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runninmac
Nov 4, 2005, 06:14 PM
I hope no one has posted this yet but according to apple insider Powerbooks will most likely be making the tranistion first to intel. Also they posted some other vauge details... sounds cool Link (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=1359)

Flying Llama
Nov 4, 2005, 06:15 PM
Cool, can't wait to see the benchmarks!

llama :)

balamw
Nov 4, 2005, 06:19 PM
What! No 12" PB on the roadmap. I thought they were among the best selling boxes, no? :( Think I might like the rumored 13" widescreen iBook though if they equip it with an HD resolution screen ...

B

hyperpasta
Nov 4, 2005, 06:36 PM
Let the 2006 Rumor Season begin! I've been waiting for this for a while now. I think the iBooks will swithc before the Powerbooks, tohugh, waiting for more advanced Intel chips before jumping. Dual-Core sounds good, and so does iSight in the Powerbooks.

runninmac
Nov 4, 2005, 06:39 PM
Let the 2006 Rumor Season begin! I've been waiting for this for a while now. I think the iBooks will swithc before the Powerbooks, tohugh, waiting for more advanced Intel chips before jumping. Dual-Core sounds good, and so does iSight in the Powerbooks.

2006 seems like its gonna be a long rumor season!:D

With the Powerbooks going before iBooks I belive that becuase from many of the tests the Pentium M arictecture kills the G4s. (or at least I pretty sure correct me if im wrong)

soosy
Nov 4, 2005, 07:04 PM
I think it makes sense to get Intel Macs out there as soon as possible. No reason to wait now that it's been announced.

eXan
Nov 4, 2005, 07:05 PM
Well it seems that no-one delayed intel-switch yet :(

Hope they wont be so stupid to attach Intel Inside sticky on new PBs! :eek:

Phatpat
Nov 4, 2005, 07:05 PM
I am going to get myself one of these.

I was planning on a minor dilemma choosing between the 12" iBook and 12" Powerbook. A 13" iBook certainly sounds appealing, though a 15" Powerbook a little earlier with a built in isight might be nice, especially if they drop the price again.

I know a lot of people with Powerbooks, and of those who have gotten them recently, there are more 12" Powerbooks than others. Oh well, gotta wait and see.

JDOG_
Nov 4, 2005, 07:09 PM
Sounds awesome. Count me in for the powerbook :)

Maybe they'll drop the price just a bit too just to get more people to bite. I'd love for the new iBook range to start at $599 and the new Powerbook line to start at $1,399 (or below :) With that and the stagnation of Vista, Apple could really make quite a move on the marketshare front.

TomSmithMacEd
Nov 4, 2005, 07:10 PM
I'm just hoping before next school year, I'm going off to college, and will be Purchasing a Powerbook, no matter what is inside of it.

25% thinner.... that's less than an inch baby.

mad jew
Nov 4, 2005, 07:10 PM
This is just the start of what will be a beautiful period in Apple's history. :)

ppc_michael
Nov 4, 2005, 07:11 PM
That's cool, although it's sad that my PowerBook will soon be outdated. :(

FrontRow on a laptop though? Seems kind of odd...

mad jew
Nov 4, 2005, 07:12 PM
FrontRow on a laptop though? Seems kind of odd...


True, although I find I watch more movies on my iBook than my iMac.

TaKashMoney
Nov 4, 2005, 07:18 PM
Hmm I love my new iBook so much. An Intel 13" sure will make me jealous...

Westside guy
Nov 4, 2005, 07:18 PM
Man that sounds sweet... but there's no way I'll be buying the Rev. A version of a notebook with that many changes. :D

It will be tempting though!

Fender
Nov 4, 2005, 07:18 PM
I wouldn't bother with a Rev A; let someone else be the guinea pig.

plastique45
Nov 4, 2005, 07:24 PM
2006 seems like its gonna be a long rumor season!:D

With the Powerbooks going before iBooks I belive that becuase from many of the tests the Pentium M arictecture kills the G4s. (or at least I pretty sure correct me if im wrong)

You BELIEVE?! A 3 year old PC beats any G4. The G4 was in the race only against the Penthium 3.

Dr. Dastardly
Nov 4, 2005, 07:30 PM
Hopefully a 13" widescreen Powerbook, why should the iBook get all the fun.

MWSF baby!!:eek:

zv470
Nov 4, 2005, 07:30 PM
Sweet, bring it on! :)

PlaceofDis
Nov 4, 2005, 07:31 PM
You BELIEVE?! A 3 year old PC beats any G4. The G4 was in the race only against the Penthium 3.

not exactly, the G4 has its good qualities, although it doesn't really compare with the Pentium M.... its still not a bad chip, i get along fine still on my Rev A. 12" Powerbook

Whistleway
Nov 4, 2005, 07:31 PM
how would you get an isight into the powerbook display?

nagromme
Nov 4, 2005, 07:31 PM
My Visa card just leapt out of my wallet like a spawning salmon.

Squire
Nov 4, 2005, 07:31 PM
I think it makes sense to get Intel Macs out there as soon as possible. No reason to wait now that it's been announced.

I agree wholeheartedly. And 13" is a real sweet spot in terms of notebooks in my opinion. I have a 13" widescreen Vaio and the combination of screen size and portability is great.

I wonder when the mac mini will go intel. It makes sense for the 'books to go first. I am, however, in the market for a desktop (as soon as I build up the ol' bank account). A kickass mac mini would be nice. Or else, go for the G5 iMac.

Squire

runninmac
Nov 4, 2005, 07:35 PM
how would you get an isight into the powerbook display?

Not "in" the display but around the display area. Like the new iMac G5.

w_parietti22
Nov 4, 2005, 07:38 PM
20 to 25% thinner form factor on the PBs? wow! :eek: Can you say flash memory?

EricNau
Nov 4, 2005, 07:38 PM
how would you get an isight into the powerbook display?
There was a thread a while back, I think it will answer your question.

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=149678

nagromme
Nov 4, 2005, 07:39 PM
Think I might like the rumored 13" widescreen iBook though if they equip it with an HD resolution screen ...
I think very FEW people would like 1920x1080+ on a 13" screen, if they actually sat down and tried to use such a thing. :D Talk about fine print!


I think the iBooks will swithc before the Powerbooks, tohugh, waiting for more advanced Intel chips before jumping.
The PB needs a faster chip. Not that raw speed is everything (that's the OS!) but the G4 can't match the current Pentium M, much less the upcoming Yonah generation. So no need to wait for Merom/late-06. Apple will want Yonah in a PB ASAP. You might say Apple would want more than mere MHz separating the CPU of the iBook and PBook--but MHz is ALREADY all that separates the CPUs of the two lines.


That's cool, although it's sad that my PowerBook will soon be outdated. :(
But while I'm enjoying my new YonahBook, you'll be able to run ALL Mac software without a care in the world. I, on the other hand will (for a time) have to worry about what runs in Rosetta or doesn't, and how fast. So don't feel too bad about having a PPC. There are benefits on both sides.


how would you get an isight into the powerbook display?
Well, what *I* would do is mount is sideways in the top frame, with a mirror to angle the sightline outwards.

But Apple has a patent showing a camera that sticks way out--but also works as a latch. Sounds awkward to me, but we have only seen a diagram, not a real design.

EricNau
Nov 4, 2005, 07:40 PM
20 to 25% thinner form factor on the PBs? wow! :eek: Can you say flash memory?
I don't think so for three reasons:

Too expensive
not realiable enough
too limiting in size

Morky
Nov 4, 2005, 07:44 PM
<sarcasm> No way, Photobooth included?! Drool.... </sarcasm>

Ja Di ksw
Nov 4, 2005, 07:46 PM
FrontRow on a laptop though? Seems kind of odd...

I watch movies on my PB all the time. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't they say Photo Booth, not FrontRow? The two don't really have anything in common.

These machines sound great, I can't wait to see them in action.

Demon Hunter
Nov 4, 2005, 07:46 PM
Wow, maybe I'll skip Rev. E altogether... Rev. A sounds scary but with all the issues the new PowerBooks have... :(

You BELIEVE?! A 3 year old PC beats any G4. The G4 was in the race only against the Penthium 3.

Let me guess you've never owned an Apple before? The G4 has evolved into a solid laptop chip. It competes with the Pentium M at the same clock speed. The "Penthium" 4 is a desktop chip. :rolleyes:

joebells
Nov 4, 2005, 07:47 PM
if you look at the disection pictures of the imac with isight its a very small circuit board it looks like it could fit fairly easily in the lid

Demon Hunter
Nov 4, 2005, 07:47 PM
I don't think so for three reasons:

Too expensive
not realiable enough
too limiting in size



Maybe they pulled another crazy deal for flash chips... Nano anyone?

irmongoose
Nov 4, 2005, 07:48 PM
Am I the only one who got mistakingly excited that the cameras are going to be somehow inside the display so that you could have eye contact with the person you are chatting with? I find that to be the largest flaw with video chatting... it never seems like you are talking to that person because he/she is always looking somewhere else.

Aw well, maybe in another 10 years... bleh.




irmongoose

zapp
Nov 4, 2005, 07:50 PM
My Visa card just leapt out of my wallet like a spawning salmon.

unfortunately most of samon die before they spawn, but I do have some good news, i just saved a bunch of money on me car insurance by switching to geiko

g0gie
Nov 4, 2005, 07:54 PM
GRRRRRR and i just bought a new powerbook too!!!! Oh well, ill wiati for the merom powerbooks anyways

samh004
Nov 4, 2005, 07:56 PM
I'm not looking forward to having an iSight built into a PB, I already have an iSight, and it's much better outside the enclosure where you can point it in any direction you need. It also has a shutter to make sure no ones looking when you least expect it... I don't believe the iMac has one, and neither would the PB's... :(

Also, how exactly do you fit a iSight into the display when it's already less than a cm thick.

