BBC to Offer Videos Online?

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

The Independent reports (http://news.independent.co.uk/media/article323580.ece) on on-demand video content such as that provided by the iTunes Music Store. In less than 20 days, Apple announced (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2005/10/20051031120604.shtml) they had sold more than 1 million videos. The question of a more extensive lineup remains.

The Independent reports that the BBC is planning to offer "most of its programming" available for customers:

In Britain the BBC is planning a similar service by making most of its programming available on platforms like the video ipod for seven days after it has been broadcast. The difference is the BBC programmes will be available for free. Their logic is that the public have already paid for the programmes through the licence fee and it would be unfair to make them pay again.

No details the specific form of distribution they've chosen.

[samh004]

In less than 20 days, Apple announced (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2005/10/20051031120604.shtml) they had some more than 1 million videos. The question of a more extensive lineup remains.

You mean they sold more than 1 million videos right :p

[samh004]

I think it'd be great if the videos were offered for free. They know how to make their customers happy. :)

[giveup]

that's nice. i can threw my TV away and get refund of TV license.

[aswitcher]

Awesome. Well I'll be subscribing to these :)

[darwen]

This is a different situation though, the BBC operates completely differently than US networks. This wouldn't happen in iTunes either. I hate to burst people's bubbles if they think they are about to get free programming but people outside of the BBC's usual subscribers probably won't benefit from this.

[Marble]

Most of the content already available through the BBC uses Real's video technology. It would be a shame if a large-scale video service like this, no matter how many people it is available to, required RealPlayer. I'd like to think they're almost extinct by now.

[Sol]

One more reason to love the BBC. Hopefully more networks follow their example and offer their content for free.

I agree that the pay per download model does not work well with most video content, especially Apple's implementation which makes burning to CD or DVD impossible.

[Multimedia]

Awesome. Well I'll be subscribing to these :)IF they put it on iTunes with RSS subscription. Same is true for the new NBC Nightly News premiering next Monday evening at 7 PST/10 EST on MSNBC. Will we be EXCLUDED thanks to Microsoft's proprietary video format on that website or not? Will NBC put it on iTunes with an RSS feed?:confused:

[ArcaneDevice]

One more reason to love the BBC. Hopefully more networks follow their example and offer their content for free.

it's easy to love the BBC when you don't have to pay for it. Why would anyone outside of the UK get the shows for free? You didn't pay for it. Only those who pay the license fee should get the content for free.

That's the equivalent of offering all the top shows of everyone who pays extra for satellite or cable premium channels for free to everyone, on the basis that the subscribers have already paid for it.

However unlike the people in the UK you have a choice whether to pay for those channels or not.

[joepunk]

Nice idea there from the BBC. If the videos are free then I will definitly add them to my already growing subscription content of Podcasts.

Gotta love Tiki Bar TV:D

[barneygumble]

Now this is a system i can go for, the BBC must hace seom bandwidth to dispose of:p

[Analog Kid]

it's easy to love the BBC when you don't have to pay for it. Why would anyone outside of the UK get the shows for free? You didn't pay for it. Only those who pay the license fee should get the content for free.

That's the equivalent of offering all the top shows of everyone who pays extra for satellite or cable premium channels for free to everyone, on the basis that the subscribers have already paid for it.

However unlike the people in the UK you have a choice whether to pay for those channels or not.
No, it's the equivalent to putting NPR or PBS programs up for free. The BBC is not like HBO-- it's essentially a government funded broadcast. I think they still have a shortwave service (or did that get closed down a couple years ago) which goes well beyond their subscriber range.

As a government broadcast it serves two purposes: information/entertanment and public relations. It's mostly the news service that extends beyond the UK, and to the extent that people respect the BBC that goodwill carries over to their view of Britain.

Notice their website has no ads? That alone makes it a great resource, in my book.

I think it would be great if they do this, even if it is just the news broadcasts. I'd be an avid subscriber.

[hal9000]

No details the specific form of distribution they've chosen.

They could use the BBC-sponsored Dirac open-source codec.

The Dirac development project is hosted at SourceForge. See http://dirac.sourceforge.net/ for details.

They have an entry in the Dirac FAQ about it -

Is the BBC going to stream video using Dirac? (http://dirac.sourceforge.net/faq.html#a9)

[richardthomas78]

Here are the details...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/imp/

I e-mailed them and asked about distribution via iTunes but they said:

"We are currently unaware of plans to make programmes available for any other software, however, I have registered your suggestion on the daily log for the attention of the BBC web team and the senior management."

At the moment, the IMP Application is only available for Windows.

Rich

[yoak]

Just thinking...
What about the programs they have sold to NRK (Norwegian equivalent of the BBC) should I be able to get them for free as I have payed my licens fee to NRK?
I wonder how they will solve "problems" like these.
Probably only UK residents will be able to download for free is my guess.
BBC make alot of money selling DVD´s of their nature programs etc.

[J@ffa]

Yes, please be aware that the BBC is only going to offer this to those who reside in the UK and have a TV license. They've been working on an iMP (Integrated Media Player) for a while now, and there's a beta test programme currently running, but I think it uses RealPlayer. They'll restrict it either by IP or make you enter your license fee code, or something along those lines.

[adrianm]

The BBC is currently trialling a service called iMP ( http://www.bbc.co.uk/imp/ ) where you can schedule/download content and watch it from the day after it was broadcast back up 7 days after broadcast.

This covers TV and radio and even has some HDTV content in there.

This has got nothing to do with the RealMedia based content they put on the normal web-site.

The BBC has said that whilst iMP currently requires a Windows box (uses a special codec only available for WM9), they do plan a mac version.

The iMP client is somewhat similar to iTMS in that you can search by category, subscribe to program repeats (like podcasts), view downloads and play.

So if there is any link with the BBC and iTunes, it's likely that the BBC will make use if iTunes/Quicktime so long as it can support the BBC DRM or maybe the Fairplay DRM can be used to enforce the BBC's rules.

On quality: iMP content is full standard definition video (with some high-def). It would make Apple's current postage-stamp sized video offerings look ridiculous.

As to the license fee ripping up idea - I think you need to demonstrate that you are a license payer before you can sign up for iMP.

