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ItsWelshy
Jun 10, 2013, 09:48 AM
I’m really hoping that no one is really expecting iOS7 to be influenced very much if at all by Jony Ive.

Anyone who understands the development lifecycle will know that Ive’s influence over this iOS version will be very limited, he’s only been in charge of design since Christmas.

I can see many on here being disappointed if there is a major, major overhaul, where everything looks completely different.

I’d expect some minor changes to the basic UI that Ive has implemented, but to say he’s had enough time to do anything major is extremely ignorant, and heaping way too much expectation on what he can deliver in such a small space of time. I would imagine that he’s had a backlog or developments already in progress in dev sprints and had little room for change

I’d expect a more ‘Ive style OS’ to be in iOS8 or even iOS9

No Ive bashing after the conference please!


:apple:

DBZmusicboy01
Jun 10, 2013, 09:58 AM
Did you take your medication yet? JUST wait 2 more hours left until we can judge then.

ItsWelshy
Jun 10, 2013, 10:00 AM
Did you take your medication yet? JUST wait 2 more hours left until we can judge then.

Did you read my post? I'm saying that a lot are placing this iOS update as Ive's. it's not.

TimUSCA
Jun 10, 2013, 10:04 AM
Except WSJ (which we all know is a controlled leak) has already said it will be a complete redesign. If any functionality changes, that had nothing to do with Forstall or Ive anyway, and it would have been in development long ago.

ItsWelshy
Jun 10, 2013, 10:07 AM
Except WSJ (which we all know is a controlled leak) has already said it will be a complete redesign. If any functionality changes, that had nothing to do with Forstall or Ive anyway, and it would have been in development long ago.

Exactly...

TimUSCA
Jun 10, 2013, 10:12 AM
Exactly...

What do you mean exactly? A complete redesign with a flat interface is completely contradictory to your original post. If WSJ is correct, that means Ive's influence is definitely all over iOS.

cmChimera
Jun 10, 2013, 10:13 AM
I’m really hoping that no one is really expecting iOS7 to be influenced very much if at all by Jony Ive.

Anyone who understands the development lifecycle will know that Ive’s influence over this iOS version will be very limited, he’s only been in charge of design since Christmas.

I can see many on here being disappointed if there is a major, major overhaul, where everything looks completely different.

I’d expect some minor changes to the basic UI that Ive has implemented, but to say he’s had enough time to do anything major is extremely ignorant, and heaping way too much expectation on what he can deliver in such a small space of time. I would imagine that he’s had a backlog or developments already in progress in dev sprints and had little room for change

I’d expect a more ‘Ive style OS’ to be in iOS8 or even iOS9

No Ive bashing after the conference please!


:apple:

You've clearly ignored ALL rumors suggesting the exact opposite of what you propose. I'll believe the Wall Street Journal over you, thanks.

jabingla2810
Jun 10, 2013, 10:13 AM
Except WSJ (which we all know is a controlled leak) has already said it will be a complete redesign. If any functionality changes, that had nothing to do with Forstall or Ive anyway, and it would have been in development long ago.

There won't ever be a complete redesign.

It till be a refinement, and it will probably be a bit "flatter", to use everybodies favourite word right now.

Look at OSX, its looked the same for over 10 years.

If Apple completely redesign it today, then what? Redesign it again in 5 years when everybody is "bored" of that?

Think about it this way: Imagine you're Mum one day updates her iPhone, that she loves and knows how to use, and paid a lot of money for, and it looks completely different. Will she be happy with that?

ItsWelshy
Jun 10, 2013, 10:14 AM
What do you mean exactly? A complete redesign with a flat interface is completely contradictory to your original post. If WSJ is correct, that means Ive's influence is definitely all over iOS.

I think something has been lost in translation here.

Is English your first language?

mumph
Jun 10, 2013, 10:16 AM
I think it will be only slightly 'flattened' i.e. removal of gloss, subduing of shadows. Icons will be similar to current incarnations but some may be refreshed. The leather bits etc will be gone and replaced with blacks, greys and whites. I'm not sure about the Ultra Light Helvetica. I know we have Retina screens now but type that light can cause problems in print and at small sizes on screen.

If a Windows user with a crappy screen and Windows crap font rendering visits Apples website with a view of checking out Apple stuff to possibly switch, with Ultra Light Helvetica they are going to have a crappy experience and be possibly turned off.

The UltraLight type will have to be supported by a heavier weight in some instances which could possibly make everything feel a bit disjointed as heavier type usually sits higher in the hierarchy.