I would much prefer an iSight in the consumer laptop, the iBook, and then keep the external one for the PB, they could bundle it just so you weren't getting any less.

EricNau
Nov 4, 2005, 07:58 PM
Maybe this is the reason for the rather lame Powerbook updates recently... Apple has been too busy working on the Rev. A Intels.

Dagless
Nov 4, 2005, 07:58 PM
godzz hwo lam3!!!

Nah, i cant wait for intel macs :) or rather i can. I'm sticking with my 12" PowerBook till the age starts to show. right now this is running everything I want at top speeds. 15" PowerBook is my next step i think, it always was. Intel just makes it better!

EricNau
Nov 4, 2005, 07:59 PM
Also, how exactly do you fit a iSight into the display when it's already less than a cm thick.

Look about 13 posts up. ;)
EDIT: More like 14-15 up

robotx21
Nov 4, 2005, 08:09 PM
Does using intel chips mean that mac's will now be just as fast as PC's? I hope so :-D

EricNau
Nov 4, 2005, 08:11 PM
Does using intel chips mean that mac's will now be just as fast as PC's? I hope so :-D
Last time I checked Macs were much faster than PC's.

mad jew
Nov 4, 2005, 08:12 PM
Does using intel chips mean that mac's will now be just as fast as PC's? I hope so :-D


They'll likely have a similar clock speed (if not the same) but there's much more to a computer's speed than simply the CPU.

EricNau
Nov 4, 2005, 08:13 PM
Does using intel chips mean that mac's will now be just as fast as PC's? I hope so :-D
I think I understand what you meant now, were you referring to processor clock speed (which by the way is a bad way to judge speed)?
I doubt we will see faster clock speeds with intel chips. Right now, the best chips Intel makes (Itanium2) runs at 1.66 GHz.

AndrewMT
Nov 4, 2005, 08:14 PM
Um, 20-30% thinner? I'm sorry, but the Powerbooks are thin enough as it is. Making a peice of hardware thinner requires engineers to cut corners, and that's not good for the consumer. So, why don't we leave the Powerbooks at around 1" so there is plenty of room for a decent graphics card (comparable to what you can get in a Dell XPS laptop - Nvidia GeForce Go 7800 GTX), because now that the powerbooks have intel, I'm going to be dual booting into Windows so that I can finally play some serious games.

Honestly, I wouldn't care if the powerbook was half an inch bigger. Also, I don't care how much hacking it takes, but I will be playing Half Life 2 and Dreamfall on Windows, on an Intel Mac, next Spring.

mashinhead
Nov 4, 2005, 08:15 PM
Last time I checked Macs were much faster than PC's.

when was the last time you checked? 1997??

zelet
Nov 4, 2005, 08:15 PM
To those of you that say the G4 competes with a Centrino chipset... you are sadly mistaken. I have a 12" Powerbook (1 GHz) and an IBM T43p. The IBM smokes the Powerbook so bad it makes me cringe. The only reason I stick with Apple is because of OS X and the fact that they are finally moving away from such a sickly and outdated chipset that is the G4.

I can't wait for the switch. With Intel chips and Apple's OS and design - these are going to be the best laptops ever produced - like the Powerbooks were when they were first released.

EricNau
Nov 4, 2005, 08:16 PM
They'll likely have a similar clock speed (if not the same) but there's much more to a computer's speed than simply the CPU.
So true.
And there is so much more to processor than just clock speed.
One very important thing that contributes to the overall speed of a computer is the Front Side Bus - Something Apple has done well with, 1.25 GHz! :eek:

Cinch
Nov 4, 2005, 08:19 PM
How about making a practical and beautiful laptop out of the 12" or 13" models. I would like one with 6+ hours of real life use, and I think it is totally possible w/ today's technology. We can eliminate the CD/DVD drive which will free up lots of space for a larger battery. Lets also eliminate the modem port, I mean who uses this anymore. While we are at it, eliminate the ethernet port. There are so many hotspots now, I can't imagine needing one. We can also elimnate firewire ports and just have two or three USB2 ports. That is it; just three USB2 and a video out port. That is all we need.

I like to use a laptop like a cell phone i.e. I don't want to plug it in during the day. I guess I just hate see Dell's laptop at meetings where the owner says, "oops, I have to plug my laptop in before it runs out of juice." Yeah 10 minute into the meeting:D . This happens all the time. It is very comical!

I don't need the speed to do number crunching simulation. All I need is a snappy OSX that will run Office and Safari well.

Back to you,
Cinch

mad jew
Nov 4, 2005, 08:19 PM
One very important thing that contributes to the overall speed of a computer is 'Front Side Bus' - Something Apple has done well with, 1.25 GHz! :eek:


Well, IBM has done well with the G5 but the G4 is a different kettle of sea-creature. :(

zelet, the CPU is only a small part of a computer's overall performance.

EricNau
Nov 4, 2005, 08:20 PM
regarding the speed of Macs...
when was the last time you checked? 1997??
It depends what "speed" you are talking about, if it is the overall speed of the computer, Macs are much faster. If you are talking about Clock Speed, then Apple has always been slower, but clock speed is nearly useless unless comparing two processors of the same type (ie: P4 1.2 GHz : P4 1.8 GHz). (aka: Megahertz Myth)

losingground
Nov 4, 2005, 08:21 PM
i've always wished it were possible to hide a camera, somehow, someway, in the center of the screen, invisibly. that way you can make eye contact with whomever you're chatting with, and look at them at the same time.

if anyone could do it, or would do it first, it'd be apple.

joebells
Nov 4, 2005, 08:23 PM
Last time I checked Macs were much faster than PC's.


Unfortunately thats not true, look at comments from developers using the first intel machines. If I remember correctly they said that the machines were really fast, faster than the dual processor powermacs they had been using and the intel box runs only one processor and the first x86 version of osx couldn't of been that optimized. So I think we'll have some really fast machines coming :D

EricNau
Nov 4, 2005, 08:24 PM
Unfortunately thats not true, look at comments from developers using the first intel machines. If I remember correctly they said that the machines were really fast, faster than the dual processor powermacs they had been using and the intel box runs only one processor and the first x86 version of osx couldn't of been that optimized. So I think we'll have some really fast machines coming :D
I don't know, all reports I've seen have pointed towards Apple. (Especially the ones reported by Apple) :p
And I was comparing Macs out right now, to PC's out right now. Not Intel Macs vs Current Macs.

But hopefully you are right about seeing even faster computers coming.

Hattig
Nov 4, 2005, 08:25 PM
To those of you that say the G4 competes with a Centrino chipset... you are sadly mistaken. I have a 12" Powerbook (1 GHz) and an IBM T43p. The IBM smokes the Powerbook so bad it makes me cringe. The only reason I stick with Apple is because of OS X and the fact that they are finally moving away from such a sickly and outdated chipset that is the G4.

I can't wait for the switch. With Intel chips and Apple's OS and design - these are going to be the best laptops ever produced - like the Powerbooks were when they were first released.

Is that down to the processor, or the graphics? Are you comparing a 1GHz G4 to a 1.8GHz Pentium M for example? Have you run benchmarks? I'm pretty certain that in anything floating point related the G4 will thrash a Pentium M - it is notoriously weak at that stuff. However it will thrash a G4 in integer performance I imagine.

Oh, the T43P ships as standard with a 2GHz Dothan processor - 27W TDP and FireGL graphics. I hardly think they're comparable.

gekko513
Nov 4, 2005, 08:26 PM
Unfortunately thats not true, look at comments from developers using the first intel machines. If I remember correctly they said that the machines were really fast, faster than the dual processor powermacs they had been using and the intel box runs only one processor and the first x86 version of osx couldn't of been that optimized. So I think we'll have some really fast machines coming :D
That was just a subjective notion. The benchmarks that have been made with the developer box show that it's much slower than a dual 2.0GHz G5.

Now let me see if I can find that link.

dudemac
Nov 4, 2005, 08:26 PM
You BELIEVE?! A 3 year old PC beats any G4. The G4 was in the race only against the Penthium 3.

??? really that's seems a little odd to me as it stands right now a 3yr old PC would be in the Semptron 3000 (2.ghz) range and my sister has one of these systems with the same amount of RAM as my 1ghz powerbook 768MB And my Powerbook may not boot as fast (but even the Dual 2.7 doesn't boot as fast as most windows machines) but lets try encoding MPEG-4 with quicktime or ripping a CD to MP3 or doing something in photoshop.... and in all cases the powerbook is either just as good or beats the pants off the PC (in this case CD ripping is twice as fast on the powerbook). The G4 maybe old but it doesn't lack power the 1.67ghz G4 is a pretty formidable chip compared to anything but he top of the line chips. I think I would rather see duel core G4's in a laptop over the intel equivalent. But I guess there is no turning back now. Oh well I should be happy with my Quad Power Mac(when it gets here) for sometime to come.

zelet
Nov 4, 2005, 08:27 PM
EricNau and Mad Jew, I respect your opinions and yes, there is more to a computer than a processor. In fact, Apple has dropped the ball with every aspect of a laptop. For the same price my IBM kicks the hell out of my Powerbook. It has a better screen, better video card, faster ram, faster FSB, faster HDD (7200 RPM), better battery life, its more durable, and its the same size.

I'm a Mac fan guys, don't get me wrong, I can just see when Apple has screwed the pooch - and the current mobile line is it. They suck so bad and they are so HORRIBLY over-prices for what is essentially 3 year old hardware.

