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MacRumors
May 15, 2013, 05:25 PM
http://images.macrumors.com/im/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2013/05/15/os-x-10-8-4-build-12d52-seeded-to-developers/)


As noted (http://9to5mac.com/2013/05/15/apple-seeds-os-x-10-8-4-beta-build-12d52-to-developers/) by 9to5Mac, Apple today seeded build 12E52 of OS X 10.8.4 to developers. The release comes seven days after the previous build 12E47 (http://www.macrumors.com/2013/05/08/os-x-10-8-4-build-12e47-seeded-to-developers/) and marks the seventh beta iteration of OS X 10.8.4.

http://images.macrumors.com/article-new/2013/05/12e52.png
As with previous beta releases, Apple continues to ask developers to focus on Wi-Fi, Graphics Drivers, and Safari.

The update is available through the software update tool in the Mac App Store and*Apple's Developer Page (https://developer.apple.com/).

Article Link: OS X 10.8.4 Build 12E52 Seeded to Developers (http://www.macrumors.com/2013/05/15/os-x-10-8-4-build-12d52-seeded-to-developers/)



Sound214
May 15, 2013, 05:31 PM
It's 12E52, not 12D52.

jclo
May 15, 2013, 05:33 PM
It's 12E52, not 12D52.

I fixed it.

Sound214
May 15, 2013, 05:34 PM
I fixed it.

Great! I just want my favorite Mac site to be correct.

rabidz7
May 15, 2013, 05:43 PM
Titan drivers!

BobbyLight
May 15, 2013, 05:45 PM
Does this mean 802.11ac?

Sound214
May 15, 2013, 05:49 PM
Does this mean 802.11ac?

Didn't they include 802.11ac support in the very first 10.8.4 beta?

jclo
May 15, 2013, 06:00 PM
Great! I just want my favorite Mac site to be correct.

Thank you :) Sorry about that, I had typed it right uploading the image so just a small lapse of brain function I think!

bedifferent
May 15, 2013, 06:06 PM
Hey, that's the image I posted in the forums around 5:50!

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1582840

Someone stolen my thread. lol :p

53kyle
May 15, 2013, 06:27 PM
So far does 10.8.4 fix the slow shutdown times?

Mr. Retrofire
May 15, 2013, 06:38 PM
So far does 10.8.4 fix the slow shutdown times?
Do you use your Mac for real work, or just for startup/shutdown benchmarks?

teknishn
May 15, 2013, 06:49 PM
I can't remember the last time I shut down my Mac. Lol

ZacNicholson
May 15, 2013, 06:50 PM
Do you use your Mac for real work, or just for startup/shutdown benchmarks?

i agree man. everyone bitching about startup and shutdown times is crazy. like how many times a day do you turn off your mac??:confused:

tywebb13
May 15, 2013, 06:52 PM
The installer now has notes:

The 10.8.4 update is recommended for all OS X Mountain Lion users and has features and fixes that improve the stability, compatibility, and security of your Mac, including the following:
Compatibility improvements when connecting to certain enterprise Wi-Fi networks
Microsoft Exchange compatibility improvements in Calendar
A fix for an issue that prevented FaceTime calls to non-U.S. phone numbers
A fix for an issue that may prevent scheduled sleep after using Boot Camp
Improved VoiceOver compatibility with text in PDF documents
Includes Safari 6.0.5

bedifferent
May 15, 2013, 06:58 PM
The installer now has notes:

The 10.8.4 update is recommended for all OS X Mountain Lion users and has features and fixes that improve the stability, compatibility, and security of your Mac, including the following:
Compatibility improvements when connecting to certain enterprise Wi-Fi networks
Microsoft Exchange compatibility improvements in Calendar
A fix for an issue that prevented FaceTime calls to non-U.S. phone numbers
A fix for an issue that may prevent scheduled sleep after using Boot Camp
Improved VoiceOver compatibility with text in PDF documents
Includes Safari 6.0.5

I immediately noticed improvements in Wi-Fi with my current gen Airport Extreme Base Station. My current gen Mac Pro had some difficulties with the 5GHz network, transmit rates weren't as good as my MacBook Air running 10.8.4 in the same area of my home. Now it's getting 300, consistently. My local Wi-Fi has improved considerably.

ZacNicholson
May 15, 2013, 06:59 PM
Includes Safari 6.0.5

safari 6.0.5 was in the last build with build number 8536.30.1. did it change?

gwang73
May 15, 2013, 07:09 PM
safari 6.0.5 was in the last build with build number 8536.30.1. did it change?

Nope, same build number in 12E52 so it's not snappier!

Peace
May 15, 2013, 07:19 PM
I immediately noticed improvements in Wi-Fi with my current gen Airport Extreme Base Station. My current gen Mac Pro had some difficulties with the 5GHz network, transmit rates weren't as good as my MacBook Air running 10.8.4 in the same area of my home. Now it's getting 300, consistently. My local Wi-Fi has improved considerably.

What's the "DFS" ( 5Ghz) mean ?

The DFS part. Not the 5Ghz part.

ScottishCaptain
May 15, 2013, 07:22 PM
What's the "DFS" ( 5Ghz) mean ?

The DFS part. Not the 5Ghz part.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_Frequency_Selection

Also known as "Automatic" in the Airport Utility. It just changes the WLAN channels as required to reduce congestion in the air waves.

-SC

Parasprite
May 15, 2013, 07:40 PM
Do you use your Mac for real work, or just for startup/shutdown benchmarks?

The shutdown times for me are less about it being a problem and more about it being confusingly not fixed yet. I've had the exact same problem since Lion on my other machine (1st gen MacBook Air), but I doubt I would have noticed if I wasn't actively trying to see how much I could delete without breaking Lion and running it in verbose mode all the time (for fun of course).

Fortunately I finally have a real machine, and now I can entertain myself beyond browsing the internet and listening to the fans go off.

dastinger
May 15, 2013, 07:52 PM
FFS, let's not start a shut down vs sleep argument again. You never ever in your life shut down your Mac? Good for you! That doesn't mean shutdown times should be that long. Period!

Krazy Bill
May 15, 2013, 08:42 PM
The shutdown times for me are less about it being a problem and more about it being confusingly not fixed yet.

Yes. I'm more concerned about who is steering the OSX coding boat right now than I am about the bug itself. It's quite telling on many counts. :eek:

Humex
May 15, 2013, 11:03 PM
CUDA Driver 5.0.59 is compatible with OS X 10.8.4 : http://www.nvidia.com/object/macosx-cuda-5.0.59-driver.html

New NVIDIA Quadro & Geforce MAC OS X 10.8.3 display driver v313.01.01 now available : http://www.nvidia.com/object/macosx-313.01.01f03-driver.html

thomaskc
May 15, 2013, 11:08 PM
CUDA Driver 5.0.59 is compatible with OS X 10.8.4 : http://www.nvidia.com/object/macosx-cuda-5.0.59-driver.html

New NVIDIA Quadro & Geforce MAC OS X 10.8.3 display driver v313.01.01 now available : http://www.nvidia.com/object/macosx-313.01.01f03-driver.html

Excellent! nice find! finally an actual Nvidia driver update that isn't just some tiny incremental project number update. will def be installing these tonight.

OtherJesus
May 15, 2013, 11:31 PM
So far does 10.8.4 fix the slow shutdown times?
My Mac shuts down in seconds. I don't know what programs you guys run, but I go heavy Final Cut Pro and Logic and my iMac 2011 running the latest software with a SSD has almost instant shutdown.

loptimistk
May 15, 2013, 11:40 PM
Well, I care about the shutdown time because I often reboot to Boot Camp because OSX is still lacking in some aspects. :cool:

Come on, not everyone uses Macs the same way as you do. :mad:

And, even if it may not bother you, this is still more of a bug.
Regardless of the purpose which may have been to prevent iCloud sync issues or what not.

Peace
May 16, 2013, 12:09 AM
My Mac shuts down in 17d14hr32s.

