PDA

View Full Version : Improving the Powerbook


will
Dec 14, 2002, 09:24 AM
The powerbook is already a very nice laptop, but there's always room for improvement. In this post I look at how Apple might change the powerbook in its next update.

CPU
More processor power is always good, however as there are already numerous threads on this subject, there seems little point in bringing them all up again. As fast as possible (without setting fire to my lap or eating all the battery). Perhaps Apple should have different clock speeds for battery/mains use?

Screen
The powerbook screen is nice, but it could have a better viewing angle. As for a higher resolution, I'm not sure. I wouldn't want the screen to be physically any larger, so it would be a matter of squeezing more pixels into the same space, how's about upping the resolution to 1400x1024?

Design and Build
This is one of the most important aspects of the powerbook. While the form factor is nice, it definitely needs to be tougher, after all laptops are bound to get a few knocks and bumps. The paintwork is far too fragile, I'd do away with the painted exterior totally. I expect Apple will do some sort of redesign soon as it is several years since the Ti was introduced.

Graphics
The new powerbook already has the fastest mobile graphics card there is, Apple should just make sure they keep up with developments.

Optical Drive
The powerbook already has DVD burning, but it could be a bit faster, the same applies to CD burning. Otherwise I can't see much room for improvement here, but whatever they do it should stay slot loading.

Ethernet and Modem
The powerbook already has gigabit ethernet, I can't see any need for improvement here. The modem can't really be improved, Apple should just be sure to continue to include one.

Battery Life
Battery life is already pretty impressive, but you can always use more. With improvements in motherboards and integration of airport there ought to be a bit more space for a bigger battery, at present 5 hours is the claimed life (which you can just about get if you avoid spinning any discs), it would be nice to push that nearer to 8.

Camera
A basic integrated stills/video camera would be a great addition IMHO. Video conferencing and chat are going to increase in future. Integrating this with iChat would make sense.

Hard Drive
Bigger is obviously better, but faster is important too. from the evidence I've seen it was a mistake for Apple to drop the faster RPM drives from the new models. To conserve battery life couldn't they have a drive the spins at a lower speed when on battery, reverting to full speed when on the mains?

Wireless
Apple should integrate bluetooth and airport onto the motherboard and increase the airport range of the powerbook. Integrating airport into the motherboard ought to save space and money. With bluetooth onboard it should be possible to use the Internet via your mobile, something that with the availability of GPRS is a reasonable proposition.

Ports
When firewire2 arrives it would obviously good to have this integrated, but I also think Apple should include USB2. Perhaps we could also have at least one USB port on the side of the machine where it's easier to access (like the iBook). A line out would be nice.

keyboard
The keyboard could be better, it could take up a greater width of the laptop.

RAM
Apple should be more generous with RAM, I'd expect 512 MB on the low end model these days, and 1 GB on the high end, with support for up to 2 GB of RAM.

Price
It's no good having a fantastic laptop if no one can afford it. Apple have moved in the right direction recently, but I'd like to see the low end model come down below $2000/£1400.

vitruvius
Dec 14, 2002, 09:40 AM
also would be nice a better speakers :)

Raiden
Dec 14, 2002, 09:55 AM
I agree about the videoconfrencing. When it comes to chatting, it might be the wave of the future. Apple should first include it as an add-on.

Computer_Phreak
Dec 14, 2002, 10:14 AM
well that pretty much sums up what id like to see in the powerbook as well.

BenderBot1138
Dec 14, 2002, 10:20 AM
... and an autographed picture of Steve Jobs in each one...

:cool:

JSRockit
Dec 14, 2002, 10:32 AM
I do not want a camera built into my PowerBook...that is wack. Faster HD and Optical Drive is my biggest concern... then durability. I just hope that durability doesn't come at a price...weight! The number one pro of the TiBook is that it is 5.4 lbs with a 15" screen.

idkew
Dec 14, 2002, 10:55 AM
apple already has a higher capacity battery, i can't remember the name of it, but it is in the iPod. Much better than the current lithium ion batteries they use.

so- how about apple put those in the 'books. i would be willing to pay $50-$100 more for a battery that lasted TWICE as long. I bought an extra for ~$130 more, so i would be saving money in the long run.

Moxiemike
Dec 14, 2002, 10:55 AM
Originally posted by JSRockit
I do not want a camera built into my PowerBook...that is wack. Faster HD and Optical Drive is my biggest concern... then durability. I just hope that durability doesn't come at a price...weight! The number one pro of the TiBook is that it is 5.4 lbs with a 15" screen.

Exactly. And i think that maybe, just maybe, if they could figure out how to cheaply anodized the tibook--- yum.

Give it the same appearance as the shiny logo on the iMac. Then maybe... just maybe....take some lucite or whatever that area of the iBook is made from and use it for the inside of the laptop---around the keyboard and the trackpad.

I've noticed two things about my ti (rev.b 667):

The trackpad sticks a bit. Especially if you're working on a couch or bed. Which NEVER happened with my lombard.

And the second thing is that, when this chick i know needed to update her blog from my machine at a net café---well----her bracelet made a couple minor surface scratches next to the track pad.

So if they could figue out a way to eliminate the paint on the outside, and eliminate the potential for nasty scratches from watches and bracelets and whatnot.

That would be killer. mid range: 1.0ghz, 40gb 5400rpm drive, same screem (the new ones are SO bright!), 64mb vram, 256 ram standard....combo.... $2299. HOT!

Then how about a low-end: 933, 30gb 4200rpm drive, 32mb vram, 256 ram, combo. $1999

High end: 1.25ghz. 60gb 5400 rpm drive, 512ram 64mb vram. airport built in. superdrive. $2999

And what if, just what if, Apple offered a "traveler's package" with the 1.25ghz, with a 1gb of ram, 60gb 5400 drive, 64mb vram, faster superdrive, lock and key thing, a good case (zero halliburton or brenthaven.... yea) web cam, etc etc etc... for like, $3399..

Rower_CPU
Dec 14, 2002, 12:11 PM
Well...

Hard drive
I'll be testing the HD speed on my new one coming in a few days. I'll compare it to the 40GNX that I put in my rev a 400. Apple claims that higher RPM is not necessary for fast access in the new drives. We'll see...

Wireless
From what I've read, the poor wifi reception is due to the fact that titanium is a poor receptor/transmitter. Other than changing the metal they use in the body, there's not much they can do.

Ports
A port on the side would require a complete redesign of the motherboard, and would be very difficult to do, engineering-wise. There's a reason they keep the ports all along one side.

Keyboard
If you make it larger, you won't have room for the speakers in their current location. What would you do? Move them to the palmrest area?

RAM
Apple can't add more slots for RAM expansion, so they are stuck at 2, therefore they have to wait for 1GB SO-DIMMs to be released before they can support over 1GB.

alex_ant
Dec 14, 2002, 12:36 PM
Screen

I think a 1400x1024 screen would be fantastic if Apple allowed changing the sizes of the system fonts in OS X. Because there will invariably be people who bitch about how that makes things look too small, even when basically every PC laptop with a similarly sized screen is even higher-res than that.

Design and Build

I say get rid of the titanium enclosure entirely and move to anodized magnesium in various colors. (Silver & black?) Titanium is too flimsy when it's stamped as thin as it is, and you can't not paint it because it absorbs fingerprints. (I don't understand why they don't give it a clear coat.) Whatever they do, I hope they don't continue to paint it. I do hope they stick to using some kind of metal, though, as that kind of Apple-trademark transparent plastic seems a bit passé.

Camera

I'm not sure about this. I guess I would be in favor of it if it could be integrated somewhere where it wouldn't look too ugly and if it wouldn't add a lot of cost. I don't know where they'd put it with the current design.

Ports
I don't want the PowerBook to have USB2 because I think that would hurt Firewire. Peripheral companies would rather make USB2 things because it's cheaper and faster (on paper). If every Mac included USB2, these companies wouldn't have as much reason to include Firewire ports on their products.

keyboard
If the keyboard gets widened, the speakers would have to be relocated or shrunken. I think the keyboard and speakers are fine as they are. Whatever Apple does, I hope they don't attempt that ridiculous "laptop subwoofer" ****e. Audio fidelity from the built-in speakers shouldn't be a priority in a laptop. I don't care if they sound like ass as long as I have a line out.

wrylachlan
Dec 14, 2002, 12:36 PM
Originally posted by Rower_CPU


Wireless
From what I've read, the poor wifi reception is due to the fact that titanium is a poor receptor/transmitter. Other than changing the metal they use in the body, there's not much they can do.



