to intel's topspeeds?


cyberone
Oct 24, 2005, 08:49 AM
hi - tks to this forums and many wise minds in here I want to switch.

but still the big question looms, even though the PBs just have been upjuiced:

are the current 1.67 mhz processors too slow compared with intel's topline?

are there any side-by-side comparisons available?

I want to jump now, even though the switch to intel is ahead. but does one want to buy obsolete technology?

many thanks for any input -

iGary
Oct 24, 2005, 08:52 AM
hi - tks to this forums and many wise minds in here I want to switch.

but still the big question looms, even though the PBs just have been upjuiced:

are the current 1.67 mhz processors too slow compared with intel's topline?

are there any side-by-side comparisons available?

I want to jump now, even though the switch to intel is ahead. but does one want to buy obsolete technology?

many thanks for any input -

Tell us what you plan to use the computer for. ;)

cyberone
Oct 24, 2005, 09:01 AM
mostly photoshop (CS2) and other photo editing stuff.

but mainly I'm concerned if the 1.67 mhz processor will work at ease with software being launched in two, three, four years.

am working since 5 yrs with a self built PC - works still not too bad even with newest photo editing software. and: older PC-softwares are amazingly compatible with newer OS-versions.

therefore: are 1.67 mhz really the top of the line - or are they simply the threshold were this processor-technology can't move any further?

anyone expecting a quantum leap from mac's move to intel?

sorry if I seem naive ...

Dont Hurt Me
Oct 24, 2005, 09:08 AM
Threshhold is the answer, Its no secret Motoscale has been stuck for years and Apple with them. Its why Apple had to get someone to make a G5 and now going Intel. Apple is about to start a transition . so sick of transitions with these guys they should have gone Intel 10 years ago. G4 will do everything you want at the moment , 2 or 3 years down the road??? I would wait for the Intel Powerbook if you are looking a couple of years down the road. In chip vs chip there isnt a PPC chip that can hang one on one with Intel or AMD.

wordmunger
Oct 24, 2005, 09:09 AM
They are not as good as the equivalent Intel technology. That said, most Intel laptops suck -- too many gizmos and gadgets, not enough attention to design. If you can hold out another 6 months or so (and possibly as few as 3), you will be rewarded with portable Macs with top of the line CPUs.

nylon
Oct 24, 2005, 09:10 AM
hi - tks to this forums and many wise minds in here I want to switch.

but still the big question looms, even though the PBs just have been upjuiced:

are the current 1.67 mhz processors too slow compared with intel's topline?

are there any side-by-side comparisons available?

I want to jump now, even though the switch to intel is ahead. but does one want to buy obsolete technology?

many thanks for any input -

The new powerbooks are not comparable to the current Intel Centrino machines on the market in terms of raw power. If you are not in a hurry I suggest you wait. If your computing tasks are not processor intensive then you will be satisfied with the current powerbooks.(i.e. Surfing the web, word processing, email etc.) You can still do more processor intensive tasks such as photo/video editing but it get a little tedious after a while. The benefits of jumping to OSX are enormous but that is irrespective of the machine you choose. I don't believe the current powerbooks are competitive and advise you to save your money and pimp out your Intel powerbook when it comes out. Others will have a different view and will try and avoid the power issue to attempt to justify their purchase. That's fine also but will not be a balanced viewpoint.

Chundles
Oct 24, 2005, 09:15 AM
A 1.67 mhz processor will be super slow compared with Intel's current line up. However the 1.67 GHz processor will be plenty fast for Photoshop etc.

I suppose however that if you were doing some really serious heavy lifting in Photoshop then the only real solution is a PowerMac.

The PowerBook however is a wonderful machine, fast, light, plenty of ability. You will get some good use out of Photoshop because Adobe has said it will be quite some time (late 2006) before they have an Intel version of Creative Suite ready. Before then you will have to run PS in emulated form on a new Intel Mac. On a PPC Mac, you'll be fine and when the new Photoshop comes out it should be in universal binary form and will run at full crank on your PPC PowerBook.

Dont Hurt Me
Oct 24, 2005, 09:17 AM
Wasnt this past upgrade the second time apple didnt increase cpu speed on powerbook?

