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diorio
Dec 18, 2002, 08:33 AM
LOS ANGELES, California (CNN) -- A 15-year-old female student who says she was banned from gym class at school because she is a lesbian filed a lawsuit Tuesday against her instructors and the school district, accusing them of discrimination.



http://www.cnn.com/2002/LAW/12/17/lesbian.lawsuit/index.html

This girl was made to sit in the principles office for a week and a half during PE because the other girls felt uncomfortable. I think this is sad, and proves that though Americans will tell you that they have no prejudice, prove again and again that they do, and strongly.

jrv3034
Dec 18, 2002, 08:57 AM
You know, this is just sad. What is wrong with people? When will our society understand that being homosexual doesen't mean you're a pervert or a sexual predator or a rapist. I find it staggering that crap like this still happens in the 21st century.

And this coming from the TEACHERS!!! If anything they should be offering their help with any difficulties she might be having with her classmates! I'm glad she's suing.:mad:

jelloshotsrule
Dec 18, 2002, 09:09 AM
same reason that the recent "outing" of the ex nfl player was a big deal... people would think he was checking them out in the locker room...

after all, fat football players are so attractive.

this is definitely pathetic. i bet this girl was not ms popular. if she were, then the other cool girls would be fine with it... it just gives high school kids another reason to hate and continue the stupid high school hierarchy.

Mr. Anderson
Dec 18, 2002, 09:33 AM
This girl was in 8th grade, that's even worse, but it is quite sad that they all felt so uncomfortable with the situation that they made her sit out of gym class for a week and half. What they didn't mention was what happened after the week and a half? I'm guessing someone realized they were being stupid and put her back in class. But the damage was already done.

D

rainman::|:|
Dec 18, 2002, 11:12 AM
my poor mistreated sister. gym classes are the worst, there's no real answer as to what to do with gay students. And of course, since gay people are basically worthless, no one bothers to figure it out. I, too, am glad she's suing and hope she wins. It takes a lot of strength to be out in HS, it'd be nice to see the courts back her up...

:(
pnw

zarathustra
Dec 18, 2002, 11:48 AM
It is amazing how people have a hard time putting themselves into other people's shoes. What I mean is that we (straight people) mostly assume that homosexuality is a form of perversion, which it is not. "He/she is a homo - they are fantasizing about us. You know they are perverts!"
We are afraid that we are being checked out, etc., and it makes us feel uncomfortable. We feel they are deviants, but there is just as many straight deviants - except it's ok, because we perceive it to be natural. We only worry about it when it gets to be criminal (sex offenders). Most gay people I know are most gentle and compassionate - and have fewer hangups and limitations than straight people.
they have normal lives with value systems that are not any worse than straight ones.

It almost sounds like wishful thinking sometimes (to be checked out)...

jelloshotsrule
Dec 18, 2002, 02:03 PM
Originally posted by zarathustra
It almost sounds like wishful thinking sometimes (to be checked out)...

yeah, i hear that.

not to mention the fact that the way a lot of girls dress these days (as young as like 8) how can they possibly complain about getting checked out/looked at? ahh. but that's another matter.

i seriously think that this girl was an outsider in general, whether or not it was because she was gay... and therefore, this was just another thing about her that's "different" and so she's not cool.

ahhh. i hate people who hate. ;)

mcrain
Dec 18, 2002, 02:08 PM
Originally posted by jelloshotsrule
ahhh. i hate people who hate. ;)

You sound like me... I'm a militant Hindu. I am intolerant of any intolerance.

Backtothemac
Dec 18, 2002, 02:48 PM
While I agree that this is unreal, and should not have happened, I will play devils advocate here. The other girls were "offended" right. What is the difference between people being "offended" during a prayer, or a word, etc, etc. PC is designed to keep people from being offended, so is that not a PC move by the school?

diorio
Dec 18, 2002, 03:12 PM
Originally posted by jrv3034
You know, this is just sad. What is wrong with people? When will our society understand that being homosexual doesen't mean you're a pervert or a sexual predator or a rapist. I find it staggering that crap like this still happens in the 21st century.

And this coming from the TEACHERS!!! If anything they should be offering their help with any difficulties she might be having with her classmates! I'm glad she's suing.:mad:

It is quite sad and amazing. I hope she wins and this is a widely exposed story so that people will see what is going on.

jelloshotsrule
Dec 18, 2002, 03:52 PM
Originally posted by Backtothemac
While I agree that this is unreal, and should not have happened, I will play devils advocate here. The other girls were "offended" right. What is the difference between people being "offended" during a prayer, or a word, etc, etc. PC is designed to keep people from being offended, so is that not a PC move by the school?

if the school is behind the thing that offends people, ie, the prayer, then that is when it becomes a problem. you know i'm a catholic and therefore prayer is important to me, and having gone to catholic school most of my life, i'm used to praying in school. that said, i don't think a school official should lead in prayer.

similarly, a school official shouldn't segregate people based on their sexual preference. the kids themselves shouldn't either, but certainly not a person in an authority position.

what does PC have to do with it? it's called discrimination, not trying to be nice... it's not like someone called her a "lesbo" or some sort of jokey, non pc phrase that while offensive, could be in good fun. rather, they separated her. made her feel like a total outcast.

pathetic.

jelloshotsrule
Dec 18, 2002, 03:53 PM
Originally posted by mcrain
You sound like me... I'm a militant Hindu. I am intolerant of any intolerance.

yeah, actually thought of you when i wrote that.

vniow
Dec 18, 2002, 05:00 PM
Originally posted by paulwhannel
It takes a lot of strength to be out in HS, it'd be nice to see the courts back her up...