One last thing: it would be very cool if BBC decided to use iTMS for it's delivery of content, but I don't see them dumping iMP before it's even gone public... will wait and see.

[liketom]

sorry every one

BBC will only work for UK residents who pay there TV License
and so far this uses Real Player

[tgorochowski]

It is true presently they use a microsoft codec in the beta release (friend is participating). What no one here seems to realise is the genius behind it. Transfering high definition video via the iTunes music store would be stupid (the bandwidth requirements would be enormous). Instead the clever thing about iMP is that it uses a peer-2-peer system where the BBC servers seed the initial files and then as more people download it they further seed it, reducing the burden on the BBC servers. I do hope they can get a Mac version of there software out soon if this is going live, but the content will not be available via iTunes anytime soon me thinks.... but then stranger things have happened ;-)

[petej]

The BBC has proven itself over the years to use a variety of different distribution mechanisms and this is just one more. The BBC would definately not only supply content through iTunes as that would give the impression of officially endorsing iTunes and Apple. The BBC I'm sure will do their best to find a way to provide content for UK based iPod owners with or without iTunes for free, and for the stated 7 days. After 7 days, then the BBC retail operation can kick in and publicly sell the material - though I suspect this would target the overseas market.
If nothing else, I hope that the BBC re-establishes support for Quicktime feeds.

[mwwlse]

You'll need a UK IP address to access the content, and probably have to provide license fee details, they've done this before. Perhaps they'll offer content to non UK residents for a fee.

[adrianm]

sorry every one

BBC will only work for UK residents who pay there TV License
and so far this uses Real Player

It doesn't use Real Player. It uses a custom codec that requires WM9 or WM10.

I'm on the iMP trial.

[littlejim]

No, it's the equivalent to putting NPR or PBS programs up for free. The BBC is not like HBO-- it's essentially a government funded broadcast. I think they still have a shortwave service (or did that get closed down a couple years ago) which goes well beyond their subscriber range.

As a government broadcast it serves two purposes: information/entertanment and public relations. It's mostly the news service that extends beyond the UK, and to the extent that people respect the BBC that goodwill carries over to their view of Britain.

Notice their website has no ads? That alone makes it a great resource, in my book.

I think it would be great if they do this, even if it is just the news broadcasts. I'd be an avid subscriber.

The BBC is NOT a government funded organization and does not broadcast governent information etc. The BBC makes all it's money from the Licence fee and it's commercial operations.
In fact, the BBC has a great history of kicking our government (of all colours) in the
goolies (http://cgi.peak.org/~jeremy/retort.cgi?British=goolies)!

[simty]

BBC will be using Windoze Media Player 9. They also have a technolgy for blocking viewers outside the UK. Downloads will time out after 2 weeks. Distribution will be done by a P2P system cutting the BBC bandwidth costs. Mac and Linux support is intended but I can't see MS doing a Linux version of WMP9 any time soon. I see no reason why the BBC shouldn't put content up on iTMS, free from the UK store $1.99 for averyone else.

[jrober]

...They'll restrict it either by IP or make you enter your license fee code, or something along those lines.

J@ffa has a point they already restrict some of the replay video on their site by IP address. When I was away working in Sweden I could not watch the BBC news as my IP was non UK. Despite continuing to pay licence fee, be a UK resident etc.

I hope they find a way to offer their programs via iTunes. Could they not offer to licence video by using peoples licence numbers. Non UK TV licence holders could pay for the videos.

[cwedl]

I heard about this early last year, I thought you had to pay and subscribe and only certain shows would be available?

[garybUK]

Now this is a system i can go for, the BBC must hace seom bandwidth to dispose of:p

BBC has just a little bit of bandwidth : http://support.bbc.co.uk/support/network/

Amazing network.

[lord_flash]

that's nice. i can threw my TV away and get refund of TV license.

Hmm... I hope they don't let folks without TV licenses download BBC content. Not just because I'm mean minded – though of course I am – but because, if people started doing this, then eventually the BBC's one source of income would dry up and all British TV would by like ITV (shudder). Awful American buy-ins (sorry, no offence, but I hate reality shows) and detective shows.

(That said, The West Wing was American, and shown on a commercial station over here... no, that's no excuse, I hope the new detector vans will hunt down video iPods too)

[maddav]

This would be amazing, I always forget to watch programmes on BBC, so I could just download them, and watch them the next day on the bus or something :D

[lord_flash]

I hope they find a way to offer their programs via iTunes. Could they not offer to licence video by using peoples licence numbers. Non UK TV licence holders could pay for the videos.

Hey, Brighton. Good for you. me too. But anyway, Apple aren't excatly cooperative when it comes to localisation and they're hardly likely to put BBC-only features into iTunes (not without the beeb coughing up a huge amount of license fee on the technology, at least).

As for selling their content aborad, that's easy enough, just use one of the other regional iTunes stores. And you can bet they will in time – the BBC makes a huge slice of its revenue from foreign sales now. The problem there might be not upsetting much more valuable deals they already have with foreign broadcasters.

[aspro]

Totally awesome! I hope they have it like the BBC radio podcasts so I can get them too!

[aspro]

Hopefully our ABC will copy them and do their own thing like they have with podcasts :)

[Babasyzygy]

Hey, as a non-UKer I'd be glad to pay the $20/month license fee if I could download the content legally. Doctor Who and Spooks alone would justify much of it, there's enough good stuff.

For the meantime, uknova will have to do.

[ntg]

Does anyone remember this story recently?

"With QuickTime 7, BBC Motion Gallery will offer previews that are approximately four times larger, with no performance degradation. (Linked progressive download QuickTime 7 specs are 720 x 579 [PAL] or 720 x 486 [NTSC], H.264/AVC codec, 2 Mbps quality.) Notes Albright, “H.264 will give us far superior quality at the same bit rates and suffers less from artifacting."

http://www.apple.com/pro/video/albright/index2.html

It may be a coincidence, but encoding all that archive material and never-before-seen footage? Sounds a bit like how music videos are turning into money-spinners...

I think there is more to this BBC/Apple deal than anyone suspects...

Nig.

