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View Full Version : Skeuomorphism still exists in Mavericks


Gregintosh
Jun 13, 2013, 06:37 AM
I noticed the Reminders app is largely unchanged, containing a black "leather" look. Not as obvious as the old Calendar or Contacts apps used to be but it is still Skeuomorphism. I hope they flush it all out by the time the release hits RTM!

Four oF NINE
Jun 13, 2013, 07:12 AM
You see leather? Where? Are you using Mavericks? I ask because I'm not seeing it. At all.

MacReloaded
Jun 13, 2013, 07:16 AM
Reminders looks the same as on Mountain Lion.

Gregintosh
Jun 13, 2013, 07:32 AM
The reminders app has the fake black leather in the background and fake notebook look for the to-do items.

I just installed it today so I haven't explored much else, but I wonder where else it will creep up.

negativzero
Jun 13, 2013, 07:48 AM
Yup, still creeps up with that ugly faux leather texture.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10845819/reminders.png

Michaelgtrusa
Jun 13, 2013, 07:56 AM
I hope they keep some of it.

Yixian
Jun 13, 2013, 08:43 AM
I feel like they under-did it with the visual side of Mavericks. How hard would it have been to give OS X the new dock from iOS 7, and use the assets from apps that exist on both OSs to update the OS X look and feel along with iOS 7?

I wonder if they can manage it in time for release..

Michael Goff
Jun 13, 2013, 08:49 AM
I hope they keep some of it.

Why?

So we can have an inconsistent UI?

MacReloaded
Jun 13, 2013, 08:49 AM
I feel like they under-did it with the visual side of Mavericks. How hard would it have been to give OS X the new dock from iOS 7, and use the assets from apps that exist on both OSs to update the OS X look and feel along with iOS 7?

I wonder if they can manage it in time for release..

They just updated the side dock in Mavericks to match the bottom dock in Mountain Lion only without the 3D. It looks like they're not going to use the visuals from iOS 7 in Mavericks.

Michaelgtrusa
Jun 13, 2013, 09:03 AM
Why?

So we can have an inconsistent UI?

You like a plain look?

Michael Goff
Jun 13, 2013, 09:08 AM
You like a plain look?

I suppose you're talking about the "plain" of the contacts, right?

I think it looks nice.

I hope they make reminders look that nice.

Michaelgtrusa
Jun 13, 2013, 09:18 AM
I suppose you're talking about the "plain" of the contacts, right?

I think it looks nice.

I hope they make reminders look that nice.

They took to much out on my opinion, contacts, notes and calendar in 10.9 are to plain jane for my taste. It may seem inconsistant to some but, "Think Different"

Michael Goff
Jun 13, 2013, 09:24 AM
They took to much out on my opinion, contacts, notes and calendar in 10.9 are to plain jane for my taste. It may seem inconsistant to some but, "Think Different"

"Think different" shouldn't be used to make something look horrible. Also, yeah, contacts looks "out" right now because they haven't changed the entire UI yet.

This is easily ten times better looking than the old contacts apps.

Four oF NINE
Jun 13, 2013, 09:51 AM
I'm sorry but there are no leather visual elements to be found anywhere in Reminders with Mavericks.

MacReloaded
Jun 13, 2013, 09:57 AM
I'm sorry but there are no leather visual elements to be found anywhere in Reminders with Mavericks.

Alright then. Show us.

HenryDJP
Jun 13, 2013, 10:06 AM
I feel like they under-did it with the visual side of Mavericks. How hard would it have been to give OS X the new dock from iOS 7, and use the assets from apps that exist on both OSs to update the OS X look and feel along with iOS 7?

I wonder if they can manage it in time for release..

It would've been hard for me to look at. That's just plain looking. Works for iOS but for Mac OS the 3D Dock works. It would've been cool to give it a new look but not the iOS Dock. Actually if you've been on Mac long enough you'd know that iOS7's Dock is the Mac Dock from Tiger and before then.

phillytim
Jun 13, 2013, 11:32 AM
After seeing the new iOS Reminders, the OS X Mavericks Reminders looks pretty gloomy.

baller1308
Jun 13, 2013, 05:06 PM
I'm sorry but there are no leather visual elements to be found anywhere in Reminders with Mavericks.
It's not so much about the leather, but the skeuomorphism for Reminders still exists in Mavericks, since it looks exactly the same as it does in ML.

