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GBR
May 5, 2013, 09:59 PM
So I had an opportunity come my way. I have owned every model of iPhone and truly love apple products, see my sig for my current equip. However lately I have felt, as many have, that iOS is getting stale and that apple needs to make a larger iPhone. Well, my job at work has slightly changed and a decent part of my new territory I will cover has terrible Verizon and AT&T service. So my employer gave me approval to get a US Cellular phone to use when I'm in this new territory. As you all know US Cellular does not have the iPhone so I was faced with getting an android phone. Well, long story short, I walked out with a brand new Samsung GS4. Now I'm running a iPhone 5 (jailbroken) and a GS4, comparison time!

It's been about a week, so I have had time to tweak android to meet my needs so I feel I have a good handle on it. First, I LOVE LOVE LOVE the 5" screen! Seriously, I have average sized hands and don't have too much trouble operating it with one hand (mostly thanks to the back button that's by the home button). Apple really really needs a larger screen, whenever I switch back to my iPhone 5 it feels tiny! Web surfing is 1000 time better than on the smaller iPhone screen and it still fits in my pocket so it's always with me. I had hoped my iPad mini would have accomplished this but it doesn't fit in any of my pockets so its still a chore to bring with me.

However, the positives stop there with the GS4. It definitely feels cheap, lots of plastic. And android still isn't nearly as smooth or intuitive as iOS, though its slightly better than I thought it would be. I actually come away with more respect for iOS than I had before. Granted, my iPhone is jailbroken so I have some functionality that isn't stock, but iOS is still significantly more "buttery" smooth than android. Plus, everything on my iPhone just works and makes sense. I don't like having to hunt down apps to download to make my phone do what I want (visual voicemail, a good keyboard). Plus I HATE bloatware, and this phone has apps on it I have no idea what they do and I cannot delete them. It reminds me of a Windows computer...

In the end this has reinforced my thought that apple NEEDS to build a iPhone with at minimum a 4.5" screen, but preferably a 5". iOS could use a makeover, and needs to add more functionality, especially a way to get more basic info without opening apps (widgets) but isn't in as much trouble as I may have thought software wise. Android is still definitely behind iOS but not too far behind, if Apple doesn't take Android seriously I could see that lead dwindle however Android will have a hard time getting close to the seamlessness of the Apple ecosystem.

Hope this was informative!



AppleDApp
May 5, 2013, 10:04 PM
Root your phone and get rid of the bloatware or get a Nexus 4 instead.

GBR
May 5, 2013, 10:10 PM
Root your phone and get rid of the bloatware or get a Nexus 4 instead.

I wanted a nexus 4 but US Cellular doesnt have it and they have the best service where I'm working. I may look into rooting

AppleDApp
May 5, 2013, 10:12 PM
I wanted a nexus 4 but US Cellular doesnt have it and they have the best service where I'm working. I may look into rooting

The nexus is only available from the play store AFAIK.

lordofthereef
May 5, 2013, 11:16 PM
It is very common for users who have never used vanilla android to state that android is a laggy os. IME this is not actually Android, but all the other "stuff" that has been added. In the case of the SGS4, touch wiz.

I second the notion of rooting the phone and throwing a vanilla rom (well, technically pure vanilla doesn't exist but it gets damn close) onto the phone. You will lose all of the additional (software) features that Samsung has added to the phone, but aside from that you will be set. Truth be told, I find vanilla android very comparable to iOS.

I hear the "intuitive" word being thrown out a lot, but I think people are often a bit biased here. Really, the only way to tell how intuitive on os is versus another is to put both operating systems in the hands of someone who has used neither. It's easy for me to say that android is less intuitive than iOS (or vice versa) if all I have ever used is iOS and then I pick up android for the first time (again, vice versa).

moldy lunchbox
May 6, 2013, 03:15 AM
I have both as well, not the S4 but the S3 which is same build but 4.8" and "slower", even though they both can quickly run any apps out there. I agree for the most part with you, except for web surfing i don't think the touch response is as sharp on the Galaxy's as it is for iPhone. I can't explain it technically, but its not as good when I browse a message board like here, I keep opening the thread above or below the one i want to read even though my finger seems dead on the link. Never really had that issue for iPhone. But otherwise, yeah not as smooth which really shows the engineering of iOS because my S3 has 2gb of RAM and a 1.5 ghz dualcore chip compared the 5's 1gb ram and slightly slower chip.

jimbo1mcm
May 6, 2013, 03:49 AM
For OP: I was in the same boat when I had my IP4. Went to the Galaxy S3 and liked the screen and the form was fine, but I missed the ease of IOS. I came back to the IP5 and am very happy with it.( I was tempted by the HTC One for about 18 hours, but sent it back. If IOS was on the HTC One, I would still have it.)

vikingjunior
May 6, 2013, 07:06 AM
The nexus 4 is extremely close to iphone 5 when it comes to smooth.

abz1981
May 6, 2013, 07:16 AM
I really do not think one can compare the GS4 with the IP5. IP5 is 2012's Iphone and GS4 is 2013's.

bmac4
May 6, 2013, 08:04 AM
I have a problem with people talking about making the switch then saying android is still not as smooth, but they are using a carrier based model with a skinned version of Android. Yes android on these phones will not be as smooth. I know they are easier to get, and cheaper than the nexus 4. But really you can say it is smoother because you tried a modified version of Android. Try vanilla android and see how smooth that is. I understand you can't cause you are using a CDMA network, but really you can't compare the two fairly.

Prototypical
May 6, 2013, 08:28 AM
I have a problem with people talking about making the switch then saying android is still not as smooth, but they are using a carrier based model with a skinned version of Android. Yes android on these phones will not be as smooth. I know they are easier to get, and cheaper than the nexus 4. But really you can say it is smoother because you tried a modified version of Android. Try vanilla android and see how smooth that is. I understand you can't cause you are using a CDMA network, but really you can't compare the two fairly.

While I don't disagree with you on the idea of unskinned Android = better, "vanilla" Android doesn't seem to be the norm when it comes to Android phones. Doesn't it seem odd/silly that you have to find a specific variety of the OS in order for it to function properly?

The only other solution is root - which may be an option for some, but for me, my employer's security policies prevent me from doing so. As a result, I need my phone to work flawlessly right out of the box. I'm not going to switch carriers (I'm on CDMA) just to find one of the unicorn varieties of Android that doesn't lag or stutter.

BlueGoldAce
May 6, 2013, 08:33 AM
Odd.

I have a galaxy note 2 and an i5. The note, stock, is ever bit as fast. The animations are just different. If I turn off the animations of the note 2, it will open the same app faster than when I use the i5. The difference is ever so slight, but when done next to each other at the same time... The note wins.

Your dislike of looking for apps is a product of your preference and not the operating system. The i5 has a great keyboard... But it really pales in comparison to SwiftKey on android. SwiftKey has better accuracy, prediction and a built on swipe feature.

bmac4
May 6, 2013, 08:47 AM
While I don't disagree with you on the idea of unskinned Android = better, "vanilla" Android doesn't seem to be the norm when it comes to Android phones. Doesn't it seem odd/silly that you have to find a specific variety of the OS in order for it to function properly?

The only other solution is root - which may be an option for some, but for me, my employer's security policies prevent me from doing so. As a result, I need my phone to work flawlessly right out of the box. I'm not going to switch carriers (I'm on CDMA) just to find one of the unicorn varieties of Android that doesn't lag or stutter.

Ok here is a way to look at it. Android is open sourced and anyone can use it. That is a good and bad thing. It means more android phones on the market, but over all worse quality. Apple on the other hand only has to worry about the iphone and the carriers that sell it.

All that being said the nexus line is not a unicorn. It is the same thing as iphone. A stock version of the OS. You are comparing two different things. The nexus is just as easy to get as the iphone. Go to the play store and buy it. Now for you that is not an option, but for the longest time it was not an option for the iphone either. Google tried the whole carrier thing with Verizon, and they will never do that again.

ugahairydawgs
May 6, 2013, 08:50 AM
The nexus is only available from the play store AFAIK.

T-Mobile has it as well.

Dontazemebro
May 6, 2013, 08:54 AM
Odd.

I have a galaxy note 2 and an i5. The note, stock, is ever bit as fast. The animations are just different. If I turn off the animations of the note 2, it will open the same app faster than when I use the i5. The difference is ever so slight, but when done next to each other at the same time... The note wins.

Your dislike of looking for apps is a product of your preference and not the operating system. The i5 has a great keyboard... But it really pales in comparison to SwiftKey on android. SwiftKey has better accuracy, prediction and a built on swipe feature.

I think it might just be the GS4. With all the new feature additions, touchwiz seems to have gotten heavier and more blotted with each iteration. Kinda weird since this used to be their one saving grace over HTC sense.

GBR
May 6, 2013, 10:23 AM
I guess its seems strange that the only 'true' android phone is one single model, the Nexus 4. When it is such a small percentage of the android install base. The vast majority of people using android are using galaxy phones or the cheap ones they get free with a new contract. Right now the real android players are the GS4, Note 2, and HTC One, nobody is talking about the Nexus 4 or the new upcoming Nexus outside of forums.

For my situation I had to get a phone with the best network where I'm at, and that led me to the GS4 which is the latest and greatest android phone (except for arguably the HTC One, but that wasn't an option for me). However as time progresses with mine I am feeling more and more like I used to with Windows computers before I switched to Macs. They all get altered and bloated by the device manufacturer and that just comes as a byproduct of the software companies open focus. I find myself still appreciating Apples closed focus, making the software and hardware work seamlessly together. Just my opinion, and we all have opinions, but my time with my GS4 has only made me appreciate my iPhone more (except for the screen size :D).

If android really wants to make the best phone out there they really need to take a look at their marketing, they should be marketing the crap out of the Nexus 4 if it's truly the best out there. They should focus on letting the public know that their Nexus device is the best Android experience available as it hasn't been altered by the phone manufacturer at all. They should also be making it compatible with CDMA and offering 4g compatibility. I guess even if I could have gotten the Nexus 4 on US Cellular the lack of 4g would have been a deal breaker for me.

walie
May 6, 2013, 11:18 AM
I guess its seems strange that the only 'true' android phone is one single model, the Nexus 4. When it is such a small percentage of the android install base. The vast majority of people using android are using galaxy phones or the cheap ones they get free with a new contract. Right now the real android players are the GS4, Note 2, and HTC One, nobody is talking about the Nexus 4 or the new upcoming Nexus outside of forums.

For my situation I had to get a phone with the best network where I'm at, and that led me to the GS4 which is the latest and greatest android phone (except for arguably the HTC One, but that wasn't an option for me). However as time progresses with mine I am feeling more and more like I used to with Windows computers before I switched to Macs. They all get altered and bloated by the device manufacturer and that just comes as a byproduct of the software companies open focus. I find myself still appreciating Apples closed focus, making the software and hardware work seamlessly together. Just my opinion, and we all have opinions, but my time with my GS4 has only made me appreciate my iPhone more (except for the screen size :D).

If android really wants to make the best phone out there they really need to take a look at their marketing, they should be marketing the crap out of the Nexus 4 if it's truly the best out there. They should focus on letting the public know that their Nexus device is the best Android experience available as it hasn't been altered by the phone manufacturer at all. They should also be making it compatible with CDMA and offering 4g compatibility. I guess even if I could have gotten the Nexus 4 on US Cellular the lack of 4g would have been a deal breaker for me.

"Android" is as much a company as "iPhone"

kiltedthrower
May 6, 2013, 12:11 PM
I guess my definition of intuitive is different. It takes me longer to navigate around on an iPhone than it does an Android based device. But out of the box for normal functions, both phones have a phone and messaging function that works the same. Once email accounts are setup, click on the icon and you go to your email. And then if you click and drag your icons into a folder, you have your short cuts set up.

GBR
May 6, 2013, 12:21 PM
"Android" is as much a company as "iPhone"

Sorry, I'm an idiot. Google, not Android. I'm usually the one criticizing for those kinds of mixups...

bmac4
May 6, 2013, 12:35 PM
I guess its seems strange that the only 'true' android phone is one single model, the Nexus 4. When it is such a small percentage of the android install base. The vast majority of people using android are using galaxy phones or the cheap ones they get free with a new contract. Right now the real android players are the GS4, Note 2, and HTC One, nobody is talking about the Nexus 4 or the new upcoming Nexus outside of forums.

For my situation I had to get a phone with the best network where I'm at, and that led me to the GS4 which is the latest and greatest android phone (except for arguably the HTC One, but that wasn't an option for me). However as time progresses with mine I am feeling more and more like I used to with Windows computers before I switched to Macs. They all get altered and bloated by the device manufacturer and that just comes as a byproduct of the software companies open focus. I find myself still appreciating Apples closed focus, making the software and hardware work seamlessly together. Just my opinion, and we all have opinions, but my time with my GS4 has only made me appreciate my iPhone more (except for the screen size :D).

If android really wants to make the best phone out there they really need to take a look at their marketing, they should be marketing the crap out of the Nexus 4 if it's truly the best out there. They should focus on letting the public know that their Nexus device is the best Android experience available as it hasn't been altered by the phone manufacturer at all. They should also be making it compatible with CDMA and offering 4g compatibility. I guess even if I could have gotten the Nexus 4 on US Cellular the lack of 4g would have been a deal breaker for me.

First of all GSM is much easier to use as a world phone. CDMA is really only used here in America. They do offer a nexus on Verizon, but again Verizon wanted to have a say in updates and such, so Google gave up. It was only about 1 1/2 ago that Apple offered a CDMA version. Again it really is only used in America, so they want to go after what will get the most people.

I would agree that Google could do a better job of marketing the nexus 4. I just think you should know just a bit more before you start making broad statements about Android being not as smooth. The phone you are using is not, but that does not mean all android phones act the same. I have the Note 2 and I experience no lag all. And on the side of the S4 being one of the faces of android. That is only because Samsung has done that. They market the phone really hard. Google has nothing to do with the S4 being one of the phone people associate with android.

chagla
May 6, 2013, 12:39 PM
... I don't like having to hunt down apps to download to make my phone do what I want (visual voicemail, a good keyboard). Plus I HATE bloatware, and this phone has apps on it I have no idea what they do and I cannot delete them. It reminds me of a Windows computer...

In the end this has reinforced my thought that apple NEEDS to build a iPhone with at minimum a 4.5" screen, but preferably a 5". iOS could use a makeover, and needs to add more functionality, especially a way to get more basic info without opening apps (widgets) but isn't in as much trouble as I may have thought software wise. Android is still definitely behind iOS but not too far behind, if Apple doesn't take Android seriously I could see that lead dwindle however Android will have a hard time getting close to the seamlessness of the Apple ecosystem.

Hope this was informative!

I believe if you get a 'branded' S4, it should have the visual voicemail app pre-installed. not sure why you have to hunt for one. also regarding keyboard, the built-in stock keyboard is pretty good but again if you arent' happy with it, take few minutes to try out alternative keyboards - swype, swiftkey ranks very highly. you can keep writing using one finger without lifting.

regarding bloatware, again only on branded devices. you should blame your telco company for that. good thing on newer version of android, you can "disable" them. go to settings > applications, tap on the app and choose the "disable" button.

can you cite specific examples when you say android is definitely behind ios.

GBR
May 6, 2013, 01:56 PM
I believe if you get a 'branded' S4, it should have the visual voicemail app pre-installed. not sure why you have to hunt for one. also regarding keyboard, the built-in stock keyboard is pretty good but again if you arent' happy with it, take few minutes to try out alternative keyboards - swype, swiftkey ranks very highly. you can keep writing using one finger without lifting.

regarding bloatware, again only on branded devices. you should blame your telco company for that. good thing on newer version of android, you can "disable" them. go to settings > applications, tap on the app and choose the "disable" button.

can you cite specific examples when you say android is definitely behind ios.

I probably have taken this discussion to broad at this point. My original intent was just to share my opinion of the GS4 vs iPhone 5 now that I am utilizing both. Everyone has their own opinions. I cannot speak for other versions of Android on different phones as I really only have experience with this GS4.

My main complaint with the version of Android running on my GS4 is the software is not nearly as smooth as my iPhone. Especially when navigating web pages. My iPhone zooms and moves smoothly while my GS4 does tend to lag. I also don't like the bloatware (which I understand isn't really Google's fault). While I can appreciate the opportunity to customize I do wish Google would have maybe exercised a little more control over their software and not allow these phone manufacturers to mess with it too much, but I understand that would go against their open platform ideals.

I guess in the end this has proven to me that for ME the iPhone 5 is still the best, that does not apply to everyone. I appreciate how it 'just works' and to me is more intuitive. There seems to be more parity in the UI throughout iOS and apps downloaded from the App Store. We can argue all day over 'open' vs 'closed' but I can definitely tell a difference between each now that I have them both.

spinedoc77
May 7, 2013, 10:09 AM
So I had an opportunity come my way. I have owned every model of iPhone and truly love apple products, see my sig for my current equip. However lately I have felt, as many have, that iOS is getting stale and that apple needs to make a larger iPhone. Well, my job at work has slightly changed and a decent part of my new territory I will cover has terrible Verizon and AT&T service. So my employer gave me approval to get a US Cellular phone to use when I'm in this new territory. As you all know US Cellular does not have the iPhone so I was faced with getting an android phone. Well, long story short, I walked out with a brand new Samsung GS4. Now I'm running a iPhone 5 (jailbroken) and a GS4, comparison time!

It's been about a week, so I have had time to tweak android to meet my needs so I feel I have a good handle on it. First, I LOVE LOVE LOVE the 5" screen! Seriously, I have average sized hands and don't have too much trouble operating it with one hand (mostly thanks to the back button that's by the home button). Apple really really needs a larger screen, whenever I switch back to my iPhone 5 it feels tiny! Web surfing is 1000 time better than on the smaller iPhone screen and it still fits in my pocket so it's always with me. I had hoped my iPad mini would have accomplished this but it doesn't fit in any of my pockets so its still a chore to bring with me.

However, the positives stop there with the GS4. It definitely feels cheap, lots of plastic. And android still isn't nearly as smooth or intuitive as iOS, though its slightly better than I thought it would be. I actually come away with more respect for iOS than I had before. Granted, my iPhone is jailbroken so I have some functionality that isn't stock, but iOS is still significantly more "buttery" smooth than android. Plus, everything on my iPhone just works and makes sense. I don't like having to hunt down apps to download to make my phone do what I want (visual voicemail, a good keyboard). Plus I HATE bloatware, and this phone has apps on it I have no idea what they do and I cannot delete them. It reminds me of a Windows computer...

In the end this has reinforced my thought that apple NEEDS to build a iPhone with at minimum a 4.5" screen, but preferably a 5". iOS could use a makeover, and needs to add more functionality, especially a way to get more basic info without opening apps (widgets) but isn't in as much trouble as I may have thought software wise. Android is still definitely behind iOS but not too far behind, if Apple doesn't take Android seriously I could see that lead dwindle however Android will have a hard time getting close to the seamlessness of the Apple ecosystem.

Hope this was informative!

I'm in pretty much agreement with what you said, of course this is for MY needs. I used a Note 2 for about 3 months and I liked it a ton, but for several reasons I just recently went back to an iphone 5.

Lag: Nothing earth shattering and nothing that kept me from any functionality, but just annoying in a $600+ phone. I know others keep saying vanilla android is better, my N7 had lag as well, but once again it's not a deal breaker, just something to be annoyed at and go on the boards and complain about even though it really didn't affect me at all.

Functionality: Android in some areas has awesome functionality, in particular live widgets are just insanely useful. But in some very very basic areas it has very bad functionality IMO. Messaging is not great, in particular group messaging, that was a big deal breaker for me. Getting stuff done hands free was a deal breaker, in particular Google Now's penchant for doing an internet search for the commands you issue to it. When I say "call Mario" I don't want an internet search for super mario brothers. This is one thing the iphone gets pretty damn near perfect and I didn't realize how much I missed it until I went back. Stupid things, like having the navigation voice turn off when you are in a phone call, or having the bluetooth headset button turn on google now, etc. etc etc I could make a fairly long list.

Hardware: Yeah I like aesthetics, sue me. I like how a metallic feeling phone feels in the hand. The note 2, and the galaxy S4 had that plastic feeling. Well built mind you, VERY well build and I'm not complaining, it's simply a matter of aesthetics. The HTC One does have those aesthetics though, but the OS has the same flaws as the others.

I think if Apple releases a larger screen iphone with the same form factor, maybe a tiny bit thinner, with that nice premium watch feel and they successfully revamp iOS7 the floodgates are going to open up again for them. Android is awesome, but it just seems that Google and OEM's are piling on the "features" that no one really uses instead of ultra polishing the basic features like Apple does.

Tsuchiya
May 7, 2013, 05:13 PM
Apple does have a very focused approach to the smartphone which I appreciate more now that I've had a chance to use the S4 for a while.

Also I miss the industrial solid feeling the iPhone has. I want to get a case just so I don't have to feel that slippery back :-/

mib1800
May 7, 2013, 11:32 PM
... but it just seems that Google and OEM's are piling on the "features" that no one really uses instead of ultra polishing the basic features like Apple does.

What are these "polished" basic features of Iphone?
My experience is that even basic features of iphone require workarounds for them to be effective. Basic features are way worse than most smartphones out there. Most glaring is the email attachment and limited support of file types. For phone, limited log, no contact picture in log/contact list, no 3G video call. Limited BT/wifi/usb - cannot transfer files easily in/out of phone. There are just so many things missing in iOS.

spinedoc77
May 8, 2013, 05:04 AM
What are these "polished" basic features of Iphone?
My experience is that even basic features of iphone require workarounds for them to be effective. Basic features are way worse than most smartphones out there. Most glaring is the email attachment and limited support of file types. For phone, limited log, no contact picture in log/contact list, no 3G video call. Limited BT/wifi/usb - cannot transfer files easily in/out of phone. There are just so many things missing in iOS.

Some of them I discussed in the post you quoted. Functionality is in the eye of the beholder though, I don't need any of the features you mentioned, but maybe you don't need any of the features I mentioned either.

spinedoc77
May 8, 2013, 05:20 PM
agreed, why'd someone compare the latest and the most powerful device to a year old device:confused:

Why wouldn't they? They are each the latest flagship of their respective company.

Irishman
May 8, 2013, 06:28 PM
I have a problem with people talking about making the switch then saying android is still not as smooth, but they are using a carrier based model with a skinned version of Android. Yes android on these phones will not be as smooth. I know they are easier to get, and cheaper than the nexus 4. But really you can say it is smoother because you tried a modified version of Android. Try vanilla android and see how smooth that is. I understand you can't cause you are using a CDMA network, but really you can't compare the two fairly.

