NVidia 7800 GT Option, More Dual Core G5 Benchmarks

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Apple is now offering the NVidia GT video card as a Build to order option on the PowerMac G5 configurations. The video card from NVidia utilizes the new PCI Express architecture introduced on the new PowerMacs.

The 7800 card is a $400 upgrade for Dual 2.0 G5 buyers and a $350 upgrade for Dual 2.3/Quad 2.5 buyers. Apple provides a comparison chart (http://www.apple.com/powermac/graphics.html) of the various cards offered on the new PowerMacs.

Need faster performance for motion graphics, animation, and 3D design and visualization? Upgrade to the NVIDIA GeForce 7800 GT, designed to accelerate the latest creative applications and blockbuster games.

Meanwhile, MacCentral has published (http://www.macworld.com/news/2005/10/25/dualcorebenchmarks/index.php) some benchmarks for the new dual-core PowerMac G5s. Again, no real-life benchmarks for the Quad PowerMac G5s are yet available as they are not shipping at this time. These benchmarks confirm that the Dual Core machines were generally comparable to the clock-equivalent dual processor machines.

[Lord Blackadder]

Ah, excellent news! Good price too.

[Hiroshige]

This is excellent news!

Shipping time is 6-8 weeks with this card!

[longofest]

I was wondering where this card was in the options! But since I game on my PC box, the Geforce 6600 will suit me just fine on my new Quad :-).

[robbieduncan]

I've got a 7800GT in my games PC. It an amazingly fast card. It can push out 60fps most of the time in Doom3 and the highest quality settings with 4xAA and 8xAS turned on (1280x1024). It's about time the Apple got serious about offering top quality card in the PowerMac!

[MacTruck]

I don't see it on the build page at all.

[TrumanApple]

this quad is going to be fast...

[patseguin]

I was wondering if either of the new Duals would be a worthy upgrade from my 1st gen Dual 2.0. It doesn't seem like I would be getting a significant speed increase going to the 2.3GHz config. I wonder if the Quad will be the way to go?

[MacTruck]

this quad is going to be fast...


Lets hope so, I had to sell one of my kids to get it. :(

This is excellent news!

Shipping time is 6-8 weeks with this card!


Ok, I was going to cancel my previous order and reorder it with this card until I saw that 6-8 week ship time. No thanks. I want my computer some time before the macintels come out.

[ijimk]

will it be suported in my sig cpu if i bought it seperate? :confused:

[AidenShaw]

Interesting, the Speedmark scores show the dual-core 2.3 to be 2¼ times faster than a 1.25 GHz MiniMac....

So, the quad-core will probably be 2½ times faster than a Mini - w00t !! :eek:



(Further proof of the validity of the comment "Lies, Damn Lies, and Benchmarks" )

[Lord Blackadder]

Ok, I was going to cancel my previous order and reorder it with this card until I saw that 6-8 week ship time. No thanks. I want my computer some time before the macintels come out.

I imagine that it will be available from the Apple Store as a kit in the near future - they already offer the 6600 as kit.

[Jesus]

WOO HOO. The quad will be groovy. Credit card at the ready.

Jesus

[G5Unit]

How does this card compare to my X800XT?

[Apple Corps]

Yes - good news on the video card. However - I do not understand the emerging commentary (various postings on various sites) that a lack of performance penalty for moving from dual processor to dual core is good news at all. The move to dual core was supposed to generate significant (50% - 80%) improvement because the dual core processor(s) could communicate with each other directly on the die and not have to go through the memory bus / controller - thus more speed.

Also - does one not have to wonder that there IS a performance penalty considering the dual core machines had the "advantage" of pci express and DDR2 533 memory?

Thoughts?

[Epicurus]

I was pretty sure this was coming, despite all the rumors to the contrary. Apple had to have a card priced between the 6600 and the Quadra. 6-8 weeks is a long wait, but at least Apple has quieted down the rumors by comfirming that the cards will be available (eventually). If they've been waiting for the cards for a few weeks and still have 8 weeks to go, that might be why Apple didn't offer the card to begin with. Can you imagine seeing a ship estimate of 8-10 weeks! That would really hurt sales. Now that people have had a moment to really look at the other graphics options, tossing in the 7800 with a long ship time shouldn't affect too many people's decisions to buy a PowerMac.

For me, I'm holding out for a PowerBook upgrade to the NVidia Go 7300. :D :D :D

[Tastannin]

will it be suported in my sig cpu if i bought it seperate? :confused:

Nope. Those new PowerMacs and cards are PCI Express. Not the same as PCI or PCI-X. Your G5 uses AGP for its video card anyways. Sorry.

You'd do better to either upgrade your G5 to one of the new ones, or just get a X800 XT AGP card off eBay.

[MacTruck]

How does this card compare to my X800XT?


I think its like the same.

[Sdashiki]

Wow the difference from the GeForce 6600 to the 7800 is huge

8 Gbps to 32

225 million vertices to 700

2.4 billion fills to 8

just much bigger numbers. big jump.

[bigandy]

Lets hope so, I had to sell one of my kids to get it. :(


lucky, at least you've got kids to sell to fund more mac purchases! :rolleyes:

methinks my dual 2.7 is going out the window to fund a nice quad.... although my PB really needs updating. i'm going to maybe get the quad, and hold off on the PB until the 2nd gen intel, if i possibly can, without selling my soul to the bank. again!

