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trewyn15
May 13, 2013, 09:09 PM
Hey guys new here, I have a PowerBook G4 1.25GHz with 1/4GB RAM and 1GB on the way. I have been trying to upgrade the thing as it is up to leopard. I have Tiger and Leopard both in .dmg files, but Leopard won't fit on a standard DVD so I was looking to install Tiger and then USB boot the laptop from there to get Leopard.

Here's where the problems started.

I am having trouble getting the PowerBook to boot from the Disc Drive. I know the drive is working just fine because it's showing the disc on the desktop, so I go into the disc and click 'Install Mac OS X', when I do this it tells me to Restart.

When I restart the computer just comes back to the Panther desktop, it doesn't go through any installs or anything.

I have also started the computer holding C to boot from the CD drive and nothing still. I also started holding Option, I can hear and feel the disc drive spinning but it doesn't show in the active drives, only the 'Macintosh HD' shows.

I'm a little stumped here, any help would be great as to how I can get Tiger to properly install.

Thanks in advance!



MisterKeeks
May 13, 2013, 09:20 PM
Set the Disk as Startup Disk in System Preferences maybe.

trewyn15
May 13, 2013, 09:25 PM
Thanks for the quick response, I'm fairly new to Macs, always been an HP guy :D

I'm trying that right now!

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Alright, just tried that. It came to the gray screen and had the folder with the question mark and mac 'face' flashing.

Not sure if I have a faulty copy on my disc or what. It looks to be reading the file correctly when I select the Mac OS X Install DVD and it shows the files.

jbarley
May 13, 2013, 09:38 PM
Seeing as OS X was never distributed as a 'dmg' file by Apple...
Try to get get a legal-retail copy of either Os X Tiger or Leopard and you'll find the install will more then likely go smoothly.

eyoungren
May 13, 2013, 10:05 PM
Just some things to note…Leopard disks are dual layer. You didn't mention that your Mac was the DL version so I assume not. If your Mac is a 12" (you didn't mention) you are out of luck as there was no DLSD 12" PowerBooks.

Next, PowerBooks/PowerMacs won't boot from USB (with some exceptions) and most not from a USB stick. There are ways around that (Open Firmware) but it's a several step process.

Lastly, assuming you were able to boot there's no way you could get Leopard to install with only 256MB of ram. Leopard needs 512MB minimum. Leopard Assist might help with that, but I think it only cloaks the processor and not the amount of ram.

trewyn15
May 13, 2013, 10:14 PM
Just some things to note…Leopard disks are dual layer. You didn't mention that your Mac was the DL version so I assume not. If your Mac is a 12" (you didn't mention) you are out of luck as there was no DLSD 12" PowerBooks.

Next, PowerBooks/PowerMacs won't boot from USB (with some exceptions) and most not from a USB stick. There are ways around that (Open Firmware) but it's a several step process.

Lastly, assuming you were able to boot there's no way you could get Leopard to install with only 256MB of ram. Leopard needs 512MB minimum. Leopard Assist might help with that, but I think it only cloaks the processor and not the amount of ram.

Mine is a 15", but it's earlier so it doesn't have dual layer unfortunately :/

I thought they would boot after 10.4.6 or somewhere around there?

If not it's fine, I'll just use discs, not a big deal there.

I mis-typed the RAM lol, I'ts got 512MB, soon to have 1.5GB. I would also like to bump up to 2GB in the future just to keep it somewhat quick.

I am also looking to throw in a 60GB SSD or somewhere in that area depending on the deals I can find.

I think I have a faulty copy of Lion and I need to get my Leopard to work, maybe I'll just wait until I get my SSD and start from scratch?

eyoungren
May 13, 2013, 10:37 PM
I thought they would boot after 10.4.6 or somewhere around there?
Yeah, Intell has mentioned that before too. But it's wierd. I have a USB external at work that my 1Ghz 17" PowerBook sees and is able to boot from, but not my 1.67Ghz 17" DLSD!

I think I have a faulty copy of Lion and I need to get my Leopard to work, maybe I'll just wait until I get my SSD and start from scratch?
Lion, even if you had a perfectly good disk will never install on a PowerBook. Leopard is as high as you can go. Apple transitioned to Intel chips in 2006. OSX 10.6 and higher is Intel only. The PowerPC Macs have PowerPC chips so that excludes them.