He can only compare what he can experience.

bmac4
May 8, 2013, 06:40 PM
He can only compare what he can experience.

Yes, but he is making a board statement about android. He has only tried one phone, but he says android as a whole is still not as smooth. What if I said I tried the iPhone 5, but it was jailbroken. I then said iOS is not as smooth as my nexus 4, and can have some lag. Would that be fair to iOS? I am using a modified version of iOS, but that is the only experience I have with iOS. There would be posters trashing me for saying this. Everyone one would be saying "you used a jailbroken iPhone. That is not pure iOS." How is this any different?

aneftp
May 8, 2013, 07:19 PM
What are these "polished" basic features of Iphone?
My experience is that even basic features of iphone require workarounds for them to be effective. Basic features are way worse than most smartphones out there. Most glaring is the email attachment and limited support of file types. For phone, limited log, no contact picture in log/contact list, no 3G video call. Limited BT/wifi/usb - cannot transfer files easily in/out of phone. There are just so many things missing in iOS.

And may I ask which 3G video calling is missing from the iPhone?
Only AT$T plays games with FaceTime limits over 3G/4g. The other carriers do not limit cellular over FaceTime. It's the carrier and not the iOS.

But Android does not have any universal FaceTime like video calling. It's a patch work. Like Tango. But Tango is also available on iOS also and over cellular as well.

mib1800
May 8, 2013, 09:09 PM
Some of them I discussed in the post you quoted. Functionality is in the eye of the beholder though, I don't need any of the features you mentioned, but maybe you don't need any of the features I mentioned either.

I am refering to your "basic features are more polished on iphone" statement. So,
-How can not having thumbnail contact pictures in log/contact list more polished than one that has?
-How can a dialpad that does not do predictive contact matching more polished than one that does?
-How can exiting an app to go to Settings and then re-opening the app more polished than having Settings in the app?
-How can a keyboard that shows you one predicted word more polished than one that shows you all possible words?
-How is that only few type of file that can be attached to email more polished than one that supports any file type?
etc etc.

Maybe "bare and dumb basic features" is a better description of iphone basic features.

And may I ask which 3G video calling is missing from the iPhone?
Only AT$T plays games with FaceTime limits over 3G/4g. The other carriers do not limit cellular over FaceTime. It's the carrier and not the iOS.

But Android does not have any universal FaceTime like video calling. It's a patch work. Like Tango. But Tango is also available on iOS also and over cellular as well.

I am refering to cellular-based 3G video call (not IP-based video chat) which you can make to any 3G-enabled handsets.

GBR
May 8, 2013, 09:24 PM
Yes, but he is making a board statement about android. He has only tried one phone, but he says android as a whole is still not as smooth. What if I said I tried the iPhone 5, but it was jailbroken. I then said iOS is not as smooth as my nexus 4, and can have some lag. Would that be fair to iOS? I am using a modified version of iOS, but that is the only experience I have with iOS. There would be posters trashing me for saying this. Everyone one would be saying "you used a jailbroken iPhone. That is not pure iOS." How is this any different?

If you read my posts I state that this not intended to be a broad android review. It's my comparison between a flagship android phone and the current iPhone. IMHO nobody in today's world should ship an expensive 'flagship' phone that lags. If its Samsungs fault (which everyone agrees it is) they should be ashamed. However I do put some blame on Google for not throwing around a little of their weight and making sure their software isn't bogged down by these carriers.

Btw, my iPhone 5 is jailbroken and it is still smoother than my GS4.

maxosx
May 8, 2013, 09:26 PM
Why Compare? I own both, no problem.

Viva Le Difference!

bmac4
May 8, 2013, 10:15 PM
If you read my posts I state that this not intended to be a broad android review. It's my comparison between a flagship android phone and the current iPhone. IMHO nobody in today's world should ship an expensive 'flagship' phone that lags. If its Samsungs fault (which everyone agrees it is) they should be ashamed. However I do put some blame on Google for not throwing around a little of their weight and making sure their software isn't bogged down by these carriers.

Btw, my iPhone 5 is jailbroken and it is still smoother than my GS4.

What is Google going to do? They made there OS open, and give companies like Samsung the right to do what they want. I know you said you did not want to make this a board statement of android, but your comments suggested otherwise. I am just trying to make it clear that while the S4 may have lag. My note 2 and nexus 4 are just as smooth as my iPhone 5. I experienced more lag when I had my iPhone 5 jail broken then I ever have with my note 2 and nexus 4.

troutspinner
May 9, 2013, 09:03 AM
Have you received the update for the S4 yet? If you are experiencing lag issues, it should fix it. Mine is just as smooth as my iPhone now.

I do agree that Apple needs to increase their screen size. Had that been something in the works for the next release and a camera as good as the S4, I would not have jumped ship. Though I have to give lots of credit to Samsung as they are innovating beyond what Apple is currently offering. A new UI in the next release isn't going to do it for Apple, they need to bring new innovation to the table.

troutspinner

MacRumorUser
May 9, 2013, 09:33 AM
What is Google going to do? They made there OS open, and give companies like Samsung the right to do what they want. I know you said you did not want to make this a board statement of android, but your comments suggested otherwise. I am just trying to make it clear that while the S4 may have lag. My note 2 and nexus 4 are just as smooth as my iPhone 5. I experienced more lag when I had my iPhone 5 jail broken then I ever have with my note 2 and nexus 4.

They could insist that manufacturers give users the ability to choose from standard AOKP or manufacturers version of the os. Most android phones are open only to the manufacturer - not the consumer. They need to reverse this in order for that 'openess' to have any real world merit.

Allowing manufacturers and carriers to decide whether a device is bootloader locked or s-off restricted is counter to any openness they tout.

spinedoc77
May 9, 2013, 09:47 AM
I am refering to your "basic features are more polished on iphone" statement. So,
-How can not having thumbnail contact pictures in log/contact list more polished than one that has?
-How can a dialpad that does not do predictive contact matching more polished than one that does?
-How can exiting an app to go to Settings and then re-opening the app more polished than having Settings in the app?
-How can a keyboard that shows you one predicted word more polished than one that shows you all possible words?
-How is that only few type of file that can be attached to email more polished than one that supports any file type?
etc etc.

Maybe "bare and dumb basic features" is a better description of iphone basic features.



I am refering to cellular-based 3G video call (not IP-based video chat) which you can make to any 3G-enabled handsets.

-How can a phone not have viable group messaging?
-How useful is a voice search that gives you internet search results instead of calling a contact or navigating to a contact?
-How can a phone not shut off the navigation voice while you are in a phone call?

I can add to that list, but all it would prove is that MY needs are different than your needs, not that either phone was superior or inferior. It's when we try to prove superiority is when we look the most ignorant, when in reality it's just different folks have different needs. I needed group messaging to work perfectly, it does in iOS. I needed navigation to work perfectly, it does in iOS. I needed my voice assistant to work perfectly, it does in iOS. None of those items work very well FOR MY NEEDS on Android.

As for your list, my main point was I don't need many of those things:
-contact pictures don't do me any good as I recognize contacts by their name and don't sit there and pick them out by face.
-Predictive matching on the dialpad is something I never had a use for, but I do agree that iOS should have it, no argument there.
-Settings on iOS is a pain to use, no argument there, but I'm so rarely in settings that it's not an issue, still it's not an excuse, settings on android are very nice.
-Keyboard: I find iOS far better except for the exclusion of swype, iOS is much more accurate with my fat fingers. As for showing all the predicted words that would slow me down a ton, sitting there picking the right word when I could just type it out as fast, especially with how powerful iOS mistake recognition is, but maybe this is needed for how inaccurate the android keyboard is.

Once again our needs are different. There is a lot in Android I highly prefer over iOS as well, live widgets for example. I am not firmly in Apple's camp, far from it, but for just having a basic no nonsense phone which makes calls, texts messages, and gives me navigation iOS works far far better for me and I'd rather have that.

bmac4
May 9, 2013, 10:06 AM
They could insist that manufacturers give users the ability to choose from standard AOKP or manufacturers version of the os. Most android phones are open only to the manufacturer - not the consumer. They need to reverse this in order for that 'openess' to have any real world merit.

Allowing manufacturers and carriers to decide whether a device is bootloader locked or s-off restricted is counter to any openness they tout.

Well Google is about giving people choices. Make Samsung, and HTC give us a choice whether we wanted stock or a skinned version would go against that. Also look at the HTC First. It has pretty much stock android on it, but it will not get updated like the nexus lime of phones. You would have stock, but it would not be up to date. Then everyone would start to complain about that too.

If Google wants a phone on a carrier they have to put carrier apps on it. The only reason Apple gets away with this is because they can guarantee huge sales. Nexus devices or any other android for that matter can't do that, so against it is the same old game. I know people want pure google, but going through a carrier just want let it happen.

rmhop81
May 9, 2013, 12:12 PM
I have a problem with people talking about making the switch then saying android is still not as smooth, but they are using a carrier based model with a skinned version of Android. Yes android on these phones will not be as smooth. I know they are easier to get, and cheaper than the nexus 4. But really you can say it is smoother because you tried a modified version of Android. Try vanilla android and see how smooth that is. I understand you can't cause you are using a CDMA network, but really you can't compare the two fairly.

but that is how the devices are sold...so it's a fair comparison. How can u compare modified versions of Android with stock iOS...why not compare to jailbroken etc? Most people just want to buy a phone and start using it...not having to modify everything bc it's not smooth in the first place.

bmac4
May 9, 2013, 12:34 PM
but that is how the devices are sold...so it's a fair comparison. How can u compare modified versions of Android with stock iOS...why not compare to jailbroken etc? Most people just want to buy a phone and start using it...not having to modify everything bc it's not smooth in the first place.

Yea most people do. But when you are buying an android phone that is not a nexus you are not getting a stock android you are getting a modified version. You can claim that is what they sell, but Google also sells the nexus phones that are every easy to get. I understand that these are easy to get your hands on, but you can not compare them to iphones unless you are talking about a modified version of the iPhone too.

sentinelsx
May 9, 2013, 12:36 PM
What is Google going to do? They made there OS open, and give companies like Samsung the right to do what they want. I know you said you did not want to make this a board statement of android, but your comments suggested otherwise. I am just trying to make it clear that while the S4 may have lag. My note 2 and nexus 4 are just as smooth as my iPhone 5. I experienced more lag when I had my iPhone 5 jail broken then I ever have with my note 2 and nexus 4.

Not open, open source.

To be honest though, i would take "open" over "open source" as android could be much more robust AND flexible as it is now at the same time. Open source stuff means you just have to pray that whoever takes that stuff to accompany their products, they can do a great to integrate the two. And android OEMs aren't really great at that IMO.

Hence why i would love a future where moto would become an exclusive nexus manufacturer and google will finally start making highend, robust android phones which are integrated tightly making it an amazing experience compared to the rest. They will probably fix all those kinks and add missing functionality faster too than leaving it to the OEMs to implement solutions in their skins.

bmac4
May 9, 2013, 12:46 PM
Not open, open source.

To be honest though, i would take "open" over "open source" as android could be much more robust AND flexible as it is now at the same time. Open source stuff means you just have to pray that whoever takes that stuff to accompany their products, they can do a great to integrate the two. And android OEMs aren't really great at that IMO.

Hence why i would love a future where moto would become an exclusive nexus manufacturer and google will finally start making highend, robust android phones which are integrated tightly making it an amazing experience compared to the rest. They will probably fix all those kinks and add missing functionality faster too than leaving it to the OEMs to implement solutions in their skins.

Yep again this is why I say you can compare and iPhone in smoothness to a skinned android. It is not Apples to Apples. No pun intended.

spinedoc77
May 9, 2013, 03:00 PM
Yep again this is why I say you can compare and iPhone in smoothness to a skinned android. It is not Apples to Apples. No pun intended.

The manufacturer skinned version is what consumers get, so it's a valid comparison, I don't think it's akin to having a jailbroken iphone at all. The manufacturer skin is tested, supported and released by the manufacturer, while a jailbreak is basically a security hack by people who have nothing to do with the manufacturer. Even with that consideration there are still people who say that vanilla Android lags a little bit, myself included.

bmac4
May 9, 2013, 03:08 PM
The manufacturer skinned version is what consumers get, so it's a valid comparison, I don't think it's akin to having a jailbroken iphone at all. The manufacturer skin is tested, supported and released by the manufacturer, while a jailbreak is basically a security hack by people who have nothing to do with the manufacturer. Even with that consideration there are still people who say that vanilla Android lags a little bit, myself included.

Well you can say whatever you want. You guys can keep making the comparisons that fit your argument that iOS is smoother. A skinned version while being what most people will go into a carrier and buy is not the same as someone going and buying an iPhone. Yes they are both sold by the carrier, and they both come with the contract. The difference is the iPhone is just iOS. The S4 is android plus touchwiz. The HTC one is android plus sense. How are those equal? The nexus 4 is just android, and is just as smooth as my iPhone 5. You claim vanilla android is still not as smooth. Where did you get that from? Have you used a nexus phone?


While skinned android is completely OK with google. That does not mean it is not a modified version of android. Android is open sourced so Samsung and who ever else wants to make an android can do so. Apple on the other hand is closed sourced, so the only way to modify it is jailbreaking. If you are going to compare an iPhone to a skinned android you have to even playing field. The only way to do that is going with a jailbroken iPhone. I don't agree with doing that, but also don't agree that you can compare iOS to skinned android.

The Game 161
May 9, 2013, 03:10 PM
Been an iphone user for years but after two days of the galaxy s4 and I'm loving it.. Don't see myself ever going back

YourAvgUser
May 9, 2013, 04:28 PM
Well you can say whatever you want. You guys can keep making the comparisons that fit your argument that iOS is smoother. A skinned version while being what most people will go into a carrier and buy is not the same as someone going and buying an iPhone. Yes they are both sold by the carrier, and they both come with the contract. The difference is the iPhone is just iOS. The S4 is android plus touchwiz. The HTC one is android plus sense. How are those equal? The nexus 4 is just android, and is just as smooth as my iPhone 5. You claim vanilla android is still not as smooth. Where did you get that from? Have you used a nexus phone?


While skinned android is completely OK with google. That does not mean it is not a modified version of android. Android is open sourced so Samsung and who ever else wants to make an android can do so. Apple on the other hand is closed sourced, so the only way to modify it is jailbreaking. If you are going to compare an iPhone to a skinned android you have to even playing field. The only way to do that is going with a jailbroken iPhone. I don't agree with doing that, but also don't agree that you can compare iOS to skinned android.

I don't get it, so Touchwiz and Sense are not actually Android, so they cannot be judged against iOS? And if we're talking about pure Android, do you know how many devices in the Android universe run pure 4.2.2? Not many.

At the end of the day, Touchwiz is Android. Sense is Android. Maybe Google doesn't deserve most of the blame if either interface shows any lag, but let's not pretend that Samsung and HTC don't develop their own software based on the AOSP. Because you can't just switch off either's interface, makes them valid comparisons to iOS.

bmac4
May 9, 2013, 04:36 PM
I don't get it, so Touchwiz and Sense are not actually Android, so they cannot be judged against iOS? And if we're talking about pure Android, do you know how many devices in the Android universe run pure 4.2.2? Not many.

At the end of the day, Touchwiz is Android. Sense is ios. Maybe Google doesn't deserve most of the blame if either interface shows any lag, but let's not pretend that Samsung and HTC don't develop their own software based on the AOSP. Because you can't just switch off either's interface, makes them valid comparisons to iOS.

So those phone have to run a custom skin on top of the OS that is running and that make it equal to an iPhone just running android? How is that? Yes both sense and touchwiz are a part of android in terms of running on the phone, but Google has nothing to do with either. How can we compare things that are not equal? The S4 and HTC One are an OS plus a skin. I just don't see how that is equal to just running ios. I will compare the nexus 4 and the iPhone 5 all day long cause they both run the vanilla OS for each.

mib1800
May 9, 2013, 09:14 PM
-How can a phone not have viable group messaging?

Are you talking about iMessage group chat? Or is it about sending SMS to a predefined group which most phone can do? You do know iMessage is just limited to Apple platform so it is not ideal either. Something like Whatsapp is more ideal since it is not platform specific.

I prefer my SMS to be separated from IM. When I send SMS usually it is important and i want guaranteed delivery without delay. iMessage can't since it depends on Apple server and internet connection. When I want to chit-chat I switch to Whatsapp which everyone I know have (no matter which phone they are using).



-How useful is a voice search that gives you internet search results instead of calling a contact or navigating to a contact?

No issue using google now or s-voice to call. One great thing with google is that you can download the voice module to local storage. This allows you to use voice-to-text even if no internet connection. And it is so much faster than iphone voice module.



-How can a phone not shut off the navigation voice while you are in a phone call?


The one I am using n-drive have no such issue. Are you refering to Google Nav?


As for your list, my main point was I don't need many of those things:
-contact pictures don't do me any good as I recognize contacts by their name and don't sit there and pick them out by face.
-Predictive matching on the dialpad is something I never had a use for, but I do agree that iOS should have it, no argument there.
-Settings on iOS is a pain to use, no argument there, but I'm so rarely in settings that it's not an issue, still it's not an excuse, settings on android are very nice.


So you do agree that your statement "iphone basic features are more polished" is inaccurate. :p


-Keyboard: I find iOS far better except for the exclusion of swype, iOS is much more accurate with my fat fingers. As for showing all the predicted words that would slow me down a ton, sitting there picking the right word when I could just type it out as fast, especially with how powerful iOS mistake recognition is, but maybe this is needed for how inaccurate the android keyboard is.


I dont agree about you saying Android keyboard is "inaccurate". Even if it is less accurate, it still gives you matching words around the keys you typed and one of those words will likely match the one you want. You just tap the word (replaces tapping the spacebar) to select the word - no extra effort needed. At least you dont have to keep typing and typing and hope that the right word will come out like in iphone keyboard.

spinedoc77
May 9, 2013, 09:31 PM
Well you can say whatever you want. You guys can keep making the comparisons that fit your argument that iOS is smoother. A skinned version while being what most people will go into a carrier and buy is not the same as someone going and buying an iPhone. Yes they are both sold by the carrier, and they both come with the contract. The difference is the iPhone is just iOS. The S4 is android plus touchwiz. The HTC one is android plus sense. How are those equal? The nexus 4 is just android, and is just as smooth as my iPhone 5. You claim vanilla android is still not as smooth. Where did you get that from? Have you used a nexus phone?


While skinned android is completely OK with google. That does not mean it is not a modified version of android. Android is open sourced so Samsung and who ever else wants to make an android can do so. Apple on the other hand is closed sourced, so the only way to modify it is jailbreaking. If you are going to compare an iPhone to a skinned android you have to even playing field. The only way to do that is going with a jailbroken iPhone. I don't agree with doing that, but also don't agree that you can compare iOS to skinned android.

They are equal because its what the consumer buys in the store. The vast majority of consumers have no idea what vanilla android means, and if they did probably don't care. If the majority, by far, of android phones sold are skinned versions then the public perception will be that they lag. I understand and appreciate your point, but don't think it matters much in the bigger sense of things. By the same token a jailbroken phone is a hack thru and thru that someone specifically looks for to alter what the manufacturer gave you, a hack that is far from mainstream and certainly not sold in stores or condoned by Apple.

I think its just semantics though, I do see what you mean.

bmac4
May 9, 2013, 10:02 PM
They are equal because its what the consumer buys in the store. The vast majority of consumers have no idea what vanilla android means, and if they did probably don't care. If the majority, by far, of android phones sold are skinned versions then the public perception will be that they lag. I understand and appreciate your point, but don't think it matters much in the bigger sense of things. By the same token a jailbroken phone is a hack thru and thru that someone specifically looks for to alter what the manufacturer gave you, a hack that is far from mainstream and certainly not sold in stores or condoned by Apple.

I think its just semantics though, I do see what you mean.

I mean I understand that most consumers are going to buy skinned android phones. That does not make android a system as a whole that lags. What should be said is Touchwiz lags not android. That is fine it you want say android has lag and is not as smooth, but just because a Samsung creates a phone with a ton of features that slow down android does not mean android is slow.

In those same carrier stores they also have iPhone 4's. Does that mean we need to compare them too? Cause if we did that then well then that iPhone really can't keep up.

TheRealCBONE
May 9, 2013, 11:01 PM
-
-Keyboard: I find iOS far better except for the exclusion of swype, iOS is much more accurate with my fat fingers. As for showing all the predicted words that would slow me down a ton, sitting there picking the right word when I could just type it out as fast, especially with how powerful iOS mistake recognition is, but maybe this is needed for how inaccurate the android keyboard is.



iOS has the worst predictive keyboard in existence. Apple should be ashamed that it's still so terrible. Swiftkey before you teach it from your texts, facebook, twitter or whatever is spooky. Afterwards, it's just about at "Holy crap! I sent an email to my wife nearly entirely with the spacebar!" Kii is almost as good, but not quite.

One of the other things that I've had forever on android that made me want to throw my iphone was the inability to setup 1-touch direct call/text/email for contacts on the home screen. Not to mention having no real control over the home screen. Never understood the allure of home screens that look like my mom's XP desktop from a zillion years ago, all bloated up with shortcuts for everything ever.

The Game 161
May 10, 2013, 12:00 AM
I love swift key so glad I downloaded it

spinedoc77
May 10, 2013, 09:29 AM
iOS has the worst predictive keyboard in existence. Apple should be ashamed that it's still so terrible. Swiftkey before you teach it from your texts, facebook, twitter or whatever is spooky. Afterwards, it's just about at "Holy crap! I sent an email to my wife nearly entirely with the spacebar!" Kii is almost as good, but not quite.

One of the other things that I've had forever on android that made me want to throw my iphone was the inability to setup 1-touch direct call/text/email for contacts on the home screen. Not to mention having no real control over the home screen. Never understood the allure of home screens that look like my mom's XP desktop from a zillion years ago, all bloated up with shortcuts for everything ever.

Apple's keyboard has always been pretty good for me, not perfect by any means, but pretty good. I had a lot of trouble with Android and predictability, but then again I'm coming from years of iOS and comparing it to 3 months with the Android keyboard, maybe 3 months wasn't enough for it to learn my habits. But besides the word prediction I just found myself making a ton of mistakes on the android keyboard, I'm not really sure why but I could never type very fast on it. With iOS for some reason I can fly on it and don't make many mistakes.