[edesignuk]

I'm on the BBC iMP trial :cool: Only was finally sent the link to download the app last night, and haven't had much chance to have a play. The downloads are pretty quick though, and the quality looks good.

[Damien]

The BBC is NOT a government funded organization and does not broadcast governent information etc. The BBC makes all it's money from the Licence fee and it's commercial operations.
In fact, the BBC has a great history of kicking our government (of all colours) in the
goolies (http://cgi.peak.org/~jeremy/retort.cgi?British=goolies)!

Thank you for making this important point!!

The BBC is a excellent service and the license fee means it does have to show programs in the public interest rather than the rubbish you get elsewhere. BBC is excellent when it comes to Drama, Comedy, News and documentaries. No other provider in the world can match up to the engaging, highly polished documentaries they produce.

The BBC should offer their programming to the world at a cost. They really do add richness and quality in a increasingly bland tv industry

[superleccy]

To all the readers of this thread, please stand up.

God save the BBC
Long live our BBC
God save the Beeb

Send it your licence fee
Happy and advert-free
Long to broadcast me
God save the Beeb

You can sit down now.

[nomad01]

The downloads are pretty quick though, and the quality looks good.

Well that's all well and good but can you get Antiques Roadshow on there???? ;)

[aegisdesign]

As a UK licence payer I'd be actually quite happy if they allowed me to pay for shows instead of paying the licence fee. It would then more accurately reflect on what I wanted out of the BBC and they could change their shows accordingly although I'd hate it if they only then put on the shows that people paid for and not the less popular shows.

Plus I'd get to watch the digital channels that I still can't get because they don't broadcast to my area and almost certainly won't for another couple of years.

It'd probably work out cheaper for me too since I don't watch TV so much.

[Nik_Doof]

As of access restriction to the content, they're network is split into 2, UK and non-UK. The BBC only peer there UK-Only AS with UK net providers. As you can see here (http://support.bbc.co.uk/support/peering/), theres AS-BBC and AS-BBC-LONDON, AS-BBC-LONDON for there london and UK links, AS- BBC for the rest.

[denial]

I'm on the BBC iMP trial :cool: Only was finally sent the link to download the app last night, and haven't had much chance to have a play. The downloads are pretty quick though, and the quality looks good.

What kind of programmes are you initially trialing?

[bigandy]

restriction is a defininte - because of the licence fee. one great way to help this service would be to offer the licence to non-uk residents, giving them access and still keeping the requirement of a licence. i, personally, don't have a TV at home, just a nice HD projector hooked up to my PMG5 for watching DVDs etc. i'm not a big fan of the TV now shown in the UK, with the exception of Lost (and even that's imported :( ). i got that on DVD from the US. if there was an online service for the BBC, i'd be happy to pay the licence fee. currently i think it's overpriced for the crap you get all the time. i'm not trying to start an argument, that's just my personal view.

[Stella]

Please BBC, let people outside the UK pay a subscription to get the programmes...

.. I'd sign up immediately!

Any know where there is a feedback page for IMP?

[Neerazan]

The licence fee is a neccessary evil, and there is a lot that the BBC produces that I have no interest in, but I don't feel hard done by because of it.

I pay just under £10 a month to the BBC, and in return I get nine (or is it ten?) national radio stations, covering everything from current affairs to drama to comedy to documentary to news to sport to classical music, world music, pop music, urban music, easy listening music, and pretty much every other kind of music there is...

Plus local radio stations, plus I can listen to pretty much everything that was on the radio over the last week ehenever I want via their internet service...

And there's their websites, that are fantastic resources for all kinds of info...

And that's without even starting on the TV programming!

If people had the choice of picking to pay only for what they watched, we would see the BBC loose its public service broadcasting ethos, as it would have to produce almost entirely commercially viable programming. Niche programming on radio and TV would all but dissapear, and the depth and breadth of content that is currently available would be dramatically reduced.

And then we would have a broadcast media not unlike the US, with lowest common denominator programming that panders to as wide an audience as possible winning out (mostly) over more intelligent and challenging material.

However much people here moan about the offerings of ITV for example, the very fact that the BBC exists in its current form pushes the commercial broadcasters in the UK to keep their standards up.

Free downloads that are at least compatible with iTunes for UK residents? Great idea. Selling the same content via iTMS to other parts of the world? Great idea also.

[cheekyspanky]

Would Apple even want BBC content on the UK iTMS? Surely all it would do is detract from the actual paid content if all the BBC videos were free?

[Knox]

Would Apple even want BBC content on the UK iTMS? Surely all it would do is detract from the actual paid content if all the BBC videos were free?

The iMP system only allows programmes to be viewed for 7 days after broadcast, so, in theory, there could be a situation where it was free via iMP for 7 days, then appeared on the iTMS as a paid download after that.

[Dagless]

brilliant. a move like this from the BBC is pushing me towards getting a video enabled iPod. I cant imagine watching the new doctor who in that mini resolution on my PowerBook.

[DrK]

Would Apple even want BBC content on the UK iTMS? Surely all it would do is detract from the actual paid content if all the BBC videos were free?

I don't think Apple makes much money from content. Sure it makes some. But the point is that the more content that is available, the more attractive it makes Apple's hardware. Apple should jump at the opportunity ... and so should the BBC! Let's just hope the rumors turn out to be true.

[ebunton]

this would be a success!

[asif786]

i hate the way the article suggests the bbc are doing us a favour by giving videos out for free..seeing as they can't make a profit, what the hell else are they going to do?!

i love the bbc and most of the content they provide is fantastic. however, forcing everyone to pay their license fee (whether they want to watch or not) and then ignoring Mac users..hmm..doesn't sound very fair to me..

(and anyone who says it's coming to mac..they've grouped Mac and Linux support together. That basically means 'We don't care, so probably never')

[superleccy]

Although I haven't tried it (because I don't have a Video iPod), I am sure you can already watch loads of BBC content (and more) on your Video iPod, if you're in the UK.

Buy yourself an Elgato (http://www.elgato.com/) EyeTV (which, in my opinion, are excellent) to record content as it is broadcast. Using an Internet EPG service like tvtv.co.uk (http://www.tvtv.co.uk/), it's dead easy.

