PDA

View Full Version : Android Users: Why don't you root?




Explicitic
May 10, 2013, 10:22 PM
One question I have always been curious about is why Android users, who are aware that it exists, don't root their devices? The benefits, far outweighing any downsides there may be, are huge and it greatly enhances the Android experience.

For me, I won't buy a device if the bootloader is completely locked down, no root exploit exists, or if there isn't a ROM available to my liking. Sounds like my kind of device is a Nexus, eh? Not really. I've never been into the Nexus phones much simply because they are not made by Google. At this point, I expect Google to start designing and creating their own devices, like with the Chromebook Pixel. I don't understand why they haven't taken this step forward yet.

So tell me, why don't you root or flash ROMs? Are you scared something may happen?



sentinelsx
May 10, 2013, 10:26 PM
Because they are capable to fill my needs 100% without rooting?

tbayrgs
May 10, 2013, 10:37 PM
I've rooted and flashed all of my previous Android devices (Galaxy Nexus, Nexus 7, Nexus 4, Note II) for various reason (exploring new options/functionalities with the Nexus devices, removing the bloat and gaining functionality with the Note II).

I'm now using a HTC One and honestly, don't have the urge/need, as of yet. Ideally I'd like to add some functionality to the capacitive buttons but with Nova installed, I'm pretty happy with the device as is. I also don't think developers have had enough time to build fully functional and stable custom ROMs quite yet.

Vegastouch
May 10, 2013, 10:44 PM
I used to with my Galaxy Vibrant. Used to flash ROMs, different modems, startup anims and shutdown anims, etc,..... and use a few programs that required root but since ive had my GS3 since last July, i havent felt the need to root it. It runs fine, is fast and does everything i need it to.

The ONLY reason ive thought of rooting it is to use Titanium backup to delete a few things but it hasnt a big enough deal to me to have to do it.

As long as the phone is working fine and working fast, there is no reason to root it and install other ROM's just because i can.

LIVEFRMNYC
May 10, 2013, 11:06 PM
I might not root my S4. It's just been so fast and smooth for me. The only reason I can think of rooting at the moment is to kill ads on some apps. At the moment, the apps I have with ads are not intrusive so I don't mind. Also, if internal storage ever becomes a problem I'll root to do the Folder Mount (http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2267461), but I doubt it'll get to that point.

onthecouchagain
May 10, 2013, 11:28 PM
I'm scared.

DeathChill
May 10, 2013, 11:40 PM
I'm scared.

Don't worry, I'll hold you.

Serge N Gin
May 11, 2013, 12:15 AM
I've always been curious but it does seem like entering the twilight zone to me.

Having said that, I just recently replaced the microSD card with one that has twice the capacity and then 'pulled' all the data from the original SD, using Terminal & sdk-tools, then put it onto the new one & much to my delight everything worked like a dream!

So maybe there could be a time when I 'have-a-go' at rooting ...

Assault
May 11, 2013, 12:45 AM
Rooting is one thing, ROM'ing is something entirely different.

Everyone that likes their phones the way they are could just do a simply root, so you can use backup programs like Titanium, download certain apps that require root and so on. So your phone stays factory, but you now have access to the root files.

ROM'ing requires root, but alters the OS to get rid of a 3rd party u/I like Touch wiz, allows for installation of vanilla android, custom kernels for undervolting and overclockiing, etc..

I have had my S3 since release date and almost immediately flashed a new ROM onto it. I'm not a fan of Touchwiz or Sense, just customizable Android. I also like not dealing with Samsung or carriers for updates. I've been on 4.2.2 for a while and don't ever want to deal with anything less. I like having Dash clock lock screen access and widget, I enjoy Google Now and Photosphere.

Saturn1217
May 11, 2013, 12:45 AM
I have rooted my previous android phone and I did root my nexus 7 but for my galaxy nexus it is staying unrooted and stock. Why? There is nothing I want to change that root would achieve. Dealing with custom recoveries sucks and it is my phone not a toy. I need it to be rock solid and reliable as my main communication device before anything else. My nexus 7 on the other hand is a non-essential toy so I have no issues messing around with it. Root also makes your device insecure and can prevent you from using certain apps. I personally hate when people say "just root your phone" as if it is no big deal...

Explicitic
May 11, 2013, 01:30 AM
I have rooted my previous android phone and I did root my nexus 7 but for my galaxy nexus it is staying unrooted and stock. Why? There is nothing I want to change that root would achieve. Dealing with custom recoveries sucks and it is my phone not a toy. I need it to be rock solid and reliable as my main communication device before anything else. My nexus 7 on the other hand is a non-essential toy so I have no issues messing around with it. Root also makes your device insecure and can prevent you from using certain apps. I personally hate when people say "just root your phone" as if it is no big deal...

Honestly, it is no big deal. The 'insecurity' of root is generally exaggerated (especially be those who don't actually know what it is...). There really isn't any extra risk unless you create it by installing random apps that require root and grant it access to Superuser. Rooting doesn't magically give hackers access to your device, it just allows you and apps you authenticate to access and write to your root file system.

This video explains it all - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czTkHe7-lXw I recommend anyone who doesn't know much about root, or is skeptical, watch it.

As everyone can tell, I am a huge self-proclaimed "Android Root Activist"....:o

swoosh0217
May 11, 2013, 02:39 AM
Mine is rooted and I flashed a custom ROM called Revolution 8.0. I also have a kernel called Bulletproof where I can swype from back button towards home button to wake up the phone. I also have a custom theme running. Sense is very stable no lag at all.

http://i793.photobucket.com/albums/yy213/swoosh0217/Screenshot_2013-05-09-22-42-26-1.png (http://s793.photobucket.com/user/swoosh0217/media/Screenshot_2013-05-09-22-42-26-1.png.html)

MacRumorUser
May 11, 2013, 02:46 AM
Don't worry, I'll hold you.

Ironically you said that and he got a 'DeathChill' running down his back :D:p;)

----------

Personally,

I think if you have to root your phone to make it better / perform as it should then the manufacturer has failed me. A device should work as it is, and it shouldn't require a massive learning curve, lots of roms and software, a PC or convoluted mac route, terminal commands, or the voiding of my warranty to make it do so.....

