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View Full Version : rMBP users on Mavericks- How is the lag?


bkribbs
Jun 12, 2013, 08:33 AM
I'm really surprised I have seen NOTHING on this!

For people who had lag, has it been improved? People have been saying 10.9 was the magical fix, so- is it?

Can you please state if you had it before, and if you have it now?

I've also seen theories it needs new thermal paste applied so maybe 10.9 isn't the fix? Or both?

xdxdaustin
Jun 12, 2013, 08:44 AM
I'm really surprised I have seen NOTHING on this!

For people who had lag, has it been improved? People have been saying 10.9 was the magical fix, so- is it?

I've also seen theories it needs new thermal paste applied so maybe 10.9 isn't the fix? Or both?

I haven't had any lag since 10.8.2 or slightly earlier

bkribbs
Jun 12, 2013, 08:46 AM
I haven't had any lag since 10.8.2 or slightly earlier

Interesting. Well some people have definitely still been having it on 10.8.4. Thanks for your feedback!

Others?

zebi
Jun 12, 2013, 09:44 AM
I haven't been using 10.9 - tried out Safari 6.1 on ML - and it is incredibly quick compared to Safari 6.0.2 etc. I have around 15 -20 tabs open, scrolling on Facebook / The Verge not an issue. Processor usage seems lower too.

Love the new sidebar etc. A definite improvement.

bkribbs
Jun 12, 2013, 10:07 AM
There's also the lag in mission control I understand which would still exist for you. If I'm paying 2200 dollars for a machine, I want NO lag.

MacReloaded
Jun 12, 2013, 10:11 AM
Resizing Safari windows on the highest resolution and HD 4000 still lags. Other than that, I haven't really noticed any lag.

bkribbs
Jun 12, 2013, 11:28 AM
Did you have other lag previously?

petvas
Jun 12, 2013, 11:31 AM
There is no lag whatsoever on my retina MacBook Pro. Mavericks is really smooth

bkribbs
Jun 12, 2013, 11:32 AM
There is no lag whatsoever on my retina MacBook Pro. Mavericks is really smooth

You had it before Mavericks though?

rikscha
Jun 12, 2013, 11:49 AM
You had it before Mavericks though?

Everyone has it, there are just people who are blind and ignorant and there are people like you and me. So far, it looks like that Maverick fixes the lag problem.

bkribbs
Jun 12, 2013, 11:50 AM
Everyone has it, there are just people who are blind and ignorant and there are people like you and me. So far, it looks like that Maverick fixes the lag problem which by the way has been confirmed to me by Apple themselves...

There are probably a few people without it. Not all computer are built equally.

Also, not me yet, I've been waiting to confirm this is gone before I buy it.

But sweet!

Griouxtiful
Jun 12, 2013, 12:01 PM
Could someone capture a video about rMBP performance, like scrolling in Safari and launching mission control, in Mavericks and upload it to youtube?

I`m owner of a 13" model, and I can`t wait to get 10.9...

rikscha
Jun 12, 2013, 12:11 PM
There are probably a few people without it. Not all computer are built equally.

Also, not me yet, I've been waiting to confirm this is gone before I buy it.

But sweet!

Well, Apple themselves confirmed to me more than twice that the GUI performance on a rmbp is not optimal and that this is the price for being the first company to bring out a laptop with such a high resolution.
Also, I tested at least 15 different rmbps in different Apple stores, do not believe what people are saying about this. The rmbp's GUI performance is ridiculous. They suggested to me escalating this with some manager at Apple to get a refund or a different Mac...

bkribbs
Jun 12, 2013, 12:20 PM
Could someone capture a video about rMBP performance, like scrolling in Safari and launching mission control, in Mavericks and upload it to youtube?

I`m owner of a 13" model, and I can`t wait to get 10.9...

I believe sharing video may violate NDA? not sure if it isn't showing new stuff off though.