Soundflunky
Jun 13, 2013, 06:15 PM
There's skeuomorphism everywhere in OSX. I have no idea why you're just focusing on a few apps.

myxomatosis
Jun 13, 2013, 06:58 PM
Well... It’s a developer preview, I assume the UI part is not completed yet.

Game Center still has its ugly green felt background. It will be gone when Mavericks is released this fall

Michael Goff
Jun 13, 2013, 07:04 PM
Well... Itís a developer preview, I assume the UI part is not completed yet.

Game Center still has its ugly green felt background. It will be gone when Mavericks is released this fall

Agreed.

They don't even have the iOS UI done... and they clearly have a bigger team doing that.

cocky jeremy
Jun 13, 2013, 07:30 PM
Notes look different in Mavericks? If so, can someone post a screenshot? :)

(If you don't mind, reply to this post so I get a notification)

myxomatosis
Jun 13, 2013, 07:40 PM
Notes look different in Mavericks? If so, can someone post a screenshot? :)

(If you don't mind, reply to this post so I get a notification)

http://s24.postimg.org/l1ooq6jjp/Untitled_1.png

irDigital0l
Jun 13, 2013, 07:45 PM
I think Apple will tone Contacts, Reminders, Game Center, PhotoBooth down.

They did it with Calendar and Notes so I dont see why they wouldnt for others.

cocky jeremy
Jun 13, 2013, 09:36 PM
Image (http://s24.postimg.org/l1ooq6jjp/Untitled_1.png)

Thanks. It's not bad.

myxomatosis
Jun 13, 2013, 10:34 PM
Yup looks good ;)

lewismayell
Jun 14, 2013, 01:22 AM
I don't think a desktop OS will look good with an iOS still theme, it will be too mobile looking

Michaelgtrusa
Jun 14, 2013, 10:24 AM
Image (http://s24.postimg.org/l1ooq6jjp/Untitled_1.png)

Plain! Needs Ive.

clukas
Jun 14, 2013, 01:04 PM
I think Apple will tone Contacts, Reminders, Game Center, PhotoBooth down.

They did it with Calendar and Notes so I dont see why they wouldnt for others.

I think they definitely will, and perhaps already have. We currently only have access to dp 1 which ultimately is made available for developers to test apps, and not for consumers to test the os.

SantaRosa2.2
Jun 14, 2013, 03:29 PM
Image (http://s24.postimg.org/l1ooq6jjp/Untitled_1.png)

I really don't like the "hospital waiting room" beige of the notes app...:(

thekev
Jun 14, 2013, 05:39 PM
Not as obvious as the old Calendar or Contacts apps used to be but it is still Skeuomorphism.

You're getting way too hung up on semantics.

Bluesdealer
Jun 21, 2013, 04:32 PM
ITT: People talking about a design tool they didn't know existed 2 years ago. ;)

All kidding aside, though, while I like the idea of less visual clutter, some gradients and shading are nice, especially on a desktop computer where a non-gradient, pure white background can wreak havoc on the eyes with a 27" monitor.

Skeuomorphism, in and of itself, isn't bad a thing. It's only when it exists with no functional purpose. Think of the "files" and "folders" in your computer's HDD. These are a skeuomorphic concept, and surely a justified use of it!

The dark texture on the Mavericks Reminders app is not bad; in fact it's similar to the background texture on the iOS7 Notes app. I don't find it distracting or distasteful, whatsoever. The notepad section of Reminders is, in fact, skeuomorphic, but it serves a functional purpose. The rule lines separate reminders and the margin provides a place for checkoffs. Unlike Game Center and Find My Friends, the Reminders app is an example skeumorphism done properly.

That said, I wouldn't be surprised if Reminders does eventually get a overhaul to fall in line with the new, simpler, flat, aesthetic Apple is going for, but I don't agree with the criticism directed at the current version.

MartiNZ
Jun 21, 2013, 07:11 PM
Plain! Needs Ive.

Ive needs to leave OS X well enough alone! The job of the desktop UI is to get out of the way and let us work. Consistency is very important and we may finally be almost there. Plain is fantastic for desktop, psychedelic can come to iOS, but not the desktop.

Simplicated
Jun 22, 2013, 03:05 AM
"Think different" shouldn't be used to make something look horrible. Also, yeah, contacts looks "out" right now because they haven't changed the entire UI yet.

This is easily ten times better looking than the old contacts apps.

Whether skeuomorphism is good is subjective.

