PDA

View Full Version : The new design is not easier and more intuitive. In fact simplicity = confusion now.


Bobby Corwen
Jun 12, 2013, 06:15 PM
This is probably the first case of simplicity =/= ease of use.

Along with all the details that people pointed out, especially the icons, I also think a lot of the problem is the fact that the less lines and buttons you have on screen (they are merely words now that you click) it gives you less context for where you are.

I dont mean on what page, but whats on the page itself.

There are no lines or organization, just blank white empty space with words strung about.

iOS was famously known for having the dynamic that any old person can just pick it up and intuitively use it. I believe that has been reduced now.

There is also lack of uniformity in general.

Every window area in every app seems different. Safari is grey, texts are white on white. The PHONE APP when in a call is the most beautiful moment. But everything is incongruent. The safari tabs are front to back but the app tabs are side to side... Now I cant see the content on safari, but I can on app manager. The opacity on the task manager is different than the opacity in the other apps. Or why is siri and the slide up task manager page so different in feel? They are both just a menu that comes on top of the main screen. Why are they worlds apart in style?

Its like, give everything the same background or none at all but do it all so it matches!

Even aesthetically, some of the words arent even "centered" just strewn about in places like "back" is there buts its just a word. And its a different color and different font than the word next to it. And the rest is all

Worst of all it "feels" stylistically like android. Everything thats bad about it, I guess Jony Ive (rip my unequivocal respect, I guess Jobs was a lot more a sobering factor than I thought) liked that look?

Its a perfect example of the principle of simplicity not working out.

The OS LOST character instead of gained it.

Overall everything is the same too on a core level. Just has been updated with a bad nightmare of a design.

Wow now instead of double tap and go left you swipe up to get your player. Now instead of multitasking being buttons to delete you swipe up.

That is the main fundamental change of the OS??

And some cheap animations?

Everything should look like when its in a call. That elegance is good. But the rest is too white on white. Too plain. Too scattered.

I know how to use the phone well from before but even I feel like I am looking around for the right button sometimes.

I am confused and I have the OS memorized, I take a bet that the new user friendliness is much less friendly if even I feel confused using it.

Its like everything is a dull sketch of what it should be.

chrf097
Jun 12, 2013, 06:17 PM
i just gave my iPhone 5 to my mom who is basically the benchmark for technical ignorance and she was able to use it just fine, and she has used old iOS devices before.


I'm pretty sure iOS is fine.

chrisk1
Jun 12, 2013, 06:17 PM
Agree 100%


I will pass final judgement once I see GM.

darngooddesign
Jun 12, 2013, 06:21 PM
Change is hard when you were used to the way things were, but you'll gte used to this as well.

Look, The iPhone was the way it was because no one was used to it. Now we all know how to operate a touch interface so things can evolve.

Wow now instead of double tap and go left you swipe up to get your player.
Which is now easier with one hand. You would have hated moving from the old iPod controls to the Multitasking bar (iOS3 > iOS4).

Now instead of multitasking being buttons to delete you swipe up.
Again, easier with one hand because the actions are further up on the screen. Its also quicker because they elimiated a step.

I've had these things on jailbroken phones and had no problem getting used to them.

Some people are just more stuck in their ways.

eaglesteve
Jun 12, 2013, 06:32 PM
I don't understand what the complaint is all about frankly.

darngooddesign
Jun 12, 2013, 06:35 PM
I don't understand what the complaint is all about frankly.

Because people love whining about things; makes them feel like experts on the matter.

sparky1499
Jun 12, 2013, 06:47 PM
Human beings are creatures of habit. They don't like being out of their comfort zone...

Deasnutz
Jun 12, 2013, 06:53 PM
The changes serve as a move away from skuemorphism to a more Android look and feel. There is no utility in ios7's changes other than the control panel. Other than that, lifeless cosmetic changes.

Sorry, it's weak. The majority has spoken.

darngooddesign
Jun 12, 2013, 06:54 PM
...The majority has spoken.

Citation needed.

Bobby Corwen
Jun 12, 2013, 07:30 PM
Id like to hear what Scott Forstalls seemingly controversial stances and arguments before he was outsted were all of a sudden.

Im curious what his angle was and why he believed what he believed in.

Maybe he wasnt as wrong as he was made out to seem. Maybe he had vision for something that people didnt understand.

Maybe he was against Android style flatness and wanted to keep some character around.

I can imagine Jony's vision, in concept, in theory, working some how in some alternate realization of the design principles.

But not like this. And not like Android.

Ive spent countless essays criticizing those very things about Android, and now, as if by some cruel twist of fate, here it shows up in my hand.

The dreaded flatness.

zbarvian
Jun 12, 2013, 07:39 PM
I agree. The floating text and wireframe buttons give much less hierarchy and lose definition. It's cognitively harder to make sense of three words in a nav bar than a title and two flanking buttons.

Shrink
Jun 12, 2013, 07:43 PM
The majority has spoken.

The majority of what?:confused:

Bobby Corwen
Jun 12, 2013, 07:55 PM
I agree. The floating text and wireframe buttons give much less hierarchy and lose definition. It's cognitively harder to make sense of three words in a nav bar than a title and two flanking buttons.

Extremely well put.

Hierarchy is a great word to describe what makes it confusing on a purely ocular level of initial analysis.

Also, did I suddenly switch to T-Mobile in some apps?

Why are are some of them pink (cal), some mustard (notes), and some with nothing (reminders).

Some still have the + sign for new items (reminders), Some have the word "New" (notes), and some have the square with pen icon (messages).

darngooddesign
Jun 12, 2013, 08:00 PM
Why are are some of them pink (cal), some mustard (notes), and some with nothing (reminders).

Some still have the + sign for new items (reminders), Some have the word "New" (notes), and some have the square with pen icon (messages).

That difference in the new action is on my iOS6 phone.

It's a beta.

sigamy
Jun 12, 2013, 08:07 PM
Some still have the + sign for new items (reminders), Some have the word "New" (notes), and some have the square with pen icon (messages).

