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skylerdavid
Jun 11, 2013, 05:13 PM
I feel like this feature has gotten completely skimmed over and hasn't been confirmed....

http://9to5mac.com/2013/06/11/subtle-features-details-in-ios-7-and-mavericks/

You can now navigate your iCloud documents in Finder. You can drag anything into this “iCloud” folder. Each app sifts through this folder and finds associates files.

I have yet to come across an iCloud "folder".

Plus the way this is explained, it almost sounds like it's an iDisk-like feature, where we can drag-n-drop into this folder.

Anyone have more info/screenshots regarding this?

If this is real, it should have been more of a prominent feature!:confused:

MikhailT
Jun 11, 2013, 05:36 PM
Yea, I don't know what some folks are referring, there's no screenshot of it anywhere.

notrack
Jun 11, 2013, 05:38 PM
Absolutely. Highly interested in this.

Mk2
Jun 11, 2013, 05:41 PM
I feel like this feature has gotten completely skimmed over and hasn't been confirmed....

http://9to5mac.com/2013/06/11/subtle-features-details-in-ios-7-and-mavericks/



I have yet to come across an iCloud "folder".

Plus the way this is explained, it almost sounds like it's an iDisk-like feature, where we can drag-n-drop into this folder.

Anyone have more info/screenshots regarding this?

If this is real, it should have been more of a prominent feature!:confused:

I haven't found a folder, but if you tag something that is stored in iCloud, it shows up in Finder at that tag.

JohnDoe98
Jun 11, 2013, 05:49 PM
Courtesy of Peace in the other thread:


I think I just figured out the iCloud folder confusion.

If you tag a file with the iCloud tag it will show up in the iCloud tag in the finder sidebar. Any subsequent file saved to iCloud will also show up in the iCloud tag in the Finder sidebar.

Jovian9
Jun 11, 2013, 07:30 PM
Nice. So once you have it setup it's kind of like a dropbox type folder for iCloud. Great feature!

skylerdavid
Jun 11, 2013, 08:58 PM
Courtesy of Peace in the other thread:
Originally Posted by Peace
I think I just figured out the iCloud folder confusion.

If you tag a file with the iCloud tag it will show up in the iCloud tag in the finder sidebar. Any subsequent file saved to iCloud will also show up in the iCloud tag in the Finder sidebar.


Hmm...I'm trying to recreate this process...

Where is "the iCloud tag"?

Is the suggested idea to just create a new tag titled "iCloud" while saving a document to iCloud, and then your iCloud tag will auto-populate with iCloud documents whenever you save to iCloud?

Doesn't really make sense at this moment...

ThisIsNotMe
Jun 11, 2013, 09:09 PM
Yes, you can get an iCloud folder!!!!!!
Made a test document in Pages and saved it in iCloud.
Searched for it "On this Mac" and it came up in the list.
Selected the document brought the document path to the bottom of the window.
Clicked on iCloud and selected "Open in New Tab".
File->Add to sidebar.

You even get a handy warning when you try and delete files in the finder
http://i44.tinypic.com/fpczvd.jpg

Wonder if they are playing around with a "dropbox" like function.

EDIT: Pages, Numbers, and Keynote are all walled off from each other with "separate" documents folders.
Trying to figure out how to get to the root of iCloud.

ThisIsNotMe
Jun 11, 2013, 09:29 PM
Documents also appear in the web interface as soon as you drag and drop them in the appropriate folders.

Threw an image in the documents folder for pages and it showed up on my other mac.
Very interesting.

----------


The Finder icon for that folder changes to the iCloud icon when you go to it in 10.9. Didn't happen in 10.8.
The MobileDocuments folder also turns into a "root" drive.
Can tell Apple has been cooking something up!!!!!



----------



Ok, so just like 10.8 you can create your own "Drive" folder and make alias anywhere, the only difference it that iCloud knows it is iCloud within the Finder.

jbg232
Jun 11, 2013, 09:41 PM
EDIT: ...Trying to figure out how to get to the root of iCloud.

Back off son, the universe might pop if you manage to do so...

JohnDoe98
Jun 11, 2013, 11:26 PM
Hmm...I'm trying to recreate this process...

Where is "the iCloud tag"?

Is the suggested idea to just create a new tag titled "iCloud" while saving a document to iCloud, and then your iCloud tag will auto-populate with iCloud documents whenever you save to iCloud?