And I don't care.

:)

53kyle
May 16, 2013, 12:36 AM
My Mac shuts down in seconds. I don't know what programs you guys run, but I go heavy Final Cut Pro and Logic and my iMac 2011 running the latest software with a SSD has almost instant shutdown.

Good enough for me, it takes longer than it takes to boot to shut down on my fresh new mbp 2012 and I do a lot of rebooting into bootcamp and back to play games then do work, in case any of the people who said that shutdown time doesn't matter were wondering, and it will matter to some people.

katewes
May 16, 2013, 03:23 AM
Those people who don't care about shutdown times, and leave their Macs in a sleep mode all day, probably don't take the Macs out of their houses. They also aren't aware that even if the Mac is encrypted with FileVault2, if a thief gets hold of the Mac in sleep mode, it is not as secure as if it were stolen when totally shut down.

Given this fact, those people who rather pompously brushed aside those who value fast-shutdown times, need to reconsider their stance.

Fast shutdown times encourage me to shut down when I'm not using it since it takes minimal time to start up and shutdown.

But when that process takes more time, the lazy approach is to just leave it in sleep mode, which leaves your Mac more vulnerable to data theft it is stolen while in sleep mode.

To those who lazily just put their Macs to sleep -- and, in their ignorance, BRAG about it -- educate yourself and do this google search:

mac vulnerable sleep shutdown filevault 2

And whilst Apple are at it fixing ML 10.8.4, they might address this security issue that sleeping Macs have.

thomaskc
May 16, 2013, 03:35 AM
Has anyone actually managed to install those new nvidia drivers? I get an error saying that the image was not recognised.

Just realised that those drivers are for mac pro only, so NOT for laptops :/ lame as *******

Moshe1010
May 16, 2013, 03:45 AM
Hey, that's the image I posted in the forums around 5:50!

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1582840

Someone stolen my thread. lol :p
Hey, we also know how to take print screens since 1993!

TheTissot11
May 16, 2013, 03:51 AM
So six more betas to go before we see it being released..Can anyone shed some light on whether 10.8.4 has new Intel drivers released last month?Does 10.8.4 count HD 4000 as a OpenCL capable device?

JGRE
May 16, 2013, 04:05 AM
i agree man. everyone bitching about startup and shutdown times is crazy. like how many times a day do you turn off your mac??:confused:

Each time I get on a plane..........you should try it , it fun :D

----------

My Mac shuts down in 17d14hr32s.

And I don't care.

:)

Good for you.

AnonMac50
May 16, 2013, 06:18 AM
I remember the time when the computer shut down the INSTANT I clicked shutdown :D:D

Mr. Retrofire
May 16, 2013, 06:36 AM
Those people who don't care about shutdown times, and leave their Macs in a sleep mode all day, probably don't take the Macs out of their houses. They also aren't aware that even if the Mac is encrypted with FileVault2, if a thief gets hold of the Mac in sleep mode, it is not as secure as if it were stolen when totally shut down.
Apple fixed this bug last year in 10.7.2 and newer:
From:
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT5002

...

Kernel

Available for: OS X Lion v10.7 and v10.7.1, OS X Lion Server v10.7 and v10.7.1

Impact: A person with physical access may be able to access the user's password

Description: A logic error in the kernel's DMA protection permitted firewire DMA at loginwindow, boot, and shutdown, although not at screen lock. This update addresses the issue by preventing firewire DMA at all states where the user is not logged in.

CVE-ID

CVE-2011-3215 : Passware, Inc.

...



Given this fact, those people who rather pompously brushed aside those who value fast-shutdown times, need to reconsider their stance.
...
To those who lazily just put their Macs to sleep -- and, in their ignorance, BRAG about it -- educate yourself and do this google search:

mac vulnerable sleep shutdown filevault 2
Apple fixed the bug in a security update (see above). No problem. Has nothing to do with ignorance.

JCsHands2
May 16, 2013, 07:25 AM
Has anyone actually managed to install those new nvidia drivers? I get an error saying that the image was not recognised.

Just realised that those drivers are for mac pro only, so NOT for laptops :/ lame as *******

You can still install them using Pacifist. I am reading mixed reviews about getting the new Preference pane working, but the drivers themselves are easy to install.

thomaskc
May 16, 2013, 07:54 AM
You can still install them using Pacifist. I am reading mixed reviews about getting the new Preference pane working, but the drivers themselves are easy to install.

Err so you are saying that if you open up the .dmg and force install the drivers themselves there is no GPU ID check as when installing them "the right way" ?

Hmm looking at the content I might need a quick guide to how OSX handles files like this :P 30 years of Windows platform helps very little right now.

EDIT: uh i might have it, right click in pacifier and install content.. let me reboot and see what happens.

epelba01
May 16, 2013, 08:06 AM
Does it fix itunes wifi sync with ios devices?

thomaskc
May 16, 2013, 08:15 AM
So I got the nvidia package "installed" meaning I can see the control panel under system settings, it gives me an error when opening (as expected) but unfortunately the driver version when checking is also not updated :/

Not sure how to go about this then? any ideas? thanks

chrfr
May 16, 2013, 08:23 AM
So I got the nvidia package "installed" meaning I can see the control panel under system settings, it gives me an error when opening (as expected) but unfortunately the driver version when checking is also not updated :/

Not sure how to go about this then? any ideas? thanks
How is this related to the 10.8.4 seed?

thomaskc
May 16, 2013, 08:30 AM
How is this related to the 10.8.4 seed?

It is because these new nvidia drivers for the Mac Pro's are newer than the build in the 10.8.4 seed, and since people always talk about the incremental driver version bumps in every seed... well it might not be for you, but I bet that if it was easy to install the newer nvidia on top of the new seed, a lot would.

milo
May 16, 2013, 09:09 AM
Has anyone actually managed to install those new nvidia drivers? I get an error saying that the image was not recognised.

Nvidia screwed up the download, just change the .dmg at the end to .pkg.

But has anyone installed the drivers WebDriver-313.01.01f03 with 10.8.4? The installer refuses to install on 10.8.4 and I'd like to hear from someone who has it working before installing and potentially borking my system.

chrfr
May 16, 2013, 09:18 AM
It is because these new nvidia drivers for the Mac Pro's are newer than the build in the 10.8.4 seed, and since people always talk about the incremental driver version bumps in every seed... well it might not be for you, but I bet that if it was easy to install the newer nvidia on top of the new seed, a lot would.
The trouble with doing this is that pre-release seeds exist for bug testing and by adding different video drivers to the mix, the testing is invalidated.

bedifferent
May 16, 2013, 09:23 AM
Hey, we also know how to take print screens since 1993!

Hey, I was kidding, relax. :)

gmanist1000
May 16, 2013, 09:56 AM
Does this mean 802.11ac?

Hopefully we see 802.11ac routers at WWDC!

milo
May 16, 2013, 10:09 AM
Tried installing WebDriver-313.01.01f03 with pacifist. The new nvidia driver pref pane won't load, gives an error saying to reinstall. I assume it's probably not running the new drivers, is there a way to check that?

Anyone able to run these new drivers on 10.8.4?

Stuipdboy1000
May 16, 2013, 10:11 AM
The installer now has notes:

The 10.8.4 update is recommended for all OS X Mountain Lion users and has features and fixes that improve the stability, compatibility, and security of your Mac, including the following:
Compatibility improvements when connecting to certain enterprise Wi-Fi networks
Microsoft Exchange compatibility improvements in Calendar
A fix for an issue that prevented FaceTime calls to non-U.S. phone numbers
A fix for an issue that may prevent scheduled sleep after using Boot Camp
Improved VoiceOver compatibility with text in PDF documents
Includes Safari 6.0.5

Release notes usually suggest it's close to public availability, no?

chrfr
May 16, 2013, 10:16 AM
Release notes usually suggest it's close to public availability, no?

Generally, although 10.8.3 had such a long test period that it had many revisions with the release notes in it.