I agree with this point in the inconsistency. Let's hope it's all fixed before final release.

doug in albq
Jun 12, 2013, 08:09 PM
i just gave my iPhone 5 to my mom who is basically the benchmark for technical ignorance and she was able to use it just fine, and she has used old iOS devices before.


I'm pretty sure iOS is fine.

I do not believe you, especially based on all your staunchly-pro-everything iOS7/Mavericks that you have been posting over the last few days.

The OP is one of the best post I have read about the mess that is iOS7.

chrf097
Jun 12, 2013, 08:14 PM
I do not believe you, especially based on all your staunchly-pro-everything iOS7/Mavericks that you have been posting over the last few days.

The OP is one of the best post I have read about the mess that is iOS7.

Because I like it?

If you choose to not believe me based on the fact that I like iOS 7 and Mavericks that's your choice. I'm not going to tell you to believe me.

Just know not every single person in the world is anti-iOS 7 and that a lot of people actually are fans of iOS 7.

darngooddesign
Jun 12, 2013, 08:18 PM
I do not believe you, especially based on all your staunchly-pro-everything iOS7/Mavericks that you have been posting over the last few days.

Based on your staunch anti-iOS7 post history I believe you are a shill who astroturfs for Samsung.

See how silly that sounds.

doug in albq
Jun 12, 2013, 08:24 PM
Based on your staunch anti-iOS7 post history I believe you are a shill who astroturfs for Samsung.

See how silly that sounds.

You apparently have not read all my posts on MR. I have read many of your recent posting, post WWDC, and you do sound like you are about 13-14 years old...am I close?

On topic: iOS 7 is currently a mess. It will get better, I hope it gets much better.

darngooddesign
Jun 12, 2013, 08:25 PM
You apparently have not read all my posts on MR. I have read many of your recent posting, post WWDC, and you do sound like you are about 13-14 years old...am I close?

As close as I was about you.

Vertigo50
Jun 12, 2013, 08:59 PM
I don't agree with the OP across the board, but I have to say I notice this with Safari now. With pages with an all-white background, it's now confusing where the page starts and the interface starts, and when it comes back in, it takes my eyes a few seconds to "find it" every time again.

I would totally vote for something like a flat, dark gray bar or something rather than white in this case.

I actually love iOS 7 for the most part, but he's right in some of what he says here.


Also, saying things like "I gave it to my mom and she figured it out, so it's fine." is missing the point.

I could give my mom a hardcover book and tell her to hammer a nail into a wall and she would figure it out, but that doesn't mean its the best way to do it. UI and UX is all about small details, how your eyes flow across a page, things that distract you for even a millisecond that can be improved, etc.

I think all of this will get better, but some of it is definitely not an improvement right now.

PNutts
Jun 12, 2013, 09:06 PM
OP I agree with most all of what you said. This feels more like change for the sake of change. I did just figure out how to forward a text message so the quest for knowledge continues.

I think people underestimate how valuable things like disabled controls and colors go towards guiding users to accomplish a task. Or at least something, anything. Now it's a game of hide and seek where I'm staring at a screen where I know I can do something but I don't know how and there is no visible control. So try the same things over and over... Swipe, tap, double-tap, etc., and hopefully stumble onto something.

I'll use deleting or forwarding a text message in iOS 7 an example of design gone wrong or in this case "regressing usability".

Vertigo50
Jun 12, 2013, 09:11 PM
Also, as much as I love that the Safari interface gets out of the way now, it took me quite a while to figure out how to get it back, or to go back and forward.

It's great that you can swipe from the edge for Back and Forward now, too, but most cases get in the way of that, and there's no way to just intuitively know you can do that, which is the problem with most gestures.

charlituna
Jun 12, 2013, 09:34 PM
what's interesting is that in a way they have introduced a huge skeuomorph across the whole phone.

Pre computers our dominant source of knowledge was books and magazines, which we interacted with via flipping back and forth between pages. Which is not unlike what all this swipe from the left, from the right is.

And yet because there are no page curls etc we don't see it like that.

PhoneI
Jun 12, 2013, 10:28 PM
i just gave my iphone 5 to my mom who is basically the benchmark for technical ignorance.

Ha!!!

mattroman246
Jun 13, 2013, 12:58 AM
it is different, obviously there will be a learning curve. my mother and father picked it up in quite no time at all

DDustiNN
Jun 13, 2013, 01:29 AM
I have been using iOS 7 since Monday and not a single thing has confused me. In fact, I love the look and feel of everything so far.

I guess I'm in the minority of people who understand arrows.

j4zb4
Jun 13, 2013, 01:57 AM
You apparently have not read all my posts on MR. I have read many of your recent posting, post WWDC, and you do sound like you are about 13-14 years old...am I close?

On topic: iOS 7 is currently a mess. It will get better, I hope it gets much better.

I love people who try the first BETA... BETAAA and then start crying immediately... They clearly don't understand the meaning of that word...

rasputin1969
Jun 13, 2013, 03:26 AM
I think the new OS is actually fine to use. The extra functionality is a big improvement. Apple have done a great job there.

My beef is purely with the aesthetics.

1) The icons are dull and amateurish. I appreciate that using a grid-based design can be a fantastic template for print and web-sites but it works because it makes a fantastic use of white-space. In my opinion it is foolish to apply the same principles to a design aimed at one centimeter squared.

2) Gaussian blur is as bad as Corinthian leather, quite frankly it is tacky and not deferential in any way. How can blurring content be deferential to it? Content is important - if it is visible it should pop.

3) The dock is dull, boring and ugly. Gaussian blur at its worst.

4) Folders, which should give a sense of depth, are weird dull blobs.

5) Some animated transitions take too long.

The re skinned apps are great. I would probably rather have seen a border around buttons but the tint in text color for clickable user interface elements is fine.

gadget123
Jun 13, 2013, 03:36 AM
Id like to hear what Scott Forstalls seemingly controversial stances and arguments before he was outsted were all of a sudden.

Im curious what his angle was and why he believed what he believed in.