[Tastannin]

Yes - good news on the video card. However - I do not understand the emerging commentary (various postings on various sites) that a lack of performance penalty for moving from dual processor to dual core is good news at all. The move to dual core was supposed to generate significant (50% - 80%) improvement because the dual core processor(s) could communicate with each other directly on the die and not have to go through the memory bus / controller - thus more speed.

Also - does one not have to wonder that there IS a performance penalty considering the dual core machines had the "advantage" of pci express and DDR2 533 memory?

Thoughts?

Well, I think that if you did some specific benchmarks that would take advantage of the dual core processor's strengths, you'd see how it does much better. You need to remember that the single processor dual core G5's don't have the advantage of the two separate FSB's that the older dual processor G5's have. I'm no benchmarking guru, but the new G5's have gained something and lost something, I'm not surprised that they're about even. The early buzz was that the dual cores were actually slower than the dual processors, so I think it's just a sigh of relief that its not as bad as originally thought.

[crazzyeddie]

will it be suported in my sig cpu if i bought it seperate? :confused:

No. Your computer uses AGP for graphics cards. The best card you can get is the Radeon X800XT or X850XT, which are still very good cards.

[Bear]

I was wondering if either of the new Duals would be a worthy upgrade from my 1st gen Dual 2.0. It doesn't seem like I would be getting a significant speed increase going to the 2.3GHz config. I wonder if the Quad will be the way to go?It doesn't make sense for you to get the new dual core 2.0 or 2.3 Not enough speed increase. The Quad would be the way to go if you feel the need to upgrade.

[arn]

Yes - good news on the video card. However - I do not understand the emerging commentary (various postings on various sites) that a lack of performance penalty for moving from dual processor to dual core is good news at all.


Wasn't meant to be "good" news... just news. they are comparable.

arn

[Tastannin]

Wow the difference from the GeForce 6600 to the 7800 is huge

8 Gbps to 32

225 million vertices to 700

2.4 billion fills to 8

just much bigger numbers. big jump.

Yup, a great big jump, makes the money and wait worth it for the card, IMHO. Have you seen the EDU pricing, just outrageous, $2200 for dual core 2.0 with GF7800 card!! If I had the money, I would have ordered one already. (Muttering to self: "Must get another client thats willing to pay up front!") LOL

[ijimk]

Nope. Those new PowerMacs and cards are PCI Express. Not the same as PCI or PCI-X. Sorry.

You'd do better to either upgrade your G5 to one of the new ones, or just get a X800 XT AGP card off eBay.

can i get one of those X800 XT AGP cards from the apple store? and my cpu does suport the nvidia geforce 6800 right? if so might i see a price drop in that in the apple store?

[Tastannin]

I have an Apple M8893ZM/A 20" Cinema Display for sale.

Need cash quick, please make me an offer at … No offer is too small.


Wrong place to post this. Oops. :cool:

[forumBuddy]

can i get one of those X800 XT AGP cards from the apple store? and my cpu does suport the nvidia geforce 6800 right? if so might i see a price drop in that in the apple store?

buy.com will have a lower price on x800xt .

[Tastannin]

can i get one of those X800 XT AGP cards from the apple store? and my cpu does suport the nvidia geforce 6800 right? if so might i see a price drop in that in the apple store?

Yup, you can get either the X800 XT or the 6800 from the Apple store. $449 and $499 respectively. Both should work in your G5. Dunno about the price drop. Apple usually will drop the item entirely rather than drop the price if it's no longer in demand. I've seen people parting out their X800's and 6800's from their G5's that they're selling to get their G5 Quads - so you might have better luck in forums or on eBay.

[robbieduncan]

How does this card compare to my X800XT?

The 7800GT is faster than an X800XT.

Very Recent Benchmarks (http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/quake_4_high-end_performance/)

If you skip to page 5 in the linked benchmarks you can see an X800XT scores 75fps (more or less) in Quake 4 (1280x1024, 8xAF). The 7800GT scored 98. Whilst this is on a PC, not a Mac I would expect the difference on the Mac to be similar.

[MacTruck]

can i get one of those X800 XT AGP cards from the apple store? and my cpu does suport the nvidia geforce 6800 right? if so might i see a price drop in that in the apple store?


I got one for sale. Sitting pretty in the box right next to me. $395 + Shipping.

[Apple Corps]

Well, I think that if you did some specific benchmarks that would take advantage of the dual core processor's strengths, you'd see how it does much better. You need to remember that the single processor dual core G5's don't have the advantage of the two separate FSB's that the older dual processor G5's have. I'm no benchmarking guru, but the new G5's have gained something and lost something, I'm not surprised that they're about even. The early buzz was that the dual cores were actually slower than the dual processors, so I think it's just a sigh of relief that its not as bad as originally thought.

I think the "sigh of relief" perspective is spot on to my commentary. An upgrade should be an upgrade - this appears to be minor - most disappointing in light of how long the Powermac line has languished with minimal improvements. Oh well - it is what it is - let's hope the QUAD provides some real juice :D

[combatcolin]

The card isn't in the UK store yet.

[RobHague]

Is this going to be available seperatley?

