PDA

View Full Version : Nokia Lumia 928




JaySoul
May 10, 2013, 09:36 AM
Just been officially announced, interesting.

http://gizmodo.com/nokia-lumia-928-heres-the-new-best-windows-phone-499826054?utm_campaign=socialflow_gizmodo_twitter&utm_source=gizmodo_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow

Seems to have the same guts, but in a much thinner body.

I just still think it's a shame they don't make priority Android phones.



GoCubsGo
May 10, 2013, 09:39 AM
Hmmm

The article says, "Before jumping on board with the 928, though, we'd caution that it comes over six months after the 920, and shares the same guts."

I read that as the 928 has the same insides as the 920 but the body is thinner. No?

AutoUnion39
May 11, 2013, 08:03 AM
I wish Nokia would get off their high horse and offer Android on their devices. :(

watchthisspace
May 11, 2013, 08:12 AM
Hmmm

The article says, "Before jumping on board with the 928, though, we'd caution that it comes over six months after the 920, and shares the same guts."

I read that as the 928 has the same insides as the 920 but the body is thinner. No?

It appears to be a little thinner. But it has curved edges like the HTC 8x to give a thinner feel.

http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/120958-nokia-lumia-928-vs-920-what-s-different

thehustleman
May 11, 2013, 08:17 AM
I wish Nokia would get off their high horse and offer Android on their devices. :(

They can't.

Under contract to Microsoft to only do windows phones until 2016

Primejimbo
May 11, 2013, 09:43 AM
I really like the 920, and if I didn't have all Apple stuff I would go to it in a heart beat. I actually came so close trading in my iPhone 5 for one.

Assault
May 11, 2013, 11:49 AM
So Nokia and Blackberry are still making phones using early 2012 hardware. Awesome.

thejadedmonkey
May 11, 2013, 12:12 PM
So Nokia and Blackberry are still making phones using early 2012 hardware. Awesome.

Windows Phone is a much better OS than Android. I'm using a WP device from 2010 and it works better than a lot of the low end android phones that are out there today. The 928 is late 2012 hardware, but it's good enough for WP OS, and also the battery life is outrageous, so there's some internal changes too.

thehustleman
May 11, 2013, 12:34 PM
Windows Phone is a much better OS than Android.

Let's not get ahead of ourselves!

Michael Goff
May 11, 2013, 12:35 PM
I wish Nokia would get off their high horse and offer Android on their devices. :(

Yeah, then they could sink faster when they get sued by Apple and Microsoft for patents.

BRILLIANT!

Assault
May 11, 2013, 02:27 PM
Windows Phone is a much better OS than Android. I'm using a WP device from 2010 and it works better than a lot of the low end android phones that are out there today. The 928 is late 2012 hardware, but it's good enough for WP OS, and also the battery life is outrageous, so there's some internal changes too.

I wouldn't say Metro aka WP OS is better, and I don't dislike it (I would get a Nokia WP before an iPhone), but the sheer lack of 3rd party support for the OS is what kills the entire platform, regardless of the hardware manufacturer. If WP OS was more customizable, or could be "rooted" and "ROM'ed"and there were active developers, WP could be a huge hit. Keeping it locked down has not helped Microsoft, Samsung or Nokia sell their mobile devices.

And Nokia using old, leftover hardware, isn't going to impress anyone. If anything people will question why they only have a dual core processor when everyone else is using quad or Octo core, or why it only has an 8 megapixel camera when everyone else has 12 or 13 megapixel? What does Nokia offer above or better than a Flagship Android phone. Answer: nothing.

Michael Goff
May 11, 2013, 03:04 PM
I wouldn't say Metro aka WP OS is better, and I don't dislike it (I would get a Nokia WP before an iPhone), but the sheer lack of 3rd party support for the OS is what kills the entire platform, regardless of the hardware manufacturer. If WP OS was more customizable, or could be "rooted" and "ROM'ed"and there were active developers, WP could be a huge hit. Keeping it locked down has not helped Microsoft, Samsung or Nokia sell their mobile devices.

And Nokia using old, leftover hardware, isn't going to impress anyone. If anything people will question why they only have a dual core processor when everyone else is using quad or Octo core, or why it only has an 8 megapixel camera when everyone else has 12 or 13 megapixel? What does Nokia offer above or better than a Flagship Android phone. Answer: nothing.

Really?