Maybe he wasnt as wrong as he was made out to seem. Maybe he had vision for something that people didnt understand.

Maybe he was against Android style flatness and wanted to keep some character around.

I can imagine Jony's vision, in concept, in theory, working some how in some alternate realization of the design principles.

But not like this. And not like Android.

Ive spent countless essays criticizing those very things about Android, and now, as if by some cruel twist of fate, here it shows up in my hand.

The dreaded flatness.

Good idea but we may never know.

I fear we have to accept a changed Apple or leave for another company. I don't see Ive and Cook changing if they have different views to Jobs.

Apples problem is if they turn there back on the core user base.

----------

I think the new OS is actually fine to use. The extra functionality is a big improvement. Apple have done a great job there.

My beef is purely with the aesthetics.

1) The icons are dull and amateurish. I appreciate that using a grid-based design can be a fantastic template for print and web-sites but the it works because it makes a fantastic use of white-space. In my opinion it is foolish to apply the same principles to a design aimed at one centimeter squared.

2) Gaussian blur is as bad as Corinthian leather, quite frankly it is tacky and not deferential in any way. How can blurring content be deferential to it? Content is important - if it is visible it should pop.

3) The dock is dull, boring and ugly. Gaussian blur at its worst.

4) Folders, which should give a sense of depth, are weird dull blobs.

5) Some animated transitions take too long.

The re skinned apps are great. I would probably rather have seen a border around buttons but the tint in text color for clickable user interface elements is fine.

I wish people would stop calling it fine. It clearly has alot to be desired for. Many people don't like it. This never happened as much under previous OS's.

The question is what next for Apple? If they don't improve it after beta I think many will not get Iphone 5S. Some argue it will attract new users but nobody knows how this transition will affect sales. Will more people join or leave? I suspect the later as the word from Android people is as much as they like this change its not offering them anything to jump ship.

sb22
Jun 13, 2013, 03:44 AM
Whilst I very much like iOS7 so far, many easily forget the benefits of iDevices to others.

iPads and iPhones are a massive deal when it comes to those with special needs and disabilities. It's one of the reasons we have stuck by Apple, I cannot even begin to tell you how they have opened doors for our autistic daughter.

A fresh iOS was needed, but I am a little worried about how my daughter is going to take this when she gets a hold of it. No doubt it will be a delight to the eye to some, I hear the fan boys complaining about its "childish" looks (er, hello, long gone are the days where iPhones appealled to just the suit and ties!)

From past experience, if the 5S cant produce the goods, then I'll wait til next year - and I have always upgraded, but on hindsight I've always felt stupid for doing so, especially from 4s to 5! I just get caught up in the excitement!

PS. I'm a female.... ;)

Davieis
Jun 13, 2013, 03:48 AM
Agree with everything said by the OP.

I won't be upgrading to iOS7 if final looks anything close to what I saw at WWDC. I'm shocked that this was even approved for public showcase.

syd430
Jun 13, 2013, 04:14 AM
I love people who try the first BETA... BETAAA and then start crying immediately... They clearly don't understand the meaning of that word...

I'm getting so tired of hearing the "it's a beta" argument. This thread and a lot of others, are about fundamental usability issues that are unlikely to be significantly different when the release candidate is available.

1) Apple is heavily promoting IOS 7 design in it's current form on it's website:

http://www.apple.com/ios/ios7/design/

2) iOS was left right and centre at WWDC and was there was an in-depth look at it in its current form with a lot of emphasis on design.

3) At WWDC and on it's website, Apple has heavily emphasised the greatness of the design of iOS 7, including specific reference to appearance and usability.

In my view and a lot of others view, it is a rushed product was not ready for WWDC. This should not have been released as even a public beta let alone marketed so early.

http://i.imgur.com/jJG5PEf.jpg

gadget123
Jun 13, 2013, 04:16 AM
I'm getting so tired of hearing the "it's a beta" argument. This thread and a lot of others, are about fundamental usability issues that are unlikely to be significantly different when the release candidate is available.

1) Apple is heavily promoting IOS 7 design in it's current form on it's website:

http://www.apple.com/ios/ios7/design/

2) iOS was left right and centre at WWDC and was there was an in-depth look at it in its current form with a lot of emphasis on design.

3) At WWDC and on it's website, Apple has heavily emphasised the greatness of the design of iOS 7, including specific reference to appearance and usability.

In my view and a lot of others view, it is a rushed product was not ready for WWDC. This should not have been released as even a public beta let alone marketed so early.

Image (http://i.imgur.com/jJG5PEf.jpg)

I reckon it will be close to how it will look so its been marketed.

Be interesting to see how it goes down to people who don't use these sites and just update by surprise.

Siggen
Jun 13, 2013, 04:27 AM
IMO, easier to use, but worse default settings.

The default settings are probably subject to change :) Or it might have just been my wonky restore :(

----------

I'm getting so tired of hearing the "it's a beta" argument. This thread and a lot of others, are about fundamental usability issues that are unlikely to be significantly different when the release candidate is available.

1) Apple is heavily promoting IOS 7 design in it's current form on it's website:

http://www.apple.com/ios/ios7/design/

2) iOS was left right and centre at WWDC and was there was an in-depth look at it in its current form with a lot of emphasis on design.

3) At WWDC and on it's website, Apple has heavily emphasised the greatness of the design of iOS 7, including specific reference to appearance and usability.

In my view and a lot of others view, it is a rushed product was not ready for WWDC. This should not have been released as even a public beta let alone marketed so early.

Image (http://i.imgur.com/jJG5PEf.jpg)

Well, its still only a beta. I think you have no right to complain at the beta stage. I've done iOS betas lots of times before, and I can tell you, it will get better. Is pretty good as it is now compared to previous first betas.


And there is always this article.
http://www.cultofmac.com/231674/apples-designers-werent-in-charge-of-ios-7-icons-overall-design-still-a-work-in-progress/

j4zb4
Jun 13, 2013, 05:15 AM
I'm getting so tired of hearing the "it's a beta" argument. This thread and a lot of others, are about fundamental usability issues that are unlikely to be significantly different when the release candidate is available.