[aueua]

Looks more powerful:
http://www.hardwarezone.com/articles/view.php?cid=3&id=1697

And seems to be Mac compatible:
http://www.hardwarezone.com/articles/view.php?id=1638&cid=3&pg=2

Cheers!

[robbieduncan]

Looks more powerful:
http://www.hardwarezone.com/articles/view.php?cid=3&id=1697

And seems to be Mac compatible:
http://www.hardwarezone.com/articles/view.php?id=1638&cid=3&pg=2

Cheers!

The GTX is more powerful. It's also more expensive. I think the real issue is that the Quadra card they are selling is a 7800GTX with different drivers/card setup so the speed numbers would be too close.

[andiwm2003]

Looks more powerful:
http://www.hardwarezone.com/articles/view.php?cid=3&id=1697

And seems to be Mac compatible:
http://www.hardwarezone.com/articles/view.php?id=1638&cid=3&pg=2

Cheers!


25% more expensive for 5-10% more performance. thanks, but no thanks.

[ipacmm]

Ok, I was going to cancel my previous order and reorder it with this card until I saw that 6-8 week ship time. No thanks. I want my computer some time before the macintels come out.


Good to know, I was going to do the same thing, but I can't wait any longer. I hope I can just order the card through Apple for $399 or something like that...I will just order it later.

[Tastannin]

25% more expensive for 5-10% more performance. thanks, but no thanks.

Amen!! And knowing Apple, they'd charge us $750 for a 7800 GTX too, while the 7800 GT kit would probably go for $500.

[aueua]

Hmmm...
... the 512 MB Quadra is a Pro product (see: http://www.nvidia.com/page/qfx_uhe.html ).
At product launch time, the 256 MB GTX was 110$ more expensive than the GT (559 USD, instead of 449 USD), that's much cheaper than the 1650 $ Quadro FX.

[Frobozz]

Well, I think that if you did some specific benchmarks that would take advantage of the dual core processor's strengths, you'd see how it does much better. You need to remember that the single processor dual core G5's don't have the advantage of the two separate FSB's that the older dual processor G5's have. I'm no benchmarking guru, but the new G5's have gained something and lost something, I'm not surprised that they're about even. The early buzz was that the dual cores were actually slower than the dual processors, so I think it's just a sigh of relief that its not as bad as originally thought.

Considering that Dual Core Pentiums are (currently) *slower* than their counterparts I'd consider break even a win, too.

[Apple Corps]

Wasn't meant to be "good" news... just news. they are comparable.

arn

Arn - my comments were motivated by what I am sensing on various sites and threads - not directed to this specific news ;)

I have a Rev B dual 1.8 - rock stable - but a bit slow on big Photoshop files. For the $$$ I want to make sure that I feel the performance day to day - looks like the QUAD may be my only near term choice.

[AidenShaw]

The move to dual core was supposed to generate significant (50% - 80%) improvement because the dual core processor(s) could communicate with each other directly on the die and not have to go through the memory bus / controller - thus more speed.
It's 50 to 80% faster than a single core - just like a dual single core is 50% to 80% faster than a single single core.

[nagromme]

Glad it didn't take long.

But what about the team Apple was hiring to improve OpenGL and its performance? Will we see fruits of that in Leopard, or before?

[DaftUnion]

I would love to have that good of a card in a mac. Oh well, maybe when I get a PowerMac someday after this iMac.

[jiggie2g]

Looks more powerful:
http://www.hardwarezone.com/articles/view.php?cid=3&id=1697

And seems to be Mac compatible:
http://www.hardwarezone.com/articles/view.php?id=1638&cid=3&pg=2

Cheers!

Here are a few useful equations for those who want to caltulate Video Card Power.

GPU clock speed x Pixel Pipes = Fill Rate [ex. 7800GT has 20pipes @400mhz , 400x20 = 8000 or 8GP/s.]

Memory Clock x 32(for 256bit bus) = Memory Bandwidth [ 7800GT has 256MB GDDR3@ 1000mhz stock on a 256bit bus , 1000x32= 32000 or 32GB/s.]

Memory Clock x 16(128bit memory bus) = Memory Bandwidth [6600 has 128MB GDDR@500mhz on a 128bit bus , 500x16 = 8000 or 8GB/s.]

I own a eVGA 7800GT 256MB GDDR3 and have it OC'd from the default 400mhz/1000mhz to 490mhz/1200mhz. the difference I went from 8 Giga Pixels to 9.8 Giga Pixels and from 32GB/s to 38.4GB/s memory bandwidth. That's huge and I scored nearly 8000 in 3Dmark05' from 7100 at stock.

This is a Monster Card i'm glad I purchased it , instead of the GTX. The extra 4 pixel pipes will only matter on games played at 1600 x 1200 or better with eye candy effects on and then you're talking about 7-9fps for an extra $100 on average.

Too bad Apple insist on raping it's loyal fan base as this card can be had as low as $329 after rebates. To be fair I paid $419 for my eVGA but it also came with a free copy of BattleField 2 , Factory OC'd @445/1070 and was purchaed the week it was announced by Nvidia. It didn't hurt me too bad as I had already manged to sell my Leadtek 6600GT for $100.

[wibbly_pig]

Any difference between the 7800GT going in the new G5s and an off the shelf one for any old PC that I can already buy in the UK for just over £200?