Lets just all be thankful that Apple is finally getting a chips that it can work its magic with. It'll be like the G5 only for portables.

Edited:
Hattig, the specs on mine are last generation. Mine is under 2GHz... I believe its a ~1.7GHz chip.

mad jew
Nov 4, 2005, 08:29 PM
Computers are far too complex to be able to make blanket statements about what is faster than what.

On an objective note, my 800MHz G4 iBook converts music in iTunes at the same speed as my 1.7GHz Pentium 4 - roughly 9x. Converting music is generally a CPU-intesive task although there are obviously many more factors. :)

zelet, you have some good points and I agree with you to an extent although I'm a little more optimistic about the current hardware. Either way, the switch to Intel will result in faster machines IMO. :)

EricNau
Nov 4, 2005, 08:29 PM
EricNau and Mad Jew, I respect your opinions and yes, there is more to a computer than a processor. In fact, Apple has dropped the ball with every aspect of a laptop. For the same price my IBM kicks the hell out of my Powerbook. It has a better screen, better video card, faster ram, faster FSB, faster HDD (7200 RPM), better battery life, its more durable, and its the same size.

I'm a Mac fan guys, don't get me wrong, I can just see when Apple has screwed the pooch - and the current mobile line is it. They suck so bad and they are so HORRIBLY over-prices for what is essentially 3 year old hardware.

Lets just all be thankful that Apple is finally getting a chips that it can work its magic with. It'll be like the G5 only for portables.
If you were talking purely about iBook & Powerbooks, you would be correct about Apple dropping the ball, as for the iMacs & Powermacs, they are faster than any PC I have ever used.

Ramsos
Nov 4, 2005, 08:29 PM
We can also elimnate firewire ports and just have two or three USB2 ports. That is it; just three USB2 and a video out port. That is all we need.

I could not disagree more with that, Firewire is of major importance on a powerbook to a person like myself, USB2 is fine for my ipod but speaking as a video editor Firewire is a must. I really love the fact that my current Powerbook and 2 firewire ports, I use one for my deck and 1 for my firewire hard drive. I realize that there is really only one firewire bus in the powerbook but this set up works great for me. FIREWIRE MUST STAY.

wilburpan
Nov 4, 2005, 08:32 PM
Think I might like the rumored 13" widescreen iBook though if they equip it with an HD resolution screen ...
I think very FEW people would like 1920x1080+ on a 13" screen, if they actually sat down and tried to use such a thing. :D Talk about fine print!

Actually, all you need for HD resolution is a display that is capable of 720 lines of horizontal resolution. Most 42" plasma HDTVs have a resolution of 1024x720, for example.

The currently available Sony VAIO TX-series notebooks have an 11.1" screen with a resolution of 1366x768, which is the same as your average 50" plasma screen.

Still, a 16:9 screen would be very nice to have on a Powerbook that is less than 15".

EricNau
Nov 4, 2005, 08:32 PM
I could not disagree more with that, Firewire is of major importance on a powerbook to a person like myself, USB2 is fine for my ipod but speaking as a video editor Firewire is a must. I really love the fact that my current Powerbook and 2 firewire ports, I use one for my deck and 1 for my firewire hard drive. I realize that there is really only one firewire bus in the powerbook but this set up works great for me. FIREWIRE MUST STAY.
IT BETTER STAY! Firewire is so much better/faster than USB it really isn't funny.
Besides, Apple may get a lot of people buying these Intel Powerbooks that have never owned a Mac before - This is a good way to re-introduce Firewire.

Cinch
Nov 4, 2005, 08:33 PM
I could not disagree more with that, Firewire is of major importance on a powerbook to a person like myself, USB2 is fine for my ipod but speaking as a video editor Firewire is a must. I really love the fact that my current Powerbook and 2 firewire ports, I use one for my deck and 1 for my firewire hard drive. I realize that there is really only one firewire bus in the powerbook but this set up works great for me. FIREWIRE MUST STAY.

:D wow! okay!

how about a truly portable 12" or 13" laptop
and a desktop-laptop computer 15" and/or 17" existing side-by-side

I think this is a good compromise.

Cinch

Try to observe what you do on your next business trip/meeting and you'll know what I mean.

Cinch

pionata
Nov 4, 2005, 08:44 PM
Computers are far too complex to be able to make blanket statements about what is faster than what.

On an objective note, my 800MHz G4 iBook converts music in iTunes at the same speed as my 1.7GHz Pentium 4 - roughly 9x. Converting music is generally a CPU-intesive task although there are obviously many more factors. :)

zelet, you have some good points and I agree with you to an extent although I'm a little more optimistic about the current hardware. Either way, the switch to Intel will result in faster machines IMO. :)

I have the same Ibook as you (800mhz 640 megs of ram) and it loads quake3, nwn and ghost recon maps faster than my 1.6 fully optimized Pentium4 with 1256megs of ram... of course then the p4 was having like 3 times the frame rate of the ibook, but still. Processor is not the only factor for a computer speed, there must be something else at work there... (And Im guessing lot of different things)

ksz
Nov 4, 2005, 08:47 PM
A 13" model, 20-25% thinner form factor, use of dual-core chips on new PowerBooks, presumably improved battery life, ..., all of this arriving in the first half of 2006. The spawning salmon analogy has a Literary Pulitzer written all over it BUT what about software?

Rosetta really may not be all that it's being cracked up to be. I expect to be disappointed with Rosetta's performance. Even .NET performance on Windows, despite claims of run-time compilation specifically tuned to the user's processor, performs more slugglishly than unmanaged C/C++.

Hopefully developers will be just as aggressive as Apple and will announce Universal Binaries with a vengeance come 2006.

EricNau
Nov 4, 2005, 08:48 PM
Processor is not the only factor for a computer speed, there must be something else at work there... (And Im guessing lot of different things)
To name a few...

RAM
Front Side Bus
Cache
HDD speed

Sol
Nov 4, 2005, 08:54 PM
I am excited to hear about widescreen iBooks. I just hope Apple does not do something silly like take out FireWire.

The trouble with this rumour concerns the PowerBook. I can't see Apple releasing a, x86 15" PowerBook and then waiting for a few months to release a 17" version. Would anyone buy a G4 17" while another x86 Powerbook is available?

As for the thinner design, it sounds like form has taken over function at Apple. The 5G iPod was also made thinner and that resulted in loss of FireWire. What will go in the next PowerBooks? The back-lit keyboards maybe?

MacAficionado
Nov 4, 2005, 08:57 PM
Originally posted by Mad Jew:

This is just the start of what will be a beautiful period in Apple's history.

Yeah, this is going to ROCK!!!

kyeblue
Nov 4, 2005, 08:58 PM
Are Intel dual-core systems already available?

rye9
Nov 4, 2005, 09:01 PM
I personally find this switch to be VERY confusing. I am going to be buying an iBook sometime in January most likely. But with the switch to Intel very soon after, its killing me to wonder if I should buy the PPC 12 in iBook or get the new Intel ones. I fear they will not be that perfect though bc they are rev.A, but u never know, they could be awesome. Also, Intel iBooks cant be that much better than current iBooks bc its not like the current ones are so slow, they sell very well. Does any1 have any opinions whether or not I should buy the last PPC iBook or an Intel one?

EricNau
Nov 4, 2005, 09:03 PM
Are Intel dual-core systems already available?
Yes, they are the Pentium D (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentium_D).
Sony has some on their Vaio Desktops (http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_BrowseCatalog-Start?CategoryName=cpu_rcseriesdesktops&Dept=computers).

ksz
Nov 4, 2005, 09:04 PM
Are Intel dual-core systems already available?
Not sure what you mean. Intel's dual-core desktop processors (Pentium D) have been available in volume for several months. Intel's dual-core mobile processors (Yonah, Merom, etc.) are not shipping in any laptop yet. Yonah has been sampling for some time and production is ramping up. Merom will follow Yonah near the end of 2006.

EricNau
Nov 4, 2005, 09:06 PM
Not sure what you mean. Intel's dual-core desktop processors (Pentium D) have been available in volume for several months. Intel's dual-core mobile processors (Yonah, Merom, etc.) are not shipping in any laptop yet. Yonah has been sampling for some time and production is ramping up. Merom will follow Yonah near the end of 2006.
Are they going to stick with the names Yonah & Merom? Or will they be changed?

Multimedia
Nov 4, 2005, 09:11 PM
Man that sounds sweet... but there's no way I'll be buying the Rev. A version of a notebook with that many changes. :D

It will be tempting though!With the AppleCare that we gotta buy with any portable, we'll be covered for any surprises anyway. Dual core will seriously rock. That and a 17" 1650 x 1050 will be a killer REAL PowerBook.

ksz
Nov 4, 2005, 09:14 PM
Are they going to stick with the names Yonah & Merom? Or will they be changed?
These are internal project names that are replaced once the Marketing Department figures out a product naming convention. Very often, though, project names continue to be used long after the product has been released.

EGT
Nov 4, 2005, 09:18 PM
Steve Jobs likes kicking ass. Intel powerbooks ... oh yeah.

EricNau
Nov 4, 2005, 09:20 PM
These are internal project names that are replaced once the Marketing Department figures out a product naming convention. Very often, though, project names continue to be used long after the product has been released.
Thanks, I suspected that, but I wasn't sure. It just didn't seem like Intel to use names like that - Maybe they'll get really clever this time and call them the Pentium 5 & 6! :eek:
Intel's naming structure has always bothered me.

fr3nch13
Nov 4, 2005, 09:23 PM
Anyone else hoping for a tablet? This would be the perfect time to unveil a whole new product for Apple. There already doing complete redesigns on all of there systems. Why not throw in a new product?