Hastings101
May 12, 2013, 06:12 PM
I don't mess with rooting or custom kernel/rom things, too many bricked phone horror stories because someone made a tiny stupid mistake.

Sylon
May 12, 2013, 09:02 PM
If I like it how it is, then there's no point in rooting. I've done it before, it's alright, but I prefer to enjoy devices how they are. Reduces the risk of screwing something up. If I didn't like how a device was, then I wouldn't buy it in the first place.

Fernandez21
May 12, 2013, 09:52 PM
I have rooted my previous android phone and I did root my nexus 7 but for my galaxy nexus it is staying unrooted and stock. Why? There is nothing I want to change that root would achieve. Dealing with custom recoveries sucks and it is my phone not a toy. I need it to be rock solid and reliable as my main communication device before anything else. My nexus 7 on the other hand is a non-essential toy so I have no issues messing around with it. Root also makes your device insecure and can prevent you from using certain apps. I personally hate when people say "just root your phone" as if it is no big deal...

This. It seems just too much trouble just to change things around. And add in the instability and security issues that could come with it and I just don't feel like dealing with it.

As he said, this is my phone, not a toy, and I need it rock solid.

rockitdog
May 12, 2013, 11:00 PM
I don't root my devices because I don't need to. I just want a phone that works out of the box and doesn't need to be tinkered with. I'm not addicted to my phone like a lot of your are. My phone meets my needs (which is why I bought it in the first place) and I will use apps that help enhance my experience. Why do I need to do more work than that. Stuff I don't want or can't uninstall, I disable and thats, that.

xraydoc
May 12, 2013, 11:06 PM
I'm presently using a Razr Maxx HD. I recently rooted so I could freeze the Verizon bloat that was bogging the phone down. Not idle apps, mind you. But the various Verizon backup apps and other crap constantly running, chewing up nearly all available RAM.

Froze it all and got back like 100MB.

maxosx
May 12, 2013, 11:14 PM
I choose to root for the same reason I buy Android phones. For me it's fast, easy, and fun to customize the phone to my liking. In my case it's an ongoing practice due to the exciting highly dynamic software builds some of which are released as frequently as nightly.

Conversely my wife likes hers just as it comes, so I leave hers as it was delivered. Now that the top of the line Androids all come with ver: 4.1 or higher, there's no reason to root unless you're an enthusiast that enjoys it.

Tarzanman
May 13, 2013, 06:50 AM
Because I run Google Wallet. Google Wallet is less secure if the device boots up with user-level root access.

Its only one meager layer of added security, but it costs me nothing. I have a spare Galaxy Nexus if I want to play with ROMs and the like

mattopotamus
May 13, 2013, 06:54 AM
I don't root because I personally do not want to put the time into it....even if it takes very little time. It was similar to jailbreaking when I had an iphone. I did it a few times, but overall just left the phone stock because I didn't care to do it. Whenever there is an update, I would have to restore my phone, and then unless I rejailbreak/root my backup may been different than I expected.

Oh and the fact on Thursday the guy I work with went to update his note and bricked it.

nickchallis92
May 13, 2013, 07:40 AM
I have rooted just for titanium backup

jamezr
May 13, 2013, 07:45 AM
Root there it is...
I do root my phones only after seeing if the roms available have the extras i would need or like to have. But make no mistake about it. If you are to root your phone....you HAVE to take the time to learn what the process is that roots it and unroot. You HAVE to take the time to learn the basics on how to bring your phone back from a mistake that soft bricks the phone. If you don't want to take the time then rooting is not for you.
I would love to be able to run a pure vanilla Android on my SG4. Take off all the AT&T bloat and TouchWiz and run a pure Android experience. I can only do this if I root.
I don't see it as the phone manufacturer letting me down or not designing a better phone. I see it a the manufacturer designing a phone with all the options and functionality to please everyone. If i want to truly make the phone mine i have to customize it. Sometimes you can only do that by rooting and starting from scratch....but it is not for everyone.

----------

Mine is rooted and I flashed a custom ROM called Revolution 8.0. I also have a kernel called Bulletproof where I can swype from back button towards home button to wake up the phone. I also have a custom theme running. Sense is very stable no lag at all.

Image (http://s793.photobucket.com/user/swoosh0217/media/Screenshot_2013-05-09-22-42-26-1.png.html)
Awesome! Looks great!

----------

I have rooted just for titanium backup
That and Rom Manager....being able to make a complete backup of your phone and restore it....all app data and everything. Plus you can keep your backups on an external SD card to save space.

0dev
May 13, 2013, 07:46 AM
This thread:

http://i.imgur.com/QZBLYjM.png

:rolleyes:

chagla
May 13, 2013, 08:00 AM
...
I think if you have to root your phone to make it better / perform as it should then the manufacturer has failed me. A device should work as it is, and it shouldn't require a massive learning curve, lots of roms and software, a PC or convoluted mac route, terminal commands, or the voiding of my warranty to make it do so.....

You don't have to root an Android phone to make it "work". Also over 90% of customizations on Android can be done by anyone without rooting. its just a matter of installing the replacement app from play store.

rooting is actually for hardcore geeks who probably want to flash different roms, overclocking etc.

----------

.....
I would love to be able to run a pure vanilla Android on my SG4. Take off all the AT&T bloat and TouchWiz and run a pure Android experience. I can only do this if I root.
I don't see it as the phone manufacturer letting me down or not designing a better phone. I see it a the manufacturer designing a phone with all the options and functionality to please everyone. If i want to truly make the phone mine i have to customize it. Sometimes you can only do that by rooting and starting from scratch....but it is not for everyone.[COLOR="#808080"]

----------
.
no rooting needed.
not sure if you tried this. i noticed on Android 4.x you can actually goto settings > applications> All

and "disable" the att bloatwares. if you updated the bloats through play store, try to uninstall the update and then the "disable' button should be visible. otherwise it would say "uninstall updates" when you go to settings.

once disabled, icons disappear and they stop running. you can reboot few times to verify.

