Microsoft: Stop Investigation or We Pull Out

[AtHomeBoy_2000]

I wasnt sure WHERE to post this, but what a bunch of cry babies "you wont let us dominate you, so you dont get ANYTHING!"

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9851244/

MSNBC.com
Microsoft threatens to pull out of South Korea
Antitrust order could force Windows withdrawal, software giant warns
Reuters
Updated: 7:50 p.m. ET Oct. 28, 2005

SEOUL, South Korea - Microsoft Corp. on Thursday said that an investigation by Korea’s antitrust watchdog could lead to the withdrawal of Windows from the country, or to delays in introducing new versions of the operating system there.

Microsoft’s competitive practices have been under investigation by the Korean Fair Trade Commission, which is looking into the company’s inclusion into Windows of streaming media and instant messenger technology. (MSNBC is a Microsoft - NBC joint venture.)

The Redmond, Wash.-based software giant has faced legal and regulatory antitrust actions worldwide because of its decisions to include various services in its operating system.

Earlier this month, Microsoft agreed to settle an antitrust lawsuit with RealNetworks Inc. by paying up to $761 million in cash and services.

The Korean Fair Trade Commission said at the time that the RealNetworks settlement wouldn’t have any effect on its investigation into Microsoft.

Seattle-based RealNetworks was among the companies that had filed complaints against Microsoft in Korea.

In its quarterly report filed Thursday with the Securities and Exchange Commission, Microsoft said the Korean commission could require the company to remove code or redesign Windows uniquely for the Korean market.

If that happened, “it might be necessary to withdraw Windows from the Korean market or delay offering new versions in Korea,” the company said in the filing.

Copyright 2005 Reuters Limited. All rights reserved. Republication or redistribution of Reuters content is expressly prohibited without the prior written consent of Reuters.

© 2005 MSNBC.com

[Sun Baked]

I guess it would look really bad if Apple slipped them some money to continue the investigation. :p

[whocares]

And yet nobody complains that Apple ships Safari, iChat, Quicktime, iTunes, etc with every single copy of OS X :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Granted you can easily not use them with OS X, but both companies are using the same methods...

[Chip NoVaMac]

Granted you can easily not use them with OS X, but both companies are using the same methods...

And that is where M$ problems lie. They have integrated so much into the OS, it is hard to use Win OS without the M$ required "hooks'.

[CanadaRAM]

But wouldn't that be a classic definition of a monopoly, where the market is so dependnat on one product thay one company can threaten the business and government operational structure of an entire country simply by withdrawing their services if they don't like the way the country's laws are enforced?

[generik]

Guess what? The SK govt should just declare Microsoft's copyrights null and void within SK's jurisdiction.

Since you pull out right? Fine. We will just copy legally then!

[aquajet]

And yet nobody complains that Apple ships Safari, iChat, Quicktime, iTunes, etc with every single copy of OS X :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Granted you can easily not use them with OS X, but both companies are using the same methods...

Except that Internet Explorer is much more tightly integrated, to the point where the operating system is dependent upon it. With the exception of QuickTime, it's pretty easy to just trash any of Apple's apps.

Regardless, I think the situations are a bit different. Microsoft controls the world, Apple doesn't. And Apple's products are far superior anyway, so I could care less.:D

[MisterMe]

And yet nobody complains that Apple ships Safari, iChat, Quicktime, iTunes, etc with every single copy of OS X :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Granted you can easily not use them with OS X, but both companies are using the same methods...Well, you're complaining, so that's somebody. As to your point, I know nothing of South Korean law. In the case of US law, the rules are different for illegal monopolies than for other companies. Microsoft has been found to be an illegal monopoly in a Federal court of law. This decision has been affirmed by a Federal Court of Appeals. Microsoft has lost similar decisions around the World. Think of it this way--many states require convicted sex offenders to register with local authorities and to serve notice on their new neighbors when they move into a new residence. People who have have not been convicted can legally go anywhere without telling anybody. Whether it is fair or not is beside the point. It is the law.

[Verto]

Guess what? The SK govt should just declare Microsoft's copyrights null and void within SK's jurisdiction.

Since you pull out right? Fine. We will just copy legally then!

Yeah, that'll go down well.

[generik]

Ultimately I suspect all the SK govt wants (after seeing what happened in the EU etc) is they just want a few million of fine money.

Do they really care if Astala "Vista" ships with a media player? No.. not at all.

[mad jew]

Guess what? The SK govt should just declare Microsoft's copyrights null and void within SK's jurisdiction.

Since you pull out right? Fine. We will just copy legally then!