If titanium blocks the signal, why not embed an antenna in the OUTSIDE of the case? Maybe I'm missing the point, but doesn't that seem like the ridiculously obvious thing to do?

wrylachlan
Dec 14, 2002, 12:41 PM
Originally posted by alex_ant
Camera

I'm not sure about this. I guess I would be in favor of it if it could be integrated somewhere where it wouldn't look too ugly and if it wouldn't add a lot of cost. I don't know where they'd put it with the current design.


Have you seen the tiny camera in the hinge of the Sony Clie PDA? That thing could probably fit in the bezel above the screen. And whether you personally would use a video chat system or not, apple needs to make cameras standard in order to create third party interest. Not that that has historically been a big drive of theirs but...

alex_ant
Dec 14, 2002, 12:41 PM
There already is an antenna peeking out through the sides, but the titanium still blocks some of the signal if the signal isn't in one of the antennas' line of sight. (As I understand it)

Moxiemike
Dec 14, 2002, 12:45 PM
Originally posted by wrylachlan


If titanium blocks the signal, why not embed an antenna in the OUTSIDE of the case? Maybe I'm missing the point, but doesn't that seem like the ridiculously obvious thing to do?

A cool thing would be a titanium case wrapped in airport reception atennas made to glow in a variety of colors-- pink, green, purple, red, blue, etc.

Wouldn't it be great??

Geez. I've reallly swallowed some sarcasm pills.....

JSRockit
Dec 14, 2002, 12:55 PM
iBook material, TiBook demensions. This would be way too heavy correct?

Moxiemike
Dec 14, 2002, 12:58 PM
Originally posted by JSRockit
iBook material, TiBook demensions. This would be way too heavy correct?

you seem to have sorely missed the point of that post dude.

It would all be titanium, save for the plate around the keyboard and trackpad. That stuff doesn't scratch anywhere near as easily as titanium

Which is prolly only a few ounces anyway, and would stack up, weight wise, pretty well against the titanium.

The rest would be anodized titanium. Maybe a VERY light silver. ya know?????

word.

bousozoku
Dec 14, 2002, 01:03 PM
Originally posted by Moxiemike


A cool thing would be a titanium case wrapped in airport reception atennas made to glow in a variety of colors-- pink, green, purple, red, blue, etc.

Wouldn't it be great??

Geez. I've reallly swallowed some sarcasm pills.....

Maybe that's not so far off. A colourless urethane cover with a grid of antennae could be used both to protect the PB and to give it much great reception.

As for the colours...only if they flash like the PC lights do. :D

alex_ant
Dec 14, 2002, 01:10 PM
Yes, that reminds me. The new PowerBook needs lights. Lots and lots of lights. We need a power light, and a HD access light. Then we need lights that come on when we press certain buttons, like a "volume up" light for when we hit "volume up." What the hell, why not even throw in a Turbo light. And an LED gigaflops meter. Mouse movement & button press light, trackpad clicker light, etc. Last but not least, we need LED status lights that show us the status of all our LEDs, and then an extra LED to show us the status of our LED status lights. Oh, and we also need a built-in "love sensor" where we press our thumb somewhere onto the machine and an LED light scale measures our love intensity. And so on. I'm sure everyone will agree that Apple is sorely falling behind in the lights area. We need to catch up to Gateway.

Rower_CPU
Dec 14, 2002, 01:20 PM
You forgot one, alex_ant...the seizure indicator light!

Moxiemike
Dec 14, 2002, 03:43 PM
Originally posted by alex_ant
Yes, that reminds me. The new PowerBook needs lights. Lots and lots of lights. We need a power light, and a HD access light. Then we need lights that come on when we press certain buttons, like a "volume up" light for when we hit "volume up." What the hell, why not even throw in a Turbo light. And an LED gigaflops meter. Mouse movement & button press light, trackpad clicker light, etc. Last but not least, we need LED status lights that show us the status of all our LEDs, and then an extra LED to show us the status of our LED status lights. Oh, and we also need a built-in "love sensor" where we press our thumb somewhere onto the machine and an LED light scale measures our love intensity. And so on. I'm sure everyone will agree that Apple is sorely falling behind in the lights area. We need to catch up to Gateway.

a mood powerbook! word!

cubist
Dec 14, 2002, 04:23 PM
... very faint blue cast on brilliantly shiny stainless steel with a clear coat. Innards and plastic parts all colored the same pale cobalt blue color. Sure steel is heavier than titanium, but in this thickness it won't make much difference, and the durability will be improved. Make the hinges out of metal (probably aluminum).

shadowfax
Dec 14, 2002, 04:35 PM
they really need to just put an ambient light under the keyboard. think LCD backlight, but MUCH dimmer so it uses ~1-2 watts. that would be groovy, and help people in the dark. and don't anyone post about how the USB flylight thing solves this, i hate that thing.

they could make it like ambient neon blue or something, maybe with a controller to change it at your whim, yeah

lol :cool: ;)

alex_ant
Dec 14, 2002, 07:46 PM
Originally posted by Shadowfax
they really need to just put an ambient light under the keyboard. think LCD backlight, but MUCH dimmer so it uses ~1-2 watts. that would be groovy, and help people in the dark. and don't anyone post about how the USB flylight thing solves this, i hate that thing.

they could make it like ambient neon blue or something, maybe with a controller to change it at your whim, yeah

lol :cool: ;)
That's a very good idea actually... I always wished the keyboard had something like the Timex Indiglo watches do. A light like that uses very little power. Or maybe they could make the white paint on the keys glow in the dark. I would be all for it as long as they could keep it from looking all retarded and tacky like a PC with a retrofitted neon light window or something.

Moxiemike
Dec 14, 2002, 07:49 PM
Originally posted by alex_ant

That's a very good idea actually... I always wished the keyboard had something like the Timex Indiglo watches do. A light like that uses very little power. Or maybe they could make the white paint on the keys glow in the dark. I would be all for it as long as they could keep it from looking all retarded and tacky like a PC with a retrofitted neon light window or something.

I'm thinking neon on the bottom, lowered. with hydrualics.

word.

alex_ant
Dec 14, 2002, 07:58 PM
As long as the shocks below the screen can bounce.

Moxiemike
Dec 14, 2002, 08:05 PM
Originally posted by alex_ant
As long as the shocks below the screen can bounce.

and of course, a scented apple logo hanging from the rearvie..... what?

god. ive lost it today

shadowfax
Dec 14, 2002, 11:23 PM
Originally posted by Moxiemike


and of course, a scented apple logo hanging from the rearvie..... what?

god. ive lost it today

YES! it must be hippy painted! score! that is so awesome. they do an ad campaign, and it's like, "the lurking side of every true mac user--let your excessive closet-liberalism out of the bag! if your computer isn't psychedelic, what does that say about you?"

the only problem is, my Ti IS pretty darn psychedelic, and that just isn't right. i've lost it too.

will
Jan 4, 2003, 05:14 AM
After all the recent 970 discussion I have a feeling Apple will wait for the new processor before updating the design of the PB. A more robust PB with a 970 and longer battery life would be fantastic.

JSRockit
Jan 4, 2003, 07:41 AM
Originally posted by will
After all the recent 970 discussion I have a feeling Apple will wait for the new processor before updating the design of the PB. A more robust PB with a 970 and longer battery life would be fantastic.

I doubt it...the PowerMac and Xserve would get the 970 first i would imagine. Hopefully, I'm wrong and you are right though.

will
Jan 4, 2003, 12:04 PM
I wasn't saying the PowerBook would get the 970 first, I was saying I expected Apple to wait for the 970 on the PowerBook before redesigning it. I'm sure they'll introduce it on the PM and XServer first as you suggest.

FelixDerKater
Jan 4, 2003, 01:07 PM
If you're paying top-of-the-line prices, you need the higest quality components.

128MB graphics
high-speed hard drive
faster optical drives
higher resolution screen
built-in bluetooth (not many peripherals use it now, so Apple might be able to do to it what it did to USB)
802.11g airport built-in on all models
two-button trackpad :eek: :D
USB 2 ports
higher-quality paint

Just4IBMnApple
Jan 4, 2003, 01:29 PM
Originally posted by will

Graphics
The new powerbook already has the fastest mobile graphics card there is, Apple should just make sure they keep up with developments.
.

