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MacRumors
Jun 10, 2013, 01:13 PM
http://images.macrumors.com/im/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2013/06/10/apple-announces-iwork-for-icloud-for-both-mac-and-ios/)


At today's WWDC keynote event, Apple announced iWork for iCloud, a new version of iWork that is coming later this year and delivering the ability to use iWork apps in the user's browser. iWork in iCloud brings Apple's iWork software suite to the web, and on stage, the company demonstrated Keynote, Numbers, and Pages operating in a browser window.

http://images.macrumors.com/article-new/2013/06/iwork.jpg
The apps are also designed to work seamlessly with Microsoft documents. For example, a Microsoft Word document dragged into Pages for iCloud will be converted and easily read.

In addition to working on iOS and Mac, iWork for iCloud also works on Windows computers and in other browsers, like Chrome. In fact, it supports Chrome, Safari, and Internet Explorer, bringing iWork to a broad array of devices.

iWork for iCloud is available today for developers and will be offered to other users later in the year.

Article Link: Apple Announces 'iWork for iCloud' for In-Browser Use (http://www.macrumors.com/2013/06/10/apple-announces-iwork-for-icloud-for-both-mac-and-ios/)



badlydrawnboy
Jun 10, 2013, 01:48 PM
Was I hearing things, or did he also say that they'd be releasing new desktop versions of the iWork apps later this year?

JohnDoe98
Jun 10, 2013, 02:13 PM
Was I hearing things, or did he also say that they'd be releasing new desktop versions of the iWork apps later this year?

You heard right, new versions coming later.

unplugme71
Jun 10, 2013, 02:28 PM
You heard right, new versions coming later.

sweet!

~Shard~
Jun 10, 2013, 02:40 PM
Very much looking forward to a new version of iWork later this year. Long overdue!

kjs862
Jun 10, 2013, 02:47 PM
This was my favorite part of the event, though iOS7 is pretty cool too. I think the expanded functionality to iCloud was more needed than a GUI update to iOS.

JGIGS
Jun 10, 2013, 02:59 PM
Let me have any document in iCloud. Most of us use office. Looks like google drive or drop box is the real way to go if you don't want this dumb limitiation.

Wolfpup
Jun 10, 2013, 03:01 PM
Huh...well, if we're lucky it'll be better than Google Docs, although I'd be surprised if they can beat Microsoft.

They DESPERATELY need to fix the iWork programs for iOS. The save/load interface for iWork on iOS is beyond insane. I can't believe Steve Jobs or whomever signed off on that. I mean it's more complicated and bizarre than an early 80s DOS based computer.

tubular
Jun 10, 2013, 03:19 PM
AT LAST. Totally tubular.

yojo056
Jun 10, 2013, 03:31 PM
Im surprised about this one. There was an iWorks in the Cloud beta that ended almost 2 years ago...

vmachiel
Jun 10, 2013, 03:36 PM
Sweet! This is free?

Nalmond92
Jun 10, 2013, 04:02 PM
so there is no point in getting the desktop apps??? :confused:

bigwig
Jun 10, 2013, 04:07 PM
I hope the new desktop versions add much needed functionality. Like Numbers being rather incomplete when it comes to Excel function support. LibreOffice is much more complete. ODF support would be nice too.

Boris A
Jun 10, 2013, 04:16 PM
You heard right, new versions coming later.

I imagined the same, which was a huge relief. But what was said exactly? It was dropped in such a by-the-way fashion it's hard to tell.

saberahul
Jun 10, 2013, 04:18 PM
Sweet! This is free?
Would love to know this too. Anyone know?

JohnDoe98
Jun 10, 2013, 04:21 PM
I imagined the same, which was a huge relief. But what was said exactly? It was dropped in such a by-the-way fashion it's hard to tell.

Don't remember the exact words, but he said new versions for OS X and iOS coming later this fall, then just moved on to demo iWork in the Cloud.

fricotin
Jun 10, 2013, 04:40 PM
If I was buying iWork now would I have to pay for the upgrade when it comes later in the year ?

IJ Reilly
Jun 10, 2013, 04:54 PM
so there is no point in getting the desktop apps??? :confused:

Really unclear, but I got the impression that the browser-based version is intended as a companion to the desktop version, not a replacement. Despite what was demonstrated, I think it would be very difficult to incorporate all the functionality of desktop iWork into the browser. They haven't managed that for the iOS version.

----------

Don't remember the exact words, but he said new versions for OS X and iOS coming later this fall, then just moved on to demo iWork in the Cloud.

I heard a little bit more than that. He talked about creating documents on your Mac and then being able to edit them in a web browser in Windows. This wording suggests that Apple still views iWork on the Mac as the center of the iWork universe.

AppleMark
Jun 10, 2013, 05:03 PM
So with iWork for iCloud, you will able to start working on one document and then the US government [through PRISM, or another data harvesting method] can read it on another.