:(
pnw

True dat, definately.

HS kids are cruel, I went to this little hick school that had about 60 kids and just about every day someone would call me gay or whatever and I'd just say, 'I never said that, you're the one who thinks I'm gay, not me.' which just pissed them off even more, but it was better than giving in to their bigotry in my opinion.

daytona63
Dec 18, 2002, 08:04 PM
Sticking her in the principle's office while the other kids were at gym was definitely not the right way to go about it, by any means. All they did was worsen the stigma she probably already felt.

I will say, though, that the other girls' fear of being checked out is well-founded. Think about it - do we have co-ed locker rooms? Now, while we all thought Starship Troopers was way cool, I think that most of us would in reality not want to share a locker room and showers with the opposite sex out of decency. Basically, the school should have come up with a better plan, although I don't have one to offer.

For the record, I do think homosexuality is wrong, but I am not going to infringe on somebody else's rights. In doing so, it is important not to infringe on the rights of both straight and homosexual people.

diorio
Dec 18, 2002, 08:50 PM
Originally posted by daytona63

I will say, though, that the other girls' fear of being checked out is well-founded. Think about it - do we have co-ed locker rooms? Now, while we all thought Starship Troopers was way cool, I think that most of us would in reality not want to share a locker room and showers with the opposite sex out of decency. Basically, the school should have come up with a better plan, although I don't have one to offer.

For the record, I do think homosexuality is wrong, but I am not going to infringe on somebody else's rights. In doing so, it is important not to infringe on the rights of both straight and homosexual people.

Its kind of like in the movie rat race, when one of the lucy's on the bus walk up to Cuba Gooding Jr and ask him to stop at a rest stop to go to the bathroom because the door in the charter bus bathroom is locked. Cuba say's , "you ain't got nothing the other Lucy's haven't seen" and in this case, she/he did, but that's not the point.

The school should definately come up with a plan, like this. They could stop being homophonbic ****ers and actually do some sex/homosexual education classes so their students wouldn't be homophobic rednecks their whole lives.

Homosexuality may be wrong accourding to some religions, but thats the great thing about the U.S. we're all different, and while homosexuality may be different, it isn't necessarily wrong.

Backtothemac
Dec 19, 2002, 02:14 PM
well, Jello, you miss the point. My point is that it is a public school. Thus, would the school not be required to "defend" the rights of the majority of the students. I personally cannot stand homophobia, but thease ore young children, that do not understand the workings of sexuality. So, by holding her out of gym, did it not establish more order in the gym class? Did they do it to protect her from abuse from the other children.

Again, playing devils advocate here.

vniow
Dec 19, 2002, 02:25 PM
Originally posted by Backtothemac
I personally cannot stand homophobia, but thease ore young children, that do not understand the workings of sexuality. So, by holding her out of gym, did it not establish more order in the gym class? Did they do it to protect her from abuse from the other children.



How about a better idea: educate the children on the workings of sexuality.

These are 8th graders, chances are some of them have had sex or have experimented with it somewhat so it's not entirely alien to them.

Sex education in most schools blows. It's all body parts that the children whisper and snicker about when the teacher's not looking.
Why not teach them something about sexuality that doesn't neccecarally have to do with organs?

Removing the girl from the gym may have protected her from abuse from the other girls, but that's only a temporary solution if the other kids aren't educated enough to stop doing it in the future.

Backtothemac
Dec 19, 2002, 02:38 PM
Originally posted by edvniow



How about a better idea: educate the children on the workings of sexuality.

These are 8th graders, chances are some of them have had sex or have experimented with it somewhat so it's not entirely alien to them.

Sex education in most schools blows. It's all body parts that the children whisper and snicker about when the teacher's not looking.
Why not teach them something about sexuality that doesn't neccecarally have to do with organs?

Removing the girl from the gym may have protected her from abuse from the other girls, but that's only a temporary solution if the other kids aren't educated enough to stop doing it in the future.

Because it is not the states responsiblity to educate my child about sexuality. It violates my freedom of religion. That is my responsiblity. What if from a biblical standpoint. my child is in gym with that child. I could sue the school by "endangering" my child and violating her religion.

Again, devils advocate

mcrain
Dec 19, 2002, 02:46 PM
Originally posted by Backtothemac
Because it is not the states responsiblity to educate my child about sexuality. It violates my freedom of religion. That is my responsiblity. What if from a biblical standpoint. my child is in gym with that child. I could sue the school by "endangering" my child and violating her religion.