Mr. Retrofire
May 16, 2013, 10:24 AM
Hopefully we see 802.11ac routers at WWDC!
Or in Q4/2013. Like this:
http://www.macrumors.com/2007/01/09/apple-quietly-releases-802-11n-capable-airport-extreme/

MacsRgr8
May 16, 2013, 11:21 AM
I remember the time when the computer shut down the INSTANT I clicked shutdown :D:D

I remember a time that a PC didn't need a "shutdown" command... just turn it off! (PC-DOS)

Krazy Bill
May 16, 2013, 12:35 PM
Fast shutdown times encourage me to shut down when I'm not using it since it takes minimal time to start up and shutdown.

But when that process takes more time, the lazy approach is to just leave it in sleep mode, which leaves your Mac more vulnerable to data theft it is stolen while in sleep mode.

To those who lazily just put their Macs to sleep -- and, in their ignorance, BRAG about it -- educate yourself and do this google search:

mac vulnerable sleep shutdown filevault 2
I can only upvote the above comments once but they're worth quoting again for all to see.

Also, I'm on the road a lot and people forget that "sleep" consumes battery power. Throughout the day and between stops, the difference in powering off and rebooting is about 10-15% power savings for me (vs. sleep). And of course, you can't bootcamp into windows without restarting.

Is the bug a show stopper? Certainly not. But people actually excusing and defending it is... well, it's mind-boggling. :eek:

M5RahuL
May 16, 2013, 01:12 PM
So... how many more *betas* to go before we see *pilot*/roll out ?

bedifferent
May 16, 2013, 01:55 PM
Generally, although 10.8.3 had such a long test period that it had many revisions with the release notes in it.

There have been release notes with previous beta's that went beyond ten releases, such as 10.8.3, which started on November 28th last year and ended on March 14th. I have a sense this will continue through WWDC, when 10.9 is most likely announced along with new hardware. There has been some hints to new hardware that aren't available yet in these releases (I believe). :)

Mr. Retrofire
May 16, 2013, 02:18 PM
Is the bug a show stopper? Certainly not. But people actually excusing and defending it is... well, it's mind-boggling. :eek:
No one defends bugs. What i do or what i not do with my Macs, has nothing to do with bug XYZ in OS ZYX. The sleep option is the better option in many cases.

Calm down!

milo
May 16, 2013, 02:29 PM
No one defends bugs.

It sure comes off that way.

treichert
May 16, 2013, 03:27 PM
mac vulnerable sleep shutdown filevault 2


You should google pmset destroyfvkeyonstandby.

Weaselboy
May 16, 2013, 04:05 PM
To those who lazily just put their Macs to sleep -- and, in their ignorance, BRAG about it -- educate yourself and do this google search:

mac vulnerable sleep shutdown filevault 2

Those articles are a bit outdated and no longer relevant. Prior to Lion 10.7.2 one could access the PW by using direct memory access (DMA) through either Firewire or Thunderbolt. However, DMA access was blocked in 10.7.2, so the software mentioned in those articles will not work if you have an updated system.

At this point a hackers only hope is to chill the RAM and quickly swap it into a compatible machine to grab the PW from RAM. I have seen Youtube vids of this on Windows machines, but never a Mac. So I think at this point we would have to call this method "theoretical."

Of course if you have a newer machine like a Macbook Air with the RAM soldered in, this method is also off the table.

AnonMac50
May 16, 2013, 04:47 PM
I remember a time that a PC didn't need a "shutdown" command... just turn it off! (PC-DOS)

I remember that. :D

thomaskc
May 16, 2013, 05:49 PM
Tried installing WebDriver-313.01.01f03 with pacifist. The new nvidia driver pref pane won't load, gives an error saying to reinstall. I assume it's probably not running the new drivers, is there a way to check that?

Anyone able to run these new drivers on 10.8.4?

If you go to system preferences and open the CUDA app, you will see it lists both cuda version and nvidia driver version, and no even installing them using pacifier on 10.8.4 it wont actually use the new drivers.

fpsBeaTt
May 16, 2013, 06:15 PM
Do you use your Mac for real work, or just for startup/shutdown benchmarks?

Yes to the former, no to the latter. I have multiple OS' on my machine that I prefer to boot natively, combined with OS X slowing down on occasion after long periods of uptime. Long shutdown times are an issue for me, especially when one of the main reasons for having an SSD is to minimise downtime (which piles up if you're often waiting 20+ seconds for you system to shutdown/restart). I should return the question; do you use your Mac for real work, or just casually as for time to not factor in as important?

cmChimera
May 16, 2013, 07:14 PM
combined with OS X slowing down on occasion after long periods of uptime. You're a rare case then, as that is not an inherent issue of OS X.

I should return the question; do you use your Mac for real work, or just casually as for time to not factor in as important? I think most would conclude that because shut down is mostly unnecessary, it's just not a huge issue. The only halfway decent reason to be upset I've heard so far is dual booting. However, as I don't expect dual booters to be switching OS's back and forth constantly for no reason, I still find it to be a very minor reason to get up in arms about.

GIZBUG
May 16, 2013, 08:46 PM
More hype than needed with these betas.

Running Mac Air...notice no change with ANY of these betas, and the previous commercial release. Nothing really ground breaking, nothing to blow anyones mind....

fpsBeaTt
May 16, 2013, 09:34 PM
You're a rare case then, as that is not an inherent issue of OS X.

I think most would conclude that because shut down is mostly unnecessary, it's just not a huge issue. The only halfway decent reason to be upset I've heard so far is dual booting. However, as I don't expect dual booters to be switching OS's back and forth constantly for no reason, I still find it to be a very minor reason to get up in arms about.

What you find minor is not minor to others, especially for a premium product designed to give the smoothest and cleanest experience possible. The degree of importance you personally place on it in your specific circumstance is irrelevant; it's an issue for people using a premium product, one that's persisted and is noticeable, and needs to be corrected. End of story.

ItWasNotMe
May 17, 2013, 02:20 AM
I think most would conclude that because shut down is mostly unnecessary, it's just not a huge issue. The only halfway decent reason to be upset I've heard so far is dual booting. However, as I don't expect dual booters to be switching OS's back and forth constantly for no reason, I still find it to be a very minor reason to get up in arms about.

Count me out of that 'most'.

For me it rarely ever completes anyway - I suspect largely because something (Time Machine itself?) has hold of the Time Machine backup disk and it can't be dismounted. (Thats opinion not fact. You don't need facts for an opinion. In fact they tend to hinder formation of a good opinion.)

Several times have left it closing down overnight to find it next morning still showing white screen and pointer cursor.

beestigbeestje
May 17, 2013, 02:22 AM
Wifi still unable to connect after sleep to certain networks.
Always have to reboot after sleep -_-

cal6n
May 17, 2013, 05:40 AM
Yes to the former, no to the latter. I have multiple OS' on my machine that I prefer to boot natively, combined with OS X slowing down on occasion after long periods of uptime. Long shutdown times are an issue for me, especially when one of the main reasons for having an SSD is to minimise downtime (which piles up if you're often waiting 20+ seconds for you system to shutdown/restart). I should return the question; do you use your Mac for real work, or just casually as for time to not factor in as important?

So, you reboot into other operating systems regularly and you have long periods of uptime as well.

Now I'm confused. How does that work?

RedGeminiPA
May 17, 2013, 06:27 AM
Please tell me this is getting better! This is the worst I've ever seen!

thomaskc
May 17, 2013, 06:57 AM
Please tell me this is getting better! This is the worst I've ever seen!

What exactly are you trying to show with that image?

RedGeminiPA
May 17, 2013, 08:21 AM
What exactly are you trying to show with that image?

WebProcess (part of Safari) sucked up over 6GB of RAM with minimal usage!

MacsRgr8
May 17, 2013, 09:08 AM
WebProcess (part of Safari) sucked up over 6GB of RAM with minimal usage!

