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MacRumors
Apr 18, 2013, 12:20 PM
http://images.macrumors.com/im/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2013/04/18/apple-revises-one-to-one-policy-limits-data-migration-to-first-60-days/)


Apple has changed the terms of its retail store One to One service (http://www.apple.com/retail/learn/one-to-one/) (via ifoAppleStore (http://www.ifoapplestore.com/2013/04/18/apple-revises-one-to-one-limits-data-migration/)), which is a $99 program that gives Apple customers personal training lessons on Mac usage from an Apple employee.

The new terms state that One to One customers must initiate the included Data Migration services within 60 days of purchasing a One to One membership.

http://images.macrumors.com/article-new/2013/04/onetoone.jpgOne to One members are entitled to Data Migration services for one (1) Mac purchased from an Apple Retail Store, Apple Online Store, or 800-MY-APPLE, if requested within the first sixty (60) days of your membership, including any renewals. Data Migration includes the data transfer of files from your old computer (PC or Mac) to your Mac.Previously, Data Migration could be requested at any point during the year-long One to One service term, but a late migration can be more complicated than a migration that is initiated directly after purchase.

Completing the data transfer a while after the initial purchase can lead to difficulty and confusion for both the staff doing the transfer and the end user who is still learning to navigate around a Mac computer.

With the shift to digital software distribution, Apple is also now requiring that One to One assistance with software installation occur face-to-face in a Personal Training or Open Training session rather than as part of the Data Migration process.

Article Link: Apple Revises One to One Policy, Limits Data Migration to First 60 Days (http://www.macrumors.com/2013/04/18/apple-revises-one-to-one-policy-limits-data-migration-to-first-60-days/)



Klae17
Apr 18, 2013, 12:22 PM
Stop taking away our perks. I was already pissed off enough about Apple canceling the iPod program! Greedy bean counters.

guzhogi
Apr 18, 2013, 12:27 PM
Does Apple offer a 1-to-1 training thing for companies, schools, etc.? I'm an IT guy at a school and I think some of the staff would really like being able to go in for training.

frayne182
Apr 18, 2013, 12:27 PM
How hard is it to transfer data a few months down the road? After all they only hire someone who is a "genius"

needfx
Apr 18, 2013, 12:27 PM
sounds rational, but they should consider implementing another service; [Mergation], the lovechild of merging & migrating

JDee
Apr 18, 2013, 12:27 PM
$41 billion in profit last year and they take away silly things like this.

They don't think the customer will notice as well!

alksion
Apr 18, 2013, 12:32 PM
A little off topic, but I think their retail stores, especially in malls, need some expanding.

For instance, two separate Genius Bars at opposite sides of the store. One dedicated for iOS devices and the other dedicated strictly for Macs. The iOS bar being slightly larger in order to accommodate the usual crowd in greater numbers and the Mac bar being smaller due to the obvious demand of iOS device help and repair.

Just some food for thought, but maybe I'll write Tim an email.

Jessica Lares
Apr 18, 2013, 12:33 PM
Probably because people were selling them? I know people here at MR were...

bedifferent
Apr 18, 2013, 12:37 PM
A little off topic, but I think their retail stores, especially in malls, need some expanding.

For instance, two separate Genius Bars at opposite sides of the store. One dedicated for iOS devices and the other dedicated strictly for Macs. The iOS bar being slightly larger in order to accommodate the usual crowd in greater numbers and the Mac bar being smaller due to the obvious demand of iOS device help and repair.

Just some food for thought, but maybe I'll write Tim an email.

Also, hold training sessions and classes in a quiet room or setting. I've had many come back from them stating how difficult it was to hear and learn as the stores are so noisy.

needfx
Apr 18, 2013, 12:43 PM
meanwhile, at the other side of the bar

Val-kyrie
Apr 18, 2013, 12:58 PM
I don't understand the objections posted here. If a person purchases One-to-One, I would think that data migration would be one of the first things on the "To-Do" list, and 60 days is more than ample for this. . . . unless the objections are based on selling a service (i.e., data migration) which was not intended to be sold, then the objections are merely posturing and whining about the inability to abuse the system.