I hope they pull it off though.

ItsWelshy
Jun 10, 2013, 10:27 AM
You've clearly ignored ALL rumors suggesting the exact opposite of what you propose. I'll believe the Wall Street Journal over you, thanks.

Fancy a small bet?

Nothing fundamental will change, grid system with minor changes, maybe new icons.

----------

There won't ever be a complete redesign.

It till be a refinement, and it will probably be a bit "flatter", to use everybodies favourite word right now.

Look at OSX, its looked the same for over 10 years.

If Apple completely redesign it today, then what? Redesign it again in 5 years when everybody is "bored" of that?

Think about it this way: Imagine you're Mum one day updates her iPhone, that she loves and knows how to use, and paid a lot of money for, and it looks completely different. Will she be happy with that?

Completely agree, brilliant post.

Could someone tell me the last time a major OS was ‘Completely overhauled’ ?

Unless ‘Completely overhauled’ means changing the icons and small evolutions and improvement in functionality?

I’m hoping for one thing… and it’s strange one… I’d like iMessage to be added to iCloud, so I can message from my work PC without picking up my phone.

Austin M.
Jun 10, 2013, 10:29 AM
I'm really in shock by the people who think Jony Ive has no influence in iOS 7. DID YOU NOT WATCH THE D11 interview with Tim Cook? He said it himself that Ive was a MASSIVE influence!

cmChimera
Jun 10, 2013, 10:29 AM
Fancy a small bet?

Nothing fundamental will change, grid system with minor changes, maybe new icons.

Define fundamental.

ItsWelshy
Jun 10, 2013, 10:33 AM
I'm really in shock by the people who think Jony Ive has no influence in iOS 7. DID YOU NOT WATCH THE D11 interview with Tim Cook? He said it himself that Ive was a MASSIVE influence!

You think he can be a massive influence on software since Christmas? maybe for iOS8, not a chance for iOS7.

----------

Define fundamental.

A complete redesign, as in, removing the grid system from iOS and changing the way it works.

Windows 8 is probably the closest you'd come, but even that retained the well know desktop.

----------

Define fundamental.

A complete redesign, as in, removing the grid system from iOS and changing the way it works.

Windows 8 is probably the closest you'd come, but even that retained the well know desktop.

fivedots
Jun 10, 2013, 10:34 AM
You think he can be a massive influence on software since Christmas? maybe for iOS8, not a chance for iOS7.
I am glad that you are privy to the inner workings of Apple and have a complete understanding of who was influencing what and when.

Just because Ive officially moved to a role at a certain date does not forgo the possibility of him having an influence elsewhere prior to that. Or that Apple was generally preparing to move in this direction prior to his appointment.

Think outside your little world just for a second. And for what it's worth, a surface level re-skinning alone with no structural changes could conceivably be pulled off in 6 months.

I agree that we'll get a new skin. It'll be flatter and cleaner but it won't be dramatic. Structurally, nothing major will change and it'll all be additive and iterative. They will build on what they've got rather than reinventing the wheel. Far too many casual users to do otherwise.

TimUSCA
Jun 10, 2013, 10:35 AM
I think something has been lost in translation here.

Is English your first language?

Are you kidding me right now? Yes, English is my first language. It is YOU that is communicating poorly. You're saying Ive's influence won't be heavy in iOS 7, and I'm saying you're wrong. It'll be all over iOS 7, as evidenced by WSJ.

Jare
Jun 10, 2013, 10:35 AM
Welshy will be ready to eat his words in t minus 1:30 approx.

Silverrune
Jun 10, 2013, 10:36 AM
You think he can be a massive influence on software since Christmas? maybe for iOS8, not a chance for iOS7.

You'd be surprised what a very capable team can do in the time given, especially since they had hauled over people from OS X. They definitely "got **** done."

ItsWelshy
Jun 10, 2013, 10:37 AM
I am glad that you are privy to the inner workings of Apple and have a complete understanding of who was influencing what and when.

Just because Ive officially moved to a role at a certain date does not forgo the possibility of him having an influence elsewhere prior to that. Or that Apple was generally preparing to move in this direction prior to his appointment.

Think outside your little head just for a second.

You think that Ive was working secretly behind Forstall's back? great company logic that is.

I've worked in software development for a long time, and in my experience (with some massive compaines) it's impossible to change a release schedule that much in the time available. It would an outragous risk, and one that no comapny would even attempt.

cmChimera
Jun 10, 2013, 10:38 AM
A complete redesign, as in, removing the grid system from iOS and changing the way it works.