1) Apple is heavily promoting IOS 7 design in it's current form on it's website:

http://www.apple.com/ios/ios7/design/

2) iOS was left right and centre at WWDC and was there was an in-depth look at it in its current form with a lot of emphasis on design.

3) At WWDC and on it's website, Apple has heavily emphasised the greatness of the design of iOS 7, including specific reference to appearance and usability.

In my view and a lot of others view, it is a rushed product was not ready for WWDC. This should not have been released as even a public beta let alone marketed so early.

Image (http://i.imgur.com/jJG5PEf.jpg)


I guess you have never done any beta testing before this...

Also there's a difference between marketing and testing... There's a reason it's not a public beta...

CosmoPilot
Jun 13, 2013, 05:18 AM
Apples problem is if they turn there back on the core user base.

With hundreds of millions of iOS devices sold, who exactly is Apple's core user base?

vmachiel
Jun 13, 2013, 06:25 AM
This beta will change more significantly than usual. All the reports about needed extra engineers transferred from OS X etc leads me to believe we will see a lot of beta releases, and that the current one is far from finalized.

mattopotamus
Jun 13, 2013, 07:12 AM
I love people who try the first BETA... BETAAA and then start crying immediately... They clearly don't understand the meaning of that word...

I may be wrong, but aren't apple beta's usually a really good representation of the final product. The beta's are usually just to iron out bugs....not to redesign the look and feel based on the users? That is how apple usually does it right?

bbeagle
Jun 13, 2013, 08:15 AM
This is probably the first case of simplicity =/= ease of use.

Along with all the details that people pointed out, especially the icons, I also think a lot of the problem is the fact that the less lines and buttons you have on screen (they are merely words now that you click) it gives you less context for where you are.

I dont mean on what page, but whats on the page itself.

There are no lines or organization, just blank white empty space with words strung about.

iOS was famously known for having the dynamic that any old person can just pick it up and intuitively use it. I believe that has been reduced now.


I agree.

I don't like that a lot of the icons have been replaced by words. It's a lot more difficult to navigate and looks uglier.

For example, in mail, swipe LEFT (instead of right), and you get 2 large blocks, a grey one and a red one. I can hardly read the white text in the grey block that says 'More'. The red one says 'Trash'. Why not have small icons that have a trash can and a ... or something? It's a LOT more intuitive to have pictures instead of words.

The slide to unlock is annoying. There is no clue WHICH WAY to slide to unlock. I've been used to a left-to-right swipe, and that works, but the other swipes don't work, and there is no clue that that is the correct way to swipe.

The OS is a lot harder to operate for a newbie. You need more training to use it. It's just as easy to use after you have the training, but it's just not Apple.

What if the trash can in OS X was replaced by a big giant red box with the word 'trash' in it? Is that nicer or uglier? Jonny Ive - what are you thinking?

LIVEFRMNYC
Jun 13, 2013, 08:22 AM
I may be wrong, but aren't apple beta's usually a really good representation of the final product. The beta's are usually just to iron out bugs....not to redesign the look and feel based on the users? That is how apple usually does it right?

Exactly, Betas are not Alphas.

remarkable
Jun 13, 2013, 08:27 AM
I'm getting so tired of hearing the "it's a beta" argument. This thread
In my view and a lot of others view, it is a rushed product was not ready for WWDC. This should not have been released as even a public beta let alone marketed so early.

Image (http://i.imgur.com/jJG5PEf.jpg)

I'm sorry. Maybe you're confused, but this is not a public beta. It's only available to developers. If the people downloading it all over the Internet that's their problem.

mattopotamus
Jun 13, 2013, 08:33 AM
I'm sorry. Maybe you're confused, but this is not a public beta. It's only available to developers. If the people downloading it all over the Internet that's their problem.

It is public in the sense they did a keynote and it is all over their website. This is IOS7, and if people do not like it now they will not like the final version. Will it be more stable and less laggy, of course it will. If they do not like it for the design and layout though they should not expect anything different if the final version.

syd430
Jun 13, 2013, 08:35 AM
I'm sorry. Maybe you're confused, but this is not a public beta. It's only available to developers. If the people downloading it all over the Internet that's their problem.

Yes you're right. Just the fact that it's so widely available for download made me almost forget that it's not actually a public beta.

VSMacOne
Jun 13, 2013, 08:39 AM
While there are a few things that still need some polish, i like the general direction of iOS7. Apple needed to shake things up and this is brilliant. They managed to make a vibrant yet consistent OS and it's going to see a LOT of changes over the course of the beta.

j4zb4
Jun 13, 2013, 08:57 AM
I may be wrong, but aren't apple beta's usually a really good representation of the final product. The beta's are usually just to iron out bugs....not to redesign the look and feel based on the users? That is how apple usually does it right?


You are correct... That would be the case under normal circumstances... But, I think we should consider the fact that it is a complete overhaul... More of a revolution than a simple evolution...


It is public in the sense they did a keynote and it is all over their website. This is IOS7, and if people do not like it now they will not like the final version. Will it be more stable and less laggy, of course it will. If they do not like it for the design and layout though they should not expect anything different if the final version.

The WWDC stands for "world wide DEVELOPERS conference"... It is certainly not meant for the public to use it... I agree they have it very extensively on the website... I think it is more to gauge the public response... I don't remember previous versions being highlighted so extensively on their website...

I still feel we might see a lot of changes in the coming months... I wouldn't be surprised if they have a team lurking forums and taking notes... :p

virginblue4
Jun 13, 2013, 09:00 AM
I feel that iOS 7 is very simple to use. As others have stated, I have given my iPhone 5 running iOS 7 to my parents who both have iPhones running iOS 6 and neither of them had the slightest problem using it.

They both complimented how nice it looked and they wanted to know if they could download it straight away!

Jimmy James
Jun 13, 2013, 09:04 AM
Agree 100%


I will pass final judgement once I see GM.