ValSalva
Jun 22, 2013, 07:17 AM
I really don't like the "hospital waiting room" beige of the notes app...:(

:D It looks like they just left some of the graphic assets out of the the beta build and this is what's left. It doesn't look like the notes app has received much individual attention... yet.

The way Apple works, with teams moving from project to project, and with iOS getting priority, it may be a while before all of the Mavericks apps gets the facelifts they need. I wouldn't be surprised to see iOS 7 launch before Mavericks.

Michael Goff
Jun 22, 2013, 07:42 AM
Whether skeuomorphism is good is subjective.

Appearance is generally subjective, yes.

Michaelgtrusa
Jun 22, 2013, 08:25 AM
Good article here. http://www.technightowl.com/2013/06/more-nonsense-about-os-x-from-the-pundits/

MrNomNoms
Jun 22, 2013, 08:49 AM
I noticed the Reminders app is largely unchanged, containing a black "leather" look. Not as obvious as the old Calendar or Contacts apps used to be but it is still Skeuomorphism. I hope they flush it all out by the time the release hits RTM!

Photo Booth still has it as well - I'm sure they'll remove it but the main focus I guess was pushing something out there for the developers to get a hold of along with the executives having something to show off at the conference. IMHO this is the first release in a long time I've actually been excited about a OS X release - we're actually seeing some improvements in the areas that matter such as per-tab processing for Safari, memory compression, Core Storage being improved, Quicktime/QTKit finally replaced with AV Kit/AV Foundation, OpenGL and OpenCL updated, video card drivers improved etc. Maybe the head honchos have finally realised that they can't put all their eggs in one basket when it comes to growth - or at least I hope that is the justification.

MarcBook
Jun 22, 2013, 08:54 AM
Have some people forgotten/not realised that it's just a developer preview at the moment? It's nowhere near finished yet.

bushido
Jun 22, 2013, 09:33 AM
i hate the new / old calendar actually, it makes it almost impossible to see when a new month starts because it looks all the same and it took me a bit to realize u have to scroll down instead of "flip" sideways now lol

Ddyracer
Jun 22, 2013, 11:59 AM
Is DP1 onsidered an Alpha or Beta?

chown33
Jun 22, 2013, 01:32 PM
Is DP1 onsidered an Alpha or Beta?

What difference would it make?

Ddyracer
Jun 22, 2013, 01:39 PM
What difference would it make?

Wow your hostile. I just want to know.

Meyvn
Jun 23, 2013, 08:20 AM
Wow your hostile. I just want to know.

Didn't read as hostile to me. I think the point is: "Alpha" and "Beta" are not scientific terms. You can call a product whatever you want. There's no official measuring stick. Mavericks is plainly, obviously quite unfinished. It's DP1. There will probably be at least 3 more released prior to the GM. We know from reports that they pulled engineers off OS X to aid with the massive changes in iOS 7.

And it's clear from using it that the ones who stayed on 10.9 had priorities. Getting Maps out the door at all was clearly one of them, as were Safari 7 and the tabbed/tagged Finder. Game Center and Contacts clearly weren't priorities. I would argue that this is the most unfinished developer preview we have seen in years in terms of visible, user-facing stuff (in terms of under-the-hood functionality and bugs I couldn't begin to make an informed comparison).

Take that for what you will; you can make your own determinations about what to call it; Apple calls it Developer Preview 1.

Synaesthesia242
Jun 23, 2013, 08:27 AM
Apple frequently holds back UI changes for a beta OS, I would not be surprised in the least if the UI changes significantly before release.

The Leopard previews for example did not include the new dock and look, this was announced only when the final version came out.

Meyvn
Jun 23, 2013, 08:40 AM
Apple frequently holds back UI changes for a beta OS, I would not be surprised in the least if the UI changes significantly before release.

The Leopard previews for example did not include the new dock and look, this was announced only when the final version came out.

Some things are less likely than others to require early introductions. Reskinning the Dock didn't at all change the way the Dock worked (did they wait until launch to introduce Stacks, Fans and Grids?), so it didn't really require testing in the way that a new fundamental UI language often would. That isn't to say there won't be apps with similar situations in Mavericks, but if they're doing anything other than reskinning buttons they're going to want to run it by at least some testers.

Michaelgtrusa
Jun 26, 2013, 04:02 AM
Aesthetics review - OS X 10.9 Mavericks http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyZAa-c_ZH4

jncoanalog
Jun 28, 2013, 04:52 AM
Thanks. It's not bad.

No. It's freaking dead!

At least they didn't introduce the visual hierarchy problems from iOS7, yet... :D