Enlighten me.

britboyj
Apr 18, 2013, 12:59 PM
Also, hold training sessions and classes in a quiet room or setting. I've had many come back from them stating how difficult it was to hear and learn as the stores are so noisy.

We had this problem at the store we worked at, and extended our One to One hours to two hours before before the store opened and an hour after it closed to accomodate older customers. They'd knock on the glass, we'd open it, they'd train. It was great. They brought us donuts and orange juice like, all the time.

Generally, I agree, but most stores just don't have the space for it.

needfx
Apr 18, 2013, 01:05 PM
to all those customers purchasing such services;
have they ever heard of : The Internet?

Madcowsoon
Apr 18, 2013, 01:20 PM
Does Apple offer a 1-to-1 training thing for companies, schools, etc.? I'm an IT guy at a school and I think some of the staff would really like being able to go in for training.

Yes you can purchase one to one for teachers. Contact the business team at your local apple for details. A joint venture might also be an option.

MaxDrago
Apr 18, 2013, 01:26 PM
How hard is it to transfer data a few months down the road? After all they only hire someone who is a "genius"

Merging the data from 2 separate users into a single user is a pain. Duplicate files (or different versions), duplicate contacts, duplicate locally stored mail... which Music and Photo libraries are primary. If there's already an iTunes library, which one do you keep and which one do you import data from (usually losing or duplicating playlists in the process). A royal pain. I do this in a corporate environment and it stinks. We issue a new machine, move you to it, and the old machine goes away... No straddling old and new... Always leads to headaches.
It's why the Migration fine print states the machine you're moving to will be wiped if there's anything on it, so the data being moved to it is as it was on the old machine at the time of transfer. The exception is if there are separate users to be Migrated. Adding another user (Migrating John and Mary is already using the machine), no sweat.
If all you want is files not based on things in ~/Library, not in apps that use a database to track what's where (iTunes, iPhoto), etc... no problem. Copy it, move on (then listen to complaints about duplicates for an hour). :mad:

RoastingPig
Apr 18, 2013, 03:59 PM
only old people do one to ones

needfx
Apr 18, 2013, 06:58 PM
meanwhile, in a parallel universe

charlituna
Apr 18, 2013, 07:55 PM
Does Apple offer a 1-to-1 training thing for companies, schools, etc.? I'm an IT guy at a school and I think some of the staff would really like being able to go in for training.

Joint venture

And during the year there's the field trips for teachers

----------

How hard is it to transfer data a few months down the road? After all they only hire someone who is a "genius"

The terms are that they wipe the computer because they use Migration Assistant which creates another user.

The point of offering the data transfer is to set up your new computer. If you've been using it for several months you not need a set up. You need something way more labor intensive. And it's supposed to be used for your new computer, not some old computer running Leopard etc.

That's why the rules. And considering the price you are paying for this AND the training, it's not outrageous rules when you consider that outside folks will charge $10-20 an hour and include that 10 hours the machines were chewing on file copying while they were sleeping

NT1440
Apr 18, 2013, 08:06 PM
I think this has everything to do with the amount of time a Genius is allotted with an individual client.

iMikeT
Apr 18, 2013, 09:26 PM
Just my personal thoughts, some people should never be allowed to use a computer due to how computer illiterate they are to begin with. No amount of training or a One to One will ever get some people to use a computer properly.

jdechko
Apr 19, 2013, 11:45 AM
I think this has everything to do with the amount of time a Genius is allotted with an individual client.

Unless the procedure has changed, this is not an "at the bar appointment". You drop off both machines and fill out a form that lists all files to be transferred. The geniuses in the back perform the actual transfer.

NT1440
Apr 19, 2013, 11:46 AM
Unless the procedure has changed, this is not an "at the bar appointment". You drop off both machines and fill out a form that lists all files to be transferred. The geniuses in the back perform the actual transfer.

That's a normal genius bar repair, not the one on one service being described. Two different services.

frayne182
Apr 19, 2013, 12:26 PM
lol so many genius talk.

jdechko
Apr 19, 2013, 01:06 PM
That's a normal genius bar repair, not the one on one service being described. Two different services.

I know they are 2 different services. But when I worked for Apple and sold a One-to-One Membership, we would have the customer fill out a sheet with what they wanted transferred (Music, Photos, Documents, Email, Mac applications, etc). They'd write down their old passwords and leave both machines with us. Between 24-48 hours later we would call them to tell them their data had been transferred.