You're judging the quality of a phone camera by megapixel? Are you really that ignorant?

tbayrgs
May 11, 2013, 03:22 PM
And Nokia using old, leftover hardware, isn't going to impress anyone. If anything people will question why they only have a dual core processor when everyone else is using quad or Octo core, or why it only has an 8 megapixel camera when everyone else has 12 or 13 megapixel? What does Nokia offer above or better than a Flagship Android phone. Answer: nothing.

If it gets the job done, who cares how many cores it has? The flagship Android devices are the ones with bleeding edge tech yet they still seems to have the most issues with lag--far more reported than either the iPhone or top end Windows phones. The new S4 has arguably the best CPUs in a mobile device right now but i'm seeing threads/comment across multiple forums discussing issues with lag. And Michael Goff is right--if you believe it's only about the megapixels you clearly don't know what you're talking about.

I wouldn't say Metro aka WP OS is better, and I don't dislike it (I would get a Nokia WP before an iPhone), but the sheer lack of 3rd party support for the OS is what kills the entire platform, regardless of the hardware manufacturer. If WP OS was more customizable, or could be "rooted" and "ROM'ed"and there were active developers, WP could be a huge hit. Keeping it locked down has not helped Microsoft, Samsung or Nokia sell their mobile devices.

I'll agree with you on this point though and it's generally the consensus reason I see people choosing something other than WP (or Blackberry for that matter). It doesn't need to be able to be rooted or have custom ROMs--just look at the iPhone but it'll never get off the ground without support from developers. Also wouldn't hurt for Google to support their own apps on the platform.

Assault
May 11, 2013, 03:44 PM
Really?

You're judging the quality of a phone camera by megapixel? Are you really that ignorant?

Not what I was saying. I'm referring to the average Joe asking a salesperson why the Nokia has less this or that compared to phone xyz. People will look at the displays and see Nokia only has 8 megapixel camera, while HTC or Samsung or apple have 13 megapixel cameras. And more pixels = more better in most peoples minds (and it is true to an extent).

I could give a crap about the camera. I don't use it very often. All I need is a camera that takes good shots and is adjustable. However I do want the low power multicore SoC and a min of 2gb ram, plus removable battery and expandable storage. If it doesn't have this, I don't buy.

Switchback666
May 11, 2013, 03:53 PM
The only problem with Windows phone OS is that it might confusing for the average joe, by that i mean the menu flow is waaay different than previous mobile os.

I honestly think its a damm good OS, fluid and smooth and everything follows the ui design, hardware wise it just dont demand the same resources, battery life is fantastic too and the "power saving" on nokia really did its saving.

Hope they continue and dont try to become another android manufacture.

Michael Goff
May 11, 2013, 03:57 PM
Not what I was saying. I'm referring to the average Joe asking a salesperson why the Nokia has less this or that compared to phone xyz. People will look at the displays and see Nokia only has 8 megapixel camera, while HTC or Samsung or apple have 13 megapixel cameras. And more pixels = more better in most peoples minds (and it is true to an extent).

I could give a crap about the camera. I don't use it very often. All I need is a camera that takes good shots and is adjustable. However I do want the low power multicore SoC and a min of 2gb ram, plus removable battery and expandable storage. If it doesn't have this, I don't buy.

Then what you're suggesting isn't a problem with the hardware, but a problem with marketing. If there is somebody that can market the strengths of a lower megapixel camera (like, maybe, saying their phone has some of the best capabilities for low light shots), then people will buy it.

Hellhammer
May 11, 2013, 04:27 PM
Not what I was saying. I'm referring to the average Joe asking a salesperson why the Nokia has less this or that compared to phone xyz. People will look at the displays and see Nokia only has 8 megapixel camera, while HTC or Samsung or apple have 13 megapixel cameras. And more pixels = more better in most peoples minds (and it is true to an extent).

Samsung is the only one with a 13 megapixel camera. iPhone 5 has a 8MP camera and HTC's One actually has 4MP (but 2 micron pixels). Maybe you should check your facts before claiming that everyone has a 12-13MP camera, while in the reality only Samsung does and Nokia's camera is one of the best even when measured in MPs.

If the sales rep knows (and deserves) his job, then he can also explain that the megapixels don't tell the whole truth. Obviously, taking test photos in the store is what the customer should do because that's the only way he can really compare the cameras in real world.

thejadedmonkey
May 11, 2013, 05:05 PM
If anything people will question why they only have a dual core processor when everyone else is using quad or Octo core

By that logic, Apple shouldn't be selling any iPhones because they only have a dual core CPU.