SummerBreeze
Nov 4, 2005, 09:25 PM
All the rumors about no more 12" PowerBooks make me so happy that I bought mine before the intel switch. I'd definitely rather have 12" instead of 13".

Stella
Nov 4, 2005, 09:35 PM
Todays PowerBooks are WEAK.

Apple need something to boost their laptops.. so what if the Pro software isn't ready... iBooks and especially PowerBooks needs catching up with the competition - reality - they are SLOW. Only fan boys and the clueless would deny this.

I hope this rumour is true...

StealthRider
Nov 4, 2005, 09:35 PM
You BELIEVE?! A 3 year old PC beats any G4. The G4 was in the race only against the Penthium 3.

Um, the Pentium M is basically a souped-up Pentium III.

SuperSnake2012
Nov 4, 2005, 09:35 PM
I better start saving up :D

Stella
Nov 4, 2005, 09:39 PM
Um, the Pentium M is basically a souped-up Pentium III.

...AND the P3s where more efficient than P4s.

I dont know what you are trying to say.

rye9
Nov 4, 2005, 09:45 PM
Will there be any disadvantages to the new Intel laptops or any great benefits? The only thing im aware of is that Intel chips are faster and use less power.

Multimedia
Nov 4, 2005, 09:45 PM
I am excited to hear about widescreen iBooks. I just hope Apple does not do something silly like take out FireWire.

The trouble with this rumour concerns the PowerBook. I can't see Apple releasing a, x86 15" PowerBook and then waiting for a few months to release a 17" version. Would anyone buy a G4 17" while another x86 Powerbook is available?

As for the thinner design, it sounds like form has taken over function at Apple. The 5G iPod was also made thinner and that resulted in loss of FireWire. What will go in the next PowerBooks? The back-lit keyboards maybe?No way is Apple going to take out FW. I will wait for the 17" 1650x1050 screen version for sure. If there's a delay, it will probably be for the sake of a faster dual core processor than the 15" model. I may even wait for Leopard and iLife '07 next January '07. (NOT) :p

Multimedia
Nov 4, 2005, 09:49 PM
Will there be any disadvantages to the new Intel laptops or any great benefits? The only thing im aware of is that Intel chips are faster and use less power.64-bit Dual Core running way faster. IOW Like a mobile G5.

Not 64-bit from the get go?

rye9
Nov 4, 2005, 09:51 PM
64-bit Dual Core running way faster. IOW Like a moobile G5.

This wont be until the end of 2006 though. Also, does anyone reccommend buying an Intel iBook by July 2006 or should I get a PPC one now? Like, is it smart to buy a rev. A or rev. B intel ibook?

Frisco
Nov 4, 2005, 09:51 PM
Forever Mac, whether or not this is true!

Apple is like a bad soap opera. You know you shouldn't watch, but you just can't resist!

Love you SJ!

generik
Nov 4, 2005, 10:24 PM
No... I refuse to believe it!

Powerbook G5 next tuesday!! Powerbook G5 next tuesday!!!

dontmatter
Nov 4, 2005, 10:42 PM
*crosses fingers* PLEASE!!!

wow, would be awesome. Only, if it's not true, people will be angry now, even if mid 2006 is made.

25%-30% thinner PB?

AWESOME.

anthonys
Nov 4, 2005, 10:43 PM
Todays PowerBooks are WEAK.

Apple need something to boost their laptops.. so what if the Pro software isn't ready... iBooks and especially PowerBooks needs catching up with the competition - reality - they are SLOW. Only fan boys and the clueless would deny this.

I hope this rumour is true...

I agree, it makes sense the Powerbooks will be upgraded first, especially considering the poor atempt with the latest update re:build quality and specs..
:rolleyes:

DaveClarkOne
Nov 4, 2005, 10:50 PM
Poor attempt? Geez, what are you comparing it with in the PC world? A Dell? Puhleeze. Speed is not the end all, be all. Never was. To say that it is denigrates all the other attributes of the Mac platform.


I agree, it makes sense the Powerbooks will be upgraded first, especially considering the poor atempt with the latest update re:build quality and specs..
:rolleyes:

anthonys
Nov 4, 2005, 11:01 PM
Poor attempt? Geez, what are you comparing it with in the PC world? A Dell? Puhleeze. Speed is not the end all, be all. Never was. To say that it is denigrates all the other attributes of the Mac platform.

Compared to the last Powerbook..

runninmac
Nov 4, 2005, 11:01 PM
*crosses fingers* PLEASE!!!

wow, would be awesome. Only, if it's not true, people will be angry now, even if mid 2006 is made.

25%-30% thinner PB?

AWESOME.

Not like its gonna matter but striaght from appleinsider but will be about 20- to 25-percent thinner than today's model.

cepler
Nov 4, 2005, 11:03 PM
Maybe they'll get really clever this time and call them the Pentium 5 & 6! :eek:
Intel's naming structure has always bothered me.

Ya, G3, G4, G5, so much better!

iEdd
Nov 4, 2005, 11:04 PM
I hope this rumour is true, apart from the dropping of the 12" powerbook. I really hope apple don't get rid of it, especially when it's what I'm saving for.

Meyvn
Nov 4, 2005, 11:15 PM
I'm getting this last PPC revision this December, and riding it through at least a couple years before jumping onto Intel. In the meantime, my Apple stock will be going on up while I wait. =D Bring 'em on!

notdenizen
Nov 4, 2005, 11:19 PM
I wouldn't bother with a Rev A; let someone else be the guinea pig.

Guinea pig reporting for duty, sir!

I'll be hopping on the Intel bandwagon the day they roll out a mac that can run wine.

Meyvn
Nov 4, 2005, 11:20 PM
I hope this rumour is true, apart from the dropping of the 12" powerbook. I really hope apple don't get rid of it, especially when it's what I'm saving for.

Well, look at it this way: if it's ALL true, a 13" widescreen iBook will be replacing the 12" PB. This new iBook will be a dual core Intel, rather than the 12" G4 model you can buy now. It will also be significantly cheaper, as it will be an iBook, and not a PowerBook. Nothing to worry about, really, unless you're THAT attached to one inch and a silver color (which I personally think is much less attractive and more cliched than the white).

On another note, I'm getting this last PPC revision this December, and riding it through at least a couple years before jumping onto Intel. In the meantime, my Apple stock will be going on up while I wait. =D Bring 'em on!

Koodauw
Nov 4, 2005, 11:25 PM
This is really good news. I think there are a lot of people who have been wait to buy the next version of the PB, and have been for quiet some time. The soon this comes, the better.

Dual-core Pentium-M sounds really cool. I know ill be in line as soon as I can.

I do hope they keep the 12'' around though, I have owned 2 of them and love them. I think it has been to good of a seller Apple to let this product go.

lordmac
Nov 4, 2005, 11:27 PM
I don't think so for three reasons:

Too expensive
not realiable enough
too limiting in size



I have been thinking about these dilemmas with using flash. Now i don't know if this is even remotely feasible, but could they say put a couple of those nand flash modules in there for 4 gigs of space and just have the os and start up files installed on them and then also have a Hard-drive for everything else. Giving u the really fast boot times but also making it not super expensive and still have a sizable amount of space for file storage. I can't imagine a couple of flash modules would take up much space and certainly with this samsung deal, apple isn't paying to much for them. Any-thoughts on this idea, i for one think it would be pretty cool and I don't think to hard to do.

generik
Nov 4, 2005, 11:28 PM
Poor attempt? Geez, what are you comparing it with in the PC world? A Dell? Puhleeze. Speed is not the end all, be all. Never was. To say that it is denigrates all the other attributes of the Mac platform.

Yeaah.. at least a Dell has a better display, one that doesn't display pinstripes over everything :rolleyes:

And what's with the flickering screens some users got?

"Oh, they are an artistic representation of fireworks.. life.. energy!" - Steve (didn't really say it)

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Ramsos
Nov 4, 2005, 11:43 PM
How about making a practical and beautiful laptop out of the 12" or 13" models. I would like one with 6+ hours of real life use, and I think it is totally possible w/ today's technology. We can eliminate the CD/DVD drive which will free up lots of space for a larger battery. Lets also eliminate the modem port, I mean who uses this anymore. While we are at it, eliminate the ethernet port. There are so many hotspots now, I can't imagine needing one. We can also elimnate firewire ports and just have two or three USB2 ports. That is it; just three USB2 and a video out port. That is all we need.

I could not disagree more with that, Firewire is of major importance on a powerbook to a person like myself, USB2 is fine for my ipod but speaking as a video editor Firewire is a must. I really love the fact that my current Powerbook and 2 firewire ports, I use one for my deck and 1 for my firewire hard drive. I realize that there is really only one firewire bus in the powerbook but this set up works great for me. FIREWIRE MUST STAY.

Try to observe what you do on your next business trip/meeting and you'll know what I mean.

Cinch

Actaully you just made another point for me about keeping firewire. I use my Powerbook for editing on the road too. I found my self using final cut pro on the airplane on the way back from Miami in July. I would not give up firewire for more battery life. I'm all for more battery life too though. What ever happened to the Fuel Cell rumors.;)

Super Dave
Nov 4, 2005, 11:43 PM
I really hope Rosetta is faster than it is now. But can anyone who follows chipsets answer me this:

Will April/May '06 Intel chips be faster than the current PowerPC PowerBooks enough that even 60% of their speed (the approximate emulation speed of Rosetta if I recall correctly) will be faster than the PowerBook? Maybe this is an impossible question.