:cool:

jamezr
May 13, 2013, 08:08 AM
You don't have to root an Android phone to make it "work". Also over 90% of customizations on Android can be done by anyone without rooting. its just a matter of installing the replacement app from play store.

rooting is actually for hardcore geeks who probably want to flash different roms, overclocking etc.

----------


no rooting needed.
not sure if you tried this. i noticed on Android 4.x you can actually goto settings > applications> All

and "disable" the att bloatwares. if you updated the bloats through play store, try to uninstall the update and then the "disable' button should be visible. otherwise it would say "uninstall updates" when you go to settings.

once disabled, icons disappear and they stop running. you can reboot few times to verify.

:cool:
Yes....but it does not remove them.......
Once the bootloader exploit is released at the end of the month. I can run different roms from my phone depending on how I feel that day. I can decide it I want to run a TouchWiz rom that day or a pure vanilla Android. Plus being able to remove all the bloatware or software from my phone frees up space on the OS partition as well.

mattopotamus
May 13, 2013, 08:15 AM
Yes....but it does not remove them.......
Once the bootloader exploit is released at the end of the month. I can run different roms from my phone depending on how I feel that day. I can decide it I want to run a TouchWiz rom that day or a pure vanilla Android. Plus being able to remove all the bloatware or software from my phone frees up space on the OS partition as well.

Why do that? I am not trolling or anything, but seriously would like to know the benefit of toggling different set ups. That just seems very counterproductive to me. If you hate touchwiz just use vanilla and be done with it. That seems like a chore to me constantly switching between the two.

KentuckyHouse
May 13, 2013, 08:38 AM
Why do that? I am not trolling or anything, but seriously would like to know the benefit of toggling different set ups. That just seems very counterproductive to me. If you hate touchwiz just use vanilla and be done with it. That seems like a chore to me constantly switching between the two.

It's really not a chore at all. You just make a Nandroid backup of your current setup, then flash the new ROM, then restore your apps from Titanium Backup. If you like that setup, you can go into recovery again, make a Nandroid of the new ROM, and from then on, you can flash back and forth from one ROM to another in just a minute or two.

This is easiest on phones that support external SD, since Nandroid backups can easily be 1gb or more in size. You simply move them from your internal memory to the SD and you're not eating up tons of space on your phone's memory.

mattopotamus
May 13, 2013, 08:52 AM
It's really not a chore at all. You just make a Nandroid backup of your current setup, then flash the new ROM, then restore your apps from Titanium Backup. If you like that setup, you can go into recovery again, make a Nandroid of the new ROM, and from then on, you can flash back and forth from one ROM to another in just a minute or two.

This is easiest on phones that support external SD, since Nandroid backups can easily be 1gb or more in size. You simply move them from your internal memory to the SD and you're not eating up tons of space on your phone's memory.

you just spoke a different language to me haha. That still does not explain why you would want to do that. Wouldn't the ideal setup be getting the phone the way you like it and leave it that way or tweak it? Why change the layout entirely on a day to day basis?

Prototypical
May 13, 2013, 08:53 AM
This thread:

Image (http://i.imgur.com/QZBLYjM.png)

:rolleyes:

This sums up a lot of Android fanatics, actually. :p

Rooting is not acceptable to a lot of people with security-sensitive positions. "Root isn't that insecure?" Tell that to my IT department. I'm not getting fired because I want my phone to look like Iron Man or because I don't want to see a few banner ads (especially when you can get rid of them when you actually PAY for apps). The phone should work as intended when I take it out of the box... or it isn't the phone for me.

It's sort of like modifying a car - if you have to spend time modding it to make it work like you want it to, then you should have purchased a different car to begin with.

rockitdog
May 13, 2013, 09:08 AM
this sums up a lot of android fanatics, actually. :p

rooting is not acceptable to a lot of people with security-sensitive positions. "root isn't that insecure?" tell that to my it department. I'm not getting fired because i want my phone to look like iron man or because i don't want to see a few banner ads (especially when you can get rid of them when you actually pay for apps). The phone should work as intended when i take it out of the box... Or it isn't the phone for me.

It's sort of like modifying a car - if you have to spend time modding it to make it work like you want it to, then you should have purchased a different car to begin with.

^^^this^^^

jamezr
May 13, 2013, 09:32 AM
Why do that? I am not trolling or anything, but seriously would like to know the benefit of toggling different set ups. That just seems very counterproductive to me. If you hate touchwiz just use vanilla and be done with it. That seems like a chore to me constantly switching between the two.
Not a chore at all...I love having a different setup sometimes. I can switch between different look and feel entirely. I can set my phone up just the way I like it and then back it up with RM. Then do the same with another rom with a different look and feel. Then if I feel like CM rom today then 3 minutes and i ma there. Maybe vanilla Android flavor rom......3 minutes in Rom Manager and I am there with all my apps and all the app data as well. I guess it just comes down to individual tastes....to each his own! :-)

----------

This sums up a lot of Android fanatics, actually. :p

Rooting is not acceptable to a lot of people with security-sensitive positions. "Root isn't that insecure?" Tell that to my IT department. I'm not getting fired because I want my phone to look like Iron Man or because I don't want to see a few banner ads (especially when you can get rid of them when you actually PAY for apps). The phone should work as intended when I take it out of the box... or it isn't the phone for me.

It's sort of like modifying a car - if you have to spend time modding it to make it work like you want it to, then you should have purchased a different car to begin with.
I work in an IT department....we don't want everyday people to have access to root or local admin on their machines because....well they make changes and it leads to additional support calls. Then the user is complaining because their workstation/phone/tablet doesn't work they way it used to......
Company products are set with restrictions for a reason....some are security related. Some are for sake of standardization and ongoing support.
Plus you should not be rooting company work products. That should just be for personal equipment.

Edit:
I have a Toyota Tundra 4x4. First thing I did was lift it and put bigger tires on it. I take it off road and the factory setup would not cut it. So to make it meet my needs I customized it....it did not void the warranty. Now I enjoy my truck so much more than if i just left it stock.......
Edit #2
If i could order my phone customized the way I want....that would be awesome! Plus do you have a case on your phone? Why? I did not come that way. If the manufacturer wanted a case on the phone it would come that way......

sentinelsx
May 13, 2013, 09:45 AM
May be some people are new to android and don't feel the need. Also if you are a newbie and end up going to XDA forums for hacking stuff, expect to be ridiculed, looked down upon, berated by all the god complex guys there who think anyone who comes there must have two PHDs in software engineering. First they absolutely suck at writing proper instructions without skipping something that seems minor to them but would be crucial to a newbie, then if that poor newbie asks them something, well, i can imagine them all frothing at their mouths.