AppliedMicro
May 11, 2013, 05:10 PM
If WP OS was more customizable, or could be "rooted" and "ROM'ed"and there were active developers, WP could be a huge hit.
iOS isn't customizable, and (its current version) cannot be rooted.
So what is it, if not a huge hit?

Rootability and customization is primarily an entertainment for geeks frequenting internet tech forums - yet hugely overrated for the masses. The vast majority of people can or choose to live without great customising their devices. If you don't consider "getting Apps" as customization, that is (though Apps somehow are way of customising a phone).

That being said, there's still some lack in app availability on WP8, yes. But the OS is fine.
Microsoft chose a similar route as Apple with Mac OS X: offer less customization while going for a more consistent and elegant interface and operation.

And Nokia using old, leftover hardware, isn't going to impress anyone. If anything people will question why they only have a dual core processor when everyone else is using quad or Octo core
So which "everyones" exactly use octo-core processors?
Or quad-cores, for that matter?

Apple doesn't. Their A6 used in the iPhone 5 (their current flagship phone) is stinkin' vintage dual-core (!) CPU. WP8 runs very well on high-end Nokias, as does iOS on iPhone 5.

Again, that being said, yes, both offerings won't impress people drooling over sheer numbers - but hey, let these people be victims of marketing.

Assault
May 11, 2013, 05:44 PM
Samsung is the only one with a 13 megapixel camera. iPhone 5 has a 8MP camera and HTC's One actually has 4MP (but 2 micron pixels). Maybe you should check your facts before claiming that everyone has a 12-13MP camera, while in the reality only Samsung does and Nokia's camera is one of the best even when measured in MPs.

If the sales rep knows (and deserves) his job, then he can also explain that the megapixels don't tell the whole truth. Obviously, taking test photos in the store is what the customer should do because that's the only way he can really compare the cameras in real world.

iOS isn't customizable, and (its current version) cannot be rooted.
So what is it, if not a huge hit?

Rootability and customization is primarily an entertainment for geeks frequenting internet tech forums - yet hugely overrated for the masses. The vast majority of people can or choose to live without great customising their devices. If you don't consider "getting Apps" as customization, that is (though Apps somehow are way of customising a phone).

That being said, there's still some lack in app availability on WP8, yes. But the OS is fine.
Microsoft chose a similar route as Apple with Mac OS X: offer less customization while going for a more consistent and elegant interface and operation.

So which "everyones" exactly use octo-core processors?
Or quad-cores, for that matter?

Apple doesn't. Their A6 used in the iPhone 5 (their current flagship phone) is stinkin' vintage dual-core (!) CPU. WP8 runs very well on high-end Nokias, as does iOS on iPhone 5.

Again, that being said, yes, both offerings won't impress people drooling over sheer numbers - but hey, let these people be victims of marketing.

Holy jesus... I was just using examples people, not literal facts. Unless you also want to believe there is a phone out there called "xyz" too? You people need to lighten up.

How's this: if phone A has 8mp camera/dual core cpu, while phone B and C have 13mp camera's/4 or 8 cores, then average Joe will immediately think phone A is lacking. Generic enough for you guys to comprehend?

watchthisspace
May 11, 2013, 08:10 PM
Holy jesus... I was just using examples people, not literal facts. Unless you also want to believe there is a phone out there called "xyz" too? You people need to lighten up.

How's this: if phone A has 8mp camera/dual core cpu, while phone B and C have 13mp camera's/4 or 8 cores, then average Joe will immediately think phone A is lacking. Generic enough for you guys to comprehend?

This part I have to agree. Average Joe thinks higher is better.

I'm going to assume though Assault that you have used or seen a Windows Phone 8 device to see that on dated hardware, the OS performs incredibly well. And that the Lumia's 8.7mp camera is one of the best in market due to OIS.

In the end, the Lumia 928 is what the 920 should of been and with the arrival of the s4, HTC One and soon to be unvield iPhone 5s/, it's late to the party.

sentinelsx
May 11, 2013, 08:32 PM
I wouldn't say Metro aka WP OS is better, and I don't dislike it (I would get a Nokia WP before an iPhone), but the sheer lack of 3rd party support for the OS is what kills the entire platform, regardless of the hardware manufacturer. If WP OS was more customizable, or could be "rooted" and "ROM'ed"and there were active developers, WP could be a huge hit. Keeping it locked down has not helped Microsoft, Samsung or Nokia sell their mobile devices.