Also, be aware that the PowerBooks are IDE (PATA) only. So, you'll either need an adapter for your SSD or you'll need to get a PATA SSD. Those are usually hard to find and expensive. Keep in mind that an adapter takes up space and so you may need to find a small enough SSD to fit everything in if you go the adapter route. The space inside the PowerBooks is pretty small (especially on the 12") and the 17" PBs still don't have a lot of space either.

You said you were new to Macs, so this is why I mention all that.

trewyn15
May 13, 2013, 10:43 PM
Yeah, Intell has mentioned that before too. But it's wierd. I have a USB external at work that my 1Ghz 17" PowerBook sees and is able to boot from, but not my 1.67Ghz 17" DLSD!


Lion, even if you had a perfectly good disk will never install on a PowerBook. Leopard is as high as you can go. Apple transitioned to Intel chips in 2006. OSX 10.6 and higher is Intel only. The PowerPC Macs have PowerPC chips so that excludes them.

You said you were new to Macs, so this is why I mention that.

That's really weird... wonder why that is lol I'm honestly just hoping that I don't have a board issue, I don't think I do but that could be worst case scenario.

I apologize, I didn't mean Lion :p I keep getting Tiger and Lion confused lol

I was going to try and use my girlfriends MacBook Pro disc since it came with Leopard, but gray discs only work on the specific computer they came with generally, or chipset and such.

I am fairly new to macs and the OS image, I've used them a bunch before but not to a large extent like I've dealt with Win XP and Win7.

eyoungren
May 13, 2013, 10:54 PM
That's really weird... wonder why that is lol I'm honestly just hoping that I don't have a board issue, I don't think I do but that could be worst case scenario.

I apologize, I didn't mean Lion :p I keep getting Tiger and Lion confused lol

I was going to try and use my girlfriends MacBook Pro disc since it came with Leopard, but gray discs only work on the specific computer they came with generally, or chipset and such.

I am fairly new to macs and the OS image, I've used them a bunch before but not to a large extent like I've dealt with Win XP and Win7.
Yeah, you need a retail copy (it's Universal, PowerPC/Intel). If your girlfriend's MBP has a DLSD it'll burn dual layer disks. You might also be able to use the MBP's DVD drive in Target Disk Mode to the PowerBook. You'll need a Firewire 400 cable.

trewyn15
May 13, 2013, 10:56 PM
Yeah, you need a retail copy (it's Universal, PowerPC/Intel). If your girlfriend's MBP has a DLSD it'll burn dual layer disks. You might also be able to use the MBP's DVD drive in Target Disk Mode to the PowerBook. You'll need a Firewire 400 cable.

I have a dual layer burner, I'll just have to see if I can get that to work. Otherwise my buddy has a retail copy that I'll buy off him

trewyn15
May 14, 2013, 02:23 PM
Hopefully I'll get a quick response here, I have my DVD-RDL (Dual layer discs), they are Memorex and 8.5GB like most other dual layers.

I am using TransMac and a Sony DRU-820A (appears to be dual layer) to burn a 3.70 GB .dmg file. Every time I go to burn the file to the disc it's telling me that the file is too large.

Does anyone know what may be going on here?

I originally thought that I may not have the right sony drivers, but it reads the disc fine and shows it as 8.xxGB available, it spins up fine also.

Is there maybe a better burner that I could use that wouldn't give me this problem?

eyoungren
May 14, 2013, 02:42 PM
Use Disk Utility on your girlfriends MBP to burn a DL disk.

trewyn15
May 14, 2013, 02:49 PM
I don't think she has a dual layer burner on there since it's an 09, I thought they phased those out?

Also, does TransMax have trouble with Dual Layer discs? thought I read that somewhere

eyoungren
May 14, 2013, 02:59 PM
Sorry, assumed from above that she had one. Look at her Mac in System Profiler.

For the DVD drive you want to see this: DVD±R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW

It the DL part in DVD±R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW that indicates Dual Layer. If the specs say that, her drive is a DL Super Drive.

I have no idea about abandoning DL drives. Every 2009 MBP I looked up in Mactracker had that as standard.

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I don't think she has a dual layer burner on there since it's an 09, I thought they phased those out?