The Elagto EyeTV software already provides a handful of export format options, and if there isn't an option suitable for the Video iPod now, I am sure there will be one soon. It should at least be possible via Quicktime Pro.

Obviously, it is up to the user to use the content responsibly without breaching anti-piracy laws.

Regards
Superleccy

[superleccy]

i hate the way the article suggests the bbc are doing us a favour by giving videos out for free..seeing as they can't make a profit, what the hell else are they going to do?!

You're right, they can't make a profit. But, they still need revenue to supplement what they get from the Licence Fee. Remember they also get revenue from DVDs and CDs, and the sale of shows to other broadcasters around the globe.

i love the bbc and most of the content they provide is fantastic. however, forcing everyone to pay their license fee (whether they want to watch or not) and then ignoring Mac users..hmm..doesn't sound very fair to me.

It's just a question of practacality. Contrarty to what you may think, the BBC are not rolling in money. They are under pressure to cut spending, especially in their "new media" areas, which (rightly or otherwise) are not seen as for the benefit of the "average" licence fee payer.

To do Mac and Linux prototypes in parallel with the Windoze prototype, especially when the service is as yet unproven, would not be an expense they could justify internally.

Being a Mac user, I've got used to seeing services like this made available for Windoze long before the Macintosh. In my experience, however, my patience has always been rewarded, eventually.

Regs
Superleccy

[LagunaSol]

Bring on Top Gear!!!

[andysmith]

This would be fantastic if it comes to fruitition.

iMP is a neat idea, but it relies heavily on Microsoft's WindowsMedia DRM. If the BBC were to use Fairplay, that would allow it to work for both Windows and Mac users.

But if the programmes were available from iTMS for free, what would Apple be getting out of all of this?

[LagunaSol]

But if the programmes were available from iTMS for free, what would Apple be getting out of all of this?

The same thing they're getting from free Podcasts: more iPod buyers and iTunes users.

[stuBCN75]

You're right, they can't make a profit. But, they still need revenue to supplement what they get from the Licence Fee. Remember they also get revenue from DVDs and CDs, and the sale of shows to other broadcasters around the globe.



It's just a question of practacality. Contrarty to what you may think, the BBC are not rolling in money. They are under pressure to cut spending, especially in their "new media" areas, which (rightly or otherwise) are not seen as for the benefit of the "average" licence fee payer.

To do Mac and Linux prototypes in parallel with the Windoze prototype, especially when the service is as yet unproven, would not be an expense they could justify internally.

Being a Mac user, I've got used to seeing services like this made available for Windoze long before the Macintosh. In my experience, however, my patience has always been rewarded, eventually.

Regs
Superleccy



Actual the BBC can make a profit .. well some parts of the BBC can. They have a number of commercial divisions which exists to do just that. ie. BBC Worldwide, BBC Resources etc. The difference is that the profit gets reinvested back into the BBC for programme making and to help reduce overall costs.

BBC Worldwide already sell lots of their content to other broadcasters around the world. I imagine initially any free content would be limited to the UK only but I would not be surprised if they also, at some point, sell content via iTunes. I can't see any reason why that could not happen except for the usual copyright stuff.

They do have a HUGE archive of content, some real classic stuff. They also have one of largest film / audio archives in the world. A real treasure, especially the natural history archive. It used to be a real treat working with some of the most beautiful footage available.

I now live outside the UK. I really miss the BBC, TV is awful in Spain :(. The commercials can go on for half an hour. Watching a film can end up being an all day event ! I would rather pay a license fee than suffer painfully bad commercials.

I would happily pay for some BBC content. But as i worked for them for 5 years and paid my licence fee for many more, I feel a bit left out now :rolleyes:

[Lord Blackadder]

I'm assuming us yanks are going to get the shaft and not have access...

[CountZero]

Bring on Top Gear!!!
If you are in the US, you can already get Top Gear from the Discovery Channel.

[superleccy]

I'm assuming us yanks are going to get the shaft and not have access...

I'd like to see BBC content available to everyone outside the UK, as long as they are prepared to pay a reasonable fee.

If not, an alternative solution for you can be found Here (http://www.direct.gov.uk/Diol1/DoItOnline/DoItOnlineArticles/fs/en?CONTENT_ID=4018040&chk=3cU9ib).

:p

Regards
Superleccy

[Stella]

I'm assuming us yanks are going to get the shaft and not have access...

Apple leave the rest of the world out in their software and other offering - so you know what exclusion is like... ;-)

[bayportbob]

This feature is for UK only :confused: - digital rights management - only viewable after download for 8 days after show originally airs - only windows platform.

Not for iTunes or iPod viewing.

Darn

Would have liked to view Dr Who.

Oh well :eek:

[macros]

To all the readers of this thread, please stand up.

God save the BBC
Long live our BBC
God save the Beeb

Send it your licence fee
Happy and advert-free
Long to broadcast me
God save the Beeb

You can sit down now.

Yeah Baby! Bring "Coronation Street" to the rest of the world :rolleyes:

[Doozy]

Eventually all of the BBC shows will be available through their stock footage archive. I have used this service and the BBC reps have been very nice and got me my master quick.

I have only good thing to say about the BBC.

http://www.bbcmotiongallery.com

[Lord Blackadder]

If you are in the US, you can already get Top Gear from the Discovery Channel.

Not anymore. Discovery killed it, and there are rumors that anti-American comments by Jeremy Clarkson were the cause (I doubt it). I have heard some rumblings that it will be back in a different format (Clarkson didn't like the original way that the show was adapted) in December. Well see...but in the meantime a lot of US Top Gear fans are going P2P.

They should just air the original Top Gear episodes on BBC America, but apparently the BBC thinks we're too dumb to figure out what a "boot" and "bonnet" are, and won't be interested in hearing about Vauxhalls, "the motorway" TVRs and French cars in general. I beg to differ. ;)

[Project]

Giving "foreigners" access to the content via a fee would be an excellent way for the BBC to earn extra income. For that, the iTMS would surely be a viable distribution method?

[kerpow]

I think every Englishman living abroad would pay through the nose to have "Match of the Day" on the their iPod the next morning.

It won't happen, the BBC would never sign up to something like iTunes which openly promotes the iPod.

If anything, it'll be available on mobile phones sooner or later.