That's brilliant. A legitimate way of downloading Microsoft products for free would have worldwide repercussions. It'd be much easier for everyone else to pirate Windows relatively safely (albeit illegally). Microsoft would hate it, I love it! Although, it is ultimately immoral, not that Microsoft's behaviour is all that much better. Meh, thank God I use OSX. :D

[EricBrian]

I wasnt sure WHERE to post this, but what a bunch of cry babies "you wont let us dominate you, so you dont get ANYTHING!"

I hope that MS pulls their products from SK. I hope that SK goes with Linux. I hope the lessons that SK learns from running their communities with Linux OS is shared with the rest of the world so that they will shake their MS habit.

I doubt that SK would use MS's software anyhow because in the view of the world community that would not be good.

[iMeowbot]

Except that Internet Explorer is much more tightly integrated, to the point where the operating system is dependent upon it.
That's really becoming true for OS X as well, with stuff like the integrated help and Dashboard linked into WebKit.

[eXan]

Apple's products are far superior anyway, so I could care less.:D

Thats right! :)

[Dane D.]

Just wish S. Korea was a bigger market, than it might mean something but they are small potatoes. If MS is no longer in S. Korea who cares? Now, if say India, China or the EU were to do this then maybe it might make the news. I just can't wait for the day MS is a non-entity in the computer world, like what happened to IBM. They are non-creative in their software( read stole everything ), the software they do produce is maddening in terms of ease of use, the computers that run their the software suck and Bill Gates is the best con artist since Karl Marx. As you can tell, I hate MS and Bill Gates, I laugh everytime a new hole in their OS is discovered, I laugh when hardware doesn't work for MS users, I laugh when the media screams virus.

[PlaceofDis]

its a big company trying to throw its weight around, not surprising

if it gets them anywhere it would be surprised though, they dont seem to have the respect that they once did, and rightfully so.

[MisterMe]

Just wish S. Korea was a bigger market, than it might mean something but they are small potatoes. If MS is no longer in S. Korea who cares? Now, if say India, China or the EU were to do this then maybe it might make the news. I just can't wait for the day MS is a non-entity in the computer world, like what happened to IBM. They are non-creative in their software( read stole everything ), the software they do produce is maddening in terms of ease of use, the computers that run their the software suck and Bill Gates is the best con artist since Karl Marx. As you can tell, I hate MS and Bill Gates, I laugh everytime a new hole in their OS is discovered, I laugh when hardware doesn't work for MS users, I laugh when the media screams virus.South Korea is by no means "small potatoes" for two reasons:

1. Success in business is determined by how effective a company attracts investment. This depends much more on its rate of growth than it does on the its absolute size. If Microsoft loses South Korea, its growth will take a hit. The competition's growth will get a boost. Therefore, investors will be less likely to invest in Microsoft and more likely to invest in the competition.

2. South Korean is a major player in manufacturing. With Microsoft out, the country's business partners must continue to do business. However, they will not be able to use proprietary Microsoft technology. SK business partners will be more likely to adopt non-Microsoft solutions for all of their needs.

Make no mistake, a Microsoft pull-out of South Korea has major implications.

[IJ Reilly]

But wouldn't that be a classic definition of a monopoly, where the market is so dependnat on one product thay one company can threaten the business and government operational structure of an entire country simply by withdrawing their services if they don't like the way the country's laws are enforced?

Yes, or more accurately, "market power." No company without it could even think of making such a threat. BTW, Microsoft has made similar threats before, during the U.S. antitrust investigation a few years back. They declared that if they were forced to produce a version of Windows without integrated IE, that this version would be shipped non-functional. I believe they made similar threats during the EU investigations. Somehow, nobody in the company quite gets the message that these sorts of threats essentially prove a government's antitrust case against them. Microsoft need to create a Department of Irony that can write memos to Bill explaining how this stuff works.

[IJ Reilly]

That's brilliant. A legitimate way of downloading Microsoft products for free would have worldwide repercussions. It'd be much easier for everyone else to pirate Windows relatively safely (albeit illegally). Microsoft would hate it, I love it! Although, it is ultimately immoral, not that Microsoft's behaviour is all that much better. Meh, thank God I use OSX. :D

This is even a better point than perhaps the original poster intended. Corporations like Microsoft like to complain bitterly whenever they are made to conform to the laws of any given nation. But they never complain when that government uses its police powers to protect their property, intellectual or otherwise (this is one among many benefits accrued to corporations by government). They expect the latter but try with all of their mite to avoid the former. IOW, they think the government-corporate relationship should be a one-way street, entirely in their direction.

[dubbz]

its a big company trying to throw its weight around, not surprising

if it gets them anywhere it would be surprised though, they dont seem to have the respect that they once did, and rightfully so.

Agreed.

They're only trying to pressure on South Korea. It's a threat and nothing more. Dropping out out SK whould leave the country wide open for alternatives, and Microsoft doesn't want that.