No thanks.

MikhailT
Jun 10, 2013, 05:13 PM
My concern is this, the upcoming OS X app won't get any new features, it's just being updated to support the iCloud improvements but nothing else. That's why they didn't demo anything.

As for PRISM concerns, yea, that's true for any data services. You'll have to stay offline to avoid PRISM.

Deedlez
Jun 10, 2013, 06:16 PM
I've literally just switched from my Win7 VM where I was trying to install Office 2013 from Office 365.

Couldn't install it, due to the astonishingly detailed error "A problem has occurred" from the installer. And that's all you get, no clues at all where the error is - with their website, the installer, the internet connection, time of day, my shoe size, sunspots.

Hopeless idiots.

So a good time to then spot iWork improvements! Bye bye Microsoft. You are in serious trouble when your Office cash cow dies...

numbersyx
Jun 10, 2013, 07:04 PM
If I was buying iWork now would have to pay for the upgrade when it comes later in the year ?

I suspect you would....

happyslayer
Jun 10, 2013, 07:21 PM
Just logged into the beta site... now it shows up for me on me.com. (I am a developer.) So far, it works as shown in the keynote. Though it did take a bit more time to open my existing documents. (The Apple sites are slammed right now.) Very nice though! Very excited to see the beginnings of an iWork update.

KALLT
Jun 10, 2013, 07:41 PM
My concern is this, the upcoming OS X app won't get any new features, it's just being updated to support the iCloud improvements but nothing else. That's why they didn't demo anything.

It could very well be that there was simply nothing to show yet. If I remember correctly, there were still vacancies for iWork-related projects at Apple only recently, which may suggest that this is still an ongoing process. iWork is also typically one of those products that are released immediately after their announcement, so it makes sense to present it at another keynote. That being said, the fact that they do give priority to a webapp rather than updating the Mac app is indeed a bit worrying. Since Apple does seek compatibility with the webapp now too, it may mean that we won't see any substantial updates for the iWork Mac app, other than enhanced compatibility with iCloud.

jnlauderdale
Jun 10, 2013, 10:02 PM
Can someone explain how iWork for iCloud can support IE if no version exists for the Mac platform? Are they saying it will support IE if you are on a PC?

thefourthpope
Jun 10, 2013, 10:22 PM
I'm so *********g sick of docs in the cloud. Roughly every third time I open one of these apps on my iPad it sits spinning waiting to update (wi-fi at home, work, wherever), says I can't open the file because options have changed, that formatting is different from the desktop version, or that it has to make a duplicate copy. That last one is the most annoying; I end up with three versions of the same Keynote and have to flip through or remember which one was the one that I did change. Just give me back that damn iDisk/Dropbox option.

Glad to hear they're coming out with new desktop versions. Hopefully they'll actually play with the iOS ones.

----------

Can someone explain how iWork for iCloud can support IE if no version exists for the Mac platform? Are they saying it will support IE if you are on a PC?

Yes. That seems to be much of the point of the online option: you can use it on any compatible browser, regardless of the platform.

ChrisA
Jun 10, 2013, 10:42 PM
Sweet! This is free?

I had the same question too. Who will they get people to pay for it? Subscribe to a web site? So it seem like it would have to be free

But then if this is free why would anyone buy the desktop apps? Maybe the entire suite is going to be free now.

BTW, I just finished my first "real" or "serious" work g=using Google Docs and I was very impressed with the way it let's three people all edit the SAME documant at the same time. There is a chat window and we could post things like "second to last paragraph is weak, I'll fix it, got any ideas?" and then we can all watch each other make edits in real time.

Google Doc is free, Apple has to compete with a very good free product and with Office too. How to do that? Offer a better free product that even runs in Windows PC. I think Apple is aiming to kill Office. Maybe in 5 or 10 years??

CmdrLaForge
Jun 11, 2013, 12:01 AM
I was really surprised by this. Came out of nowwhere. Fantastic this is me thinks. And I am looking forward to the new apps later this year.

I never bought keynote because I have to little use for it but with this there is no newd for me to buy it to create a presentation once in a while.

NAG
Jun 11, 2013, 01:34 AM
I was really surprised by this. Came out of nowwhere. Fantastic this is me thinks. And I am looking forward to the new apps later this year.

I never bought keynote because I have to little use for it but with this there is no newd for me to buy it to create a presentation once in a while.

It didn't really come out of nowhere. They pretty much admitted they were doing this when they canned iWork.com beta. What I'm surprised about is they didn't show any collaboration features (which is pretty much all you could do on iWork.com beta).

hovercast
Jun 11, 2013, 01:34 AM
I had the same question too. Who will they get people to pay for it? Subscribe to a web site? So it seem like it would have to be free

But then if this is free why would anyone buy the desktop apps? Maybe the entire suite is going to be free now.