I was reading the AOKP thread once to figure out something and saw this one guy posting about his reboot issue and there were 3 pages of name calling and berating instead of one simple post that gives him the answer in 2 lines. I decided to PM him and helped out to figure what was going wrong. Turns out he screwed up two steps but they were not laid out in a way that would not be confusing to him.

So yeah, don't ever expect the majority to root, let alone install a ROM, when they see what social rejects they have to deal with on XDA.

This actually brings to mind a great novel from Michael Chricton named "airframe", where Casey Singleton of Norton Aircraft explains to her assistant about the lead engineers being stingy, when she says "their bodies have grown up, but their minds are stuck at the childish age when they discovered toys, and that is where they remain".

jamezr
May 13, 2013, 09:54 AM
May be some people are new to android and don't feel the need. Also if you are a newbie and end up going to XDA forums for hacking stuff, expect to be ridiculed, looked down upon, berated by all the god complex guys there who think anyone who comes there must have two PHDs in software engineering. First they absolutely suck at writing proper instructions without skipping something that seems minor to them but would be crucial to a newbie, then if that poor newbie asks them something, well, i can imagine them all frothing at their mouths.

I was reading the AOKP thread once to figure out something and saw this one guy posting about his reboot issue and there were 3 pages of name calling and berating instead of one simple post that gives him the answer in 2 lines. I decided to PM him and helped out to figure what was going wrong. Turns out he screwed up two steps but they were not laid out in a way that would not be confusing to him.

So yeah, don't ever expect the majority to root, let alone install a ROM, when they see what social rejects they have to deal with on XDA.
that is awful! That should never happen.......some people are just jerks.
I have not had that happen to me.....most of the people on the XDA forums I am on are only there to help.

mattopotamus
May 13, 2013, 09:55 AM
May be some people are new to android and don't feel the need. Also if you are a newbie and end up going to XDA forums for hacking stuff, expect to be ridiculed, looked down upon, berated by all the god complex guys there who think anyone who comes there must have two PHDs in software engineering. First they absolutely suck at writing proper instructions without skipping something that seems minor to them but would be crucial to a newbie, then if that poor newbie asks them something, well, i can imagine them all frothing at their mouths.

I was reading the AOKP thread once to figure out something and saw this one guy posting about his reboot issue and there were 3 pages of name calling and berating instead of one simple post that gives him the answer in 2 lines. I decided to PM him and helped out to figure what was going wrong. Turns out he screwed up two steps but they were not laid out in a way that would not be confusing to him.

So yeah, don't ever expect the majority to root, let alone install a ROM, when they see what social rejects they have to deal with on XDA.

So true, and the bad thing is when you google "rooting 'X' phone" they are the first website that pops up. It really is a deterrent.

KentuckyHouse
May 13, 2013, 10:06 AM
you just spoke a different language to me haha. That still does not explain why you would want to do that. Wouldn't the ideal setup be getting the phone the way you like it and leave it that way or tweak it? Why change the layout entirely on a day to day basis?

LOL...yeah, it can be a bit of odd language to someone that hasn't heard the terminology before.

Different ROMs offer different things. Some people like a stock ROM that has all the bloat removed and that's it. Others want the most forward-thinking, do it all ROM that's cutting edge in it's abilities. And then there are people like me that want to try both. :D

Stock ROMs that are just debloated versions of the carrier ROMs are the most stable. They're going to give the user that needs stability the best experience, while keeping the things that the phone maker included (such as all the bells and whistles that Samsung likes to try on it's phones).

Custom ROMs, like CM or AOSP/AOKP, are pushing the limits of what's possible. It's all about giving the user the ability to do things the OEM never envisioned (or didn't implement). The problem with these, at least at first, is that they can be a bit unstable and even simple things like the camera may not work correctly. But these bugs usually get ironed out over time until you're left with a ROM that is not only stable, but amazing in it's features.

By having a Nandroid of both of these (a Nandroid backup literally backs up the entire phone...layout, options, everything...thus why it's so large), you can switch from one to the other in just a couple of minutes. So, lets say you're a user that needs the stability of the stock ROM during the work day, but want the bells and whistles of the custom ROM on the weekends or at night. Just boot into recovery and flash whichever one you need and you're good to go.

----------

May be some people are new to android and don't feel the need. Also if you are a newbie and end up going to XDA forums for hacking stuff, expect to be ridiculed, looked down upon, berated by all the god complex guys there who think anyone who comes there must have two PHDs in software engineering. First they absolutely suck at writing proper instructions without skipping something that seems minor to them but would be crucial to a newbie, then if that poor newbie asks them something, well, i can imagine them all frothing at their mouths.

I was reading the AOKP thread once to figure out something and saw this one guy posting about his reboot issue and there were 3 pages of name calling and berating instead of one simple post that gives him the answer in 2 lines. I decided to PM him and helped out to figure what was going wrong. Turns out he screwed up two steps but they were not laid out in a way that would not be confusing to him.

So yeah, don't ever expect the majority to root, let alone install a ROM, when they see what social rejects they have to deal with on XDA.

This actually brings to mind a great novel from Michael Chricton named "airframe", where Casey Singleton of Norton Aircraft explains to her assistant about the lead engineers being stingy, when she says "their bodies have grown up, but their minds are stuck at the childish age when they discovered toys, and that is where they remain".

I completely get what you're saying here. And you're right.

There's one developer over on XDA that treats his users with such disdain that I won't flash his ROMs, even though they're generally considered the best for that particular phone. I won't name him, but honestly, he's a complete douche.