With that said, I did fall in love with swype, pretty incredible and powerful and iOS really really needs to license them. If you started a word wrong with swype y ou were kind of screwed though, you just had to make sure you started the word correctly.

In the end though I'm missing keyboard features less and less these days as I'm using the voice recognition more and more for things like text messaging, etc. It's pretty incredible on both iOS and Android.

----------

I mean I understand that most consumers are going to buy skinned android phones. That does not make android a system as a whole that lags. What should be said is Touchwiz lags not android. That is fine it you want say android has lag and is not as smooth, but just because a Samsung creates a phone with a ton of features that slow down android does not mean android is slow.

In those same carrier stores they also have iPhone 4's. Does that mean we need to compare them too? Cause if we did that then well then that iPhone really can't keep up.

Yeah I hear you. It's like saying that Windows is slow after you install programs on it, versus when it's a fresh installation. Android was kind of the same, Touchwiz ran almost flawlessly when I first got the phone, but as I used it and installed programs the lag began to creep up, same with my Nexus 7. Still, consumers won't know the difference and will blame the OS no matter what.

Fanaticalism
May 10, 2013, 09:57 AM
I guess my definition of intuitive is different. It takes me longer to navigate around on an iPhone than it does an Android based device. But out of the box for normal functions, both phones have a phone and messaging function that works the same. Once email accounts are setup, click on the icon and you go to your email. And then if you click and drag your icons into a folder, you have your short cuts set up.

This was the difference for me, as someone who has every iPhone and still have the i5. I can truly customize Android to conform to my needs.

As far as lag, all I had to do was root my S4 and freeze all the bloatware, buttery smooth now. Can't wait for the unlock to remove it entirely.

bmac4
May 10, 2013, 10:17 AM
Apple's keyboard has always been pretty good for me, not perfect by any means, but pretty good. I had a lot of trouble with Android and predictability, but then again I'm coming from years of iOS and comparing it to 3 months with the Android keyboard, maybe 3 months wasn't enough for it to learn my habits. But besides the word prediction I just found myself making a ton of mistakes on the android keyboard, I'm not really sure why but I could never type very fast on it. With iOS for some reason I can fly on it and don't make many mistakes.

With that said, I did fall in love with swype, pretty incredible and powerful and iOS really really needs to license them. If you started a word wrong with swype y ou were kind of screwed though, you just had to make sure you started the word correctly.

In the end though I'm missing keyboard features less and less these days as I'm using the voice recognition more and more for things like text messaging, etc. It's pretty incredible on both iOS and Android.

----------



Yeah I hear you. It's like saying that Windows is slow after you install programs on it, versus when it's a fresh installation. Android was kind of the same, Touchwiz ran almost flawlessly when I first got the phone, but as I used it and installed programs the lag began to creep up, same with my Nexus 7. Still, consumers won't know the difference and will blame the OS no matter what.

Yes which I think is unfair. Those same people download some app from the Apple appstore and it does not run right they say it is the iPhone. I just think if you are going to compare you should do it stock OS to stock OS. I think that is the only way that it is even.

sentinelsx
May 10, 2013, 10:20 AM
iOS has the worst predictive keyboard in existence. Apple should be ashamed that it's still so terrible. Swiftkey before you teach it from your texts, facebook, twitter or whatever is spooky. Afterwards, it's just about at "Holy crap! I sent an email to my wife nearly entirely with the spacebar!" Kii is almost as good, but not quite.

One of the other things that I've had forever on android that made me want to throw my iphone was the inability to setup 1-touch direct call/text/email for contacts on the home screen. Not to mention having no real control over the home screen. Never understood the allure of home screens that look like my mom's XP desktop from a zillion years ago, all bloated up with shortcuts for everything ever.

Funny, i set up all my android phones to have grids of icons on home screens. The only thing i do love is that i can put as many of them in any style, which is a plus on android IMO.

Apart from that, i tried widgets. After two months on my GS3, i found even though the widget was there, 99% of the time i was tapping the app instead. Then i figured that they were simply not my cup of tea. The whole idea of "information at a glance" didn't work for me as well for some reason.

cynics
May 10, 2013, 10:32 AM
I don't think it's fair to compare a jailbroke iPhone to anything considering its impossible again. What's that argument like, "Back when you COULD"? That time has come an gone.

It's also kind of silly for people to keep bringing up "the vast majority" considering the vast majority here aren't in that particular majority.

The best comparison of iOS to Android is going to be on the iPhone/iPad and the Nexus devices. If you must compare a manufacture skinned Android device then keep in mind its Apples fault there are no skinned iOS devices. This can be considered a good or a bad thing, personally I'm glad there are no skinned iOS devices.

spinedoc77
May 10, 2013, 02:37 PM
Yes which I think is unfair. Those same people download some app from the Apple appstore and it does not run right they say it is the iPhone. I just think if you are going to compare you should do it stock OS to stock OS. I think that is the only way that it is even.

Hehe, welcome to consumerville. People do and think some strange stuff, especially when it comes to technology.

----------

Funny, i set up all my android phones to have grids of icons on home screens. The only thing i do love is that i can put as many of them in any style, which is a plus on android IMO.

Apart from that, i tried widgets. After two months on my GS3, i found even though the widget was there, 99% of the time i was tapping the app instead. Then i figured that they were simply not my cup of tea. The whole idea of "information at a glance" didn't work for me as well for some reason.

Even though I moved back to iOS, I found Android live widgets were awesome and miss them a ton. I had live widgets for email, texts, Google Now, and some others. The information is priceless IMO. For emails and texts I loved seeing all my emails, you would scroll them right in the widget.

The BIG one for me was Google Now, for example it had a live widget/card for the traffic and delays for my commute to work and home. With just a glance I could see how early I had to leave, I really appreciated that feature. With iOS I have to look for the google app, tap it to open, and then scroll down and tap again on the card to see that information.

bmac4
May 10, 2013, 02:38 PM
Hehe, welcome to consumerville. People do and think some strange stuff, especially when it comes to technology.

I put not knowing anything about technology and buying an skinned android phone, and then saying it is not as smooth as iOS up there with the best of them. Yes of course the Touchwiz Samsung phone is going not going g to be as smooth. It is running almost double what the iPhone is running. I don't know maybe I know maybe I am too hard on people, but if you are going to come on a forum and complain about something. It would be nice if you knew a little something about what you are talking about first.

spinedoc77
May 10, 2013, 02:46 PM
I put not knowing anything about technology and buying an skinned android phone, and then saying it is not as smooth as iOS up there with the best of them. Yes of course the Touchwiz Samsung phone is going not going g to be as smooth. It is running almost double what the iPhone is running. I don't know maybe I know maybe I am too hard on people, but if you are going to come on a forum and complain about something. It would be nice if you knew a little something about what you are talking about first.

Nah, I still disagree with that, but it's just my opinion. How many Android phones have Jelly Bean? I mean you can blame lag on some phones that came before project butter, or whatever it was called when Google really got serious about lag. Or vice versa, it could be hardware, I had jelly bean 4.1.2 loaded on a Samsung captivate and it lags, but that's due to the old hardware.

If I'm getting a phone from a store completely stock I have no issues comparing it to a stock phone from another company. The vast majority of consumers would do the same simply because they don't know any better, and even people on this forum won't necessarily understand this either.

With that said even though I have experienced lag on vanilla android it really wasn't a big deal, not big enough to give up the phone that's for sure, same as with Touchwiz, I never saw what the big deal was.

bmac4
May 10, 2013, 02:49 PM
Nah, I still disagree with that, but it's just my opinion. How many Android phones have Jelly Bean? I mean you can blame lag on some phones that came before project butter, or whatever it was called when Google really got serious about lag. Or vice versa, it could be hardware, I had jelly bean 4.1.2 loaded on a Samsung captivate and it lags, but that's due to the old hardware.

If I'm getting a phone from a store completely stock I have no issues comparing it to a stock phone from another company. The vast majority of consumers would do the same simply because they don't know any better, and even people on this forum won't necessarily understand this either.

With that said even though I have experienced lag on vanilla android it really wasn't a big deal, not big enough to give up the phone that's for sure, same as with Touchwiz, I never saw what the big deal was.

So I will say this again. I can go into At&t right now and get an iPhone 4. I just see that free after signing a 2 year contract, so I am sure the iPhone 4 is just as good as any thing else. Can I then compare that to my nexus 4 and say that it lags more than my nexus 4, so android is not smoother than iOS? .

spinedoc77
May 10, 2013, 04:45 PM
So I will say this again. I can go into At&t right now and get an iPhone 4. I just see that free after signing a 2 year contract, so I am sure the iPhone 4 is just as good as any thing else. Can I then compare that to my nexus 4 and say that it lags more than my nexus 4, so android is not smoother than iOS? .

Sure, if you load up ios6 on it it will lag like crazy, I have my wifes old iphone 4 and with ios6 it runs like crap. But I think where it's different is that it's not the latest and greatest, and consumers usually ARE much more aware of what the latest flagship phone is. This thread was specifically about comparing the ip5 to the GS4, the latest and greatest from each respective company.

I mean you can really make any scenario you wanted to construct. Compare an older phone, a non butter jb, a skinned phone, a jailbroken phone, you can tip the scales for or against either OS by including whatever hardware you want to include.

bmac4
May 10, 2013, 05:41 PM
Sure, if you load up ios6 on it it will lag like crazy, I have my wifes old iphone 4 and with ios6 it runs like crap. But I think where it's different is that it's not the latest and greatest, and consumers usually ARE much more aware of what the latest flagship phone is. This thread was specifically about comparing the ip5 to the GS4, the latest and greatest from each respective company.

I mean you can really make any scenario you wanted to construct. Compare an older phone, a non butter jb, a skinned phone, a jailbroken phone, you can tip the scales for or against either OS by including whatever hardware you want to include.

OK well the reason I say this is because that is the scenario you made. If it is the carrier store the consumer want know the difference. You say because the S4 is in the store that is what people are going to buy, and know nothing about the nexus 4. Those same customers could careless about the latest and greatest. My mom has the iPhone 4 and could careless if it lags, but she does notice that my nexus 4 is much faster. You pretty much made the customer a none tech person because you said they would buy whatever android was at the carrier store. If they are that type of person then they would not care which iPhone they got.

I think you are trying to make this work how ever you can in the iphone's favor. Ever scenario you have give I have suggested of how it could be compared more evenly. To which you would come up with some way that it is not fair. Well my thoughts are comparing an S4 to an iPhone 5 in smoothness is not a fair comparison. I have given plenty of evidence of why it is not fair. You can keep saying what you want, but if you can't not give me something more than just "they are both sold in carrier stores and the nexus 4 is not" then it is not worth my time to keep discussing this.

spinedoc77
May 10, 2013, 07:54 PM
OK well the reason I say this is because that is the scenario you made. If it is the carrier store the consumer want know the difference. You say because the S4 is in the store that is what people are going to buy, and know nothing about the nexus 4. Those same customers could careless about the latest and greatest. My mom has the iPhone 4 and could careless if it lags, but she does notice that my nexus 4 is much faster. You pretty much made the customer a none tech person because you said they would buy whatever android was at the carrier store. If they are that type of person then they would not care which iPhone they got.

I think you are trying to make this work how ever you can in the iphone's favor. Ever scenario you have give I have suggested of how it could be compared more evenly. To which you would come up with some way that it is not fair. Well my thoughts are comparing an S4 to an iPhone 5 in smoothness is not a fair comparison. I have given plenty of evidence of why it is not fair. You can keep saying what you want, but if you can't not give me something more than just "they are both sold in carrier stores and the nexus 4 is not" then it is not worth my time to keep discussing this.

Sorry this discussion is getting way too confusing for me. :confused::confused: Android lags, vanilla android lags, beyond that I'm not sure your point. Compare a Nexus 7 which is a vanilla android to an iphone 5 if you like, I have and found the N7 lagged a bit.

bmac4
May 10, 2013, 08:27 PM
Sorry this discussion is getting way too confusing for me. :confused::confused: Android lags, vanilla android lags, beyond that I'm not sure your point. Compare a Nexus 7 which is a vanilla android to an iphone 5 if you like, I have and found the N7 lagged a bit.

Oh OK so now you are just saying android lags. I am going to say this again maybe if I put it in capital letter you will get it. MY NEXUS 4 DOES NOT LAG. IT LAGS AS MUCH AS MU IPHONE 5. Do I need to be any more clear?

spinedoc77
May 10, 2013, 08:30 PM
Oh OK so now you are just saying android lags. I am going to say this again maybe if I put it in capital letter you will get it. MY NEXUS 4 DOES NOT LAG. IT LAGS AS MUCH AS MU IPHONE 5. Do I need to be any more clear?

I've been saying I've experienced lag on vanilla android since page one. My experiences are obviously different than yours. Not sure why you are so angry, lol.

bmac4
May 10, 2013, 08:40 PM
I've been saying I've experienced lag on vanilla android since page one. My experiences are obviously different than yours. Not sure why you are so angry, lol.

You have not said once that you have used the flagship Google phone the nexus 4, so your experiences with vanilla android don't mean anything. Sure your nexus 7 can't keep up with an iPhone 5. The thing is over a year old. Good try though.

spinedoc77
May 11, 2013, 02:59 AM
You have not said once that you have used the flagship Google phone the nexus 4, so your experiences with vanilla android don't mean anything. Sure your nexus 7 can't keep up with an iPhone 5. The thing is over a year old. Good try though.

Ahh so now its not vanilla android that's what should be comparable to an ip5, but specifically only a nexus 4. Ok I got you. :confused:

bmac4
May 11, 2013, 09:15 AM
Ahh so now its not vanilla android that's what should be comparable to an ip5, but specifically only a nexus 4. Ok I got you. :confused:

Wow you really do know how to turn things around don't you. I suggested we compare a iPhone 4 which is not the current iPhone. You said of course it would lag. Before you said we should be comparing the latest and greatest from each. Guess what that is the iPhone 5 and nexus 4. Those are the latest and greatest, so how else would you like to make this comparison go in favor of the iPhone 5? Oh wait now it needs to be any iPhone cause that is what we are going to do with android. Why don't we compare the iPad mini with the nexus 4? Yea a tablet with a phone makes perfect sense. You can keep trying to bring things up that you know will make the iPhone look like the better device, but at some point you are going to run out of ideas. I have stuck with one this whole time. The iPhone 5 and the nexus 4 should be the only two devices compared when talking about smoothness. If we make that comparison the nexus 4 is just as smooth as the iPhone 5.

spinedoc77
May 11, 2013, 09:54 AM
Wow you really do know how to turn things around don't you. I suggested we compare a iPhone 4 which is not the current iPhone. You said of course it would lag. Before you said we should be comparing the latest and greatest from each. Guess what that is the iPhone 5 and nexus 4. Those are the latest and greatest, so how else would you like to make this comparison go in favor of the iPhone 5? Oh wait now it needs to be any iPhone cause that is what we are going to do with android. Why don't we compare the iPad mini with the nexus 4? Yea a tablet with a phone makes perfect sense. You can keep trying to bring things up that you know will make the iPhone look like the better device, but at some point you are going to run out of ideas. I have stuck with one this whole time. The iPhone 5 and the nexus 4 should be the only two devices compared when talking about smoothness. If we make that comparison the nexus 4 is just as smooth as the iPhone 5.

Wow the anger, lol, it's only an internet forum. I don't know personally if the N4 lags, there are a lot of items that come up on a google search for lag and Nexus 4, but once again I have never used one personally so I couldn't say if it does or doesn't.

I thought a nexus 7 would have been a valid comparison, they both have quad core cpu's, although I believe the N7 is only 1200 versus the N4 1500, and the N4 has more RAM. But still, with the N7's specs it's difficult to accept that it lags.

Still, my point still remains I disagree that the N4 should be the ONLY android phone allowed to be compared with the ip5. You can stamp your feet and tantrum all you want, but it's simply my opinion, same as it's simply your opinion, neither of us are right or wrong. I've laid out my reasoning, as you have yours so probably not much else to be said.

Also I NEVER said the IP5 was a better device, 1) I said it lags less than the Android phones I have used and 2) it is a better device for MY needs.

sentinelsx
May 11, 2013, 09:54 AM
The iPhone 5 and the nexus 4 should be the only two devices compared when talking about smoothness. If we make that comparison the nexus 4 is just as smooth as the iPhone 5.

If you compare a n7 running stock 4.2.2 with an ipad mini though, the mini comes up even with inferior hardware. Seems the n7 gets slow after a few weeks of use.

No one knows if it is tegra, some abomination in 4.2, or both.


And slightly off topic, there is a huge detailed post over on g+ from an android guru who knows the inner workings of the OS and squashes some myths about android, but clearly states that the faster and better the hardware and the better optimized the app, android will be smoother. She claims multiple times that with slower hardware, we are bound to see issues with lag which attributes solely to how the processes are coded to run. Here it is:

https://plus.google.com/app/basic/stream/z123z1eomsqdzbexo04ccdjy2ujlhl4xmy00k

Have to read the entire post as it is worth reading, but it shows how dependent android is on better hardware.


What I did notice though, is that her post shows that once hardware gets really good, and the software and apps are designed much better, android should offer better experience because of how ios is limited through its design choices.

The only thing I fear though is that judging from past and present, the OEMs in charge of selling android based devices either do not give a damn about that or are simply unable to do a great enough job.

Hence my view reinforced that unless google takes complete control of their OS through a google designed and manufactured phone, we will probably never see android truly shine. It is sad.

bmac4
May 11, 2013, 10:37 AM
Wow the anger, lol, it's only an internet forum. I don't know personally if the N4 lags, there are a lot of items that come up on a google search for lag and Nexus 4, but once again I have never used one personally so I couldn't say if it does or doesn't.

I thought a nexus 7 would have been a valid comparison, they both have quad core cpu's, although I believe the N7 is only 1200 versus the N4 1500, and the N4 has more RAM. But still, with the N7's specs it's difficult to accept that it lags.

Still, my point still remains I disagree that the N4 should be the ONLY android phone allowed to be compared with the ip5. You can stamp your feet and tantrum all you want, but it's simply my opinion, same as it's simply your opinion, neither of us are right or wrong. I've laid out my reasoning, as you have yours so probably not much else to be said.

Also I NEVER said the IP5 was a better device, 1) I said it lags less than the Android phones I have used and 2) it is a better device for MY needs.

I am not mad. I know that this is an internet forum. You just keep saying things that I brought up and you threw out. I said we could compare the iPhone 4. You said no because it is old. You then compare you over a year old N7 to the iPhone 5 which is about 7 months old to it. I don't understand how this works. If you want to go down that road then why can't we compare the iPad mini with the nexus 4? If we do that then the nexus 4 blows iOS out of the water.

Also not once did I say which device is better. I don't do that. I like one thing. Someone else likes something else. All I am saying is stock android on nexus 4 is just as smooth as iOS. You are saying it depends on the device. To which I say iOS does the same thing.

----------

If you compare a n7 running stock 4.2.2 with an ipad mini though, the mini comes up even with inferior hardware. Seems the n7 gets slow after a few weeks of use.

No one knows if it is tegra, some abomination in 4.2, or both.


And slightly off topic, there is a huge detailed post over on g+ from an android guru who knows the inner workings of the OS and squashes some myths about android, but clearly states that the faster and better the hardware and the better optimized the app, android will be smoother. She claims multiple times that with slower hardware, we are bound to see issues with lag which attributes solely to how the processes are coded to run. Here it is:

https://plus.google.com/app/basic/stream/z123z1eomsqdzbexo04ccdjy2ujlhl4xmy00k

Have to read the entire post as it is worth reading, but it shows how dependent android is on better hardware.


What I did notice though, is that her post shows that once hardware gets really good, and the software and apps are designed much better, android should offer better experience because of how ios is limited through its design choices.

The only thing I fear though is that judging from past and present, the OEMs in charge of selling android based devices either do not give a damn about that or are simply unable to do a great enough job.

Hence my view reinforced that unless google takes complete control of their OS through a google designed and manufactured phone, we will probably never see android truly shine. It is sad.

Thanks for the link.

spinedoc77
May 11, 2013, 10:45 AM
I am not mad. I know that this is an internet forum. You just keep saying things that I brought up and you threw out. I said we could compare the iPhone 4. You said no because it is old. You then compare you over a year old N7 to the iPhone 5 which is about 7 months old to it. I don't understand how this works. If you want to go down that road then why can't we compare the iPad mini with the nexus 4? If we do that then the nexus 4 blows iOS out of the water.

Also not once did I say which device is better. I don't do that. I like one thing. Someone else likes something else. All I am saying is stock android on nexus 4 is just as smooth as iOS. You are saying it depends on the device. To which I say iOS does the same thing.

----------



Thanks for the link.

I've also compared it to my Note 2, which is newer than the ip5, but of course the Note 2 isn't allowed to your standards because it's skinned, which I highly disagree with, but we can just agree to disagree. IMO the ip4 is taking it a little too far, then I can compare my Samsung Captivate at that point.

As for stock android on the N4 being just as smooth as the ip5 I never said that wasn't the case, I haven't owned a N4 so can't say that I personally have knowledge of that.

DeathChill
May 11, 2013, 10:53 AM
Am I the only one who found that my iPhone 4 actually got speedier with iOS 6?

EDIT: Nope, some Googling shows that iOS 6 actually improved the speed of the iPhone 4.

bmac4
May 11, 2013, 11:00 AM
I've also compared it to my Note 2, which is newer than the ip5, but of course the Note 2 isn't allowed to your standards because it's skinned, which I highly disagree with, but we can just agree to disagree. IMO the ip4 is taking it a little too far, then I can compare my Samsung Captivate at that point.

As for stock android on the N4 being just as smooth as the ip5 I never said that wasn't the case, I haven't owned a N4 so can't say that I personally have knowledge of that.

Oh I do t remember you saying anything about the note 2. I think it is very close to being as smooth. I am fine with throwing the iPhone 4 out, but I was proving a point. You still have yet to saying anything about the iPad mini and the nexus 4. You can say whatever you want, but if you want to compare different devices on each OS then the iPad mini has to be listed. It can't keep up with any of the other devices.

spinedoc77
May 11, 2013, 01:08 PM
Oh I do t remember you saying anything about the note 2. I think it is very close to being as smooth. I am fine with throwing the iPhone 4 out, but I was proving a point. You still have yet to saying anything about the iPad mini and the nexus 4. You can say whatever you want, but if you want to compare different devices on each OS then the iPad mini has to be listed. It can't keep up with any of the other devices.