Again, devils advocate

Actually, I think it is the state's responsbility to teach young impressionable, hot little high school chicks about sex. They bounce around in those little cheerleader outfits, plaid school girl skirts, ponytails and pig-tails...

Yeah, I think I'm changing jobs. MCrain, dream sex ed teacher (sort of like the SNL skit with Mel Gibson the dream gynocologist).

vniow
Dec 19, 2002, 02:46 PM
Good point, although while I agree that it is the parent's responsibility to educate their kids about sexual matters, the fact is most of them don't. I know mine didn't at least and none of the people I know had their parents sit down and chat with them either (of otherwise they didn't talk about it)

If children were more educated about sexuality then maybe we wouldn't have these types of problems.

I'd rather teach my kids about sex then some teacher but how are we going to get more parents to do that?

vniow
Dec 19, 2002, 02:53 PM
Originally posted by mcrain


Actually, I think it is the state's responsbility to teach young impressionable, hot little high school chicks about sex. They bounce around in those little cheerleader outfits, plaid school girl skirts, ponytails and pig-tails...

Yeah, I think I'm changing jobs. MCrain, dream sex ed teacher (sort of like the SNL skit with Mel Gibson the dream gynocologist).


Now there's a sex ed class that I'd sign up for!

How tight should my chearleading outfit be, balrley skin tight or so tight that you have an exact mold of my ass?

Backtothemac
Dec 19, 2002, 02:59 PM
Oh, dear lord this has turned in to...

Mac & porn.

vniow
Dec 19, 2002, 03:02 PM
Can't be any worse then you and mcrain's French lesbian frog talk in that other thread.

Doctor Q
Dec 19, 2002, 03:40 PM
Some good may come of this unfortunate incident. I heard the girl interviewed on the news last night and she sounds emboldened to stand up for her rights. Even though adults are no doubt running the show on both sides of this controversy, she might gain some self respect out of the whole thing as a result of being thrust in the limelight. Plenty of middle school kids are selfconscious, shy, worried about what others think, etc. She's been through the worst of it (being isolated and taunted) but might come out ahead just because she now has a cause and a focus.

medea
Dec 19, 2002, 10:12 PM
Originally posted by mcrain


You sound like me... I'm a militant Hindu. I am intolerant of any intolerance.
I'm a militant coward......
This is very sad indeed, but there is hope, in other recent news the senior class of one school stood up for there fellow students, two girls who were voted as cutest couple for the school yearbook and with the students fought to keep it in....:)

diorio
Dec 20, 2002, 08:43 AM
Originally posted by Backtothemac


Because it is not the states responsiblity to educate my child about sexuality. It violates my freedom of religion. That is my responsiblity. What if from a biblical standpoint. my child is in gym with that child. I could sue the school by "endangering" my child and violating her religion.

Again, devils advocate

Technically, in a public school you probably couldn't sue and win based on violation of religion. Catholic school, probably. This is a public school, with more religions than one. Every sex ed class I was ever in, you had the chance to opt out by getting your parents to sign a form. If you don't opt out, its your fault, and therefore the school is not liable for any religious damage to you. Sex education in schools sucks, and if there were more classes, this **** might not happen as much.

vollspacken
Dec 28, 2002, 12:43 PM
... you americans and your religious infested bigot society are just sick!!! Go and live in your pityful state of immature unreflected fanatism but leave other people alone: welcome to the middle-ages...

...yeah, this will surely freak some of you out, but since I got to the US half a year ago, I'm fed up with your oppressive society, driven by people who are so presumtious to distinguish between right and wrong just on the basis of their biblical literalist morality!!!

...you think you are free...muharharhar, dream on!
...otherwise, immigrate to europe, as intelligent americans did before!!!

just my to cents as an observer from outside

wdlove
Dec 29, 2002, 05:28 PM
Many Christians are acepting of Lesbians, want to help them in a positive manner.

http://www.christianlesbians.com/

A program set up by the state of Massachusettes to help Lesbian Youth, to hopefully help not to feel isolated!


http://www.state.ma.us/gcgly/

diorio
Dec 29, 2002, 10:01 PM
Originally posted by vollspacken
... you americans and your religious infested bigot society are just sick!!! Go and live in your pityful state of immature unreflected fanatism but leave other people alone: welcome to the middle-ages...

...yeah, this will surely freak some of you out, but since I got to the US half a year ago, I'm fed up with your oppressive society, driven by people who are so presumtious to distinguish between right and wrong just on the basis of their biblical literalist morality!!!

...you think you are free...muharharhar, dream on!
...otherwise, immigrate to europe, as intelligent americans did before!!!

just my to cents as an observer from outside

I wouldn't say that America is a bigoted society. Sure we have problems with prejudice, but nowhere is it strong enough to call bigotry. This was an isolated incident, and most who read it were outraged.

Yes, religious groups often persecuted out of desire to be "moral" and "acting gods will", but again, this does not represent the larger portion of Americans.

Immigrate to europe? What the hell are you talking about? Most Americans immigrated from Europe to escape religious or economic persecution.