The worst part is, he has two threads for a particular ROM...one is the development thread and you're only supposed to post thing in that thread that pertain to advancing the ROM. That's it. If you post one little question, you get slammed and shamed. It's stupid. Of course, if you post how great the ROM is and how amazing the developer is and you thank him for his work, he doesn't do anything but say thanks. :rolleyes:

The second thread he has is supposed to be for support and questions about the ROM. Unfortunately, if you ask a question in that thread (which is what it's for), you get hit with the "why don't you search?" question or ":rolleyes: this has been answered a hundred times!" It's infuriating and has made me decide that no matter how good his ROMs are, it's not worth the hassle of dealing with him.

sentinelsx
May 13, 2013, 10:14 AM
LOL...yeah, it can be a bit of odd language to someone that hasn't heard the terminology before.

Different ROMs offer different things. Some people like a stock ROM that has all the bloat removed and that's it. Others want the most forward-thinking, do it all ROM that's cutting edge in it's abilities. And then there are people like me that want to try both. :D

Stock ROMs that are just debloated versions of the carrier ROMs are the most stable. They're going to give the user that needs stability the best experience, while keeping the things that the phone maker included (such as all the bells and whistles that Samsung likes to try on it's phones).

Custom ROMs, like CM or AOSP/AOKP, are pushing the limits of what's possible. It's all about giving the user the ability to do things the OEM never envisioned (or didn't implement). The problem with these, at least at first, is that they can be a bit unstable and even simple things like the camera may not work correctly. But these bugs usually get ironed out over time until you're left with a ROM that is not only stable, but amazing in it's features.

By having a Nandroid of both of these (a Nandroid backup literally backs up the entire phone...layout, options, everything...thus why it's so large), you can switch from one to the other in just a couple of minutes. So, lets say you're a user that needs the stability of the stock ROM during the work day, but want the bells and whistles of the custom ROM on the weekends or at night. Just boot into recovery and flash whichever one you need and you're good to go.

----------



I completely get what you're saying here. And you're right.

There's one developer over on XDA that treats his users with such disdain that I won't flash his ROMs, even though they're generally considered the best for that particular phone. I won't name him, but honestly, he's a complete douche.

The worst part is, he has two threads for a particular ROM...one is the development thread and you're only supposed to post thing in that thread that pertain to advancing the ROM. That's it. If you post one little question, you get slammed and shamed. It's stupid. Of course, if you post how great the ROM is and how amazing the developer is and you thank him for his work, he doesn't do anything but say thanks. :rolleyes:

The second thread he has is supposed to be for support and questions about the ROM. Unfortunately, if you ask a question in that thread (which is what it's for), you get hit with the "why don't you search?" question or ":rolleyes: this has been answered a hundred times!" It's infuriating and has made me decide that no matter how good his ROMs are, it's not worth the hassle of dealing with him.

Are you talking about task? haha!

I admire his development work. I never bother to ask him questions though. Instead i just search around or test stuff because him and his henchmen are terrible to deal with. Too many people have dealt with their wrath from what i have seen. Just like the event i described. Thankfully i have been flashing since i had a captivate so i know to read the instructions at least 10 times and figure out any thing missing or vague before i proceed but i do not expect anyone else to do that. I appreciate that he is a busy man but if he has time to post 2 pages of drivel, he certainly has 30 seconds to answer something that is second nature to him. I don't get the point.

And yeah, the "support" threads are usually "search that 1000 page thread with a million posts to find what you are asking". At which point many just say "***** it, not worth it" and go back. Seriously, those guys lack a lot in people skills.

It has come to the point where a local cellphone thread has more helpful answers about his ROM on the S3 than the XDA "support" thread itself. Funny ain't it.

MacRumorUser
May 13, 2013, 10:16 AM
You don't have to root an Android phone to make it "work". Also over 90% of customizations on Android can be done by anyone without rooting. its just a matter of installing the replacement app from play store.

rooting is actually for hardcore geeks who probably want to flash different roms, overclocking etc.[COLOR="#808080"]

that was my point ;)

chagla
May 13, 2013, 10:18 AM
This sums up a lot of Android fanatics, actually. :p

Rooting is not acceptable to a lot of people with security-sensitive positions. "Root isn't that insecure?" Tell that to my IT department. I'm not getting fired because I want my phone to look like Iron Man or because I don't want to see a few banner ads (especially when you can get rid of them when you actually PAY for apps). The phone should work as intended when I take it out of the box... or it isn't the phone for me.

It's sort of like modifying a car - if you have to spend time modding it to make it work like you want it to, then you should have purchased a different car to begin with.

and this sums up iphone fanatics quite nicely. :p
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FL7yD-0pqZg

You see, how YOU use YOUR phone is different from the way I use MY phone. so what is a manufacturer to do? clearly they wont market a jailbroken iphone or rooted Android phone. It is UP TO THE USER whether they want to jailbreak/root. implying that if you root/jb your phone then phone is somehow defective is flawed logic. every phone works out of the box as manufacturer intended (it makes calls, does other things). you may like (or dislike) it. but then as a USER, YOU have the option to root/jb if you don't like factory settings.

sentinelsx
May 13, 2013, 10:21 AM
and this sums up iphone users quite nicely. :p
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FL7yD-0pqZg

You see, how YOU use YOUR phone is different from the way I use MY phone. so what is a manufacturer to do? clearly they wont market a jailbroken iphone or rooted Android phone. It is UP TO THE USER whether they want to jailbreak/root. implying that if you root/jb your phone then phone is somehow defective is flawed logic. every phone works out of the box as manufacturer intended (it makes calls, does other things). you may like (or dislike) it. but then as a USER, YOU have the option to root/jb if you don't like factory settings.

User = fanatic?

At least he didn't bunch the users with fanatics, but you went ahead and added everyone to your list. Good job being objective about it.

KentuckyHouse
May 13, 2013, 10:24 AM
Are you talking about task? haha!

I admire his development work. I never bother to ask him questions though. Instead i just search around or test stuff because him and his henchmen are terrible to deal with. Too many people have dealt with their wrath from what i have seen. Just like the event i described. Thankfully i have been flashing since i had a captivate so i know to read the instructions at least 10 times and figure out any thing missing or vague before i proceed but i do not expect anyone else to do that. I appreciate that he is a busy man but if he has time to post 2 pages of drivel, he certainly has 30 seconds to answer something that is second nature to him. I don't get the point.