[al3000]

I would really like this, but I have a feeling it's not going to happen any time soon. I hope I'm wrong though! :D

[dubbz]

Sounds like a great idea to me. Hope they make it available to people outside the UK too for a reasonable fee.

[Lynxpro]

This isn't new news.

Its been known since the beginning of the year that the BBC was working on iMP. However, that should not stop BBC Worldwide from licensing BBC content to be sold through the iTunes Store for non-UK markets.

New Doctor Who would sell huge on iTunes here in the States considering BBC Worldwide will not allow for a US DVD release until the show airs on an American cable channel*. It would be quite a cult program if it were exclusive to iTunes for a good six months. And sales from it along with the hype would generate renewed interest from the American cable channels to pick it up even with the lofty monies BBC Worldwide is demanding.




*And yes, I know there's going to be a Canadian DVD release in February and since Canada is in R1, those discs can be played natively on American DVD players but the fact still remains that there still won't be a legitimate sales offering here in the States.

[abrooks]

I'm assuming us yanks are going to get the shaft and not have access...

Sounds familiar somehow :rolleyes:

[Project]

I think every Englishman living abroad would pay through the nose to have "Match of the Day" on the their iPod the next morning.

It won't happen, the BBC would never sign up to something like iTunes which openly promotes the iPod.

If anything, it'll be available on mobile phones sooner or later.

What about the BBC podcasts on iTunes? Sure there is no fee, but the BBC signed up to it.

[al3000]

What about the BBC podcasts on iTunes? Sure there is no fee, but the BBC signed up to it.

Excellent point, I didn't think about that.

[Project]

Wait a minute - do International people have access to the BBC podcasts???

[Fitzcaraldo]

I'd like to see BBC content available to everyone outside the UK, as long as they are prepared to pay a reasonable fee.

If not, an alternative solution for you can be found Here (http://www.direct.gov.uk/Diol1/DoItOnline/DoItOnlineArticles/fs/en?CONTENT_ID=4018040&chk=3cU9ib).

:p

Regards
Superleccy

I imagine it will be the likes of me, who have paid a uk licence for 17 odd years, and then moving back home, will be unable to access what I have paid for?

[Project]

Hmm, probably are available because I know a ton of Americans who listen to BBC radio shows up to a week after they were broadcast, or can listen live via bbc.co.uk/radio

This brings the question - why do they get the content for free, yet im threatened with jail or a £1,000 fine for not paying?

[davey-nb]

Yeah Baby! Bring "Coronation Street" to the rest of the world :rolleyes:
Corrie's on ITV, not BBC.
There're almost 40 years of Corrie archives, could be a goldmine!
Tanya Turner is joining the Rovers!
Will she keep her 4" french nails?
Will she pull blokes and pints?
Crikey, great writers there.

[brendan67]

hey

does anyone know how you get an invite from BBC to trial
the IMP service. i'm a uk licence holder

regards:(

[Mitch1984]

Frank Butcher on yer iPod on the Train, yay!

[Lord Blackadder]

Sounds familiar somehow :rolleyes:

Well, I guess we're even then. :D

[asif786]

Frank Butcher on yer iPod on the Train, yay!

dude, you just made the whole idea a lot less appealing :p

[ensee]

The Indies report seems about right. I'm doing the trial at the moment at it's version 0.9.5... so it's almost there. The service is fine but download speeds vary, the interface feels very forced (browsing through films for instance is impossible, you have to search by channel & genre & date even - it's a pain).

You need Windows Media player 9 series and uses a ridiculous DRM which expires a week after the program has been put online and has to go online to check licenses every time you want to watch a program. So it won't work on your iPod - maybe the mac version could counter this. You can however play it on a smartphone or pda - running windows mobile mind you.

It's fine and goes some way to counter illegal p2p but it's as good as you'd get. The BBC can't just put out the shows via RSS since they use geographical IP stuff to make sure you're in the UK.

I doubt the mac version will roll out on the same day as the Windows iMP though. When it does, the package is good though - the Beeb put some production into this though: they package some trailers for new shows (like iTunes New music podcast) with their own idents at the end - "Now showing on imp". There are watermarked logos at the corner of every show with the channel they were originally broadcast on which doesn't even happen on TV.

That's weird though, it' not pronounced eye em pee but imp.


But spooks when yo want it is great!

[Analog Kid]

The BBC is NOT a government funded organization and does not broadcast governent information etc. The BBC makes all it's money from the Licence fee and it's commercial operations.
In fact, the BBC has a great history of kicking our government (of all colours) in the
goolies (http://cgi.peak.org/~jeremy/retort.cgi?British=goolies)!
I didn't say it was a propaganda machine, nor did I say it wasn't sufficiently independent. It's precisely that level of independence that reflects well on Britian, IMO.

As far as I can tell though, the License fee is essentially a tax established by law and enforced by the government which makes the BBC government funded.

[kenaustus]

The BBC has long been one of the best networks around and US networks have long copied their shows and made a ton of money doing it.

I personally would like to see an affordable annual license (like around $39) for us poor souls outside of the UK that would let us download programs. It would throw some money at the BBC, be a mile ahead of BBC America, and max out the advantages of Quicktime for many users - using either Macs or PCs.

[andysmith]

The same thing they're getting from free Podcasts: more iPod buyers and iTunes users.
But if the BBC were to use iTunes to integrate DRM into the files (Fairplay), then the files would need to come from Apple's server. Unlike podcasts, that's one hell of a lot of bandwidth for something that isn't being charged for. (although podcasts aren't hosted by Apple)

I'm not sure Apple would go along with it - the advertising they'd get via the BBC would be minimal (I'm sure OFCOM would have something to say otherwise).

[firebox]

Bring on Top Gear!!!

YEAH!!! heh, that's the first thing i thought when i saw this!...probably quite sad :)

still, at least it's not eastenders! :p

[min_t]

Man, I hope it becomes available worldwide. I'm tired of reality tv.

I hope itunes is allowed to serve them up.

[al3000]

I don't know if this is related, but BBC Radio 1 is available in the USA via Sirius satellite radio..although I think there is a subscription charge for it?