The Apple team trembles in fear while they await final judgement day.

Krevnik
Jun 13, 2013, 09:10 AM
Along with all the details that people pointed out, especially the icons, I also think a lot of the problem is the fact that the less lines and buttons you have on screen (they are merely words now that you click) it gives you less context for where you are.

I dont mean on what page, but whats on the page itself.

There are no lines or organization, just blank white empty space with words strung about.


That can definitely be a problem for some folks. I thrive on visual cues as well. However, I don't think these words accurately describe iOS 7. Let's compare iOS 7 to Windows Phone...

Windows phone has no separation between items other than whitespace. There's a button bar at the bottom, but that's it. However, iOS 7 is using lines to split the list from the header and footer of the view. It's using lines to split items within the list (with a different indentation). iOS 7 is also more information dense than Windows Phone in this case. Windows Phone has to rely on whitespace, and the pivot control at the top eats a lot of space. That lets iOS show more information in the summaries, like it always has.

iOS 7 at least uses color to help you out, much like hyperlinks in a web page (usually), to let you know what you can click. In Windows Phone, if those e-mails weren't unread, there'd be no color anywhere in that view.

mattopotamus
Jun 13, 2013, 09:40 AM
That can definitely be a problem for some folks. I thrive on visual cues as well. However, I don't think these words accurately describe iOS 7. Let's compare iOS 7 to Windows Phone...

Windows phone has no separation between items other than whitespace. There's a button bar at the bottom, but that's it. However, iOS 7 is using lines to split the list from the header and footer of the view. It's using lines to split items within the list (with a different indentation). iOS 7 is also more information dense than Windows Phone in this case. Windows Phone has to rely on whitespace, and the pivot control at the top eats a lot of space. That lets iOS show more information in the summaries, like it always has.

iOS 7 at least uses color to help you out, much like hyperlinks in a web page (usually), to let you know what you can click. In Windows Phone, if those e-mails weren't unread, there'd be no color anywhere in that view.

personally, I see no confusion with either of those layouts....it is clear who it is from, what is the subject, and what is the message.

joemeetsjane
Jun 13, 2013, 10:05 AM
i would rather apple dare for a change rather than compromise advancing out of fear like Microsoft prior to windows 8.

Krevnik
Jun 13, 2013, 11:02 AM
personally, I see no confusion with either of those layouts....it is clear who it is from, what is the subject, and what is the message.

My point wasn't exactly clear, I guess. I mostly was comparing and contrasting to show how the OPs point isn't terribly accurate ("sea of white"), and how Windows Phone uses almost entirely whitespace to position elements. Compared to how iOS 7 is still using quite a few other visual cues that Windows Phone does not.

However, when discussing visual cues, they are more helpful at guiding interaction with the device. And iOS 7 has completely changed those visual cues to something new. And some of those cues vary throughout the OS.

Using Mail as an example again. In the header and footer, blue is used to signal something clickable. Yet, in the list, a grey chevron (or double chevron) is used to signal something clickable. Color in the list is used to show status of the e-mail.

In the Music app, "T-Mobile Pink" is used to signal clickables in most places, except in the playing screen where you have interaction with other types of buttons as well that are black like the non-clickables.

And this is where confusion can become a problem. The visual cues are more limited, and makes it a little less clear in places what can be interacted with, and what can't. In practice I find this is more of a problem when you are first being introduced to a piece of software. However, that is also the time where you can make or break your relationship with your customer too. If they are frustrated early on, they aren't likely to keep using the software long enough to become familiar with it, and will move onto something else that they are more familiar with.

And I do like the ideas Apple is trying with visual cues, which is to use color. Since you don't have depth, it is a good way to go. Windows Phone doesn't even really try that, it uses luminance, which can mean multiple things depending on the control. However, Apple does apply it inconsistently in the beta at this point, which isn't terribly helpful to those making the switch.

Night Spring
Jun 13, 2013, 11:24 AM
And I do like the ideas Apple is trying with visual cues, which is to use color. Since you don't have depth, it is a good way to go. Windows Phone doesn't even really try that, it uses luminance, which can mean multiple things depending on the control. However, Apple does apply it inconsistently in the beta at this point, which isn't terribly helpful to those making the switch.

While color is better than nothing, I think clearly demarcated buttons are even better. Like in the Mail example, I know that the blue "Edit" at the top is clickable, yet every time I'm doing something in Mail and start looking for the "Edit," I can feel my brain stuttering as it tries to parse that yes, that blue word up there is the "button" I'm looking for. Maybe I'll get used to it given enough time, or maybe my brain is too old to make the adjustment after, I don't know, over twenty years of working with GUI where buttons looked like buttons. I just know that every time I spend some time working with iOS 7, and come back to iOS 6, (I have iOS 7 on my iphone 4S, while my other devices are all on 6) I feel like, "oh, thank god, this is SO much easier!"

Krevnik
Jun 13, 2013, 11:54 AM
While color is better than nothing, I think clearly demarcated buttons are even better. Like in the Mail example, I know that the blue "Edit" at the top is clickable, yet every time I'm doing something in Mail and start looking for the "Edit," I can feel my brain stuttering as it tries to parse that yes, that blue word up there is the "button" I'm looking for. Maybe I'll get used to it given enough time, or maybe my brain is too old to make the adjustment after, I don't know, over twenty years of working with GUI where buttons looked like buttons. I just know that every time I spend some time working with iOS 7, and come back to iOS 6, (I have iOS 7 on my iphone 4S, while my other devices are all on 6) I feel like, "oh, thank god, this is SO much easier!"

Learned behavior is hard to break. Doubly so when going back to the old behavior at the same time dealing with the new. Apple very specifically kept button locations as similar as possible in iOS 7 to try to ease the transition. Of course, if your learned behavior is "look for X" and X is now Y... that's gonna be a lot tougher than it is for someone who's learned behavior is "X is in the top right corner".