The 7800 isn't listed in the UK apple store yet, but going by the U.S. 6600 to 7800 upgrade price and the usual Apple $=>£ conversion rate, I'd get it faster and cheaper by ordering a G5 off the shelf with the 6600 and adding the 7800 myself...and be able to have extra screens with the extra card...although this is obviously dependent on the mac version of the 7800 not being modified in any way. Any ideas?

[gugy]

Just upgrade to the NVidia 7800 GT. with edu discount the card is $315 for the quad G5. Very nice.
My only complaint will take additional 2 to 4 weeks on top of 3 to 4 weeks already. Wow that's painful!:( :eek:

[sephirot]

After seeing the fan on the quadro on the Apple graphics card comparision site, here is my question:
Of the three available cards for the new PowerMacs, which one is the most silent? :p

regards
Seph

[robbieduncan]

After seeing the fan on the quadro on the Apple graphics card comparision site, here is my question:
Of the three available cards for the new PowerMacs, which one is the most silent? :p

regards
Seph

Well the 7800GT I have in my PC is certainly not silent! It's not massively noisy but as soon as there is a quieter cooler available (Arctic Cooling have one coming), I'll be replacing it. I would not be surprised if the Quadro card is worse.

[Chacala_Nayarit]

Not a bad deal for EDU customers:

Subtotal $4,192.00

Estimated Ship:
6-8 weeks
Free Shipping

Specifications


* 2.5GHz Quad-core PowerPC G5
* 1GB 533 DDR2 Non ECC SDRAM- 2x512
* 250GB Serial ATA - 7200rpm
* NVIDIA GeForce 7800 GT 256 MB SDRAM
* Apple Cinema Display (20" flat panel)
* Bluetooth Module + AirPort Extreme Card
* 16x SuperDrive DL (DVD+R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
* Apple Keyboard & Mighty Mouse - U.S English
* Mac OS X - U.S. English
* Accessory kit

Anybody remember circa 2001? The 4,000USD PowerMac G4 dual without a monitor, was a "supercomputer"! It's all about the gigaflop. :rolleyes:

[Multimedia]

To my surprise, this 7800 GT Option is still not listed in the Educaitonal Store's Quad G5 Order form. :confused:

[JCT]

To my surprise, this 7800 GT Option is still not listed in the Educaitonal Store's Quad G5 Order form. :confused:


Are you sure? I just sent my order down to my purchasing agent and it had the 7800GT listed...

JT

[Multimedia]

I was wondering if either of the new Duals would be a worthy upgrade from my 1st gen Dual 2.0. It doesn't seem like I would be getting a significant speed increase going to the 2.3GHz config. I wonder if the Quad will be the way to go?Definitely only the quad would be significantly faster. I have dual 2 AND dual 2.5 and am trying to sell both to turn them into one quad.

You will not see any advantage with either of the single dual core models.

Are you sure? I just sent my order down to my purchasing agent and it had the 7800GT listed...

JT
They must have just added it. + $315 quite the bargain. Thanks for the update.:)

[Eevee]

Is it worth the wait (6-8 weeks) for the 7800 card?

I am planing to get the G5 for Illustrator, Photoshop, web, and some games like Halo.

Or should I just get the 6600 256 MB with the G5 (7-10 days).

[JCT]

They must have just added it. + $315 quite the bargain. Thanks for the update.:)

LOL, no problem, the minute I saw it I hit "order" . And just yesterday my Apple EDU rep said he didn't know when they would be released. Par for the course.

The Quad plus that card will be some fast beast!

JT

[Multimedia]

Is it worth the wait (6-8 weeks) for the 7800 card?

I am planing to get the G5 for Illustrator, Photoshop, web, and some games like Halo.

Or should I just get the 6600 256 MB with the G5 (7-10 days).Worth the wait for sure. This card will cost a lot more to buy later and adds to the overall performance of the Quad considerably. So this is really almost Christmas first delivery at best. So waiting for MacWorld Expo to see what else drops in the January 10 SteveNote besides iLife '06 wouldn't hurt either. I would wait to order after iLife '06 ships then. But that's just me being cheap. :p

[Eevee]

Worth the wait for sure. This card will cost a lot more to buy later and adds to the overall performance of the Quad considerably. So this is really almost Christmas first delivery at best. So waiting for MacWorld Expo to see what else drops in the January 10 SteveNote besides iLife '06 wouldn't hurt either. I would wait to order after iLife '06 ships then. But that's just me being cheap. :p

Thanks Multimedia. I have a budget from my grant that has to be spent by the end of this month (!), and thus, I can't wait for MacWorld Expo. My original order of the G5 2.0 Ghz with the 6600 card was placed this morning. I think I'll cancel it, re-order the G5 2.0 Ghz with the 7800 card.

[csimon2]

Well the 7800GT I have in my PC is certainly not silent! It's not massively noisy but as soon as there is a quieter cooler available (Arctic Cooling have one coming), I'll be replacing it. I would not be surprised if the Quadro card is worse.Actually, the nVidia 4500 and 3400 Quadros we use in our HP xw9300s are quieter than the 7800GT and GTXs we also use in-house on the same systems. Funny thing is, if it weren't for the nVidia card at all, this PC would be almost totally silent.