And yeah, the "support" threads are usually "search that 1000 page thread with a million posts to find what you are asking". At which point many just say "***** it, not worth it" and go back. Seriously, those guys lack a lot in people skills.

It has come to the point where a local cellphone thread has more helpful answers about his ROM on the S3 than the XDA "support" thread itself. Funny ain't it.

LOL...yep, that's him. I agree with you...his work is amazing, but he's such a pain to deal with I've just decided to avoid him altogether. And you're right, if he spent half the time he spends referring people to the OP and just answered simple questions, a lot more would get done.

The best is how he expects new users to know how to report problems correctly. Say someone posts about an issue that's come up. He'll then come back and say, with an attitude, that just telling him that doesn't help him. He needs details. So the person comes back with more details. Then he'll bash them again and tell them he needs more than that, he needs a catlog. Nevermind that a new users doesn't know what a catlog is, let alone how to go about getting one and posting it.

He's just annoying.

viskon
May 13, 2013, 10:38 AM
While I generally agree with people not wanting to root their phones unless there is a need that stock does not meet, I also think that buying any device that has a locked bootloader or no root exploit is like buying a PC without admin rights ; sure 90%of the time you'd be fine, but the device never really is "yours". It is more like your locked down office computer.

jamezr
May 13, 2013, 10:46 AM
While I generally agree with people not wanting to root their phones unless there is a need that stock does not meet, I also think that buying any device that has a locked bootloader or no root exploit is like buying a PC without admin rights ; sure 90%of the time you'd be fine, but the device never really is "yours". It is more like your locked down office computer.
I agree with most of what you said......BUT the difference is if you buy the phone outright for say $600....then the carrier will unlock the phone and it is your do with what you like....you have admin access....the device is yours. But if you buy a phone for say $199 on a 2 year contract....the carrier most likely not unlock your phone or give you the unlock codes until the contract is satisfied....

viskon
May 13, 2013, 11:01 AM
I agree with most of what you said......BUT the difference is if you buy the phone outright for say $600....then the carrier will unlock the phone and it is your do with what you like....you have admin access....the device is yours. But if you buy a phone for say $199 on a 2 year contract....the carrier most likely not unlock your phone or give you the unlock codes until the contract is satisfied....

A carrier unlock - I may be wrong - just allows you to change your service provider. That is, with carrier unlock, I can move my off contact phone from Tmobile to ATT.

But if the phone has no root exploit, you still are stuck with the features the phone manufacturer saddled you with. If I wanted to unlock my device by sliding my finger across the screen, I wouldn't be able to do that without having access at the kernel level.

sentinelsx
May 13, 2013, 11:03 AM
While I generally agree with people not wanting to root their phones unless there is a need that stock does not meet, I also think that buying any device that has a locked bootloader or no root exploit is like buying a PC without admin rights ; sure 90%of the time you'd be fine, but the device never really is "yours". It is more like your locked down office computer.

I don't know how to renovate my home by myself. I can't mod a car. I don't mess with my pc.

Guess I own nothing so far :(

viskon
May 13, 2013, 11:11 AM
I don't know how to renovate my home by myself. I can't mod a car. I don't mess with my pc.

Guess I own nothing so far :(

Point is that you can, if you want to.

sentinelsx
May 13, 2013, 11:17 AM
Point is that you can, if you want to.

I can also learn software engineering and unlock that bootloader :P

jamezr
May 13, 2013, 11:37 AM
A carrier unlock - I may be wrong - just allows you to change your service provider. That is, with carrier unlock, I can move my off contact phone from Tmobile to ATT.

But if the phone has no root exploit, you still are stuck with the features the phone manufacturer saddled you with. If I wanted to unlock my device by sliding my finger across the screen, I wouldn't be able to do that without having access at the kernel level.
it was my understanding that they will unlock your boot-loader if requested.....

----------

I can also learn software engineering and unlock that bootloader :P
Please do so....we could use your help unlocking boot loaders.... :)

daveathall
May 13, 2013, 11:39 AM
I have a MacBook Pro and find that the instructions to root aren't not that intuitive, I am also nervous of breaking my perfectly (for me) working phone. I have been happy with my (so far) three Android phones and have found no reason to root. I didn't jailbreak any of the 4 iPhones that I owned either.

viskon
May 13, 2013, 11:51 AM
I can also learn software engineering and unlock that bootloader :P

Or just buy a Nexus :p

sentinelsx
May 13, 2013, 11:57 AM
it was my understanding that they will unlock your boot-loader if requested.....

----------


Please do so....we could use your help unlocking boot loaders.... :)

If i have time sure i don't mind. Right now i am playing around with android SDK to learn to make apps though.

I was replying to viskon about how it is the same thing everywhere. All i need is learn to do something and then i can mess with it. However, just because I am not doing it doesn't mean it is not "mine".

Prototypical
May 13, 2013, 12:11 PM
I work in an IT department....we don't want everyday people to have access to root or local admin on their machines because....well they make changes and it leads to additional support calls. Then the user is complaining because their workstation/phone/tablet doesn't work they way it used to......
Company products are set with restrictions for a reason....some are security related. Some are for sake of standardization and ongoing support.
Plus you should not be rooting company work products. That should just be for personal equipment.

Edit:
I have a Toyota Tundra 4x4. First thing I did was lift it and put bigger tires on it. I take it off road and the factory setup would not cut it. So to make it meet my needs I customized it....it did not void the warranty. Now I enjoy my truck so much more than if i just left it stock.......
Edit #2
If i could order my phone customized the way I want....that would be awesome! Plus do you have a case on your phone? Why? I did not come that way. If the manufacturer wanted a case on the phone it would come that way......

I completely agree on the IT issue... I DON'T root my phone (or JB for my current situation) for that very reason... But the OP's original point was, "why don't you do it? It's awesome!" I don't root/JB because I don't really want to piss off my IT department and/or get fired for violating my organization's data security policies. My interest in doing it or not doing it is irrelevant.

