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Finally Got Windows 8 on rMBP Huge Difference Gaming

R

renosausage

macrumors regular
Original poster
Sep 22, 2012
158
0
I posted a thread earlier about how terrible the rMBP handled Witcher 2even at the lowest setting.

I was only getting 20 fps even after resetting smc and pram

I even installed the entire OS hoping to get a speed bump, but unfortunately came up with nothing.

So in the end I asked for a refund through Apple finally decided to install Windows 8 and try it out.

First off, I sorta like Windows 8, but I'm not in the Microsoft Ecosystem and I really don't feel like having to sign up and connect myself with every feature that Windows offers, so I didn't even waste my time creating a Microsoft Account.

I downloaded the latest drivers from Nvidia and try out Call of Duty MW3

Let me just say that this game runs perfectly even on the highest settings at 2880 by 1800.

Its completely unbelievable and I am so excited to spend tomorrow evening going through the campaign.

The rMBP has surprised me and I cannot wait to try out Crysis 3 or Battlefield 3.

As far as Witcher 2 goes, I got around 34 fps at the highest setting. WAY MORE than the native Mac Version.

I wish this could somehow be solved, I love the Mac OS and I hate having to use Bootcamp when I want to play a game.

I now wish I would have bought the 768 GB SSD instead of my little 256.

If anyone has any tips to maximize space on Windows 8, please let me know.

Also if anyone has any tips on gaming and how to get the most out of rMPB, I would appreciate the help.

Thank You Macrumors Forum!
 
ajcadoo

ajcadoo

macrumors 6502
Sep 17, 2011
276
132
San Diego, CA
Question is: do you get 60FPS in CoD? Because that is the native frame rate. Anything less than 60 in CoD, is not a true CoD experience.
 
R

renosausage

macrumors regular
Original poster
Sep 22, 2012
158
0
ajcadoo said:
Question is: do you get 60FPS in CoD? Because that is the native frame rate. Anything less than 60 in CoD, is not a true CoD experience.
Click to expand...

No I'm getting about 43 in 2880 by 1880, but it I bring the graphics down to med I can hit 56 to 60.

At 1440 by 900 I am getting above 60 all the time on Max settings
 
F

Fouracre44

macrumors regular
Jun 6, 2012
114
0
Man, thats awesome. I love the witcher 2, however I prefer gaming on consoles. But that's sick! Happy playing man, I am yet to play the witcher 2.
 
O

omenatarhuri

macrumors 6502a
Feb 9, 2010
897
823
This is something I've hoped Apple would address, but I suppose they don't see really see OS X as a gaming platform.

Civ V is almost unplayable in OS X and runs perfect in Win8.
 
fatlardo

fatlardo

macrumors 6502
Mar 15, 2011
333
36
R

renosausage

macrumors regular
Original poster
Sep 22, 2012
158
0
omenatarhuri said:
This is something I've hoped Apple would address, but I suppose they don't see really see OS X as a gaming platform.

Civ V is almost unplayable in OS X and runs perfect in Win8.
Click to expand...

I agree with you, I'm I don't have a computer science degree, but what is it that Apple is missing here?

Is it the driver support?

Or is it because most games are originally made for PC?

Whats the hold up?

----------
dastinger said:
I use this guide to optimize and free space under Windows 8. Don't mess with what you don't know obviously but most of the things are safe to do. The guy who made the guide explains it all:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1240779/seans-windows-8-install-optimization-guide-for-ssds-hdds

PS: I don't go through all the steps btw. Again, read and choose what to do or not. And be aware of the different steps for HDDs and SSDs.
Click to expand...

Thanks!, this is exactly what I've been looking for. :D
 
O

omenatarhuri

macrumors 6502a
Feb 9, 2010
897
823
renosausage said:
I agree with you, I'm I don't have a computer science degree, but what is it that Apple is missing here?

Is it the driver support?

Or is it because most games are originally made for PC?

Whats the hold up?
Click to expand...