Well, Apple themselves confirmed to me more than twice that the GUI performance on a rmbp is not optimal and that this is the price for being the first company to bring out a laptop with such a high resolution.
Also, I tested at least 15 different rmbps in different Apple stores, do not believe what people are saying about this. The rmbp's GUI performance is ridiculous. They suggested to me escalating this with some manager at Apple to get a refund or a different Mac...

This is in reference to 10.8 right? No longer relevant with 10.9?

rikscha
Jun 12, 2013, 12:21 PM
I believe sharing video may violate NDA? not sure if it isn't showing new stuff off though.



This is in reference to 10.8 right? No longer relevant with 10.9?

Yes to 10.8. I am not a developer but people seem to be happy about the 10.9 performance.

bkribbs
Jun 12, 2013, 12:26 PM
Yes to 10.8. I am not a developer but people seem to be happy about the 10.9 performance.

Ah gotcha.

I would love for one person who had bad lag before and now has 10.9 to just state it clears it up.

Griouxtiful
Jun 12, 2013, 12:27 PM
I believe sharing video may violate NDA? not sure if it isn't showing new stuff off though.

Oh, okay. I didn`t have a clue about this, thanks.

leman
Jun 12, 2013, 12:41 PM
Just a hint: there will always be a lag (as in - a slight initial delay) in Mission Control if you have enough windows open, simply because OS X has to issue a redraw operation on all of the windows. And, don't forget that windows are still updated in real time while being shown in Mission Control, this is very taxing for the system. It is very different from the 'normal' operation where the OS can optimise away visualisation of hidden UI elements.

petvas
Jun 12, 2013, 01:13 PM
You had it before Mavericks though?

Yes, even with 10.8.4 but only in Safari, mostly in Facebook.

shznit
Jun 12, 2013, 02:34 PM
Safari is very smooth, Chrome same as before. Mission Control zoom animation gets pretty choppy, especially with multiple monitors but independent spaces is worth it.

bumblebritches5
Jun 12, 2013, 04:29 PM
scrolling is definitely better, it is a little buggy though.

King Shady
Jun 12, 2013, 04:42 PM
scrolling is definitely better, it is a little buggy though.

Same experience here. Definitely a lot smoother compared to previous releases of Mountain Lion, but Safari is super buggy.

luciushunt
Jun 12, 2013, 05:13 PM
i think the performance is the same as mountain lion, slightly laggy, but laggy.
Worst bits: Safati, Mission control and Launchpad.

bkribbs
Jun 12, 2013, 08:44 PM
i think the performance is the same as mountain lion, slightly laggy, but laggy.
Worst bits: Safati, Mission control and Launchpad.

How do I try to replicate the mission control and launchpad lag?

aleni
Jun 12, 2013, 09:34 PM
the mavericks performance is much better than ML 10.8.4 on my rmbp. and luckily all of my apps work except vmware becomes a bit slow, but it's not much.

juicywaterhouse
Jun 12, 2013, 11:35 PM
I haven't had any lag since 10.8.2 or slightly earlier


Unlike xdxdaustin, my machine's performance was sup-par with 10.8.4. Safari wasn't terrible, but it did not meet my personal expectations (being a nerd and all), especially when using "smart zoom". I was "forced" to use daily webkit builds. Although the lag did lessen, it kind of sucked ... incessant updating ... disabled iCloud tabs.
Simlar stories with mission control and expose, even resizing windows left me annoyed. I don't want to compromise performance for screen resolution—I want both.

Using 10.9 I've concluded nomralization is inexorable. I'm as certain as one can be, using the 10.9 GM on retains will give the [same] performance as a similarly spec'd 1440x900 MacBook Pro. DP1 is rough, but the difference is palpable. It's (in a [really!] nerdy way) jarring the first few minutes.

I'm so happy the whole "Haswell chip set" conflict will deservingly be put to rest.

portishead
Jun 13, 2013, 12:00 AM
Well, Apple themselves confirmed to me more than twice that the GUI performance on a rmbp is not optimal and that this is the price for being the first company to bring out a laptop with such a high resolution.
Also, I tested at least 15 different rmbps in different Apple stores, do not believe what people are saying about this. The rmbp's GUI performance is ridiculous. They suggested to me escalating this with some manager at Apple to get a refund or a different Mac...

