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madamimadam
Dec 16, 2002, 07:28 PM
In a 'round about way, I have been informed that there will be a change to the PowerMac line around MWSF.

As to what it is, you know how tight Apple is.

I do not think it is a processor upgrade, to early for one of those. I am thinking Bluetooth..... possibly a price drop but that is just my speculation.

Chaszmyr
Dec 16, 2002, 08:00 PM
I wouldnt expect any hardware changes more dramatic than bluetooth, or maybe firewire2. Deffinately no processor upgrade, i think.

thedude
Dec 16, 2002, 08:14 PM
I must agree that firewire 2 is a strong possibility. If the Xraid gets released along side updates on the PM line, we could see firewire2 networking protocol as well.

It might be a small possibility for apple to announce the new 1.4Ghz g4's, then shift the 970 G5's to the pro line in mid 2003. Why save the faster proc if they have it in volume if they're going to change procs later anyway?
Because of the rumors that the Imac and emac line will be bumped to 1ghz. How lame would that be? to have a "pro" mac running at the same clock speed. Usually the bottom of the line tower is close to the same clock speed as the top of the line imac.

dual 867 vs single 800 currently.

I would think that a dual 867 vs a single 1ghz would lower sales of the tower model despite having a second proc.

WannabeSQ
Dec 16, 2002, 09:25 PM
Maybe dual 1ghz on the bottom PM and single Ghz on the imac emac. or something like dual 1067mhz just to make it marketably faster despite the other processor.


As for a change to the PM line, i wouldnt mind if they had semi pro and pro. Perhaps drop down to single processors for people that would get an iMac, but want PCI slots. I dunno.

Mr. Anderson
Dec 16, 2002, 09:49 PM
I don't see them changing the enclosure either, that will have to wait for the new processor (I hope!)

But getting bluetooth and firewire2 would be fantastic. Less than a month away.....


D :D

DavidFDM
Dec 16, 2002, 09:53 PM
Be nice to see ATA-133 instead of ATA-66 and 100, built-in Bluetooth, extra USB and FireWire ports on the front with a nice little door to hide them when not in use. I would also like to see the return of a third front-accessible bay. I like having the option for a Zip drive internally rather than another piece of desk clutter.

jrv3034
Dec 16, 2002, 10:46 PM
They'll most likely save the new case design for the new processor in late 2003. Now it'll probably be a speed bump and neat features like (hopefully) Firewire 2, USB 2, Bluetooth, etc.

I hope the PPC 970 brings about a new case design with it. Not that appearance is everything, but I really don't like the current "mirrored doors" look. Quicksilver was much cleaner and elegant. I personally think some sleek black and chrome towers would look spiffy.:D

pgwalsh
Dec 16, 2002, 11:30 PM
Originally posted by jrv3034


I hope the PPC 970 brings about a new case design with it. Not that appearance is everything, but I really don't like the current "mirrored doors" look.

What if they made the entire machine mirrored. doh!

thedude
Dec 17, 2002, 12:17 AM
I've been wanting apple to separate their "pro" line into two. One for speed freeks and one for pro's who require specific things. SCSI320, faster bus, pciX, agp8x, more RAM etc...
All the things that would blow up the cost and make it too expensive for "prosumers"

If they could bring in a machine under 5k that had these features, they would be able to compete with the workstations (not consumer towers) by dell, ibm, intergraph...

understand that this is more for businesses, not consumers. I think they need to position their hardware firmly into either the pro arena or the consumer one. By providing a mid tower consumer model, they would be able to focus high end developments on a pro line and trickle these down more quickly.

imac - 3 configs
powermac - 3 configs
promac - custom configs

What do you guys think?

pgwalsh
Dec 17, 2002, 12:33 AM
Originally posted by thedude
imac - 3 configs
powermac - 3 configs
promac - custom configs

What do you guys think?

I think it's a good idea. However, I think the consumer model should have the faster bus, picx etc. The main difference I can see is SCSI. So maybe they could have the same bus, agp, and allowable ram, but you'd be able to add scsi etc. Basically more configuration options.

madamimadam
Dec 17, 2002, 01:18 AM
Originally posted by pgwalsh


I think it's a good idea. However, I think the consumer model should have the faster bus, picx etc. The main difference I can see is SCSI. So maybe they could have the same bus, agp, and allowable ram, but you'd be able to add scsi etc. Basically more configuration options.

