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gadget123
Jun 3, 2013, 05:52 PM
Well these dramatic changes Johnny I've is proposing may not be as good. I wonder how many Apple fans will regret him leaving?

How much was he involved with the first iphone OS?

FSMBP
Jun 3, 2013, 05:54 PM
You're judging "Johnny Ive's" changes before ANYTHING has even been unveiled?

Mind. Blown.

gadget123
Jun 3, 2013, 05:57 PM
You're judging "Johnny Ive's" changes before ANYTHING has even been unveiled?

Mind. Blown.

If it was that good the leaks would confirm it being an amazing new OS. Instead they use the words flat which usually means boring something Apple fans associate with Android devices. Apple seem keen on low end devices so the new OS might be ideal for the new cheap plastic iphone.

Premium and innovation seem to be gone.

irDigital0l
Jun 3, 2013, 05:58 PM
Well these dramatic changes Johnny I've is proposing may not be as good. I wonder how many Apple fans will regret him leaving?

How much was he involved with the first iphone OS?

He didn't get to choose if he wanted to stay or not. He was FIRED by Tim Cook.

He was heavily involved in iPhone OS as he came from NeXT which was software that turned to OS X and OS X was used for iPhone OS.

gadget123
Jun 3, 2013, 05:58 PM
Also the maps fiasco was blown way put of proportion. A flat boring IOS will upset far more people.

irDigital0l
Jun 3, 2013, 05:59 PM
Also the maps fiasco was blown way put of proportion. A flat boring IOS will upset far more people.

He wasn't fired for Maps. The Maps apology was just the last straw.

gadget123
Jun 3, 2013, 06:02 PM
He didn't get to choose if he wanted to stay or not. He was FIRED by Tim Cook.

He was heavily involved in iPhone OS as he came from NeXT which was software that turned to OS X and OS X was used for iPhone OS.

He should never have been fired.

All goes back to would the Apple of old days have apologised about the maps thing? I doubt it.

I'm sure I read some people in Apple liked the 7" galaxy tablet so pushed jobs to make an ipad mini. Perhaps there's many within Apple using Android devices pushing them to copy Android rather than innovate?

AHDuke99
Jun 3, 2013, 06:02 PM
I think we will regret being happy that he was let go, but I'm not entirely sure yet. He was a Jobs protige and seemed to be good for apple. I was a bit uneasy when they let him go. Ive excelled in hardware design when Jobs was around, but struggled when Schully was in charge. But I'm not judging until we see what iOS 7 brings next week.

gadget123
Jun 3, 2013, 06:04 PM
He wasn't fired for Maps. The Maps apology was just the last straw.

Again Siri did improve.

----------

People should appetite the good work the guy done. So he made a few mistakes with maps and Siri but I think Apple is worse off without him.

irDigital0l
Jun 3, 2013, 06:04 PM
I'm sure I read some people in Apple liked the 7" galaxy tablet so pushed jobs to make an ipad mini. Perhaps there's many within Apple using Android devices pushing them to copy Android rather than innovate?

They didn't like a 7'' tablet, but Phil tried to convince Steve that a 7'' tablet had a market.

Flat design doesn't equal Android and how is Apple not innovating?

gadget123
Jun 3, 2013, 06:05 PM
They didn't like a 7'' tablet, but Phil tried to convince Steve that a 7'' tablet had a market.

Flat design doesn't equal Android and how is Apple not innovating?

The ipad mini is cool its the design Apple should have made the 9" one.

However ipad mini for me shouldn't have been released.

irDigital0l
Jun 3, 2013, 06:08 PM
Again Siri did improve.

----------

People should appetite the good work the guy done. So he made a few mistakes with maps and Siri but I think Apple is worse off without him.

Siri was advertised as a beta product and there wasn't any Google, Samsung counterparts.

To many, Apple Maps was worse than Google Maps which was replaced. Windows phones Nokia, Android phones have Google, etc. Apple Maps should have been on par with that level but clearly that was impossible.

----------

The ipad mini is cool its the design Apple should have made the 9" one.

However ipad mini for me shouldn't have been released.

Why?