Ur joking right? I use an IBM Thinkpad A31p with a 64MB ATI Mobility FireGL 7800 And trust me thats what the powerbook needs!!

And about those complaining about the case interfering with the wireless range why is it that i use a NOKIA 8910 which is made outta titanium too and it includes Bluetooth :) And GPRS and HCSCD And all work well.... So it's High time Apple gets it into the powerbook so I could network both my lappies one IBM Thinkpad and a Powerbook next to it (Drooooooooooll...)

Sherman
Jan 4, 2003, 01:38 PM
There are much better video cards out there for laptops. There's a GeForce 4 'Go' 64MB. Beat the crap out of an old 9000.

I wonder if the iBooks will finally get a G4 like the iMac did. It's high time.

Huked on Fonick
Jan 4, 2003, 01:49 PM
Originally posted by Just4IBMnApple


Ur joking right? I use an IBM Thinkpad A31p with a 64MB ATI Mobility FireGL 7800 And trust me thats what the powerbook needs!!

I think that the 64Mb ATI Mobility Radon 9000 is alittle better than 64MB ATI Mobility FireGL 7800... There is allways the ATI Mobility Radon FireGL 9000.......... but i highly dought apple will use it.

Roger1
Jan 4, 2003, 02:12 PM
I'm thinking neon on the bottom, lowered. with hydrualics.



Don't forget the gold plate chain steering whe- oop, I mean mouse.

And the hood scoop. Definitely.:D

FelixDerKater
Jan 4, 2003, 08:04 PM
Originally posted by Huked on Fonick

There is allways the ATI Mobility Radon FireGL 9000.......... but i highly dought apple will use it.

We're paying an outrageous price for the TiBooks so they should include the best possible components to justify the price...

Tommy!
Jan 4, 2003, 09:52 PM
I might be getting a powerbook for school... they have wireless internet, but people keep saying that they airport antennas in the powerbooks arent very strong... how not strong are we talking about? not strong enough to get reception in a large building?

anyone who can give me reception ranges on newer powerbooks would be greatly appreciated :)

thanks

p.s. please dont encourage me to get an ibook. ibook = G3 and G3 = tommy no likey.

iJon
Jan 4, 2003, 10:54 PM
Originally posted by will
keyboard
The keyboard could be better, it could take up a greater width of the laptop.
[/B]

where would the speakers go.

iJon

daveg5
Jan 4, 2003, 11:21 PM
There was another post like this about a month ago, coming from a musicians prospective:
First for convenience a 2-4 button trackpad with scroll strip. slightly better speakers, more screen resolution, 2 firewire and 2 usb2 both dual channels,wider keyboard, a bluetooth remote to allow control when close of itunes, dvd, quicktime etc. with leds to show status.
The powerbook has the space for seperate roll of mediakeys built in concealed camera and mic, make mine smooth laquer black with a blue lit logo on back.
Tougher multi coated painted surfaces ditch titanium for the lighter stronger berilyum, dont know if i got that right, better antennae and bluetooth.
All ports 24k gold plated and 24k gold trim around the frame. "Detachable and or swivel LCD". Slide in battery, dual or 2GHZ min.
And now my biggest pet peeve, its 2003 and all of Apple cpu sill only have 16 bit stereo sound.
First off the powerbook is the musicians top laptop and should be equipped as such. built in midi ports1 in 2 out trust me theres room (could be covered on side)2- 24/96 in/out jacks analougue and 2 24/96 in/out digital all with dolby digital and a seperate high quality headphone jack[U] oh and 1999-2499-2999 1-2and 4GB memory possible goes up as you spend moresame vid card and processor and 1GB memory in all hard drive space, optical drive and memory exspansion seperate models.
is that a little greedy. if this was out today even at a $1000 more apple could not make enough but they wouldnt sell anything else either
What do you think?

daveg5
Jan 4, 2003, 11:29 PM
i forgot to mentionupgradeable ziff and upgradeable graphics
now i am greedy seems like the pism and lombard will be the only prior powerbooks to be able to outrun the newer ones when sonnet and powerlogic figure out how to use the sahara g3 and newer g4 chips in them

iJon
Jan 4, 2003, 11:30 PM
Originally posted by daveg5
There was another post like this about a month ago, coming from a musicians prospective:
First for convenience a 2-4 button trackpad with scroll strip. slightly better speakers, more screen resolution, 2 firewire and 2 usb2 both dual channels,wider keyboard, a bluetooth remote to allow control when close of itunes, dvd, quicktime etc. with leds to show status.
The powerbook has the space for seperate roll of mediakeys built in concealed camera and mic, make mine smooth laquer black with a blue lit logo on back.
Tougher multi coated painted surfaces ditch titanium for the lighter stronger berilyum, dont know if i got that right, better antennae and bluetooth.
All ports 24k gold plated and 24k gold trim around the frame. "Detachable and or swivel LCD". Slide in battery, dual or 2GHZ min.
And now my biggest pet peeve, its 2003 and all of Apple cpu sill only have 16 bit stereo sound.
First off the powerbook is the musicians top laptop and should be equipped as such. built in midi ports1 in 2 out trust me theres room (could be covered on side)2- 24/96 in/out jacks analougue and 2 24/96 in/out digital all with dolby digital and a seperate high quality headphone jack[U] oh and 1999-2499-2999 1-2and 4GB memory possible goes up as you spend moresame vid card and processor and 1GB memory in all hard drive space, optical drive and memory exspansion seperate models.
is that a little greedy. if this was out today even at a $1000 more apple could not make enough but they wouldnt sell anything else either
What do you think?
thats a hefty amount of stuff you want there. sure tthat would all be good but that sounds a little advance for the time being. 4 buttons on a laptop? for what. just get a mouse or something, if all that stuff you just mentioned was on a laptop that would be one ugly apple laptop. by the way apple does have a built in mic on the tibooks. it in the right speaker. just thought i would let you know that.

iJon

daveg5
Jan 4, 2003, 11:30 PM
os9 bootable for a charge we can use linux and virtual pc with microsoft windows so why not os9 too

shadowfax
Jan 5, 2003, 12:33 AM
Originally posted by daveg5
os9 bootable for a charge we can use linux and virtual pc with microsoft windows so why not os9 too

did i miss something, or didn't i boot into OS 9 just the other day to clean up with disk warrior?

daveg5
Jan 5, 2003, 12:41 AM
Originally posted by Shadowfax


did i miss something, or didn't i boot into OS 9 just the other day to clean up with disk warrior?
I was talking of the announced future OSX only booting that will take place in June according to Apple not current Powerbooks, sorry if I stated wrongly

daveg5
Jan 5, 2003, 01:00 AM
Originally posted by iJon

thats a hefty amount of stuff you want there. sure tthat would all be good but that sounds a little advance for the time being. 4 buttons on a laptop? for what. just get a mouse or something, if all that stuff you just mentioned was on a laptop that would be one ugly apple laptop. by the way apple does have a built in mic on the tibooks. it in the right speaker. just thought i would let you know that.

iJon actually it would not be ugly all the 4 mini jacks and 3 midi ports would be om the right side covered you wouldnt enen see them the camera/mic would be at the top of the lcd barely noticable.
The only thing you would see diff from current powerbooks is the one extra firewire port black paint job gold trim around the keyboard and gold plated ports, it would look exactly the same.a 4 botton or button pad would be grat for a lot of reasons especially if programable and would not necessrilly take away any space as seen on sony's laptops. the small red green yellow LEDvisible on the front of the lap top when closed would actually look quite nice and match OSX interface scheme. this will look exactly like the current powerbooks except color goldplated ports (usally covered) midi and mini audio ports covered on the right side. thats it.
When open you would get a wider keyboard with a very thin gold trim around it a lets say two bottn pad exactly the same size as the current one and a scroll strip(a must). you wont even notice the weel integrated small camera lense near the top of the Lcd.
From a distance or even close the only thing different you would notice would be the scroll strip, right side door outline 1 extra firewire port and 3 tiny LEDs up front and of course Black with a blue lit apple logo in back. it would look no worse then the current Powerbook which I think is sexy, but this would be a tad sexier well implemented right audio door and ports extra firewire ports all ports gold plated tiny leds and a small barely visible camera lens neart the top of the LCD. how does that make it ugly especially if done with apple's understed style.

jaguarx
Jan 5, 2003, 05:45 PM
Multiple mouse buttons? Camera?! MEDIAKEYS?!
Ewwwwww!!!!
I want Clean.Simple.Stylish.Power.
If i wanted crappy ugly bells and whistles i'd buy a bloody dell.
Although an extra firewire port and better Audio wouldn't go astray. Fix up the bloody paint and i'll be happy.