What is WebProcess?
I can't find that in my Activity Monitor:

Michael Goff
May 17, 2013, 09:23 AM
What is WebProcess?
I can't find that in my Activity Monitor:

Safari Web Content for you.

My process SafariForWebKitDevelopment Web Content is already at ~1.8GB despite being started about twenty minutes ago. This isn't a good sign.

MacsRgr8
May 17, 2013, 09:40 AM
Safari Web Content for you.


Tnx!
Mine is running about 30 mins and it's at c.a. 200 MB of real mem.

Does "Reset Safari" help?

milo
May 17, 2013, 09:41 AM
If you go to system preferences and open the CUDA app, you will see it lists both cuda version and nvidia driver version, and no even installing them using pacifier on 10.8.4 it wont actually use the new drivers.

Thanks. When I installed from Pacifier, it looks like it wasn't using any video drivers at all. I pulled out the new drivers manually, had to reinstall the latest 10.8.4, now at least it's back to the ones that come with the beta.

I'd still like to try the newest from nvidia, although at this point it might be after 10.8.4 goes public and nvidia ships another update.

Michael Goff
May 17, 2013, 10:10 AM
Tnx!
Mine is running about 30 mins and it's at c.a. 200 MB of real mem.

Does "Reset Safari" help?

I did the whole "clear cache" thing and.... already bad up to 1.5GB.

>_>;

HTML5 is super efficient, can't you tell?

Edit: Because it seems to leap when I'm loading HTML5 video, and doesn't go down quickly afterward.

thomaskc
May 17, 2013, 10:14 AM
Thanks. When I installed from Pacifier, it looks like it wasn't using any video drivers at all. I pulled out the new drivers manually, had to reinstall the latest 10.8.4, now at least it's back to the ones that come with the beta.

I'd still like to try the newest from nvidia, although at this point it might be after 10.8.4 goes public and nvidia ships another update.

Didnt have that problem at all, basically nothing changed for me when I installed them.

RedGeminiPA
May 17, 2013, 10:27 AM
Safari Web Content for you.

My process SafariForWebKitDevelopment Web Content is already at ~1.8GB despite being started about twenty minutes ago. This isn't a good sign.

Are you running this beta build?

Michael Goff
May 17, 2013, 10:55 AM
Are you running this beta build?

Yes.

milo
May 17, 2013, 11:31 AM
Didnt have that problem at all, basically nothing changed for me when I installed them.

It doesn't matter much either way, the point is it seems like there's no way to run the new nvidia drivers with this latest beta.

Asgorath
May 17, 2013, 12:31 PM
It doesn't matter much either way, the point is it seems like there's no way to run the new nvidia drivers with this latest beta.

Discussed here (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1440150):

If you have installed a web driver from NVIDIA, it is likely that the OS update from Apple will overwrite them. Now that the stock drivers from Apple will still let your card function, this is not a deal breaker. You should NOT attempt to make drivers from one OS release work with a new OS release in general, since the drivers are closely tied to the frameworks that shipped with the version of the OS that the driver was intended for. Trying to force the 10.8.1 web driver to work with 10.8.2, for example, is just asking for trouble and will probably make your machine no longer boot to the desktop.

Granted, now that the NVIDIA driver installs side-by-side with the stock Apple driver there's less chance you'll prevent your system from booting, but the basic point still stands.

milo
May 17, 2013, 01:15 PM
Yep, I'm aware that it's not recommended. But Apple's drivers are causing problems for me and honestly at this point I'm desperate enough to want to try the new ones from nvidia.

Asgorath
May 17, 2013, 02:24 PM
Yep, I'm aware that it's not recommended. But Apple's drivers are causing problems for me and honestly at this point I'm desperate enough to want to try the new ones from nvidia.

Go back to 10.8.3 then? The NVIDIA drivers will work fine on that OS release (12D78).

50548
May 17, 2013, 05:42 PM
Do you use your Mac for real work, or just for startup/shutdown benchmarks?

I also don't understand what the issue is, really - I can't even remember the last time I shut down my Mac apart from when I was leaving for long holidays...and no, it doesn't take longer than some 5-10 seconds.

----------

Those articles are a bit outdated and no longer relevant. Prior to Lion 10.7.2 one could access the PW by using direct memory access (DMA) through either Firewire or Thunderbolt. However, DMA access was blocked in 10.7.2, so the software mentioned in those articles will not work if you have an updated system.

At this point a hackers only hope is to chill the RAM and quickly swap it into a compatible machine to grab the PW from RAM. I have seen Youtube vids of this on Windows machines, but never a Mac. So I think at this point we would have to call this method "theoretical."

Of course if you have a newer machine like a Macbook Air with the RAM soldered in, this method is also off the table.

Not to mention that you're talking about someone having PHYSICAL access to your computer...in other words, this would never happen unless someone actually broke into your house.

fpsBeaTt
May 18, 2013, 07:11 AM
So, you reboot into other operating systems regularly and you have long periods of uptime as well.

Now I'm confused. How does that work?

Daily circumstances are not static. Are yours?

cal6n
May 18, 2013, 07:39 AM
Daily circumstances are not static. Are yours?

No but "long periods of uptime" implies days or even weeks between reboots to most people.

Just saying...

cmChimera
May 18, 2013, 08:54 AM
What you find minor is not minor to others, especially for a premium product designed to give the smoothest and cleanest experience possible. The degree of importance you personally place on it in your specific circumstance is irrelevant; it's an issue for people using a premium product, one that's persisted and is noticeable, and needs to be corrected. End of story. I suppose our impressions of Macs and their selling points were far different then. I did not make a purchase because the device shuts down quickly. I bought my machine for the numerous other features it provides. I also don't buy the whole "I bought a premium product" argument. You bought a computer. It has bugs. Apple fixes them at their discretion based on importance and ability.
Count me out of that 'most'.
Ok.

Krazy Bill
May 18, 2013, 10:40 AM
I did not make a purchase because the device shuts down quickly. I bought my machine for the numerous other features it provides.

But for some of us, we bought our machines working a certain way, then Apple took something away (quick reboots/shut downs).

We aren't bitching about feature changes like merging iOS with OSX - those are by design and are inherently going to happen. We're talking about a blatant, easily replicable and totally ignored "oversight" in the code.

Granted, it's been many years since I've developed or coded but I do know this... if you can repeat a bug every time and have system logs that easily pinpoint where the problem is, you simply squash it - and don't ignore it. Perhaps coding ethics have changed but I could never work this way.

dyn
May 18, 2013, 01:02 PM
Those people who don't care about shutdown times, and leave their Macs in a sleep mode all day, probably don't take the Macs out of their houses. They also aren't aware that even if the Mac is encrypted with FileVault2, if a thief gets hold of the Mac in sleep mode, it is not as secure as if it were stolen when totally shut down.

Sleep mode is more likely to be used on notebooks than on desktops for the simple fact that people are on the move and it is much faster to sleep/wake the machine than it it is to boot/shutdown. It is less useful on desktops than on notebooks because they can run the entire day since they are not going to go anywhere.

Filevault 2 isn't as bad as you think it is. There are some problems because with things like whole disk encryption the decryption key is usually stored temporarily in memory. You'd need direct access to it to be able to retrieve it. There are various mechanisms that actually prevent this from happening. The machine turned off is only a tad bit better. However, there are many other ways of getting the data even with something like Filevault 2 turned on and the machine turned off. If your password isn't very strong than brute forcing it is easy.
Also, the question remains if you actually should secure your Mac this way. A thief is more likely to use the machine if there is little security that prevents him from doing so. That gives you a much higher chance of retrieving your Mac. If you want to secure certain pieces of data than you could opt for something like secured dmg or TrueCrypt (of course with a proper password or even passphrase).


Given this fact, those people who rather pompously brushed aside those who value fast-shutdown times, need to reconsider their stance.