If there's a market, Apple makes more money.

MattInOz
Jun 3, 2013, 06:56 PM
He should never have been fired.

All goes back to would the Apple of old days have apologised about the maps thing? I doubt it.

I'm sure I read some people in Apple liked the 7" galaxy tablet so pushed jobs to make an ipad mini. Perhaps there's many within Apple using Android devices pushing them to copy Android rather than innovate?

A manager can take credit for a teams work but if they aren't prepared to be first line when yelling needs to occur then they lose all credibility.
Yes Steve Jobs and Tim have very different styles in these situations but neither backs away from being the face of the issue. Scott wasn't there who'd want to work for him after that.

I think Apple needs more of Tim's style and to bring more of the team out to the front.

The iPad has followed a pretty logical chain of development. To me the iPad mini was on the cards from day one, even if Steve didn't agree. Then again Steve saying "No" almost always meant "not yet".

Smith288
Jun 3, 2013, 09:16 PM
Macrumors often shows me how easy people lose ALL perspective in life.

ericp99
Jun 3, 2013, 09:31 PM
I'm looking forward to see what John Ive does to iOS at WWDC.

JoEw
Jun 3, 2013, 09:38 PM
I really think Forstall allowed IOS to stagnate. I really look forward to what Jony Ive will do with IOS. I feel like he probably has great insight about what software would look best, since he designs the hardware in so much detail. But we will find out soon enough. The more collaborative all the teams at Apple are the better the integration.

SnowLeopard2008
Jun 3, 2013, 09:45 PM
Let's make this clear. Apple was never against the idea of a 7" tablet. Specifically, Jobs did not like the physical size of UI elements that accompanied smaller (than iPad 9.7") tablets at the time. He never said the 7" screen was too small. He said something like "sand paper should be in the box to sand your fingers down" to be able to tap the small UI buttons. The Android OS on tablets was craptastic at the time. It was also pretty craptastic on smartphones. Today, it's made so much progress on both fronts.

Apple Maps. Not a disaster. It worked fine for me on Day 1. Yes, there were some glitches and 3D Flyover imagery issues. But as far as the core functionality was concerned, it was solid. Imagery can be fixed. Core functionality is a bit more difficult. Google Earth is and was no different. They've had close to a decade to fix imagery problems. As far as UI and ease of use, Apple Maps were and is a big win.

Siri. Not a disaster. Those comparing to Google Now are pretty stupid. Google Now and Siri are two different beasts and have two very different goals in mind. Siri is on-demand. Google Now is trying to predict your future based on previous usage behaviors and patterns. Siri is inherently never "ahead of the curve" so to speak. Google Now tries to be but it doesn't always get it right.

As far as Forstall, he did many great things to iOS. He made mistakes sure. But overall, iOS would not be where it is today without him. But with Steve Jobs gone, Apple is going to change whether you like it or not. There's a new CEO. It's Cook's Apple now. And so far, we haven't seen any major changes that can be decidedly those of Tim Cook.

charlituna
Jun 3, 2013, 10:05 PM
Well these dramatic changes Johnny I've is proposing may not be as good.

We don't know what changes he might be making.

Forstall didn't leave so much as was told to, for a number of reasons. Staying was not a choice

----------

If it was that good the leaks would confirm it being an amazing new OS. Instead they use the words flat which usually means boring .

Most of these 'leaks' are just rumors based on a single anti skeuomorphism comment Ive made a year or so ago. The rumors could be true, somewhat true or total BS like that thinner iPhone 4S. And perhaps this cheap (plastic or not) iPhone

----------

Also the maps fiasco was blown way put of proportion. A flat boring IOS will upset far more people.

While you are correct about the Maps thing it wasn't the only reason.

And you may find that in fact that many folks won't be that upset. The vast majority of folks that buy Apple stuff really don't care as long as it works. Only maybe 5% of users will care and 4.5 of those will probably be more upset at how long the first jailbreak takes to come out

BvizioN
Jun 4, 2013, 12:47 AM
People should appetite the good work the guy done. So he made a few mistakes with maps and Siri but I think Apple is worse off without him.