The only problem I see is that they can not bring out too many models or variations of models. Remember what happened last time Apple had a machine suited to the needs of every user they could think of?

thedude
Dec 17, 2002, 03:03 AM
The biggest problem with apples models in the past (performa/powermac/centris)
was that many of these models were the same. I think that if apple can keep 4 models, emac, imac, powermac, promac and have different configs for each, there wouldn't be as many problems. With their move into high end DCC, apple needs to compete with purpose built workstations from pc manufacturers.
Much like dell, hp, ibm, they offer features specific to their workstation lines. I think apple is playing the field very carefully with the economy as it is. Maybe the end of 2003 or early 2004 we'll see a high end lineup. (hoping!)

Falleron
Dec 17, 2002, 05:27 AM
I bet they announce them at MWSF + they dont ship them until febuary. Or, they just wait until february to announce them like this year. This gives Motorola a little more time to get their new chips out. I expect:

Dual 1.5Ghz
512Mb standard
200Mhz Bus
ATI 9700 Pro card
Firewire 2
USB 1
Bluetooth
Faster Superdrive
Airport 2

This is an optimistic opinion. However, it is entirely possible if apple wanted to (assuming Motorola can give us quicker chips). Also, they know that they need a large speed bump if possible.

rice_web
Dec 17, 2002, 06:43 AM
I'd venture to say that we'll see a 200MHz system bus, but I'm not sure if 1.5GHz is on the way; possibly a minor jump to 1.4GHz.

benixau
Dec 17, 2002, 07:52 AM
moto is strugling. the G4 1.25 is a 7455A at heart. the main thing to look at is the A. In other words. These chips were an anomoly at the 1ghz production line.

What do you expect? 7455B and C. no way.

Look more for firewire2, bluetooth (unlikely given pbook ugrades), XServe ugrade to 1.25 and XServe RAID.

not much else. maybe the removal of the g3 imacs??

DakotaGuy
Dec 17, 2002, 08:05 AM
Originally posted by benixau
moto is strugling. the G4 1.25 is a 7455A at heart. the main thing to look at is the A. In other words. These chips were an anomoly at the 1ghz production line.

What do you expect? 7455B and C. no way.

Look more for firewire2, bluetooth (unlikely given pbook ugrades), XServe ugrade to 1.25 and XServe RAID.

not much else. maybe the removal of the g3 imacs??

Isn't the 7457 just about ready? I would think if Apple can shift to this new chip the 1.5Ghz will not be much of an issue.

ethan
Dec 17, 2002, 09:54 AM
All this talk of new PM features coming at MWSF is great...BUT...what about the main problems with the current MDD G4s? The NOISE...the whining power supplies, the audio bugs and humming...the general overheating...What do you guys think? Any new features will be moot unless Apple clears up the problems with this current generation of G4s. If they pass the noise problems to the new G4s in January, they are going to lose even more top-end loyal buyers. I just hope they have the brains to realize that the noise problems have to be solved in the new 2003 PMs. Could Apple be that stupid? Hmmm?

Falleron
Dec 17, 2002, 09:56 AM
Well, the new G4 from motorola should be built on 0.13micron process. I think I am right in saying that. This means they will produce less heat + therefore require less fans. Couple with that Apple will use a quieter fans + think we wont have a problem.

pgwalsh
Dec 17, 2002, 12:23 PM
IMO there's not much that separates the guts from the pro line and the consumer line. You could argue ddr faster bus and pci slots. But since the fsr isn't fully implemented we know ddr and the faster bus aren't much of a factor. So we have PCI slots and Dual Processors and the option for a faster video card another optical drive bay and more places to put HD. That's not that much of a difference (maybe it is). Most of that can be accomblished with external drives and you have to pay for it anyway. With the consumer line you get a monitor, which you have to pay extra for with the pro line. With the money a monitor would cost you could add the extra's.

Imgine if they came standard with:
3 Gigs of RAM
2 HD 120 Gigs (configured like xserve)
SuperDrive and CDR Drives.
Best Video Card On the Market.
Speakers

Same Price points

Then the powermac starts to look like it has some power. Add new features like USB 2, FireWire 2/b, Serial ATA, PCIX, and True DDR and things start getting me hard.