Hattig
Oct 24, 2005, 09:38 AM
I'd guess that a 1.67 GHz G4 is at least as good in standard (non-vector) CPU operations as a 1.4GHz Pentium M. As far as I remember the G4 and PIII were reasonably equivalent when they were both running on similar bus speeds. The Pentium M is a highly tweaked PIII with a much better bus, so that's why I think it will perform significantly better.

However, in terms of vector operations, the G4's Altivec will cream the Pentium M's SSE/SSE2. Photoshop utilises a lot of Altivec code, as does Mac OS X.

In addition, a lot of Mac OS X is offloaded - for example the interface is offloaded to the graphics chip, and CoreImage and CoreVideo are recent additions to the operating system that offload a lot of image processing and video operations onto the video chip as well.

And lastly, Mac OS X won't have issues with virus checkers and spyware checkers slowing down the system.

These will make a Mac OS X based system running on a G4 feel faster (as long as you get enough memory) than what the bare performance of the G4 would indicate.

Chundles
Oct 24, 2005, 09:51 AM
Wasnt this past upgrade the second time apple didnt increase cpu speed on powerbook?

Nah, the last update in January took speeds up from 1.33/1.5GHz to 1.5/1.67GHz.

Frobozz
Oct 24, 2005, 10:30 AM
I must admit that I am waiting for an Intel PB, but I already have a 1.67 GHz PowerBook at work ... so here are my impressions.

I am using the recently-1-generation-old PB 15" 1.67 GHz. My frame of comparision is a Quicksilver Dual 1 GHz G4. I can safely say that the PB is faster for basically everything. Interface responsiveness is fast and efficient. It multitasks well (far better than an Wintel box-- believe me.) I use Illustrator CS and Photoshop CS every day, along with a myriad of other apps like MS Office, BBEdit, Flash 8, etc. I have no problem with the speed.

My recommendation is to get the PB now if you need one now. An Intel PB won't be a massive jump in performance from what is out now. It will be faster, but every new generation is. A laptop is a laptop, so it will never be as fast as a desktop-- but if portability is what you need, you won't be disapointed with the speed or powerful features of the PowerBook.

roland.g
Oct 24, 2005, 10:44 AM
I am dying to upgrade my 1st generation g4 tower: 450mhz 'sawtooth' that will be 6 years old in February. That said I am running photoshop cs on it with 3 or 4 200mb photoshop files open, each containing about 50-75 layers. It isn't the fastest, and I do have to wait on the screen to redraw on changes sometimes (about a sec), but I only have 768mb RAM, not just one file that size open, all my undo's available, and it's 6, I repeat almost 6 years old. Not to mention I have mail, safari, itunes, iphoto, word, and text all running as well. And this thing has AGP graphics, which is like a joke. It can't even handle quartz extreme on that graphics card. However, Panther runs great and c'mon it's 6 years old man. If that doesn't tell you a little something about longevity, then I don't know what does.

cyberone
Oct 24, 2005, 10:50 AM
one encouraging impression so far to go and buy that G4 ...

other thoughts for a G4 are: this probably last revision must have ironed out most if not all hardware problems that occured in all the previous version ... sounds like a big plus to me - or: rev. A, B and so on problems are overstated?

that G4 really looks like a timeless piece of beauty.

wonder how they would improve the design of a successor line of the PBs ...

black? I mean, the design cant be more minimalistic ... probably they add a few bells and whistles like buttons or so ...

Frobozz
Oct 24, 2005, 11:11 AM
one encouraging impression so far to go and buy that G4 ...

other thoughts for a G4 are: this probably last revision must have ironed out most if not all hardware problems that occured in all the previous version ... sounds like a big plus to me - or: rev. A, B and so on problems are overstated?

that G4 really looks like a timeless piece of beauty.


Yeah the other really, really important factor to consider is that this is the last PowerPC PowerBook to come out. It looks great and it works great. No real bugs to speak of. The price point is low at ~$2k US.

For the Intel PB's, you will certainly have to pay for updates to your favorite apps to get dual binary support. At least for PS and Illustrator... anyone that thinks they'll get a freebie update is delusional.