I heard that he did take a lot of credit for a work that wasn't done entirely by himself! We will see but I don't think he will be greatly missed!

ThisIsNotMe
Jun 4, 2013, 01:15 AM
Premium and innovation seem to be gone.

Please elaborate as to what "innovation" seems to be gone?
Please, tell us all what needs to be innovated.

SnowLeopard2008
Jun 4, 2013, 01:20 AM
I heard that he did take a lot of credit for a work that wasn't done entirely by himself! We will see but I don't think he will be greatly missed!

He isn't going to sit and code every new feature from beginning to end. He was more in a leadership kind of role.

Tar Sniffer
Jun 4, 2013, 01:22 AM
If it was that good the leaks would confirm it being an amazing new OS. Instead they use the words flat which usually means boring something Apple fans associate with Android devices.

Describing the OS as 'amazing' doesn't tell you anything about the design. If you have a negative association with 'flat', than thats cool, but it doesn't necessarily mean it will be bad.

The problem with 'flat design' is that it's so overused. Google and Microsoft have embraced the concept and implemented it everywhere, to the point that it looks tacky. While Jony Ive is known for liking minimalism, I feel that he won't create a radical overhaul to iOS, instead only being more sympathetic to flat design, and will allow effects like shadows and gradients to be implemented still, but just not so liberally.

No one knows though. I could be wrong and end up agreeing with you on June 10.

Lone Deranger
Jun 4, 2013, 01:24 AM
Well these dramatic changes Johnny I've is proposing may not be as good. I wonder how many Apple fans will regret him leaving?

How much was he involved with the first iphone OS?

Jumping the gun a bit aren't ya!

fullauto
Jun 4, 2013, 01:50 AM
None of us really know anything about how SF was at Apple, the guy could have been a total nightmare, caused divisions - been a suckjob to SJ - who knows.. It's crazy to speculate.

I believe Tim Cook is being honest when he talks about how Apple departments are now connecting and ideas are being shared, segregation and barriers will ruin a business in the long run.

One would think the brains and brawn behind iOS and OS X when in collaboration would be a spectacular sight to watch, no doubt 90% of any wow factor is being saved for beyond OS X, which isn't far away!

BvizioN
Jun 4, 2013, 01:56 AM
He isn't going to sit and code every new feature from beginning to end. He was more in a leadership kind of role.

Yes yes, I know all that! He would never acknowledge or appreciate the hard work done by others, apparenlty. Some would say it is arrogance.

dontpannic
Jun 4, 2013, 01:58 AM
Instead they use the words flat which usually means boring something Apple fans associate with Android devices.

Flat doesn't mean boring. Read up on flat design philosophies and maybe you won't sound so unfamiliar with the whole affair.

hafr
Jun 4, 2013, 03:29 AM
Some people are so afraid of changes I can't help but wonder if they're as angry over the idea of getting a raise.

"They probably want me to work more, the bastards, because more money can only mean more work. I'm gonna tell them I don't want it!"

SnowLeopard2008
Jun 4, 2013, 12:21 PM
Yes yes, I know all that! He would never acknowledge or appreciate the hard work done by others, apparenlty. Some would say it is arrogance.

Any proof of that? He is a bit arrogant. But like Jobs, he's not just blindly arrogant.

pittpanthersfan
Jun 4, 2013, 05:23 PM
...Scott?

pdutta2000
Jun 4, 2013, 10:38 PM
Yes he should have been fired. This is Tim Cook's Apple not Steve Jobs' Apple. As much as we all wish Steve was still alive...he's not and Scott was getting in the way of what Tim wanted to do. Siri and Maps just made the case easier. Tim is hitching his wagon to the Jony Ive train and it seems clear that Scott and Jony didn't get along.

madsci954
Jun 5, 2013, 07:26 AM
A flat boring IOS will upset far more people.

People would also argue that Forstall was the reason why iOS remained the same since it launched in 2007 and has grown stale. And it seems more people are excited for the change than those that are worried about it.

chrf097
Jun 5, 2013, 07:50 AM
We have yet to see iOS under Ive's design, and Cue's and Federighi's (don't forget, Ive is just the designer, Cue took over Siri and Maps and Federighi is in charge of iOS and Mac OS X overall now) changes to the overall system. I don't think we can make any judgement until we see and use iOS 7 for ourselves.