To your point about the truck - I'm a car enthusiast too. I DO modify my cars, but I do so at my own risk. My manufacturer isn't as forgiving with modifications so I could lose my warranty for a number of reasons. Even still, I don't do any major mods because I choose my base platform carefully. I see a lot of guys in our online community changing bumpers, skirts, wheels, interiors, EVERYTHING. If the car sucked that much to start with, why buy it in the first place?

I don't have a case on my phone, no. I keep one for odd situations but 95% of the time it is exactly as it purchased it... because one of the reasons I chose the phone I have is because I like the look and feel of it. If the phone was ugly enough to make me want to cover it up, I'd find another phone.

sentinelsx
May 13, 2013, 12:14 PM
Or just buy a Nexus :p

I would say something, but it will anger bmac4.

Anyhow, the nexus is not worth to me, and owning the nexus doesn't necessarily mean I will mess around with it :)

jamezr
May 13, 2013, 03:02 PM
Or just buy a Nexus :p
great point!

----------

I completely agree on the IT issue... I DON'T root my phone (or JB for my current situation) for that very reason... But the OP's original point was, "why don't you do it? It's awesome!" I don't root/JB because I don't really want to piss off my IT department and/or get fired for violating my organization's data security policies. My interest in doing it or not doing it is irrelevant.

To your point about the truck - I'm a car enthusiast too. I DO modify my cars, but I do so at my own risk. My manufacturer isn't as forgiving with modifications so I could lose my warranty for a number of reasons. Even still, I don't do any major mods because I choose my base platform carefully. I see a lot of guys in our online community changing bumpers, skirts, wheels, interiors, EVERYTHING. If the car sucked that much to start with, why buy it in the first place?

I don't have a case on my phone, no. I keep one for odd situations but 95% of the time it is exactly as it purchased it... because one of the reasons I chose the phone I have is because I like the look and feel of it. If the phone was ugly enough to make me want to cover it up, I'd find another phone.
I agree with you on the online car/truck forums...... I have some friends that take it to the extreme. But then...that is their choice and great for them. I never put a case on my phones either. I like them just the way they are...but I also like to get additional performance or options from roms as well. In the end everyone has their unique style and preferences. It is what keeps the world from being so boring.....

MegamanX
May 13, 2013, 03:35 PM
Ironically you said that and he got a 'DeathChill' running down his back :D:p;)

----------

Personally,

I think if you have to root your phone to make it better / perform as it should then the manufacturer has failed me. A device should work as it is, and it shouldn't require a massive learning curve, lots of roms and software, a PC or convoluted mac route, terminal commands, or the voiding of my warranty to make it do so.....

Just going to point out that rooting is over rated and not needed.
iPhone gains a lot more over stock being jail broken than Android gains by being rooted.

Unlocking the boot loader is different than rooting. Hell you can unlock the boot loader with out rooting. Just you do not see someone who has an unlock boot loader and not rooted happen very often.

As for rooting most people if you ask them why they did it you will really find only a handful of answers than really need root.

My android phone is rooted. There are 2 big reasons why I rooted my phone, First it was to install adblocking software. 2 it is to allow free tethering as like hell am i giving up my unlimited data plan.

Out side of that I have no real reason to use it. I have not used it to remove anything from the device or edit anything yet.

Just going to point that out.

Stuntman06
May 13, 2013, 06:20 PM
There is only one thing that I would like to be able to do that requires rooting. That is the ability to switch keyboards automatically when I switch between landscape and portrait. I find that SwiftKey is the best keyboard for typing in landscape and Swype is the best keyboard for typing in portrait. Right now I just switch manually. Maybe if I get fed up with having to do it manually, I will root my phone.

Dontazemebro
May 13, 2013, 07:11 PM
It's definitely worth it. I use keyboard manager all the time.

Djlild7hina
May 13, 2013, 09:01 PM
Personally I bought the international version of the s3 so I wouldn't have to deal with bloatware and all that stuff. Plus I have no idea where to begin if I do so I'm content with stock.

hexonxonx
May 13, 2013, 09:41 PM
I don't have a need to. My Nexus 4 and Nexus 7 do everything I need them to.

The only reason I JB my 4S is because I can't block calls. Until Apple ever allows complete call blocking, I JB my iPhones.

dkersten
May 14, 2013, 09:56 PM
I just rooted my Nexus 4. Had problems trying to root my S3 previously. I'm excited to fully utilize apps such as tasker. Will look into ROM's but right now I'm happy

jamezr
May 15, 2013, 08:05 AM
Just going to point out that rooting is over rated and not needed.
iPhone gains a lot more over stock being jail broken than Android gains by being rooted.

Unlocking the boot loader is different than rooting. Hell you can unlock the boot loader with out rooting. Just you do not see someone who has an unlock boot loader and not rooted happen very often.

As for rooting most people if you ask them why they did it you will really find only a handful of answers than really need root.

My android phone is rooted. There are 2 big reasons why I rooted my phone, First it was to install adblocking software. 2 it is to allow free tethering as like hell am i giving up my unlimited data plan.

Out side of that I have no real reason to use it. I have not used it to remove anything from the device or edit anything yet.

Just going to point that out.
Those are great uses cases for you. Everyone has different reasons and use cases. But just to clarify a few things.
1) If you want admin access to your Android phone you will have to root it.
2) If you want admin access to your iPhone you will have to JailBreak it.
3) If you want to flash custom roms then you will have to unlock the bootloader. Not very easy to do unless the manufacturer provides the unlock keys. Or the Dev community finds a hack that allows the bootloader to be unlocked through other means.

MegamanX
May 15, 2013, 11:03 AM
Those are great uses cases for you. Everyone has different reasons and use cases. But just to clarify a few things.
1) If you want admin access to your Android phone you will have to root it.
2) If you want admin access to your iPhone you will have to JailBreak it.
3) If you want to flash custom roms then you will have to unlock the bootloader. Not very easy to do unless the manufacturer provides the unlock keys. Or the Dev community finds a hack that allows the bootloader to be unlocked through other means.

All is true.

But my use cases tend to be the more norm than the exception.

There are now multiple backup programs out there that work like the iPhone's where the backup is made connected to the computer. The one dumping to the SD card from the phone requires root and I have used that one and it is by far better than how the iPhone system works as it can be done with out being connected to a computer and dumped locally to the device.

jamezr
May 15, 2013, 11:09 AM
All is true.