BTW, I just finished my first "real" or "serious" work g=using Google Docs and I was very impressed with the way it let's three people all edit the SAME documant at the same time. There is a chat window and we could post things like "second to last paragraph is weak, I'll fix it, got any ideas?" and then we can all watch each other make edits in real time.

Google Doc is free, Apple has to compete with a very good free product and with Office too. How to do that? Offer a better free product that even runs in Windows PC. I think Apple is aiming to kill Office. Maybe in 5 or 10 years??

You still need the desktop apps to edit offline.
So if its free, someone with a cheap windows computer who is too poor to pay for office can just go to icloud and use iwork for free. This would be awesome!
It has the potential of disrupting the MS office cash cow.

Astroexe
Jun 11, 2013, 03:00 AM
Can someone explain how iWork for iCloud can support IE if no version exists for the Mac platform? Are they saying it will support IE if you are on a PC?

Did you WATCH the keynote?! iWork! on a PC! in a WEB BROWSER.

numlock
Jun 11, 2013, 04:17 AM
I had the same question too. Who will they get people to pay for it? Subscribe to a web site? So it seem like it would have to be free

But then if this is free why would anyone buy the desktop apps? Maybe the entire suite is going to be free now.

BTW, I just finished my first "real" or "serious" work g=using Google Docs and I was very impressed with the way it let's three people all edit the SAME documant at the same time. There is a chat window and we could post things like "second to last paragraph is weak, I'll fix it, got any ideas?" and then we can all watch each other make edits in real time.

Google Doc is free, Apple has to compete with a very good free product and with Office too. How to do that? Offer a better free product that even runs in Windows PC. I think Apple is aiming to kill Office. Maybe in 5 or 10 years??

they are never going to catch google docs. if we discount all of apples office apps experience before iwork then google docs is only a bit older and google docs is constantly being improved while iwork is ignored.

why not just put their weight behind libreoffice and that movement? they can do their fancy online app with them surely.

apple is spreading itself thin to compete in markets it dosent really care about in the long run. which if i recall is the opposite of the advice jobs gave to google

phoenixsan
Jun 11, 2013, 06:48 AM
too much guessing from the Mac community, Apple shows us iWork is not dead. Good news indeed and a good showing of how much wrong predictions can come, included mine. Really I was expecting an iOS only, if any.....:o


:):apple:

jlc1978
Jun 11, 2013, 07:30 AM
they are never going to catch google docs. if we discount all of apples office apps experience before iwork then google docs is only a bit older and google docs is constantly being improved while iwork is ignored.

While they haven't updated it in a while I would hardly say they ignored it. More likely, iWorks was a less important part of Apple's move to a cloud based content delivery model. As other parts matured they turned their attention to document creation. They did do a beta a while back which surely gave them so insights into how to do it across tablets, computers and other connected devices.

why not just put their weight behind libreoffice and that movement? they can do their fancy online app with them surely.

They wouldn't own it and couldn't control the user experience.

apple is spreading itself thin to compete in markets it dosent really care about in the long run. which if i recall is the opposite of the advice jobs gave to google

Actually, I see it as Apple moving to expand and consolidate on a cloud based delivery model. If you view content as the centerpiece of their strategy this move fits in well.

numlock
Jun 11, 2013, 08:11 AM
While they haven't updated it in a while I would hardly say they ignored it. More likely, iWorks was a less important part of Apple's move to a cloud based content delivery model. As other parts matured they turned their attention to document creation. They did do a beta a while back which surely gave them so insights into how to do it across tablets, computers and other connected devices.



They wouldn't own it and couldn't control the user experience.



Actually, I see it as Apple moving to expand and consolidate on a cloud based delivery model. If you view content as the centerpiece of their strategy this move fits in well.

my view is mostly based on numbers because thats the app i use mostly (be it libreoffice, google docs, excel etc) as far as i know pages and especially keynote are rated highly. there are lots of basic features like pivot tables that are not even available and while you watch offerings like googles and openoffice/libreoffice in many ways blows past iwork both in features and usage then yes it is being ignored.


no they wouldnt own or control it but there would actually be a community of users and it would be a real alternative to ms office. nobody really uses this or will use it. so i ask controlling what user experience? i myself gave up and use google docs or libreoffice.

well fine if apple was actually great in everything they did but they have become so focused on their touch device(s) that they ignore so much and as we see are just now adding features that jb´s had 5-6 years ago. their venture in businesses like iwork, icloud, maps, imovie, facetime (although audio only is exciting) etc just to try and push the existing entities out of the way while a) offering worse solutions and b) not really giving it enough attention in the long run that they are competitive products.

chrono1081
Jun 11, 2013, 08:50 AM
I'm personally really happy about this.

I hate Microsoft Office. Its too cluttered for my simple office needs so I use iWork instead.