I'm hoping that Apple has a "secret Rosetta" that's really much faster and they're just not showing it to the developer community so they won't be lazy in porting to Intel architecture.

David :cool:

PS - Anyone notice the "Architecture" entry by apps in column view in the 10.4.3 Finder. Intel's coming. And fast.

Warbrain
Nov 5, 2005, 12:18 AM
I really hope Rosetta is faster than it is now. But can anyone who follows chipsets answer me this:

Will April/May '06 Intel chips be faster than the current PowerPC PowerBooks enough that even 60% of their speed (the approximate emulation speed of Rosetta if I recall correctly) will be faster than the PowerBook? Maybe this is an impossible question.

I'm hoping that Apple has a "secret Rosetta" that's really much faster and they're just not showing it to the developer community so they won't be lazy in porting to Intel architecture.

David :cool:

PS - Anyone notice the "Architecture" entry by apps in column view in the 10.4.3 Finder. Intel's coming. And fast.

I see the Architecture section in the info window, but not in column view. Good find, nevertheless. I can't wait to see how hot the Intel Macs will look.

But I'll always love my PPC.

balamw
Nov 5, 2005, 12:34 AM
Actually, all you need for HD resolution is a display that is capable of 720 lines of horizontal resolution.
Exactly what I meant 720p not 1080i. 1280x720 minimum.

B

aswitcher
Nov 5, 2005, 12:37 AM
Well good to see Apple will be putting the PBs back on the map with some new tricks as well as a decent processor.

I wonder if the rumoured Front Row remote comes as a keyring ;)

I seriously wonder if Apple adopt HDMI over DVI because of its smaller (not an engineer here ok) apparent size and ability to use adaptors for DVI...

What about new wireless standards as well. Apple always lead the way with that stuff, I wonder if they will adopt UWB or 802.11n or was that 802.16 :o

Peace
Nov 5, 2005, 12:38 AM
I really hope Rosetta is faster than it is now. But can anyone who follows chipsets answer me this:

Will April/May '06 Intel chips be faster than the current PowerPC PowerBooks enough that even 60% of their speed (the approximate emulation speed of Rosetta if I recall correctly) will be faster than the PowerBook? Maybe this is an impossible question.

I'm hoping that Apple has a "secret Rosetta" that's really much faster and they're just not showing it to the developer community so they won't be lazy in porting to Intel architecture.

David :cool:

PS - Anyone notice the "Architecture" entry by apps in column view in the 10.4.3 Finder. Intel's coming. And fast.

I've heard folks saying some PPC apps run faster through Rosetta on the OSX86 platform than the app runs native on the PPC chip.
Perhaps porting has been a much smoother transition than earlier anticipated.

snoboardguy21
Nov 5, 2005, 12:57 AM
Just curious, for all you guys who are so adamant about how ancient the PPC G4 is. I fully understand and anticipate the Intel switch, but I just wonder what apps you guys are running that makes you think the current G4 is so old and wasted. I run Photoshop pretty extensively with very high res images on my 1.33GHz iBook with its measly 133MHz bus, 32MB of video RAM, and 768MB of RAM. Mind you this is also on a 4200 rpm hdd. Even the most ehaustive and intricate filters only take about 10 seconds for a HUGE image. From using my classmates Powerbooks, they're quite a bit faster. Now let's take the recent rev. PBs. A 1.67GHz processor with, for the sake of example, 1GB of RAM and the new 7200 rpm hdd with 128MB video RAM and the slightly faster 167MHz bus. That's quite the difference even from my iBook. Even if these new Intel machines are the improvement we're all hoping for, I'd hardly call the PPC a bad processor that wasn't any good after 2001.
Please don't get me wrong, I cannot wait for a new Powerbook that outperforms all the Windoze machines on paper. I just hope they don't use that silly camera/latch thing. I absolutely love the look of the current Mac line, and I hope they don't change things too much just for some new processors. Heck, if they make the thing any thinner, won't it snap in half??

EricNau
Nov 5, 2005, 01:11 AM
I have been thinking about these dilemmas with using flash. Now i don't know if this is even remotely feasible, but could they say put a couple of those nand flash modules in there for 4 gigs of space and just have the os and start up files installed on them and then also have a Hard-drive for everything else. Giving u the really fast boot times but also making it not super expensive and still have a sizable amount of space for file storage. I can't imagine a couple of flash modules would take up much space and certainly with this samsung deal, apple isn't paying to much for them. Any-thoughts on this idea, i for one think it would be pretty cool and I don't think to hard to do.
:confused: I'm not sure I see the point. Faster boot-up times? It isn't worth it, especially since it isn't that slow right now. (Less than a minute, right?)
Flash just isn't reliable enough, they can fail without warning (as anything can, but with flash it is common). If the OS and startup files were on it then you have no computer. :(

Capt Underpants
Nov 5, 2005, 01:16 AM
:confused: I'm not sure I see the point. Faster boot-up times? It isn't worth it, especially since it isn't that slow right now. (Less than a minute, right?)
Flash just isn't reliable enough, they can fail without warning (as anything can, but with flash it is common). If the OS and startup files were on it then you have no computer. :(

I'd love to boot my computer up in 10 seconds. Right now my PB takes 1.5 minutes to boot up, and it is hell.

jeffcorbets
Nov 5, 2005, 01:16 AM
The worst news for me is that iSight would be built-in to the PowerBook display. I would hope that they would have a version without the camera, because having the camera is unacceptable to my workplace, and thus unacceptable to me.

For anyone who uses their PowerBook for technical or engineering work, most places do not allow devices that can take an image on the premises. I could not even have the machine in my car in the parking lot, let alone actually take it into a building - not exactly what you want in a portable computer...

Hopefully they would not make it as hard to acquire a no-camera version as, say, Palm and Sprint do with the Treos.

~Jeff Corbets

wizard
Nov 5, 2005, 01:20 AM
I really hope Rosetta is faster than it is now. But can anyone who follows chipsets answer me this:

Will April/May '06 Intel chips be faster than the current PowerPC PowerBooks enough that even 60% of their speed (the approximate emulation speed of Rosetta if I recall correctly) will be faster than the PowerBook? Maybe this is an impossible question.

I'm cetain that Apple can get emulation ot the point where it will match current PPC hardware. That is the limited emulation that we know about at this time, that is no AltVec. Since the 60% is an estimated average I expect to see some apps do very well.

I suspect though that things will be very good in Intel land. First the Intel project has ben shadowing PPC development so a good portion of the OS is already there. Those part that aren't there should port easily due to the *nix base of OS/X. So from the perspective of Apple supplied software I don't expect to see a lot of emulation at all.

As to third party software, anything that makes use of AltVec will be an issue likely require an upgrade or an alternative application. In effect zero possibility of running the application unless it has fall back routines.

In a sense your question is impossible. First specific applications may not run at all. Second we don't know at the moment what the exact configuraiton will be hardware wise. My gut feeling is that the should see hardware that is extremely fast with integer operations thus making emulation when used very nice. But integer performance is only part of the issue so it depends on apps. A 4X improvement in integer performance though is a real possibility.


I'm hoping that Apple has a "secret Rosetta" that's really much faster and they're just not showing it to the developer community so they won't be lazy in porting to Intel architecture.

Read above. It is my understanding that Rosetta is only a partial solution. Some applicaitons will have to be ported or not offerred for Intel hardware. There is a real possibility that a favored applicaiton will not run at all.


David :cool:

PS - Anyone notice the "Architecture" entry by apps in column view in the 10.4.3 Finder. Intel's coming. And fast.

Yes it is coming. It is unfortunate that PPC never had an agressive manufacutre behind it. It is funny that I've seen no mention of AMD chips, they are probably to constrained to be able to handle a customer like Apple though.

Dave

EricNau
Nov 5, 2005, 01:20 AM
I'd love to boot my computer up in 10 seconds. Right now my PB takes 1.5 minutes to boot up, and it is hell.
That'd be nice, but I doubt Apple would think it was worth the extra money or space. I also don't think it would reduce it to 10 seconds (maybe down from 1.5 min to 45 seconds or something).

Capt Underpants
Nov 5, 2005, 01:20 AM
regarding the speed of Macs...

It depends what "speed" you are talking about, if it is the overall speed of the computer, Macs are much faster. If you are talking about Clock Speed, then Apple has always been slower, but clock speed is nearly useless unless comparing two processors of the same type (ie: P4 1.2 GHz : P4 1.8 GHz). (aka: Megahertz Myth)

Disregarding clock speed, PC laptops with Pentium M chips outperform Apple's G4 laptops.

I don't know what's up on the desktop side of things with this new quad G5, but it seems like the dual core athlons could definitely compete with todays G5's, and probably beat them.

EricNau
Nov 5, 2005, 01:21 AM
The worst news for me is that iSight would be built-in to the PowerBook display. I would hope that they would have a version without the camera, because having the camera is unacceptable to my workplace, and thus unacceptable to me.

For anyone who uses their PowerBook for technical or engineering work, most places do not allow devices that can take an image on the premises. I could not even have the machine in my car in the parking lot, let alone actually take it into a building - not exactly what you want in a portable computer...

Hopefully they would not make it as hard to acquire a no-camera version as, say, Palm and Sprint do with the Treos.

~Jeff Corbets
I had never thought about that, it is a very god point.
Apple would know about this stuff, I'm sure they have very strict rules also. ;)

Disregarding clock speed, PC laptops with Pentium M chips outperform Apple's G4 laptops.