[andysmith]

I don't know if this is related, but BBC Radio 1 is available in the USA via Sirius satellite radio..although I think there is a subscription charge for it?
You can stream all the BBC Radio channels anyway - and I don't think there's any geographic restrictions. Crap quality though, mind.

[al3000]

You can stream all the BBC Radio channels anyway - and I don't think there's any geographic restrictions. Crap quality though, mind.

I know that, but I think that through sirius in the US, radio 1 can be received in peoples cars, etc. I could be wrong though.

[Sirus The Virus]

This would be great! BBC always has good programing.

[littlejim]

I didn't say it was a propaganda machine, nor did I say it wasn't sufficiently independent. It's precisely that level of independence that reflects well on Britian, IMO.
I know you didn't say that ... but you did say the BBC was 'a government broadcast' which is incorrect.
As far as I can tell though, the License fee is essentially a tax established by law and enforced by the government which makes the BBC government funded.
If you don't own a TV (or VCR) then you don't pay the Licence fee in the same way as if you don't own a car, you don't pay Road Tax - or you don't fly then you don't pay Airport fees.

http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/information/index.jsp

The BBC makes a fraction of it's money through the Licence fee. It relies more heavily on sales of it's programmes, Books, magazines etc. for it's income.

[LagunaSol]

But if the BBC were to use iTunes to integrate DRM into the files (Fairplay), then the files would need to come from Apple's server. Unlike podcasts, that's one hell of a lot of bandwidth for something that isn't being charged for. (although podcasts aren't hosted by Apple)

I'm not sure Apple would go along with it - the advertising they'd get via the BBC would be minimal (I'm sure OFCOM would have something to say otherwise).

I'd like to see a couple of things: 1) much higher resolution video files, which could be enabled by 2) Apple using some sort of P2P distribution like the BBC is using. This would pretty much preclude DRM (unless, perhaps, you get some sort of a "secure tag" directly from the Apple server, which allows you to view the video content you subsequently get through P2P), but the need for DRM might mostly be negated by a) the huge file sizes and b) reasonable pricing. Someone needs to step out and say "The way to fight piracy is to make content convenient and affordable." (Actually, Steve Jobs did say this, but he was still shackled with DRM).

The BBC is as good a candidate as any to make this bold, revolutionary move. And I wouldn't mind paying a buck a show. The studios rake in millions from viewers just like me and don't even have to pay for the bandwidth as we're doing all the heavy lifting through P2P. What's not to like?

Pirates will always be pirates. The trick is to keep the average consumer from becoming a pirate: you do this by putting all the content they (we) want out there and putting a reasonable price on it. When is the entertainment business going to learn this? The iTunes Music Store has proven that people will pay if the content is there, is easy to get to and use, and the price is right.

The current video model through iTunes is a joke: $1.99 for VHS quality of regular broadcast programs we can all watch for free anyway??? Give me a break. I'm sure it's just a trial balloon, but I'm not jumping on board until the quality and selection go way, way up and the price goes down.

[Tino Latino]

I think it's very unlikely the BBC will offer any of its TV for free via iTunes.
They might, however, see it as a decent moneymaking scheme if they could sell their shows that way. After all, it's no different to them selling DVDs of their programming, is it? (And who isn't going to buy the Extras DVD this Christmas?)
The IMP experiment is a red herring - it's aimed at setting up an alternative distribution service for licence-fee payers only. Not only that, but it's not going to work on Macs anyway.

[riversky]

My understanding from an associate in the UK is the BBC is using Microsoft's WMV 10 Codec and some form of DRM that does not allow non UK folks to access the content.

Can anyone actually on the trial confirm this?

[bketchum]

No, it's the equivalent to putting NPR or PBS programs up for free. The BBC is not like HBO-- it's essentially a government funded broadcast. I think they still have a shortwave service (or did that get closed down a couple years ago) which goes well beyond their subscriber range.

As a government broadcast it serves two purposes: information/entertanment and public relations. It's mostly the news service that extends beyond the UK, and to the extent that people respect the BBC that goodwill carries over to their view of Britain.

Notice their website has no ads? That alone makes it a great resource, in my book.

I think it would be great if they do this, even if it is just the news broadcasts. I'd be an avid subscriber.
The BBC partnered with HBO to produce Rome. The BBC also produces the latest Doctor Who series. And, of course, they have the longest running daytime soap - Coronation Street. The British broadcaster has few equals for producing quality documentaries. And the comedy that comes from BBC is smashing. I'm only scraping the surface. What other cool things do they do?

[Surreal]

i would pay for coupling. no doubt.

edit: but not if it expired

[davey-nb]

The BBC have the longest running daytime soap - Coronation Street.
Yeah, no.
Please pay attention (see #77).:p

[Neerazan]

Yeah, no.
Please pay attention (see #77).:p

Actually, 'The Archers' is the longest running soap in the UK, and the BBC make it (but it's on Radio 4) :)

[littlejim]

The Archers (http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A583346) is the worlds longest running radio soap opera.

[Analog Kid]

I don't want to be petty, but I do pay attention to where my news comes from and I think I'm right here...

I know you didn't say that ... but you did say the BBC was 'a government broadcast' which is incorrect.
"The BBC is run in the interests of its viewers and listeners. Twelve Governors act as trustees of the public interest and regulate the BBC. They are appointed by the Queen on advice from ministers."

"The BBC is established under Royal Charter. The current Charter runs until 2006. A separate Agreement, accompanying the Charter, recognises the BBC's editorial independence and sets out its public obligations."

How the BBC is Run (http://www.bbc.co.uk/info/running/)

Anything that is paid for by taxes and overseen by Governors tapped by the Queen is government run. They have a charter that must be renewed periodically ensuring accountability. It may be a nobly independent voice within the government, but it's still run by the government.

If you don't own a TV (or VCR) then you don't pay the Licence fee in the same way as if you don't own a car, you don't pay Road Tax - or you don't fly then you don't pay Airport fees.
And if you don't make money you don't pay income tax. Even if I didn't drive and didn't pay gas taxes, I'd still say the highway system was government run.

Our airports are mostly private, but the air traffic control is government run which was made very obvious when Reagan fired the lot for a labor strike.