I was just saying the example of the N7 versus the ip5 because I've owned both devices and the N7 is quite beefy in terms of specs, it's not very far off from the N4, I'm not sure why it matters that it's a tablet, but I understand you want to compare the N4, unfortunately I've never used the N4 so can't make a judgement. I only had an ipad mini for a couple of days, and yeah I'll agree with you it is sucky, all of the ipads I've had have been pretty bad for memory management, they were not laggy though, but they crashed a lot especially with a lot of browser windows open. I'm the wrong guy though as I switched off ipads a long time ago and now enjoy windows tablets which are much better than either ios or android IMO.

I'm sure the N4 is nice and smooth, until the battery runs out!! :eek::eek: Hehe I'm just poking at you.

jeffe
May 11, 2013, 06:12 PM
I was pretty surprised myself at how the GS3 ran compared to the Galaxy Nexus. Nexus was really super smooth compared to the GS3. Not to say it was bad...you'll notice it at first and then totally forget about it.

I'm now running CyanogenMod on the GS3 (pretty comparable to stock Android) and it is once again super smooth.

I'm not sure what but something in Samsung's software causes hiccups..if you look at Logcat you'll also see 10 times of many messages scrolling by..maybe that is it.

cynics
May 11, 2013, 06:17 PM
I feel the lag is an app optimization problem. I find Android OS to generally be a smoother experience compared to iOS however the apps are a different story.

I have plenty of screen shots showing lag in iOS doing things in the OS itself.

Like this,

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/05/12/abebymaz.jpg

This

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/05/12/ymyvuqyb.jpg

And this

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/05/12/amusahub.jpg

Those are examples of iOS just hanging. I rarely (not always) have that problem with Android. But a lot of the apps where I spend most of my time can be complete stutter crap. But not all apps just certain apps that are more then likely not programmed well.

The same does apply for iOS too though. Look at the current version of Facebook. It's a laggy stutter mess on even the iPhone 5. It's not that the phone is laggy, its not that the OS is laggy its the app.

Before anyone says FB is fine....it's not....

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1581014

I find it very very helpful to reset my iPhone once a week and wipe it every 6 months. Makes a noticeable difference. I also like installing iOS updates from iTunes to get a fresh copy of iOS as that seems to help too...

bmac4
May 11, 2013, 06:25 PM
I was just saying the example of the N7 versus the ip5 because I've owned both devices and the N7 is quite beefy in terms of specs, it's not very far off from the N4, I'm not sure why it matters that it's a tablet, but I understand you want to compare the N4, unfortunately I've never used the N4 so can't make a judgement. I only had an ipad mini for a couple of days, and yeah I'll agree with you it is sucky, all of the ipads I've had have been pretty bad for memory management, they were not laggy though, but they crashed a lot especially with a lot of browser windows open. I'm the wrong guy though as I switched off ipads a long time ago and now enjoy windows tablets which are much better than either ios or android IMO.

I'm sure the N4 is nice and smooth, until the battery runs out!! :eek::eek: Hehe I'm just poking at you.

Well I am just saying that yes iOS runs smooth on the iphone 5 with the top specs and completely optimized for it, but when you start talking about any other iphone maybe not the 4s you are talking about some lag. My sister has the ipad mini and it has some lag issues. If it requires a lot of power for games or something taxing it can start to shutter. Don't get me wrong I have the ipad 2 and love it, but it and the mini have low specs compared to what we see now. The mini is almost a brand new product and it is not super smooth.

I think the key with android is that yes it has some issues with being on so many different kinds of devices. You can have a great experience with one, and on another one it can leave with a lot to be desired. I understand people are going to compare android as a whole based on skinned devices cause they are the easiest to get. I just think people are missing out, and should understand those devices to not represent android at its core. Stock android is way smoother on the nexus 4 then any skinned phone can think about.

spinedoc77
May 11, 2013, 06:50 PM
Well I am just saying that yes iOS runs smooth on the iphone 5 with the top specs and completely optimized for it, but when you start talking about any other iphone maybe not the 4s you are talking about some lag. My sister has the ipad mini and it has some lag issues. If it requires a lot of power for games or something taxing it can start to shutter. Don't get me wrong I have the ipad 2 and love it, but it and the mini have low specs compared to what we see now. The mini is almost a brand new product and it is not super smooth.

I think the key with android is that yes it has some issues with being on so many different kinds of devices. You can have a great experience with one, and on another one it can leave with a lot to be desired. I understand people are going to compare android as a whole based on skinned devices cause they are the easiest to get. I just think people are missing out, and should understand those devices to not represent android at its core. Stock android is way smoother on the nexus 4 then any skinned phone can think about.

It's a shame this is an issue, IMO it holds Android back. Also waiting so long to get Android updates is annoying, not getting 4.2 on my Note 2 was one of the reasons I sold it as I really needed the group messaging fixes 4.2 had. Heck there are a TON of consumers still on really old versions like froyo or even older.

----------

I feel the lag is an app optimization problem. I find Android OS to generally be a smoother experience compared to iOS however the apps are a different story.

I have plenty of screen shots showing lag in iOS doing things in the OS itself.

Like this,

Image (http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/05/12/abebymaz.jpg)

This

Image (http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/05/12/ymyvuqyb.jpg)

And this

Image (http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/05/12/amusahub.jpg)

Those are examples of iOS just hanging. I rarely (not always) have that problem with Android. But a lot of the apps where I spend most of my time can be complete stutter crap. But not all apps just certain apps that are more then likely not programmed well.

The same does apply for iOS too though. Look at the current version of Facebook. It's a laggy stutter mess on even the iPhone 5. It's not that the phone is laggy, its not that the OS is laggy its the app.

Before anyone says FB is fine....it's not....

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1581014

I find it very very helpful to reset my iPhone once a week and wipe it every 6 months. Makes a noticeable difference. I also like installing iOS updates from iTunes to get a fresh copy of iOS as that seems to help too...

What do those screenshots show? I can't tell because they are just stills, videos would be better. Does iOS completely freeze, for how long? I've never ever had iOS freeze on me like that in the years I've been using it, although I have had a specific apps freeze on me and need a restart. iOS seems to be all or nothing, for example the browser either works great, or when a lot of tabs are open it just simply runs out of memory and crashes, other apps seem like that too, they sometimes just simply crash and exit out, but usually don't show any slowdown or lag until they just crash.

torana355
May 11, 2013, 06:53 PM
It is a surprise that Google has not marketed the Nexus 4 much more aggressively. It really is an awesome phone but it seems to be lost amongst the Samsung and HTC hype.

bmac4
May 11, 2013, 06:57 PM
It's a shame this is an issue, IMO it holds Android back. Also waiting so long to get Android updates is annoying, not getting 4.2 on my Note 2 was one of the reasons I sold it as I really needed the group messaging fixes 4.2 had. Heck there are a TON of consumers still on really old versions like froyo or even older.

----------



What do those screenshots show? I can't tell because they are just stills, videos would be better. Does iOS completely freeze, for how long? I've never ever had iOS freeze on me like that in the years I've been using it, although I have had a specific apps freeze on me and need a restart. iOS seems to be all or nothing, for example the browser either works great, or when a lot of tabs are open it just simply runs out of memory and crashes, other apps seem like that too, they sometimes just simply crash and exit out, but usually don't show any slowdown or lag until they just crash.

If you have an android from the last 2 years you are not running Froyo. My 2 year old HTC inspire had gingerbread on it before I sold it. You can't blame google for Samsung and the rest of the OEMs not pushing updates out faster. Google gives it to them they have to do something with it.

Those pictures are showing the phone hanging up. The last one he is going to the search page and there are still apps that have not switched to the next page. iOS is not smooth all the time. It has its moments.

sentinelsx
May 11, 2013, 08:42 PM
It is a surprise that Google has not marketed the Nexus 4 much more aggressively. It really is an awesome phone but it seems to be lost amongst the Samsung and HTC hype.

Because google is OEMs' b!tch.

And this is the number one reason why I still have an iPhone despite running many android phones along side.

The day when google makes their own nexus and markets it as a competitor to rest of the flagships is the day I will switch completely. Until then, I hope ios7 is great or bb10 becomes a smash hit.

bmac4
May 11, 2013, 09:12 PM
Because google is OEMs' b!tch.

And this is the number one reason why I still have an iPhone despite running many android phones along side.

The day when google makes their own nexus and markets it as a competitor to rest of the flagships is the day I will switch completely. Until then, I hope ios7 is great or bb10 becomes a smash hit.

Really that is the reason you use an iPhone. I understand they need to do more with the nexus stuff, but I don't think I can stick with an iPhone because of that.

torana355
May 11, 2013, 09:31 PM
Because google is OEMs' b!tch.

And this is the number one reason why I still have an iPhone despite running many android phones along side.

The day when google makes their own nexus and markets it as a competitor to rest of the flagships is the day I will switch completely. Until then, I hope ios7 is great or bb10 becomes a smash hit.

That makes no sense, why would you stick with an iPhone due to the lack of marketing by Google??? People that do know about the Nexus 4 are generally very positive about it including myself, It leaves the iPhone for dead imo.

sentinelsx
May 11, 2013, 10:12 PM
That makes no sense, why would you stick with an iPhone due to the lack of marketing by Google??? People that do know about the Nexus 4 are generally very positive about it including myself, It leaves the iPhone for dead imo.

Not lack of marketing, lack of making it an equal to a skinned flagship. The nexus 4 has compromises when compared to the rest of them.

torana355
May 11, 2013, 10:21 PM
Not lack of marketing, lack of making it an equal to a skinned flagship. The nexus 4 has compromises when compared to the rest of them.

What compromises are you talking about? I know the N4 does not officially have LTE but in almost every other area it matched the flagship phones from Samsung and HTC. Obviously the S4 and HTC one have better hardware but they were just released. When you take the cost into account the Nexus 4 makes a very good case for itself, not to mention the fact Vanilla Android is a much smoother experience and the fact you get updates straight away.

sentinelsx
May 11, 2013, 10:58 PM
Really that is the reason you use an iPhone. I understand they need to do more with the nexus stuff, but I don't think I can stick with an iPhone because of that.

Because it is jailbroken. That's why I can put up with it easier than the nexus.


If I buy the nexus I lose LTe which I now use daily, the camera of n4 was rubbish when I used it which is another negative, and under same usage and starting from same hour of the day the iPhone 5 tended to beat the n4 in usage by a handy 2 hrs SOT easily FOR MY USES.

Sure if it was not jailbroken then I would throw it ASAP and instead use a nexus 4.

A good illustration is a balance with my iPhone 5 and the nexus 4 I had before. All of the little things in both have a weight. Whichever tips the scale is the one I go with.

If google makes a fully controlled nexus flagship without concerns about these sucky OEMs, the nexus side would tip over heavily in a flash and the iPhone will lose.

Atleast that is MY balance.

----------

What compromises are you talking about? I know the N4 does not officially have LTE but in almost every other area it matched the flagship phones from Samsung and HTC. Obviously the S4 and HTC one have better hardware but they were just released. When you take the cost into account the Nexus 4 makes a very good case for itself, not to mention the fact Vanilla Android is a much smoother experience and the fact you get updates straight away.

Camera, LTe, audio quality and battery life matter to ME.

See above post for explanation.

bmac4
May 11, 2013, 11:46 PM
Because it is jailbroken. That's why I can put up with it easier than the nexus.


If I buy the nexus I lose LTe which I now use daily, the camera of n4 was rubbish when I used it which is another negative, and under same usage and starting from same hour of the day the iPhone 5 tended to beat the n4 in usage by a handy 2 hrs SOT easily FOR MY USES.

Sure if it was not jailbroken then I would throw it ASAP and instead use a nexus 4.

A good illustration is a balance with my iPhone 5 and the nexus 4 I had before. All of the little things in both have a weight. Whichever tips the scale is the one I go with.

If google makes a fully controlled nexus flagship without concerns about these sucky OEMs, the nexus side would tip over heavily in a flash and the iPhone will lose.

Atleast that is MY balance.

----------



Camera, LTe, audio quality and battery life matter to ME.

See above post for explanation.

Oh how do you figure google holds back compared to the skinned flagship phones? Lets look at the nexus 4. It is almost the same phone as the Optimus G. How is google going to ask OEMs to make a phone that is going to have better hardware then their skinned phone? It sounds like you want Google to start building the hardware too, but I don't think they will ever do that. I mean when you are asking a OEM to make your phone you can't ask them to out do their own phone. They would never sell theirs.

sentinelsx
May 12, 2013, 12:25 AM
Oh how do you figure google holds back compared to the skinned flagship phones? Lets look at the nexus 4. It is almost the same phone as the Optimus G. How is google going to ask OEMs to make a phone that is going to have better hardware then their skinned phone? It sounds like you want Google to start building the hardware too, but I don't think they will ever do that. I mean when you are asking a OEM to make your phone you can't ask them to out do their own phone. They would never sell theirs.

"Almost the same phone".

Yeah, sure. A Hyundai is "almost the same car " as a BMW too as long as both are using a v6 engine. The specs are same, why bother buying a BMW?

You just explained in your own post how google is holding back lol.

And there are so many chrome books right? Yet the pixel was made. Showing google CAN do it, they are just chained by their OEMs.

And you may not have an issue with it, but I do. At least when it comes to windows phone, you can buy a Nokia or Samsung or htc and enjoy smooth performance, great camera, and their respective hardware enhancements (pure view, beats, Micro sd etc) while using "stock wp". However, I don't like metro so yeah, too bad.

And yeah, as long as google is holding back I would rather use an iPhone or in the future a bb10 device.

bmac4
May 12, 2013, 12:59 AM
"Almost the same phone".

Yeah, sure. A Hyundai is "almost the same car " as a BMW too as long as both are using a v6 engine. The specs are same, why bother buying a BMW?

You just explained in your own post how google is holding back lol.

And there are so many chrome books right? Yet the pixel was made. Showing google CAN do it, they are just chained by their OEMs.

And you may not have an issue with it, but I do. At least when it comes to windows phone, you can buy a Nokia or Samsung or htc and enjoy smooth performance, great camera, and their respective hardware enhancements (pure view, beats, Micro sd etc) while using "stock wp". However, I don't like metro so yeah, too bad.

And yeah, as long as google is holding back I would rather use an iPhone or in the future a bb10 device.

I am saying they are going to make the same specs as the phone the nexus is based on. I would love to see Google make their own phone, or to make all android phones be stock. I just don't ever see that happening. The nexus line is much different than anything else on the market. It is only sold unlocked, and is based on another skinned android phone. I am not sure that google makes to phone to have huge sales numbers. I think we have different expectations for the nexus than google does. Other than a little better camera what is wrong with the nexus 4? How does it not compare with the flagship android phones?

torana355
May 12, 2013, 03:28 AM
Camera, LTe, audio quality and battery life matter to ME.


Camera and LTE, yes i agree that those are inferior but Audio quality and battery life is great on my Nexus 4 compared to the iPhone 5. Then you factor in the price difference and the Nexus 4 becomes the best phone on the market imo. I would not use an iP5 over my Nexus 4 if you gave one to me for free. If the Nexus 5 can improve on the few downsides to the Nexus 4 and keep a low price i will be a happy camper :)

cynics
May 12, 2013, 07:33 AM
What do those screenshots show? I can't tell because they are just stills, videos would be better. Does iOS completely freeze, for how long? I've never ever had iOS freeze on me like that in the years I've been using it, although I have had a specific apps freeze on me and need a restart. iOS seems to be all or nothing, for example the browser either works great, or when a lot of tabs are open it just simply runs out of memory and crashes, other apps seem like that too, they sometimes just simply crash and exit out, but usually don't show any slowdown or lag until they just crash.

I should have explained sorry.

The screen shot with the pass code. Clearly my pass code is typed in. The phone should instantly unlock, not give me time to take a screen shot. It just hung there for a few seconds.

The one with the multitasking bar opened did the same thing. It was frozen there.

Spotlight search, the keyboard was lagged and not coming up. It eventually did.

My point is that you telling me you never experienced lag in iOS is like someone telling you they've never experienced lag in Android. I can either think you are full of it and/or just lying or your experience has been different then mine.

sentinelsx
May 12, 2013, 11:02 AM
I am saying they are going to make the same specs as the phone the nexus is based on. I would love to see Google make their own phone, or to make all android phones be stock. I just don't ever see that happening. The nexus line is much different than anything else on the market. It is only sold unlocked, and is based on another skinned android phone. I am not sure that google makes to phone to have huge sales numbers. I think we have different expectations for the nexus than google does. Other than a little better camera what is wrong with the nexus 4? How does it not compare with the flagship android phones?

And I am saying if google doesn't make that I am fine using google services on an iPhone that will always run "stock ios".

The small trade off default maps is not enough for ME to take away my 32gb local storage, LTE which I use daily, a good camera, and 1-2 hours extra usage.

And those are the areas apart from camera where the nexus doesn't compare to flagships. The gs4 and one have all those except for "stock android".

----------

Camera and LTE, yes i agree that those are inferior but Audio quality and battery life is great on my Nexus 4 compared to the iPhone 5. Then you factor in the price difference and the Nexus 4 becomes the best phone on the market imo. I would not use an iP5 over my Nexus 4 if you gave one to me for free. If the Nexus 5 can improve on the few downsides to the Nexus 4 and keep a low price i will be a happy camper :)

As I explained, I get almost 2 hours SOT more on iPhone 5 compared to nexus 4. Not the same.

And audio is clearer on ip5 in my experience atleast. I found the gs3s stock music player to be better than iPhone 5 though. Nexus 4 comes close but not exact.

And price is a non issue in the great white north because the big three here are all the same and whether you get a subsidized device or not, plans remains the same.

Besides I would happily pay $600 and get the 32gb storage, LTe, brilliant camera than pay $300 and be burned.

andy2141
May 12, 2013, 11:47 AM
Got a GS4 last week and have been using it heavily since..

I still have my iPhone 5 and need to decide which one to keep. As much as I like the GS4 I think I may regret my decision to keep it long term. Maybe Google IO later this week will help me make my decision, but only time will tell.

bmac4
May 12, 2013, 02:31 PM
And I am saying if google doesn't make that I am fine using google services on an iPhone that will always run "stock ios".

The small trade off default maps is not enough for ME to take away my 32gb local storage, LTE which I use daily, a good camera, and 1-2 hours extra usage.

And those are the areas apart from camera where the nexus doesn't compare to flagships. The gs4 and one have all those except for "stock android".

----------



As I explained, I get almost 2 hours SOT more on iPhone 5 compared to nexus 4. Not the same.

And audio is clearer on ip5 in my experience atleast. I found the gs3s stock music player to be better than iPhone 5 though. Nexus 4 comes close but not exact.

And price is a non issue in the great white north because the big three here are all the same and whether you get a subsidized device or not, plans remains the same.

Besides I would happily pay $600 and get the 32gb storage, LTe, brilliant camera than pay $300 and be burned.

So have storage bigger than 16gb is cutting corners? I understand that the LTE can be a deal breaker, but from what I understand it is almost impossible to get approved LTE on a phone these days without going through a carrier. Google nor I wants that. If they went through the carrier it would be up to them when the phone was updated. No thanks I want nothing to do with carriers.

Now I do agree with you on the camera, but I don't use it enough for it to matter to me. I do agree that is something they need to work on. I still don't think it some how does not make the nexus 4 compare to the flagship phones.

None of these would make me go to using an iPhone that I do not like as much as android. The battery life on the nexus 4 is nothing really different from any other android. The only one that I can think of that is better is the note 2. This is your opinion, but saying it does not compare to the flagships is kind of crazy. Having the phone unlocked limits some of the things it has, but I will take that over having to sign a 2 year contract.

jeffe
May 12, 2013, 02:38 PM
Having the phone unlocked limits some of the things it has, but I will take that over having to sign a 2 year contract.

Just wondering..How often do you switch carriers? i'd be surprised if we don't see a LTE version of the Nexus 4 announced this upcoming week.

bmac4
May 12, 2013, 02:48 PM
Just wondering..How often do you switch carriers? i'd be surprised if we don't see a LTE version of the Nexus 4 announced this upcoming week.

I have never switched carriers. Been with AT&T for over 15 years. Well started out Bellsouth.

cynics
May 12, 2013, 04:44 PM
Just wondering..How often do you switch carriers? i'd be surprised if we don't see a LTE version of the Nexus 4 announced this upcoming week.

Not unless a manufacture made a single radio that handles all bands and is inexpensive enough to not effect pricing.

Googles vision of the Nexus is a single world phone. Using the iPhone for example, there are different versions depending on LTE bands being used. There is only one Nexus 4 (aside from storage size obviously) that works worldwide on all GSM.

spinedoc77
May 12, 2013, 05:41 PM
I should have explained sorry.

The screen shot with the pass code. Clearly my pass code is typed in. The phone should instantly unlock, not give me time to take a screen shot. It just hung there for a few seconds.

The one with the multitasking bar opened did the same thing. It was frozen there.

Spotlight search, the keyboard was lagged and not coming up. It eventually did.

My point is that you telling me you never experienced lag in iOS is like someone telling you they've never experienced lag in Android. I can either think you are full of it and/or just lying or your experience has been different then mine.

I hear ya, I've never had any lag in years of using iOS, but that's if the hardware is paired with the right software. An old ip4 with ios6 I have, for example, lags a lot. I agree though, even though I've seen Android lag a lot, there are plenty of users who say Android has never lagged for them.

sentinelsx
May 12, 2013, 06:47 PM
So have storage bigger than 16gb is cutting corners? I understand that the LTE can be a deal breaker, but from what I understand it is almost impossible to get approved LTE on a phone these days without going through a carrier. Google nor I wants that. If they went through the carrier it would be up to them when the phone was updated. No thanks I want nothing to do with carriers.

Now I do agree with you on the camera, but I don't use it enough for it to matter to me. I do agree that is something they need to work on. I still don't think it some how does not make the nexus 4 compare to the flagship phones.

None of these would make me go to using an iPhone that I do not like as much as android. The battery life on the nexus 4 is nothing really different from any other android. The only one that I can think of that is better is the note 2. This is your opinion, but saying it does not compare to the flagships is kind of crazy. Having the phone unlocked limits some of the things it has, but I will take that over having to sign a 2 year contract.

The iphone has LTe and apple is not crying to the carriers for it.