Mr Retina
Jun 5, 2013, 08:04 AM
Clearly He was a disrespectful ass to the team, and couldn't be worked with. I almost have a feeling that many software engineers had amazing ideas for IOS, but since Scott had such a fat head, none of those great Ideas saw the light IMO.

monaarts
Jun 5, 2013, 08:04 AM
We have yet to see iOS under Ive's design, and Cue's and Federighi's (don't forget, Ive is just the designer, Cue took over Siri and Maps and Federighi is in charge of iOS and Mac OS X overall now) changes to the overall system. I don't think we can make any judgement until we see and use iOS 7 for ourselves.

And this is exactly why I am so excited about WWDC this year. There is finally a collaborative effort on all levels.

Ive - Design for iOS, OSX, and all apps within each OS
Federighi - Creation of iOS and OSX with Ive's design input
Cue - Responsible for apps and services with Ive's design input and Federighi's integration requirements

Sounds soooo much better!

charlituna
Jun 5, 2013, 08:16 AM
He should never have been fired.

All goes back to would the Apple of old days have apologised about the maps thing? I doubt it.


It's a moot question since Apple isn't the Apple of old.

And Forstall was likely for more than just the maps thing.

vvswarup
Jun 6, 2013, 09:03 PM
Well these dramatic changes Johnny I've is proposing may not be as good. I wonder how many Apple fans will regret him leaving?

How much was he involved with the first iphone OS?

What's funny is that while Forestall was at Apple, everyone was talking ad nauseam about how iOS is looking stale.

Yet, now that there's so much buzz about a new iOS, people are already calling it a failure based on some stupid rumors.

Dolorian
Jun 6, 2013, 09:18 PM
I won't deny that Forstall did many great things for Apple and iOS in particular but frankly, every time he came on stage you could smell the hubris from a mile away. People like that just don't play well with others and as far as I have read this was the case.

Was it a good move to give him the boot? I guess it was necessary for Apple now and what Cook is trying to do with it. But then again I've heard that Ive without Job's direction has struggled before, so we'll have to wait and see how things turn out.

I for one am really excited for WWDC and looking forward to Ive's take on iOS. I really hope Apple puts out some truly great stuff so that the prophets of doom who are always predicting Apple's imminent demise finally lie down.

ThisIsNotMe
Jun 6, 2013, 10:51 PM
And this is exactly why I am so excited about WWDC this year. There is finally a collaborative effort on all levels.

Ive - Design for iOS, OSX, and all apps within each OS
Federighi - Creation of iOS and OSX with Ive's design input
Cue - Responsible for apps and services with Ive's design input and Federighi's integration requirements

Sounds soooo much better!

Ivy is the look and fell guy responsible for the overall image of Apple products.
Federighi is the backend guy responsible for making the software run.
Mansfield is the backend guy responsible for making the hardware run.
Cue is responsible to connecting it all together.

I think many people overlook the importance of Mansfield's return to Apple.

Rogifan
Jun 7, 2013, 02:11 AM
Ivy is the look and fell guy responsible for the overall image of Apple products.
Federighi is the backend guy responsible for making the software run.
Mansfield is the backend guy responsible for making the hardware run.
Cue is responsible to connecting it all together.

I think many people overlook the importance of Mansfield's return to Apple.

I like how Cook has reorganized things. Things were much more siloed under Steve. Now it really is functionally based and everyone has to work together. Only thing I worry about is if these guys are stretched too thin. They all seem to have a ********* on their plate, even if you exclude any new product categories they might be working on.

Aldaris
Jun 7, 2013, 02:26 AM
...Scott?

My thought too.

There has been a lot written about Mr. Forstalls interpersonal skills at Apple.
Many of the higher ups including Sir Jonny Ive wouldn't be alone with him because of his outright arrogance. Tim Cook had the balls to admit iOS Maps wasn't as good as it could have been and Scott refused to ball up too. More than enough reason to send his sorry arrogant piece of work packing.