Windows 8 is probably the closest you'd come, but even that retained the well know desktop. I disagree that that is the only way to have a fundamental change. So there you go. To use your terminology, I think Ive will have a substantial impact on the design of iOS 7. So do people that are far more informed than you.

chrf097
Jun 10, 2013, 10:38 AM
There won't ever be a complete redesign.

It till be a refinement, and it will probably be a bit "flatter", to use everybodies favourite word right now.

Look at OSX, its looked the same for over 10 years.

If Apple completely redesign it today, then what? Redesign it again in 5 years when everybody is "bored" of that?

Take a look at Mac OS 10.0.4 compared to Mac OS 10.8.4

http://www.guidebookgallery.org/pics/gui/desktop/firstrun/macosx100.png

vs.

http://skotgat.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/about_mac.png


Of course, there are similar design elements, but as you can tell, it's been heavily overhauled, while still being familiar to those who used the old version. There are similar elements, but it doesn't look the exactly the same, in fact it looks extremely different. It's very obvious a UI overhaul has occurred.

You can observe the change in the design of the iPhone too.

http://www.swayaminfotech.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/iphone-2g.jpg

Original iPhone 2G

http://asset1.cbsistatic.com/cnwk.1d/i/tim/2012/09/17/06_archimedes_35438535_620x433.jpg

iPhone 5.


Now, they look similar because they both contain similar design cues, but the iPhone 5 is still a complete overhaul from the iPhone 2G.

Silverrune
Jun 10, 2013, 10:38 AM
You think that Ive was working secretly behind Forstall's back? great company logic that is.

I've worked in software development for a long time, and in my experience (with some massive compaines) it's impossible to change a release schedule that much in the time available. It would an outragous risk, and one that no comapny would even attempt.

It wouldn't have been behind his back, he probably knew he was being replaced and had to slowly give his job over to Ive's the company just made it official in december.

fivedots
Jun 10, 2013, 10:39 AM
You think that Ive was working secretly behind Forstall's back? great company logic that is.
Not sure what world you live in, but senior roles are by no means mutually exclusive. You don't run full steam ahead with your ideas without input and consultation from your peers.

Jare
Jun 10, 2013, 10:39 AM
I've worked in software development for a long time, and in my experience (with some massive compaines)

Oh really? Because in this thread, I will quote you exactly:
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1418699

I'm not massively IT savvy, and think there are potentially things that slow the machine down and rogue 'processes' ect.

Nice try, though.

gmanist1000
Jun 10, 2013, 10:42 AM
Take a look at Mac OS 10.0.4 compared to Mac OS 10.8.4

Image (http://www.guidebookgallery.org/pics/gui/desktop/firstrun/macosx100.png)

vs.

Image (http://skotgat.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/about_mac.png)


Of course, there are similar design elements, but as you can tell, it's been heavily overhauled, while still being familiar to those who used the old version. There are similar elements, but it doesn't look the exactly the same, in fact it looks extremely different. It's very obvious a UI overhaul has occurred.

You can observe the change in the design of the iPhone too.

Image (http://www.swayaminfotech.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/iphone-2g.jpg)

Original iPhone 2G

Image (http://asset1.cbsistatic.com/cnwk.1d/i/tim/2012/09/17/06_archimedes_35438535_620x433.jpg)

iPhone 5.


Now, they look similar because they both contain similar design cues, but the iPhone 5 is still a complete overhaul from the iPhone 2G.

Wow Mac OS X started with Internet Explorer?

Silverrune
Jun 10, 2013, 10:43 AM
Wow Mac OS X started with Internet Explorer?

Could have just been the browser he preferred.

fivedots
Jun 10, 2013, 10:44 AM
Wow Mac OS X started with Internet Explorer?

It was the default browser at one point. Kind of blew my mind.

Great watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxOp5mBY9IY

Jare
Jun 10, 2013, 10:45 AM
Don't worry folks, you can take everything the OP has said with a grain of salt after seeing my last post.

TimUSCA
Jun 10, 2013, 10:46 AM
Could have just been the browser he preferred.

Nope, OS X started with Internet Explorer. It was part of the deal Apple made with MS when MS bought a ton of stock to bail Apple out in the '90s. Apple agreed to have IE stock on their OS for however many years. When that deal expired, Safari was born.

KentuckyHouse
Jun 10, 2013, 10:48 AM
I’m really hoping that no one is really expecting iOS7 to be influenced very much if at all by Jony Ive.