And Nokia using old, leftover hardware, isn't going to impress anyone. If anything people will question why they only have a dual core processor when everyone else is using quad or Octo core, or why it only has an 8 megapixel camera when everyone else has 12 or 13 megapixel? What does Nokia offer above or better than a Flagship Android phone. Answer: nothing.

Looking at tons of people using galaxies around in toronto, no I don't think "ROMs" will make wp a hit. As much as geeks love to daydream, the heavy majority of users doesn't even bother to change the basic layout given to them by Samsung, let alone modding.

So no.

3bs
May 11, 2013, 08:47 PM
Looking at tons of people using galaxies around in toronto, no I don't think "ROMs" will make wp a hit. As much as geeks love to daydream, the heavy majority of users doesn't even bother to change the basic layout given to them by Samsung, let alone modding.

So no.

I don't like it but I completely agree.

Prototypical
May 12, 2013, 08:27 AM
I wish Nokia would get off their high horse and offer Android on their devices. :(

I wish Android fans would get off their high horse and realize that not everyone wants/likes Android on their devices.

Hellhammer
May 12, 2013, 09:28 AM
I wish Android fans would get off their high horse and realize that not everyone wants/likes Android on their devices.

Offering Android wouldn't mean that Nokia would abandon Windows Phone. E.g. Samsung and HTC both have WP8 and Android phones. The fact is that not everyone likes WP8 (or Android or iOS...) but they might prefer Nokia when it comes to hardware. The WP ecosystem cannot compete with Android or iOS at the moment because developers are not as interested in it compared to others (no official Instagram app for instance). Hopefully that will change over time but right now WP8 isn't as mature as Android or iOS.

Michael Goff
May 12, 2013, 11:11 AM
Offering Android wouldn't mean that Nokia would abandon Windows Phone. E.g. Samsung and HTC both have WP8 and Android phones. The fact is that not everyone likes WP8 (or Android or iOS...) but they might prefer Nokia when it comes to hardware. The WP ecosystem cannot compete with Android or iOS at the moment because developers are not as interested in it compared to others (no official Instagram app for instance). Hopefully that will change over time but right now WP8 isn't as mature as Android or iOS.

No, but it would mean they would be opening themselves up to lawsuits that they can't afford.

sentinelsx
May 12, 2013, 11:26 AM
Offering Android wouldn't mean that Nokia would abandon Windows Phone. E.g. Samsung and HTC both have WP8 and Android phones. The fact is that not everyone likes WP8 (or Android or iOS...) but they might prefer Nokia when it comes to hardware. The WP ecosystem cannot compete with Android or iOS at the moment because developers are not as interested in it compared to others (no official Instagram app for instance). Hopefully that will change over time but right now WP8 isn't as mature as Android or iOS.

Question is: why do you want Nokia?

Do you want solid build quality? HTC got you covered.

Screen? LG/HTC/Samsung/Sony got you covered.

Camera? Again, the above has it covered. Unless you really want pure view.

Audio? Again, the above got it covered. HTC One and GS4 are even said to incorporate much better micro phones for audio recording along with video.

What else?

All you are going to get is a skinned device with good build, camera etc etc which again, HTC covers quite nicely.

The only hope is nexus but then again, google will hold back and not let Nokia build a nexus that trashes the galaxy or the One or the optimus. So what help is that? Besides google has already purchased Motorola if they ever want to make hardware (and i sure hope they do!) so again, where does Nokia fit in?

It is wish full thinking. IMO, it is not really "choice" if everyone out there is making skinned android devices. Already have tons of that. Would rather have nokia try real hard with MS to make WP better and more adopted and give us another good option. THAT is more choice.

Hellhammer
May 12, 2013, 12:54 PM
No, but it would mean they would be opening themselves up to lawsuits that they can't afford.

We don't know the details of the contract between MS and Nokia, so you're just speculating. It's the same thing as when everyone was thought WP will be exclusive to Nokia, yet HTC and Samsung came up with their own devices.

Question is: why do you want Nokia?

I never said I want Nokia. What you described can be applied to any manufacturer, not just Nokia. Why is LG making Android phones when they are no different from Samsung's? Somehow they still manages to sell 10 million smartphones in Q1'13. The same can be said about Sony: Why are they still in the business while HTC and Samsung "pretty much got everyone covered"? I guess they don't.

You are right that the competition in the Android market is fairly tough, but for some reason all the major manufacturers are still selling more smartphones than Nokia. Sure, Nokia's sales have been getting better but the pace is way too slow. They are making loss quarter by quarter and that can't continue forever.