I don't know what's up on the desktop side of things with this new quad G5, but it seems like the dual core athlons could definitely compete with todays G5's, and probably beat them.
I don't know. I'm thinking it would be pretty hard to beat the Quad though. :p

Capt Underpants
Nov 5, 2005, 01:27 AM
I don't know. I'm thinking it would be pretty hard to beat the Quad though. :p

I agree that the quad is on another level, but it seems that for every other Apple processor, the PC world has a better alternative.

I was trying to find the information regarding the NAND flash in powerbooks, but I couldn't. It's 1:30 in the morning, though.

aafuss1
Nov 5, 2005, 01:32 AM
I guess if Apple moves to the Pentium M, would the PB's
AE/BT 2.0 modules need a redesign or use a standard 2915ABG/3945BG and rebrand that asAirport Extreme. Intel seems to be pushing WiMax-which Apple should equally support, if they want to (Intel has a WiMax IC already), and use nVIDA graphics (a lot like with the new G5's- an all nVIDA GPU lineup), and SATA . 802.11 may have to wait.

I'm cetain that Apple can get emulation ot the point where it will match current PPC hardware. That is the limited emulation that we know about at this time, that is no AltVec. Since the 60% is an estimated average I expect to see some apps do very well.

I suspect though that things will be very good in Intel land. First the Intel project has ben shadowing PPC development so a good portion of the OS is already there. Those part that aren't there should port easily due to the *nix base of OS/X. So from the perspective of Apple supplied software I don't expect to see a lot of emulation at all.

As to third party software, anything that makes use of AltVec will be an issue likely require an upgrade or an alternative application. In effect zero possibility of running the application unless it has fall back routines.

In a sense your question is impossible. First specific applications may not run at all. Second we don't know at the moment what the exact configuraiton will be hardware wise. My gut feeling is that the should see hardware that is extremely fast with integer operations thus making emulation when used very nice. But integer performance is only part of the issue so it depends on apps. A 4X improvement in integer performance though is a real possibility.

Read above. It is my understanding that Rosetta is only a partial solution. Some applicaitons will have to be ported or not offerred for Intel hardware. There is a real possibility that a favored applicaiton will not run at all.


Yes it is coming. It is unfortunate that PPC never had an agressive manufacutre behind it. It is funny that I've seen no mention of AMD chips, they are probably to constrained to be able to handle a customer like Apple though.

Dave

I'm guessing:
-Logic-Version 8 very soon (late January to early March release date), Intel and DC ready version in say a paid v 8.1 upgrade
Final Cut Studio-V 2.0 at NAB, Intel ready maybe

dylomel
Nov 5, 2005, 01:40 AM
i want an isight pb! !!

wizard
Nov 5, 2005, 01:44 AM
Just curious, for all you guys who are so adamant about how ancient the PPC G4 is.

Because it is. That and the replacements for the current G4 are not yet out in numbers. Plus the high integration dual core device doesn't evne have a feature set usefull to a general purpose computer maker.


I fully understand and anticipate the Intel switch, but I just wonder what apps you guys are running that makes you think the current G4 is so old and wasted. I run Photoshop pretty extensively with very high res images on my 1.33GHz iBook with its measly 133MHz bus, 32MB of video RAM, and 768MB of RAM. Mind you this is also on a 4200 rpm hdd. Even the most ehaustive and intricate filters only take about 10 seconds for a HUGE image.

So you find that metric usefull, doesn't mean much to the market at large. With the Intel hardware Apple has the chance to offer more balanced performance. Now there is the very real possibility that soem of the AltVec optimised filters will not translate well to Intel hardware. That might be a problem for your specific usage, but it is likely that your older machine will be outperformed on the new hardware.

Mind you we really don't know how well Yonah has been enhanced with respect to vector operations. We can only hope that Intel has moved the hardware forward with respect ot vector operations. In any event it is a given that some of those other hadware features you mentioned will be greatly eclipsed by the new intel hardware.


From using my classmates Powerbooks, they're quite a bit faster. Now let's take the recent rev. PBs. A 1.67GHz processor with, for the sake of example, 1GB of RAM and the new 7200 rpm hdd with 128MB video RAM and the slightly faster 167MHz bus. That's quite the difference even from my iBook. Even if these new Intel machines are the improvement we're all hoping for, I'd hardly call the PPC a bad processor that wasn't any good after 2001.

You really are missing the boat as far as what I've gotten out of this thread. It is not that the processor isn't any good it is simply that it hasn't gone anywhere after three years. In case your wondering NO I don't think a 300MHz giain means anything at all over that time frame.

What we will gain is a processor that has dramatically better integer performance. That combined with improved vecotr operaitons and the implimentation of the latest technology means that Apple can offer hardware that is appealling to a broad range of cusotmers. Frankly trotting out filter performnace figures is just a way to mask all the weak points that the present portable have. There is more to PC usage than just filter performance!

Please don't get me wrong, I cannot wait for a new Powerbook that outperforms all the Windoze machines on paper.

Unfortunately that is not likely to ever happen with Apple now using Intel hardware. At best a better OS will (might) offer a little more performnace but that is about it.


I just hope they don't use that silly camera/latch thing. I absolutely love the look of the current Mac line, and I hope they don't change things too much just for some new processors. Heck, if they make the thing any thinner, won't it snap in half??:eek:

Wel innovation requires change. No way to get around that.

On the other hand I'm with many on this board with respect to the built in camera. That is not good at all for the work place where often photographic hardware of any type is forbidden. That would mean never taking the machine into work - maybe not a bad idea after all ;)

Durability is important ot me also. What I'd really like to see is Apple offering a single machine hardened like Panasonics ToughBook line. That would make for a nice machine to cart around.

Dave

aafuss1
Nov 5, 2005, 01:46 AM
The eMac, even it's education-only now could still see minor/major revisions in future , even a Intel-based and PCI-E model, to please educators next year-they may be quitely announced

EricNau
Nov 5, 2005, 01:46 AM
The worst news for me is that iSight would be built-in to the PowerBook display. I would hope that they would have a version without the camera, because having the camera is unacceptable to my workplace, and thus unacceptable to me.

For anyone who uses their PowerBook for technical or engineering work, most places do not allow devices that can take an image on the premises. I could not even have the machine in my car in the parking lot, let alone actually take it into a building - not exactly what you want in a portable computer...

Hopefully they would not make it as hard to acquire a no-camera version as, say, Palm and Sprint do with the Treos.

~Jeff Corbets
Maybe it could be a BTO option and like wit car companies if you don't get it, they just leave it out (and fill it in with a plastic plug).

wizard
Nov 5, 2005, 01:57 AM
Yeah one thing that maybe I didn't point out to well, is that if people are using specific software packages that use AltVec, that they need to undestand where their vendor is with the switch over. I could see some packages taking a very long road porting wise.

The issue is that engineers may have trouble eeking out the smae sort of vector peroformance that many apps currently enjoy. This of course is dependant on how well the exact Intel chip Apple uses handles vector operations. Since I don't worry to much about those sorts of apps it doesn't mean much to me.

By the way there has been much talk aobut Yonah in the iBook. Is it to crazy to think that maybe Apple will go with Dothan here. Yeah the chip is a bit old, but it is a proven piece of hardware. It is probably a matter of time frames and availability.

Dave


I'm guessing:
-Logic-Version 8 very soon (late January to early March release date), Intel and DC ready version in say a paid v 8.1 upgrade
Final Cut Studio-V 2.0 at NAB, Intel ready maybe

SiliconAddict
Nov 5, 2005, 02:08 AM
*Drools uncontrollably*

sethypoo
Nov 5, 2005, 02:09 AM
Cool!

Wow, I need to start saving. :)

SiliconAddict
Nov 5, 2005, 02:11 AM
2006 seems like its gonna be a long rumor season!:D

With the Powerbooks going before iBooks I belive that becuase from many of the tests the Pentium M arictecture kills the G4s. (or at least I pretty sure correct me if im wrong)

You're wrong.....It nukes the G4 from orbit, grounds up the ashes, mixes it into a fine red wine, and toasts to its decimation. :eek:


Sorry just got done with a round of Civ IV....kicked the crap out of the Germans..still kinda in a come get some mood. :D

Cool!

Wow, I need to start saving. :)


Some of us have been for 3 years. Hell I'm going to be able to buy the top of the line PowerBook outright with 2GB of RAM...probably have enough left over for aperture. :D

p0intblank
Nov 5, 2005, 02:26 AM
What an exciting time to be a Mac user! :D The new PowerBooks sound sweet, especially with an iSight built-in. It'd be the perfect portable system. Not having to bring your iSight on the go separately would be a very nice feature to have. I would definitely make use of it. As for the 12-inch PowerBook... meh, not a huge deal. If I was to get a 12" notebook, I'd go for the iBook for its white stylized look. And plus the reason you would get a PowerBook is for a desktop-like machine on the go... and with great power comes a nice large display. Working with apps like Photoshop in 1024x768 doesn't sound like fun. I have the 17-inch model and love it.

As for the iBooks being redesigned, I really hope Apple keeps the all-white look. I am all for design change to see what Apple can do, but I really do hope they don't move away from the all-white look. I don't know about you, but I think the iBook is a wonderful looking machine. and doesn't need to be changed too much. It's a great portable computer that stands out from the crowd. Heck, I want an iBook 12-inch sometimes just to have around. My 17-inch PB isn't really that portable... but it works. I mainly work on my desk anyway.

Wow, I really went off topic with that. :p Oh well, most of it was somewhat related.