It'll be great to be able to use it in a browser while at work.

jayducharme
Jun 11, 2013, 08:55 AM
Can someone explain how iWork for iCloud can support IE if no version exists for the Mac platform? Are they saying it will support IE if you are on a PC?

All you need for this to work is an iCloud account. If you have the iWork suite on a Mac, you can continue working offline. But if not (as with a PC), you can work on your documents via iCloud.

I'm really glad about this. The current syncing system between Macs and iDevices is okay (better than nothing), but I'm still not happy with the iDevice interfaces. I mean, needing three separate steps just to make an indent? Really? So hopefully the iCloud interface will be as simple and intuitive as the Mac version. Then I won't need the iDevice version unless I'm offline and desperate.

szw-mapple fan
Jun 11, 2013, 09:10 AM
Was I hearing things, or did he also say that they'd be releasing new desktop versions of the iWork apps later this year?

YES!! I can't wait! It's long overdue.

:D

drewrockett
Jun 11, 2013, 10:30 AM
I think the biggest feature here is not having to convert your keynote into powerpoint if the presentation system doesn't have a convenient laptop hookup. Now you can fire up a browser and present that way.

IJ Reilly
Jun 11, 2013, 12:43 PM
I think the biggest feature here is not having to convert your keynote into powerpoint if the presentation system doesn't have a convenient laptop hookup. Now you can fire up a browser and present that way.

Might be, but I wouldn't get too excited by this potential just yet. Is the cloud version of iWork feature compatible with the desktop or even the iOS version? I'm going to take a wild guess and say not, if only because the iOS version is not feature compatible with the desktop version today. Creating on the desktop and presenting on the iPad still requires some planning and testing.

JohnDoe98
Jun 11, 2013, 04:01 PM
Really unclear, but I got the impression that the browser-based version is intended as a companion to the desktop version, not a replacement. Despite what was demonstrated, I think it would be very difficult to incorporate all the functionality of desktop iWork into the browser. They haven't managed that for the iOS version.

----------



I heard a little bit more than that. He talked about creating documents on your Mac and then being able to edit them in a web browser in Windows. This wording suggests that Apple still views iWork on the Mac as the center of the iWork universe.

Yep, your right. Also regarding your first point to the other forum member, it's possible the browser versions of iWork will only be enabled if you purchased the desktop or iOS versions, dunno.

----------

My concern is this, the upcoming OS X app won't get any new features, it's just being updated to support the iCloud improvements but nothing else. That's why they didn't demo anything.

As for PRISM concerns, yea, that's true for any data services. You'll have to stay offline to avoid PRISM.

Doubt it, because then why would they say that they are working on new versions? Also, if you look at the Apple website's description of Mavericks, one thing they mention about iBooks is now you can copy a passage from your books when writing an essay and it'll automatically include the citation information for you. Presumably this feature will be because of some integration of iBooks and iWork, so it does seem like there will be new features.

----------

Might be, but I wouldn't get too excited by this potential just yet. Is the cloud version of iWork feature compatible with the desktop or even the iOS version? I'm going to take a wild guess and say not, if only because the iOS version is not feature compatible with the desktop version today. Creating on the desktop and presenting on the iPad still requires some planning and testing.

True, but the feature parity point has been the biggest complaint regarding iWork, so since we have new versions of both iOS and OS X coming, I'd imagine it would be a major letdown if they don't address this issue. Perhaps I'm too optimistic but I think the new suite will finally get it right.

kockgunner
Jun 11, 2013, 04:17 PM
Remember, this is all in a browser!

Seriously, what they showed at WWDC was very impressive. One thing I never liked about Google's offering was how it felt like a web app. Sometimes it doesn't capture your keys can you can't just do stuff like Command + C/V, or drag images into a document.

If iWork works as expected, it shows Apple is capable enough to compete in the cloud space.

512ke
Jun 11, 2013, 05:24 PM
Great!!!

Now how about letting a BROWSER access my iCloud email???

carp3tshark
Jun 11, 2013, 06:25 PM
Apple acquired EditGrid in October 2009 for an undisclosed amount, one that was valued by outside sources at between 10-30 million dollars. I don't think it was specifically for their spreadsheet but a combo of the spreadsheet and mostly the online editing collaborative environment.

I find it interesting what some people consider to be "basic features" - some cite Pivot Tables or data validation, or what most would consider to be some really high-end functions as being "basic". The studies done on spreadsheets and office docs in general show that the majority of users only use a fraction of the "features".

Microsoft has 30+ years of engineering and untold millions of dollars spent on development. I think there is room for competition but at the same time each consumer is judging each app's worth (like numbers) based on their compatibility, matching every feature identically, with that of Microsoft Office, all while not being a Microsoft product.

JohnDoe98
Jun 11, 2013, 06:28 PM
Great!!!