I'll sacrifice 5400RPM etc for longer batt life, it's a laptop, i should be able to work for a day without a power jack, thats the point. if i wanted a decked out laptop that weighed half a ton and required a 3phase power hookup and a 30sec batt life i'd buy a dell.

I'm a coder/project architect, don't talk to me about environment efficiency, you should not need things like mediakeys to be efficient, if you do, you've set up your environment incorrectly. If i wanted a crappy environment, i'd use emacs *ducks*.

shadowfax
Jan 5, 2003, 06:33 PM
Originally posted by jaguarx
Multiple mouse buttons? Camera?! MEDIAKEYS?!
Ewwwwww!!!!
I want Clean.Simple.Stylish.Power.
If i wanted crappy ugly bells and whistles i'd buy a bloody dell.
Although an extra firewire port and better Audio wouldn't go astray. Fix up the bloody paint and i'll be happy.

I'll sacrifice 5400RPM etc for longer batt life, it's a laptop, i should be able to work for a day without a power jack, thats the point. if i wanted a decked out laptop that weighed half a ton and required a 3phase power hookup and a 30sec batt life i'd buy a dell.

I'm a coder/project architect, don't talk to me about environment efficiency, you should not need things like mediakeys to be efficient, if you do, you've set up your environment incorrectly. If i wanted a crappy environment, i'd use emacs *ducks*.

seriously. i couldn't agree more. excessive buttons and lights are horrendous-looking.

lights on my laptop:
power cord light: green for AC, orange for charging + AC power.
sleep indicator light
battery level indicator
the apple logo on the back lit by the LCD backlight

lights a laptop should have:
power cord light: you can't just look at the battery monitor when you have the lid closed, and let me tell you, a lot of people recharge their batteries with the lid closed.
battery level indicator: you can't just have a slab of li-ion. is it out of juice? full? why would you want to try to power up just to check?
sleep light: is it asleep or just off?
uber cool logo lighting that everyone i've ever met thinks is the coolest thing ever.

lights laptops don't need:
CPU usage light: try aquamon, top, or process viewer, genius, it's not like you use the processor when the thing is off or unhooked to a monitor, unless you're using it as a server, in which case, let me tell you about this 1U apple product that will get you a lot more bang for your $.
sound level light: oh, yeah, this is a pro audio system, you definitely need that. not to mention some 100 lb sonus faber "grand piano" speakers custom fit for your dolly, er, i mean ultralight laptop bag.
a secret compartment for airplane guiding lights: you never know, there's a chance one of those guys might get a tibook, and we just HAVE to accomodate, am i right?
cigarette lighter/ashtray: don't listen to those liberal big government freaks, support the tobacco companies!
hard drive usage light: yes, i just love how those things flash away on dells. how could anyone live without such an annoying, redundant flasher? i can't possibly just listen for my hard drive, because it's absolutely silent. and of course i have to know whether my hard drive is going at it for no reason, and whether it is going when i want it to.
CDROM spinup light: oh yeah, that's great. you can't hear those at all.
DVD/CD burn indicator: nice try.
internal temp LED, green for cool, yellow for fans, red for "turn your freaking machine off now stupid!": right.
MS apps running indicator: you can't trust them, so you may as well know if they are running, right? the light should turn red when they crash, too.
Classic indicator light: oh, jeez, i can't imagine how troublesome it is for me to open the system prefs to see if it's on. i bet i need a classic on/off button too, huh?

about those media keys: seriously, jaguarx had the nail on the head. those are for people who are too freaking lazy to organize their start menus. this is what the dock is for, where you can easily fit as many icons as you could on a media key array. honestly, 99% of the PC users i know have start menus that have utterly NO organization whatsoever, just all their 73 applications all listed out in default start menu folders that the installers put them in. when i was a windows user, i had all my MANY applications arranged into MS Apps, internet apps, music apps, graphics apps, games, etc. on top of that, i made macros for the most used apps, like ctrl alt s for photoshop, ctrl alt w for winamp, and so on. i find that much more space efficient, plus it makes my computer that much less accessible to stupid people who don't like organization.

if you still want media keys on your powerbook, go have a look at youpi key. i actually use it. it's 1.6342e500 times better than media keys, which still makes me think in horror of my MS internet keyboard i got rid of with the alacrity and gusto of boiled apricots.

daveg5
Jan 5, 2003, 08:39 PM
Originally posted by jaguarx
Multiple mouse buttons? Camera?! MEDIAKEYS?!
Ewwwwww!!!!
I want Clean.Simple.Stylish.Power.
If i wanted crappy ugly bells and whistles i'd buy a bloody dell.
Although an extra firewire port and better Audio wouldn't go astray. Fix up the bloody paint and i'll be happy.

I'll sacrifice 5400RPM etc for longer batt life, it's a laptop, i should be able to work for a day without a power jack, thats the point. if i wanted a decked out laptop that weighed half a ton and required a 3phase power hookup and a 30sec batt life i'd buy a dell.

I'm a coder/project architect, don't talk to me about environment efficiency, you should not need things like mediakeys to be efficient, if you do, you've set up your environment incorrectly. If i wanted a crappy environment, i'd use emacs *ducks*.
i was going to quote the guy under you but his reply was too long.
I wish i was good at photshop but i am not to all those with power books try this. I am not proposing tons of leds gobs of gold and a billion ports and superheavy machine as these two think.
Take your current powerbook and dont change the form factor.
Look at it closed from the front view. i would change nothing but ad the miniscule ryg leds onfront left corner red charging, yellow sleep, green on. thats it barely noticeable. left side closed, nothing, rear closed 1 added fireport and all the ports are gold plated(not noticable whentray is closed,
right side closed 4 mini 1/8" 24bit/96khz jacks and mini midi ports all tastefully down and covered nicely when not need. )for video you have digital, svideo, dual display- its time to get the audio quality up) if done right would only take up maybe 2". and from the bottom nothing just make a better slide in mechanism. top nothing. i just wanted my logo to have a blue tint to go with OSX( not needed but cool.
now lets open it up
2button pad in exactly the same place as the one button one (why is this bad) a simple scroll strip tastefully down(i think these two are musts)
a wider keyboard with a extremely thin accent trim in gold glow in dark whatever. not needed but cool or whatever.
Media keys i agree not needed.
extremely not really noticable small lense near the top of LCD. i saw this on a sony 505 i believe it was incredibly small and work good this is not a big giant ugly hole.
and I for one think Apple could do it better then sony and it would be great for ichat etc.
Basically the same weight or less if they use berilyum, same exact look from all angles with a few added and hard to see features.
It cant be ugly cause it looks exactly the same as the current TIbook unless you consider that ugly.
Oh and 1 more think give us more then 1 color, i want black if possible.
I know someone is going to misrepresent what I have just offered up as gross, heavy, unattractive, too many lights and buttons(I only widened the keyboard, added 2 pad buttons in the place of 1 and a small scroll wheel nicely done apple style. it should look better then the small keyboard we now have.
Anyway those who have powerbooks and actually read will know differently