Doesn't really make sense at this moment...

Yes, exactly right, you create a custom tag named iCloud and if you sync it to iCloud, or if you add the iCloud tag from within the iCloud pane, then it'll auto-populate the folder in Finder. The problem is this folder is only useful for seeing what you have in iCloud, dragging and dropping into it won't auto-sync it to iCloud, but just add an iCloud tag to the local file. So I'm not quite sure what 9to5Mac was talking about nothing seems to work as they described it.

JohnDoe98
Jun 11, 2013, 11:39 PM
The Finder icon for that folder changes to the iCloud icon when you go to it in 10.9. Didn't happen in 10.8.
The MobileDocuments folder also turns into a "root" drive.
Can tell Apple has been cooking something up!!!!!


Ok, so just like 10.8 you can create your own "Drive" folder and make alias anywhere, the only difference it that iCloud knows it is iCloud within the Finder.

Ok, regarding the Mobile Documents folder, you can place files in there, and they will sync up with iCloud, but the respective apps won't pick it up, so the only way to access it is through the Finder, so that won't work if you want to make changes from your iOS device.

----------

Yes, you can get an iCloud folder!!!!!!
Made a test document in Pages and saved it in iCloud.
Searched for it "On this Mac" and it came up in the list.
Selected the document brought the document path to the bottom of the window.
Clicked on iCloud and selected "Open in New Tab".
File->Add to sidebar.

You even get a handy warning when you try and delete files in the finder
Image (http://i44.tinypic.com/fpczvd.jpg)

Wonder if they are playing around with a "dropbox" like function.

EDIT: Pages, Numbers, and Keynote are all walled off from each other with "separate" documents folders.
Trying to figure out how to get to the root of iCloud.

This process only kinda works. The iCloud folder you created will be a link to the program from which you create it, in this case pages. So any new document you throw in there will only show up in the Pages iCloud panel from within the app, you won't have access to keynote files you put in there, unless you access them from the Finder (you will see them within the panel from the Pages panel, but you can open them from there, similarly you can edit them in Keynote if you access them through Finder and they will update, but you can't see them from the Keynote panel). So in other words they won't be syncing up with iOS devices properly.

travisbrowning
Jun 11, 2013, 11:46 PM
Oh man, this is excellent! If iCloud had support for a more dropbox type storage that would be amazing.

ThisIsNotMe
Jun 12, 2013, 12:34 AM
Ok, regarding the Mobile Documents folder, you can place files in there, and they will sync up with iCloud, but the respective apps won't pick it up, so the only way to access it is through the Finder, so that won't work if you want to make changes from your iOS device.[COLOR="#808080"]


Incorrect.
Docs appear across all devices when uploaded through the finder and also appear through the web interface both occurring almost instantaneously.


While the MobileDocuments has been there previously, what is fascinating is how Finder recognizes it now as a "root" drive called iCloud with special functions such as delete protection/warning. Apple has obviously been hard at work on this function or it would function like it does under 10.8 IE no special consideration for the MobileDocuments folder.

JohnDoe98
Jun 12, 2013, 12:46 AM
Incorrect.
Docs appear across all devices when uploaded through the finder and also appear through the web interface both occurring almost instantaneously.


While the MobileDocuments has been there previously, what is fascinating is how Finder recognizes it now as a "root" drive called iCloud with special functions such as delete protection/warning. Apple has obviously been hard at work on this function or it would function like it does under 10.8 IE no special consideration for the MobileDocuments folder.

Don't know what to tell you, but right now I have a pages document, a keynote document, and a numbers document in the root of Mobile Documents and they do not appear in the respective apps' iCloud panels (when you click file open from within the apps). They also do not show up on the iCloud webpage. They show up in Finder, and Finder indicates they are in the Cloud, but that's pointless because they do not show up anywhere else, as just pointed out. They are also not showing up on my iOS devices. That indicates the files are still sandboxed to their respective locations within the Mobile Documents folder.

Are you even running Mavericks?