The BBC makes a fraction of it's money through the Licence fee. It relies more heavily on sales of it's programmes, Books, magazines etc. for it's income.
If it's a fraction, it's a fraction very close to 1:

(From the 2005 Governors' Report) (http://www.bbcgovernors.co.uk/annreport/report05/BBC_94-135.pdf)
Income from License Fees-- 2940.3 million
Other Income-- 23.5 million
Total Income-- 2963.8 million

Percent of income from license fees-- 99.21%


This is in contrast to how NPR is financed, for example:
"...between one percent to two percent of NPR's annual budget -- comes from competitive grants sought by NPR from federally funded organizations, such as the Corporation for Public Broadcasting, National Science Foundation and the National Endowment for the Arts."
How NPR is Supported (http://www.npr.org/about/privatesupport.html)

PBS gets about 15-16% of it's revenue from the federal goverment.
PBS 2004 Financial Highlights (http://www.pbs.org/aboutpbs/content/annualreport/2004/FY04FinHighlightsPublished.pdf)

[Eniregnat]

Dr. Who... oh yea.

I won't justify paying for a TV or for cable or a satalight service, so perhaps this will allow me to do more than just hear the BBC news.

I can't realy think of any negatives. It shouldn't compete with the BBCs DVD sales.

If PBS did the same in the states, I wonder if people would be more williing to donate?

[neildmitchell]

BBC! Sweetie Darlings, I Need My Abfab, Pronto! Darlings!!
MMMM Is that all right with you, MMMM, Sweetie, darling, Sweetie Darling?
Bubbles, wheres Bubbles?
PATSY!

[Truffy]

The BBC is ... essentially a government funded broadcast.B.S.!

The BBC is funded through the licence fee that's extorted from every UK TV owner, whether they watch the BBC or not. The government may run (or ruin) it, but that's not the same as funding it.

You then contradicted yourself later on :p

[winmacguy]

Most of the content already available through the BBC uses Real's video technology. It would be a shame if a large-scale video service like this, no matter how many people it is available to, required RealPlayer. I'd like to think they're almost extinct by now.
The BBC has done or is in the process of doing a large deal with Apple for Apple hardware to run and manage its programming content and provide online content for download which will mean using QT. The BBC wants to digitize all of their analoge libraries and archives on to Xserves. They will also be incorporating FCP into their software arsenal. This was reported on Macworld UK a few months back. I think I posted the link back then on Macbytes:)

[BGil]

The BBC already offers a lot of content online via Akimbo. The Akimbo service is now part of Windows XP Media Center Edition. Many shows are at a cost but a lot of others are free.

http://www.akimbo.com/press_rel_101405.html

DIGITALLIFE CONFERENCE, NEW YORK, N.Y. – Oct. 14, 2005 – Akimbo™ Systems will demonstrate its latest service, Akimbo for Media Center, to consumers at DigitalLife in New York’s Jacob Javits Center this weekend. Later this month, Akimbo’s award-winning Internet to television video-on-demand service will be available in two ways, on the Akimbo Player and on Microsoft Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005. Akimbo will support Update Rollup 2 for Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005, including streaming high definition video to the Xbox 360 video game and entertainment system as a media extender. The Akimbo Service will be available through the Online Spotlight feature in Media Center Edition 2005, where consumers can view all the programming available and sign up for a free two-week trial subscription.

Offering programming from more than 150 distinctive providers and over 75 categories of video content, Akimbo is a complement to existing broadcast, cable and satellite services – bridging the gap between broadcast and broadband. Akimbo’s collection of on-demand video includes well-known names like BBC, National Geographic, Discovery, and the Hallmark Channel, as well as hard-to-find specialty offerings, such as independent film from IFILM and Underground Films. At DigitalLife, for the first time, Akimbo will be showing Major League Baseball playoff games delivered the next morning in a ten minute condensed version to Akimbo subscribers. In addition, Akimbo will preview high-definition video capabilities that are enabled by Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005.

“Media Center is a perfect platform for Akimbo and a great example of how TV and the Internet are combining,” said Joshua Goldman, CEO of Akimbo. “With Akimbo’s collection of over 5,000 titles from 150 partners, we can serve interests such as foreign films and TV series, education, health and fitness, collections of popular TV shows and much more. Media Center owners will now have access to thousands of new shows and can experience the freedom of being in charge of what they watch.”

Akimbo’s proprietary “Queue and View™” technology delivers an onscreen program guide filled with channels, information, previews and viewer options, including full parental controls. Subscribers use the Akimbo Guide to select programs they want to download to view later at their convenience. Each time Akimbo subscribers turn on their TVs high quality videos are ready and waiting so that there’s always something good to watch.

“Akimbo Service for Online Spotlight provides a new way for consumers to get a wealth of entertainment programmed to suit their interests,” said Dave Mendlen, director of Windows Consumer Marketing at Microsoft Corp. “We’re pleased to work with them to offer consumers new ways to conveniently discover and enjoy new digital content using Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005.”

According to a recent report from Endpoint Technologies, Media Center shipments will double to about five million units this year and double again in 2006. Akimbo has tailored its interface to take advantage of the Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005 television interface, with no additional hardware required. Because Media Center 2005 is able to stream content to Xbox and Xbox 360 consoles acting as Media Center Extenders, game players can view Akimbo programs anywhere in their house. Whether they receive the Akimbo Service from a Media Center PC or an Akimbo Player, subscribers need to have a broadband connection and a home network to receive programming.


---------------

Their channel lineup is very impressive:
http://my.akimbo.com/browse_channel.aspx

[superleccy]

Anything that is paid for by taxes and overseen by Governors tapped by the Queen is government run. They have a charter that must be renewed periodically ensuring accountability. It may be a nobly independent voice within the government, but it's still run by the government.

The "independence" of any broadcast network or news channel can only be judged relatively. Yes, the BBC has government connections, but at least they are plain for all to see. By comparison, how many so-called "independent" media organisations are heavily biased by the commercial and political entities that fund them? If you posed that question to Noam Chomsky or Michael Moore, their answer would probably be "most or all of them".