On the front end, there was no need for a genius to get involved. As a specialist, I could handle the initial transaction and then hand off the computer to a genius who would perform the migration in back of house. No genius appointments necessary, at least not when I worked there.

SockRolid
Apr 19, 2013, 01:07 PM
The new terms state that One to One customers must initiate the included Data Migration services within 60 days of purchasing a One to One membership.

Uh oh. Just wait until Chinese "consumer rights" groups hear about THIS.

charlituna
Apr 19, 2013, 03:03 PM
That's a normal genius bar repair, not the one on one service being described. Two different services.

Nope that is the one to one transfer.

Bar appointments are 15 minutes according to the schedule. No way could you do a full data migration of any decent amount of data in that time. Thus you leave them and get them back in a day or two

----------



On the front end, there was no need for a genius to get involved. As a specialist, I could handle the initial transaction and then hand off the computer to a genius who would perform the migration in back of house. No genius appointments necessary, at least not when I worked there.

The techies do the paperwork now. My guess is too many sales folks getting the paperwork wring and/or making promises that couldn't be kept. So now the people doing it do the intake

And given that the intent is to setup your new computer I think 14 days after activating your one to one is more than enough.

JAT
Apr 19, 2013, 03:25 PM
Just my personal thoughts, some people should never be allowed to use a computer due to how computer illiterate they are to begin with. No amount of training or a One to One will ever get some people to use a computer properly.
Think that through: Then there would be zero computer users.

rdlink
Apr 19, 2013, 03:27 PM
I have to say that One-to-One was a disappointment. I bought it with the hope of getting training on some more complex OS X stuff, and all they were able to offer me was things like Pages, iPhoto, Aperture, etc. I could get all of the training on that stuff I want by going to the Apple support site.

Plus, given that I work days finding a time to take the class that wasn't already booked was always a challenge.

itryanditry
Apr 19, 2013, 11:03 PM
I have to say that One-to-One was a disappointment. I bought it with the hope of getting training on some more complex OS X stuff, and all they were able to offer me was things like Pages, iPhoto, Aperture, etc. I could get all of the training on that stuff I want by going to the Apple support site.

Plus, given that I work days finding a time to take the class that wasn't already booked was always a challenge.

While I agree that the subjects they offer are simplistic, this is ultimately something that anyone computer literate would pass on. It's a cheap way to learn for people new to Apple technology. Expecting kids in retail to teach you the inner workings and hidden features of OS X for such a low price - and for a service that's obviously designed to keep a n00b loyal to the brand - is a pretty tall order and unrealistic. Take a course or hell, read that stuff on the Internet.

musique
Apr 19, 2013, 11:21 PM
I have to say that One-to-One was a disappointment. I bought it with the hope of getting training on some more complex OS X stuff, and all they were able to offer me was things like Pages, iPhoto, Aperture, etc. I could get all of the training on that stuff I want by going to the Apple support site.


I had a few similar experiences as rdlink. Once I made an appointment, specifying that I needed help doing color correction with video I had in FCPX. Unfortunately, for me, I knew as much as the fellow who was supposed to assist me. He suggested that I go to another Apple store in the area. I did and, pretty much, had the same experience, but this time with Motion.

Both Apple people tried hard to help, but simply didn't have the detailed knowledge of these feature-rich products. It's too bad. The concept of one-to-one is great. The reality for me, not so much.

macchiato2009
Apr 20, 2013, 08:05 AM
uh oh. Just wait until chinese "consumer rights" groups hear about this.


:d

Toltepeceno
Apr 20, 2013, 04:53 PM
meanwhile, at the other side of the bar

heh, reminds me of that horrible bonzibuddy back on windows.

biggbird72
Apr 20, 2013, 06:49 PM
I don't see a problem with this at all.

If you pay for the one-to-one you might as well get the migration done right away. It will ensure a faster turn-around time and less headache for the tech. Sure, it's not impossible to do later down the road, but it can be a PITA as already stated. Any complications can prolong the time you're deprived of your machine.