I do have a CS degree, but don't really know the specifics to this particular problem.

I'd suppose it's that games are most often primarily made for the PC, so their performance is optimized for DirectX and WinX86/x64 environment. Some games suffer more from this (Cider ports) and others less, but from my experience, all big titles do suffer a performance hit more or less.

Drivers would obviously be another thing here and I would speculate that AMD/Nvidia are investing far more in optimizing their drivers for Windows than OS X.
 
dusk007

dusk007

macrumors 68040
Dec 5, 2009
3,411
104
Crysis 3 and BF 3 are a completely different thing though than MW3. MW3 ist easy on hardware. If that doesn't run well on a Mac the Mac Version is just crap. BF3 and Crysis 3 will even in Windows be tough but run well enough on a 650M.

The problem is that OSX like Linux just doesn't have any Gaming history.
For Windows there are the Tools. There is DirectX in which Microsoft focuses a lot of work into making developing games easier, making the driver stack efficient and providing all the features needed. OpenGL can in theory do all the same stuff but it is a mess. There isn't the same know how of developers available as for the DirectX community.

OSX is also x86/x64 there is no difference and a compiler takes care of the important stuff.
Drivers in Windows get a lot of attention by Nvidia and AMD. Consumer graphics are optimized in firmware for DirectX while OpenGL is the mind of those companies only for professional apps and the Tesla/Firestream pro GPUs. They optimize the Windows drivers and tweak them with specific profiles for even individual games or fix bugs that affect specific games. Sometimes its workarounds for bad code.
On OSX the graphic driver never changes unless there are some new OS version. The bootcamp driver is also always the same which is why it is prudent to install a newer driver from laptopvideo2go.com for the best gaming experience.
AMD/Nvidia invest practically nothing into OSX drivers. Quite a bit of that code comes from Apple and they optimize for their animations and GUI not for 3D games like similar Direct3D API calls that game developers need.

This whole driver issue is a downside and OSX will remain significantly behind Windows performance. But that would only be 30% or something. Some games like Civ V are a complete fail on OSX.d
The problem here is that to produce a decent game that performs well on OSX you need more money. Fewer experts available, no help like Microsoft provides it with Tools and DirectX. At the same time the Mac gaming market is small and not really worth the trouble unless it is a huge thing like Starcraft or Diablo 3.
Most games for OSX are just really poor ports.

Games are either developed for Windows or Consoles. Ports from the Console like GTA 4 are even pretty bad on Windows in resource usage. Never is a game done for OSX first. There are tools to automate some of the porting but as one can see with Civ V the results are less then stellar.

Bottom line the hold up is everywhere. It is drivers, it is 3D API, it is money, it is no optimization on no part. They do what they have to to make some money of the Mac platform. They no anybody who actually cares about gaming will use Windows anyway. The "hold up" is here to stay for a long time. It is more likely that Windows looses against consoles than that OSX ever catches up.

Basically in respect to gaming.
Consoles have Microsoft and Sony. Windows has Microsoft, Nvidia and AMD. Both have a huge market and lots of developers focusing on the platforms.
OSX has Apple and Apple doesn't care.


Apple would have to pay attention to its 3D API the way MS does it with DirectX. Not just do what they need for themselves. It is the same with QuickSync and many of the new Intel features. You get SDKs from Intel on Windows. Apple even uses some features themselves in Facetime but they don't let Developers use them at all in that case. In case of 3D API they would also have to make it easier too. They only do that for iOS but not OSX gaming.
They would have to focus more on the drivers and the hardest part attract more people to the platform to actually do more than poor auto pilot ports.

@ gametime10
No. Windows 8 and 7 are virtually the same. There is no real discernible difference in performance. They get pretty much the same API support and have effectively the same drivers in use. The 3D graphics stack changed between XP and Vista but has stayed the same since. Only changes I know of have been in 2D stuff but that doesn't matter. Also reducing secondary load while gaming but that yields you small single digit performance increases at best.