Anyone who understands the development lifecycle will know that Ive’s influence over this iOS version will be very limited, he’s only been in charge of design since Christmas.

I can see many on here being disappointed if there is a major, major overhaul, where everything looks completely different.

I’d expect some minor changes to the basic UI that Ive has implemented, but to say he’s had enough time to do anything major is extremely ignorant, and heaping way too much expectation on what he can deliver in such a small space of time. I would imagine that he’s had a backlog or developments already in progress in dev sprints and had little room for change

I’d expect a more ‘Ive style OS’ to be in iOS8 or even iOS9

No Ive bashing after the conference please!


:apple:

Did you read my post? I'm saying that a lot are placing this iOS update as Ive's. it's not.

Jony, is that you? Shouldn't you be getting ready to shock the world? :D

jabingla2810
Jun 10, 2013, 10:50 AM
Now, they look similar because they both contain similar design cues, but the iPhone 5 is still a complete overhaul from the iPhone 2G.

Yes, because that happened over lots of years.

I didn't say the iPhone OS hasn't progressed, i'm saying it happens in small iterations, and this year won't be any different.

stuffradio
Jun 10, 2013, 10:50 AM
Threads like this are pointless. Wait a bit over an hour to decide how much you think Ive has influenced iOS 7. The OP also forgets Apple itself said they were pulling engineers from OS X 10.9 because iOS 7 was getting behind schedule. Sounds like a redesign to me.

KentuckyHouse
Jun 10, 2013, 10:54 AM
Oh really? Because in this thread, I will quote you exactly:
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1418699

Nice try, though.

Game, set, match. :D

/thread

Jare
Jun 10, 2013, 10:56 AM
Game, set, match. :D

/thread

I feel honoured :o

chrf097
Jun 10, 2013, 11:00 AM
Yes, because that happened over lots of years.

I didn't say the iPhone OS hasn't progressed, i'm saying it happens in small iterations, and this year won't be any different.

iOS has been around for seven years and it's UI has been updated continuously, and now it's an overhaul tme.

From 10.2 to 10.3 there was a MAJOR UI overhaul, that happened within a very short time. Even 10.6 to 10.7

Austin M.
Jun 10, 2013, 11:03 AM
You think he can be a massive influence on software since Christmas? maybe for iOS8, not a chance for iOS7.

----------



A complete redesign, as in, removing the grid system from iOS and changing the way it works.

Windows 8 is probably the closest you'd come, but even that retained the well know desktop.

----------



A complete redesign, as in, removing the grid system from iOS and changing the way it works.

Windows 8 is probably the closest you'd come, but even that retained the well know desktop.

In regards to the above post, I'll take the word of the Apple CEO over you any day. If Tim Cook says he has a massive influence, then he probably does.

Stetrain
Jun 10, 2013, 11:04 AM
Ive and the design team are working on the higher level design work, but the normal iOS engineers have of course continued to work on whatever they would have normally worked on.

Things like inter-app communication, services and APIs for developers, and other lower level features probably won't be influenced much by changes in design direction.

cmChimera
Jun 10, 2013, 11:14 AM
Oh really? Because in this thread, I will quote you exactly:
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1418699



Nice try, though.


Hahaha, too awesome.

chrf097
Jun 10, 2013, 11:18 AM
Wow Mac OS X started with Internet Explorer?

Yep, Safari didn't exist until around 2003, with Panther.

Jare
Jun 10, 2013, 11:23 AM
Also I might like to add, that the OP tends to "work for companies" that suit his threads current needs.

As seen here:
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1483805

I work for a large travel company in the UK, looking at Google Analytics, the average spend on our website is really interesting.

ItsWelshy
Jun 11, 2013, 06:05 AM
I feel honoured :o

How did this work out for you?

lol

----------

Also I might like to add, that the OP tends to "work for companies" that suit his threads current needs.

As seen here:
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1483805

I work as a Business Analyst and Test Analyst as a contractor, I have worked on many large scale development projects, but I'm not that savvy with OS's, I work with off the shelf systems and software.