You don't want more storage. Good for you. Bad for me. And since other flagships offer ways to have bigger storage, a minus for the nexus.

You don't need LTe. Good for you. I find 3G grueling slow.

Your opinion that "saying nexus 4 does not compare to flagships is crazy" is again just that, yor opinion because you are ok with something that lacks those features. Perhaps stock android is enough to make it "equal" to flagships for you but that is not true for everyone.

If I am enjoying 32gb, lte, camera, batter life in one device, and the nexus doesn't offer that because "hurr we cannot make our OEMs angry", well it is a compromise and fails to match the flagship experience I am used to.

No matter of justification can equate the two.

bmac4
May 12, 2013, 08:34 PM
The iphone has LTe and apple is not crying to the carriers for it.

You don't want more storage. Good for you. Bad for me. And since other flagships offer ways to have bigger storage, a minus for the nexus.

You don't need LTe. Good for you. I find 3G grueling slow.

Your opinion that "saying nexus 4 does not compare to flagships is crazy" is again just that, yor opinion because you are ok with something that lacks those features. Perhaps stock android is enough to make it "equal" to flagships for you but that is not true for everyone.

If I am enjoying 32gb, lte, camera, batter life in one device, and the nexus doesn't offer that because "hurr we cannot make our OEMs angry", well it is a compromise and fails to match the flagship experience I am used to.

No matter of justification can equate the two.

I am not justify anything. I did not say I do not use LTE. I don't when I use my nexus 4. I just told you why it is harder for an unlocked phone to have it. I like the nexus 4 and love using it. You don't have to, but you also can just see it for what it is. No everyone is going to like every phone. You can complain about it all you want, but guess what the last time I checked Google could careless what you think.

It is not the best speced phone, but it works for a lot of people and Google, so I don't things are going to change.

blackhand1001
May 12, 2013, 08:47 PM
I feel the lag is an app optimization problem. I find Android OS to generally be a smoother experience compared to iOS however the apps are a different story.

I have plenty of screen shots showing lag in iOS doing things in the OS itself.

Like this,

Image (http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/05/12/abebymaz.jpg)

This

Image (http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/05/12/ymyvuqyb.jpg)

And this

Image (http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/05/12/amusahub.jpg)

Those are examples of iOS just hanging. I rarely (not always) have that problem with Android. But a lot of the apps where I spend most of my time can be complete stutter crap. But not all apps just certain apps that are more then likely not programmed well.

The same does apply for iOS too though. Look at the current version of Facebook. It's a laggy stutter mess on even the iPhone 5. It's not that the phone is laggy, its not that the OS is laggy its the app.

Before anyone says FB is fine....it's not....

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1581014

I find it very very helpful to reset my iPhone once a week and wipe it every 6 months. Makes a noticeable difference. I also like installing iOS updates from iTunes to get a fresh copy of iOS as that seems to help too...

For third party apps go into developer optioina and enable force gpu rendering. Makes a huge difference in apps that have it off because they are android 2 based.

sentinelsx
May 12, 2013, 10:31 PM
I am not justify anything. I did not say I do not use LTE. I don't when I use my nexus 4. I just told you why it is harder for an unlocked phone to have it. I like the nexus 4 and love using it. You don't have to, but you also can just see it for what it is. No everyone is going to like every phone. You can complain about it all you want, but guess what the last time I checked Google could careless what you think.

It is not the best speced phone, but it works for a lot of people and Google, so I don't things are going to change.

And that means the iPhone stays in as the perfect google phone for my needs.

Guess we came full circle again!

bmac4
May 12, 2013, 10:55 PM
And that means the iPhone stays in as the perfect google phone for my needs.

Guess we came full circle again!

Sure what ever you say. You coming into every thread you can and complaining about the nexus 4 does nothing. We all get that you don't like it, but we also don't care. It does not meet your needs move along.

sentinelsx
May 12, 2013, 11:00 PM
Sure what ever you say. You coming into every thread you can and complaining about the nexus 4 does nothing. We all get that you don't like it, but we also don't care. It does not meet your needs move along.

Since when did "I" turn into "we"?

Who are the people that you command anyway?

If you don't like my "complaining" (which is far from it compared to what's going on most of the time), then take your advice and move along yourself.

bmac4
May 12, 2013, 11:09 PM
Since when did "I" turn into "we"?

Who are the people that you command anyway?

If you don't like my "complaining" (which is far from it compared to what's going on most of the time), then take your advice and move along yourself.

I am not giving you advice. There is no advice to give you, but every single thread I post in and I see your name you are trashing the nexus 4. It gets real old. I don't trash the iphone 5 every chance I get

cynics
May 13, 2013, 12:52 AM
The iphone has LTe and apple is not crying to the carriers for it.

You don't want more storage. Good for you. Bad for me. And since other flagships offer ways to have bigger storage, a minus for the nexus.

You don't need LTe. Good for you. I find 3G grueling slow.

Your opinion that "saying nexus 4 does not compare to flagships is crazy" is again just that, yor opinion because you are ok with something that lacks those features. Perhaps stock android is enough to make it "equal" to flagships for you but that is not true for everyone.

If I am enjoying 32gb, lte, camera, batter life in one device, and the nexus doesn't offer that because "hurr we cannot make our OEMs angry", well it is a compromise and fails to match the flagship experience I am used to.

No matter of justification can equate the two.

Is this a joke? I've been enjoying LTE for years now the iPhone has it is a requirement? You NEED it? Really?

I actually went from LTE speeds to an iPhone 4S WHEN THE 4S WAS NEW. But I guess that's just me, Apples love child AT&T with their largest faux 4G network but LTE is the deal breaker?

Why does anyone need LTE on an iPhone anyway? I mean I understand downloading torrents on windows phone or Android but what's the point on iOS? 20 mbs LTE = 10 mbs HPSA+ when you are downloading a 1 mb web page especially when its forced into a mobile mode. iOS still limits App Store downloads so really does it matter?

MacLappy
May 13, 2013, 01:30 AM
I did a quick read up on a couple of review sites regarding the Nexus 4 and have come to the conclusion that it is not for everyone.

The Nexus 4 is not for you if

- You want fast internet service on the go. It does not have LTE.
- You take a lot of photos or videos on your smartphone. It does not produce good photos or videos.
- You play a lot of 3D games. It thermal throttles. Not an issue if you are in a really really cold place i guess.
- You spend time watching videos or surfing the inter-web, a lot. Poor battery life.
- You intend to have a ton of apps, music, photos, videos, documents, books etc. It has a maximum capacity of only 16 Gb.
- You want to enjoy carrier subsidy on your smartphone. With most carriers, you still pay the same monthly amount with or without making use of said subsidy. Nexus 4 is not carrier subsided, at all.

The Nexus 4 is for you if

- You want a pure android experience.
- You want quick updates from google.
- You refuse to be lock into a contract. Nexus 4 is really affordable off contract compared to many smartphones of similar caliber.
- You spend most of your time on your smartphone, talking. Good battery life for talking.

Source
Battery life - http://blog.gsmarena.com/google-nexus-4-battles-through-our-battery-test-see-if-its-better-than-the-galaxy-nexus/
Thermal throttling performance issue - http://www.anandtech.com/show/6440/google-nexus-4-review/3
Poor Camera - http://www.gsmarena.com/google_nexus_4-review-860p9.php

On a side note I agreed with the OP on the S4, lovely screen but Samsung really needs to fix the lag issue.

sentinelsx
May 13, 2013, 09:15 AM
Is this a joke? I've been enjoying LTE for years now the iPhone has it is a requirement? You NEED it? Really?

I actually went from LTE speeds to an iPhone 4S WHEN THE 4S WAS NEW. But I guess that's just me, Apples love child AT&T with their largest faux 4G network but LTE is the deal breaker?

Why does anyone need LTE on an iPhone anyway? I mean I understand downloading torrents on windows phone or Android but what's the point on iOS? 20 mbs LTE = 10 mbs HPSA+ when you are downloading a 1 mb web page especially when its forced into a mobile mode. iOS still limits App Store downloads so really does it matter?

Because i don't live in the land of great HSPA+ speeds aka 'Murica?

Our HSPA sucks hard no matter which carrier you pick. After using LTE for a month now, i remember the feeling i had when i switched from 2G to 3G.

There are no "1MB" web pages unless you want stripped down sites only. I browse desktop sites regularly on my phone and by no means they are "1MB".

Ever tried going to the "wallpaper thread"? Tell me how great it is to load all those MBs. The difference in loading was night and day once i turned on LTE, i was blindly keeping it turned off.

Not to mention i now upload more stuff on my iPhone than before. My LTE upload speed is 3 times what my wifi upload speed is. Why should i not take advantage of it?

May be you use your "smartphone" for facebook only, but for me it is a tool. Better technology = better tool for me.

Justify as much as you want, but yeah i "need" LTE now and am glad Apple finally came to their stubborn senses and included it. I cannot imagine falling back to 3G and the horrible 5 second loading times for network apps (yes i am serious, 1 second vs. 5 seconds is a big deal for me).

----------

I am not giving you advice. There is no advice to give you, but every single thread I post in and I see your name you are trashing the nexus 4. It gets real old. I don't trash the iphone 5 every chance I get

Trashing? Tell me if i am wrong on all those points? Just because i didn't say "i agree with bmac4's opinion", i am trashing?

The fact i find LTE to be faster and better than my HSPA speeds is trashing? The fact i can take use-able pictures from my camera is trashing? The fact i can use my ample 32 GB and find the nexus 4 lacking in that aspect is trashing?

How many posts are here made by many people daily, re-iterating the same thing over and over? But you have to pick on me, because how dare i speak ill of the great nexus of which you are a fanboy?

Grow up.

----------

I
- You refuse to be lock into a contract.


I don't get this. I am contract free nowadays and have used a GS3, Nexus 4, IPhone 5 so far (not including the old smartphones i had before). I don't see a carrier clause stating i need to use a nexus 4 only to be contract free.

bmac4
May 13, 2013, 10:14 AM
Because google is OEMs' b!tch.

And this is the number one reason why I still have an iPhone despite running many android phones along side.

The day when google makes their own nexus and markets it as a competitor to rest of the flagships is the day I will switch completely. Until then, I hope ios7 is great or bb10 becomes a smash hit.

Here is one of your earlier posts. I don't call that first comment you made not trashing google. Yea sure you listed all the things you don't like about the nexus 4 which is fine, but you have to take it a bit further and make comments like those. Now you say things like this like you think Apple is not the same thing to carriers. I know it is hard to see when it is the phone you are using, and want to defend it when ever you can.

Lets take a look at my iPhone for a minute. I have the 5 on AT&T. There are some huge limitations to this model. First AT&T says no tethering unless you have a tethering plan. No unlimited data costumers can have a tethering plan. Guess what Apple says yes sir whatever you say. Yes I know that this is something AT&T has had in their policy for a while, but guess what. That did not stop Apple from making them break a lot of rules when they released the first iPhone. It just shows they let AT&T or whatever carrier what they want. Next the one feature Apple could not market enough FaceTime. It works on my iPhone 5, but only on wifi. One of the new addition to the iPhone 5 was being able to FaceTime over data. Guess what again AT&T says you have to have a plan for that. No unlimited users can have the plan. Apple again just says ok.

I understand that each of us have our opinions. Which is fine, but I never once call Apple what you called google. I also have not singled you out. Have you read all the post I make on macrumors? If not then you have no idea. Just look back at this thread for a min. SpineDoc77 and I have gone back and forth for a while on this thread. I am not a nexus fanboy. I have the iPhone 5 and note 2. You just seem to have this bitterness for the nexus phones. I am not sure why, but you better just get use to it and don't expect things to change. I don't like way the iPhone is layer out. Guess what millions of people do, so I have to get over it and move on. You don't see me posting post after post about how I hate it.

sentinelsx
May 13, 2013, 10:19 AM
Here is one of your earlier posts. I don't call that first comment you made not trashing google. Yea sure you listed all the things you don't like about the nexus 4 which is fine, but you have to take it a bit further and make comments like those. Now you say things like this like you think Apple is not the same thing to carriers. I know it is hard to see when it is the phone you are using, and want to defend it when ever you can.

Lets take a look at my iPhone for a minute. I have the 5 on AT&T. There are some huge limitations to this model. First AT&T says no tethering unless you have a tethering plan. No unlimited data costumers can have a tethering plan. Guess what Apple says yes sir whatever you say. Yes I know that this is something AT&T has had in their policy for a while, but guess what. That did not stop Apple from making them break a lot of rules when they released the first iPhone. It just shows they let AT&T or whatever carrier what they want. Next the one feature Apple could not market enough FaceTime. It works on my iPhone 5, but only on wifi. One of the new addition to the iPhone 5 was being able to FaceTime over data. Guess what again AT&T says you have to have a plan for that. No unlimited users can have the plan. Apple again just says ok.

I understand that each of us have our opinions. Which is fine, but I never once call Apple what you called google. I also have not singled you out. Have you read all the post I make on macrumors? If not then you have no idea. Just look back at this thread for a min.

I had tethering on my paltry 500MB plan and now on my 10 GB plan on an iPhone, facetime has always worked although i only used it thrice and it was not for me, but it works. So in my experience the iPhone doesn't take any dictations from the carrier. When apple released personal hotspot and facetime, none of the carriers imposed any restrictions.

And apple is not the one selling wireless plans to customers. If AT&T is not letting you use your unlimited plan if you have an iPhone, do you expect Apple to roll out their own network?

And what i said in that post is true. If google is not OEM dependent, why are they so scared to make a truly flagship device? Oh noes, the OEMs be angry!!!!

Here is my question. Did apple hold back facetime from adding to iPhone because the carriers wouldn't like it? No. They gave the feature.

Did apple hold back personal hotpot after they got it ready? No. All iPhones that got 4.3.3 got personal hotspot.

In both cases, it was the carrier that disabled the feature, but your phone got it no matter what.

Does google include a good camera, LTE, more storage in their nexus but it gets magically taken out by a carrier or OEM? no. Google simply doesn't want to compete with the OEM and holds back.

Once samsung kicks them to the curb after locking everyone in their S-ecosystem, as much as it sounds funny, they will probably finally come to senses.

bmac4
May 13, 2013, 10:53 AM
I had tethering on my paltry 500MB plan and now on my 10 GB plan on an iPhone, facetime has always worked although i only used it thrice and it was not for me, but it works. So in my experience the iPhone doesn't take any dictations from the carrier. When apple released personal hotspot and facetime, none of the carriers imposed any restrictions.

And apple is not the one selling wireless plans to customers. If AT&T is not letting you use your unlimited plan if you have an iPhone, do you expect Apple to roll out their own network?

And what i said in that post is true. If google is not OEM dependent, why are they so scared to make a truly flagship device? Oh noes, the OEMs be angry!!!!

Here is my question. Did apple hold back facetime from adding to iPhone because the carriers wouldn't like it? No. They gave the feature.

Did apple hold back personal hotpot after they got it ready? No. All iPhones that got 4.3.3 got personal hotspot.

In both cases, it was the carrier that disabled the feature, but your phone got it no matter what.

Does google include a good camera, LTE, more storage in their nexus but it gets magically taken out by a carrier or OEM? no. Google simply doesn't want to compete with the OEM and holds back.

Once samsung kicks them to the curb after locking everyone in their S-ecosystem, as much as it sounds funny, they will probably finally come to senses.

You dong get it. Yes your iPhone worked with Facetime and hotspots, but that is because you carrier allowed. Also if you took time to read my post you would see that I said unlimited data customers. It does not look like you are unlimited. On At&t both work with you are not unlimited. These are both things Apple could have stood their ground and said everyone that buys an iPhone gets these features.

Look at the first iPhone. It has no bloatware. Every smartphone from blackberry to Samsung had At&t bloatware, but guess what Apple said no. If you look into the contract you will see that At&t broke a lot of their rules for the iPhone. They are now letting the carrier say what can and can't happen.

You can say whatever you want about the nexus phones, but I hate to tell you this is how it has been since the nexus one. I don't see anything changing any time soon. Google runs the nexus line how they see it working, and it seems to be getting bigger and bigger each year. It is just funny how you don't want to see any fault in your iphone, but look at every detail you think is wrong with the nexus 4.

sentinelsx
May 13, 2013, 11:08 AM
You dong get it. Yes your iPhone worked with Facetime and hotspots, but that is because you carrier allowed. Also if you took time to read my post you would see that I said unlimited data customers. It does not look like you are unlimited. On At&t both work with you are not unlimited. These are both things Apple could have stood their ground and said everyone that buys an iPhone gets these features.

Look at the first iPhone. It has no bloatware. Every smartphone from blackberry to Samsung had At&t bloatware, but guess what Apple said no. If you look into the contract you will see that At&t broke a lot of their rules for the iPhone. They are now letting the carrier say what can and can't happen.

You can say whatever you want about the nexus phones, but I hate to tell you this is how it has been since the nexus one. I don't see anything changing any time soon. Google runs the nexus line how they see it working, and it seems to be getting bigger and bigger each year. It is just funny how you don't want to see any fault in your iphone, but look at every detail you think is wrong with the nexus 4.

Lol. It is you who didn't get it.

Whether the carrier allows it or not, the iPhone has the feature. It is not missing. Apple either gives you something or doesn't give you anything. The carrier doesn't tell apple "don't ever include FaceTime, don't ever include hotspot, don't ever include LTe chipset". Apple does it independently. Carriers don't dictate how the iPhone is built or how ios is developed.

When it comes to nexus, google has their hands tied thanks to making android open source. Now the OEMs will dictate how the nexus will be made.

And that means my iPhone with google apps is superior compared to the nexus TO ME as long as stock OS is concerned.

And if one doesn't care about stock, the rest of the skinned android phones absolutely destroy the nexus 4. No need to buy that compromise when you can enjoy an OEM flagship. But that means for people like me who would prefer a cleaner android, the choice is either deal with a compromise or don't buy it.

sentinelsx
May 13, 2013, 11:19 AM
very informative, but i dont completely agree with you, i think the s4 is an amazing device, fast and fluid. i don't mind the plastic body cause i will cover my device with a plastic cover. but i'd say that apple really needs to make a 4.5"+ device.

The plastic makes it lighter which is a good thing IMO.

A huge 5 inch screen that weighs so light. Pretty sure many people like that.

bmac4
May 13, 2013, 11:25 AM
Lol. It is you who didn't get it.

Whether the carrier allows it or not, the iPhone has the feature. It is not missing. Apple either gives you something or doesn't give you anything. The carrier doesn't tell apple "don't ever include FaceTime, don't ever include hotspot, don't ever include LTe chipset". Apple does it independently. Carriers don't dictate how the iPhone is built or how ios is developed.

When it comes to nexus, google has their hands tied thanks to making android open source. Now the OEMs will dictate how the nexus will be made.

And that means my iPhone with google apps is superior compared to the nexus TO ME as long as stock OS is concerned.

And if one doesn't care about stock, the rest of the skinned android phones absolutely destroy the nexus 4. No need to buy that compromise when you can enjoy an OEM flagship. But that means for people like me who would prefer a cleaner android, the choice is either deal with a compromise or don't buy it.

No Apple is allowing carriers to limit the iPhone. Yea sure they can add features, but if they don't work on carriers phones then what good does that do.

Again you can keep complaining, but you are in the minority of people that use the nexus line of devices. Just admit it. You like Apple better and you are just trolling. Look at most of the people that use the nexus 4. They are not coming on here complaining about what the nexus 4 does not have. The people you see complaining are the ones coming from an iPhone and expect android to be just like their iPhone. Sorry things work differently. Stay with your iPhone and don't worry about the nexus phones. I don't know why you think the phone should fit your needs. Just because it doesn't in your mind if makes it a bad phone. Ask the millions of nexus 4 owners how they like their phone. Don't even try and look at these threads and find iPhone users that are complaining. Cause they are just like you. Look at places like android forums filled with people that love their nexus 4.

sentinelsx
May 13, 2013, 12:03 PM
No Apple is allowing carriers to limit the iPhone. Yea sure they can add features, but if they don't work on carriers phones then what good does that do.

Yeah but i have a choice of carriers in most cases. Apple includes the features, they don't limit them. The carrier does. So blame the carrier.

Same with a galaxy. Samsung puts all those features in their phone. They may be limited by a carrier, but samsung gives me all those features, like it or not. They have become another OEM since the S3 which doesn't cut features because of a carrier.

When it comes to nexus, i have no choice. And i have an issue with that. Take it or leave it.



Again you can keep complaining, but you are in the minority of people that use the nexus line of devices. Just admit it.



And did i say that the mass consumers want it too? No. Does that mean i should not be allowed to talk about my discontent?Nno. Again why are you trying to police what YOU don't like?



You like Apple better and you are just trolling.


AHAHA. Nice one. I like apple better because i am talking about an iPhone. I can see you switching your tune to "you like Samsung better and you are just trolling" if i was mentioning the S4, because hey, anyone not happy with Lord Nexus is trolling.


Look at most of the people that use the nexus 4. They are not coming on here complaining about what the nexus 4 does not have. The people you see complaining are the ones coming from an iPhone and expect android to be just like their iPhone. Sorry things work differently.


Nope. I have seen plenty of people point out the deficiencies. Many of them are users of non-nexus android devices. Have you ever gone to XDA? Android Army? Android Central? Android Forums? I guess it is too hard to police all the forums at the same time eh?

Sure things work differently, and they might change. Who are you to decide? Are you Pichai or Page?



Stay with your iPhone and don't worry about the nexus phones. I don't know why you think the phone should fit your needs.


Because unlike you I am not a blind N4 worshipper. And i don't need advice from you about what to stay with. I will use what i like and say things about what i dislike. Again, take it or leave it.



Just because it doesn't in your mind if makes it a bad phone. Ask the millions of nexus 4 owners how they like their phone. Don't even try and look at these threads and find iPhone users that are complaining. Cause they are just like you. Look at places like android forums filled with people that love their nexus 4.

Millions? Ahah. Barely one million sales and millions of users? Please.

And just because it is perfect in your mind doesn't mean it is actually perfect. See how it goes both ways?

cynics
May 13, 2013, 12:34 PM
Why are we comparing a Nexus to an iPhone again? It's a 349 dollar phone vs a 649 dollar phone why would someone even compare them? If the nexus holds its own compared to the iPhone in any regard that's just embarrassing for the iPhone.

Isn't the topic the S4 compared to the iPhone?

sentinelsx
May 13, 2013, 12:41 PM
Why are we comparing a Nexus to an iPhone again? It's a 349 dollar phone vs a 649 dollar phone why would someone even compare them? If the nexus holds its own compared to the iPhone in any regard that's just embarrassing for the iPhone.