As do people who are pointing out a security problem. There are many ways of getting into a machine and to the data you want. I do agree that shutting down a machine has definitely got its benefits (just to name something: when the machine is properly off it doesn't use power which shaves off a little bit of the electric bill). However, "fast" is very subjective which is what people here need to understand. The way it works now is fast enough for me. What I dislike is how much time it needs to boot and login when using the "reopen all windows" option. Also, the 10s delay when waking my MBA is a bit annoying at times (luckily you can influence this at the cost of a more power hungry machine when in sleepmode).


To those who lazily just put their Macs to sleep -- and, in their ignorance, BRAG about it -- educate yourself and do this google search:

mac vulnerable sleep shutdown filevault 2

Practice what you preach. If you actually search and read you'd have learned that you are exaggerating. If we are talking about security risks than there are many more, even when the machine is completely shutdown.


And whilst Apple are at it fixing ML 10.8.4, they might address this security issue that sleeping Macs have.
This shows how little understanding you have about this issue. They have already addressed it and it's all they can do. This "issue" is something that can not be fixed.

JohnDoe98
May 18, 2013, 01:21 PM
We aren't bitching about feature changes like merging iOS with OSX - those are by design and are inherently going to happen. We're talking about a blatant, easily replicable and totally ignored "oversight" in the code.


But perhaps we are. After all, how often do you reboot your iPhone or iPad? I'd say rarely to never in my case, and the slow shutdowns are irrelevant there. So perhaps Apple's new approach is we should use our comps as we do our mobiles?? (I say this facetiously)

GIZBUG
May 18, 2013, 01:46 PM
So... how many more *betas* to go before we see *pilot*/roll out ?

7 more

ItWasNotMe
May 18, 2013, 01:49 PM
... I did not make a purchase because the device shuts down quickly. ... I also don't buy the whole "I bought a premium product" argument. You bought a computer. It has bugs...

I did't buy a machine for its shut down time either. With apologies to both manufacturers, I paid for a Rolls Royce, I was delivered a Tuk-Tuk. The bugs that prevent/slow shut down were delivered as part of Mountain Lion. My gripe is the rubbish in that version of OSX that causes me to have to shut down many times a day, which has been the case and not fixed since the first release of said software. More - Crab-Apple than Apple - that is, totally unpalatable.

Krazy Bill
May 18, 2013, 04:40 PM
So perhaps Apple's new approach is we should use our comps as we do our mobiles??Well, if you're saying Apple is trying to "force" people into sleeping their OSX machines I'd ask why? Macs have a much greater power draw and they are certainly not iPhones or iPads. Besides, if this were truly Apple's intent, the Power Button would behave just like an iOS device and it doesn't.

Nope. Apple screwed up and more importantly, they don't care. It's really that simple. But to your point, Shutting down Windows 8 takes a whole freaking lot of mouse clicks.

(I say this facetiously)

Understood. :)

bedifferent
May 18, 2013, 05:08 PM
We need to start a change.org petition to bring back Serlet Bertrand :p

imacken
May 18, 2013, 06:37 PM
But to your point, Shutting down Windows 8 takes a whole freaking lot of mouse clicks.

Eh, it takes two!

Krazy Bill
May 18, 2013, 08:07 PM
Eh, it takes two!

:confused:

1.) Move mouse to corner - expose charm
2.) Click on "gear"
3.) Click on "power"
4.) Click on Shutdown.

I count "4" unique mouse movements.

w0lf
May 18, 2013, 09:43 PM
:confused:

1.) Move mouse to corner - expose charm
2.) Click on "gear"
3.) Click on "power"
4.) Click on Shutdown.

I count "4" unique mouse movements.

Isn't that the same exact amount as osx?

1) Move mouse to corner
2) Click on Apple
3) Click on Shutdown
4) Click on Confirm

If there was a default way to shut down in two mouse clicks from anywhere there'd probably be a whole lot of cases of people randomly shutting down their computers.

AAPLGeek
May 18, 2013, 10:11 PM
My biggest gripe with updates following 10.8.1 is removal of ability to keep the MBP's internal display turned off while keep the lid open in clamshell mode.

In 10.8.1, you just had to enter "sudo nvram boot-args=iog=0x0" command in terminal to restore the screen behavior to what we had in 10.6. But Apple decided to **** it up in 10.8.2 and further releases and now it'll most likely never be fixed.

Thanks Apple!:rolleyes:

sshhoott
May 18, 2013, 11:02 PM
Have a feeling that the 10.8.4 update will release right beside OS X 10.9 developer preview during WWDC - June 10, 2013.

imacken
May 19, 2013, 12:24 AM
:confused:

1.) Move mouse to corner - expose charm
2.) Click on "gear"
3.) Click on "power"
4.) Click on Shutdown.

I count "4" unique mouse movements.
Sorry, I should have said 3 clicks, but it certainly isn't a 'whole freaking lot of mouse clicks' as you stated before.
Same as OS X, in fact.

justperry
May 19, 2013, 12:36 AM
Isn't that the same exact amount as osx?

1) Move mouse to corner
2) Click on Apple
3) Click on Shutdown
4) Click on Confirm

If there was a default way to shut down in two mouse clicks from anywhere there'd probably be a whole lot of cases of people randomly shutting down their computers.

1. Hit Power Button
2. Hit Enter.

M5RahuL
May 19, 2013, 02:13 AM
Under Windows 7 [ not running 8 ATM ] Press the Power button [ configured under power settings ] and computer shuts off. That's it!

justperry
May 19, 2013, 02:15 AM
Under Windows 7 [ not running 8 ATM ] Press the Power button [ configured under power settings ] and computer shuts off. That's it!

On a Mac yank the power cord, shuts down instantly.:eek::p;)

opinio
May 19, 2013, 04:49 AM
Nice to know it is progressing.

Ddyracer
May 19, 2013, 05:26 AM
1. Hit Power Button
2. Hit Enter.

That works on the MacBook's only.

treichert
May 19, 2013, 07:08 AM
That works on the MacBook's only.

No, works on every Mac I have ever owned.

justperry
May 19, 2013, 07:15 AM
No, works on every Mac I have ever owned.

I just tried on my 2012 Mini, it went into sleep instead of getting the dialogue box, then I unticked the box in Energy saver (Allow Power button to put the computer to sleep) and it is there.

Ddyracer
May 19, 2013, 08:15 AM
No, works on every Mac I have ever owned.

Not on my machine. Never did. Unless it's some feature built into the newer iMacs

I just tried on my 2012 Mini, it went into sleep instead of getting the dialogue box, then I unticked the box in Energy saver (Allow Power button to put the computer to sleep) and it is there.

So that's it. Thanks.

Macrolido
May 19, 2013, 11:49 AM
Only six betas to go...

MacsRgr8
May 19, 2013, 12:21 PM
Not on my machine. Never did. Unless it's some feature built into the newer iMacs


You can also use CTRL - EJECT, followed by ENTER.

w0lf
May 19, 2013, 12:54 PM
1. Hit Power Button
2. Hit Enter.

But that's irrelevant. Not only is that, from what I recall, not the default setting of the power button (sleep) but I said 2 mouse clicks, not pressing a button on your device and then a key/mouse click.

If that was actually not a response to the 2 click part of the comment and rather the 1 movement + 3 clicks to shutdown osx that is also irrelevant because you can also shutdown windows using the power button.

fpsBeaTt
May 20, 2013, 03:06 AM
I suppose our impressions of Macs and their selling points were far different then. I did not make a purchase because the device shuts down quickly. I bought my machine for the numerous other features it provides. I also don't buy the whole "I bought a premium product" argument. You bought a computer. It has bugs. Apple fixes them at their discretion based on importance and ability.

What even? You put up an asinine false premise and then defend it. Good job. Either that, or you're genuinely illiterate and have nothing but my sympathy.

fpsBeaTt
May 20, 2013, 06:42 AM
I did't buy a machine for its shut down time either. With apologies to both manufacturers, I paid for a Rolls Royce, I was delivered a Tuk-Tuk. The bugs that prevent/slow shut down were delivered as part of Mountain Lion. My gripe is the rubbish in that version of OSX that causes me to have to shut down many times a day, which has been the case and not fixed since the first release of said software. More - Crab-Apple than Apple - that is, totally unpalatable.