Now, I can certainly put the keynote, numbers, and pages files all within a /Mobile Documents/com~apple~App/Documents folder of my choice (where "app" in that path is replaced with an iWork app or the like), and they will show up in that "App", but the problem is the other apps won't see them.

jimthing
Jun 13, 2013, 11:41 PM
Don't know what to tell you, but right now I have a pages document, a keynote document, and a numbers document in the root of Mobile Documents and they do not appear in the respective apps' iCloud panels (when you click file open from within the apps). They also do not show up on the iCloud webpage. They show up in Finder, and Finder indicates they are in the Cloud, but that's pointless because they do not show up anywhere else, as just pointed out. They are also not showing up on my iOS devices. That indicates the files are still sandboxed to their respective locations within the Mobile Documents folder.

Are you even running Mavericks?

Now, I can certainly put the keynote, numbers, and pages files all within a /Mobile Documents/com~apple~App/Documents folder of my choice (where "app" in that path is replaced with an iWork app or the like), and they will show up in that "App", but the problem is the other apps won't see them.

FWIW, I think I read somewhere that file names contain the name of the app they are sandboxed to in parentheses after the main file name, when stored in iCloud (or something similar)?
e.g.'s:

myfilename (Keynote)
anotherfilename (Pages)
someotherfile (Numbers)

(I could be wrong, as I can't re-find the link though. :rolleyes:)


EDIT: found it here...
http://9to5mac.com/2013/06/11/subtle-features-details-in-ios-7-and-mavericks
- When saving to iCloud, the file’s associated application is in parenthesis. For example, if you want to save a PDF to iCloud, the menu item says “iCloud (Preview)”.

- You can now navigate your iCloud documents in Finder. You can drag anything into this “iCloud” folder. Each app sifts through this folder and finds associates files.


Does this help at all?

jykim0806
Jun 14, 2013, 01:54 AM
I feel like this feature has gotten completely skimmed over and hasn't been confirmed....

http://9to5mac.com/2013/06/11/subtle-features-details-in-ios-7-and-mavericks/



I have yet to come across an iCloud "folder".

Plus the way this is explained, it almost sounds like it's an iDisk-like feature, where we can drag-n-drop into this folder.

Anyone have more info/screenshots regarding this?

If this is real, it should have been more of a prominent feature!:confused:

Well, just like Mountain Lion, the iCloud folder can be viewed in Library, which is named Mobile Applications. On the folder itself, it is named Mobile Applications, but as you can see on finder Menubar it says iCloud with iCloud icon. I am not sure if this is the one Apple is describing of.

JohnDoe98
Jun 14, 2013, 05:47 AM
FWIW, I think I read somewhere that file names contain the name of the app they are sandboxed to in parentheses after the main file name, when stored in iCloud (or something similar)?
e.g.'s:

myfilename (Keynote)
anotherfilename (Pages)
someotherfile (Numbers)

(I could be wrong, as I can't re-find the link though. :rolleyes:)


EDIT: found it here...
http://9to5mac.com/2013/06/11/subtle-features-details-in-ios-7-and-mavericks



Does this help at all?

Nope, didn't change anything for me, but thanks for the tip.

inkhead
Jun 17, 2013, 12:16 PM
The iCloud folder that works exactly like dropbox is not in the build of Mavericks given at WWDC. Apple said it will be available to the developers in a future build.

Yes there will be a publicly visible iCloud folder that when documents are placed within will be openable by any application. The private folders for each application will be mostly hidden in the finder.

This is basically a dropbox killer with much better CPU usage, and much better bandwidth management.

JohnDoe98
Jun 17, 2013, 12:45 PM
The iCloud folder that works exactly like dropbox is not in the build of Mavericks given at WWDC. Apple said it will be available to the developers in a future build.

Yes there will be a publicly visible iCloud folder that when documents are placed within will be openable by any application. The private folders for each application will be mostly hidden in the finder.

This is basically a dropbox killer with much better CPU usage, and much better bandwidth management.

Sweet, I emailed Apple about this a while ago. Hopefully it'll be integrated in iOS 7 as well. By the way, where did you obtain this info, was it posted on the developers portal, or did you read it somewhere? Cheers.

jimthing
Jun 19, 2013, 07:48 PM
The iCloud folder that works exactly like dropbox is not in the build of Mavericks given at WWDC. Apple said it will be available to the developers in a future build.

Yes there will be a publicly visible iCloud folder that when documents are placed within will be openable by any application. The private folders for each application will be mostly hidden in the finder.

This is basically a dropbox killer with much better CPU usage, and much better bandwidth management.
Good to know, thanks.
But I still wonder if it still does that thing of deliberately deleting folders that have no files in them, which is REALLY ANNOYING!! And another reason I have refused to use it to store any docs.