The "charter" is a double edge sword. On one hand, it does means the BBC is controlled by the government to a certain extent (eg, how shows like EastEnders and Grange Hill often watch like morality lectures on contemporary social issues). But on the other hand, the charter protects the BBC from the government, particularly in terms of journalistic impartiality. In recent years, the strongest and most powerful critic of the British government has been the BBC. The government occasionally tries to respond by trying to control, gag or discipline the BBC, but the government always just ends up looking stupid. Go BBC!!!

Furthermore, the BBC is despised by the for-profit media organisations in the UK, because the BBC has significantly better content and better distribution, and does not have to suck up to sources of private money. The BBC is seen as grossly unfair competition, and there are many large corporations in the UK that would love to see the BBC shut down, or at least reduced to the status of (say) "another ITV". This actually gives the Beeb a bit of cool "rebel status". Go BBC again!!!

So, I dispute your conclusion that the BBC is "run by the government", even if only to a certain extent. In fact, I'd argue that the BBC is one of the most independent mass-media organisations in the world... but hey, I'm biased too.

Regards
Superleccy

[littlejim]

Anything that is paid for by taxes and overseen by Governors tapped by the Queen is government run. They have a charter that must be renewed periodically ensuring accountability. It may be a nobly independent voice within the government, but it's still run by the government.

All I wanted to make clear is that the BBC isn't a government mouthpiece which your wording did imply ( ' goverment broadcast' ).
Wether the BBC is 'goverment run' is up for grabs : yes the government does appoint the governors every 4 years (although this will change into a 'trust') but on a day to day basis, the goverment has no say in the BBC output.

However, the BBC World Service (of which you did refer to in your original post) IS directly funded by the Government to the tune of £250 million or so, so you are dead right there. I've learnt something!

Now, wether the Licence Fee is a tax or a Fee is an argument that has raged for a long long time over here! My opinion is that because the fee is collected privately and goes directly to the BBC (unlike the Road Tax in the UK which, I believe, isn't set aside for the upkeep of the road system) then it is a fee and not a tax. But it's a fine line!


If it's a fraction, it's a fraction very close to 1:

(From the 2005 Governors' Report) (http://www.bbcgovernors.co.uk/annreport/report05/BBC_94-135.pdf)
Income from License Fees-- 2940.3 million
Other Income-- 23.5 million
Total Income-- 2963.8 million

Percent of income from license fees-- 99.21%


Your financial figures are, I believe, incorrect - the BBC also made £625 million from Commercial ventures 2004-2005 but I agree that my word 'fraction' was very misleading!

http://www.bbcgovernors.co.uk/annreport/report05/BBC_94-135.pdf

[Analog Kid]

The rest of this post is worth reading, but I clipped it because, well, people can read it a few posts back...

So, I dispute your conclusion that the BBC is "run by the government", even if only to a certain extent. In fact, I'd argue that the BBC is one of the most independent mass-media organisations in the world... but hey, I'm biased too.

People seem to be reading different angles into my "run by the government" statement... My point was about whether the BBC can distribute their programs over the Net and to draw a distinction between the motivations behind the BBC and how it is run and the motivations behind a cable broadcast and how it is run.

To the question of independence, I don't believe it's a relative measure-- you are either completely independent or completely controlled or somewhere in between but saying that CNN is independent relative to Xinhua is hardly a commendation.

I wasn't trying to start some jingoistic flame war about the relative merits of different media sources. Commercial funding has at least as many pitfalls as public funding not least of which is that companies tend to actually pay attention to where their money goes. Personally I like like the voluntary public contribution model of organizations such as NPR, but the BBC model seems to work reasonably well. I like the radio station I listen to because it's a mix of NPR, PRI and BBC broadcasts.

I've pointed out that I think the BBC seems to maintain their independence and that I'd be an avid subscriber to their news broadcasts if they were available to me. Any bias I see, I can just as easily ascribe to the BBC as to the government. "Government run" didn't mean "propoganda machine"-- it's possible to be chartered by the government and remain independent.

"Government run" is different than "party run" even if there are very few examples of this distinction.

Though this wasn't my original point, I do think it's important to "consider the source" with any information you receive. None the less, my experience leads me to believe that the BBC is one of the premier media organizations of the world-- which, again, is why I hope their funding model and organizing structure allow me to gain access to their content even though I don't pay a stinkin' license fee to decode the radiation I'm bombarded with anyway (and which is rather attenuated in the case of the BBC).

[Analog Kid]

All I wanted to make clear is that the BBC isn't a government mouthpiece which your wording did imply ( ' goverment broadcast' ).
Wether the BBC is 'goverment run' is up for grabs : yes the government does appoint the governors every 4 years (although this will change into a 'trust') but on a day to day basis, the goverment has no say in the BBC output.
Understood-- I wasn't thinking beyond the funding and distribution model when I made the comment...

Now, wether the Licence Fee is a tax or a Fee is an argument that has raged for a long long time over here! My opinion is that because the fee is collected privately and goes directly to the BBC (unlike the Road Tax in the UK which, I believe, isn't set aside for the upkeep of the road system) then it is a fee and not a tax. But it's a fine line!
Yeah, Americans have had a few disagreements with your govenment in the past regarding what exactly constitutes a "tax"... ;)


Your financial figures are, I believe, incorrect - the BBC also made £625 million from Commercial ventures 2004-2005 but I agree that my word 'fraction' was very misleading!
Oops! You read further than I did! Thought I'd found the numbers in the earlier table... I'll grant you the 16.3% from other sources.

[Bailey]

Hmm, probably are available because I know a ton of Americans who listen to BBC radio shows up to a week after they were broadcast, or can listen live via bbc.co.uk/radio

This brings the question - why do they get the content for free, yet im threatened with jail or a £1,000 fine for not paying?

The simple answer is:

You're not. You don't need a TV licence to listen to the radio. If you only have a radio, and no TV, then it's free for you too. And that's why the podcasts exist.

On another note, the BBC is unlikely to partner with iTMS, not unless there is at least one competitor that will offer the same service too.

[GrandMan]

The DRM and/or the iMP main program will be cracked in a matter of days of a public release, making the content available to all.

[nborders]

Why, oh why don't we have a TV tax in the US!!!!

PBS, is our closest, and it is by far the best TV on . . . TV. Lets hope they start adding some of their programming to their "members". interesting to see how they figure that out.

~n