shadowfax
Jan 5, 2003, 10:09 PM
Originally posted by daveg5

i was going to quote the guy under you but his reply was too long.
I wish i was good at photshop but i am not to all those with power books try this. I am not proposing tons of leds gobs of gold and a billion ports and superheavy machine as these two think.
Take your current powerbook and dont change the form factor.
Look at it closed from the front view. i would change nothing but ad the miniscule ryg leds onfront left corner red charging, yellow sleep, green on. thats it barely noticeable. left side closed, nothing, rear closed 1 added fireport and all the ports are gold plated(not noticable whentray is closed,
right side closed 4 mini 1/8" 24bit/96khz jacks and mini midi ports all tastefully down and covered nicely when not need. )for video you have digital, svideo, dual display- its time to get the audio quality up) if done right would only take up maybe 2". and from the bottom nothing just make a better slide in mechanism. top nothing. i just wanted my logo to have a blue tint to go with OSX( not needed but cool.
now lets open it up
2button pad in exactly the same place as the one button one (why is this bad) a simple scroll strip tastefully down(i think these two are musts)
a wider keyboard with a extremely thin accent trim in gold glow in dark whatever. not needed but cool or whatever.
Media keys i agree not needed.
extremely not really noticable small lense near the top of LCD. i saw this on a sony 505 i believe it was incredibly small and work good this is not a big giant ugly hole.
and I for one think Apple could do it better then sony and it would be great for ichat etc.
Basically the same weight or less if they use berilyum, same exact look from all angles with a few added and hard to see features.
It cant be ugly cause it looks exactly the same as the current TIbook unless you consider that ugly.
Oh and 1 more think give us more then 1 color, i want black if possible.
I know someone is going to misrepresent what I have just offered up as gross, heavy, unattractive, too many lights and buttons(I only widened the keyboard, added 2 pad buttons in the place of 1 and a small scroll wheel nicely done apple style. it should look better then the small keyboard we now have.
Anyway those who have powerbooks and actually read will know differently

ok, i don't know where to start. not to shoot all your ideas down, i definitely see room for improvement with this work of art.

i have a powerbook, you may have noticed, and i don't think the keyboard needs to be widened. it is standard size if not a little biggere than that, and the key sizes are all just right, except the arrow keys, but i think that apple did the best job fitting them in. i can't imagine a more elegant way to do so. the only reason to widen the keyboard would be to put a keypad on the right instead of via the num lock and over the "mjkluiop789" keys as you see. that to me seems rather pointless, because i think it'd look kinda messed up and unnaturally squeezed then. as it is, the layout looks roomy, in spite of the fact that this thing is so small, which gives it that elegant look.

the 2 buttons i would be fine with, except that's pointless IMO too. i use a right click all the time, my self. it's called holding down ctrl and pressing that one button, and i've actually grown to like it even more than two buttons, and there's a good reason, or set thereof, for this. first, ctrl clicking is really easy and not worth complaining about FOR A LAPTOP because your hands are always there on the keyboard anyway, so it's not an inconvenience like i think it is on a desktop. second, and much more convicingly, i have this strange problem where when i use a 2 button trackpad i sometimes hit the right button thinking i'm hitting the left one, because i use my thumb for both of them, the way i hold my hand over the trackpad. i find this second button annoying, and think that ctrl clicking is much less error-prone.

as to your scrollbar, please no. no no no. i have seen those done many times, and never well. for god's sake, the up and down arrows are right there, and if you're sneaky like me, you can go download uControl at http://osx.freshmeat.net/releases/107461/ . this can make it so that holding down the fn key and moving the mouse will do your scrolling. i used it for awhile, and realized i never really used it. but that's just me. do i think apple should incorporate that feature? heck yeah. scroller separate from the mouse? only if they use the one from the studio mouse, and even then, i wouldn't really like the look, i don't think.

as for adding dual heading, and more audio stuff, i do guarantee that that will make the thing bigger. the extra firewire port is a must though, as you astutely observed, andd USB 2 would be cool, except it's never going to happen for the same reason that intell will never put firewire on their own motherboards. it's competition. this peeves me, because my scanner would be a lot faster if i had USB 2, but alas, i suck it up OK.

i just examined my back ports again and noticed that right by the firewire port there, there is ample space for yet another, so that would really fit in there great.

as for the gold trim around the keyboard, i'm unsure of just what you meant, but as i understand it, that'd be a great idea, if i were a pimp, or i drove a gold-rimmed lowrider. but alas, i am no such pimp, nor do i drive a car with any visible gold plating. i wouldn't mind gold plating for the audio jack, and all the other jacks for that matter, but that would be completely out of place.

as for the light on the front, why? there's a cool oscillating light on the lid that tells you if it's asleep, and theres a green/orange light on the power supply cord that tells you unmistakably that it's charging/on AC. so why put another light on the front?

as for a webcam, sure, why not? it could fit, as you say, totally inconspicuously on the thing. they could even hide it in the hole for the latch, because those guys at cupertino are geniuses, but i don't see the need. of course, i concede you that one though.

if you didn't notice, i was being sarcastic about the lighting. i don't really think you want to put airplane guide lights on the laptop. i am just saying that the LEDs you suggest are redundant, that's all. i made it outrageous so we could all have a chuckle, but that obviously didn't work. i had a chuckle, though.

kenkooler
Jan 5, 2003, 10:42 PM
What I would change from my TiBook:
-A higher resolution screen would be nice, maybe around 1600x1060.
-A two/three button trackpad.
-Better speakers.
-Tougher paint or no paint at all.
-Two firewire ports like in older Powerbooks.

What I would't change:
-No scroll wheel for me, I'm fine using the up/down keys to scroll.
-No bigger keyboard.
-I see no use for a camera on my laptop.
-No media keys, being able to program the F8-F11 keys like in OS9 should be enough.
-No more LEDs, maybe using the sleep one to give some feedback about a programmed app.

Tommy> Airport reception is not that bad, better than in some Wintel laptops that I've seen. Usually it works within 30-40 meters from the base station.

daveg5
Jan 6, 2003, 01:52 AM
im glad to see i am not the only one who wants more than a one button pad.
however, i probably am the only one who wants a well implemented apple designed scroll wheel/strip and i am not lazy i just like the convienence and it does not have to take away from the tibooks design but rather enhance it.
the leds will let me now the status of my powerbook from across the room as i control it closed with a remote in my lazy chair for dvd or mp3 or whatever. they would be small unobtrusive and defeatable and match the OSX stop caution go window design.
i guess i am also the only one that wants to see a small sony-like lense hidden in the screen frame, be great for ichat, conferencing etc. like in the intel commercial with the two college students chatting for a movie, except they could also see each other wirelessly of course.
being a musician i am hoping for 24bit in the pro line with at least dolby digital out this may fit on back but i thought small right side door may look better and its about time for 24bit and dvd-audio playback heck with the superdrive and logic we could make our own 24bit 5.1 dvd audio disk self contained, I dont expect any non musicians to see that as a good idea 16 bit is good enough most will say.
I also think 24k gold plated (not shiny pimp fake gold ports) would look more professional and with slightly a larger keyboard for my big hands about 1/4" on left and right side not to the ends will help to distance the powerbook from the ibooks.
okay the media key was a stretch but i like them on my desktop.
every one agrees on the firewire port, better paint(make mine black), better speakers, better screen, and faster cpu and vid chips.
it looks good now, but there is always room for improvement

daveg5
Jan 6, 2003, 02:01 AM
although i used a friends on many ocassion i wish i had one like shadow man which made some good points but we will all use it differently so its good to here others ideas even if i disagree.
The one important thing we missed was a much improved, cooler and quieter cooling system which will probably happen when the g4 hit .13 or the 970.
i hope they keep the pc card slot that way we can upgrade to usb2-3 or firewire 2-3 later
peace out

iJon
Jan 6, 2003, 02:32 AM
Originally posted by daveg5
im glad to see i am not the only one who wants more than a one button pad.
however, i probably am the only one who wants a well implemented apple designed scroll wheel/strip and i am not lazy i just like the convienence and it does not have to take away from the tibooks design but rather enhance it.
the leds will let me now the status of my powerbook from across the room as i control it closed with a remote in my lazy chair for dvd or mp3 or whatever. they would be small unobtrusive and defeatable and match the OSX stop caution go window design.
i guess i am also the only one that wants to see a small sony-like lense hidden in the screen frame, be great for ichat, conferencing etc. like in the intel commercial with the two college students chatting for a movie, except they could also see each other wirelessly of course.
being a musician i am hoping for 24bit in the pro line with at least dolby digital out this may fit on back but i thought small right side door may look better and its about time for 24bit and dvd-audio playback heck with the superdrive and logic we could make our own 24bit 5.1 dvd audio disk self contained, I dont expect any non musicians to see that as a good idea 16 bit is good enough most will say.
I also think 24k gold plated (not shiny pimp fake gold ports) would look more professional and with slightly a larger keyboard for my big hands about 1/4" on left and right side not to the ends will help to distance the powerbook from the ibooks.
okay the media key was a stretch but i like them on my desktop.
every one agrees on the firewire port, better paint(make mine black), better speakers, better screen, and faster cpu and vid chips.
it looks good now, but there is always room for improvement
i think so far your only good idea was the extra firewire port. the gold would look stupid and i would agree with everyone else, it would be cool if i was a pimp. personally i hate gold tipped imputs. i have 7 of them on my audigy platinum and i hate it becasue i get confused sometimes which audio cables go in which, personally if im gonna have that many audio inputs i like color coded.