This.

cmChimera
May 20, 2013, 07:46 AM
I did't buy a machine for its shut down time either. With apologies to both manufacturers, I paid for a Rolls Royce, I was delivered a Tuk-Tuk. The bugs that prevent/slow shut down were delivered as part of Mountain Lion. My gripe is the rubbish in that version of OSX that causes me to have to shut down many times a day, which has been the case and not fixed since the first release of said software. More - Crab-Apple than Apple - that is, totally unpalatable. Again, your problems aren't representative of most people. I run OS X weeks and months at a time without shut down and it runs perfectly. You may want to look at what's wrong with your set up.

But for some of us, we bought our machines working a certain way, then Apple took something away (quick reboots/shut downs).
Well I've had a Mac since Tiger, so I've "had something taken away" as well. I just feel it's not a major loss. But if it's important to you, let's hope they fix it for your sake. We can agree to disagree as to how important it is.

What even? You put up an asinine false premise and then defend it. Good job. Either that, or you're genuinely illiterate and have nothing but my sympathy. Yeah, clearly I can't read. I'm not really sure how I've been managing to navigate the internet.

milo
May 20, 2013, 09:25 AM
I run OS X weeks and months at a time without shut down and it runs perfectly.

Which means that you don't encounter the problem, not that the problem doesn't exist. If you had a car that generally had problems turning left, you'd be the guy insisting that it's OK since you only turn right.

Rossatron
May 20, 2013, 09:28 AM
i understand where he comes from. apple's products are expensive, so people expect a do-it-all answer-personal-criteria kind of computer. they forget that while their products (in my opinion) are very good, in the end it's a computer. it needs to answer a certain set of demands, that relevant to most users, as apple wants to get as many costumers as possible.

if one searched for a computer based on broad demands (battery time, specs etc) than (if he chose so) they will be happy with an apple computer.

if, however, they are looking for a very certain feature (shut-down time, as an example) they should look for another computer that can deliver it. i'm sceptical that such a computer exists. i didnt see dell/asus/hp advertising a laptop by "we have the fastest shut-down time!!!!!!!!1111"

2crazy
May 20, 2013, 11:07 AM
if, however, they are looking for a very certain feature (shut-down time, as an example) they should look for another computer that can deliver it. i'm sceptical that such a computer exists. i didnt see dell/asus/hp advertising a laptop by "we have the fastest shut-down time!!!!!!!!1111"

Maybe they should advertise it! Some people seem to be very passionate about their shutdown times :D

Ddyracer
May 20, 2013, 11:22 AM
You can also use CTRL - EJECT, followed by ENTER.

Yeah i used to do that when i had an apple keyboard.

milo
May 20, 2013, 11:55 AM
if, however, they are looking for a very certain feature

People aren't asking for a "feature", people are asking for a bug to be fixed.

Yeah i used to do that when i had an apple keyboard.

Maybe you still can, just hold down F12 instead of eject.

cmChimera
May 20, 2013, 12:52 PM
Which means that you don't encounter the problem, not that the problem doesn't exist. If you had a car that generally had problems turning left, you'd be the guy insisting that it's OK since you only turn right.

Unless you can quote me some source that states that there is a general problem with OS X after standardly long uptimes, particularly in comparison to other OSes, then I stand by my opinion. I would say the vast majority of this forum keeps their macs up for long periods of time.

milo
May 20, 2013, 01:12 PM
That's not the problem.

noiseordinance
May 20, 2013, 05:03 PM
I also find the shutdown speeds to be slightly annoying on my rMBP 15", but since I only use bootcamp a few times a day, I still sleep easy at night. My two cents, however, is that this issue is not being worked on. My desktop background resets every single time I reboot (as it has since 10.8.1), so it's clear to me that the Apple devs do not restart their computers... ever. Honestly, it's the stupidest persistent bug known to man kind. I'm not losing sleep over this issue either, but it definitely shows how poorly Apple manages development on the OSX platform.

dastinger
May 20, 2013, 09:37 PM
People aren't asking for a "feature", people are asking for a bug to be fixed.

FFS, please understand this once and for all. Pull your heads out your ass and understand that it's not about shut down being faster because we want it to be. It's about a bunch of processes that fail to quit ALL THE TIME so they need to be killed. How isn't that important, easy to diagnose and probably to fix? Let's applaud Apple for ignoring it and instead care about Safari being snappier? Good God.

thomaskc
May 20, 2013, 10:36 PM
I wonder how every thread on this forum turns into shutdown times every single time.... no matter the initial topic!

It's boring people.. come up with something new please.

RedGeminiPA
May 21, 2013, 12:35 AM
I wonder how every thread on this forum turns into shutdown times every single time.... no matter the initial topic!

It's boring people.. come up with something new please.

I agree. If shutdown time is so important because of Bootcamp, install a damn VM and be done with it. I use VirtualBox, and it works just fine for FREE. It's also a lot more flexible.

dastinger
May 21, 2013, 08:04 AM
I agree. If shutdown time is so important because of Bootcamp, install a damn VM and be done with it. I use VirtualBox, and it works just fine for FREE. It's also a lot more flexible.
Lol, you're kidding me right? Performance it's not even the same. You're basically telling people to lose performance under Windows because shutdown times are slow. Facepalm

Rossatron
May 21, 2013, 08:16 AM
lets talk numbers here. how much time does it take your computer to shut down, from the moment you click "shut down now"?

milo
May 21, 2013, 09:21 AM
FFS, please understand this once and for all. Pull your heads out your ass and understand that it's not about shut down being faster because we want it to be. It's about a bunch of processes that fail to quit ALL THE TIME so they need to be killed. How isn't that important, easy to diagnose and probably to fix? Let's applaud Apple for ignoring it and instead care about Safari being snappier? Good God.

I'm not sure if you responded to the wrong post or didn't read what I wrote, but you're agreeing with me.

People don't like to hear the complaints, but they will stop when Apple fixes the problem. Anyone who doesn't want to hear them any more, drop Apple a line bugging them to fix it.

Luap
May 21, 2013, 09:36 AM
Only six betas to go...


Wow fellas. It looks like just maybe the much yawned over "Safari iz teh snappier! hehehehehehehe" finally got old for the Mac dorks, and they moved onto this for their kicks instead. It only took them 9 years!

I feel we're witnessing the dawn of the Anti-ADHD era. Instead of being bored of something after 5 minutes, they get more and more into it week after week, month after month. I fear it could spiral out of control into a dangerous and unstoppable chain reaction. Then the AADHD Mac Dorks will start spontaneously combusting.
Then their dorky friends can send dorky tweets about how they saw the throbbing dorky giblets of their self detonated dorky comrade.

But heres a little something so the AADHD Mac dorks don't get upset or offended.

lulz xd wut idk o0 ^^ SNAPPEH!!

See, you just gotta reach out to them in their own language. However retarded it may look to those of us who did get at least a half decent education and are able to string together a coherent sentence.

:cool:

Michael Goff
May 21, 2013, 09:40 AM
I agree. If shutdown time is so important because of Bootcamp, install a damn VM and be done with it. I use VirtualBox, and it works just fine for FREE. It's also a lot more flexible.

Yeah, because performance is meaningless ... or maybe you think that people aren't going to Windows to do things that take a lot of resources. Which is it?

JohnDoe98
May 21, 2013, 03:23 PM
I wonder how every thread on this forum turns into shutdown times every single time.... no matter the initial topic!

It's boring people.. come up with something new please.