-Not a team player.
-Not willing to accept accountability.

Sounds like enough for me, and lets be honest this isn't small potatoes, this is being the face of iOS, and thinking he's next in line for CEO, and ripping everyone who crosses him, and refuses to own up to mistakes and shortcomings.

Jonny Ive has been humble and passionate about what he does-and does well, he's been a team player and has an amazing team. Last I heard, there are no individuals that refuse to meet one on one with Sir Ive.

To conclude and give my opinion. No, Scott should not have stayed at Apple, the internal politics would have destroyed the company over time. OS's and devices would drift directions and software would become a mess, being buggy if interchangeable/interoperable at all. The 'magic' of Apple is Apple creates the 'spiritual/mental'(software) and the 'physical'(hardware). Scott would continue to be a selfish vice president, and divert iOS from the rest of Apple.

roadbloc
Jun 7, 2013, 02:30 AM
Forstall was a douche. All looks and no trousers. Just like all the apps he designed. I think Apple have made the right choice.

But I guess we'll see.

vincebio
Jun 7, 2013, 02:59 AM
i think the OP should post his predictions....then we can all laugh at him on tuesday.

ThisIsNotMe
Jun 7, 2013, 01:54 PM
I like how Cook has reorganized things. Things were much more siloed under Steve. Now it really is functionally based and everyone has to work together. Only thing I worry about is if these guys are stretched too thin. They all seem to have a ********* on their plate, even if you exclude any new product categories they might be working on.

I would be more worried about "design by committee". Any large project needs a single decision maker with the grand vision. Hope that Cook is that guy even if the guys below him are the "idea' men.

Rogifan
Jun 7, 2013, 04:59 PM
I would be more worried about "design by committee". Any large project needs a single decision maker with the grand vision. Hope that Cook is that guy even if the guys below him are the "idea' men.

Sorry I don't equate collaboration to "design by committee". Every one of these guys has specific things they're responsible for, things they have the final say on. I don't think a committee signed off on iOS 7 design, Ive did.

charlituna
Jun 7, 2013, 08:34 PM
I would be more worried about "design by committee". Any large project needs a single decision maker with the grand vision. Hope that Cook is that guy even if the guys below him are the "idea' men.

Cook is not that guy. He's the CEO. 'That guy' is typically an underling, in this case Sir Jony Ive.

Steve Jobs was a fluke being both CEO and Idea Guy.

ThisIsNotMe
Jun 7, 2013, 08:48 PM
Cook is not that guy. He's the CEO. 'That guy' is typically an underling, in this case Sir Jony Ive.

Steve Jobs was a fluke being both CEO and Idea Guy.

I am not talking about idea guys being the decision guys.

Cook is clearly not a design guy.
The question is if he is the decision guy across all of these groups.
All large projects need ONE strong leader.

Look at bridge building. In the BA they are currently building 1/2 of a bridge and it is 3x over budget and 10 years behind schedule when the entire bridge only took 3 years to build in 1936. The difference is when projects were built in 1936 there was "the guy" who brought it all together while delegating. Now you have committees being "the guy" and construction projects take infinitely longer and cost infinitely more money.

Apple's "the guy" was Steve Jobs. It isn't clear which approach Tim Cook has taken as CEO - Yet.

AHDuke99
Jun 7, 2013, 09:37 PM
Whatever the case, Monday will mark the beginning of Tim Cook's Apple. What we see and hear will likely set the tone for the company going forward. That's why I'm so excited...and nervous.

xcodeaddict
Jun 7, 2013, 09:41 PM
Whatever the case, Monday will mark the beginning of Tim Cook's Apple. What we see and hear will likely set the tone for the company going forward. That's why I'm so excited...and nervous.

You couldn't resist, eh? I'll bet you don't hear those kind of corporate dullwords @ Apple much!

skaertus
Jun 7, 2013, 09:41 PM
Whatever the case, Monday will mark the beginning of Tim Cook's Apple. What we see and hear will likely set the tone for the company going forward. That's why I'm so excited...and nervous.