JRM PowerPod
Nov 5, 2005, 02:34 AM
So the PowerBooks look set for MacWorld hey,

uumm, let me think

That would explain the crappy last update.
I reckon announce at MWSF to be shipped by end of Jan early Feb

13" 15" 17"

13" 2.26GHZ 1GBDDR2 80GB Superdrive 128mb X600
15" 2.4GHZ 1GBDDR2 100GB Superdrive 128mb x600 w/256 option
17" 2.4GHZ 1GBDDR2 120GB Superdrive 256mb

-All w/ iSight option
-All w/ 6GB flash drive for Mac OSX and fast booting
-Same price points
-All in Al finish with option of Black
-All armed and equipped to make 2006 the new 1984

ALSO NEW WIRELESS RELEASED

In March we will see a special event - new iBooks and Mac mini's

12" and 14" NON WIDESCREEEN

12" 1.73GHZ 512mb DDR2 40GB Superdrive 64mb 6200
14" 1.86GHZ 512mb DDR2 80GB Superdrive 64mb 6200

-All with iSight as an option
-Same price points
-In white or Black

Mac mini

1.73GHZ 512mb DDR2 40GB Combo 64mb 6200 $449
1.86GHZ 512mb DDR2 80GB Superdrive 64mb 6200 $599
1.86GHZ 512mb DDR2 160GB Superdrive TV Tuner 64mb 6600 $799

The WWDC will arrive:
Nothing major hardware side
- the world will be engulfed in PowerBook fever
maybe slight updates -
new Final Cut
Adobe will release new Series made for intel

Paris Expo

-Intel iMac's

Hey i can dream

w_parietti22
Nov 5, 2005, 02:53 AM
I can see it now :p :
http://img388.imageshack.us/img388/9234/powerbookwisightcopy0zr.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
lol.

Marvy
Nov 5, 2005, 03:38 AM
I don't believe the PowerBook iSight thing? I mean, do pros really need a built-in camera? For what? To chat with their mothers? That seems more like a consumer option to me. Especially when regarding Apple's PhotoBooth software, which I doubt would excite a single pro user :) .

50548
Nov 5, 2005, 03:40 AM
To those of you that say the G4 competes with a Centrino chipset... you are sadly mistaken. I have a 12" Powerbook (1 GHz) and an IBM T43p. The IBM smokes the Powerbook so bad it makes me cringe. The only reason I stick with Apple is because of OS X and the fact that they are finally moving away from such a sickly and outdated chipset that is the G4.

I can't wait for the switch. With Intel chips and Apple's OS and design - these are going to be the best laptops ever produced - like the Powerbooks were when they were first released.

Smokes in what? Gaming? I am talking about real-life performance, and the software overhead in PCs just kills any (small) advantage of their processors...besides, multitasking/virtual memory in Windows is CRAP, to say the least...I can do a thousand things on my Mac without feeling any HD activity...try that on a "powerful" Centrino or P4 PC.

SiliconAddict
Nov 5, 2005, 03:57 AM
Smokes in what? Gaming? I am talking about real-life performance, and the software overhead in PCs just kills any (small) advantage of their processors...besides, multitasking/virtual memory in Windows is CRAP, to say the least...I can do a thousand things on my Mac without feeling any HD activity...try that on a "powerful" Centrino or P4 PC.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. That's rich. Hold onto your fantasies for a few more months. That's about all you have left....months and fantasies. Fist off there is no Centrino processor which you are suggesting in your post which goes to show how much you know. Secondly Windows XP handles multitasking perfectly fine. Just as OS X does as long as you have a fair amount of RAM. I leave my desktop PC open for months on end with its apps open. No problems. But we aren't talking about software. We are talking HARDWARE here and the simple fact is the G4 should have gone out the window when the G5 PowerMacs came on the scene. Its 2003 hardware that has been stretched so thin that its pathetic.

rashdown_online
Nov 5, 2005, 04:12 AM
i've always wished it were possible to hide a camera, somehow, someway, in the center of the screen, invisibly. that way you can make eye contact with whomever you're chatting with, and look at them at the same time.

if anyone could do it, or would do it first, it'd be apple.

I seem to recall that a few years back some PhD students at Cambridge were developing Iris tracking techniques.

May be the screen of the RevA is one BIG Iris tracking system / iSight combined???

OK, Apple are good, but not that good (yet! - Challenge Ive :p ) - I hope this psychology works! If it does, finger print recognition please too. Oh, and also a birthday reminder tool that actually works. iCal - OK, but you can turn it off! I'm fed up of getting shouted at by my mum for forgetting family birthdays! Maybe a H/W link to iCal that sends out a shock through the case, or fo persistant offenders, an Intel Inside logo appears on the Powerbook until you acknowledge the birthday!

Kelmon
Nov 5, 2005, 04:31 AM
Some of us have been for 3 years. Hell I'm going to be able to buy the top of the line PowerBook outright with 2GB of RAM...probably have enough left over for aperture. :D

Given this information (reliable or not) I'm glad that my wife put her foot down about not buying another computer until the end of next year. Yeah, that news hurt at the time but I'm now hoping that we'll see revision B PowerBooks late next year/early 2007, ideally with the Merom processor. The saving for a 17" version is going well and I might even have enough to get one of those iPod-thingies since I seem to be banned from them now that they are all USB 2.0. I'm also not planning on updating any major software next year so that I can update it once the Universal Binary versions appear. Overall, the timing of this is looking pretty reasonable but I still hate that I have to wait at least another 12-months.

BornAgainMac
Nov 5, 2005, 04:37 AM
Am I the only one who got mistakingly excited that the cameras are going to be somehow inside the display so that you could have eye contact with the person you are chatting with? I find that to be the largest flaw with video chatting... it never seems like you are talking to that person because he/she is always looking somewhere else.

Aw well, maybe in another 10 years... bleh.
irmongoose

A workaround is to get farther back from the camera. It seems to fix that problem.

dahacouk
Nov 5, 2005, 04:39 AM
I think very FEW people would like 1920x1080+ on a 13" screen, if they actually sat down and tried to use such a thing. :D Talk about fine print!

If the OS you are running is resolution independent then it makes no odds what the DPI of the screen is. It's only because OS X has so far been resolution dependent that Apple have been unable to increase the DPI of their screens. Hopefully this issue will be addressed with 10.5 - if not sooner.

Cheers Daniel

dahacouk
Nov 5, 2005, 04:41 AM
I vote for a new widescreen PowerBook with the same full size keyboard as the current 12", 15" and 17" models BUT it has a 16:9 or 16:10 screen.

The current 12" display is 9.68" in width. Now at 16:9 the diagonal size of the display would be 11.11" and at 16:10 the diagonal would be 11.42".

Take a look at the specs of Sony VAIO TX1XP and you'll see what I mean:

http://www.trustedreviews.com/artic...6&page=4436

Just beautiful!

Just putting it out there...

Cheers Daniel

Marvy
Nov 5, 2005, 05:10 AM
Video conferencing! Very useful and possible now with WiFi becoming more available in public places and hotels.

Yeah, I realize that, but I always found video conferencing to be something more for the consumer market, to chat with relatives and friends in style. As I'm a student, I really don't know much about the pro-market, but I had always assumed that audio and video chat weren't really common in the professional area, as it is difficult to review what has been said (as opposed to email).

Anyway, I'm waiting for an Intel iBook with iSight, ...hopefully it won't take too long, my iBook G3 500MHz is starting to grow old... :(

manu chao
Nov 5, 2005, 05:32 AM
Unfortunately thats not true, look at comments from developers using the first intel machines. If I remember correctly they said that the machines were really fast, faster than the dual processor powermacs they had been using and the intel box runs only one processor and the first x86 version of osx couldn't of been that optimized. So I think we'll have some really fast machines coming :D

So, then have a look at these benchmarks and tell me who is faster:
http://www.macnews.de/news/71814

hvfsl
Nov 5, 2005, 05:38 AM
2006 seems like its gonna be a long rumor season!:D

With the Powerbooks going before iBooks I belive that becuase from many of the tests the Pentium M arictecture kills the G4s. (or at least I pretty sure correct me if im wrong)
The Pentium is even faster than the AMD Opteron chips (clock for clock). That means that when we run PPC apps on one of the new Intel PowerBooks, they shouldn't run that much slower than on the current PPC Powerbooks.:)

manu chao
Nov 5, 2005, 05:44 AM
I'd love to boot my computer up in 10 seconds. Right now my PB takes 1.5 minutes to boot up, and it is hell.

Who the hell cares about booting time. I boot my my laptop about once a month (whenever a software upgrade requires it).

hvfsl
Nov 5, 2005, 05:49 AM
So the PowerBooks look set for MacWorld hey,
13" 15" 17"

13" 2.26GHZ 1GBDDR2 80GB Superdrive 128mb X600
15" 2.4GHZ 1GBDDR2 100GB Superdrive 128mb x600 w/256 option
17" 2.4GHZ 1GBDDR2 120GB Superdrive 256mb
Hey i can dream

The X600 is basically the same as the graphics in the current PowerBooks, so I expect they will use something better than that. I am expecting something like the mobility X800M or G7600Go (I doubt they will use the G7800Go because that will probably mean they need to make the Powerbook quite a bit thicker).

Although I would really like a graphics chip based off the X1800 series (which can encoder video at 5x realtime) plus they also support hardware H.264 decoding.

tny
Nov 5, 2005, 05:58 AM
How about making a practical and beautiful laptop out of the 12" or 13" models. I would like one with 6+ hours of real life use, and I think it is totally possible w/ today's technology. We can eliminate the CD/DVD drive which will free up lots of space for a larger battery. Lets also eliminate the modem port, I mean who uses this anymore. While we are at it, eliminate the ethernet port. There are so many hotspots now, I can't imagine needing one. We can also elimnate firewire ports and just have two or three USB2 ports. That is it; just three USB2 and a video out port. That is all we need.