Isn't the topic the S4 compared to the iPhone?

Because someone mentioned something, i said something, and bmac4 got all touchy :)

As for the record, i don't think that the nexus can hold its own against the iPhone. It is really a $349 phone, made to be cheap by cutting stuff. Some people just don't like it when this is said.

bmac4
May 13, 2013, 01:00 PM
Yeah but i have a choice of carriers in most cases. Apple includes the features, they don't limit them. The carrier does. So blame the carrier.

Same with a galaxy. Samsung puts all those features in their phone. They may be limited by a carrier, but samsung gives me all those features, like it or not. They have become another OEM since the S3 which doesn't cut features because of a carrier.

When it comes to nexus, i have no choice. And i have an issue with that. Take it or leave it.



And did i say that the mass consumers want it too? No. Does that mean i should not be allowed to talk about my discontent?Nno. Again why are you trying to police what YOU don't like?



AHAHA. Nice one. I like apple better because i am talking about an iPhone. I can see you switching your tune to "you like Samsung better and you are just trolling" if i was mentioning the S4, because hey, anyone not happy with Lord Nexus is trolling.


Nope. I have seen plenty of people point out the deficiencies. Many of them are users of non-nexus android devices. Have you ever gone to XDA? Android Army? Android Central? Android Forums? I guess it is too hard to police all the forums at the same time eh?

Sure things work differently, and they might change. Who are you to decide? Are you Pichai or Page?



Because unlike you I am not a blind N4 worshipper. And i don't need advice from you about what to stay with. I will use what i like and say things about what i dislike. Again, take it or leave it.



Millions? Ahah. Barely one million sales and millions of users? Please.

And just because it is perfect in your mind doesn't mean it is actually perfect. See how it goes both ways?

You want to talk about not being limited. What about my nexus 4. I can tether when I want to cause it is built right into the phone. You keep talking like you have the option on your phone, but the data plan you put up is a limited one. Sure all carriers will allow tethering on limited plans. I am going to blame the carrier and Apple. If Apple was all big and powerful like everyone says they are then they would tell the carriers to kiss it and make an unlocked iPhone only. Oh wait then they would be limited by LTE and other things like the nexus is. Apple kisses the carriers butt so they can sell their phone on their network. You can claim it is all the carrier, but if Apple wanted to they could stand up to them. I don't like using my iPhone 5 much because I can't tether. I just got a bad experience from At&t and Apple. Does Apple want that? I don't think so. If you go and look through the iPhone section of MacRumors there are tons of people complaining about these same things. Blame it on the carrier that is what all iPhone fans say.

I will says this yet again I am not a nexus fanboy, or loyalist. I use the nexus 4 because it fits my needs. The iPhone is way to limited by Apple for me to enjoy for long periods of time. I see the nexus line for what it is. An unlocked phone that has the best software that android has to offer. Hardware comes second in importance on the nexus phones. This will always be the case. They are not selling to people like you that need the best camera on a smartphone. They are selling to people that want stock android. They are making us happy. They really don't need to make you happy because the only way you would like it is if it would like the iPhone.

I believe Google sold 1 million from the first couple of weeks of sales. That was how many they had really for sale before they ran out. That was months ago. That is why I know it is in the millions not million. Give me some kind of proof of just one million.

So you want to keep screaming about LTE. Do I need to remind you that the iPhone just got LTE. It is not like the iPhone has been sporting this around for years. Again they bent over for the carriers so they get LTE. Google did not want to do that again, so it became harder.

cynics
May 13, 2013, 01:05 PM
Because someone mentioned something, i said something, and bmac4 got all touchy :)

As for the record, i don't think that the nexus can hold its own against the iPhone. It is really a $349 phone, made to be cheap by cutting stuff. Some people just don't like it when this is said.

I agree to an extent.

However I feel that only applies to the camera and lack of LTE. And the lack of LTE is moot because its a world phone. There are dozens of carrier specific iPhones to make LTE work, there is only one Nexus 4. Once there is an all in one LTE radio the nexus will get it.

Comparing the rest to the iPhone 5 I don't think many corners were cut. It has a larger screen. Larger battery. More ram. Faster processor (don't forget I'm comparing the hardware not its use), NFC, wireless charging, and maybe some other stuff I'm forgetting.

IMO there is a lot more and more expensive hardware in the Nexus then the iPhone 5.

sentinelsx
May 13, 2013, 01:41 PM
You want to talk about not being limited. What about my nexus 4. I can tether when I want to cause it is built right into the phone. You keep talking like you have the option on your phone, but the data plan you put up is a limited one. Sure all carriers will allow tethering on limited plans. I am going to blame the carrier and Apple. If Apple was all big and powerful like everyone says they are then they would tell the carriers to kiss it and make an unlocked iPhone only. Oh wait then they would be limited by LTE and other things like the nexus is. Apple kisses the carriers butt so they can sell their phone on their network. You can claim it is all the carrier, but if Apple wanted to they could stand up to them. I don't like using my iPhone 5 much because I can't tether. I just got a bad experience from At&t and Apple. Does Apple want that? I don't think so. If you go and look through the iPhone section of MacRumors there are tons of people complaining about these same things. Blame it on the carrier that is what all iPhone fans say.

I will says this yet again I am not a nexus fanboy, or loyalist. I use the nexus 4 because it fits my needs. The iPhone is way to limited by Apple for me to enjoy for long periods of time. I see the nexus line for what it is. An unlocked phone that has the best software that android has to offer. Hardware comes second in importance on the nexus phones. This will always be the case. They are not selling to people like you that need the best camera on a smartphone. They are selling to people that want stock android. They are making us happy. They really don't need to make you happy because the only way you would like it is if it would like the iPhone.

I believe Google sold 1 million from the first couple of weeks of sales. That was how many they had really for sale before they ran out. That was months ago. That is why I know it is in the millions not million. Give me some kind of proof of just one million.

So you want to keep screaming about LTE. Do I need to remind you that the iPhone just got LTE. It is not like the iPhone has been sporting this around for years. Again they bent over for the carriers so they get LTE. Google did not want to do that again, so it became harder.

The iPhone "just" got LTe but the gs3 I used had LTe a cool 4 months earlier. And the s2 LTe had it one year earlier. So this is not about the iPhone, as much as you want to make it for easy potshots at me.

Where is your proof of "millions"?

And no, it wasn't one million in two weeks lol.

And here's the deal, if I buy a nexus 4, I still can't use an unlimited plan because there are none. Unless I want to put up with the crappy new entrants which have zero reception at my home. But the funny thing is their unlimited plans can be used with an iPhone.

So spin it whatever way, the nexus is still a compromise. I think I would rather use a One or S4 than compromise over saving a couple hundreds.

If I have the money and google doesn't want to cater to me by selling a true flagship nexus device, they are holding back and giving me a cheaper but compromised device. You don't like this? Well too bad, ain't gonna change how I feel about it.

----------

I agree to an extent.

However I feel that only applies to the camera and lack of LTE. And the lack of LTE is moot because its a world phone. There are dozens of carrier specific iPhones to make LTE work, there is only one Nexus 4. Once there is an all in one LTE radio the nexus will get it.

Comparing the rest to the iPhone 5 I don't think many corners were cut. It has a larger screen. Larger battery. More ram. Faster processor (don't forget I'm comparing the hardware not its use), NFC, wireless charging, and maybe some other stuff I'm forgetting.

IMO there is a lot more and more expensive hardware in the Nexus then the iPhone 5.

More expensive? Do you have a bill of materials to show that? Do you think that by spending an extra $2 over faster CPU but taking out a costly camera makes it "more expensive"?

bmac4
May 13, 2013, 01:44 PM
The iPhone "just" got LTe but the gs3 I used had LTe a cool 4 months earlier. And the s2 LTe had it one year earlier. So this is not about the iPhone, as much as you want to make it for easy potshots at me.

Where is your proof of "millions"?

And no, it wasn't one million in two weeks lol.

And here's the deal, if I buy a nexus 4, I still can't use an unlimited plan because there are none. Unless I want to put up with the crappy new entrants which have zero reception at my home. But the funny thing is their unlimited plans can be used with an iPhone.

So spin it whatever way, the nexus is still a compromise. I think I would rather use a One or S4 than compromise over saving a couple hundreds.

If I have the money and google doesn't want to cater to me by selling a true flagship nexus device, they are holding back and giving me a cheaper but compromised device. You don't like this? Well too bad, ain't gonna change how I feel about it.

----------



More expensive? Do you have a bill of materials to show that? Do you think that by spending an extra $2 over faster CPU but taking out a costly camera makes it "more expensive"?

OK well you want to continue to keep missing the fact that the nexus 4 is a true world phone that is fine. None of the other phones you listed are that. If you want to say it is a compromise then go right ahead. You just don't understand how carrier and unlocked phones work. The nexus 4 can work anywhere in the world with a gsm Sim card. All those carrier phones you have cannot. Sorry but all your phone are a compromise to me.

sentinelsx
May 13, 2013, 01:52 PM
OK well you want to continue to keep missing the fact that the nexus 4 is a true world phone that is fine. None of the other phones you listed are that. If you want to say it is a compromise then go right ahead. You just don't understand how carrier and unlocked phones work. The nexus 4 can work anywhere in the world with a gsm Sim card. All those carrier phones you have cannot. Sorry but all your phone are a compromise to me.

Really?

Have you travelled overseas?

Both the Samsung gs3 and iPhone 5 work flawlessly in the Asian country I am from. How do I know? Because I personally used the gs3 LTe there (max 3G speeds but everything works, no LTe there yet). And the ip5 is bought and used by all the rich guys (because it is a status symbol in some places) over there too.

I used my iPhone 4 over there two years ago.

Brother took his htc one x last year and it worked flawless.

Do you even know "unlocked" isn't a magical word for "works everywhere". You can "unlock" any modern phone and it works as a world phone.

That was hilarious. More blind nexus worshipping I see.

cynics
May 13, 2013, 01:56 PM
More expensive? Do you have a bill of materials to show that? Do you think that by spending an extra $2 over faster CPU but taking out a costly camera makes it "more expensive"?

How much was the wireless charger and NFC in an iPhone? It obviously doesn't have them. So I'd say that's more expensive would you?

The batteries are the same tech so that's more expensive.

Twice the amount of ram. Obviously more expensive.

The screen is more likely more expensive just from its size. I'm just assuming that though.

The Nexus 4 camera isn't as good but its not completely terrible either. The iPhone has the best camera or very close too it so anything else is technically crappier in comparison.

Unless you are saying a different radio and moderately but unarguably better camera is 350 dollars? It seems that you keep going back to the Nexus's camera when you mention cutting corners, then over look everything else which is technically better.

bmac4
May 13, 2013, 02:12 PM
Really?

Have you travelled overseas?

Both the Samsung gs3 and iPhone 5 work flawlessly in the Asian country I am from. How do I know? Because I personally used the gs3 LTe there (max 3G speeds but everything works, no LTe there yet). And the ip5 is bought and used by all the rich guys (because it is a status symbol in some places) over there too.

I used my iPhone 4 over there two years ago.

Brother took his htc one x last year and it worked flawless.

Do you even know "unlocked" isn't a magical word for "works everywhere". You can "unlock" any modern phone and it works as a world phone.

That was hilarious. More blind nexus worshipping I see.

Yea you just said it. That LTE is a must have does not work across the world. You bought an unlocked iPhone 5, but it was based on your carriers LTE not the world. You could not cone to the states and have its LTE work on all our LTE towers. What I am saying is the nexus phone was made to work around the world on gsm networks. That LTE you praise so much does not work.

tjl3
May 13, 2013, 02:19 PM
How much was the wireless charger and NFC in an iPhone? It obviously doesn't have them. So I'd say that's more expensive would you?

The batteries are the same tech so that's more expensive.

Twice the amount of ram. Obviously more expensive.

The screen is more likely more expensive just from its size. I'm just assuming that though.

The Nexus 4 camera isn't as good but its not completely terrible either. The iPhone has the best camera or very close too it so anything else is technically crappier in comparison.

Unless you are saying a different radio and moderately but unarguably better camera is 350 dollars? It seems that you keep going back to the Nexus's camera when you mention cutting corners, then over look everything else which is technically better.

I wish Google would just design a Nexus phone internally. There is no reason not to any more. With all due respect, a Nexus will never be more feature filled than any OEM flagship. And there is little aside from the unlocked bootloader and price that keeps it competitive against other flagships. The success of other flagships has also proven that consumers don't need to be on the latest and greatest, so unless a big new feature is coming in the next Android release they need to find a way to generate buzz for their device.

I was always skeptical as to how much "design" Google was actually involved in with the Nexus 4. I think a personally designed and sourced Google Nexus would oversee some of the shortcomings. Also I doubt the Nexus 4 cost $350 or that LG even sells to Google at cost.

As for a world phone, it's nice and all, but it's much more convenient to be a world reaching phone like the other three than a world phone. I've always argued that OEMs that are serious about developing a flagship device need to consider availability in all markets and not just an unlocked GSM phone.


Yea you just said it. That LTE is a must have does not work across the world. You bought an unlocked iPhone 5, but it was based on your carriers LTE not the world. You could not cone to the states and have its LTE work on all our LTE towers. What I am saying is the nexus phone was made to work around the world on gsm networks. That LTE you praise so much does not work.

That doesn't make my iPhone 5 any less of a world phone. Also, you can't tether on AT&T with unlimited data no matter what phone you use.

rtomyj
May 13, 2013, 02:25 PM
Odd.

I have a galaxy note 2 and an i5. The note, stock, is ever bit as fast. The animations are just different. If I turn off the animations of the note 2, it will open the same app faster than when I use the i5. The difference is ever so slight, but when done next to each other at the same time... The note wins.

Your dislike of looking for apps is a product of your preference and not the operating system. The i5 has a great keyboard... But it really pales in comparison to SwiftKey on android. SwiftKey has better accuracy, prediction and a built on swipe feature.

I don't think he means opening apps. Swiping all around is better on iOS. For those of you saying vanilla android is better. Um, the Nexus 7 is vanilla and mine has noticeable scrolling lag on chrome and rendering issues for activities/fragments on apps.

Swiftkey is NOT more responsive than iOS keyboard. The only comparable keyboard for accuracy is the stock Android keyboard. Swype is Lso a gimmick in my eyes since when I use it (slowly so I see what I'm actually inputting) it gets words wrongs. When I do it fast, it still gets words wrong. Prediction, I'll give to you. Though for me, it has been pretty good on iOS and I use it to type papers and what not.

bmac4
May 13, 2013, 02:45 PM
I wish Google would just design a Nexus phone internally. There is no reason not to any more. With all due respect, a Nexus will never be more feature filled than any OEM flagship. And there is little aside from the unlocked bootloader and price that keeps it competitive against other flagships. The success of other flagships has also proven that consumers don't need to be on the latest and greatest, so unless a big new feature is coming in the next Android release they need to find a way to generate buzz for their device.

I was always skeptical as to how much "design" Google was actually involved in with the Nexus 4. I think a personally designed and sourced Google Nexus would oversee some of the shortcomings. Also I doubt the Nexus 4 cost $350 or that LG even sells to Google at cost.

As for a world phone, it's nice and all, but it's much more convenient to be a world reaching phone like the other three than a world phone. I've always argued that OEMs that are serious about developing a flagship device need to consider availability in all markets and not just an unlocked GSM phone.




That doesn't make my iPhone 5 any less of a world phone. Also, you can't tether on AT&T with unlimited data no matter what phone you use.

I am not saying it does make yours less of a world phone, but the iphone was made to work with certain bands of LTE depending on which carrier you bought the phone with. In the US you can buy an unlocked GSM iphone, but until the Tmobile version came out the LTE only worked on Att. Google wants nothing to do with carriers. They can do whatever they want with the phone in terms of software, and don't have to worry about what a carrier wants.

I know you can not tether on any unlimited data plan, but I can on my nexus 4 because it is unlocked free from AT&T phone. I have my iphone 5 unlocked from AT&T but guess what I still can't tether with it. That is what I have been trying to say this whole time. Sure Apple and its fans blame AT&T, but they still do whatever AT&T tells them. Google having a true unlocked phone no carrier what so ever telling them what to do. Is open to do what they want. I will continue tethering on my nexus 4.

Dontazemebro
May 13, 2013, 03:48 PM
Let's not forget, the Nexus was originally made with developers in mind. It's a developers phone first hence a lack of all the bells & whistles you see with HTC Sense and Samsung touchwiz . It was meant to be low cost and lacking features for a reason, and no it has nothing to do with angering the oem's (I laugh at that one)

It was never meant to be a flagship device.

bmac4
May 13, 2013, 03:58 PM
Let's not forget, the Nexus was originally made with developers in mind. It's a developers phone first hence a lack of all the bells & whistles you see with HTC Sense and Samsung touchwiz . It was meant to be low cost and lacking features for a reason, and no it has nothing to do with angering the oem's (I laugh at that one)

It was never meant to be a flagship device.

I said this once on this forum, and was told that maybe the nexus one was that but because this was such a cheap price for the phone. They are selling to consumers. I agree this is a very basic smartphone with outstanding software. I love the software could careless about a camera. Sure LTE would be nice, but it is a huge battery hog so no thanks.

jrswizzle
May 13, 2013, 04:20 PM
I said this once on this forum, and was told that maybe the nexus one was that but because this was such a cheap price for the phone. They are selling to consumers. I agree this is a very basic smartphone with outstanding software. I love the software could careless about a camera. Sure LTE would be nice, but it is a huge battery hog so no thanks.

Wrong.

This argument is pointless. First, one is selling their phone at $650 unlocked for a profit, while the other is selling at $350 to break even (maybe eek out a small profit).

The POM on each is likely similar, though I'd reckon Apple's is slightly higher given the materials used (and painstaking build process), the camera, the LTE radio and the display (yes despite size, the iP5 display uses new tech and a new process that is likely to up the cost).

You also have to factor in Apple's marketing costs, R&D costs, costs to ship and the fact they sell them not only direct but also through carriers, and that price difference becomes much more justified.

Regardless of all that however, Bmac and the poster above him are absolutely correct - the Nexus 4 isn't a flagship. Google doesn't create a flagship. They create a dev phone through another OEM (who likely see the project as a side-job that would give them free pub and cred in return for breaking even on the materials and build) which just so happens to be popular with a small portion of the smartphone buying public.

It isn't designed to be a flagship, nor does it sell like one (or is sold like one). I mean, how large is LG's marketshare? They're behind HTC here in the US, and HTC hasn't had a big seller in years (that changes this year though ;)). The Nexus 4 has likely sold a few million, but given its been out since November (and in roughly that same time period, the iPhone 5 has sold close to 40 million, the GS3 has sold tens of millions near the end of its first year), you can't expect it to be compared to a flagship.....hell, its got pretty good specs and is priced super low and it still doesn't sell.

It's not a flagship. At the $350 pricepoint, its a great smartphone. If it were priced at $650? It wouldn't even be worth a look.....at least, I would never look.....and I have one ;)

----------

I wish Google would just design a Nexus phone internally. There is no reason not to any more. With all due respect, a Nexus will never be more feature filled than any OEM flagship. And there is little aside from the unlocked bootloader and price that keeps it competitive against other flagships. The success of other flagships has also proven that consumers don't need to be on the latest and greatest, so unless a big new feature is coming in the next Android release they need to find a way to generate buzz for their device.

I was always skeptical as to how much "design" Google was actually involved in with the Nexus 4. I think a personally designed and sourced Google Nexus would oversee some of the shortcomings. Also I doubt the Nexus 4 cost $350 or that LG even sells to Google at cost.

As for a world phone, it's nice and all, but it's much more convenient to be a world reaching phone like the other three than a world phone. I've always argued that OEMs that are serious about developing a flagship device need to consider availability in all markets and not just an unlocked GSM phone.




That doesn't make my iPhone 5 any less of a world phone. Also, you can't tether on AT&T with unlimited data no matter what phone you use.

That's actually incorrect.....I was able to tether on my Nexus 4 (bought from Google) and I have an unlimited plan.

Didn't think it would actually work, but I tried it out and sure enough.....

bmac4
May 13, 2013, 04:26 PM
Wrong.

This argument is pointless. First, one is selling their phone at $650 unlocked for a profit, while the other is selling at $350 to break even (maybe eek out a small profit).

The POM on each is likely similar, though I'd reckon Apple's is slightly higher given the materials used (and painstaking build process), the camera, the LTE radio and the display (yes despite size, the iP5 display uses new tech and a new process that is likely to up the cost).

You also have to factor in Apple's marketing costs, R&D costs, costs to ship and the fact they sell them not only direct but also through carriers, and that price difference becomes much more justified.

Regardless of all that however, Bmac and the poster above him are absolutely correct - the Nexus 4 isn't a flagship. Google doesn't create a flagship. They create a dev phone through another OEM (who likely see the project as a side-job that would give them free pub and cred in return for breaking even on the materials and build) which just so happens to be popular with a small portion of the smartphone buying public.

It isn't designed to be a flagship, nor does it sell like one (or is sold like one). I mean, how large is LG's marketshare? They're behind HTC here in the US, and HTC hasn't had a big seller in years (that changes this year though ;)). The Nexus 4 has likely sold a few million, but given its been out since November (and in roughly that same time period, the iPhone 5 has sold close to 40 million, the GS3 has sold tens of millions), you can't expect it to be compared to a flagship.....hell, its got pretty good specs and is priced super low and it still doesn't sell.

It's not a flagship. At the $350 pricepoint, its a great smartphone. If it were priced at $650? It wouldn't even be worth a look.....at least, I would never look.....and I have one ;)

----------



That's actually incorrect.....I was able to tether on my Nexus 4 (bought from Google) and I have an unlimited plan.

Didn't think it would actually work, but I tried it out and sure enough.....

LTE being a battery hog is true for a lot of phones. Yes I know Apple figured it out more so then a lot of the android phones, but look at the galaxy nexus. The GSM one was much better on battery while the Verizon LTE one sucked. I think the new chips are more power efficient, but it still uses more battery than 3G.

Now I agree 100% that the nexus 4 is a dev phone. It is not suppose to be sold like the iphone and flagship android phones. It is there to be a showcase for software. I like it that way. If google started to worry about hardware and making everyone happy with that too. Things might not be as good on the software side.

jrswizzle
May 13, 2013, 04:31 PM
LTE being a battery hog is true for a lot of phones. Yes I know Apple figured it out more so then a lot of the android phones, but look at the galaxy nexus. The GSM one was much better on battery while the Verizon LTE one sucked. I think the new chips are more power efficient, but it still uses more battery than 3G.