I guess you're right. Apple has been through a lot of changes. In fact, it's Jony Ive's Apple we're talking about now. Tim Cook is not a product's guy, but he takes good care of the supply chain. Jony Ive is the brains behind the awesome designs we see.

AHDuke99
Jun 7, 2013, 11:14 PM
You couldn't resist, eh? I'll bet you don't hear those kind of corporate dullwords @ Apple much!

I don't see how anything I said is a surprise to anyone. It's no secret Apple has done very little since Jobs died. Little has changed. The corporate culture is a little more laid back, but there hasn't been a big product release or change. The iPhone 5 is the last big thing Apple has released, and I expect it was largely designed while Jobs was still with Apple.

Profit growth is slowing; as is revenue growth. Apple isn't the same company is used to be. Tim Cook dropped Forstall, a Jobs protégé, because of internal conflicts and his unwillingness to change. Jobs never would have let him go. It was Tim's first big move as Apple CEO.

Yes, what is revealed Monday will set the tone for Apple going forward - we will see what Ive is going to do in his new position and get a peek into whether the moves Cook made last year are working as intended. Right now, people are writing Apple off - saying the magic is gone. I am hoping they are wrong.

joemeetsjane
Jun 7, 2013, 11:23 PM
look, i'm not sure how much trust i can place in a guy that makes design choices based on his striped shirt. that's the last straw.

Michaelgtrusa
Jun 8, 2013, 02:19 AM
I guess you're right. Apple has been through a lot of changes. In fact, it's Jony Ive's Apple we're talking about now. Tim Cook is not a product's guy, but he takes good care of the supply chain. Jony Ive is the brains behind the awesome designs we see.

Agreed, Cook is just a money man not a visionary like Ive and Jobs.

Moccasin
Jun 8, 2013, 03:06 AM
Agreed, Cook is just a money man not a visionary like Ive and Jobs.

He's not just a money man. He transformed Apple's logistical network to allow them to meet the incredible demand generated by iPhone and iPad.

What people forget is that Steve Jobs selected Tim Cook to be the new CEO; he was the best person in the senior team to lead the organisation - indeed he already had been doing for a long while during the latter part of Steve Jobs' illness . Jobs didn't pick Ive as CEO and certainly didn't pick Forstall. I suspect that Forstall had a chip on his shoulder and thought he should have been CEO, so was less inclined to take direction from Cook. It came to a head over Apple Maps and Forstall probably overstepped the mark one time too many.

I think the changes Cook put into place will work well and am looking forward to WWDC. Last year's was very dull. Bring it on.

Southernboyj
Jun 8, 2013, 05:04 AM
If it was that good the leaks would confirm it being an amazing new OS. Instead they use the words flat which usually means boring something Apple fans associate with Android devices. Apple seem keen on low end devices so the new OS might be ideal for the new cheap plastic iphone.

Premium and innovation seem to be gone.

1. Flat doesn't mean boring

2. Android is far from boring.

3. The redesign is to freshen up the stale OS that is iOS 6.

moonman239
Jun 8, 2013, 01:23 PM
People have been wanting a complete redesign of iOS for a while now. Let's see what Ive offers before we bash him.

avanpelt
Jun 8, 2013, 02:51 PM
Apple Maps. Not a disaster. It worked fine for me on Day 1.

Good for you. In the MacRumors community, at least, you seem to be in the minority.

----------

Number one rule when working together on a project: celebrate successes as a team and pull together and address failures cohesively as a team.

From what I've read about Forstall, he sounds like he is the type that likes to take all the credit when things are successful; but when the stuff hits the fan, he starts pointing fingers and deflecting personal responsibility.

Doesn't sound like someone I'd like to have on my team.

SnowLeopard2008
Jun 8, 2013, 07:48 PM
Good for you. In the MacRumors community, at least, you seem to be in the minority.

----------

Number one rule when working together on a project: celebrate successes as a team and pull together and address failures cohesively as a team.

From what I've read about Forstall, he sounds like he is the type that likes to take all the credit when things are successful; but when the stuff hits the fan, he starts pointing fingers and deflecting personal responsibility.

Doesn't sound like someone I'd like to have on my team.