The solution is simple. Every time a new beta will be released, we know someone who experiences the shutdown problem will ask if the current beta has fixed it. That's normal and expected. Instead of people replying with countless useless attempts to tell that person why he shouldn't care about shutdowns or how they themselves never shutdown etc, just answer: "fixed" or "not fixed", and move on. That will keep everything short and sweet. But for some reason people always feel the need to incite controversy by telling those who care about this bug that they shouldn't care about it, and that will go nowhere and just derail more and more threads.

thomaskc
May 21, 2013, 06:37 PM
The solution is simple. Every time a new beta will be released, we know someone who experiences the shutdown problem will ask if the current beta has fixed it. That's normal and expected. Instead of people replying with countless useless attempts to tell that person why he shouldn't care about shutdowns or how they themselves never shutdown etc, just answer: "fixed" or "not fixed", and move on. That will keep everything short and sweet. But for some reason people always feel the need to incite controversy by telling those who care about this bug that they shouldn't care about it, and that will go nowhere and just derail more and more threads.

Dont get me wrong, people are allowed to have their problems and things they want fixed, by all means, different things piss off different people. But I am just tired of browsing through page after page with useless information from people that clearly have 0 actual stats, recordings or insight knowledge to both how things work or if anything has actually changed over the last 3 years. I wouldn't mind the topic if there was actual data, some juice to get hooked on, as of right now its just hot air floating around for no reason.

Anyway /rant

Must be time for a new beta soon? :P

dastinger
May 21, 2013, 06:51 PM
I'm not sure if you responded to the wrong post or didn't read what I wrote, but you're agreeing with me.

People don't like to hear the complaints, but they will stop when Apple fixes the problem. Anyone who doesn't want to hear them any more, drop Apple a line bugging them to fix it.
Sorry, it was misleading. When I said "please understand this" I was referring to what you said in your post. Yes, I was agreeing with you.

JohnDoe98
May 21, 2013, 08:26 PM
I wouldn't mind the topic if there was actual data, some juice to get hooked on, as of right now its just hot air floating around for no reason.

We've provided hard data in other threads. There are well documented console logs pinpointing the problem to a few, specific, processes. That's why it is so annoying and futile when people claim there is no issue and we shouldn't care. If anyone is actually interested in finding out what the problem is it won't be hard for them. I don't see the need to constantly post that data in each thread. However if someone says there isn't a problem, I don't see the harm in informing them otherwise.

imacken
May 22, 2013, 03:31 AM
However if someone says there isn't a problem, I don't see the harm in informing them otherwise.
One of the reasons why this kind of debate continues is that some people become irritated when posts on an issue suggest the problem is universal when it is clearly not. Probably only being experienced by a few.
(I'm not saying you are guilty of that, just making a general comment.)

Yaboze
May 22, 2013, 09:19 AM
I feel it's an issue still worth mentioning because OSX used to shut down fairly quickly and now it doesn't for many. I have a 2007 White Macbook with 10.6.8 that boots up and shuts down quicker than my 2011 MBP, even with a clean install. Sometimes it does shut down quick in ML, but most of the time I get the spinning thing on the gray screen and it takes a bit.

milo
May 22, 2013, 09:31 AM
...suggest the problem is universal when it is clearly not. Probably only being experienced by a few.

While it's probably not "universal", meaning literally every mac has a noticeable problem with it, it certainly seems to be very common. Just because you don't see the problem doesn't mean that only a few people have the issue.

Macrolido
May 22, 2013, 09:38 AM
Wow fellas. It looks like just maybe the much yawned over "Safari iz teh snappier! hehehehehehehe" finally got old for the Mac dorks, and they moved onto this for their kicks instead. It only took them 9 years!

I feel we're witnessing the dawn of the Anti-ADHD era. Instead of being bored of something after 5 minutes, they get more and more into it week after week, month after month. I fear it could spiral out of control into a dangerous and unstoppable chain reaction. Then the AADHD Mac Dorks will start spontaneously combusting.
Then their dorky friends can send dorky tweets about how they saw the throbbing dorky giblets of their self detonated dorky comrade.

But heres a little something so the AADHD Mac dorks don't get upset or offended.

lulz xd wut idk o0 ^^ SNAPPEH!!

See, you just gotta reach out to them in their own language. However retarded it may look to those of us who did get at least a half decent education and are able to string together a coherent sentence.

:cool:

Wow! Apply cold water to that burn!

ItWasNotMe
May 22, 2013, 01:40 PM
...Again, your problems aren't representative of most people. I run OS X weeks and months at a time without shut down and it runs perfectly. You may want to look at what's wrong with your set up...
Never said they were representative.

Whats wrong with my set-up, primarily, is having moved from Snow Leopard to Mountain Lion. In 44 years of IT use, Mountain Lion is close to top (almost certainly in the top one as I can't think of another candidate) of the least reliable software I've ever seen.

Status:
1. All software, Crab-Apple and 3rd party is absolutely latest version, all update options report no updates
2. All worked 'perfectly' under Snow Leopard (I skipped Lion), though I concede that all have been updated since to the Mountain Lion compatible version
3. Disk Utility reports no errors on any disk, no permissions errors
4. When Time Machine not active/not been manually stopped most things sort of work
5. No 'edits'/'adjustments' by tinker tool etc. other than using tmutil to set the attributes on one specific (40gb) file
6. Rig has several external disks and I think its these that are not the issue for 'most' users.

Examples of issues:
A. Time Machine has been 'Preparing backup' for the last two hours - opened Disk Utility an hour ago; its still 'Gathering Information' - Hmmm... feels like deadly embrace to me
B. Earlier today - Used iPhoto for a few minutes, didn't close it then and there. Later, closed it, window disappeared almost immediately. An hour later, process still hanging around 'Not responding'. Force quit, re-open and it won't start as disk / library is locked so restart needed if I want to use it again.

IMHO; Apple, doesn't test anything well; in particular hasn't thought recently about what happens when drives sleep. Of course, drives on phones are rarely in sleep mode

dyn
May 22, 2013, 04:32 PM
FFS, please understand this once and for all. Pull your heads out your ass and understand that it's not about shut down being faster because we want it to be. It's about a bunch of processes that fail to quit ALL THE TIME so they need to be killed. How isn't that important, easy to diagnose and probably to fix? Let's applaud Apple for ignoring it and instead care about Safari being snappier? Good God.
No let's applaud you ranting about something you clearly have no understanding about. As if tracing a problem can be done in a few seconds, solving it can be done in a few more seconds, some testing in yet another few seconds and doing that circle all over again a couple of times in no more than 1 minute! You lack all reality in this.

What you see are symptoms. Symptoms might be the problem itself, it may be just the outcome of several problems. Finding what is going on will take some time. Sometimes you'll find it in minutes, most of the time it takes days, weeks and with complex problems even months. Fixing the problem would be exactly the same: it can take a few minutes, days, weeks or even months depending on how complex it is. The reason for this is very simple: you need to reproduce it to make sure that whatever you identified as the problem really is the problem. The same applies to the solution: you need to make sure it really is the solution. If not you get the Microsoft craziness: a patch for a patch that patches a patch. Quality takes time.

If takes a long time it might mean they are not caring that much, it might also mean that they are having difficulty in finding and/or resolving the problem. There is no way you can tell which one it is so it's stupid to say they are not caring (as it is as saying they are taking their time to get it resolved properly).

So what makes you say the cause is stuff not shutting down, it's easy to diagnose and Apple is not caring? All I see are random assumptions you are making without having any knowledge about software development and standard troubleshooting.

milo
May 22, 2013, 05:13 PM
As if tracing a problem can be done in a few seconds, solving it can be done in a few more seconds, some testing in yet another few seconds and doing that circle all over again a couple of times in no more than 1 minute!

Who is asking for a fix in one minute? In case you're forgotten, 10.8.0 shipped last July. If that's not enough time for Apple to fix it, they either don't care about the problem, or they lack the skills to fix it. As you pointed out, we don't know which of those two possibilities is the case, but neither one makes Apple look good.

dastinger
May 22, 2013, 06:29 PM
No let's applaud you ranting about something you clearly have no understanding about. As if tracing a problem can be done in a few seconds, solving it can be done in a few more seconds, some testing in yet another few seconds and doing that circle all over again a couple of times in no more than 1 minute! You lack all reality in this.