Now I agree 100% that the nexus 4 is a dev phone. It is not suppose to be sold like the iphone and flagship android phones. It is there to be a showcase for software. I like it that way. If google started to worry about hardware and making everyone happy with that too. Things might not be as good on the software side.

You're talking about a phone that is over a year and a half old......

New chips don't eat up the battery. Why do you think Apple waited to implement LTE? They didn't want to have that battery issue everyone else was having. And since, we've seen LTE phones with similar if not better battery life - all with bigger, better displays and beefier processors.

To say LTE is still a battery hog isn't accurate.

As for vanilla Android - that's great you like it that way. I like the Nexus 4 as well, though I feel its a bit unpolished. The whole point is you have freedom to customize as you will, leaving it feeling unfinished out of the box.

Most people just prefer a more polished out-of-the-box experience. I'm not saying the Nexus 4 isn't usable when first opened, of course it is. But generally speaking OEM skins (most of them - depending on your preference) offer more polish initially - and Apple CERTAINLY does with the iPhone 5.

bmac4
May 13, 2013, 04:37 PM
You're talking about a phone that is over a year and a half old......

New chips don't eat up the battery. Why do you think Apple waited to implement LTE? They didn't want to have that battery issue everyone else was having. And since, we've seen LTE phones with similar if not better battery life - all with bigger, better displays and beefier processors.

To say LTE is still a battery hog isn't accurate.

Ok so it may not be a hog, but it still eats up battery faster than the 3G. I don't think that is why the nexus 4 does not have it, but if they do decide to add it then they be careful it does not effect the battery.

----------



As for vanilla Android - that's great you like it that way. I like the Nexus 4 as well, though I feel its a bit unpolished. The whole point is you have freedom to customize as you will, leaving it feeling unfinished out of the box.

Most people just prefer a more polished out-of-the-box experience. I'm not saying the Nexus 4 isn't usable when first opened, of course it is. But generally speaking OEM skins (most of them - depending on your preference) offer more polish initially - and Apple CERTAINLY does with the iPhone 5.

Yea I agree, but the nexus line is not looking for the polish right out of the box. Google leaves that for the OEMs to do with their phones. I like being able to do whatever I want with my nexus 4. I think that is part of the appeal of the nexus 4.

jrswizzle
May 13, 2013, 04:39 PM
Ok so it may not be a hog, but it still eats up battery faster than the 3G. I don't think that is why the nexus 4 does not have it, but if they do decide to add it then they be careful it does not effect the battery.

It doesn't eat battery faster! lol.....either it doesn't or batteries are better now so it doesn't matter.

The end result isn't LESS battery life on new LTE devices, rather most new devices (2012+) have BETTER battery life than their pre-2012 smartphone counterparts....

And the Nexus doesn't have it because of cost, IMO. Though the rumor is they'll be releasing a new Nexus 4 at I/O with LTE and 32 GB of storage.

----------


Yea I agree, but the nexus line is not looking for the polish right out of the box. Google leaves that for the OEMs to do with their phones. I like being able to do whatever I want with my nexus 4. I think that is part of the appeal of the nexus 4.

You are exactly right. To be quite honest, I'm not sure what you and sentinel are fighting about!

bmac4
May 13, 2013, 04:41 PM
It doesn't eat battery faster! lol.....either it doesn't or batteries are better now so it doesn't matter.

The end result isn't LESS battery life on new LTE devices, rather most new devices (2012+) have BETTER battery life than their pre-2012 smartphone counterparts....

And the Nexus doesn't have it because of cost, IMO. Though the rumor is they'll be releasing a new Nexus 4 at I/O with LTE and 32 GB of storage.

Then why in the setting of the iphone 5 does it say turn of LTE to save batter?

----------

It doesn't eat battery faster! lol.....either it doesn't or batteries are better now so it doesn't matter.

The end result isn't LESS battery life on new LTE devices, rather most new devices (2012+) have BETTER battery life than their pre-2012 smartphone counterparts....

And the Nexus doesn't have it because of cost, IMO. Though the rumor is they'll be releasing a new Nexus 4 at I/O with LTE and 32 GB of storage.

----------



You are exactly right. To be quite honest, I'm not sure what you and sentinel are fighting about!

He says that the nexus phones should be just as good as the flagships hardware wise. I am saying that is my what they are for.

jrswizzle
May 13, 2013, 04:43 PM
Then why in the setting of the iphone 5 does it say turn of LTE to save batter?

I don't know what menu you look at, but it doesn't say that anywhere on mine. (See pic attached below).

I typically turn my LTE off at the baseball game because everyone and their dog is on AT&T's LTE network, but no one is on the HSPA - I get better speeds on HSPA in those crowded situations.

He says that the nexus phones should be just as good as the flagships hardware wise. I am saying that is my what they are for.

He wishes he could have a Nexus phone with the specs of a flagship....what's wrong with that?

jrswizzle
May 13, 2013, 04:43 PM
Here's the attachment:

bmac4
May 13, 2013, 05:00 PM
I don't know what menu you look at, but it doesn't say that anywhere on mine. (See pic attached below).

I typically turn my LTE off at the baseball game because everyone and their dog is on AT&T's LTE network, but no one is on the HSPA - I get better speeds on HSPA in those crowded situations.



He wishes he could have a Nexus phone with the specs of a flagship....what's wrong with that?

Nothing is wrong with it, but complaining and saying the nexus devices are made with corners cut is crazy. I understand he want flagship hardware, but that does not mean google cuts corners to make the nexus 4. They built it the way they wanted it. He keeps says they are making the nexus phone less so they OEMs will be happy. He says they want their flagships to be better than the nexus. I disagree.

The LTE thing on iOS. I thought for sure at some point it said that. Maybe I am wrong. Oh well.

tjl3
May 13, 2013, 05:20 PM
That's actually incorrect.....I was able to tether on my Nexus 4 (bought from Google) and I have an unlimited plan.

Didn't think it would actually work, but I tried it out and sure enough.....

That's messed up! I received a text from AT&T about forcing me off of my grandfathered plan! Not that it actually matters any more, coverage in my home and at work was awful so I had to move to Verizon.

Surprisingly this doesn't get mentioned more: eventho I don't think it is a deal breaker, the fact that the Verizon iPhone 5 cannot do data and voice simultaneously has been a disappointment. I know it is suggested they could've remedied this w/ another internal antenna, but I think Apple dropped the ball on this one.

adnbek
May 13, 2013, 05:32 PM
Nothing is wrong with it, but complaining and saying the nexus devices are made with corners cut is crazy. I understand he want flagship hardware, but that does not mean google cuts corners to make the nexus 4. They built it the way they wanted it. He keeps says they are making the nexus phone less so they OEMs will be happy. He says they want their flagships to be better than the nexus. I disagree.

The LTE thing on iOS. I thought for sure at some point it said that. Maybe I am wrong. Oh well.

This is incorrect, at least for the iPhone 5 and phones that would use the same 3G/LTE combo chip. (Dunno if there are other phones doing so. AFAIK, not yet.)

On the iPhone 5, assuming all other things being equal (I elaborate further below), the difference in power consumption between LTE and 3G modes is negligible. In fact, all else being equal, you get better battery life on LTE due to the data loading faster, meaning the antenna and chip don't have to be powered for as long. They can power down back to idle much quicker.

The only scenario where 3G would be better for battery life has to do with signal strength. In areas where you get poor LTE reception but max bars on 3G, you'd definitely save battery by being in 3G mode, due to the antenna using more power on LTE where signal strength is weak.

bmac4
May 13, 2013, 05:57 PM
This is incorrect, at least for the iPhone 5 and phones that would use the same 3G/LTE combo chip. (Dunno if there are other phones doing so. AFAIK, not yet.)

On the iPhone 5, assuming all other things being equal (I elaborate further below), the difference in power consumption between LTE and 3G modes is negligible. In fact, all else being equal, you get better battery life on LTE due to the data loading faster, meaning the antenna and chip don't have to be powered for as long. They can power down back to idle much quicker.

The only scenario where 3G would be better for battery life has to do with signal strength. In areas where you get poor LTE reception but max bars on 3G, you'd definitely save battery by being in 3G mode, due to the antenna using more power on LTE where signal strength is weak.

OK maybe so. I have seen no proof that LTE does not use up more battery than 3g. You guys may be right, bit no one has shown me anything saying this. I know for a fact my iPhone 5 gets worse batter than my iPhone 4 did. Noe this could be because of bigger screen, and processor. But Apple added a bigger battery so I thought that would take care of that. Again I could be wrong.

sentinelsx
May 13, 2013, 06:13 PM
How much was the wireless charger and NFC in an iPhone? It obviously doesn't have them. So I'd say that's more expensive would you?

The batteries are the same tech so that's more expensive.

Twice the amount of ram. Obviously more expensive.

The screen is more likely more expensive just from its size. I'm just assuming that though.

The Nexus 4 camera isn't as good but its not completely terrible either. The iPhone has the best camera or very close too it so anything else is technically crappier in comparison.

Unless you are saying a different radio and moderately but unarguably better camera is 350 dollars? It seems that you keep going back to the Nexus's camera when you mention cutting corners, then over look everything else which is technically better.

Build quality, screen, camera etc.

The NFC and other chips cost probably a few cents more on the nexus. Ram, CPU, and radio etc aren't the biggest costs in a smartphone. A CPU costs around $2-$5 when bought in wholesale and same for ram.

----------

Yea you just said it. That LTE is a must have does not work across the world. You bought an unlocked iPhone 5, but it was based on your carriers LTE not the world. You could not cone to the states and have its LTE work on all our LTE towers. What I am saying is the nexus phone was made to work around the world on gsm networks. That LTE you praise so much does not work.

And the rest of the phones do not work on the gsm networks world wide?

You said nexus is special because it is unlocked and works around the world and others don't.

Then I show you others work too. The fact LTe doesn't is because the carriers don't have it, but hspa does. Because all of those phones have the frequencies that make the nexus so special for you. Except there is nothing special about an unlocked nexus. It is no different from a sim unlocked galaxy s3 or 2 even.

bmac4
May 13, 2013, 06:23 PM
Build quality, screen, camera etc.

The NFC and other chips cost probably a few cents more on the nexus. Ram, CPU, and radio etc aren't the biggest costs in a smartphone. A CPU costs around $2-$5 when bought in wholesale and same for ram.

----------



And the rest of the phones do not work on the gsm networks world wide?

You said nexus is special because it is unlocked and works around the world and others don't.

Then I show you others work too. The fact LTe doesn't is because the carriers don't have it, but hspa does. Because all of those phones have the frequencies that make the nexus so special for you. Except there is nothing special about an unlocked nexus. It is no different from a sim unlocked galaxy s3 or 2 even.

Yea here in the states people don't buy phones like iPhone unlocked. Nexus 4 is one of the few phone sold unlocked out of the box. Your iPhone is the greatest phone ever made. You are always right and the nexus is crap. I guess that covers everything you want people to say. Sorry you have no clue what me and everyone else have been saying about the nexus line. They are not made to suit your taste, so why bother. They never will be so keep your iPhone and stop using android. It is really very simple.

adnbek
May 13, 2013, 06:52 PM
OK maybe so. I have seen no proof that LTE does not use up more battery than 3g. You guys may be right, bit no one has shown me anything saying this. I know for a fact my iPhone 5 gets worse batter than my iPhone 4 did. Noe this could be because of bigger screen, and processor. But Apple added a bigger battery so I thought that would take care of that. Again I could be wrong.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6330/the-iphone-5-review/13

And if you go to the previous page, it explains why the 5 does worse than the 4 in certain situations. The CPU/GPU have a much larger power profile dynamic range and at their highest frequencies, the 5 will consume a lot more power than the 4 and will drain the battery quicker when they're pushed to their limits. At idle and lower frequencies, the 5 uses much less than the 4 however.

So how quick the phone goes to idle really determines its overall battery performance. If playing a high intensity game however where both phones are pushed to their max constantly, the 5 will definitely drain quicker. If you're doing stuff that allows the GPU/CPU to throttle down back to idle faster than the 4, it's the opposite.

Again, back to the 3g/LTE discussion, most battery drainage on LTE is due to signal strength being worse than on 3G in many areas, forcing the antenna to use more power to keep the connection alive. That's definitely the only reason people find their battery draining quicker on LTE. A 1-2 bar signal on LTE will kill your battery faster than a 5-bar 3G one. Doesn't help that LTE has poor penetrative qualities so, inside of buildings, that signal strength will drop measurably faster on LTE than on 3G.

EDIT: Not to mention the drain caused by the phone being forced to switch modes in the situations described above. Inside the mall for instance, I'll find my phone go from LTE to 3G due to loss of signal, then back to LTE when it can, then back to 3G if signal gets too weak again. Every time it has to switch, the antenna is forced out of idle mode to perform the handshake/send off.

Apple even states battery consumption is similar (in certain tests under ideal signal strength conditions) with both when they state 8hrs of web browsing on both 3G and LTE (http://www.apple.com/iphone/specs.html). The anandtech test shows significantly worse life on 3G than LTE in their specific test probably due to keeps the antennas active (data heavy sites) for much longer than the test Apple used (http://www.apple.com/iphone/battery.html).

adnbek
May 13, 2013, 07:17 PM
I am not saying it does make yours less of a world phone, but the iphone was made to work with certain bands of LTE depending on which carrier you bought the phone with. In the US you can buy an unlocked GSM iphone, but until the Tmobile version came out the LTE only worked on Att. Google wants nothing to do with carriers. They can do whatever they want with the phone in terms of software, and don't have to worry about what a carrier wants.

In GSM mode, both phones are equally universal and both can be bought unlocked out of the box. (or unlocked after the fact) There is absolutely no difference between the two.

As for LTE fragmentation, you can't fault Apple for that. The technology didn't exist to have one chip that can support all the bands used worlwide. Don't forget that LTE is still a technology in its infancy. Only recently has a new chip (http://gigaom.com/2013/02/21/qualcomms-new-radio-chip-gets-us-one-step-closer-to-a-global-4g-phone/) been designed that can support a multitude of bands at once. That wasn't the case back when the 5 came out, hence why they had to release different models for different bands.

Pretty similar to when GSM chips weren't universal back in the day. Same thing.

bmac4
May 13, 2013, 07:56 PM
In GSM mode, both phones are equally universal and both can be bought unlocked out of the box. (or unlocked after the fact) There is absolutely no difference between the two.

As for LTE fragmentation, you can't fault Apple for that. The technology didn't exist to have one chip that can support all the bands used worlwide. Don't forget that LTE is still a technology in its infancy. Only recently has a new chip (http://gigaom.com/2013/02/21/qualcomms-new-radio-chip-gets-us-one-step-closer-to-a-global-4g-phone/) been designed that can support a multitude of bands at once. That wasn't the case back when the 5 came out, hence why they had to release different models for different bands.

Pretty similar to when GSM chips weren't universal back in the day. Same thing.

Yea I know. I am just saying it has LTE because of the carriers. There is really nothing like the nexus 4 in terms of being purely unlocked. From what I understand getting LTE on a phone that is not on a carrier is pretty hard. I know the nexus 4 does not have some things but I am ok with that.

cynics
May 13, 2013, 08:03 PM
The POM on each is likely similar, though I'd reckon Apple's is slightly higher given the materials used (and painstaking build process), the camera, the LTE radio and the display (yes despite size, the iP5 display uses new tech and a new process that is likely to up the cost).

Its no secret that about half of the cost of the iPhone is pure profit, some estimate much higher.

If that weren't the case the cellular iPad 4 which has better tech and much more material (same screen much bigger, huge battery, bigger case, basically bigger and better everything) wouldn't be significantly less expensive. And there is still a huge profit margin on that.

That's the difference. Profit.

And once again your also leaving out the NFC, and wireless charger. Am I supposed to believe the processor and ram in the N4 are just a couple no big deal cents but the VASTLY superior camera in the iPhone 5 is big time cost difference? Even you have to admit that's a bit silly to say.

I don't really agree with the painstaking build process either. I've taken every iPhone apart and it takes an amateur like myself few minutes using ifixit.com directions. Not much to it really. There are plenty of things I wouldn't even attempt like a Swiss watch, but a phone assembled on a Chinese factory line in under a minute isn't one of them.

Some of these Asian factories are quite amazing. I bought a Yamaha R6 and I saw an episode of "How it's made" where they were building them. The bike I paid 9k for took 46 minutes to build, test and ship. Painstaking?Yes. Expensive? Quite the opposite.

adnbek
May 13, 2013, 08:38 PM
I don't really agree with the painstaking build process either. I've taken every iPhone apart and it takes an amateur like myself few minutes using ifixit.com directions. Not much to it really. There are plenty of things I wouldn't even attempt like a Swiss watch, but a phone assembled on a Chinese factory line in under a minute isn't one of them.

Some of these Asian factories are quite amazing. I bought a Yamaha R6 and I saw an episode of "How it's made" where they were building them. The bike I paid 9k for took 46 minutes to build, test and ship. Painstaking?Yes. Expensive? Quite the opposite.

Assembly is not the expensive part of the process. It's the design, engineering and machining of the aluminum shell. It's also the design and engineering of the custom parts that need to be made specifically to fit perfectly within the confines of said shell.

I'll use an analogy with laptops. Here are examples of Apple laptops here (http://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/ULSBVxavYsRYXtpN.huge_.jpeg) and here (http://iheartapple.com/e/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/macbookpro-17inch-inside.jpg) compared to the innards of typical PC laptops (https://www.google.ca/search?q=inside+laptop&safe=off&client=safari&sa=N&rls=en&biw=1280&bih=909&hl=en&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&ei=J5SRUcvqEaiMyQHDpYDgDg&ved=0CDEQsAQ). Notice a difference? I sure do.

For a design and engineering freak like me, there clearly is a difference in the design precision and engineering it takes to manufacture parts to fit so tightly and perfectly like that. There is also a cost difference as you can't just use standard parts to achieve this. They must be custom made and that is not a cheap endeavour. It's a lot cheaper to just put together a bunch of standard parts and slap a case around the final product, instead of doing it the other way around.

sentinelsx
May 13, 2013, 11:31 PM
Yea here in the states people don't buy phones like iPhone unlocked. Nexus 4 is one of the few phone sold unlocked out of the box. Your iPhone is the greatest phone ever made. You are always right and the nexus is crap. I guess that covers everything you want people to say. Sorry you have no clue what me and everyone else have been saying about the nexus line. They are not made to suit your taste, so why bother. They never will be so keep your iPhone and stop using android. It is really very simple.

People in states do not unlock their non-nexus android phones? It costs what, a mere $5? Sometimes it is even free. How is nexus "superior" in that regard?

And nice try moving the discussion from "nexus 4 sucks" to "iPhone versus the nexus". What if I was not even using an iPhone? What if I was using an htc one? What then ? Would you ask me to go use an iPhone then? Pathetic.

I used a gs3, then an iPhone 5, then a nexus alongside the ip5 and then stopped using the nexus. The nexus was worse than the s3 in many ways, mostly things I already mentioned, LTe, the 32 GB storage variant, good camera. The only plus is stock android which is not enough to overcome the rest, no matter how much I want it. It is again, a compromise. If I don't use a galaxy or one series, I lose my hardware utility to trade off for no skin. Compromise I tell you.

You failed to answer even one of my questions that I pointed out after your mindless drivels to defend your precious nexus. And in the end you play the fanboy card. Classic.

----------

OK maybe so. I have seen no proof that LTE does not use up more battery than 3g. You guys may be right, bit no one has shown me anything saying this. I know for a fact my iPhone 5 gets worse batter than my iPhone 4 did. Noe this could be because of bigger screen, and processor. But Apple added a bigger battery so I thought that would take care of that. Again I could be wrong.

Clearly the guys at anandtech stating LTe is better than 3G are idiots and a nexus fanboy is the authority.

bmac4
May 14, 2013, 06:01 AM
People in states do not unlock their non-nexus android phones? It costs what, a mere $5? Sometimes it is even free. How is nexus "superior" in that regard?

I used a gs3, then an iPhone 5, then a nexus alongside the ip5 and then stopped using the nexus. The nexus was worse than the s3 in many ways, mostly things I already mentioned, LTe, the 32 GB storage variant, good camera. The only plus is stock android which is not enough to overcome the rest, no matter how much I want it. It is again, a compromise. If I don't use a galaxy or one series, I lose my hardware utility to trade off for no skin. Compromise I tell you.

You failed to answer even one of my questions that I pointed out after your mindless drivels to defend your precious nexus. And in the end you play the fanboy card. Classic.

----------



Clearly the guys at anandtech stating LTe is better than 3G are idiots and a nexus fanboy is the authority.

Yes people in the states unlock phones, but guess what it is a very small percentage. Mostly tech type of people do this. In Europe you only have the choice of unlocked, so everyone has one. I would say close to 90% of people in the states have carrier phones that are never unlocked. And yes you can unlock for $5, but here in the states it is now illegal to do it. So now the nexus 4 is the cheapest and easiest way to get a unlocked phone. If you wanted to get unlocked S4 right now it would be about $700 or $800 depending on where you buy it from. Most people are not going to spend that kind of money for an unlocked phone when they can get it on contract $200.


And nice try moving the discussion from "nexus 4 sucks" to "iPhone versus the nexus". What if I was not even using an iPhone? What if I was using an htc one? What then ? Would you ask me to go use an iPhone then? Pathetic.

I did not make this decision about nexus versus iPhone. I was having a discussion with SpinDoc77 about not comparing the S4 and iPhone 5 in smoothness. I said we could compare everything else, but nothing would be as smooth on android as the nexus 4. I believe you where the one who started talking about wishing Google would stop kissing OEM butt.

I am not sure what question you want me to answer, but for you LTE, an amazing camera, and big storage are more important than software. That is fine, but I feel differently and think the nexus is just fine for my needs. I am pretty sure I never bashed Apple once about how they make the iPhone. You seem to do just the opposite. Sorry yes I will defend my choice in phones if someone wants to make statements like you did. I think everyone likes different things which is why I tell no one which phone is best for them. I also will tell them why I like a phone better, but I choice to stay away from bashing there phone choice. The only thing I said to you was that Apple kisses carrier butt just like you say google kisses OEM butt.