iJon

kenkooler
Jan 6, 2003, 10:20 AM
also, now that osx has support for 24 bit 96Khz audio i see no reason for implementing it in the hardware

shadowfax
Jan 6, 2003, 12:54 PM
Originally posted by daveg5
although i used a friends on many ocassion i wish i had one like shadow man which made some good points but we will all use it differently so its good to here others ideas even if i disagree.
The one important thing we missed was a much improved, cooler and quieter cooling system which will probably happen when the g4 hit .13 or the 970.
i hope they keep the pc card slot that way we can upgrade to usb2-3 or firewire 2-3 later
peace out

the cooling is probably hands down the best point you or anyone has mad so far. if they could make it silent all the time (minus hard drive noise, that's quiet and rare enough for me), that would be revolutionary and very very cool.

about the gold plating, i wasn't saying fake gold, i was making the allusion to the pimp because, if you look at the tibook as a work of art with color continuity and all that good stuff, you see that gold would be out of place, at least aesthetically. i'm not saying it wouldn't be moreprofessional, but it wouldn't fit right. now, if they put the audio port behind the back cover, or didn't gold plate the actual visible rim, that would be fine, great, good idea.

shadowfax
Jan 6, 2003, 01:02 PM
Originally posted by iJon

i think so far your only good idea was the extra firewire port. the gold would look stupid and i would agree with everyone else, it would be cool if i was a pimp. personally i hate gold tipped imputs. i have 7 of them on my audigy platinum and i hate it becasue i get confused sometimes which audio cables go in which, personally if im gonna have that many audio inputs i like color coded.

iJon

the reason he wants gold plate ports is because when electricity passes thrrough steel, or whatever metal they use on input/output connections, contacts it slowly leaves carbon there, and this carbon gradually deteriorates and then altogether disconnects the signal passing through. if, however, the contacts are gold plated with 24kt gold, this carbonizing doesn't occur, so the connector lasts a great deal longer.

on your audigy, there should be color-coded labels on each of the ports. green is the speaker/headphones port, red is the mic port, and so on. if they aren't color coded, then i guess SB is getting cheap, and i'm sorry you paid so much for your audio card.

shadowfax
Jan 6, 2003, 01:06 PM
Originally posted by kenkooler
also, now that osx has support for 24 bit 96Khz audio i see no reason for implementing it in the hardware

what? that's actually a reason for implementing it into the hardware, isn't it? i mean, you can't produce 24 bit audio on a 16bit audio board, can you? that's counterintuitive, just like you can't do real 64 bit computing on a 32 bit processor or see 32 bit color on a 16 bit display, no matter how many colors there are on the picture you are looking at.

so why would we not want 24 bit audio, now that OS X supports it?

daveg5
Jan 6, 2003, 01:48 PM
Well remember the powerbook i want would be black, therefore the color continuing scheme would work out and not the whole back plate just the ports, heck they are on my stereo system and my yamaha dsp factory, and emagic audiowerk2 card so i am used to it and with black i think it looks better then the dry tin gray. with the current titanium color gray would probably look better, agreed.
on the pro line I want 24bit at the hardware level, nothing less will do, i should not have to buy a usb or firewire or pc card on a pro machine to get pro sound. and with dvd audio maturing and 5.1 it is a must. for me anyway. even in silver.
but thanks shawdow for explaining the pros of gold over steel or color coded.
i think the camera hidden near the latch would be cool, you could keep in eye on your room or baby from a remote computer, take movies on the road, record who using your cpu and who with a lap top wants to hook up a large un weilding camera thru usb or firewire just for ichating, the cables and mess would not be worth it. my take anyway.
My top 5 powerbook improvement/added features not including cpu and video, hard drive speed and battery life are:
1. 24 bit in and out 5.1 surround digital (preferably gold on a black powerbook)
2. cooler running and quieter
3. small hiden camera
4. extra fire wire port
5. extra button and scroll wheel/strip
not necessarily in that order:
status leds and remote would just be icing not needed but fun(maybe a slightly larger or better keyboard not needed but cool for my big hands).
What are your top five request other then cpu, vid, hard drive speed and battery life.

kenkooler
Jan 6, 2003, 01:49 PM
Originally posted by Shadowfax


what? that's actually a reason for implementing it into the hardware, isn't it? i mean, you can't produce 24 bit audio on a 16bit audio board, can you? that's counterintuitive, just like you can't do real 64 bit computing on a 32 bit processor or see 32 bit color on a 16 bit display, no matter how many colors there are on the picture you are looking at.

so why would we not want 24 bit audio, now that OS X supports it?

sorry, i meant to say exactly the opposite, i guess i was too sleepy when i posted that

iJon
Jan 6, 2003, 02:03 PM
Originally posted by Shadowfax


the reason he wants gold plate ports is because when electricity passes thrrough steel, or whatever metal they use on input/output connections, contacts it slowly leaves carbon there, and this carbon gradually deteriorates and then altogether disconnects the signal passing through. if, however, the contacts are gold plated with 24kt gold, this carbonizing doesn't occur, so the connector lasts a great deal longer.

on your audigy, there should be color-coded labels on each of the ports. green is the speaker/headphones port, red is the mic port, and so on. if they aren't color coded, then i guess SB is getting cheap, and i'm sorry you paid so much for your audio card.
nope, creative does gold ports now on their audigys. they may do it on other cards. i have learned where the ports are, it was just confusing at first because because there was no color coding. plus i didnt pay a lot. i got my audigy platinum dirt cheap through our store.

iJon

shadowfax
Jan 6, 2003, 02:46 PM
Originally posted by iJon

nope, creative does gold ports now on their audigys. they may do it on other cards. i have learned where the ports are, it was just confusing at first because because there was no color coding. plus i didnt pay a lot. i got my audigy platinum dirt cheap through our store.

iJon

well, they have always done gold plating on good cards. i have an SB Live! 5.1 that has the gold plate jacks, but then there is a color coding around that, and it surprises me that they don't still do that. oh well. not like you use the back a lot anyways, or if you do, you know it darn well.

shadowfax
Jan 6, 2003, 02:53 PM
Originally posted by daveg5
Well remember the powerbook i want would be black, therefore the color continuing scheme would work out and not the whole back plate just the ports, heck they are on my stereo system and my yamaha dsp factory, and emagic audiowerk2 card so i am used to it and with black i think it looks better then the dry tin gray. with the current titanium color gray would probably look better, agreed.
on the pro line I want 24bit at the hardware level, nothing less will do, i should not have to buy a usb or firewire or pc card on a pro machine to get pro sound. and with dvd audio maturing and 5.1 it is a must. for me anyway. even in silver.
but thanks shawdow for explaining the pros of gold over steel or color coded.
i think the camera hidden near the latch would be cool, you could keep in eye on your room or baby from a remote computer, take movies on the road, record who using your cpu and who with a lap top wants to hook up a large un weilding camera thru usb or firewire just for ichating, the cables and mess would not be worth it. my take anyway.
My top 5 powerbook improvement/added features not including cpu and video, hard drive speed and battery life are:
1. 24 bit in and out 5.1 surround digital (preferably gold on a black powerbook)
2. cooler running and quieter
3. small hiden camera
4. extra fire wire port
5. extra button and scroll wheel/strip
not necessarily in that order:
status leds and remote would just be icing not needed but fun(maybe a slightly larger or better keyboard not needed but cool for my big hands).
What are your top five request other then cpu, vid, hard drive speed and battery life.

OK, that makes sense, i suppose. i just like the gray color aplenty, and would prefer it over black. black would still be better than every other laptop i've ever seen, don't get me wrong, but i just don't like it. so now i guess we can say that most if not all of our disagreements are over taste/aesthetics, and you can't really argue that; at least, not productively.