2x is about right for rMBP. The quality is worth a little lag imo. Wow, go Blackhawks! 3OT Winner!

bkribbs
Jun 13, 2013, 01:06 AM
Noone should pay more then 200 dollars and have to put up with lag much less 2k.

bcaslis
Jun 13, 2013, 01:12 AM
Noone should pay more then 200 dollars and have to put up with lag much less 2k.

Really? Like to see what Mac you get for $200.

bkribbs
Jun 13, 2013, 01:46 AM
Really? Like to see what Mac you get for $200.

Exactly. I mean that if you pay over 200 dollars for any laptop (ok maybe that's low so we'll say 500) - anytime you pay over 500 dollars for a laptop, its ridiculous for it to lag for something simple such as browsing the internet. But when you're talking about a 2200 dollar machine, there is absolutely no way that there should be lag in those circumstances.

Andrmgic
Jun 13, 2013, 02:30 AM
If there's another notebook out there with a 2880x1800 resolution display that doesn't lag at all, I'm all ears.

The rMBP is the at the breaking point of the hardware inside of it.

Running on an external monitor (even my 27" ACD at 2560x1440) is absolutely snappy with no lag to speak of.

Running on the internal display (2880x1800), there is a small amount of UI lag in certain scenarios due the resolution and this is using the "best for retina" default setting.

If you choose one of the other options "Looks like 1680x1050" or "Looks like 1920x1200", the display image is rendered at 3360x2100 and 3840x2400 respectively and then scales it down to 2880x1800.

In most cases, the machine runs well and doesn't have much lag, but the Nvidia 650m gpu inside of it can only push so many pixels and it has limits to how quickly it can do that.

They will need a more powerful gpu inside to push these pixel counts with absolutely 0 UI lag.

The quality of the retina display, in my opinion, is worth the slight UI performance hit that the machine has. If you're not ok with ANY hitching in the UI EVER under any circumstance, then this is not the machine for you, even with Mavericks, which does help somewhat with UI performance.

rikscha
Jun 13, 2013, 06:25 AM
If there's another notebook out there with a 2880x1800 resolution display that doesn't lag at all, I'm all ears.

The rMBP is the at the breaking point of the hardware inside of it.

Running on an external monitor (even my 27" ACD at 2560x1440) is absolutely snappy with no lag to speak of.

Running on the internal display (2880x1800), there is a small amount of UI lag in certain scenarios due the resolution and this is using the "best for retina" default setting.

If you choose one of the other options "Looks like 1680x1050" or "Looks like 1920x1200", the display image is rendered at 3360x2100 and 3840x2400 respectively and then scales it down to 2880x1800.

In most cases, the machine runs well and doesn't have much lag, but the Nvidia 650m gpu inside of it can only push so many pixels and it has limits to how quickly it can do that.

They will need a more powerful gpu inside to push these pixel counts with absolutely 0 UI lag.

The quality of the retina display, in my opinion, is worth the slight UI performance hit that the machine has. If you're not ok with ANY hitching in the UI EVER under any circumstance, then this is not the machine for you, even with Mavericks, which does help somewhat with UI performance.

This is just BS and please do not believe the people who are blaming the hardware for the lag. The problem seems to be solved in Mavericks which clearly proves my point. Both GPUs are capable of running much higher resolutions in fact. Running Windows in the native resolution works like a charm.

bcaslis
Jun 13, 2013, 09:00 AM
Exactly. I mean that if you pay over 200 dollars for any laptop (ok maybe that's low so we'll say 500) - anytime you pay over 500 dollars for a laptop, its ridiculous for it to lag for something simple such as browsing the internet. But when you're talking about a 2200 dollar machine, there is absolutely no way that there should be lag in those circumstances.

You're entitled to your opinion but I think it's B.S. When I use the rMBP the only time I see lag is when I'm doing something like opening Mission Control the first time after a reboot. But I would see that on a non-retina Mac also. I think may of those complaining aren't comparing the machines to reality, but expecting perfection all the time even when a non-retina Mac would show lag. I haven't seen any issue since 10.8.3.