I would argue that there's no room for three major ecosystems in the market. If we go back in time and look at the PC industry, Windows and Apple's OS have always been the major OSs. Why? Because they were the first ones to be widely adopted. In the case of smartphones, these OSs are iOS and Android. Most people just want their phones to work, they don't want to spend hours learning how to use the thing and tinker with all the nice little animations. The problem is, for most people iOS and Android are "good enough" so they don't see the need to switch. Manufacturers have also realized this as Nokia is the only one who is putting some serious effort on WP phones, though MS is certainly shooting at their own leg with all the stupid limitations - with Android there's more freedom and that allows OEMs to differentiate their products (and makes the market more appealing).

I'm just very, very skeptical about the future of WP. To me it seems like MS thinks they can just ride on the Windows name and sooner than later people will switch to it since that's what their computers run. The WP platform needs to be better than iOS or Android to really gain popularity, but that's not going to be an easy task as iOS and Android are already pretty darn good. Or maybe I'm just tired of all the Nokia kool-aid everyone drinks here in Finland...

sentinelsx
May 12, 2013, 01:11 PM
We don't know the details of the contract between MS and Nokia, so you're just speculating. It's the same thing as when everyone was thought WP will be exclusive to Nokia, yet HTC and Samsung came up with their own devices.



I never said I want Nokia. What you described can be applied to any manufacturer, not just Nokia. Why is LG making Android phones when they are no different from Samsung's? Somehow they still manages to sell 10 million smartphones in Q1'13. The same can be said about Sony: Why are they still in the business while HTC and Samsung "pretty much got everyone covered"? I guess they don't.

You are right that the competition in the Android market is fairly tough, but for some reason all the major manufacturers are still selling more smartphones than Nokia. Sure, Nokia's sales have been getting better but the pace is way too slow. They are making loss quarter by quarter and that can't continue forever.

I would argue that there's no room for three major ecosystems in the market. If we go back in time and look at the PC industry, Windows and Apple's OS have always been the major OSs. Why? Because they were the first ones to be widely adopted. In the case of smartphones, these OSs are iOS and Android. Most people just want their phones to work, they don't want to spend hours learning how to use the thing and tinker with all the nice little animations. The problem is, for most people iOS and Android are "good enough" so they don't see the need to switch. Manufacturers have also realized this as Nokia is the only one who is putting some serious effort on WP phones, though MS is certainly shooting at their own leg with all the stupid limitations - with Android there's more freedom and that allows OEMs to differentiate their products (and makes the market more appealing).

I'm just very, very skeptical about the future of WP. To me it seems like MS thinks they can just ride on the Windows name and sooner than later people will switch to it since that's what their computers run. The WP platform needs to be better than iOS or Android to really gain popularity, but that's not going to be an easy task as iOS and Android are already pretty darn good. Or maybe I'm just tired of all the Nokia kool-aid everyone drinks here in Finland...

I am sorry but I don't buy the two OS thing just like the traditional two party thing. Having ios and android only means if you don't like either, you are SOL.

People buy galaxy, not android. They buy iPhone, not ios.

Sure lg is selling a lot of phones by where? Korea? That's like saying zte is selling a lot of phones in china so they should stick to android.

You make an OS that covers the basics right, either give huge incentives or pay the devs of the big 100 apps on AppStore to port their app fully to your OS, and market your OS like apple or Samsung, you will get sales. Nokia isn't doing that at all. Zero ads here where I live. I see a Samsung ad 10 times a day.

And htc and lg and Sony could only dream of what Samsung is making right now. They are "okay" but still not away from danger. Not at all. Sony is losing money rapidly, and htc is losing sales quarter over quarter as well.

Michael Goff
May 12, 2013, 01:28 PM
We don't know the details of the contract between MS and Nokia, so you're just speculating. It's the same thing as when everyone was thought WP will be exclusive to Nokia, yet HTC and Samsung came up with their own devices.

What would their agreement with MS have to do with lawsuits against Android? Even if you take Microsoft off the list of people who would sue Nokia for using Android, Apple still would. It's what they do, especially if the product becomes successful.

Hellhammer
May 12, 2013, 01:41 PM
I am sorry but I don't buy the two OS thing just like the traditional two party thing. Having ios and android only means if you don't like either, you are SOL.

People buy galaxy, not android. They buy iPhone, not ios.

Your statements contradict. If people don't buy the phone based on the OS, then how come one will be SOL if he likes neither of the OSs? That makes absolutely no sense.