"she's hot!"
"no, she isn't, you dolt."
"she's not? why?"
"i just don't think she is. her neck is too long, her arms seem kind of skinny, and i don't like the shape of her eyes."
"i like her eyes just fine, and her neck is gorgeous."
"no, it's not."

top 5:

1. quieter/silent cooling system
2. better, scratch resistant paint
3. extra firewire port
4. slightly higher resolution screen, say, about what the iMac has, but not the 1600 x 1024, that's outrageously high IMO.
5. i'd like to get 4-5 hours out of my battery in OS X while actually doing something, you know? i can't top 3 hours ever in OS X, and i hate OS 9.

Bear
Jan 6, 2003, 03:30 PM
Second Firewire Port

This would be useful for having an iPod plugged in and using a second firewire device without having to carry around a firewire hub.

In my case, the second device would be a CompactFlash reader. It is noticably faster than the PC-Card(PCMCIA) reader I carry.

(And yes, the PC-Card reader is faster than a USB one.)

daveg5
Jan 6, 2003, 04:01 PM
Originally posted by Shadowfax


OK, that makes sense, i suppose. i just like the gray color aplenty, and would prefer it over black. black would still be better than every other laptop i've ever seen, don't get me wrong, but i just don't like it. so now i guess we can say that most if not all of our disagreements are over taste/aesthetics, and you can't really argue that; at least, not productively.

"she's hot!"
"no, she isn't, you dolt."
"she's not? why?"
"i just don't think she is. her neck is too long, her arms seem kind of skinny, and i don't like the shape of her eyes."
"i like her eyes just fine, and her neck is gorgeous."
"no, it's not."

top 5:

1. quieter/silent cooling system
i can see the benefit of more screen resoltion i dont know if 1400*900 will look good on a 15. i saw a pc 1600*1200 i believe on 15" very crisp but way to small. I dont think they need to increase the screen size though 15 is cool . you have 1 more idea cause battery life is a no brianer and i doubt if multi tasking osx will ever be as effeciant with batteries as the single tasking os9, but hey you never know.
2. better, scratch resistant paint
3. extra firewire port
4. slightly higher resolution screen, say, about what the iMac has, but not the 1600 x 1024, that's outrageously high IMO.
5. i'd like to get 4-5 hours out of my battery in OS X while actually doing something, you know? i can't top 3 hours ever in OS X, and i hate OS 9.

rmac
Jan 6, 2003, 04:19 PM
Anyone know how good Powerbook screens are for proofing images before printing them? In the college photo lab I work in we use all CRT monitors calibrated with a USB sensor. I understand that there are sensors that now can be used on LCDs too.

So is the LCD monitor and profile good out of the box (comparable to CRT)... or is a sensor needed for accurate color....or are CRTs still much better even with LCD sensors?

Having to print lots of proofs to get the right color is a pain...having calibrated monitors has helped immensely. Powerbooks seem perfect for photographers....even first generation G4 Powermacs handle 200-300 MB image files fine in Photoshop, so I imagine the Powerbooks now would be awesome (except for slower harddrives for scratch disk). But the monitor is a potential problem, though I guess a CRT could always be hooked up to it for last minute color tweaking. Downloading images in the field and editing them soon after is very attractive (and indeed Apple has been writing about many photographers doing this on their "hot news" page).

daveg5
Jan 6, 2003, 04:44 PM
www.formac.com claims thier lcd are the best for graphics with an available calibrator and many have used the cinema displays succefully. I doubt if the powerbook is in that same league.
Crt,s have matured much more and if you have to change from the "native" resolution all of your settings become slightly fuzzier not to mention bad pixels and frailty ever put a pen on a lcd screen and ease of theft, who wants to logg away a 22" sony flat screen which I am using now.
Lcds will probably catch up in a few years and are now being used with much success, lighter, quieter, and much easier on the eyes and my next monitor purchase will be one.
Anyway i am not sure how accurate they are as opposed to crt's and would like to now also.

Roger1
Jan 6, 2003, 06:58 PM
I only have a few things I would like to see different on the Powerbook

1. a recessed trackpad, like the old G3 powerbook. It annoys me to no end when my mouse goes skittering all over the screen from my thumb bumping it.
2. a 2 button track pad

3. How about a midnight blue case? Maybe iridescent?

daveg5
Jan 6, 2003, 08:02 PM
Originally posted by Roger1
I only have a few things I would like to see different on the Powerbook

1. a recessed trackpad, like the old G3 powerbook. It annoys me to no end when my mouse goes skittering all over the screen from my thumb bumping it.
2. a 2 button track pad

3. How about a midnight blue case? Maybe iridescent?

i think apple is working on technology to mac computers look to be different colors depending on light and angle, sort of like what duponts candy paint for cars does I would like a pealized blue that looks darker in light and ligher and dark (not glow in the Dark) if black is unavailable.
i agree on the two button pad, recessed hmmm interesting
maybe they will bring back the trackball optical of course

shadowfax
Jan 6, 2003, 10:42 PM
Originally posted by Roger1

It annoys me to no end when my mouse goes skittering all over the screen from my thumb bumping it.

if you go into the system preferences, you'll notice an option to ignore the trackpad when typing. it was annoying me too when i first got my tibook. i don't see what recessing the thing will do, the dells at school are like that only they don't let you turn off the trackpad while typing (at least, not with the protection software at school), and i still hit the trackpad inadvertently. the worst is that the tapping does a click, which often moves the cursor to a different place in the document i am typing on, and i don't notice.

GeneR
Jan 7, 2003, 01:38 PM
Originally posted by will
The powerbook is already a very nice laptop, but there's always room for improvement. In this post I look at how Apple might change the powerbook in its next update.

Hard Drive
Bigger is obviously better, but faster is important too. from the evidence I've seen it was a mistake for Apple to drop the faster RPM drives from the new models. To conserve battery life couldn't they have a drive the spins at a lower speed when on battery, reverting to full speed when on the mains?

Price
It's no good having a fantastic laptop if no one can afford it. Apple have moved in the right direction recently, but I'd like to see the low end model come down below $2000/£1400.

I almost jumped up in my chair with joy about the announcement of the new powerbook 17" version, but then the 60GB size hard drive made me slump back down into my seat.

How about 120+GB - 200GB HD so we can REALLY think of the Powerbook as the alternative to the desktop? I'd love to be able to capture DV footage into the powerbook, edit several hours worth of material and then burn a DVD out of the finished results. And since it's so big, why not give us extra juice in the way of a bigger battery life?

In the meantime, (and until the processor speed goes up with the HD size) how about a nice robotic arm built into the Powerbook. And a nice levitating disco ball that would match the Powerbook's reflective nature? Hmmm.

I think it's "iDumb" not to give us bigger hard drives or at least the option to bump it up and tell us it is an alternative to the desktop. I really want this alternative to happen. But it just hasn't sold me yet.


:mad:

jefhatfield
Jan 7, 2003, 02:04 PM
i have been sold on apple's high end laptops since the bronze keyboard g3 powerbook

and when the first revision tibook came out, i was forever stoked

the 17 inch powerbook is amazing, but for my purposes, the 12 inch powerbook is the best deal apple has going for a portable

apple could not bring the g4 to ibook this time, so apple brought the ibook 12 inch size to the powerbook...ultra cool and ibook priced at 1799:D

shadowfax
Jan 7, 2003, 02:50 PM
-

vniow
Jan 7, 2003, 02:52 PM
Originally posted by Shadowfax


17 inch powerbooK?
is? they have one? don't you mean "would be," in which case i strongly disagree.


www.apple.com

JSRockit
Jan 7, 2003, 03:25 PM
Originally posted by jefhatfield
i have been sold on apple's high end laptops since the bronze keyboard g3 powerbook

and when the first revision tibook came out, i was forever stoked

the 17 inch powerbook is amazing, but for my purposes, the 12 inch powerbook is the best deal apple has going for a portable

apple could not bring the g4 to ibook this time, so apple brought the ibook 12 inch size to the powerbook...ultra cool and ibook priced at 1799:D

I agree...I love the 12" model...I'm getting one as soon as possible...and have been waiting for a smaller TiBook.

jefhatfield
Jan 7, 2003, 03:41 PM
Originally posted by JSRockit


I agree...I love the 12" model...I'm getting one as soon as possible...and have been waiting for a smaller TiBook.

and for two hundred more, a superdrive...and the whole thing is nearly a third of a pound lighter than the 12 inch ibook:D

for the portable side, i think apple has finally listened to what the market wants and gone under a grand for ibook, under two grand for the pro stuff, and now offers every size...and in the process, we may end up with more macheads who switch from the pc world

JSRockit
Jan 7, 2003, 03:48 PM
Originally posted by jefhatfield


and for two hundred more, a superdrive...and the whole thing is nearly a third of a pound lighter than the 12 inch ibook:D

for the portable side, i think apple has finally listened to what the market wants and gone under a grand for ibook, under two grand for the pro stuff, and now offers every size...and in the process, we may end up with more macheads who switch from the pc world

Exactly...anyone who is not happy is looking at clockspeed numbers.