Also, does TransMax have trouble with Dual Layer discs? thought I read that somewhere
Sorry, no idea what TransMax is so I'm not familiar with it.

trewyn15
May 14, 2013, 03:04 PM
I'll have to look into it! I appreciate the input!

Do you know of any ways of burning through Windows 7 with Nero or anything?

eyoungren
May 14, 2013, 03:13 PM
No, not really. It's my understanding that to burn a DMG it needs to be open. I suppose if you have MacDrive that may be possible, but it's not something I've ever done. I only have one machine that has a DLSD and that's my 17" PowerBook. Not even my new G5 (got it from my boss last week when the logicboard burned out) has a DLSD.

trewyn15
May 14, 2013, 03:20 PM
Hmm okay, this is why I avoid Macs :p lol jk

I'll have to try out the MBP then, I would assume that a DL drive would be almost standard by now, but who really knows with Apple sometimes lol

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Also it looks like SuperDrive is standard starting in 2007, so hopefully i'm good there lol

eyoungren
May 14, 2013, 03:34 PM
Hmm okay, this is why I avoid Macs :p lol jk

I'll have to try out the MBP then, I would assume that a DL drive would be almost standard by now, but who really knows with Apple sometimes lol

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Also it looks like SuperDrive is standard starting in 2007, so hopefully i'm good there lol
I should clarify. When you burn the disk image, Disk Utility opens the DMG, but unmounts the disk (so it does not show on the desktop). That's my understanding anyway. I'm not an expert and it's been a long time since I burned a DMG to a DL disk.

P.S. Burning disks is one of the reasons I avoid PCs. :)

Toast Titanium on Mac makes it easy.

trewyn15
May 14, 2013, 03:38 PM
I should clarify. When you burn the disk image, Disk Utility opens the DMG, but unmounts the disk (so it does not show on the desktop). That's my understanding anyway. I'm not an expert and it's been a long time since I burned a DMG to a DL disk.

P.S. Burning disks is one of the reasons I avoid PCs. :)

Toast Titanium on Mac makes it easy.

I'll have to play with it, just don't want to waste the $11 I spent on DL discs lol

Why's that? Nero Burning ROM seems to be pretty similar to Toast Titanium?

eyoungren
May 14, 2013, 03:50 PM
I'll have to play with it, just don't want to waste the $11 I spent on DL discs lol

Why's that? Nero Burning ROM seems to be pretty similar to Toast Titanium?
Totally get that. I've wasted two in a row once and it about drove me insane.

As to Nero, I'm coming from the old Win95 days. That's the last serious version of Windows I ever really used. I'm competent up to Windows 8 because I support PCs where I work (I have two PCs at home with Win7) but I converted to Mac in 2002 so anything I do is usually done on them. The one copy of Nero I have is very old and was impossible for me to figure out back in the late 90s. I've used the PC version of Toast (Easy CD Creator I think?), but that's a 2001-2002 version and I didn't have much luck with it.

It's probably down to old equipment (my newest machine is 2006 vintage) and old software but…well…it just works on the Mac, even the old stuff. I have the latest versions I can for PowerPC though so that probably helps.

trewyn15
May 14, 2013, 04:12 PM
Totally get that. I've wasted two in a row once and it about drove me insane.

As to Nero, I'm coming from the old Win95 days. That's the last serious version of Windows I ever really used. I'm competent up to Windows 8 because I support PCs where I work (I have two PCs at home with Win7) but I converted to Mac in 2002 so anything I do is usually done on them. The one copy of Nero I have is very old and was impossible for me to figure out back in the late 90s. I've used the PC version of Toast (Easy CD Creator I think?), but that's a 2001-2002 version and I didn't have much luck with it.

It's probably down to old equipment (my newest machine is 2006 vintage) and old software but…well…it just works on the Mac, even the old stuff. I have the latest versions I can for PowerPC though so that probably helps.

Gotcha, I started on Windows 98 and have been in Windows ever since. I got this PowerBook because I wanted to learn more about OS X and the general layout and commands. I think getting leopard on this computer is a perfect way to do that, as there hasn't been a ton that has changed to this date.

How do you find it works using an older computer for today's tasks?