Still pay extra for the monitor - no problem I'd be glad and that 23" looks great.

Mr. Dibbs
Dec 17, 2002, 03:17 PM
actaully, moto, as well as IBM, will be moving to 90 nanometer processes from 130 nanometer processes, which are the present dye size. it should be in the maccentral archives somewhere. as far as updates and what not, I agree with the earlier statement that apple is playing the market carefully right now. the PB line has been the most problematic, and even though people complain about noise in the power macs, that doean't affect machine performance. -Dibbs

Flickta
Dec 17, 2002, 03:49 PM
I am also for the return of the Quicksilver. And a bit faster silver also.

1+
1.25
1.4
?

cubist
Dec 17, 2002, 04:05 PM
... which is actually the most recent case design, and it follows somewhat the "theme" of the TiBook. The speedhole case is just a modified el capitan; probably they didn't spend a lot of time on it.

Also, I don't think it's true that case designs and processors change at the same time. The el capitan case came out in the middle of the G3 series.

The speedhole el capitan (mirrored drive doors) came out in Aug '02, so around April '03 could be the new case design, possibly with a speedbump, or maybe even the 7457. The 970's would go in the *same* new case, probably around Jul '03 or later.

Earlier this year we expected a new case looking much like the Xserve; I still think that's the most likely new design. There were some excellent photoshops in earlier threads.

Wano
Dec 18, 2002, 09:33 AM
What is the "pro line"?

MacsRgr8
Dec 18, 2002, 03:42 PM
Originally posted by WannabeSQ


As for a change to the PM line, i wouldnt mind if they had semi pro and pro. Perhaps drop down to single processors for people that would get an iMac, but want PCI slots. I dunno.

My thoughts exactly. Get a single 1 GHz G4 with a GeForce 4 Ti (or Radeon 9700, where are you?), and you'll have the perfect upgradable, affordable, home-Mac. Gr8 for gaming, and a very nice iApps-machine. You can still use your old VGA monitor, SCSI card etc.

krhodus
Dec 18, 2002, 04:53 PM
a friend of mine who is an apple ACT said that the G3 iMacs are going to be dropped, probably the flat screen iMacs, and that every product is going to be redesigned. The eMac probably wil stay the same, but might be given a new case and/or name.

pgwalsh
Dec 18, 2002, 05:17 PM
Originally posted by krhodus
a friend of mine who is an apple ACT said that the G3 iMacs are going to be dropped, probably the flat screen iMacs, and that every product is going to be redesigned. The eMac probably wil stay the same, but might be given a new case and/or name. I can't imagine Apple redesigning the new iMac. Maybe everything else, but not the iMac.

madamimadam
Dec 18, 2002, 05:37 PM
Originally posted by pgwalsh
I can't imagine Apple redesigning the new iMac. Maybe everything else, but not the iMac.

I'm with you... they spent so much time on it and it is their greatest love.

scem0
Dec 18, 2002, 05:54 PM
yeah a redesign of the new iMac is not very likely. Maybe updated
LCDs, but I think that would not sell very well. 19" would look
funny... ;) I think a dual 1.3 GHz powermac with Firewire II, USB2,
and Bluetooth would be very nice though. ;) ;) :D

Wano
Dec 19, 2002, 11:02 PM
Originally posted by scem0
yeah a redesign of the new iMac is not very likely. Maybe updated
LCDs, but I think that would not sell very well. 19" would look
funny... ;) I think a dual 1.3 GHz powermac with Firewire II, USB2,
and Bluetooth would be very nice though. ;) ;) :D

who thought a computer with a bubble and a screen attached to it would ever look cool? well, apple sure pulled it off, and if anything they could pull of a 19" screen. I agree that a dual 1.3or higher would be very nice, so that they will finally have the 1ghz or hihger on the cheapest model.

springscansing
Dec 20, 2002, 02:01 AM
Originally posted by krhodus
a friend of mine who is an apple ACT said that the G3 iMacs are going to be dropped, probably the flat screen iMacs, and that every product is going to be redesigned. The eMac probably wil stay the same, but might be given a new case and/or name.

Whhhhaaaaaaatttt?? That's insane.

I just bought a powermac! NOOO!! *STRANGLES*