Stelliform
Jan 7, 2003, 03:54 PM
I just bought a TiBook w/ superdrive and such last November. (I am a switcher) I am very pleased with my purchase. The $200 more I paid 2 months ago is the cost of being on the bleeding edge in my book. Looking at the line up now I still would get the same notebook.

(however I am bummed that I cannot get Airport Extreme yet. I bet there will be a version for my laptop later. Hopefully.. PLEASE?!?!?) :)

Anyway, I am impressed with the new Powerbooks. The 12" is a remarkable computer. And I might have gotten that one instead of the 15" given the option. Go APPLE!

GeneR
Jan 7, 2003, 06:00 PM
Originally posted by jefhatfield


and for two hundred more, a superdrive...and the whole thing is nearly a third of a pound lighter than the 12 inch ibook:D

for the portable side, i think apple has finally listened to what the market wants and gone under a grand for ibook, under two grand for the pro stuff, and now offers every size...and in the process, we may end up with more macheads who switch from the pc world

One could seriously hope. That would be waaaaay cooooool. It makes sense to me. Some people just want laptops to write, check email, etc. Others really want a powerbook! And at the same price, it's great to have more options...

jaguarx
Jan 7, 2003, 11:27 PM
Gah i'm torn. I want the power of the 17", but i want the form factor of the 15". Damnit! Why couldn't they update them all?!
*sighs*. I guess i'm getting a 17", i'm sure i'll make use of hte extra screenspace.

will
Jan 8, 2003, 02:32 AM
How did Apple do v my original list of improvements (when I started this thread all those posts ago):



CPU No change - to be expected (roll on 970!)
Screen Wow, what can I say, we now have three choices of screen size! Max screen res is similar to the one I predicted.
Design and Build I haven't seen the new models in real life, so it's hard to be sure of build quality, but impressions are very good no more paint!
Graphics Nice new Geoforce 4 in 12" and 17". I am slightly suprised 17" model doesn't have higher spec version (4200 Go?).
Optical Drive They've made it faster on 17" model (2x DVD-R), and squeezed it into 12" model.
Ethernet and Modem I didn't see any room for improvement here, and Apple have wisely stuck with current conf (except 12" model which doesn't have gigabit)
Battery Life One of the few disappointments, new models actually have shorter battery life than 15" model. I hope Apple is working on this!
Camera This suggestion caused controversy, and Apple haven't introduced it. I still think it could be squeezed in unobtrusively (remember we're only talking web cam quality here). One to watch out for in future.
Hard Drive A little disappointing, still no 5,400RPM drives and max drive size is still 60GB.
Wireless 802.11g + bluetooth built-in, all you could ask for. Excellent move.
Ports Firewire800 on 17" model, and ports on the side (as I predicted), much more useable. Still no USB2, but I expect Apple will introduce this when FW800 has been rolled out across the range. Serious omission is DVI from 12" model meaning it can't be used with nice flat panels.
Keyboard Steve claims new keyboard is nicer to use (have to try it out and see) and the backlighting feature looks like another one of those great little touches. Shame it didn't make it into the 12" model.
RAM So I was a bit over the top about RAM (new DIMMs need to be available for Apple to serious increase RAM), but it's nice to see at least the high end models with 512M.
Price Pleasant surprise here, and my prediction was pretty accurate, we now have two models below $2000 and a well specced 15" for $2300.



In Summary
New Powerbooks look very good (physically and spec wise), the only areas I can really see room for improvement are CPU, battery life, and adding a DVI port to the otherwise excellent 12". Hopefully all the new features will make it into the 15" model soon (especially the paint-free aluminium case). By offering a range of screen sizes Apple should keep everyone happy. Now if only I could afford one :)

Wyrm
Jan 8, 2003, 02:54 AM
The new books look awesome...

but (my 2 yen)...

2 batteries in the 17" should have been there - it is big enough. This was something the PISMO could do, and could drive an entire day off a power cord (not "up" to 5 hours - which is probably about half in real life).

Graphics - although better, I'd like to see the 4200 Go from nVidia. That's a big leap from the 440, and 420. ATI hasn't come out with a mobile 9700 version yet - but that should be soon?
How about something really cool, like an upgradeable graphics card? That would be an industry first for sure!

What ever happened to the dual CPU model (ok ok, more of a nerd factor)? The 17" enclosure should be able to hold it... maybe a bit thicker (I mean if you want a "LAPTOP" then the 15" or 12" are good sizes... but we're talking PowerMAC replacement!) and use a single CPU on battery. Of course I'd take a single 64bit 970 any day of the week.

I think they didn't get the airport extreme quite right - an 802.11g card can fit in a PCMCIA footprint, and would have allowed an easier upgrade for current powerbook owners... maybe this is coming?

The keyboard on the 17" should be bigger - I mean they have the space right? (NO FRIGGIN' PAGE-UP-PAGE-DOWN!) I guess by keeping the keyboard more or less then same format it cuts down on costs? But when has Apple been known to cut corners?

Sounds stupid, but what about a handle? You wouldn't have to cradle it half expecting your new computer will shatter to a million pieces if it slips out of your embrace.

----------------
Wyrm

jefhatfield
Jan 8, 2003, 10:48 AM
the 17 inch is designed as a full desktop replacement..and i could also see 2 processors in it

GeneR
Jan 8, 2003, 12:35 PM
Originally posted by Wyrm
The new books look awesome...

2 batteries in the 17" should have been there - it is big enough. This was something the PISMO could do, and could drive an entire day off a power cord (not "up" to 5 hours - which is probably about half in real life).

The keyboard on the 17" should be bigger - I mean they have the space right? (NO FRIGGIN' PAGE-UP-PAGE-DOWN!) I guess by keeping the keyboard more or less then same format it cuts down on costs? But when has Apple been known to cut corners?

Sounds stupid, but what about a handle? You wouldn't have to cradle it half expecting your new computer will shatter to a million pieces if it slips out of your embrace.

----------------
Wyrm

I agree with Wyrm about the battery, keyboard, and handle bit. That, plus a bit more HD... It will be interesting to hear if anyone builds a mod box off of the 17"... say, a slim suitcase with a handle, expanded keyboard, more power, etc.

I think CNN.com did a story a while back about people in Japan doing these mod boxes with some impressive results.

What about a mini portable dock for your powerbook?
We have docks that rest on desktops, but what if there was a dock which had the handle, extra battery power, HD, etc... and which you could seamlessly connect to your 17" powerbook and take with you when you needed it? That way, you had options whether or not you wanted to take along the extra weight? Some days you may just take your 17" powerbook. Other days, if you are on the road, for example, you take the entire dock and PB?

jefhatfield
Jan 8, 2003, 01:23 PM
are there are third party docks out there for the latest apple laptops, within the last year?

i do know there is a dock out there for the ibook

the 17" inch machine is not all that portable but good for a mobile, sometimes moving it, desktop replacement from home to office

but i would not want to be a world traveler with that heavy machine

if i flew a lot, i would get the 12" inch model for sure

jaguarx
Jan 8, 2003, 10:28 PM
3Kg and 40cm ain't that big.
Fit nicely in my about-to-be ordered timbuk2.com bag ;)

Over Achiever
Jan 8, 2003, 11:10 PM
Or into my about to be ordered WaterField SleeveCase which gets put into my ordinary Jansport backpack (I checked the dimensions of my backpack...the 17" fits :D)

jaguarx
Jan 9, 2003, 12:16 AM
mmm thanks, timbuk2 don't have a case for it yet =)