I mean worst come to worst I could dual boot Ubuntu or something, but that's not exactly what I'd like to do right now lol

One more thing, any suggestions on a HDD for this thing? It's been making noises, which I think is just it's age since it's 10 years old. I'd like to up the space on this thing and just have something in it that's newer, all while not trying to put too much money into it lol

eyoungren
May 14, 2013, 04:37 PM
Ohh, let's break this down…
Gotcha, I started on Windows 98 and have been in Windows ever since. I got this PowerBook because I wanted to learn more about OS X and the general layout and commands. I think getting leopard on this computer is a perfect way to do that, as there hasn't been a ton that has changed to this date.
True. 10.6.x is often considered to be the last good version of OSX (even though it's Intel). 10.7 and 10.8 are way more iOS like.

How do you find it works using an older computer for today's tasks?
Because of Apple's forward thinking I'm just fine. We have two circa 2000 PowerMac G4s here where I work. One G4/450 and one G4/350. The G4/450 has firewire ports and USB ports and a 10/100 Ethernet connection. Those ports have kept this Mac viable for the last 13 years. It's on 24/7 and it runs the CS4 Suite, Acrobat Pro 9, Suitcase Fusion 2 and QuarkXPress 8.5. It's on Leopard 10.5.8 with 1GB of ram. A little slow, but it does the job everyday. How many 13 year old PCs do you know that are still producing (if they are even working).

The broken G5 I mentioned also has the same. The other G4 we use as an Applescript server and a Font server.

My 1.67Ghz 17" PowerBook G4, which I am typing this on right now also has the same load out. Right now, it's covering the gap of production work for two weekly newspapers and two monthly newspapers. And because of Apple I was simply able to plug it in, make some adjustments and it was on the network doing the same things as my old G5. It will continue to do so until we can get our brand new Intel Mac (which has yet to arrive) online. Note too, that for the first year and a half in this job my old Titanium PowerBook G4/400 did the same thing until we got the G5.

I can do 98% of what I do right now on the PowerPC Mac. I have a modern browser (AuroraFox/TenFourFox 21) which is the equivalent of Firefox 21 and allows me plugins and extensions. Maybe things are sometimes a bit slower, but the PowerPC Mac is NOT dead.

I mean worst come to worst I could dual boot Ubuntu or something, but that's not exactly what I'd like to do right now lol
Don't. By all accounts it's just not up to par yet.

One more thing, any suggestions on a HDD for this thing? It's been making noises, which I think is just it's age since it's 10 years old. I'd like to up the space on this thing and just have something in it that's newer, all while not trying to put too much money into it lol
Western Digital Scorpio Blue laptop drive. The largest they make in PATA is 320GB. The drive is slower than the stock drives but the cache compensates and you will notice a big increase in speed.

Note that nobody makes PATA laptop drives anymore (right Intell?) so any of these you find will be from old stock. But my WD 320 and my wife's 250 have been solid.

trewyn15
May 14, 2013, 04:46 PM
Ohh, let's break this down…

True. 10.6.x is often considered to be the last good version of OSX (even though it's Intel). 10.7 and 10.8 are way more iOS like.


Because of Apple's forward thinking I'm just fine. We have two circa 2000 PowerMac G4s here where I work. One G4/450 and one G4/350. The G4/450 has firewire ports and USB ports and a 10/100 Ethernet connection. Those ports have kept this Mac viable for the last 13 years. It's on 24/7 and it runs the CS4 Suite, Acrobat Pro 9, Suitcase Fusion 2 and QuarkXPress 8.5. It's on Leopard 10.5.8 with 1GB of ram. A little slow, but it does the job everyday. How many 13 year old PCs do you know that are still producing (if they are even working).

The broken G5 I mentioned also has the same. The other G4 we use as an Applescript server and a Font server.

My 1.67Ghz 17" PowerBook G4, which I am typing this on right now also has the same load out. Right now, it's covering the gap of production work for two weekly newspapers and two monthly newspapers. And because of Apple I was simply able to plug it in, make some adjustments and it was on the network doing the same things as my old G5. It will continue to do so until we can get our brand new Intel Mac (which has yet to arrive) online. Note too, that for the first year and a half in this job my old Titanium PowerBook G4/400 did the same thing until we got the G5.

I can do 98% of what I do right now on the PowerPC Mac. I have a modern browser (AuroraFox/TenFourFox 21) which is the equivalent of Firefox 21 and allows me plugins and extensions. Maybe things are sometimes a bit slower, but the PowerPC Mac is NOT dead.


Don't. By all accounts it's just not up to par yet.