And I'd argue it doesn't help when the new visual cues are inconsistent. However, I can kinda see why removing the "button" is being looked at, since web design has been about interactions without a "button" for over 15 years.

alec6542
Jun 13, 2013, 01:31 PM
Worst of all it "feels" stylistically like android. Everything thats bad about it, I guess Jony Ive (rip my unequivocal respect, I guess Jobs was a lot more a sobering factor than I thought) liked that look?.

I read that Steve Jobs left four years worth of plans for the future of Apple since his death, so I'd say it's more than likely He approved of this design change. I can't imagine this being all last minute when Ive took over.

Hexiii
Jun 13, 2013, 02:03 PM
Excellent post, OP, that's pretty much why I don't like iOS7 yet. I don't mind changes (even the big ones), but this just wasn't done right. There are tons of imperfections... e.g. the magnifying glass in spotlight search is not centered with the text, all of those bottom application menus (App Store, Safari) have different margins on top and bottom and sometimes the screen is just too cluttered.

And great, the leather everbody hated on, was replaced by weird freaking paper imitation which fits even less with this design.

elistan
Jun 13, 2013, 03:00 PM
It's enlightening to watching the video of the "What’s New in iOS User Interface Design" session.

(A free developer account is required.)

https://developer.apple.com/wwdc/videos/?include=208#208

In it, the presenter mentions several times how interface elements in iOS 1 through 6 were included to provide clues on how to use the interface. Like Notes looking like a legal pad, Weather looking like cards, or Compass looking like it's from a yacht. And he mentions how many of those elements have been removed from iOS 7 because we now know how to operate the interface, via swipes and pinches and touches.

Of course, that assumes that the user is already familiar with iOS. By Apple's own admission, iOS 7 is deliberately less intuitive. Not an issue if you already know your way around, but it's a steeper learning curve for somebody new to smartphones.

Bobby Corwen
Jun 13, 2013, 06:39 PM
The only blur effect I do like is in the media player.

They should make everything uniform to that and the rest uniform with the phone call screen.

Cod3rror
Jun 13, 2013, 06:39 PM
I agree a lot regarding the white space. A big white space with numbers and words without any lines and sections of different colours is very confusing and hard to quickly glance at.

Take calendar for example.

iOS 6's calendar is much easier to look quickly glance at and get the information than iOS 7's because iOS 6's has sections top bar, the calendar, bottom bar, events section. Not to mention dots of days with events, how could they omit such a useful little detail?

FlatlinerG
Jun 13, 2013, 06:55 PM
The majority of what?:confused:

Whiners.

Shrink
Jun 13, 2013, 07:03 PM
Whiners.

Oh, OK...I can buy that.:p ;)

PrometheusGeek
Jun 13, 2013, 07:16 PM
The majority has spoken.

ya. :rolleyes: Typical narcissistic myopia. You and some of your equally vocal discontents don't like something because it didn't match the preconceived vision of your overly entitled minds, so you assume you're the "majority" and that most of the planet is with you. Same old story every time Apple releases anything new. People calling themselves the "majority" also didn't like the iPad and iPhone. Now they wish they'd just kept their mouths shut in the first place.

sclawis300
Jun 13, 2013, 07:23 PM
You apparently have not read all my posts on MR. I have read many of your recent posting, post WWDC, and you do sound like you are about 13-14 years old...am I close?

On topic: iOS 7 is currently a mess. It will get better, I hope it gets much better.

So he joined when he was 8??????

gadget123
Jun 13, 2013, 07:57 PM
With hundreds of millions of iOS devices sold, who exactly is Apple's core user base?

Most likely the ones who bought all the Iphones from 2007?

Bobby Corwen
Jun 13, 2013, 08:28 PM
I don't agree with the OP across the board, but I have to say I notice this with Safari now. With pages with an all-white background, it's now confusing where the page starts and the interface starts, and when it comes back in, it takes my eyes a few seconds to "find it" every time again.

I would totally vote for something like a flat, dark gray bar or something rather than white in this case.

I actually love iOS 7 for the most part, but he's right in some of what he says here.


Also, saying things like "I gave it to my mom and she figured it out, so it's fine." is missing the point.

I could give my mom a hardcover book and tell her to hammer a nail into a wall and she would figure it out, but that doesn't mean its the best way to do it. UI and UX is all about small details, how your eyes flow across a page, things that distract you for even a millisecond that can be improved, etc.

I think all of this will get better, but some of it is definitely not an improvement right now.

Well said. Continuity.

OP I agree with most all of what you said. This feels more like change for the sake of change. I did just figure out how to forward a text message so the quest for knowledge continues.

I think people underestimate how valuable things like disabled controls and colors go towards guiding users to accomplish a task. Or at least something, anything. Now it's a game of hide and seek where I'm staring at a screen where I know I can do something but I don't know how and there is no visible control. So try the same things over and over... Swipe, tap, double-tap, etc., and hopefully stumble onto something.

I'll use deleting or forwarding a text message in iOS 7 an example of design gone wrong or in this case "regressing usability".

Thats a huge point right there. Its just change for the sake of change and not because they had an even "slicker" interface.

Also, as much as I love that the Safari interface gets out of the way now, it took me quite a while to figure out how to get it back, or to go back and forward.

It's great that you can swipe from the edge for Back and Forward now, too, but most cases get in the way of that, and there's no way to just intuitively know you can do that, which is the problem with most gestures.

I didnt think of that. For cases its a problem.

what's interesting is that in a way they have introduced a huge skeuomorph across the whole phone.

Pre computers our dominant source of knowledge was books and magazines, which we interacted with via flipping back and forth between pages. Which is not unlike what all this swipe from the left, from the right is.

And yet because there are no page curls etc we don't see it like that.

Thats pretty much it, its just a different kind of skeuomorph.

it is different, obviously there will be a learning curve. my mother and father picked it up in quite no time at all

Well they are already used to it...

I think the new OS is actually fine to use. The extra functionality is a big improvement. Apple have done a great job there.

My beef is purely with the aesthetics.

1) The icons are dull and amateurish. I appreciate that using a grid-based design can be a fantastic template for print and web-sites but it works because it makes a fantastic use of white-space. In my opinion it is foolish to apply the same principles to a design aimed at one centimeter squared.