For those of you wondering how a Quadro 4500 compares to the 7800 GT, on the PC they are essentially the same initial board. Only, the Quadro line is the professional line and has a much lower error tolerance level and is built to last a minimum of three years without ever needing a checkup. Whereas, by even some of nVidia's partners own admissions, the consumer line of cards are only built to last one year under heavy stress.

The big difference on the PC side is driver support. The Quadro drivers are usually a few releases behind and use primarily OpenGL. The 7800 drivers are updated more often, and rely upon DirectX. Its because of this that our developers run with the 3400 and 4500, and our demos and turnkey solutions run with the 7800. nVidia's OpenGL drivers for rendering Windows Media on the PC are much worse than the 7800's DirectX drivers.

[AidenShaw]

:o

Thanks Multimedia. I have a budget from my grant that has to be spent by the end of this month (!), and thus, I can't wait for MacWorld Expo. My original order of the G5 2.0 Ghz with the 6600 card was placed this morning. I think I'll cancel it, re-order the G5 2.0 Ghz with the 7800 card.
You must have great skills at writing grants to justify an extravagance like this....

[vassillios]

Definitely only the quad would be significantly faster. I have dual 2 AND dual 2.5 and am trying to sell both to turn them into one quad.

You will not see any advantage with either of the single dual core models.

I must disagree:

1) faster clock
2) up to 16gb mem (ddr2 at that)
3) pci-e


from the looks of the benchmarks thus far, the DC 2.3 is faster than the DP 2.3 i just returned. so any move up would be worth it....of course the quad would be the best choice.

[phd]

I purchased the Quad the day of the announcement. I would love to change my order but I am afraid I can not wait for the extra delivery time.
My question is will the 7800 plug right in if I purchase it at a later date? Or is it a special installation?

[JCT]

I purchased the Quad the day of the announcement. I would love to change my order but I am afraid I can not wait for the extra delivery time.
My question is will the 7800 plug right in if I purchase it at a later date? Or is it a special installation?

Oh no, it should be straightforward to replace the stock 6600 with a 7800GT . I replaced the stock video card in my current Dual G5 -- no problem whatsoever.

I've decided to deal with the extra wait ...but it will be tough.

JT

[gugy]

hopefully the extra wait won't be too long.
Yeah, it seems a great deal to get this card. It's much more powerful than the 6600.
wow, the quad with this card will rock!:D

[ksz]

hopefully the extra wait won't be too long.
Yeah, it seems a great deal to get this card. It's much more powerful than the 6600.
wow, the quad with this card will rock!:D
I was waiting for the 7800GT to appear as a BTO option. We get Employee Purchase Pricing with Apple so our price is very close to educational prices. If I place my order now, it might arrive by the time I'm back from my business trip. Decisions decisions.

[greenstork]

I was waiting for the 7800GT to appear as a BTO option. We get Employee Purchase Pricing with Apple so our price is very close to educational prices. If I place my order now, it might arrive by the time I'm back from my business trip. Decisions decisions.

I've been waiting too for the 7800 as a BTO. There was no way that I was paying for the 4500 FX, that thing was just ridiculously priced. I'll likely continue to wait 6-8 weeks before placing my order however, but I'm psyched!!

[MacTruck]

Its better to buy the 6600 card now and get your quad quick and then upgrade later. That way you get the 7800 and the 6600 card for quad monitors. Thats what I am doing. Besides I am waiting for a 512mb card for under $500

[gugy]

the wait it's terrible. I have 2 cinema displays that I received this week sitting here in their boxes. I hope we can get this by end of November/first week of December. if later, I hope Apple will give us a copy of Ilife 06 for free.

But I'm glad I changed my order. the 7800 GT seems to be an awesome card with a very reasonable price.

[Modano]

Its better to buy the 6600 card now and get your quad quick and then upgrade later. That way you get the 7800 and the 6600 card for quad monitors. Thats what I am doing. Besides I am waiting for a 512mb card for under $500
Are you sure they will both fit in the Quad? Don't both these cards require the only available 16x PCI Express slot in this machine?
I agree it's better to get the machine sooner and add the 7800 later, which is what I'm doing. It's worth the (say) $200 not to have to wait an 4-6 additional weeks, in my opinion.

[gugy]

how much is the 7800 card stand alone?

[twoodcc]

i would like to see some benchmarks against an intel and amd pc.

[ksz]

the wait it's terrible. I have 2 cinema displays that I received this week sitting here in their boxes. I hope we can get this by end of November/first week of December. if later, I hope Apple will give us a copy of Ilife 06 for free.

But I'm glad I changed my order. the 7800 GT seems to be an awesome card with a very reasonable price.
The wait is terrible, but wanting and having can be equally fun. It was a 6 week wait for my Build-To-Order 545i and you can imagine my anticipation in the final 2 weeks before delivery.

I have waited before and I can wait again.

[Zoowatch]

my only worry about the PM Quad is the loud fan noise (+ beeping sound)

the lack of liquid cooling system and addition of NVidia 7800GT will probably makes the system even louder...

i am looking forward to Quad's first review to see if Apple has managed to make this machine a lot quieter than those PM of previous generations.

this is the consideration right now that's holding back my purchasing decision

why are some of u guys talking about the possible shipment (of the PM Quad) only just before Christmas?

i thought Apple will make this machine available in Nov onwards....

so if i add 3 weeks of building the system + 1 week of delivery... that should be before the end of November right?