Now how about letting a BROWSER access my iCloud email???

?? It's the first icon top left when you sign into iCloud.

Shaun, UK
Jun 11, 2013, 06:35 PM
I'm a little puzzled by the new iWork for iCloud. I'm not clear if this is an entirely new product or if it simply takes what we can already do with Mac/iOS iCloud document sharing and extends it to the Windows PC environment?

Personally I think they should just buy Dropbox as it's one of the best software products I've used for years.

Either way I'm looking forward to seeing what they've been doing with iWork for the past few years. I hope there is a new version of iLife at the same time.

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It has the potential of disrupting the MS office cash cow.

Maybe Apple got a little tired of waiting for MS to release the Mac version on the AppStore and come out with an iOS version. Give Monkey Boy a little something to think about.

jlc1978
Jun 11, 2013, 09:17 PM
my view is mostly based on numbers because thats the app i use mostly (be it libreoffice, google docs, excel etc) as far as i know pages and especially keynote are rated highly. there are lots of basic features like pivot tables that are not even available and while you watch offerings like googles and openoffice/libreoffice in many ways blows past iwork both in features and usage then yes it is being ignored.

Considering most people that use a spreadsheet have no idea what a pivot table is, let alone use one, would make me not consider it a basic feature. if anything, I'd like to see Apple spend more time on formatting than adding advanced feature sets.

no they wouldnt own or control it but there would actually be a community of users and it would be a real alternative to ms office. nobody really uses this or will use it. so i ask controlling what user experience? i myself gave up and use google docs or libreoffice.

Libre/Open/Neo Office is a pretty big bag of hurt if you view from an Apple design perspective; let alone compatibility. It would make no sense for Apple to try to turn it into something to put the Apple brand on even if only by inference.

JonneyGee
Jun 11, 2013, 11:44 PM
The big thing that will kill iWork in the cloud for me is fonts. Pages on iPad is far less useful than it could be for me primarily due to this restriction, and I expect iWork for iCloud to have the same problem. It there was a way to install fonts, it would be great, but I doubt there will be. I'm holding out hope that maybe this will eventually happen on iOS devices… it's a must have for designers.

IJ Reilly
Jun 11, 2013, 11:50 PM
True, but the feature parity point has been the biggest complaint regarding iWork, so since we have new versions of both iOS and OS X coming, I'd imagine it would be a major letdown if they don't address this issue. Perhaps I'm too optimistic but I think the new suite will finally get it right.

Including all of the features of a large, complex desktop app in a touch UI app presents significant design issues. I think the pared-down iOS version of the iWork apps was a deliberate effort to implement them appropriately on that platform. Probably the same will hold true for the cloud version. So I don't think it was a matter of getting it wrong, and in fact is more about getting it right. Apple has never gone in for feature cram and I would not expect that philosophy to change.

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The big thing that will kill iWork in the cloud for me is fonts. Pages on iPad is far less useful than it could be for me primarily due to this restriction, and I expect iWork for iCloud to have the same problem. It there was a way to install fonts, it would be great, but I doubt there will be. I'm holding out hope that maybe this will eventually happen on iOS devices… it's a must have for designers.

Totally agree, and not just for designers.

JohnDoe98
Jun 11, 2013, 11:54 PM
Including all of the features of a large, complex desktop app in a touch UI app presents significant design issues. I think the pared-down iOS version of the iWork apps was a deliberate effort to implement them appropriately on that platform. Probably the same will hold true for the cloud version. So I don't think it was a matter of getting it wrong, and in fact is more about getting it right. Apple has never gone in for feature cram and I would not expect that philosophy to change.

Well they have to figure something out because either way isn't good. If they add in feature parity, then those features won't fit in nicely to the touch UI (though if you look at how they managed iPhoto and the filters and similar tweaks, it was done quite well). That much I agree with. But on the other hand, if they don't do it, then you are stuck with multiple copies of a file and the syncing between iOS devices and OS X doesn't work properly, or worst case, you are limited to the feature set of the iOS suite if you want syncing to work properly.

So either way there are problems. I rather they enable comments and similar things in the touch UI in a manner that is a little awkward, if it means I can finally sync my iWork documents properly without resorting to duplicates or data loss. In others words, syncing the files without stripping them of content is the #1 priority. Design the UI around that.

numlock
Jun 12, 2013, 04:10 AM
Considering most people that use a spreadsheet have no idea what a pivot table is, let alone use one, would make me not consider it a basic feature. if anything, I'd like to see Apple spend more time on formatting than adding advanced feature sets.