2) Gaussian blur is as bad as Corinthian leather, quite frankly it is tacky and not deferential in any way. How can blurring content be deferential to it? Content is important - if it is visible it should pop.

3) The dock is dull, boring and ugly. Gaussian blur at its worst.

4) Folders, which should give a sense of depth, are weird dull blobs.

5) Some animated transitions take too long.

The re skinned apps are great. I would probably rather have seen a border around buttons but the tint in text color for clickable user interface elements is fine.

Overall dull.

I reckon it will be close to how it will look so its been marketed.

Be interesting to see how it goes down to people who don't use these sites and just update by surprise.

Im sure Twitter will hate it. Guaranteed. They will annihilate it when it releases. I guarantee it.

This beta will change more significantly than usual. All the reports about needed extra engineers transferred from OS X etc leads me to believe we will see a lot of beta releases, and that the current one is far from finalized.

I honestly hope it changes.

I agree.

I don't like that a lot of the icons have been replaced by words. It's a lot more difficult to navigate and looks uglier.

For example, in mail, swipe LEFT (instead of right), and you get 2 large blocks, a grey one and a red one. I can hardly read the white text in the grey block that says 'More'. The red one says 'Trash'. Why not have small icons that have a trash can and a ... or something? It's a LOT more intuitive to have pictures instead of words.

The slide to unlock is annoying. There is no clue WHICH WAY to slide to unlock. I've been used to a left-to-right swipe, and that works, but the other swipes don't work, and there is no clue that that is the correct way to swipe.

The OS is a lot harder to operate for a newbie. You need more training to use it. It's just as easy to use after you have the training, but it's just not Apple.

What if the trash can in OS X was replaced by a big giant red box with the word 'trash' in it? Is that nicer or uglier? Jonny Ive - what are you thinking?

I agree. The words are huge downfall.

i would rather apple dare for a change rather than compromise advancing out of fear like Microsoft prior to windows 8.

Yeah but only if the interface is better, not an ugly side step. (sister?)

My point wasn't exactly clear, I guess. I mostly was comparing and contrasting to show how the OPs point isn't terribly accurate ("sea of white"), and how Windows Phone uses almost entirely whitespace to position elements. Compared to how iOS 7 is still using quite a few other visual cues that Windows Phone does not.

However, when discussing visual cues, they are more helpful at guiding interaction with the device. And iOS 7 has completely changed those visual cues to something new. And some of those cues vary throughout the OS.

Using Mail as an example again. In the header and footer, blue is used to signal something clickable. Yet, in the list, a grey chevron (or double chevron) is used to signal something clickable. Color in the list is used to show status of the e-mail.

In the Music app, "T-Mobile Pink" is used to signal clickables in most places, except in the playing screen where you have interaction with other types of buttons as well that are black like the non-clickables.

And this is where confusion can become a problem. The visual cues are more limited, and makes it a little less clear in places what can be interacted with, and what can't. In practice I find this is more of a problem when you are first being introduced to a piece of software. However, that is also the time where you can make or break your relationship with your customer too. If they are frustrated early on, they aren't likely to keep using the software long enough to become familiar with it, and will move onto something else that they are more familiar with.

And I do like the ideas Apple is trying with visual cues, which is to use color. Since you don't have depth, it is a good way to go. Windows Phone doesn't even really try that, it uses luminance, which can mean multiple things depending on the control. However, Apple does apply it inconsistently in the beta at this point, which isn't terribly helpful to those making the switch.

Well put.

While color is better than nothing, I think clearly demarcated buttons are even better. Like in the Mail example, I know that the blue "Edit" at the top is clickable, yet every time I'm doing something in Mail and start looking for the "Edit," I can feel my brain stuttering as it tries to parse that yes, that blue word up there is the "button" I'm looking for. Maybe I'll get used to it given enough time, or maybe my brain is too old to make the adjustment after, I don't know, over twenty years of working with GUI where buttons looked like buttons. I just know that every time I spend some time working with iOS 7, and come back to iOS 6, (I have iOS 7 on my iphone 4S, while my other devices are all on 6) I feel like, "oh, thank god, this is SO much easier!"

And thats a huge demerit to iOS 7 that you feel that way. iOS 7 is supposed to make you feel that way, not vice versa.

I read that Steve Jobs left four years worth of plans for the future of Apple since his death, so I'd say it's more than likely He approved of this design change. I can't imagine this being all last minute when Ive took over.

I honestly think this was a new thing starting around before the time when Scott Forstall was ousted.

Excellent post, OP, that's pretty much why I don't like iOS7 yet. I don't mind changes (even the big ones), but this just wasn't done right. There are tons of imperfections... e.g. the magnifying glass in spotlight search is not centered with the text, all of those bottom application menus (App Store, Safari) have different margins on top and bottom and sometimes the screen is just too cluttered.

And great, the leather everbody hated on, was replaced by weird freaking paper imitation which fits even less with this design.

I looked at this after you mentioned it and it made me cringe.

I agree a lot regarding the white space. A big white space with numbers and words without any lines and sections of different colours is very confusing and hard to quickly glance at.

Take calendar for example.

iOS 6's calendar is much easier to look quickly glance at and get the information than iOS 7's because iOS 6's has sections top bar, the calendar, bottom bar, events section. Not to mention dots of days with events, how could they omit such a useful little detail?

Yup it just feels amateurish.

gadget123
Jun 13, 2013, 08:35 PM
Im sure Twitter will hate it. Guaranteed. They will annihilate it when it releases. I guarantee it.


There's a lot of fuss about it now but once it goes live and people update I'm sure the mixed views will become more wide spread.

How will Apple convert the half who dislike it that's the question?

darngooddesign
Jun 13, 2013, 09:31 PM
There's a lot of fuss about it now but once it goes live and people update I'm sure the mixed views will become more wide spread.

How will Apple convert the half who dislike it that's the question?