It's so stupid, as many people create folders in their directories as a placeholder, ready to move files into it. So having it disappear just because it happens to be empty is plainly an entirely stupid behaviour.

Anyone know if this still happens (perhaps in later beta build)??

jimthing
Jun 24, 2013, 03:01 AM
Good to know, thanks.
But I still wonder if it still does that thing of deliberately deleting folders that have no files in them, which is REALLY ANNOYING!! And another reason I have refused to use it to store any docs.

It's so stupid, as many people create folders in their directories as a placeholder, ready to move files into it. So having it disappear just because it happens to be empty is plainly an entirely stupid behaviour.

Anyone know if this still happens (perhaps in later beta build)??

bump. Anyone know?

JohnDoe98
Jun 25, 2013, 03:46 AM
bump. Anyone know?

Yep, still doing it. Just tested on DP2.

inkhead
Jul 1, 2013, 10:33 PM
Yep, still doing it. Just tested on DP2.

This isn't really an OS thing, it's the iCloud API

jimthing
Jul 11, 2013, 10:04 PM
Yep, still doing it. Just tested on DP2.
This isn't really an OS thing, it's the iCloud API
Fu*king great (not)!

Why can they not stop idiotic behaviour's such as this? Change the iCloud API if they have to, just stop it doing it.

I suppose Apple think it's a Really Great Behaviour™ "no empty folders using your iCloud storage space" type reasoning. But in reality, it just ends-up causing more issues than it solves to users; i.e. it's junk, so get rid of it!

Is there something else I'm missing here – why else would this be set to do this?

(Can any devs around here pass this on via official Apple feedback, as it's a proper pain in the backside.)

MikhailT
Jul 12, 2013, 08:58 AM
Fu*king great (not)!

Why can they not stop idiotic behaviour's such as this? Change the iCloud API if they have to, just stop it doing it.

I suppose Apple think it's a Really Great Behaviour™ "no empty folders using your iCloud storage space" type reasoning. But in reality, it just ends-up causing more issues than it solves to users; i.e. it's junk, so get rid of it!

Is there something else I'm missing here – why else would this be set to do this?

(Can any devs around here pass this on via official Apple feedback, as it's a proper pain in the backside.)

I don't understand the problem. How are you creating the empty folder in iCloud in the first place?

jimthing
Jul 15, 2013, 10:01 AM
Fu*king great (not)!

Why can they not stop idiotic behaviour's such as this? Change the iCloud API if they have to, just stop it doing it.

I suppose Apple think it's a Really Great Behaviour™ "no empty folders using your iCloud storage space" type reasoning. But in reality, it just ends-up causing more issues than it solves to users; i.e. it's junk, so get rid of it!

Is there something else I'm missing here – why else would this be set to do this?

(Can any devs around here pass this on via official Apple feedback, as it's a proper pain in the backside.)I don't understand the problem. How are you creating the empty folder in iCloud in the first place?

Just like any file system on your local/networked machine, one often sets-up a folder ready to accumulate docs into it the future, as a placeholder or temporary receiving point (pending folder).

I may have these folder structures:

e.g. 1:

>Banking
>> Joe Blow bank
>>> Joe Blow bank (general docs)
>>> Joe Blow bank (statements)
>>> Joe Blow bank (2012-2013 tax certificates)

The last folder "Joe Blow bank (2012-2013 tax certificates)" acts as a placeholder for later in the year when I receive the tax docs from my bank with end-of-year tax info, as a 'placeholder reminder', all set-up waiting for the needed docs to arrive.

e.g. 2:
> Downloads
>> ScanSnap pending

I have all my docs scan using my high-speed doc scanner (Fujitsu S1500M, if wondering) into a single folder location, ready for transfer into their appropriate folder later-on, when I wish to file them away.
This is analogous to when most people select to download file on a website, and it automatically saves into your Downloads folder (or where ever you set it) on your computer: a sharepoint.

(also similar to the way many users deal with their email, using both the Inbox & often one or more various 'pending' folders of some kind (e.g. "Urgent", "Later this week", "Unimportant", etc.), to gain some order of magnitude: what needs dealing with in what order.)


Apple should at the very least give users the choice under an option (most I'd suspect would turn it OFF anyway), and not this self-imposed "Apple forced" way of annoying the hell out of most of their users.