[andiwm2003]

why are some of u guys talking about the possible shipment (of the PM Quad) only just before Christmas?

i thought Apple will make this machine available in Nov onwards....

so if i add 3 weeks of building the system + 1 week of delivery... that should be before the end of November right?


shipping for systems with the nvidia 7800 gt graphics card is 6 to 8 weeks.

plus 1 week of delivery is 7-9 weeks.

unpacking is 25 sec.. setting it up is 5 min..

that gets you close to christmas.

[Modano]

my only worry about the PM Quad is the loud fan noise (+ beeping sound)

the lack of liquid cooling system and addition of NVidia 7800GT will probably makes the system even louder...
I thought I read that the Quad is, in fact, liquid cooled. Am I misremembering this?

[Zoowatch]

I thought I read that the Quad is, in fact, liquid cooled. Am I misremembering this?

i have not seen Apple mentioning this anywhere that the Quad is liquid cooled...

i am also 99% sure that it is cooled by fans

[wibbly_pig]

UK store is down. Perhaps the 7800 is finally arriving here too? Or something more interesting?

[agreenster]

Will the 7800 work in the first generation dual 2gig G5s?

Where could I buy it stand-alone?

[gugy]

From AppleInsider:

Apple's new high-end Power Mac G5 Quad and NVIDIA's GeForce 7800 GT graphics card are both in the final testing stages at Apple and could begin shipping in the second half of November, according to reports.

Apple's online store currently lists lead times of 3 to 4 weeks for the Power Mac Quad and 6 to 8 weeks for the NVIDIA 7800, but Apple representatives recently told an AppleInsider correspondent that the company hopes to ship the first batch of both products in mid-to-late November.

Power Mac G5 Quad Ultimate configuration

In the weeks that will follow, Apple retail stores nationwide will begin to stock a special Power Mac G5 Quad configuration that will include the 7800 GT as standard, according to reliable sources. The configuration will be called the "Power Mac G5 Quad Ultimate" and will retail for around (US)$4000 with 1GB of DDR2 RAM and other component upgrades.

NVIDIA GeForce 7800 GT delays

Slowing the release of the 7800 appears to be a stringent set of Apple acoustic guidelines which the graphics cards must meet before they can be included inside the new Power Macs. Since the 7800 packs its own fan in addition to its 256MB of GDDR3 SDRAM, Apple wants to be sure the cards do not contribute significantly to the noise already produced by the Power Mac's own cooling system.

Apple reportedly uses a sophisticated set of software algorithms to active or deactivate specific fans inside the Power Macs depending on the type and size of the data being processed. In addition to the two inlet and outlet fans present in each Power Mac G5, the Power Mac G5 Quad requires a liquid cooling system to help regulate the temperature inside the computer.

Liquid Cooling System

Once again, it appears that Apple has tapped Troy, Mich.-based Delphi-Harrison for the cooling systems, which are manufactured in Mexico and flown to Apple's manufacturing facilities in the Far East. The cooling systems resemble an automotive radiator and consist of approximately 80% water with an added mixture of corrosion inhibitors and bacterial growth preventatives.

Though it's uncertain, reasonable speculation suggests that the Power Mac G5 Quad may be seeing delays associated with its few specialized components -- mainly the liquid cooling system and faster 2.5GHz IBM PowerPC 970MP processors.

Apple performance benchmarks

Although Apple has not shipped any Power Mac G5 Quad systems that could be used to perform benchmarks calculations, tests run by the company in September show the Quad to be 88% faster in double-preciscion math calculations than the previous-generation Power Mac Dual 2.7GHz model. Likewise, the Quad proved to be 39%, 55% and 85% faster than the Dual in BBSv3 multiple-processor tests, Cinebench multiple-processor rendering tests, and floating-point calculations, respectively.

Power Mac G5 Quad vs Power Mac G4 Dual

Apple also compared the performance of the Power Mac G5 Quad to the Power Mac G4 Dual 1.42MHz in a series of software tests. According to the results, the Quad performed a 45-filter Photoshop CS2 test 184% faster than the Power Mac G4. In After Effects 6.5.1 the Quad faired even better, completing a visual effects rendering test 272% faster than the G4.

Real-world benchmarks

However, the only real-world Power Mac G5 Quad benchmark comes from Luxology, developers of the Modo surface modeling environment. According to a recent posting by the company's Allen Hastings, the Power Mac G5 Quad renders over twice as fast as Apple's previous Power Mac G5 Dual 2.5GHz systems.

"We had the opportunity to try one of the new quad G5s with modo 201 and I must say I was impressed with its speed," Hastings wrote in a message to the Luxology online forum. "As an example, it rendered the global illumination test image shown above in 17 seconds flat. The scene includes 244,000 polygons with 8 sample antialiasing and 200 indirect rays."

By comparison, Hastings said the Power Mac G5 Dual 2.5GHz took 38 seconds to render the same scene.

That's great news.
I can't wait to get this machine. I changed yesterday my order to add the GT card. I think the quad with GT will be a great machine for the next 2 to 3 years until Intel revB comes along. Then I think will be safe to upgrade.