DMH3006
Apr 20, 2013, 10:27 PM
I had a few similar experiences as rdlink. Once I made an appointment, specifying that I needed help doing color correction with video I had in FCPX. Unfortunately, for me, I knew as much as the fellow who was supposed to assist me. He suggested that I go to another Apple store in the area. I did and, pretty much, had the same experience, but this time with Motion.

Both Apple people tried hard to help, but simply didn't have the detailed knowledge of these feature-rich products. It's too bad. The concept of one-to-one is great. The reality for me, not so much.

I don't think you understood what the purpose of one-to-one is.
They're just supposed to teach how to use OSX for regular consumers,if you need help on such apps as FCPX you either need to contact direct support for that app(which will be trained on that software) or search support forums.
You're basically asking a salesman to help you fix your engine,obviously he can't do that.

jdechko
Apr 21, 2013, 07:22 AM
I don't think you understood what the purpose of one-to-one is.
They're just supposed to teach how to use OSX for regular consumers,if you need help on such apps as FCPX you either need to contact direct support for that app(which will be trained on that software) or search support forums.
You're basically asking a salesman to help you fix your engine,obviously he can't do that.

You used to be able to get more in-depth training. One-to-one used to be able to train for FCP, Logic and Aperture in addition to some advanced capabilities of OS X. Most of the time we had certified trainers who either used the software in personal ventures or had trained on software. This was/is the "creative" position and is separate from the Specialists (sales) and geniuses (support).

My theory is that just like the Genius Bar, the creative has become a victim of apples own success. There are just too many new customers that need basic support that the needs of the professional have fallen by the wayside. Trained creatives have left the company to pursue more lucrative ventures to the point that only larger stores (San Fran, New York 5th Ave, London) are able to maintain a staff capable of training people on FCP, etc. and Apple is adding new stores at a blistering pace. I'm sure they would love a full creative staff, but they just can't do it.

Additionally, iOS devices are hugely popular and so training for iPhones, iPads and iPods also has to be thrown into the mix.

As a result, basic training is handed off to specialists who mainly only know simple stuff like getting started with a Mac.

EDIT: The one to one page still advertises training for Logic, FCP, Motion and Aperture. It's just that many stores don't have properly trained staff.

davcolley
Apr 22, 2013, 06:33 AM
On the Mac Data Migration is one of the easiest things to do. Just search for instructions. We are not talking windoze software here.

LastLine
Apr 22, 2013, 08:43 AM
Here's an honest question? What percentage of users actually think after two months of using their computer "Hey, I should transfer all my files from the old one?" I suspect very few.

rdlink
Apr 22, 2013, 02:17 PM
While I agree that the subjects they offer are simplistic, this is ultimately something that anyone computer literate would pass on. It's a cheap way to learn for people new to Apple technology. Expecting kids in retail to teach you the inner workings and hidden features of OS X for such a low price - and for a service that's obviously designed to keep a n00b loyal to the brand - is a pretty tall order and unrealistic. Take a course or hell, read that stuff on the Internet.

Ridiculous statement. They charge a premium price for a service that I could get for free by attending group classes, or reading on the internet. Problem is that they don't tell you the limitations, or give any real expectation about what you can learn for your $100 (on top of the $2000 already spent) before you buy it. They hold it out as something special, which it is not. And they won't even let you buy it unless you're buying a new computer. And, you have to buy it on the spot or no deal.

charlituna
Apr 22, 2013, 02:33 PM
Ridiculous statement. They charge a premium price for a service that I could get for free by attending group classes, or reading on the internet.

No they don't. They charge $100 for a data transfer intended, and not enforced, to be for your new computer to set you up to use it AND a year of classes of various types with the only limit being you can only have 1 of each type booked at a time. But depending on your flexibility you could easily get 1000 hrs of training in that year, perhaps more. So you are paying pennies for each hour. Rather than $75 for maybe 5 hours in some community college class, $20 a month for something like Lynda.com.

As for that data transfer, private shops often charge an easy $20 a hour with a 2-3 hour minimum for transfers. If anything like data recovery is required the price often goes up. Even places like the Geek Squad often charge like $50 for a mere 5 GB of data and more for every GB above that. And sure they will install software for you but in some cases they keep the licenses so you have to come back and OS again for any reinstalls.