For example, I delivered a crew management system for British Airways, I dont need to know how to use OSx for that

guineapig
Jun 11, 2013, 06:50 AM
How did this work out for you?

lol

----------


Oh, you're back!
Do you feel like commenting on Forstall's massive influence over iOS 7?
:p

Jare
Jun 11, 2013, 06:59 AM
Care to comment on how there was barely a change in iOS 7, due to the lack of time they had to conceive and create it?

omenatarhuri
Jun 11, 2013, 07:05 AM
Care to comment on how there was barely a change in iOS 7, due to the lack of time they had to conceive and create it?
If they really did this post-deforstallization, one has to give serious kudos to Apple. That is startup speed, not massive bureaucrazy-entangled corporation speed of SW development.

guineapig
Jun 11, 2013, 07:13 AM
If they really did this post-deforstallization, one has to give serious kudos to Apple. That is startup speed, not massive bureaucrazy-entangled corporation speed of SW development.
Ive design. Federighi software. Cue services. After that and after how Cook explained the core values and motivations behind everyone who works at Apple, how can you define it bureaucratic and rigid?
And especially after seeing what iOS7 is.

Jare
Jun 11, 2013, 07:14 AM
If they really did this post-deforstallization, one has to give serious kudos to Apple. That is startup speed, not massive bureaucrazy-entangled corporation speed of SW development.

Apple does consider themselves the worlds largest startup.

ItsWelshy
Jun 11, 2013, 07:21 AM
Care to comment on how there was barely a change in iOS 7, due to the lack of time they had to conceive and create it?

Oh, please do tell... tell me how has the fucntionality changed, other than the normal improvements?

App icons the same, just changed colours, grid UI the same, pages of apps the same.

Where are the widgets? where is the new UI moving away from the grid system? where is the new OS everyone was talking about?

The OS is the same.

guineapig
Jun 11, 2013, 07:37 AM
Oh, please do tell... tell me how has the fucntionality changed, other than the normal improvements?

App icons the same, just changed colours, grid UI the same, pages of apps the same.

Where are the widgets? where is the new UI moving away from the grid system? where is the new OS everyone was talking about?

The OS is the same.

If you really consider it just a change of colors, you're really looking at the finger and missing the moon.
The new notification center and control center do better than a thousand widgets that only bring clutter and let you know what time it is or what the weather's like in 20 different ways.
Let alone that nobody said there would be widgets or a shift from the grid system.
The new safari, the new multitasking bar (and system), the silent background updates, the redesigned calendar, weather and photos apps.
There are probably goint to be other new features announced along with the new iPhone, too.

You ventured into making wild guesses from the height of your experience, against all rumors and leaks that we saw, and now you don't even want to admit that you missed it completely.
Predictable at least.

I’m really hoping that no one is really expecting iOS7 to be influenced very much if at all by Jony Ive.

Anyone who understands the development lifecycle will know that Ive’s influence over this iOS version will be very limited, he’s only been in charge of design since Christmas.

I can see many on here being disappointed if there is a major, major overhaul, where everything looks completely different.

I’d expect some minor changes to the basic UI that Ive has implemented, but to say he’s had enough time to do anything major is extremely ignorant, and heaping way too much expectation on what he can deliver in such a small space of time. I would imagine that he’s had a backlog or developments already in progress in dev sprints and had little room for change

I’d expect a more ‘Ive style OS’ to be in iOS8 or even iOS9

No Ive bashing after the conference please!


:apple:

You even made it all about the UI.

omenatarhuri
Jun 11, 2013, 07:42 AM
Ive design. Federighi software. Cue services. After that and after how Cook explained the core values and motivations behind everyone who works at Apple, how can you define it bureaucratic and rigid?
And especially after seeing what iOS7 is.
That's what I say'eth. I'm impressed by their execution, given that it is a large company.

Wikipedia says 72,800 employees. Of course not nearly all are in R&D, but I daresay some other guys contributed then the three you mention. ;)

----------

Oh, please do tell... tell me how has the fucntionality changed, other than the normal improvements?

App icons the same, just changed colours, grid UI the same, pages of apps the same.

Where are the widgets? where is the new UI moving away from the grid system? where is the new OS everyone was talking about?

The OS is the same.
If Apple had gone overboard with creating a whole new usability paradigm, there would have been a backlash akin to Windows 8.

Even with these changes they are right about as close to how much you can change at a time before you upset your install base, as evidenced by the nay-sayers in the iOS7 subsection.

ItsWelshy
Jun 11, 2013, 07:50 AM
If you really consider it just a change of colors, you're really looking at the finger and missing the moon.
The new notification center and control center do better than a thousand widgets that only bring clutter and let you know what time it is or what the weather's like in 20 different ways.
Let alone that nobody said there would be widgets or a shift from the grid system.
The new safari, the new multitasking bar (and system), the silent background updates, the redesigned calendar, weather and photos apps.
There are probably goint to be other new features announced along with the new iPhone, too.