Western Digital Scorpio Blue laptop drive. The largest they make in PATA is 320GB. The drive is slower than the stock drives but the cache compensates and you will notice a big increase in speed.

Note that nobody makes PATA laptop drives anymore (right Intell?) so any of these you find will be from old stock. But my WD 320 and my wife's 250 have been solid.

Excellent, I appreciate all the input! My girlfriend was actually running Leopard until last year on her MBP and now she's only on Snow Leopard. Both of which she had no issues whatsoever.

For what I've used this thing so far (1.25GHz and 1/2 gig of RAM), only word, powerpoint and Safari so far.. It has done very well, it obviously can't open some more modern sites because of HTML and such, but for what it can do, it is doing great. I have the 1GB stick planned to be here tomorrow or Thursday so that should boost it a bit.

I guess the last question I have right now is if these drives are capable of reading Dual Layer disks even if they are unable to write to them. Someone brought this to my attention and I always just thought they could read them fine even if they couldn't write to them.

Oh and can you do the two-finger scroll on your Powerbooks after the update to Leopard?

eyoungren
May 14, 2013, 05:08 PM
Excellent, I appreciate all the input! My girlfriend was actually running Leopard until last year on her MBP and now she's only on Snow Leopard. Both of which she had no issues whatsoever.

For what I've used this thing so far (1.25GHz and 1/2 gig of RAM), only word, powerpoint and Safari so far.. It has done very well, it obviously can't open some more modern sites because of HTML and such, but for what it can do, it is doing great. I have the 1GB stick planned to be here tomorrow or Thursday so that should boost it a bit.

I guess the last question I have right now is if these drives are capable of reading Dual Layer disks even if they are unable to write to them. Someone brought this to my attention and I always just thought they could read them fine even if they couldn't write to them.

Oh and can you do the two-finger scroll on your Powerbooks after the update to Leopard?
AF/T4Fx handles web pages well. HTML5 compatibility.

As to the DL reading, all I can say is that I've used DL disks on three separate Macs that did not have DL drives and the disk was read each time. 12" PowerBook, 15" TiBook DVI, 17" PowerBook and a G5.

My 17" DLSD has two finger scroll. If you install Leopard and don't have it then look for iScroll2. That will install a driver and system preference to allow you to use two fingers. It will also enable tapping. Macs older than the Aluminum PowerBooks can use Sidetrack.

Here's a shot of my 1.67 17" DLSD working. You can see the G4 on the bottom right. That's the Applescript/Font Server. The other G4 is the next desk over. The PC is an HP by the way. And that empty space with the tissue box is where the G5 was and where the Mac Pro will go when it gets here.

Oh yeah, on the screen on the far right I'm running UltraVNC. I have OSXVNC running on the G4 because it's headless. The other G4 has it's video card so my coworker can run two monitors.

Pic taken with my iPhone 5. :D

trewyn15
May 14, 2013, 06:55 PM
AF/T4Fx handles web pages well. HTML5 compatibility.

As to the DL reading, all I can say is that I've used DL disks on three separate Macs that did not have DL drives and the disk was read each time. 12" PowerBook, 15" TiBook DVI, 17" PowerBook and a G5.

My 17" DLSD has two finger scroll. If you install Leopard and don't have it then look for iScroll2. That will install a driver and system preference to allow you to use two fingers. It will also enable tapping. Macs older than the Aluminum PowerBooks can use Sidetrack.

Here's a shot of my 1.67 17" DLSD working. You can see the G4 on the bottom right. That's the Applescript/Font Server. The other G4 is the next desk over. The PC is an HP by the way. And that empty space with the tissue box is where the G5 was and where the Mac Pro will go when it gets here.

Oh yeah, on the screen on the far right I'm running UltraVNC. I have OSXVNC running on the G4 because it's headless. The other G4 has it's video card so my coworker can run two monitors.

Pic taken with my iPhone 5. :D

I'll definitely be checking those browsers out then once I get Leopard to run, just gotta get home and use the girlfriend MBP.

That's what I thought also, they can read fine, just burning DL is another step up. So that's good to know because that would make things much more difficult lol

I've heard of iScroll2 before, sounds like that'd be a good idea. Too bad that trackpad is so darn small lol it's tiny compared to my EliteBook

That picture right there is an impressive use of older Macs, definite props!