Look forward to get it by end of November!

[Modano]

So the Quad is liquid-cooled. That should make it fairly quiet, right?

[JCT]

That's great news.
I can't wait to get this machine. I changed yesterday my order to add the GT card. I think the quad with GT will be a great machine for the next 2 to 3 years until Intel revB comes along. Then I think will be safe to upgrade.

Look forward to get it by end of November!

I'm with you...I held off ordering until the 7800GT showed up and then pulled the trigger. Quad Ultimate indeed! :D

And my EDU rep seemed to think that it wouldn't take 6-8 weeks to arrive. Though it will be my luck for it to show up in the middle of my teaching schedule.....

JT

[chubad]

Does anyone think that this is the last upgrade to the Powermac line before the Intel switch?
I want to get a Powermac and avoid the first few years of the Intel thing. I want the Quad core G-5 but if there is one more update, even a small one, I could wait.:)

[gugy]

it's very possible one more upgrade to happen. But I wouldn't expect anytime soon. It has been taking almost a year between upgrades for the G5, so maybe by end of next year we might see another upgrade for the PM PPC G5.

I think Intel PM will be here probably by beginning of 2007. So it wouldn't hurt to buy this Quad G5 now. It would take care of you until RevB Intel is launch.

[JCT]

I completely agree with gugy, I decided to get a Quad + 7800GT with the plan to keep it for a number of years. The PMs are rumored to be the last models to go to Intel and I want to avoid Rev A of anything.

I had the chance to see a Quad in action at the Photo Expo and it was impressive!

JT

[andiwm2003]

it's very possible one more upgrade to happen. But I wouldn't expect anytime soon. It has been taking almost a year between upgrades for the G5, so maybe by end of next year we might see another upgrade for the PM PPC G5.

I think Intel PM will be here probably by beginning of 2007. So it wouldn't hurt to buy this Quad G5 now. It would take care of you until RevB Intel is launch.


the buyers guide shows that the PM g5 where updated every 6 month except one update that took 10 month. so i fully expect one more update for the powermacs. but i don't expect it to be earlier than mid 2006. and i don't think it will be much more than a 10% speed bump with a moderate price drop.

in fact i think the people who bought a dual g5 6 month ago made a great investment because their machines are still top of the line. the same will be with the quads you buy now. they will be top of the line even if there is a 2.7ghz quad at some point. that 5% speed increase will not matter.


................... The PMs are rumored to be the last models to go to Intel and I want to avoid Rev A of anything.
................JT .

isn't the quad some sort of a rev. A?

[gugy]

I wouldn't put too much faith on IBM. Then have been very inconsistent delivering update chips to Apple. I believe we'll see another update but maybe no so impressive like the quad. So I think it's a safe bet to get the quad now if you need it.
Intel revA could be amazing. The problem will be the applications will run under Rosetta. native Intel apps might take a little longer to come so, I think is safer to wait revB of Intel. Hopefully by then we'll have almost all the apps native to Intel.

[AidenShaw]

isn't the quad some sort of a rev. A?
Actually, the quad is vaporware at this point :eek:

Sometime in November or December, when they actually start shipping, you can call them Rev A.

(But you can call the other dual-core single chip systems Rev A - since they have new chips, new northbridge, new memory, new PCIe, new....) :rolleyes:

[Eevee]

Just purchased the new dual core G5 2.0 Ghz with the 7800 Card with the 23" Display.:D Now I have to wait till Dec 28th!!! :eek: Why such a long wait (sorry if this has been answered somewhere else)?

1) Is there a shortage of 7800 cards available for the new G5?
2) Is the 7800 not very compatible with the new G5? Heard the G5 is already noisy, and that adding the card increases the overall fan noise. Is this true?
3) Heard that Apple is trying to deactivate one of the fans on the new G5 when the fan on the 7800 card is activated.

Hmm...

[Lord Blackadder]

Hmm, seems like for once GPU availability isn't the culprit for the long lead times?

If I was running the show I'd look at total GeForce 6800/X800/X850 sales, increase that number by 10% and then plan on manufacturing that many 7800GT cards ASAP to avoid shipping delays. Oh, and I'd throw in some 7800GTX SLI cards for the gaming madmen!

Interesting question - when will we see SLI? If it is done Apple will probably have to do much of the work, which means never. ATI's dual card system may well be first to the Mac (if ever).

[andiwm2003]

Hmm, seems like for once GPU availability isn't the culprit for the long lead times?

If I was running the show I'd look at total GeForce 6800/X800/X850 sales, increase that number by 10% and then plan on manufacturing that many 7800GT cards ASAP to avoid shipping delays. Oh, and I'd throw in some 7800GTX SLI cards for the gaming madmen!

Interesting question - when will we see SLI? If it is done Apple will probably have to do much of the work, which means never. ATI's dual card system may well be first to the Mac (if ever).


how much faster is sli?

i remember somehow it is only 20% faster. in that case it would be a waste of money. probably depends on the system set up and the game/application of course.

[Tastannin]

how much faster is sli?

i remember somehow it is only 20% faster. in that case it would be a waste of money. probably depends on the system set up and the game/application of course.