Libre/Open/Neo Office is a pretty big bag of hurt if you view from an Apple design perspective; let alone compatibility. It would make no sense for Apple to try to turn it into something to put the Apple brand on even if only by inference.


they may not know it by name but what do iwork user do when they want to see data drawn together and be able to make sense of it.

you may call that an advanced feature. it was just at the top of my head. what about filters?

maybe everything but summing up 3 columns is advanced?

btw if everything is so advanced for the common iwork user why create new document formats that most of them will probably send the file in to a non iwork user?

but when iwork first came out i really liked how they allowed you to drag in formulas, see the result for few kinds of formulas etc but if you dont follow that up feature set and updates who cares?

i just dont see apple being serious about creating the best office application (dosent mean it has to have the best set of feature), or the best cloud syncing, or the best maps application, best password syncing, best browser etc etc. unless they prove me wrong with the next iwork suite they just let it sit there and i worry that will happen into most of their new ventures. they are more a disruptor and divider to me as it stands. what was the last market they entered where without a doubt they have the best offering today?

apple just went through a big bag of hurt updating the appearance on their ios and mac. i never said put the apple brand on it. i said put their weight behind it. they can assist with the ui and make it more accessible for the less "advanced" users.

Microsoft has 30+ years of engineering and untold millions of dollars spent on development. I think there is room for competition but at the same time each consumer is judging each app's worth (like numbers) based on their compatibility, matching every feature identically, with that of Microsoft Office, all while not being a Microsoft product.

i wouldnt agree with thats how they are judging it. i think they judge everything based on their usage and needs and when people need something that isnt there thats when say something.

you also realize that apple has many many years of experience in the office apps world?

btw i wasnt aware that apple bought editgrid. for a long time i thought it surpassed google sheets and had more advanced and better features. they probably still do since google has killed a few things off. for instance it was much easier using editgrid to get data of other websites.

princigalli
Jun 12, 2013, 06:38 AM
So with iWork for iCloud, you will able to start working on one document and then the US government [through PRISM, or another data harvesting method] can read it on another.

No thanks.

I don't think they would care about my documents

haravikk
Jun 12, 2013, 07:17 AM
Browser versions are interesting, but I'm most interested in the desktop version of the apps, as that's where all the best features and performance still are.

Being able to do stuff in a browser is fine, but what about sharing/collaboration? Those are the things that most appealed to me about iWork.com, which Apple helpfully shut down.

JayCee842
Jun 12, 2013, 08:43 AM
I wonder if they'll update the desktop version?

numlock
Jun 12, 2013, 09:07 AM
I wonder if they'll update the desktop version?

they said something along the lines that they would release awesome versions/updates for mac and ios soon

AppleMark
Jun 12, 2013, 09:42 AM
I don't think they would care about my documents

Possibly not. They would not be interested in mine either, but that's not the point.

The fact that they can access and read them, [without my knowledge and consent] to determine that they are not very interesting, is the point.

IJ Reilly
Jun 12, 2013, 10:07 AM
Well they have to figure something out because either way isn't good. If they add in feature parity, then those features won't fit in nicely to the touch UI (though if you look at how they managed iPhoto and the filters and similar tweaks, it was done quite well). That much I agree with. But on the other hand, if they don't do it, then you are stuck with multiple copies of a file and the syncing between iOS devices and OS X doesn't work properly, or worst case, you are limited to the feature set of the iOS suite if you want syncing to work properly.

So either way there are problems. I rather they enable comments and similar things in the touch UI in a manner that is a little awkward, if it means I can finally sync my iWork documents properly without resorting to duplicates or data loss. In others words, syncing the files without stripping them of content is the #1 priority. Design the UI around that.

Perhaps, but as another poster pointed out above, without font support, the entire multi-platform concept is hamstrung by definition. We use a "non-standard" text font for all of our business documents, and a proprietary font I designed for our logo. What this means is that I cannot use Pages on the iPad for editing any of these documents as they are fundamentally screwed up right from the start. It's an inherent limitation, which you have to decide if you can or cannot live with before deciding whether to use the product. It isn't for everybody or every purpose.

In terms of the UI, again and again, I see Apple deliberately sacrificing feature quantity in favor of feature quality. The question got asked frequently when the iPad came out why it didn't have one or another feature. The answer I thought was clear: because that feature wouldn't work properly, and features that don't work properly blemish the entire product. This design philosophy is one that distinguishes Apple from essentially all of the other tech companies. I wouldn't expect them to violate these principles on purpose for any product. This is why I expect functional limitations on the cloud implementation of iWork.

Senseotech
Jun 12, 2013, 10:29 AM
Has anyone actually had this show up at http://beta.icloud.com yet? They said in the keynote it was available for devs that day, but I'm still not seeing it show up there.

BRussell
Jun 12, 2013, 12:37 PM
Well they have to figure something out because either way isn't good. If they add in feature parity, then those features won't fit in nicely to the touch UI (though if you look at how they managed iPhoto and the filters and similar tweaks, it was done quite well). That much I agree with. But on the other hand, if they don't do it, then you are stuck with multiple copies of a file and the syncing between iOS devices and OS X doesn't work properly, or worst case, you are limited to the feature set of the iOS suite if you want syncing to work properly.