Just because I temporarily empty all the docs out of a folder, does NOT mean the iCloud system should then decide to auto-delete the folder in the background without the USER wanting it to –which is exactly how it (stupidly!) works now– so when I go to chuck something in it (manually or automated) it's then VANISHED into the ether!


...I still can't work-out a real reason for this behaviour to exist anyway, as it saves next-to-zero space on the iCloud users' account (it actually acts just like a version of iOS app folder creation, in fact!).
So why bother having it work that way...anyone have a better idea of why??

MikhailT
Jul 15, 2013, 11:54 AM
Just like any file system on your local/networked machine, one often sets-up a folder ready to accumulate docs into it the future, as a placeholder or temporary receiving point (pending folder). So why bother having it work that way...anyone have a better idea of why??

No, I meant how are you accessing iCloud to create folders in, are you intentionally accessing Mobile Documents to store those empty folders in or are you doing this through an iCloud app?

Officially, Apple does not support iCloud like a Dropbox folder, they've never said users can do this. Until Apple modifies the file system to allow iCloud to be accessible to users, your issue isn't an issue.

w0lf
Jul 15, 2013, 05:05 PM
-

Couldn't you just put a placeholder file in the placeholder folder to make it stay?

jimthing
Jul 15, 2013, 06:16 PM
No, I meant how are you accessing iCloud to create folders in, are you intentionally accessing Mobile Documents to store those empty folders in or are you doing this through an iCloud app?

Officially, Apple does not support iCloud like a Dropbox folder, they've never said users can do this. Until Apple modifies the file system to allow iCloud to be accessible to users, your issue isn't an issue.

Just to be clear, I have tested it several times, but currently don't use it, due to it being unusable at the moment for any really meaningful usage as it does not work like Dropbox which adds a folder in the Finder on all my Mac's, and other usability reasons (many users are well aware of, hence it's generally low uptake for non-iWork document storage).

Anyway, when I did test it though, I did so using TextEdit in M.Lion:

1) on your Mac, create two rtf docs, and save them in a folder.
2) in TextEdit go to File>Open, select the iCloud tab.
3) drag the folder with the two rtf's from your Mac Finder into the iCloud window in TextEdit. The folder with the two docs is now stored in iCloud.
4) now drag one then the other rtf files back to your Mac's Finder, and you'll notice the created folder vanishes!

There are other ways using the "Save"/"Move To" interface in iCloud enabled apps as well.

If you notice, the iCloud interface with folders in it looks just like an iOS app folder interface. This is part of this "sandboxed" apps philosophy so I believe, as a non-dev.

Couldn't you just put a placeholder file in the placeholder folder to make it stay?

But why should users have to do that workaround? When you create a folder in Documents via Finder, you don't have to do such a thing do you? So why should users have to create fake files to save things in iCloud? Answer: they shouldn't.
Other cloud services allow you to do what you need to do with your own file/folder structure, and this needs changing in Mavericks for sure. I hope I'm not disappointed (otherwise I'll have to use the competition, like Dropbox which seems to work pretty well), but somehow I get the feeling I am going to be again. :rolleyes:

kjpg
Aug 6, 2013, 01:15 PM
I do use iCloud for "drop boxing" finder files/folders. I made a new folder in MObile Documents, and added an ALIAS to this to the sidebar. Files in that folder will sync with other macs but there is no way to browse those files online. They WILL NOT appear in the icloud.com web server nor in any iCloud-enabled apps (correct file-types added to the appropriate and weirdly named Mobile docs/application folders.

This works really well with one very significant caveat: since is not a sanctioned activity and if you accidentally delete a file in that folder, it will rapidly be deleted from others stores and you CANNOT go to iCloud.com to find deleted files, as you can in Dropbox.

my 2c.

Reznam
Oct 22, 2013, 06:21 AM
I am surprised by the posts on this. There is a dropbox solution for Mac, its called... wait for it... "Dropbox". It works great for me across all my devices and computers and shows up in Finder. So until Apple decides to provide the enjoyable experience I currently have with the real dropbox for document syncing with their iCloud service, I'll keep on using what works. Instead of trying to make iCloud work like Dropbox on your Macs, just use Dropbox until Apple finally figures it out.

jykim0806
Oct 22, 2013, 08:27 AM
Do you really think that we won't know Dropbox? We are trying to figure out the solution within the icloud because the synchronization is seemingless.