Saving space on Windows. Just disable hibernation. You don't need it and depending on RAM size it needs lots of space.
admin cmd prompt
powercfg -h off
 
R

renosausage

macrumors regular
Original poster
Sep 22, 2012
158
0
dusk007 said:
Crysis 3 and BF 3 are a completely different thing though than MW3. MW3 ist easy on hardware. If that doesn't run well on a Mac the Mac Version is just crap. BF3 and Crysis 3 will even in Windows be tough but run well enough on a 650M.

The problem is that OSX like Linux just doesn't have any Gaming history.
For Windows there are the Tools. There is DirectX in which Microsoft focuses a lot of work into making developing games easier, making the driver stack efficient and providing all the features needed. OpenGL can in theory do all the same stuff but it is a mess. There isn't the same know how of developers available as for the DirectX community.

OSX is also x86/x64 there is no difference and a compiler takes care of the important stuff.
Drivers in Windows get a lot of attention by Nvidia and AMD. Consumer graphics are optimized in firmware for DirectX while OpenGL is the mind of those companies only for professional apps and the Tesla/Firestream pro GPUs. They optimize the Windows drivers and tweak them with specific profiles for even individual games or fix bugs that affect specific games. Sometimes its workarounds for bad code.
On OSX the graphic driver never changes unless there are some new OS version. The bootcamp driver is also always the same which is why it is prudent to install a newer driver from laptopvideo2go.com for the best gaming experience.
AMD/Nvidia invest practically nothing into OSX drivers. Quite a bit of that code comes from Apple and they optimize for their animations and GUI not for 3D games like similar Direct3D API calls that game developers need.

This whole driver issue is a downside and OSX will remain significantly behind Windows performance. But that would only be 30% or something. Some games like Civ V are a complete fail on OSX.d
The problem here is that to produce a decent game that performs well on OSX you need more money. Fewer experts available, no help like Microsoft provides it with Tools and DirectX. At the same time the Mac gaming market is small and not really worth the trouble unless it is a huge thing like Starcraft or Diablo 3.
Most games for OSX are just really poor ports.

Games are either developed for Windows or Consoles. Ports from the Console like GTA 4 are even pretty bad on Windows in resource usage. Never is a game done for OSX first. There are tools to automate some of the porting but as one can see with Civ V the results are less then stellar.

Bottom line the hold up is everywhere. It is drivers, it is 3D API, it is money, it is no optimization on no part. They do what they have to to make some money of the Mac platform. They no anybody who actually cares about gaming will use Windows anyway. The "hold up" is here to stay for a long time. It is more likely that Windows looses against consoles than that OSX ever catches up.

Basically in respect to gaming.
Consoles have Microsoft and Sony. Windows has Microsoft, Nvidia and AMD. Both have a huge market and lots of developers focusing on the platforms.
OSX has Apple and Apple doesn't care.


Apple would have to pay attention to its 3D API the way MS does it with DirectX. Not just do what they need for themselves. It is the same with QuickSync and many of the new Intel features. You get SDKs from Intel on Windows. Apple even uses some features themselves in Facetime but they don't let Developers use them at all in that case. In case of 3D API they would also have to make it easier too. They only do that for iOS but not OSX gaming.
They would have to focus more on the drivers and the hardest part attract more people to the platform to actually do more than poor auto pilot ports.

@ gametime10
No. Windows 8 and 7 are virtually the same. There is no real discernible difference in performance. They get pretty much the same API support and have effectively the same drivers in use. The 3D graphics stack changed between XP and Vista but has stayed the same since. Only changes I know of have been in 2D stuff but that doesn't matter. Also reducing secondary load while gaming but that yields you small single digit performance increases at best.

Saving space on Windows. Just disable hibernation. You don't need it and depending on RAM size it needs lots of space.
admin cmd prompt
powercfg -h off
Click to expand...

WOW! This makes a lot of sense, Thank you so much!
 
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