So either way there are problems. I rather they enable comments and similar things in the touch UI in a manner that is a little awkward, if it means I can finally sync my iWork documents properly without resorting to duplicates or data loss. In others words, syncing the files without stripping them of content is the #1 priority. Design the UI around that.

Yeah the compatibility between iOS and OS X is a disaster right now. It's essentially unusable to me, and I use Keynote every day. This browser-based iWork only compounds the issue.

My hope is that it's going to be a big focus in the upcoming revisions of iWork, but I'm curious how they will deal with the issues. Ideally they'll increase the capabilities of the iOS and browser versions to parity with the Mac versions, but that may not be possible.

An alternative would be to have a kind of "compatibility mode" in the Mac versions, where you can check a box and it will limit your work to things that will work in the browser and iOS too. Yechh, but that's probably better than reducing the features of the Mac version down to the level of the iOS and browser versions.

Wolfpup
Jun 12, 2013, 01:23 PM
Yeah the compatibility between iOS and OS X is a disaster right now. It's essentially unusable to me, and I use Keynote every day. This browser-based iWork only compounds the issue.

I'm amazed at how horrible the inport/export thing is between your PC and iOS for iWork. It's got like 90 extra, baffling, pointless steps. I've never seen anything so confusing.

Don't much like the programs either. For how big they are, you'd think they'd be a lot better, but I'm stuck using Docs to Go or Google Docs.

Kiwi 99
Jun 12, 2013, 02:42 PM
Has anyone actually had this show up at http://beta.icloud.com yet? They said in the keynote it was available for devs that day, but I'm still not seeing it show up there.

It doesn't show on the front screen, but if you sign in and if you're a developer, the icons all re-arrange and the new ones show up (it's a developer beta). I was in the same boat wondering why I couldn't see it until I signed in.

I only used it for a few hours, but it really is as smooth as shown in the keynote, and I often forgot whether I was editing in the native version or the browser!

I'm trying it on IE at work today so that will be an acid test!

BRussell
Jun 12, 2013, 03:53 PM
It doesn't show on the front screen, but if you sign in and if you're a developer, the icons all re-arrange and the new ones show up (it's a developer beta). I was in the same boat wondering why I couldn't see it until I signed in.It says something about setting up the developer ID on the latest version of iOS or OSX. Have you installed Sea Lion (ha) or iOS 7?

Senseotech
Jun 12, 2013, 03:56 PM
It says something about setting up the developer ID on the latest version of iOS or OSX. Have you installed Sea Lion (ha) or iOS 7?

Running both with the iCloud ID connected to both; until I set one up, I couldn't even log in to the beta site, but after adding it to both, I can at least get logged in. I log in, but get no iWork icons (the old, single iWork icon is there and behaves like the regular iCloud version).

Kiwi 99
Jun 13, 2013, 04:26 AM
It says something about setting up the developer ID on the latest version of iOS or OSX. Have you installed Sea Lion (ha) or iOS 7?

No I haven't installed anything new yet. I'm running Mountain Lion on an MBPr, and ios6. I just go to https://beta.icloud.com, and sign in there with my developer id, and it all just works. In my case I haven't done anything on my developer account for a while, and when I signed on to the mac dev centre it said I had to accept new terms and conditions, and I think I did that before I tried just signing in to the iCloud beta, so maybe just check that's not holding it up? Otherwise I have no idea.

----------

It doesn't show on the front screen, but if you sign in and if you're a developer, the icons all re-arrange and the new ones show up (it's a developer beta). I was in the same boat wondering why I couldn't see it until I signed in.

I only used it for a few hours, but it really is as smooth as shown in the keynote, and I often forgot whether I was editing in the native version or the browser!

I'm trying it on IE at work today so that will be an acid test!

Ok, on IE10 it wanted to download a plugin which I couldn't on the work machine (but you can carry on anyway). So some slide transitions didn't work and some did. Editing keynote slides worked fine. Presumably would have worked better with the plugin.

Chrome didn't need a plugin or anything and worked pretty well. A few glitches but pretty impressive. I'd say it works 98% on safari, 90% on chrome, and 80% on IE (presumably better with the plugin).

I'm impressed.

Michael Goff
Jun 13, 2013, 09:14 AM
Anyone know if this allows for collaboration?

I currently use Google Drive for that, because it's easier, but I'd love to be able to use iWork for it instead.

Abazigal
Jun 13, 2013, 09:41 AM
Anyone know if this allows for collaboration?

I currently use Google Drive for that, because it's easier, but I'd love to be able to use iWork for it instead.

Sounds possible, but it seems like everyone will need to login using the same ID for that. :confused:

Michael Goff
Jun 13, 2013, 10:08 AM
Sounds possible, but it seems like everyone will need to login using the same ID for that. :confused:

Then that's that.