Andrmgic
Jun 13, 2013, 10:31 AM
This is just BS and please do not believe the people who are blaming the hardware for the lag. The problem seems to be solved in Mavericks which clearly proves my point. Both GPUs are capable of running much higher resolutions in fact. Running Windows in the native resolution works like a charm.

It's not solved in mavericks, though. I'm using it now and there is still UI lag and scrolling lag on places like Facebook that goes away when I move the window to an external display.

If they can solve it completely by the time Mavericks ships this fall, I'll gladly eat crow on this.

MacReloaded
Jun 13, 2013, 10:37 AM
It's really the way they implemented HiDPI in OS X.

Assuming you're not running in clamshell mode, shouldn't it still lag when you move the window to the external display when there's even more pixels to push than just running the main display. It's not a hardware problem.

bkribbs
Jun 13, 2013, 10:38 AM
You're entitled to your opinion but I think it's B.S. When I use the rMBP the only time I see lag is when I'm doing something like opening Mission Control the first time after a reboot. But I would see that on a non-retina Mac also. I think may of those complaining aren't comparing the machines to reality, but expecting perfection all the time even when a non-retina Mac would show lag. I haven't seen any issue since 10.8.3.

Please realize I haven't yet seen it myself (literally will within the next two hours though) so I am going off of others who have complained. I'll see how bad it truly is.

MacReloaded
Jun 13, 2013, 10:44 AM
Just make sure it has the latest updates when trying it out.

cecoleman
Jun 13, 2013, 10:59 AM
I can report that scrolling and mission control are 100 percent better in Mavericks. Seriously, its like my Mac was upgraded with better hardware or something. It turns out that it wasn't the hardware that couldn't push the retina pixels but the software instead which is and was not optimized with Mountain Lion. It's buttery smooth now on my 15" retina MBP. Can't wait until this thing is finished.

bkribbs
Jun 13, 2013, 11:01 AM
See these are the reports I like! I'll probably get one anyways since I have 14 days to return it if it really kills me.

hehe299792458
Jun 28, 2013, 03:02 AM
open contacts. make the window relatively small. then click the green button to maximize it. is there lag on Mavericks?

This is always very laggy for me on 10.8.4 rMBP 15 (even with the discrete graphics card).

Donka
Jun 28, 2013, 08:05 AM
The lag I saw in ML when opening Mission Control or Launchpad seemed to be a caching issue. The first time I launched either there was a little big of lag - nothing major but noticeable. Each subsequent launch was buttery smooth. I believe this was all due to caching the HiDPI icons - first time they are loaded into RAM, subsequent launches they are already in RAM there for no delay/lag. This didn't happen before because the icons etc. were collectively smaller in file size and loaded much quicker and not visibly noticeable - all in theory of course.
This is all on a rMBP 13. This illustrates the GPU is more than up to the task, other wise this lag would be present on every launch.

ValSalva
Jun 28, 2013, 09:03 AM
The lag I saw in ML when opening Mission Control or Launchpad seemed to be a caching issue. The first time I launched either there was a little big of lag - nothing major but noticeable. Each subsequent launch was buttery smooth. I believe this was all due to caching the HiDPI icons - first time they are loaded into RAM, subsequent launches they are already in RAM there for no delay/lag. This didn't happen before because the icons etc. were collectively smaller in file size and loaded much quicker and not visibly noticeable - all in theory of course.
This is all on a rMBP 13. This illustrates the GPU is more than up to the task, other wise this lag would be present on every launch.

I see this too. It's too bad that OS X can't load certain 'likely to be used' resources into RAM in the background before they are used. Of course OS X already does this but it seems more resources need to be loaded in RAM on retina Macs.

Crisis
Jun 28, 2013, 12:36 PM
safari is extraordinarily smooth

hehe299792458
Jun 28, 2013, 03:30 PM
Ever scrolling on comp,instead sites like the verge?