What you see are symptoms. Symptoms might be the problem itself, it may be just the outcome of several problems. Finding what is going on will take some time. Sometimes you'll find it in minutes, most of the time it takes days, weeks and with complex problems even months. Fixing the problem would be exactly the same: it can take a few minutes, days, weeks or even months depending on how complex it is. The reason for this is very simple: you need to reproduce it to make sure that whatever you identified as the problem really is the problem. The same applies to the solution: you need to make sure it really is the solution. If not you get the Microsoft craziness: a patch for a patch that patches a patch. Quality takes time.

If takes a long time it might mean they are not caring that much, it might also mean that they are having difficulty in finding and/or resolving the problem. There is no way you can tell which one it is so it's stupid to say they are not caring (as it is as saying they are taking their time to get it resolved properly).

So what makes you say the cause is stuff not shutting down, it's easy to diagnose and Apple is not caring? All I see are random assumptions you are making without having any knowledge about software development and standard troubleshooting.
Are you serious? Do you even know for how much time the problem exists? Have you been reading the forums? How many persons here said they can replicate the issue EVERY TIME and EVERY TIME the issue is with the same processes that fail to quit during shut down?

This is exactly the same as the issue with reduced performance on 15" rMBPs. It was there since forever but Apple only cared to fix it once people started seriously complaining. Once that happened, Apple took 15 days to solve the issue by updating the EFI. Maybe they were testing it for months. Or maybe the timing was a mere coincidence :rolleyes:

Hugh
May 22, 2013, 10:07 PM
Isn't that the same exact amount as osx?

1) Move mouse to corner
2) Click on Apple
3) Click on Shutdown
4) Click on Confirm

If there was a default way to shut down in two mouse clicks from anywhere there'd probably be a whole lot of cases of people randomly shutting down their computers.


Actualy it's more like this:

1. Move pointer to the Apple menu.
2. Hold down the mouse and move to 'Shutdown'.
3. Click on 'Shutdown'.


Hugh

geralddarden
May 23, 2013, 11:47 AM
Anyone with an Nvidia based MBP (mid-2010) tried this build? If so, does it solve the random KPs?

gwang73
May 23, 2013, 03:20 PM
Anyone with an Nvidia based MBP (mid-2010) tried this build? If so, does it solve the random KPs?

Sorry, the only topic discussed in this thread is slow shutdown times which makes this thread absolutely useless to discuss 10.8.4 beta releases. If you want any actual information on 10.8.4 betas, looks like you need to start a different thread.

I have a 2012 rMPB and don't have random KPs.

w0lf
May 23, 2013, 04:32 PM
Anyone with an Nvidia based MBP (mid-2010) tried this build? If so, does it solve the random KPs?

I think you probably have a problem with your computer.

I've been using the MacBook Pro (13-inch, Mid 2010) 7,1 with all the latest builds, not once have I experienced a kernel panic. I'm pretty sure if random kernel panics were being caused by a build of 10.8 on Nvidia macbook pros from 2010 you wouldn't be the only person I've heard complain about it.

saturnotaku
May 23, 2013, 04:36 PM
I've been using the MacBook Pro (13-inch, Mid 2010) 7,1 with all the latest builds, not once have I experienced a kernel panic. I'm pretty sure if random kernel panics were being caused by a build of 10.8 on Nvidia macbook pros from 2010 you wouldn't be the only person I've heard complain about it.

I think the problems with KPs affected Core i5/i7 models, not the Core2Duo 13-inch.

Ddyracer
May 23, 2013, 05:05 PM
People aren't asking for a "feature", people are asking for a bug to be fixed.



Maybe you still can, just hold down F12 instead of eject.

Nope, standard function for the f keys are not supported unless you have a apple keyboard.

Zmijutin
May 23, 2013, 06:59 PM
I don't want to get everybody's hopes up, but I'm getting awesome WiFi stability. No more random disconnects. Anybody else is having same results?

Otherwise, can't tell difference between earlier betas nor 10.8.3.

tywebb13
May 24, 2013, 05:22 PM
new build 12E55 is out now:

http://9to5mac.com/2013/05/24/apple-seeds-os-x-10-8-4-beta-build-12e55-to-developers/

seed note on mac dev center is different.

it now says

Focus Areas

- Wi-Fi

- Graphics Drivers
- Safari
- Windows File Sharing

(although Windows File Sharing is not mentioned in the mas)

Risco
May 24, 2013, 05:23 PM
new build 12E55 is out now.

Anyone willing to summarise what they have fixed that can be noticed by the end user?

milo
May 24, 2013, 08:42 PM
Nope, standard function for the f keys are not supported unless you have a apple keyboard.

Did you try it? Works with my mac mini and a windows keyboard. But that's with 10.6, maybe they took it out in 10.7 or 10.8.

Ddyracer
May 24, 2013, 10:20 PM
Did you try it? Works with my mac mini and a windows keyboard. But that's with 10.6, maybe they took it out in 10.7 or 10.8.

The *****s took it out around 10.8.2. ****ers.

dyn
May 25, 2013, 01:40 PM
Who is asking for a fix in one minute? In case you're forgotten, 10.8.0 shipped last July. If that's not enough time for Apple to fix it, they either don't care about the problem, or they lack the skills to fix it. As you pointed out, we don't know which of those two possibilities is the case, but neither one makes Apple look good.

Are you serious? Do you even know for how much time the problem exists? Have you been reading the forums? How many persons here said they can replicate the issue EVERY TIME and EVERY TIME the issue is with the same processes that fail to quit during shut down?

This is exactly the same as the issue with reduced performance on 15" rMBPs. It was there since forever but Apple only cared to fix it once people started seriously complaining. Once that happened, Apple took 15 days to solve the issue by updating the EFI. Maybe they were testing it for months. Or maybe the timing was a mere coincidence :rolleyes:

Like I said: you have no idea what you are talking about. Take a look at various bugs from various pieces of software. How many are fixed in 1 year and how many are fixed after more than 1 year? In most cases bugs will be fixed after 1 year, even security bugs. That's because finding, fixing, testing and rolling out takes a lot of time. If the problem lies in shutting down processes at shutdown time there might be some fundamental problems in the OS. In that case it means things will take much longer to get fixed because it is very very complex due to it relying on many other components which might get broken because of the fix. We've seen it happen with Microsofts KB2823324 just recently. You can find similar issues with the Linux kernel. In IT rollbacks after applying patches is one of the most common things. Even after testing the fixes out properly. That's also the reason why companies do not like things like the rapid release cycle for Firefox and why they are always behind in versions. It's also the reason why every IT management model has release management in it. It is THE most important component to prevent things from breaking when you roll out something new.

Just because 1 issue took them 15 days to fix (could you consider that fast?) doesn't mean that they can with every issue.

And yes, if you are having the issue it is very annoying that it doesn't get fixed but it still doesn't mean that some company or IT doesn't care about it. That's an assumption you are making and basing on wrong information. Do know that most problems are caused by assuming things. Being very vocal about it on some rumours forum somewhere on the internet is not going to improve the situation. If things are taking too slow then take it up with the manufacturer (aka Apple) directly.

milo
May 26, 2013, 09:49 AM
Like I said: you have no idea what you are talking about.

It's amazing to me that people will bend over backwards so much to defend bugs. Frankly I don't care what the sycophants have to say.

dyn
May 26, 2013, 11:43 AM
It's amazing to me that people will bend over backwards so much to defend bugs. Frankly I don't care what the sycophants have to say.
It's amazing to me too, especially since this bug comes up in nearly every thread about 10.8.x updates. It is good to know if the update fixes the bug but it is idiotic to keep on complaining. Apple is not reading these threads. If you want them to fix it complain to them directly. And yes, fixing bugs takes time. Sometimes it's quick, sometimes it takes years (there was a certain known bug in UNIX operating systems which got fixed after 10 years...). It's not that difficult but people seem to be very fond of talking themselves into a stroke or heart attack nowadays.