But my use cases tend to be the more norm than the exception.

There are now multiple backup programs out there that work like the iPhone's where the backup is made connected to the computer. The one dumping to the SD card from the phone requires root and I have used that one and it is by far better than how the iPhone system works as it can be done with out being connected to a computer and dumped locally to the device.
Rom Manager works great after you have root. You don't have to flash roms but it will create a image of what your phone looked like at any given time. Then you can restore to that point anytime you want or need to. Titanium BackUp does somewhat the same except it can back up all of your apps to the SD card. Then you can restore those apps (with the app data) anytime you like. The beauty of having it on the SD card is you can replace the phone and still restore the apps with data by inserting the SD card. Both apps require root.....

durant35
May 16, 2013, 11:01 AM
One question I have always been curious about is why Android users, who are aware that it exists, don't root their devices? The benefits, far outweighing any downsides there may be, are huge and it greatly enhances the Android experience.

For me, I won't buy a device if the bootloader is completely locked down, no root exploit exists, or if there isn't a ROM available to my liking. Sounds like my kind of device is a Nexus, eh? Not really. I've never been into the Nexus phones much simply because they are not made by Google. At this point, I expect Google to start designing and creating their own devices, like with the Chromebook Pixel. I don't understand why they haven't taken this step forward yet.

So tell me, why don't you root or flash ROMs? Are you scared something may happen?

I rooted, installed and ran Cyanogenmod 10 running 4.2.2 on my Note 2 just last week. Used it for 3 days. What happened? My battery life turned to crap, signal went to non existent in places I always had signal, data would drop and I would have to reset my phone, the camera software was terrible and I lost all ability to use some of the TouchWiz features I enjoy. To top it all off, my phone was not noticeably faster, returned to stock a few days ago and all is well again. I've rooted before in the past with similar results. I don't see any benefits from it, far more negatives in fact.

jamezr
May 16, 2013, 12:33 PM
I rooted, installed and ran Cyanogenmod 10 running 4.2.2 on my Note 2 just last week. Used it for 3 days. What happened? My battery life turned to crap, signal went to non existent in places I always had signal, data would drop and I would have to reset my phone, the camera software was terrible and I lost all ability to use some of the TouchWiz features I enjoy. To top it all off, my phone was not noticeably faster, returned to stock a few days ago and all is well again. I've rooted before in the past with similar results. I don't see any benefits from it, far more negatives in fact.
one rom does not make or breaking the whole thing.......Try a different rom. Read what others are experiencing about the rom first. Do some homework before flashing.......try other roms for your phone.

durant35
May 16, 2013, 01:35 PM
one rom does not make or breaking the whole thing.......Try a different rom. Read what others are experiencing about the rom first. Do some homework before flashing.......try other roms for your phone.

I have, hence my sentence "I have rooted before in the past with similar results". Been early to flash builds where GPS or camera or LTE or other important things didnt run right or not at all and then have to boot back. Then you always run the risk of bricking your phone or not being able to fast boot back. Its far more trouble than its worth.

KentuckyHouse
May 16, 2013, 02:04 PM
I rooted, installed and ran Cyanogenmod 10 running 4.2.2 on my Note 2 just last week. Used it for 3 days. What happened? My battery life turned to crap, signal went to non existent in places I always had signal, data would drop and I would have to reset my phone, the camera software was terrible and I lost all ability to use some of the TouchWiz features I enjoy. To top it all off, my phone was not noticeably faster, returned to stock a few days ago and all is well again. I've rooted before in the past with similar results. I don't see any benefits from it, far more negatives in fact.

I don't disagree with you that there can be negatives involved, and while I understand you've rooted and installed custom ROMs before, it's hard to understand why you'd go with the most cutting-edge ROM when you decided to try it on your N2. Of course there are issues with CyanogenMod...it's a COMPLETELY different ROM from the stock ROM. You're making the phone do things it was never designed to do, so bugs should be expected.

Now, if you want the very best experience on the N2 (that's a stock look/feel without all the bloat), try CleanROM ACE. You get all the bells and whistles of stock TouchWiz without any of the bloatware. Best of all...everything works just as it does on the stock ROM.

I will say that I've settled into using stock custom ROMs now. I find that they run the best with the least amount of bugs. Once upon a time, I'd try all the Paranoid Android-type ROMs with all those amazing choices of what you could do to the phone, but in the end, function wins out over form for me.

Basically, the only reason I root anymore is to install ad blocking software and remove bloatware. Oh, and Titanium Backup...man, do I love that app!

Stuntman06
May 24, 2013, 03:14 PM
There is only one thing that I would like to be able to do that requires rooting. That is the ability to switch keyboards automatically when I switch between landscape and portrait. I find that SwiftKey is the best keyboard for typing in landscape and Swype is the best keyboard for typing in portrait. Right now I just switch manually. Maybe if I get fed up with having to do it manually, I will root my phone.

Well, I got fed up. Rooted my phone last night and installed Keyboard Manager.

TacticalDesire
May 24, 2013, 08:35 PM
I have no real need to.

otismotive77
May 26, 2013, 07:20 AM
Because they are capable to fill my needs 100% without rooting?

agreed, they are able to fulfill my needs without rooting.
rooting voids the phone's warranty and there's also a risk that your smartphone may turn into a "brick".

SlCKB0Y
May 26, 2013, 09:29 AM
"Root isn't that insecure?"

It's only as insecure as those apps which you grant root access to.

----------


rooting voids the phone's warranty

It doesn't in my country. In my country they would have to prove that the damage to the phone was directly attributable to it being rooted...

TheMTtakeover
May 26, 2013, 01:58 PM
Never had any reason too.

Mochi Hana
May 26, 2013, 02:31 PM
I haven't felt the need to, like a few others on this thread.

Stooby Mcdoobie
May 26, 2013, 11:14 PM
My company doesn't allow jailbroken/rooted phones to receive company email. If I did root, I'd have to carry around two phones - one of them a BlackBerry (yuck!).

mib1800
May 27, 2013, 12:59 AM
I just can't think of any must-have functionalities that are added once you root. (unlike jailbreaking in iOS).