You ventured into making wild guesses from the height of your experience, against all rumors and leaks that we saw, and now you don't even want to admit that you missed it completely.
Predictable at least.



You even made it all about the UI.

Other than a colour change, it's the kind of small fucntionality updates we get with all new OS's? Or are you telling me that there was more functionality released in this update than in iOS6?

Zombiechow
Jun 11, 2013, 07:56 AM
I think that the OP is getting an unfair amount of criticism for a very well presented opinion. The fact of the matter is, he's probably correct.

The level of work required to conceptualize and implement an overhaul this large is mind boggling, which would suggest one of a few things.

1) Ive has been a part the development process since its inception and is responsible for every implementation, regardless of his promotion

2) The design team received design cues from Ive prior to his promotion, and were told to cut loose and design something.

3) Ive came late in the development and didn't have much much time to influence anything.

In any case, major refinements WILL happen.

But indeed, if Ive didn't start work on the project until the end of last year, I doubt we're seeing the full weight of what he's capable of. He's a god-tier designer, and i'm excited to see where the new direction goes.
Oh, please do tell... tell me how has the fucntionality changed, other than the normal improvements?

App icons the same, just changed colours, grid UI the same, pages of apps the same.

Where are the widgets? where is the new UI moving away from the grid system? where is the new OS everyone was talking about?

The OS is the same.

I absolutely agree. This is not a Windows 8 style update with fundamental changes to the basic user experience. This is a fresh coat of paint with normal incremental update type stuff and a few nifty additions (control center). There's also some nice new stuff going on under the hood.

Your apps are launched the same way. The function the same way. Your settings are in the same place and are toggled exactly the same way. Multi-tasking has changed a bit, but if anything, it's EASIER to close a program that you don't want running now.

This is NOT a Windows 8 style interface change.

guineapig
Jun 11, 2013, 08:24 AM
Other than a colour change, it's the kind of small fucntionality updates we get with all new OS's? Or are you telling me that there was more functionality released in this update than in iOS6?

You started this thread talking about how Jony Ive's input would have had a really small impact on the UI.
Nobody expected iOS to shift entirely to a windows8-like control style.
What was predicted, rumoured and leaked was a massive change in the UI, the look and feel of the OS, from glossy and skeumorphic to flat, with plain color and gradients. And I bet that you haven't tried it out on your phone yet. If you had, you would recognize that not only the looks (that you can see from the screenshots) but also the overall feel of the UI have changed deeply.
You said that it's still the same iOS. You're right, it is. But nobody was expecting it to change in its foundations, in its core mechanics. Otherwise it would have been called something else than iOS.

syd430
Jun 11, 2013, 08:38 AM
Take a look at Mac OS 10.0.4 compared to Mac OS 10.8.4

Image (http://www.guidebookgallery.org/pics/gui/desktop/firstrun/macosx100.png)

vs.

Image (http://skotgat.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/about_mac.png)



Weird, I know it says 10.8 but that's not the ML dock.

chrf097
Jun 11, 2013, 08:40 AM
Weird, I know it says 10.8 but that's not the ML dock.

I just noticed that too...huh...

ajvizzgamer101
Jun 11, 2013, 08:42 AM
I’m really hoping that no one is really expecting iOS7 to be influenced very much if at all by Jony Ive.

Anyone who understands the development lifecycle will know that Ive’s influence over this iOS version will be very limited, he’s only been in charge of design since Christmas.

I can see many on here being disappointed if there is a major, major overhaul, where everything looks completely different.

I’d expect some minor changes to the basic UI that Ive has implemented, but to say he’s had enough time to do anything major is extremely ignorant, and heaping way too much expectation on what he can deliver in such a small space of time. I would imagine that he’s had a backlog or developments already in progress in dev sprints and had little room for change

I’d expect a more ‘Ive style OS’ to be in iOS8 or even iOS9

No Ive bashing after the conference please!


:apple:

The look and feel is 100% influenced by Jony Ives. Features like Control Center were probably implemented long ago under iOS 6 UI.

syd430
Jun 11, 2013, 08:42 AM
Oh, please do tell... tell me how has the fucntionality changed, other than the normal improvements?

App icons the same, just changed colours, grid UI the same, pages of apps the same.

Where are the widgets? where is the new UI moving away from the grid system? where is the new OS everyone was talking about?

The OS is the same.

Dude, the whole thing has been completely redone. Spare us the crap about widgets.

Give it up.