How about Chrome/FF performance? Have they improved under Mavericks

bushido
Jun 28, 2013, 04:36 PM
Ah gotcha.

I would love for one person who had bad lag before and now has 10.9 to just state it clears it up.

scrolling through my application folder from the dock in list view is still lagging as much as it did on ML.

tmanto02
Jul 1, 2013, 07:28 AM
I just installed 10.9 DP on my external USB 3.0 SSD and I am amazed by the scrolling....Zero lag on my 13" retina! I went to some websites that were RIDICULOUSLY laggy on 10.8.4 and rest assured they were perfect!

I would have to say that their is even less lag than my old cMBP which ran Snow Leopard.

Smooth as butter :D

(in case you couldn't tell by my post I am extremely pleased! lol)

akhilv1
Jul 1, 2013, 09:58 PM
Safari is very smooth, Chrome same as before. Mission Control zoom animation gets pretty choppy, especially with multiple monitors but independent spaces is worth it.

I have no idea what I did to Chrome, but it scrolls just as smooth as Safari on my ML install. I've been trying to figure it out, but I have no clue.

printz
Jul 2, 2013, 05:05 AM
I hate how lousily the interface animates on (my) Retina MacBook Pro OS X. On first boot it's fast enough, but after you do some work, all mission control animations are jerky as hell. Did they improve it for OS X 10.9?

petvas
Jul 2, 2013, 06:21 AM
I hate how lousily the interface animates on (my) Retina MacBook Pro OS X. On first boot it's fast enough, but after you do some work, all mission control animations are jerky as hell. Did they improve it for OS X 10.9?

Everything is smooth as butter here. Mavericks is so much better. I only hope it gets less buggy soon, especially Finder.

DarwinOSX
Jul 2, 2013, 05:51 PM
I have never had lag on my 13" rMBP

imladris
Jul 3, 2013, 03:42 AM
How smooth is Safari in Mavericks, compared to the current WebKit nightlies? I've been running the nightlies on my rMBP 13" for a long time, since Safari can't keep up with scrolling. Granted WebKit can't either at times, but it's miles better than Safari, and most of the time very useable.

Still, for me the improved text quality is worth it for me, at the current price of some lag here and there. (That Safari's kerning of text isn't of high quality bothers me more than the lag.)

petvas
Jul 3, 2013, 06:59 AM
How smooth is Safari in Mavericks, compared to the current WebKit nightlies? I've been running the nightlies on my rMBP 13" for a long time, since Safari can't keep up with scrolling. Granted WebKit can't either at times, but it's miles better than Safari, and most of the time very useable.

Still, for me the improved text quality is worth it for me, at the current price of some lag here and there. (That Safari's kerning of text isn't of high quality bothers me more than the lag.)

In my eye it is much smoother. Ist is better than Chrome when scrolling. Only the Google+ website causes issues, but this is normal since the page is optimized for Chrome.

imladris
Jul 3, 2013, 07:06 AM
In my eye it is much smoother. Ist is better than Chrome when scrolling. Only the Google+ website causes issues, but this is normal since the page is optimized for Chrome.

Hm, okay. When I got my rMBP 13", Chrome scrolled so badly that I switched back to Safari, after having used Chrome almost exclusively for some years. But maybe it has improved since december?

petvas
Jul 3, 2013, 07:09 AM
Hm, okay. When I got my rMBP 13", Chrome scrolled so badly that I switched back to Safari, after having used Chrome almost exclusively for some years. But maybe it has improved since december?

I have been using the developer versions of Chrome and scrolling was better than Safari. I had no stuttering at all. With Safari 6 I had stuttering all the time.

imladris
Jul 3, 2013, 07:12 AM
I have been using the developer versions of Chrome and scrolling was better than Safari. I had no stuttering at all. With Safari 6 I had stuttering all the time.

That's good to hear. I guess I should check back on Chrome then! In any case, I'm happy that improvements are coming in for both Safari and Chrome.

smiddlehurst
Jul 4, 2013, 04:36 PM
If you choose one of the other options "Looks like 1680x1050" or "Looks like 1920x1200", the display image is rendered at 3360x2100 and 3840x2400 respectively and then scales it down to 2880x1800.