So you will probably have to pay for upgrades and/or run some apps under Rosetta on an Intel PB. This means you'll have to have a ~25% raw speed increase on the Intel PB to break even on older / unupgraded apps. On top of that, for user tasks you will need to see a ~20% increase for a perceptible difference! So you can see how, in a legacy PowerPC scenario, you will have some speed concerns with an Intel PB.

So I have to reiterate my suggestion to get a PowerPC PowerBook if you think you fall into this camp. If you don't think you will, then it's no big deal and maybe you can wait? I certainly disagree with other users who say the current PB's are not up to the task of Photoshop unless your whole day revolves around wanting a Desktop in a laptop form factor.

Zoowatch
Oct 24, 2005, 11:41 AM
if you're getting Apple portables and speed is rather important for you...

then i strongly advice u to wait for an Intel powerbook

with 1.67, everything can be done at reasonable speed
but i wouldnt say that's fast

if u can wait another 1/2 year or so... u should really wait

otherwise... get iMac or PowerMac instead

sandmann41
Oct 24, 2005, 11:59 PM
I have a Sager notebook with a 2ghz pentium m and a new 15" powerbook.
If there is a performance differance between the 2 I don't notice it.
My powerbook is plenty fast enough for everything I do at least (photo editing and basic computing).

CmdrLaForge
Oct 25, 2005, 02:31 AM
Do you guys think that it is possible to run Motion on the new PBs??

Cheers
LaForge

anthonys
Oct 25, 2005, 02:45 AM
I used to use a 1.25GHz Powerbook with 1GB RAM and 5400rpm HD for Photoshop, Illustration, InDesign in a professional design studio. It was fine for most things, but did choke a bit when I had to do a 2 metre high poster!

I need another portable now (sold the Powerbook and got a rev A iMac 20" when they first came out, which was noticeably quicker) so am thinking of going back to G4. Based on my past experience I have no hesitation the Powerbook will suit my needs, but whether it still will in a few years - who knows? If it doesn't I'll just sell it and upgrade though. The price of the Powerbook now is much more reasonable, especially when you use the education discount. My 1.25GHz was almost twice as much as the new 1.67 15" 2 years ago.

Silencio
Oct 25, 2005, 03:15 AM
I have a Sager notebook with a 2ghz pentium m and a new 15" powerbook.
If there is a performance differance between the 2 I don't notice it.
My powerbook is plenty fast enough for everything I do at least (photo editing and basic computing).

The main difference being the Sager weighs over twice as much as the Powerbook! :p

generik
Oct 25, 2005, 03:22 AM
Is it true that this is really the last PPC revision?

I really doubt Apple would have sunk $ to modify the board with a new chipset and new memory bus for a final model..

I do suspect that subsequent revisions will come out soon after Christmas or so.. probably January (as well this year) with speed bumps up to 2Ghz.

Just my guess, don't take my word for it, but it is very very plausible.

Silencio
Oct 25, 2005, 03:22 AM
I am dying to upgrade my 1st generation g4 tower: 450mhz 'sawtooth' that will be 6 years old in February. That said I am running photoshop cs on it with 3 or 4 200mb photoshop files open, each containing about 50-75 layers. It isn't the fastest, and I do have to wait on the screen to redraw on changes sometimes (about a sec), but I only have 768mb RAM, not just one file that size open, all my undo's available, and it's 6, I repeat almost 6 years old. Not to mention I have mail, safari, itunes, iphoto, word, and text all running as well. And this thing has AGP graphics, which is like a joke. It can't even handle quartz extreme on that graphics card. However, Panther runs great and c'mon it's 6 years old man. If that doesn't tell you a little something about longevity, then I don't know what does.

Your comments are completely off the subject of the thread, but:

Go get yourself some more RAM, ASAP. A couple of 512MB PC100/133 DIMMs will help you out quite a bit, even on a machine that old. You can actually stick up to 2GB of RAM in there; Photoshop can sure use it with all those layers.

If you're still running off the stock 5400RPM hard drive, then a modern 7200RPM hard drive will give your system an extra kick in the pants, plus some much needed extra storage space. I usually get 80-120GB internal drives for those types of systems, as the ATA chipset only supports 128GB devices unless you resort to some driver trickery.