ItsWelshy
Jun 11, 2013, 08:52 AM
Dude, the whole thing has been completely redone. Spare us the crap about widgets.

Give it up.

A coat of paint and the normal incremental functional updates doesn't equal 'Completely redone'

The biggest change, and what people are most talking about are the app icons.

guineapig
Jun 11, 2013, 08:53 AM
The biggest change, and what people are most talking about are the app icons.
People who have only seen screenshots.
Can you answer my post please? ;)

ItsWelshy
Jun 11, 2013, 09:02 AM
I think that the OP is getting an unfair amount of criticism for a very well presented opinion. The fact of the matter is, he's probably correct.

The level of work required to conceptualize and implement an overhaul this large is mind boggling, which would suggest one of a few things.

1) Ive has been a part the development process since its inception and is responsible for every implementation, regardless of his promotion

2) The design team received design cues from Ive prior to his promotion, and were told to cut loose and design something.

3) Ive came late in the development and didn't have much much time to influence anything.

In any case, major refinements WILL happen.

But indeed, if Ive didn't start work on the project until the end of last year, I doubt we're seeing the full weight of what he's capable of. He's a god-tier designer, and i'm excited to see where the new direction goes.


I absolutely agree. This is not a Windows 8 style update with fundamental changes to the basic user experience. This is a fresh coat of paint with normal incremental update type stuff and a few nifty additions (control center). There's also some nice new stuff going on under the hood.

Your apps are launched the same way. The function the same way. Your settings are in the same place and are toggled exactly the same way. Multi-tasking has changed a bit, but if anything, it's EASIER to close a program that you don't want running now.

This is NOT a Windows 8 style interface change.

Thank you! you've put that better than I ever could!

I wanted people not to bash Ive when this came out as it's highly likely that Ive had little to do with this release.

Could you imagine ripping up the dev backlog they would have had to implement a lot of the normal functional changes? And for Ive to come in at the back of last year and make major changes would have been near on impossible. And probably set the whole release schedule back months.

I think we’re going to see the best of Ive in iOS8 and iOS9

I still find it slightly amusing that people think that someone can come in a Christmas and make wholesale changes to a UI and be good to go in June, but in saying that, people seem to think that iOS7 is a ‘Completely redone’ OS

Thanks for your post, very sensible and thought out.

----------

You started this thread talking about how Jony Ive's input would have had a really small impact on the UI.
Nobody expected iOS to shift entirely to a windows8-like control style.
What was predicted, rumoured and leaked was a massive change in the UI, the look and feel of the OS, from glossy and skeumorphic to flat, with plain color and gradients. And I bet that you haven't tried it out on your phone yet. If you had, you would recognize that not only the looks (that you can see from the screenshots) but also the overall feel of the UI have changed deeply.
You said that it's still the same iOS. You're right, it is. But nobody was expecting it to change in its foundations, in its core mechanics. Otherwise it would have been called something else than iOS.

People here were talking up the fact Ive was going to completely redo the OS and change the fundimental grid system and core mechanics

The OS and UI are the same as iOS6, with the normal yearly enhancements and a lick of paint.

Don't get me wrong, I love the lick of paint and the improvements, but this isn't the wholesale change most were wanting/predicting

Crzyrio
Jun 11, 2013, 09:05 AM
Other than a colour change, it's the kind of small fucntionality updates we get with all new OS's? Or are you telling me that there was more functionality released in this update than in iOS6?

New notification center, control center, multitasking layout where you are able to view the full app, new folders. camera filters, photo collections, notification centre on lock screen.

All that along with the UI changes, makes it a fairly huge update

syd430
Jun 11, 2013, 09:05 AM
A coat of paint and the normal incremental functional updates doesn't equal 'Completely redone'

The biggest change, and what people are most talking about are the app icons.

Right so a parallax homescreen, translucency throughout half the OS, algorithms that change the color of text and overall look dependent on the color of the wallpaper, hundreds of new features and settings, new gestures system wide, all animations redone, all UI elements redone, that's considered "normal incremental functional updates"?

The jump from iOS 6 -> iOS 7 is monumental. The only way that it's the same is that it's still built on the same OS X foundation.

matttye
Jun 11, 2013, 09:09 AM
I think that the OP is getting an unfair amount of criticism for a very well presented opinion. The fact of the matter is, he's probably correct.

Tim Cook said Ive had a lot of influence in this OS. Tim would know more than anybody on this forum...