In most cases, the machine runs well and doesn't have much lag, but the Nvidia 650m gpu inside of it can only push so many pixels and it has limits to how quickly it can do that.

They will need a more powerful gpu inside to push these pixel counts with absolutely 0 UI lag.

Nope, sorry, this isn't (and never has been) a GPU issue. Ultimately OSX relies on a lot of CPU work to handle UI elements. The additional work to enable retina displays to work they way they do in OSX, along with replacing some fixed function code with more general calls, puts a LOT of additional workload on both CPU and GPU. Most of the testing I've seen on rMBP's points to serious interface lag occurring when a single core on the CPU is maxed out. This is more common on the 13" model where the CPU tends to be slower than those in the 15". The problem gets worse when you start running a non-optimal resolution as there's even more pixels to render and scaling to perform.

Mavericks seems to have had a pretty major overhaul in the codebase and I'd be amazed if a big chunk of that work wasn't focused on offshoring more of the workload on to the GPU. It would certainly explain why the general feeling is it goes a long way towards fixing lag on the same hardware.

More than that though I honestly think Mavericks might be what's holding back Haswell-based rMBP's. Haswell is built in such a way that, under certain circumstances, it can reach the point where it has to drop chip speed for a single core a bit earlier than Ivy Bridge. That'd be less than ideal for a rMBP if it still relied heavily on single core performance to provide a smooth OS. Add in other battery saving (i.e. reduction in required CPU power and therefore reduction in heat) functions and Mavericks does look, in part anyway, to be a release tailored to address some of the compromises inherent in Haswell.

Serban
Jul 5, 2013, 02:33 AM
i think the next upgrade of retina with HD4400 or maybe we get HD5000, with maveriks will be 0 UI lag

vindictum
Jul 5, 2013, 04:43 AM
Running 15' rMBP with nearly 0 lag. I thing (and hope) that the final release of mavericks will be even better, solving this issue once and for all...

rikscha
Jul 14, 2013, 04:10 AM
Running 15' rMBP with nearly 0 lag. I thing (and hope) that the final release of mavericks will be even better, solving this issue once and for all...

Have you tried the Google Maps Preview in Safari by any chance? Running the preview in Safari at the moment is driving me crazy. The performance is so unbelievably poor. It feels like using a 10 year old computer.

VanillaCracker
Aug 3, 2013, 09:56 PM
See these are the reports I like! I'll probably get one anyways since I have 14 days to return it if it really kills me.

So did you ever do this? I'd be curious to hear your response also, as I'm looking to purchase one this fall after the refresh and also am very particular to lag. I've heard, that the cMBP gets 60 FPS scrolling through a normal safari site, but the rMBP gets something between 30-43 FPS doing the same thing, depending on the site.

^ This was likely before certain patches and updates came out. But that's pretty horrifying. I've tried it in the store, and noticed lag (a few weeks ago...) but I didn't do a comparison between the two as I was in a rush.

bkribbs
Aug 5, 2013, 12:13 AM
So did you ever do this? I'd be curious to hear your response also, as I'm looking to purchase one this fall after the refresh and also am very particular to lag. I've heard, that the cMBP gets 60 FPS scrolling through a normal safari site, but the rMBP gets something between 30-43 FPS doing the same thing, depending on the site.

^ This was likely before certain patches and updates came out. But that's pretty horrifying. I've tried it in the store, and noticed lag (a few weeks ago...) but I didn't do a comparison between the two as I was in a rush.

Yeah I bought one and love it! I did get an original screen and have IR but will eventually get that replaced.

No lag that I see though.

VanillaCracker
Aug 5, 2013, 05:58 PM
Yeah I bought one and love it! I did get an original screen and have IR but will eventually get that replaced.

No lag that I see though.

Dope, thanks

VacTacks11
Aug 5, 2013, 07:31 PM
No lag here. I think part of it is because Mavericks ups the video card memory from 512 to 1024. That's seemed to really help actually.