The majority of people just regurgitate what they hear on the news and not experience it for themselves.

And that is my response for your entire post. All we hear is one side of the story, from the news. Do we know Forstall's side? No. You know how judges (like the one presiding over the DOJ vs Apple case) are supposed to withhold judgement until all the facts are in? We should all do the same outside of court.

Maybe the media is right, maybe they're wrong. But I'm certainly not going to assume one version of the story before hearing the complete story.

Rogifan
Jun 9, 2013, 11:28 AM
The majority of people just regurgitate what they hear on the news and not experience it for themselves.

And that is my response for your entire post. All we hear is one side of the story, from the news. Do we know Forstall's side? No. You know how judges (like the one presiding over the DOJ vs Apple case) are supposed to withhold judgement until all the facts are in? We should all do the same outside of court.

Maybe the media is right, maybe they're wrong. But I'm certainly not going to assume one version of the story before hearing the complete story.

You'd think though if what we've heard is so wrong somewhere we would have gotten the other side. The most I saw was a post from John Gruber saying Forstall wasn't universally disliked at least within those who worked under him.

Fresh Burek
Jun 9, 2013, 11:39 AM
Apple's design and UI is outdated. It is time for a change. It doesn't matter if you think "flat" is associated with Android devices, that would only be because you don't know or understand what it is. If you compare iOS and Android UI today, it is clear which one is outdated.

You complain about Apple not innovating, yet you want to keep the same old UI that was first released in 2007? :confused:

/V\acpower
Jun 9, 2013, 01:44 PM
If it was that good the leaks would confirm it being an amazing new OS. Instead they use the words flat which usually means boring something Apple fans associate with Android devices. Apple seem keen on low end devices so the new OS might be ideal for the new cheap plastic iphone.

Premium and innovation seem to be gone.

No, flat usually mean flat. But we sometimes use "flat" as way to say that something was boring, a use that clearly does not apply to the "leaks", because clearly then "flat" mean literally "flat", which mean less texture dans real-material illusion.

Having a flat tire doesn't mean a tire that is boring to look at.

avanpelt
Jun 9, 2013, 04:36 PM
The majority of people just regurgitate what they hear on the news and not experience it for themselves.

And that is my response for your entire post. All we hear is one side of the story, from the news. Do we know Forstall's side? No. You know how judges (like the one presiding over the DOJ vs Apple case) are supposed to withhold judgement until all the facts are in? We should all do the same outside of court.

Maybe the media is right, maybe they're wrong. But I'm certainly not going to assume one version of the story before hearing the complete story.

The OP asked in a public forum whether the public at large thinks Scott Forstall should've stayed at Apple. I gave my opinion based on the information I have at present. Nothing more, nothing less.

If the "other side" (Forstall) ever offers up his perspective, my opinion could change; but the "other side" has been completely silent. Just because one party in an argument chooses not to argue their case, it doesn't preclude third parties from forming opinions.

bniu
Jun 9, 2013, 06:51 PM
He's not just a money man. He transformed Apple's logistical network to allow them to meet the incredible demand generated by iPhone and iPad.

What people forget is that Steve Jobs selected Tim Cook to be the new CEO; he was the best person in the senior team to lead the organisation - indeed he already had been doing for a long while during the latter part of Steve Jobs' illness . Jobs didn't pick Ive as CEO and certainly didn't pick Forstall. I suspect that Forstall had a chip on his shoulder and thought he should have been CEO, so was less inclined to take direction from Cook. It came to a head over Apple Maps and Forstall probably overstepped the mark one time too many.

I think the changes Cook put into place will work well and am looking forward to WWDC. Last year's was very dull. Bring it on.

Steve Jobs wholly expected Tim Cook to lead Apple Tim Cook's way, not Steve's way. He even specifically told Tim that under no circumstances were they to sit around and wonder "What would Steve do?".

Forstall was okay while Steve was there because Forstall had enough respect for Steve to reign himself in. With Steve gone, Forstall was no longer compatible at Apple and with him being unwilling to adapt, there was no place for him. No need to feel bad for Forstall, he's already made more than enough money to live luxuriously for the rest of his life.