There is no proof that half the people dislike it. You are assuming based on yours and the vocal minority's opinion.

gadget123
Jun 13, 2013, 09:35 PM
There is no proof that half the people dislike it. You are assuming based on yours and the vocal minority's opinion.

Course not.

But blogs and these sites is just like surveying say 300 people and getting a percentage.

It's obvious such a large change will draw bigger differences of opinion this time.

darngooddesign
Jun 13, 2013, 09:38 PM
Course not.

But blogs and these sites is just like surveying say 300 people and getting a percentage.

It's obvious such a large change will draw bigger differences of opinion this time.

Do you really think that people who read tech blogs and frequent tech forums are representative of the majority of smartphone users? Those blogs sure wish it were true as they get rich from all the page views.

If a star trek blog took a poll of star trek fans they would get a percentage, but how does that percentage have any bearing on the general public.

Bobby Corwen
Jun 14, 2013, 06:42 AM
Do you really think that people who read tech blogs and frequent tech forums are representative of the majority of smartphone users? Those blogs sure wish it were true as they get rich from all the page views.

If a star trek blog took a poll of star trek fans they would get a percentage, but how does that percentage have any bearing on the general public.

If a bunch of Apple fans hate it this much, on blogs and on this site, how do you think a bunch of indifferent people are going to react?

What about people who hate Apple? They will see in the worst light possible. People who are indifferent will have no reason no to give their honest opinion.

Twitter has attacked and made a mockery of Apple for much much less.

darngooddesign
Jun 14, 2013, 07:08 AM
If a bunch of Apple fans hate it this much, on blogs and on this site, how do you think a bunch of indifferent people are going to react?

Some apple fans and some other people.

What about people who hate Apple? They will see in the worst light possible. People who are indifferent will have no reason no to give their honest opinion.

They were criticizing apple anyway so nothing has changed

Twitter has attacked and made a mockery of Apple for much much less.

Twitter is an app.

Holty123
Jun 14, 2013, 07:24 AM
I may be wrong, but aren't apple beta's usually a really good representation of the final product. The beta's are usually just to iron out bugs....not to redesign the look and feel based on the users? That is how apple usually does it right?
Yes you are right things won't change that much
(In my opinion)

gadget123
Jun 14, 2013, 07:32 AM
Do you really think that people who read tech blogs and frequent tech forums are representative of the majority of smartphone users? Those blogs sure wish it were true as they get rich from all the page views.

If a star trek blog took a poll of star trek fans they would get a percentage, but how does that percentage have any bearing on the general public.

Well the best way is a thread where users here ask people what there friends and family think of it? Like or not like ?

Michaelgtrusa
Jun 14, 2013, 08:12 AM
Some ideas here. http://stam-design-stam.blogspot.com/2013/06/ios-7.html

Jimrod
Jun 14, 2013, 08:50 AM
I have been using iOS 7 since Monday and not a single thing has confused me. In fact, I love the look and feel of everything so far.

I guess I'm in the minority of people who understand arrows.

You see this is where my problem comes in - the unlock screen, "Swipe to unlock" and being left-handed I naturally swipe my thumb to the left where nothing happens (same for swipe to answer calls etc etc). I never even noticed this in iOS 6 due to the obvious slider. This is also if I ignore the ^ arrow that sits below the swipe text of course. 4 days in and I still do this from time to time, I think either indicate a direction or make swipes of both directions work. Seems simple enough but it's something I never had to get used to before...

DDustiNN
Jun 14, 2013, 12:06 PM
You see this is where my problem comes in - the unlock screen, "Swipe to unlock" and being left-handed I naturally swipe my thumb to the left where nothing happens (same for swipe to answer calls etc etc). I never even noticed this in iOS 6 due to the obvious slider. This is also if I ignore the ^ arrow that sits below the swipe text of course. 4 days in and I still do this from time to time, I think either indicate a direction or make swipes of both directions work. Seems simple enough but it's something I never had to get used to before...

But since swiping right has been the iPhone standard for so many years, I'm confused as to how this is even an issue. Unlocking my phone is so ingrained into my brain that I barely even look at it. By body just knows what to do by habit. So to me, that's pretty bizarre that you consider that a problem.

Anyway, as for the lack of an arrow slider... I think the glistening text muses up for that. It shows you which way to slide.

Brittany246
Jun 14, 2013, 12:13 PM
You'll get used to it eventually.

BvizioN
Jun 14, 2013, 12:25 PM
I love people who try the first BETA... BETAAA and then start crying immediately... They clearly don't understand the meaning of that word...

I belive that majority of people complaining about iOS 7 have not even used it yet. Just based on what they have seen.

Tinmania
Jun 14, 2013, 12:41 PM
I read that Steve Jobs left four years worth of plans for the future of Apple since his death, so I'd say it's more than likely He approved of this design change. I can't imagine this being all last minute when Ive took over.
So Jobs pre-planned Forstall's firing? Sure.



Michael

Jimrod
Jun 14, 2013, 01:39 PM
But since swiping right has been the iPhone standard for so many years, I'm confused as to how this is even an issue. Unlocking my phone is so ingrained into my brain that I barely even look at it. By body just knows what to do by habit. So to me, that's pretty bizarre that you consider that a problem.

Anyway, as for the lack of an arrow slider... I think the glistening text muses up for that. It shows you which way to slide.

Oh I agree, I've had iPhones since the 3G so you'd think it would work like that but when you just see "Swipe" for some reason you just go the way that feels natural (at least I do), the flashing text is very subtle. But that's what made the earlier iOS systems work well, you never felt you had to think about anything, it was always obvious. It's all in the little details. Either way it's early in the Beta yet so things may change...

musio
Jun 14, 2013, 01:44 PM
There are some nice ios7 addtions but i'd rather the updated 6 rather than re-wrote it.

When i saw the iphone software first you could figure things out
When I saw ios7 first it looked a mess and confusing.
It doesn't seem intuitive...

jelloboy
Jun 14, 2013, 02:06 PM
I have a VCR for sale -- sure the clock flashes 12:00 constantly but at least its not new or different.