Sure lg is selling a lot of phones by where? Korea? That's like saying zte is selling a lot of phones in china so they should stick to android.

The only thing that matters is the quantity, not where the phones were sold. Nokia sold 5.6 million Lumia's in Q1'13, while LG sold 10.3 million smartphones. 10.6m is more than 5.6m, even if every single LG phone was sold in Korea.

You make an OS that covers the basics right, either give huge incentives or pay the devs of the big 100 apps on AppStore to port their app fully to your OS, and market your OS like apple or Samsung, you will get sales. Nokia isn't doing that at all. Zero ads here where I live. I see a Samsung ad 10 times a day.

Apple and Google didn't have to pay for devs to code apps, they moved to the platform naturally. That's why being the first matters.

And htc and lg and Sony could only dream of what Samsung is making right now. They are "okay" but still not away from danger. Not at all. Sony is losing money rapidly, and htc is losing sales quarter over quarter as well.

Even HTC and Sony are both making profit, while Nokia is constantly losing money.

What would their agreement with MS have to do with lawsuits against Android? Even if you take Microsoft off the list of people who would sue Nokia for using Android, Apple still would. It's what they do, especially if the product becomes successful.

What Apple has to do with Android and Nokia? Apple doesn't own Android or have contracts with Nokia. If Nokia was scared of Apple's lawsuits, then they would have exited the market years ago. It's not like Apple hasn't sued Nokia over some meaningless UI patent before.

sentinelsx
May 12, 2013, 01:56 PM
Your statements contradict. If people don't buy the phone based on the OS, then how come one will be SOL if he likes neither of the OSs? That makes absolutely no sense.



The only thing that matters is the quantity, not where the phones were sold. Nokia sold 5.6 million Lumia's in Q1'13, while LG sold 10.3 million smartphones. 10.6m is more than 5.6m, even if every single LG phone was sold in Korea.



Apple and Google didn't have to pay for devs to code apps, they moved to the platform naturally. That's why being the first matters.



Even HTC and Sony are both making profit, while Nokia is constantly losing money.



What Apple has to do with Android and Nokia? Apple doesn't own Android or have contracts with Nokia. If Nokia was scared of Apple's lawsuits, then they would have exited the market years ago. It's not like Apple hasn't sued Nokia over some meaningless UI patent before.

Because the other guy who doesn't buy them based on marketing alone wants something else? If a wp8 phone is marketed like galaxy, I am sure it would sell and people who want a third OS can buy it with confidence knowing that the mass consumer is supporting it. Do you get it now? Phones which sell to mass consumers are great for the informed buyer who chooses them because of no fear of "less support, apps, ecosystem etc". Basically what I am saying is a successful third OS phone can be good for people who buy that third OS phone not because of marketing, but the OS.

I wonder if you got it.

Hellhammer
May 12, 2013, 02:10 PM
Basically what I am saying is a successful third OS phone can be good for people who buy that third OS phone not because of marketing, but the OS.

But that's not what the masses will buy, which is what keeps the whole ecosystem alive. There is a reason why companies spend billions on marketing each year: it works. If you think your product will sell itself, then you'll be out of the business very soon. Geeks may find and use it but the extreme minority isn't enough to keep something like Nokia going for years.

sentinelsx
May 12, 2013, 06:36 PM
But that's not what the masses will buy, which is what keeps the whole ecosystem alive. There is a reason why companies spend billions on marketing each year: it works. If you think your product will sell itself, then you'll be out of the business very soon. Geeks may find and use it but the extreme minority isn't enough to keep something like Nokia going for years.

Lol I guess I suck at explanations.

That is not what I am saying.

For example, suppose that, Nokia does huge marketing of the Lumia. People buy it because "cool this and cool that etc". All good now. All devs hop on board and make apps and the platform is booming and providing a solid choice.

Okay, the base is set.

Now suppose, I am disgruntled by both ios and android and am looking for a third OS. I see how nice the Lumia is doing and it just happens to be running the OS that I would LOVE to use. Now all of a sudden life is great because a) I like that third OS and b) that OS is running on a phone that is selling a lot. (ironically, in reality I don't like wp much only because of metro lol, but this is an example).

So the majority is buying a "Lumia" and doesn't care about the OS but I do and I benefit from the OS being a solid mass hit. I am buying wp in that example unlike majority. Their blind purchase helps me being happy with my informed decision about that OS.

Re-iterated slightly, IF a 3rd OS does good mass consumer wise, the minority of people which likes that OS, benefits for staying with it.

I guess now it should be clear :)