The LTE thing we figured that out. I just ask for proof and he gave it to me. As for me saying 3G was better. I never once said that. I said LTE used more battery. I was wrong case closed.

cynics
May 14, 2013, 06:47 AM
Assembly is not the expensive part of the process. It's the design, engineering and machining of the aluminum shell. It's also the design and engineering of the custom parts that need to be made specifically to fit perfectly within the confines of said shell.

I'll use an analogy with laptops. Here are examples of Apple laptops here (http://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/ULSBVxavYsRYXtpN.huge_.jpeg) and here (http://iheartapple.com/e/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/macbookpro-17inch-inside.jpg) compared to the innards of typical PC laptops (https://www.google.ca/search?q=inside+laptop&safe=off&client=safari&sa=N&rls=en&biw=1280&bih=909&hl=en&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&ei=J5SRUcvqEaiMyQHDpYDgDg&ved=0CDEQsAQ). Notice a difference? I sure do.

For a design and engineering freak like me, there clearly is a difference in the design precision and engineering it takes to manufacture parts to fit so tightly and perfectly like that. There is also a cost difference as you can't just use standard parts to achieve this. They must be custom made and that is not a cheap endeavour. It's a lot cheaper to just put together a bunch of standard parts and slap a case around the final product, instead of doing it the other way around.

That's great with a laptop but the iPhone isn't as impressive on the inside compared to the competition.

Serviceability can be pretty difficult too. I replaced a home button on my buddies iPhone 4. Everything is held in place by glue.

sentinelsx
May 14, 2013, 09:48 AM
Yes people in the states unlock phones, but guess what it is a very small percentage. Mostly tech type of people do this. In Europe you only have the choice of unlocked, so everyone has one. I would say close to 90% of people in the states have carrier phones that are never unlocked. And yes you can unlock for $5, but here in the states it is now illegal to do it. So now the nexus 4 is the cheapest and easiest way to get a unlocked phone. If you wanted to get unlocked S4 right now it would be about $700 or $800 depending on where you buy it from. Most people are not going to spend that kind of money for an unlocked phone when they can get it on contract $200.




I did not make this decision about nexus versus iPhone. I was having a discussion with SpinDoc77 about not comparing the S4 and iPhone 5 in smoothness. I said we could compare everything else, but nothing would be as smooth on android as the nexus 4. I believe you where the one who started talking about wishing Google would stop kissing OEM butt.

I am not sure what question you want me to answer, but for you LTE, an amazing camera, and big storage are more important than software. That is fine, but I feel differently and think the nexus is just fine for my needs. I am pretty sure I never bashed Apple once about how they make the iPhone. You seem to do just the opposite. Sorry yes I will defend my choice in phones if someone wants to make statements like you did. I think everyone likes different things which is why I tell no one which phone is best for them. I also will tell them why I like a phone better, but I choice to stay away from bashing there phone choice. The only thing I said to you was that Apple kisses carrier butt just like you say google kisses OEM butt.

The LTE thing we figured that out. I just ask for proof and he gave it to me. As for me saying 3G was better. I never once said that. I said LTE used more battery. I was wrong case closed.

If it is good for you then more power to you. I didn't say anything about you or people who are content with it in my original post (about google being the lapdop), i talked about google because of my discontent with them.

I am flabbergasted that you found the need to defend that corporation. I didn't attack you, but i guess some people develop an emotional attachment with their company.

bmac4
May 14, 2013, 10:01 AM
If it is good for you then more power to you. I didn't say anything about you or people who are content with it in my original post (about google being the lapdop), i talked about google because of my discontent with them.

I am flabbergasted that you found the need to defend that corporation. I didn't attack you, but i guess some people develop an emotional attachment with their company.

I love how that is the best you could come up with. I am emotional attached to Google. I sorry am I the only o e in this forum that defends their phone choice? I also never once bashed your phone choice. I don't like the iPhone as much, but that does not mean it is a bad phone or company. I think I can defend Google and their choices without being call a fanboy. I also think you don't understand the nexus line, and what googles intent is. I have tried over and over again to explain that to you. If you want to keep attacking me that is fine. I just like all iPhone user defend their phone of choice. Just take a look at these forums. I guess all the points that I made it my last post were good ones cause it does not seem you have an argument for them.

MacLappy
May 14, 2013, 12:12 PM
I don't get this. I am contract free nowadays and have used a GS3, Nexus 4, IPhone 5 so far (not including the old smartphones i had before). I don't see a carrier clause stating i need to use a nexus 4 only to be contract free.

Thanks for high-lighting, I should have been more clear in that comment. Basically, I meant to say that the Nexus 4 is sold at a really good off contract price. Have updated the earlier post to reflect this.

sentinelsx
May 14, 2013, 02:05 PM
I love how that is the best you could come up with. I am emotional attached to Google. I sorry am I the only o e in this forum that defends their phone choice? I also never once bashed your phone choice. I don't like the iPhone as much, but that does not mean it is a bad phone or company. I think I can defend Google and their choices without being call a fanboy. I also think you don't understand the nexus line, and what googles intent is. I have tried over and over again to explain that to you. If you want to keep attacking me that is fine. I just like all iPhone user defend their phone of choice. Just take a look at these forums. I guess all the points that I made it my last post were good ones cause it does not seem you have an argument for them.

The difference here being I am not defending the iPhone, I am defending my choice and wants and needs.

The iPhone is also a compromise for me, it is not like I love it. It is jailbroken is the only reason I put up with it. A non-jailbroken iPhone absolutely sucks for me. It is useless. And jailbroken is okay-ish because of other hardware goodies, still not so great.

But if it makes you feel better, I am thinking about a nexus again because I had a good hard look at htc one and the design and button choice turn me off, and the gs4 screen had something that just didnt look right, even in movie mode. Nothing amazing. The nexus on the side was nice because a) the screen size with those buttons on screen is so much more manageable and b) stock android is just so much nicer for me.

But if there was a 32gb nexus 4 with LTe and better camera? It would be my dream phone come true. My expectations aren't even that much. I am not asking for great build or 1080p screens or removable stuff either.

----------

Thanks for high-lighting, I should have been more clear in that comment. Basically, I meant to say that the Nexus 4 is sold at a really good off contract price. Have updated the earlier post to reflect this.

I will retract my LTe and additional 16 GB storage needs if they add a decent enough camera module in the next one and raise the price by $50-$70 if it is really a big deal.

It will still be much cheaper compared to the rest and I would never care for skinned flagships.

bmac4
May 14, 2013, 03:15 PM
The difference here being I am not defending the iPhone, I am defending my choice and wants and needs.

The iPhone is also a compromise for me, it is not like I love it. It is jailbroken is the only reason I put up with it. A non-jailbroken iPhone absolutely sucks for me. It is useless. And jailbroken is okay-ish because of other hardware goodies, still not so great.

But if it makes you feel better, I am thinking about a nexus again because I had a good hard look at htc one and the design and button choice turn me off, and the gs4 screen had something that just didnt look right, even in movie mode. Nothing amazing. The nexus on the side was nice because a) the screen size with those buttons on screen is so much more manageable and b) stock android is just so much nicer for me.

But if there was a 32gb nexus 4 with LTe and better camera? It would be my dream phone come true. My expectations aren't even that much. I am not asking for great build or 1080p screens or removable stuff either.

----------



I will retract my LTe and additional 16 GB storage needs if they add a decent enough camera module in the next one and raise the price by $50-$70 if it is really a big deal.

It will still be much cheaper compared to the rest and I would never care for skinned flagships.

I understand that those are your needs. I think that is a large group of people that want LTE and 32gb. If only you had said the nexus does not meet my needs because it has no LTE, 32gb or higher of storage, and a better camera then I would have understood. I get people want more from a phone then what the nexus 4 can offer. I for one do not need it, but I understand. It just bothers me when people call out Google saying they are holding back because the OEMs want them to. They own Google they can do whatever they feel like doing. Don't let these OEMs fool you into thinking they are doing Google a favor by making the nexus phone. They have to bid for that contract. Who would have cared about the Optimus G had LG not made the nexus 4? I know it may seem like Google is holding back to keep OEMs happy, but these nexus phones are their plans not the OEMs.

I know I seem a bit passionate about this, bit I just don't like people to jump on companies when they don't understand. If you had made a simpler statement about Apple I would have done the same. I don't show loyalty to any company.

I know people like to think the nexus phones are no longer developer phones any more, but they still are. Now of course developers can buy any one of the other android phones and make apps for it, and test, but the nexus phone has the most up to date software. That software is also in its purest form. The nexus line is all about the software not the hardware. I just hope that it continues in that direction, and Google does not bend and start focusing on hardware too much.

sentinelsx
May 14, 2013, 04:39 PM
I understand that those are your needs. I think that is a large group of people that want LTE and 32gb. If only you had said the nexus does not meet my needs because it has no LTE, 32gb or higher of storage, and a better camera then I would have understood. I get people want more from a phone then what the nexus 4 can offer. I for one do not need it, but I understand. It just bothers me when people call out Google saying they are holding back because the OEMs want them to. They own Google they can do whatever they feel like doing. Don't let these OEMs fool you into thinking they are doing Google a favor by making the nexus phone. They have to bid for that contract. Who would have cared about the Optimus G had LG not made the nexus 4? I know it may seem like Google is holding back to keep OEMs happy, but these nexus phones are their plans not the OEMs.

I know I seem a bit passionate about this, bit I just don't like people to jump on companies when they don't understand. If you had made a simpler statement about Apple I would have done the same. I don't show loyalty to any company.

I know people like to think the nexus phones are no longer developer phones any more, but they still are. Now of course developers can buy any one of the other android phones and make apps for it, and test, but the nexus phone has the most up to date software. That software is also in its purest form. The nexus line is all about the software not the hardware. I just hope that it continues in that direction, and Google does not bend and start focusing on hardware too much.

This is where we are slightly off. I want google to focus on hardware AND software so I am not forced to buy a skinned device to enjoy my consumer needs.

This attitude can also prove costly in the future if companies like Samsung can successfully lock everyone into thinking that galaxies are better than everything including nexus and then pull the rug underneath google by saying goodbye. Right now this is ridiculous but not in the next five years.

Standing at the tech shop in the yonge/Dundas square, which qualifies as THE busiest place in the whole of Canada, I saw lines of customers, from iPhone toting guys to office workers to bankers to teenager girls all included, just to test drive the only two live S4 models on show. On the side was a nexus 4 and htc one. And guess what? Both are empty. Not one person coming over despite me standing and playing with the one.

bmac4
May 14, 2013, 04:47 PM
This is where we are slightly off. I want google to focus on hardware AND software so I am not forced to buy a skinned device to enjoy my consumer needs.

This attitude can also prove costly in the future if companies like Samsung can successfully lock everyone into thinking that galaxies are better than everything including nexus and then pull the rug underneath google by saying goodbye. Right now this is ridiculous but not in the next five years.

Standing at the tech shop in the yonge/Dundas square, which qualifies as THE busiest place in the whole of Canada, I saw lines of customers, from iPhone toting guys to office workers to bankers to teenager girls all included, just to test drive the only two live S4 models on show. On the side was a nexus 4 and htc one. And guess what? Both are empty. Not one person coming over despite me standing and playing with the one.

Well I guess maybe they can do both hardware and software, but I prefer software more than hardware. That is why Google made the nexus line in the beginning.

adnbek
May 14, 2013, 05:08 PM
That's great with a laptop but the iPhone isn't as impressive on the inside compared to the competition.

Serviceability can be pretty difficult too. I replaced a home button on my buddies iPhone 4. Everything is held in place by glue.

There are many similarities actually. Unlike most of the competition, almost every part in the iPhone is a custom part. The CPU, the GPU and most of the components are non-standard and designed and engineered by Apple themselves. Probably the only standard part in that thing would be the cameras, but the rest is all custom silicon, custom battery, custom everything.

Now, not saying it necessarily makes it better. But it is an expensive process. It's a lot cheaper to just buy off any component being mass-produced instead, instead of devoting lots of design and engineering hours doing it all yourself.

The advantage here is dictating what the form factor should be and also in terms of optimizing the hardware to go with the software.

sentinelsx
May 14, 2013, 05:18 PM
Well I guess maybe they can do both hardware and software, but I prefer software more than hardware. That is why Google made the nexus line in the beginning.

Sure. But doing both in house can only give us an even better device. And I sure hope that comes out one day.

Think of it this way: they can keep making nexus as a cheaper stock offering and let everyone bid on that. And on the side get Motorola to make stock android phones with all the consumer goodies and higher price. That would be the ultimate choice triumph.

bmac4
May 14, 2013, 05:27 PM
Sure. But doing both in house can only give us an even better device. And I sure hope that comes out one day.

Think of it this way: they can keep making nexus as a cheaper stock offering and let everyone bid on that. And on the side get Motorola to make stock android phones with all the consumer goodies and higher price. That would be the ultimate choice triumph.

Maybe I guess. I just don't ever see them making their own hardware. Apple can make their hardware cause they have been doing it forever. Google has never made hardware before. I guess it could be done. Just don't know that it will.

sentinelsx
May 14, 2013, 05:42 PM
Maybe I guess. I just don't ever see them making their own hardware. Apple can make their hardware cause they have been doing it forever. Google has never made hardware before. I guess it could be done. Just don't know that it will.

Wrong. Google has made hardware. It is called the chrome book pixel.

Apple also didnt make cellphones pre 2007 and no one thought they could. Never say never.

tjl3
May 14, 2013, 05:49 PM
Sure. But doing both in house can only give us an even better device. And I sure hope that comes out one day.

Think of it this way: they can keep making nexus as a cheaper stock offering and let everyone bid on that. And on the side get Motorola to make stock android phones with all the consumer goodies and higher price. That would be the ultimate choice triumph.

I too want Google to do an in house design. I think Google would shed some interesting light on hardware design. And if they sourced or designed their own components, they wouldn't be held back by rehashing another company's phone (i.e. the Optimus G). I don't think Google is fully to blame for the camera, display, or battery, I'd definitely point the finger at LG.

Maybe I guess. I just don't ever see them making their own hardware. Apple can make their hardware cause they have been doing it forever. Google has never made hardware before. I guess it could be done. Just don't know that it will.

While I agree they aren't likely to ever make their own Nexus and sell it at cost, Google is clearly looking to break into the hardware market (Pixel, Glass, Nexus Q maybe). In the end Google is a business, and the bottom line is $. But to develop and then sell the Nexus at cost would be a head scratching business move. I definitely had high hopes for the X Phone, but who knows.

bmac4
May 14, 2013, 05:52 PM
Wrong. Google has made hardware. It is called the chrome book pixel.

Apple also didnt make cellphones pre 2007 and no one thought they could. Never say never.

Apple did not make a phone before 2007 yes, but everything they had ever mad before they built.

I think it would be really pricy to make a nexus phone. That would then lead to a more expensive nexus.

nephron8
May 14, 2013, 06:11 PM
Wrong. Google has made hardware. It is called the chrome book pixel.

Apple also didnt make cellphones pre 2007 and no one thought they could. Never say never.

Wrong,
Google made nexus q in house.
Chromebook pixel was made by samsung.

bmac4
May 14, 2013, 06:41 PM
Wrong,
Google made nexus q in house.
Chromebook pixel was made by samsung.

That is what I thought.

tjl3
May 14, 2013, 07:04 PM
Wrong,
Google made nexus q in house.
Chromebook pixel was made by samsung.

Pixel was made in house.

sentinelsx
May 14, 2013, 07:42 PM
Wrong,
Google made nexus q in house.
Chromebook pixel was made by samsung.

That's because google doesn't have a chrome OS manufacturing division. However, it is fully dictated by google, is the most high end chrome book, and marketed as google's chrome book.

The nexus in comparison is a cheap device bested by many high end devices.

I understand bmac4 and others like the $300 nexus, what I don't understand is the hostility to a higher priced variant that satisfies others' needs too. It is something iPhone lovers tend to be ridiculed for always, shutting down choice.

tjl3
May 14, 2013, 08:08 PM
That's because google doesn't have a chrome OS manufacturing division. However, it is fully dictated by google, is the most high end chrome book, and marketed as google's chrome book.

The nexus in comparison is a cheap device bested by many high end devices.

I understand bmac4 and others like the $300 nexus, what I don't understand is the hostility to a higher priced variant that satisfies others' needs too. It is something iPhone lovers tend to be ridiculed for always, shutting down choice.

Did I miss something, since when did Samsung claim the Pixel. I'm only seeing the display as possibly a Samsung display...

jeffe
May 14, 2013, 11:50 PM
I have never switched carriers. Been with AT&T for over 15 years. Well started out Bellsouth.

That's amazing! and you still don't want to sign a 2 year contract to save money on hardware or maybe this will be the year that you'll switch?

bmac4
May 15, 2013, 05:55 AM
That's amazing! and you still don't want to sign a 2 year contract to save money on hardware or maybe this will be the year that you'll switch?

Why switch? Sure I don't love AT&T, but no carrier is any better. I do use my upgrades when I get an iPhone. I used one on the iPhone 5. I like having the unlocked nexus 4 because I can tether and travel, and neither is under AT&T control. Now if I tether too much AT&T will stop me, but if I keep it minimal then I am fine.

----------

That's because google doesn't have a chrome OS manufacturing division. However, it is fully dictated by google, is the most high end chrome book, and marketed as google's chrome book.

The nexus in comparison is a cheap device bested by many high end devices.

I understand bmac4 and others like the $300 nexus, what I don't understand is the hostility to a higher priced variant that satisfies others' needs too. It is something iPhone lovers tend to be ridiculed for always, shutting down choice.

Ok let me ask you this. Why would google make the nexus in house? What advantages will it give them? Now this nexus was the first "cheap" we have gotten, but is that not the direction the nexus line is going? If you start to add a lot of high end premium hardware the cost is going to skyrocket. Don't kid yourself though Apple has a huge markup, so the iPhone is made with great materials it still has a large markup. If the nexus was created like you want it. We are talking about $500 or $550 compared to $300 to $350. Does that not now cause customers to say hey no way I am paying that? Like I said here in the States people buy in contract to save money. The nexus 4 became popular here because it was only $100 more than iPhone on contract. People that were still under contract could buy the nexus 4. I feel like you gain less customers than what would be lost.

cynics
May 15, 2013, 06:44 AM
There are many similarities actually. Unlike most of the competition, almost every part in the iPhone is a custom part. The CPU, the GPU and most of the components are non-standard and designed and engineered by Apple themselves. Probably the only standard part in that thing would be the cameras, but the rest is all custom silicon, custom battery, custom everything.

Now, not saying it necessarily makes it better. But it is an expensive process. It's a lot cheaper to just buy off any component being mass-produced instead, instead of devoting lots of design and engineering hours doing it all yourself.

The advantage here is dictating what the form factor should be and also in terms of optimizing the hardware to go with the software.

While I agree some parts are proprietary but that doesn't make them more expensive.

How many devices use and will use Apples A6 SoC? While only Apple it will likely be more then other manufactures use other SoC just based on the volume Apple sells of a single device vs the competition making it much more common.

GPU/RAM aren't Apples and many manufactures will use them. They both use PowerVR Series 5. And the iPhone 5 uses 1gb of DDR2 RAM while the S4 uses 2gb DDR3 RAM.

Parts in both phones are equally generic aside from the processor really. Skyworks, Qualcomm, Hynix, etc etc. Then you have the case setup and speaker layout which is obviously device dependent.

I still think Apple pays about the same give or take then the competition does for a flagship phone. It would be silly for a company like Apple to be bullied into paying more

Simplicated
May 15, 2013, 08:20 AM
I do think Apple needs to seriously consider making the screen larger, but one of the biggest impediments they have is where the Back button is placed.

As for the GS4's screen, I cannot stand it. It's VERY bluish, and thanks to the AMOLED "technology", it will start leaving marks after prolonged use.

bmac4
May 15, 2013, 12:19 PM
That's because google doesn't have a chrome OS manufacturing division. However, it is fully dictated by google, is the most high end chrome book, and marketed as google's chrome book.

The nexus in comparison is a cheap device bested by many high end devices.

I understand bmac4 and others like the $300 nexus, what I don't understand is the hostility to a higher priced variant that satisfies others' needs too. It is something iPhone lovers tend to be ridiculed for always, shutting down choice.

So does the stock android S4 suit your needs for an android phone? Looks pretty sick if you ask me.

adnbek
May 15, 2013, 04:42 PM
While I agree some parts are proprietary but that doesn't make them more expensive.

How many devices use and will use Apples A6 SoC? While only Apple it will likely be more then other manufactures use other SoC just based on the volume Apple sells of a single device vs the competition making it much more common.

GPU/RAM aren't Apples and many manufactures will use them. They both use PowerVR Series 5. And the iPhone 5 uses 1gb of DDR2 RAM while the S4 uses 2gb DDR3 RAM.

Parts in both phones are equally generic aside from the processor really. Skyworks, Qualcomm, Hynix, etc etc. Then you have the case setup and speaker layout which is obviously device dependent.

I still think Apple pays about the same give or take then the competition does for a flagship phone. It would be silly for a company like Apple to be bullied into paying more

Guess you're right about that.

One thing's for sure though. The machining process of the unibody would still be a more expensive process than the injection moulding done on the more "plasticky" variety of phones, that's for sure.

Also, I always thought the PowerVR chip was Apple exclusive though. I wonder why so few devices use it when it's so much more powerful than the Adrenos the other flagship phones often use.

soulreaver99
May 17, 2013, 01:05 PM
Here's a visual!

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8414/8748357746_33562ee5c3_c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/louietran/8748357746/)
Samsung Galaxy S4 vs iPhone 5 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/louietran/8748357746/)

LIVEFRMNYC
May 17, 2013, 02:00 PM
Awwww ... look at the cute little baby phone. :p

sentinelsx
May 17, 2013, 02:13 PM
Here's a visual!

Image (http://www.flickr.com/photos/louietran/8748357746/)
Samsung Galaxy S4 vs iPhone 5 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/louietran/8748357746/)

Nice. Custom rom or just nova on top of touchwiz?

soulreaver99
May 17, 2013, 03:02 PM
Nice. Custom rom or just nova on top of touchwiz?

Nova with Touch Wiz disabled. I have never liked Touch Wiz :p

sentinelsx
May 17, 2013, 03:11 PM
Nova with Touch Wiz disabled. I have never liked Touch Wiz :p

Eh isn't there some of the touchwiz still present? like in sms app (i so hate the touchwiz SMS app's default yellow and blue) and that green notification pull down shade?