THAT is premium pricing not what Apple is charging for this

And if you bother to read (http://www.apple.com/retail/learn/one-to-one/) or even ask yes they do tell you

rdlink
Apr 22, 2013, 02:51 PM
No they don't. They charge $100 for a data transfer intended, and not enforced, to be for your new computer to set you up to use it AND a year of classes of various types with the only limit being you can only have 1 of each type booked at a time. But depending on your flexibility you could easily get 1000 hrs of training in that year, perhaps more. So you are paying pennies for each hour. Rather than $75 for maybe 5 hours in some community college class, $20 a month for something like Lynda.com.

As for that data transfer, private shops often charge an easy $20 a hour with a 2-3 hour minimum for transfers. If anything like data recovery is required the price often goes up. Even places like the Geek Squad often charge like $50 for a mere 5 GB of data and more for every GB above that. And sure they will install software for you but in some cases they keep the licenses so you have to come back and OS again for any reinstalls.

THAT is premium pricing not what Apple is charging for this

And if you bother to read (http://www.apple.com/retail/learn/one-to-one/) or even ask yes they do tell you

Here we go, another person speaking out of their a**. A direct quote from the One-to-One marketing materials that you linked to:

"Then, we’ll work with you to create a curriculum tailored to your goals, learning style, and experience level."

So, not sure what you read from that, but what I read was that I could get classes on more advanced topics should my "experience level" be such. But when I tried to get classes on more advanced features of OS X, I was told that they didn't have the expertise to offer it. And further, when they started offering One-to-One there was nothing out there that described it in this much detail. Believe me, I dug around.

As far as being flexible, I suppose you mean not having a job? And being willing to schedule a month ahead of time, which is what I had to do for the one class I took.

Finally, the data import that they're now selling as part of One-to-One was at one time offered for free with a new Mac purchase.

Look, I like Apple. I own three Macs, an iPad, an iPhone, an Apple TV, and a Time Capsule. Apple sells a lot of great products. One-to-One, IMO is not one of them.

charlituna
Apr 22, 2013, 03:26 PM
Here we go, another person speaking out of their a**. A direct quote from the One-to-One marketing materials that you linked to:

"Then, we’ll work with you to create a curriculum tailored to your goals, learning style, and experience level."

So, not sure what you read from that,



I read from the fact that I wasn't at the end of the page that there was more information. I would think someone that owns so much tech could do the same.


Apple sells a lot of great products. One-to-One, IMO is not one of them.

You aren't the target audience, that isn't really Apple's issue but rather yours. That's really what it comes down to. Even if they were going to offer a program just the way you want it in terms of topics, schedule etc you would be unhappy because it won't be $99 a year and you will be made that they are 'raping you' with an 'unnecessary' high cost.

rdlink
Apr 22, 2013, 10:56 PM
I read from the fact that I wasn't at the end of the page that there was more information. I would think someone that owns so much tech could do the same.



You aren't the target audience, that isn't really Apple's issue but rather yours. That's really what it comes down to. Even if they were going to offer a program just the way you want it in terms of topics, schedule etc you would be unhappy because it won't be $99 a year and you will be made that they are 'raping you' with an 'unnecessary' high cost.

Since you are such an expert at knowing what Apple's target audience was for One-to-One, perhaps you could tell them that they sold it to me incorrectly, and get them to refund my money... :rolleyes:

charlituna
Apr 22, 2013, 11:17 PM
Since you are such an expert at knowing what Apple's target audience was for One-to-One,

If by expert you mean I possess basic reading comprehension and logic skills sure.



perhaps you could tell them that they sold it to me incorrectly, and get them to refund my money... :rolleyes:

Because despite all your tech and advanced skills you don't know how to ask for yourself?

rdlink
Apr 23, 2013, 10:57 AM
If by expert you mean I possess basic reading comprehension and logic skills sure.



Because despite all your tech and advanced skills you don't know how to ask for yourself?

What exactly am I missing here? They said they would tailor a class to meet my needs, and then said they couldn't when I asked them to. Pretty basic to me.

OnceYouGoMac
Apr 27, 2013, 07:07 PM
Wouldn't getting rid of One to One altogether be better? It would make me feel better :D Now if you'll excuse me, I'm off to watch TV shopping channels :p Anyone want to join me? Bring diet coke and crisps ;)