ItsWelshy
Jun 11, 2013, 09:14 AM
New notification center, control center, multitasking layout where you are able to view the full app, new folders. camera filters, photo collections, notification centre on lock screen.

All that along with the UI changes, makes it a fairly huge update

The normal yearly enhancements... No better than iOS5's list of updates:

Wireless Sync
iMessages
Notification Centre
Twitter and Facebook integration
Email app upgrades
Airplay and wireless mirroring
Enhanced camera control
Photostreams
Facetime over 3G
iCloud (all new)
Location based reminder system
New apps for Video and Music
Split Keyboard
Custom tones
All new Newsstand
Redesigned Safari with tabbed browsing
HD support for 3G
Weather app update
And Multitasking.

guineapig
Jun 11, 2013, 09:15 AM
People here were talking up the fact Ive was going to completely redo the OS and change the fundimental grid system and core mechanics.
Not people, you were. And you were right, he didn't change those things. But again, nobody was expecting him to.
Other than this and what I already said, I'd say I agree with syd430.

syd430
Jun 11, 2013, 09:35 AM
People here were talking up the fact Ive was going to completely redo the OS and change the fundimental grid system and core mechanics


"Change the core mechanics". What does that even mean? The kernel? the architecture? the fact that it's based on UNIX? what? Please enlighten me. Don't worry I come from a technical background.

If you meant UI animations and the way elements interact, then yes it has virtually been redone from the ground up. If you meant the other things, well, that wouldn't even be possible without completely new hardware.

I'm not sure you understand what you're saying.

Michaelgtrusa
Jun 11, 2013, 09:41 AM
The Ive hate!

err404
Jun 11, 2013, 09:46 AM
Overall I agree with ItsWelshy. While iOS did get a lot of nice improvements, many of the real meat and potatoes changes where likely under development before Ives took over. Given the time that Ives had, I suspect that most of his contribution was with the re-skin.
I don't mean this as a knock to Ives. He did a great job performing a deep re-skin that makes the OS feel fresh.
But ask yourself this, if iOS7 came out with all of the same features, but the icons and skin of iOS6, would you have been happy or disappointed? I feel that many would have been disappointed and the forums would be filled with posts about how all Apple did was steal SBSettings.
For the record I prefer the deeper, less obvious OS changes over UI re-skins. I thought iOS 6 was a nice improvement over iOS 5 under the hood.
That said, I am very excited for iOS 7. To be honest, I'm more excited for the API and multitasking changes than the UI. I would bet these where under development well before Ives took the reigns.
I would like to add that Ives seems to show very strong leadership potential. Keeping the team on track and focused after a management shake up was probably harder then any technical or aesthetic change.

matttye
Jun 11, 2013, 09:55 AM
"Change the core mechanics". What does that even mean? The kernel? the architecture? the fact that it's based on UNIX? what? Please enlighten me. Don't worry I come from a technical background.

If you meant UI animations and the way elements interact, then yes it has virtually been redone from the ground up. If you meant the other things, well, that wouldn't even be possible without completely new hardware.

I'm not sure you understand what you're saying.

He means losing the icon grid and having widgets, or live tiles or some such feature I believe.

I can't see that happening as Apple has always tried to provide a nice feature set for apps to take advantage of, but they want you to spend most of your time IN APPS.

mklaman
Jun 11, 2013, 10:13 AM
so this "itswelshy" character comes in and gives a terrible prediction, is proven wrong, and then still tries to fight like this isn't a overhaul? oh boy.

:confused:

comatose81
Jun 11, 2013, 10:14 AM
Someone needs to lock this nonsense.

Are you Jony Ive's son or something? Who cares how people judge the new design and whether they attribute it to Jony or not?

If people absolutely loved iOS 7 should they be careful not to give him any credit since it wasn't really him making the changes?

madmaxmedia
Jun 11, 2013, 11:27 AM
To OP: Who said any different than your original post? Who said that there would be a total fundamental re-design of the core user interface, that there would be no more app icons in a grid?

By 're-design', people were basically talking about exactly what was shown- a major cosmetic overhaul, along with a lot of new functionality. NO ONE was expecting a completely new paradigm for smartphone user experience.

You can say this is what you meant, that's fine we get it. But that's what pretty much everyone else meant too! I guess you might have read some people posting about a total re-invention of the smartphone, but that's not most people were expecting. What people WERE expecting is the biggest change to the appearance of the OS since iOS 1, which is exactly what we got.

The reason for all the hooplah and criticism in this thread is that it feels like you set up a straw-man argument (even if that's not what you meant.)