The way I understand it is that the cards must be exactly the same, and that the game also must support SLI explicitly, otherwise it's not gonna work. Nvidia claims 2x the speed with 2 cards, and real-world speeds will range from 10% to 50% faster according to various sites I've googled.

Another con on SLI is the power draw. The Quad G5 will suck plenty of power with just a 7800 or Quadro card in there.

It's definitely a waste of money to get a 2nd high end video card for SLI and then once you've got both cards, your rig is only the best until the next high-end card comes out.

I like what I hear of ATI's SLI (different cards can be hooked up, etc) but haven't paid much attention to it lately. I'm more excited about HD hardware decoding and video encoding on the video card from ATI than I am about SLI. Hope Apple releases an ATI-based PCIe card sometime soon.

[andiwm2003]

.........................................

It's definitely a waste of money to get a 2nd high end video card for SLI and then once you've got both cards, your rig is only the best until the next high-end card comes out.

I like what I hear of ATI's SLI (different cards can be hooked up, etc) but haven't paid much attention to it lately. I'm more excited about HD hardware decoding and video encoding on the video card from ATI than I am about SLI. Hope Apple releases an ATI-based PCIe card sometime soon.


yeah, i got the same impression. it's probably better not to use sli and rather save the money and buy the next generation card.

i also hope that they bring the ati cards with h.264 acceleration. it seems to be only decoding. i hope they get hardware acceleration for encoding and decoding. the money would be btter spent on those cards than on a sli rig that helps with two games at best.

[Lord Blackadder]

I pretty much agree with you guys that SLI isn't worth the cost, especially since GPUs are still a long way off the clockspeed wall CPUs have already hit.

What I would like to see is one of the popular vidoe card manufacturers (like BFG or Sapphire) releasing a line of Mac compatible cards from ATI and NVidia that will cover the "extreme gamer" end of the line.

[dosers]

The Quadro 4500, on the PC anyway, is actually a BIT quiter. The 7800 GT doesn not have variable fan speed, while the 7800 GTX and Quadro does - making it a bit more efficient in fan control. Though it's possble Apple insisted on fan control on the Mac version of the card...

Cheers,
Dan

Well the 7800GT I have in my PC is certainly not silent! It's not massively noisy but as soon as there is a quieter cooler available (Arctic Cooling have one coming), I'll be replacing it. I would not be surprised if the Quadro card is worse.

[combatcolin]

I think we can take it as certain that the Mac version will.

And as Apple are paying, so i would also like a nice Apple logo'ed heat sink!

:cool:

[conradwt]

Hi, I decided to buy a quad 2.5 but switched back to the standard graphics with the plan to upgrade the graphics card when it's available. Thus, my configuration looks as follows:

2.5GHz Quad-core PowerPC G5
2GB DDR533 NON ECC 2X1GB
500GB Serial ATA-7200rpm
16x SD DL(DVD-R/CD-RW)
NVIDIA GF 6600 256 SDRAM
23" Cinema HD Display
AirPort Extreme + Bluetooth
Apple Keyboard & Mighty Mse
Mac OS X-Multilingual
Country Kit

Thus, my estimated ship went from Jan 11, 2006 to Dec 6, 2005. I feel that I made the best decision for me based on the current situation. Just need to start doing work now and being productive for my clients; cannot wait until Jan 11.

-Conrad

Just purchased the new dual core G5 2.0 Ghz with the 7800 Card with the 23" Display.:D Now I have to wait till Dec 28th!!! :eek: Why such a long wait (sorry if this has been answered somewhere else)?

1) Is there a shortage of 7800 cards available for the new G5?
2) Is the 7800 not very compatible with the new G5? Heard the G5 is already noisy, and that adding the card increases the overall fan noise. Is this true?
3) Heard that Apple is trying to deactivate one of the fans on the new G5 when the fan on the 7800 card is activated.

Hmm...

[Photorun]

Hi, I decided to buy a quad 2.5 but switched back to the standard graphics with the plan to upgrade the graphics card when it's available. Thus, my configuration looks as follows:

snip
NVIDIA GF 6600 256 SDRAM
snip

Thus, my estimated ship went from Jan 11, 2006 to Dec 6, 2005. I feel that I made the best decision for me based on the current situation. Just need to start doing work now and being productive for my clients; cannot wait until Jan 11.

-Conrad

Well it's not like you'll be let DOWN by the 6600!!! That's still a monster card. Unless you're trying to crank of crazy keyframes in Maya or heavy HEAVY duty FCP you're going to be just fine.

[conradwt]

Hi, it seems that this configuration is doable from reading the information contained in section (5) of the following page:

http://www.apple.com/powermac/pciexpress.html

-Conrad

Are you sure they will both fit in the Quad? Don't both these cards require the only available 16x PCI Express slot in this machine?
I agree it's better to get the machine sooner and add the 7800 later, which is what I'm doing. It's worth the (say) $200 not to have to wait an 4-6 additional weeks, in my opinion.

[conradwt]

Hi, after switching my order on Novemeber 19th, my order shipped today, November 25th. Now, that's a huge change from January 11th if I would
have kept the 7800 GT graphics card option.

-Conrad

Well it's not like you'll be let DOWN by the 6600!!! That's still a monster card. Unless you're trying to crank of crazy keyframes in Maya or heavy HEAVY duty FCP you're going to be just fine.