I'll just use Google Drive, where it... works.

Wolfpup
Jun 13, 2013, 11:45 AM
Then that's that.

I'll just use Google Drive, where it... works.

Not impossible it'll have that.

I think Microsoft supports it too? Actually I SHOULD switch over to using Microsoft's products as they seem to do better than Google's, but then I rarely use Docs anyway so eh lol

BRussell
Jun 13, 2013, 12:36 PM
Sounds possible, but it seems like everyone will need to login using the same ID for that. :confused:

You could certainly set a file as shared, like assigning a photo to a shared photostream.

Michael Goff
Jun 13, 2013, 12:36 PM
Not impossible it'll have that.

I think Microsoft supports it too? Actually I SHOULD switch over to using Microsoft's products as they seem to do better than Google's, but then I rarely use Docs anyway so eh lol

I hope it does, it'd be nice to be using one less Google service.

Michaelgtrusa
Jun 14, 2013, 05:36 AM
Here's a vid. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gns-Sx00Fk


https://vine.co/v/blU5amWDDww

gnasher729
Jun 26, 2013, 07:30 AM
they are never going to catch google docs.

Never is an awful long time.

And there is one company selling you computer devices, and another company selling your data to advertisers. Who would you trust to store your documents?

Apart from that, iWork for iCloud also has native apps everywhere, something that Google Docs doesn't have.

Wolfpup
Jun 26, 2013, 08:31 AM
Never is an awful long time.

And there is one company selling you computer devices, and another company selling your data to advertisers. Who would you trust to store your documents?

Apart from that, iWork for iCloud also has native apps everywhere, something that Google Docs doesn't have.

Technically Apple and Microsoft are ad companies now too...although probably much less so than Google, and I trust 'em both more than Google (which is sad lol).

Google Docs has native programs for iOS and Android (and syncs with Windows and OS X). iCloud only has native programs for iOS (and so far they're TEEEEEEERRIBLE) and I suppose OS X, so IMO it's actually better there with Google Docs, but it wouldn't be hard to destroy Google Docs. Manly current iOS iWork is just hideously bad, but if Apple wanted to they could easily make it better than Google Docs whenever they wanted.

numlock
Jun 26, 2013, 01:03 PM
Never is an awful long time.

And there is one company selling you computer devices, and another company selling your data to advertisers. Who would you trust to store your documents?

Apart from that, iWork for iCloud also has native apps everywhere, something that Google Docs doesn't have.

as the poster below you says apple is an ad company as well. just because they arent very successful there (as in many new fields they enter) dosent change anything in that regard.

maybe ive been following apple long enough and been using their products long enough to know when i think they have realistic chance in a market and when they are just using their size to disrupt.

you can pm me when apple maps and iwork is better than google maps and google docs.

if apple released a native windows app or linux app i missed it.

google docs is available on ios and android as well as any browser.

Technically Apple and Microsoft are ad companies now too...although probably much less so than Google, and I trust 'em both more than Google (which is sad lol).

Google Docs has native programs for iOS and Android (and syncs with Windows and OS X). iCloud only has native programs for iOS (and so far they're TEEEEEEERRIBLE) and I suppose OS X, so IMO it's actually better there with Google Docs, but it wouldn't be hard to destroy Google Docs. Manly current iOS iWork is just hideously bad, but if Apple wanted to they could easily make it better than Google Docs whenever they wanted.

thats the thing. its not shortage of talent at apple but for some reason they often dont have it in them to stick to a product like this long term which is why i think they should follow jobs´s advice and concentrate on a few products and do it well instead of invading markets just for the sake of it

harrisondavies
Jul 3, 2013, 04:05 PM
I feel privileged. I'm not a developer, yet Apple sent an invite to participate...

Did any other non-developer get the invite?

Otis Bagotis
Jul 3, 2013, 04:31 PM
I feel privileged. I'm not a developer, yet Apple sent an invite to participate...

Did any other non-developer get the invite?

I signed up for a developer account years ago. It wasn't a paid-for account and I don't even remember why I did it but I think that's why I got my invite today. Maybe you're in the same boat as I am.

There's also a chance I don't know what I'm talking about.

Michael Goff
Jul 3, 2013, 07:24 PM
I feel privileged. I'm not a developer, yet Apple sent an invite to participate...

Did any other non-developer get the invite?

Yes.

UFGatorMel
Aug 7, 2013, 08:49 AM
I'm not a developer and I just received an invite.

Senseotech
Aug 7, 2013, 09:45 AM
I'm not a developer and I just received an invite.

The girlfriend who isn't a developer and never has been didn't get an invite, but it just appeared on her standard iCloud.com page. Great news, she's going to use it on the window rt tablet provided by her employer.