If you get more RAM and a faster hard drive, I would not sweat the fact that your video card won't do Quartz Extreme. Maybe if you found a cheap GeForce 4MX, Radeon 8500 or 9000 somewhere... but, again, that should be a distant fourth (behind RAM, faster boot drive, and a CPU upgrade) on your shopping list.

generik
Oct 25, 2005, 03:26 AM
Have you ever considered a Mac Mini?

It is seriously *a lot* of computer for very little price.

sandmann41
Oct 25, 2005, 03:29 AM
The main difference being the Sager weighs over twice as much as the Powerbook! :p

precisely why it hasn't been used much since buying the powerbook :)

Skareb
Oct 25, 2005, 04:18 AM
are the current 1.67 mhz processors too slow compared with intel's topline?
Short answer: YES

Longer, though still short answer: The Mobile Athon64's are probably the best mobile chiops on the market at the moment, followed Very Very closley by the Pentium M.

G4 doesn't really feature on the radar. And is crippled by it's 167MHz FSB

Jordan

Skareb
Oct 25, 2005, 04:19 AM
I am dying to upgrade my 1st generation g4 tower

I suggest replacement, better $ for $ value in it.

generik
Oct 25, 2005, 04:23 AM
I really suggest a Mini.. it will completely blow your Sawtooth away.. and it is a cheapie to tide you over to the Intel transition.

matticus008
Oct 25, 2005, 04:31 AM
Do you guys think that it is possible to run Motion on the new PBs??

Cheers
LaForge

It will run, but I wouldn't recommend it, even with 2GB of RAM. The hard drive is slow and the CPU doesn't help things much. Even with the 7200RPM drives, you're still asking for some pretty serious frustration. That said, a PowerBook is good to touch up or make some minor changes to a project while you're on the road. It's just not very productive for actual daily use. A $2000 PowerMac would be far more capable than a 15" PB.

If you're the patient and calm type, it's doable, especially if you need a portable and also need Motion and can't afford two computers :).

CmdrLaForge
Oct 26, 2005, 05:58 AM
It will run, but I wouldn't recommend it, even with 2GB of RAM. The hard drive is slow and the CPU doesn't help things much. Even with the 7200RPM drives, you're still asking for some pretty serious frustration. That said, a PowerBook is good to touch up or make some minor changes to a project while you're on the road. It's just not very productive for actual daily use. A $2000 PowerMac would be far more capable than a 15" PB.

If you're the patient and calm type, it's doable, especially if you need a portable and also need Motion and can't afford two computers :).

That doesn't sound to good. Do you think an iMac would be better?

matticus008
Oct 26, 2005, 06:09 AM
That doesn't sound to good. Do you think an iMac would be better?
Definitely. If you only need very occasional portability (and no air travel ;)) or none at all, an iMac would offer much greater performance and value, because it can move more data through the system bus, has a faster CPU (I'm not sure if Motion is G4-optimized, but I know that it is G5 optimized and is meant to be run on a G5), and the hard drive is more on par with what you'd need in terms of capacity.

It's so hard not to be able to recommend a PowerBook, since they're my favorite, but performance wise for the price, an iMac offers a lot more for Motion and the rest of the Final Cut Studio. Just remember, the more RAM, the better. You'll need 2GB at least.

Skareb
Oct 26, 2005, 06:12 AM
Apple needs to stop flogging the dead horse in respect to the G4 Processor. Its old, it's slow and It's not getting any Faster no matter what spin you put on it.

Jordan

wide
Oct 26, 2005, 06:22 AM
They are not as good as the equivalent Intel technology. That said, most Intel laptops suck -- too many gizmos and gadgets, not enough attention to design. If you can hold out another 6 months or so (and possibly as few as 3), you will be rewarded with portable Macs with top of the line CPUs.

i think it's going to be longer than that. june '06 is my estimate.

GroundLoop
Oct 26, 2005, 06:31 AM
Apple needs to stop flogging the dead horse in respect to the G4 Processor. Its old, it's slow and It's not getting any Faster no matter what spin you put on it.

Jordan

Agreed. Luckily, we will not have to worry about this too much longer. My non-insider prediction is that we will get more details about Intel portables at MWSF and they will arrive in stores in the March/April timeframe.

Apple has been working with the Yonah processors and the new Intel chipset for a few months now, but I do not think that they will be ready when the processor is actually available to the public (January 2006).

Happier times are coming.

Hickman