Edit: This is almost akin to various companies and governments that threaten to drop Windows in favour of (the magical keyword) Linux. Except that this time it's Microsoft doing the threats, and it's not about lower prices, but about getting out of potentional punishment or regulations (ok, this probably whould involve some kind of fees, so it's partly about "price").

I'm sure that, in a few days/weeks, this will be blamed on some new intern or something that "acted without authorization" or whatever.

[Project]

Honestly, I feel that MS has the right to put whatever they want into THEIR software. So long as the platform is open for 3rd parties to develop for it, then I dont see a problem.

[IJ Reilly]

Honestly, I feel that MS has the right to put whatever they want into THEIR software. So long as the platform is open for 3rd parties to develop for it, then I dont see a problem.

But they don't necessarily have that right under the antitrust laws of the U.S. or Europe. Microsoft has fought for it and essentially lost every time.

[cbiffle]

That's really becoming true for OS X as well, with stuff like the integrated help and Dashboard linked into WebKit.

Yeah, not to mention all those apps dependent on the WindowServer! Jeez, Apple.

...

People seem to keep forgetting that MS got into deep doodoo with IE, not because they built it into the OS, but because they did a lot of illegal business dealings to crush Netscape.

Now, Apple sells their own machines, so I can't do a direct analogy, but: if Apple made deals with third-party developers to quit using MegaOtherBrowser in their code, and only use WebKit if they wanted to have their software ever bundled with OS X or listed on apple.com, then we could talk.

WebKit in particular doesn't bother me because it's an open source product (based on code I helped develop), but QuickTime doesn't bother me either.

[XNine]

But they don't necessarily have that right under the antitrust laws of the U.S. or Europe. Microsoft has fought for it and essentially lost every time.

Exactly. And there's no way to stop Exploerer or Windows MEdia Player from being present on the system. That's the difference between Apple and MS. Safari, Quicktime, both can be deleted from your system without any repercussions or destroying important resources of the operating system.

MS has built it's OS around not only DOS (yes, its still present, even in Vista), but on Internet Explorer. Applications, such as Internet Exploiter, should not be the communication center of the OS, but rather jsut another app on top of it allowing such things.

MS is in a world of hurt, everyone can sense it. Vista is doomed to be a failure. Hell, you can't even get custom skins in the Mac cersion of their media player.

South Korea should ban Microsoft from even selling in the region.

Down with Bill and his monopolistic craptacular OS!

[jpgodlew]

They would never pull out. It doesn't matter how much control over the personal computer market they have...it just wouldn't be an ethical thing to do. Heck...millions in lost revenue and bad press would be the least of their worries. If worse comes to worse what generik said might actually happen if the SC government gets too pissed off.

[greatdevourer]

Has anyone noticed how, by doing this, M$ have just confirmed what the investigation was set out to check out?

[Counterfit]

Exactly. And there's no way to stop Exploerer or Windows MEdia Player from being present on the system. That's the difference between Apple and MS. Safari, Quicktime, both can be deleted from your system without any repercussions or destroying important resources of the operating system.
Well, there are two parts to QuickTime. The player, and the framework. The player can be deleted with few repercussions. Of course, you should have something to take its place, such as VLC or the like. The framework, however, shouldn't be deleted, as it can cause problems in many apps (Finder, iTunes, and anything else that uses the framework).

[LethalWolfe]

And yet nobody complains that Apple ships Safari, iChat, Quicktime, iTunes, etc with every single copy of OS X :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Granted you can easily not use them with OS X, but both companies are using the same methods...

I think the problem w/MS wasn't the fact that they included things like WMP and IE, but that they used their massive position in the industry to basically dictate to computer makers what software their machines could and could not ship with. Thereby leveraging an unfair advantage for their products by forcing companies to only ship w/"MS approved" software. An Apple parallel might be if Apple contacted major retailers and said anyone who stocks MP3 players that play WMA files might experience a "shortage" of iPods during the Xmas shopping season.

In regards to iPods/iTMS Apple isn't letting anyone ride on their coattails, but they also aren't using their market position to hamper other companies attempts to build competing products either.


Lethal

[IJ Reilly]

I think the problem w/MS wasn't the fact that they included things like WMP and IE, but that they used their massive position in the industry to basically dictate to computer makers what software their machines could and could not ship with. Thereby leveraging an unfair advantage for their products by forcing companies to only ship w/"MS approved" software. An Apple parallel might be if Apple contacted major retailers and said anyone who stocks MP3 players that play WMA files might experience a "shortage" of iPods during the Xmas shopping season.

In regards to iPods/iTMS Apple isn't letting anyone ride on their coattails, but they also aren't using their market position to hamper other companies attempts to build competing products either.


Lethal

Yes, exactly. It's not illegal to have a monopoly, but it is illegal (under the laws of most countries) to use that monopoly to stifle competition.