I like to use a laptop like a cell phone i.e. I don't want to plug it in during the day. I guess I just hate see Dell's laptop at meetings where the owner says, "oops, I have to plug my laptop in before it runs out of juice." Yeah 10 minute into the meeting:D . This happens all the time. It is very comical!

I don't need the speed to do number crunching simulation. All I need is a snappy OSX that will run Office and Safari well.

Back to you,
Cinch

No internal optical drive means no using it as a portable DVD player, which is (believe it or not) a big seller in the education and home markets, and means that you'd need to connect an external drive to install software (not going to fly with some users) or even use some software (games, mainly). The dock solutions are all awkward.

No FireWire means no video input from FireWire or iLink compatible cameras, which isn't going to fly with video professionals (you'd be surprised how big a market there is for the 17" PB with Final Cut Pro among video professionals).

If you travel enough, you'll find a lot of places without WiFi, even hotels with neither WiFi nor ethernet networking, so yeah, there are folks who travel on business who still need to use a modem. I wouldn't kill the ethernet port, either.

I don't know about Dells, but my iBook gets 4 hours unless I'm playing a DVD - not bad for a 4 year old computer (albeit one with a new battery). I've worked with a nice little Sony VAIO (about 10" widescreen, I think) that gets at least 3 hours, and it's a couple of years old. So the folks whose battery runs out at meetings aren't charging it when they get the opportunity, but only when they have to.

kiwi-in-uk
Nov 5, 2005, 06:06 AM
Yeah, I realize that, but I always found video conferencing to be something more for the consumer market, to chat with relatives and friends in style. As I'm a student, I really don't know much about the pro-market, but I had always assumed that audio and video chat weren't really common in the professional area, as it is difficult to review what has been said (as opposed to email).

Anyway, I'm waiting for an Intel iBook with iSight, ...hopefully it won't take too long, my iBook G3 500MHz is starting to grow old... :(
Video conferences are very common in large organisations, but tend to be 90s style special purpose (read expensive) gear in meeting rooms, with the video stream running over multiple ISDN links. PC based video conferencing is becoming more common, but can be awkward when in open plan offices, because it can be distracting for those sitting nearby, and limits the amount of sensitive material that can be discussed. (Headset/mic helps here but is still not as good as being in a closed room).

Hattig
Nov 5, 2005, 06:09 AM
EricNau and Mad Jew, I respect your opinions and yes, there is more to a computer than a processor. In fact, Apple has dropped the ball with every aspect of a laptop. For the same price my IBM kicks the hell out of my Powerbook. It has a better screen, better video card, faster ram, faster FSB, faster HDD (7200 RPM), better battery life, its more durable, and its the same size.

I'm a Mac fan guys, don't get me wrong, I can just see when Apple has screwed the pooch - and the current mobile line is it. They suck so bad and they are so HORRIBLY over-prices for what is essentially 3 year old hardware.

Edited:
Hattig, the specs on mine are last generation. Mine is under 2GHz... I believe its a ~1.7GHz chip.

Even so you are claiming that your 1GHz PowerBooks sucks "for what is essentially 3 year old hardware" ... however it is three year old hardware! Apple hasn't sold a 1GHz PowerBook for 2 years! The G4 isn't a great general purpose processor - the Athlon 64 and the Pentium M are, however where the G4 excels (vector mathematics) these other two can't compete. That's why my iBook can rip music faster than my (significantly faster, albeit old) PC. That's why some people find Photoshop faster than their fast PC. It isn't going to help your web browsing experience.

Yes, the PowerBook is overpriced, I won't argue there! Hence I have an iBook. The iBook is pretty decent value in my opinion - maybe $100 overpriced for what it is, but hey, Mac OS X is worth that.

And the current PowerBooks do have better screens (yes, Apple were late with them, but they'd have been late with them regardless of processor. The same goes for the graphics chips, the hard drive, the amount of memory ...).

Hattig
Nov 5, 2005, 06:35 AM
I don't know. I'm thinking it would be pretty hard to beat the Quad though. :p
Indeed. Ignoring AMD as Apple don't think they exist, a dual dual-core Xeon right now would SUCK in terms of performance, increase your power bill considerably and perform like a dual dual-core G5 1.5GHz or so.

However a dual Opteron 280 would beat the G5 in many, if not most, areas.

I get quite annoyed with some people in the Mac community. The G4 is not 'crap' simply because Apple are moving to Intel. It isn't great, and it doesn't have a future that competes with Intel's roadmap (this is what I'm really worried about actually, Intel have not performed well in the past couple of years regarding their roadmap). But currently it is okay-to-good. What really lets it down is the FSB, I bet with a 400MHz FSB, or an on-die memory controller, it would perform on par with an equivalently-clock Pentium M. If the G4 could compete at the same clock with a 133MHz FSB PIII, then it can compete with a Pentium M given a similar revamp. Apple are merely switching because Intel have a long-term roapmap that beats any PowerPC manufacturer's in terms of grunt and grunt/Watt.

But yes, Freescale clearly inherited all the Motorola managers that were holding Motorola back. Since they split off, Motorola really have started getting going again. If Freescale had invested in the long-term future of their PowerPC product instead of taking ages to make a chip that isn't yet in mass production that ekes the bus up by 20% and adds more L2 cache, whilst promising for several years now chips using Rapid/IO and similar that haven't emerged. Rapid/IO was once a competitor to HyperTransport before it got released. That's how old it is. Freescale are useless, and if they want to limit themselves to the low-performance embedded PowerPC market then so be it. They'll have to compete against PA Semi's new processor that'll be much more enticing than a dual-core G4.

Chupa Chupa
Nov 5, 2005, 06:42 AM
I don't believe the PowerBook iSight thing? I mean, do pros really need a built-in camera? For what? To chat with their mothers? That seems more like a consumer option to me. Especially when regarding Apple's PhotoBooth software, which I doubt would excite a single pro user :) .


Ever heard of video conferences? Tele-commuting? It would be a huge boon to pro user who travel if they could video conference from their hotel room rather than having to schelp to Kinkos or some place set up to to video conferencing.

Hattig
Nov 5, 2005, 07:00 AM
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. That's rich. Hold onto your fantasies for a few more months. That's about all you have left....months and fantasies. Fist off there is no Centrino processor


He said "Centrino PC", not "Centrino Processor". Centrino PCs (i.e., most Pentium M based laptops) do exist.


which you are suggesting in your post which goes to show how much you know. Secondly Windows XP handles multitasking perfectly fine. Just as OS X does as long as you have a fair amount of RAM. I leave my desktop PC open for months on end with its apps open. No problems. But we aren't talking about software. We are talking HARDWARE here and the simple fact is the G4 should have gone out the window when the G5 PowerMacs came on the scene. Its 2003 hardware that has been stretched so thin that its pathetic.

Ah, another 'G4 is pathetic' post. If Apple hadn't announced a switch to Intel you'd be expousing next year's dual-core G4, or IBM's low-power G5, or PA Semi's upcoming PowerPC processor.

Is the G4 pathetic? No. Technology wise it has gone through plenty of revisions - the current G4 is a different beast to the original G4. The Pentium M is a different beast to the Pentium 2, but that is it's ancestry. The issue is the G4's front side bus. If Motorola/Freescale had got off their collective backsides a couple of years ago and simply stuck a memory controller on the processor, and possibly some of the northbridge too, we'd have a pretty damn good processor right now. However we are still waiting for them to release something a year from now that does that. Useless company. Apple didn't switch because of current processors, they switched because there was no future in general purpose PowerPC chips.

Moving to Yonah and Merom will be good for performance for Mac users. I'm not anti-switch! Think about if Apple had switched to Intel 3 years ago though - we'd have HORRIBLE underperforming dual-core Pentium D chips in our macs, and PowerMacs would maybe have the just released dual-core Xeon which sucks even more. Seriously, the G4 and G5 were the right chips up until the switch next year.

splintah
Nov 5, 2005, 07:00 AM
i too think that its not really that important to make them thinner

1" is just fine

better cooling and therefore better graphicscards and cooler powerbooks are much more important than reduced thickness

Hattig
Nov 5, 2005, 07:13 AM
The Pentium is even faster than the AMD Opteron chips (clock for clock). That means that when we run PPC apps on one of the new Intel PowerBooks, they shouldn't run that much slower than on the current PPC Powerbooks.:)
Pentium M has good gaming performance because of its good integer performance. In everything else the Athlon 64 beats it. Anyway, I'm sure I saw a review where a 2GHz Turion (25W Athlon 64) beat a 2GHz Dothan (27W) in gaming performance given the same mobile graphics chip.

Anyway, the Pentium M tops out at 2.26GHz, and the Athlon 64 goes up to 2.8GHz, or 2.4GHz dual-core. So the argument is moot. When Intel releases desktop variants of this chip that run at equivalent speeds we can come back to the discussion.

Mitch1984
Nov 5, 2005, 07:22 AM
Um, 20-30% thinner? I'm sorry, but the Powerbooks are thin enough as it is. Making a peice of hardware thinner requires engineers to cut corners, and that's not good for the consumer.

No it doesn't they didn't cut any corners making the nano small!

rockthecasbah
Nov 5, 2005, 07:27 AM
No it doesn't they didn't cut any corners making the nano small!
true, and look at the iMac!! Those machines are amazing, and look at all the high performance stuff you can upgrade them to, as well as the svelte casing!

Mitch1984
Nov 5, 2005, 07:36 AM
As for the thinner design, it sounds like form has taken over function at Apple. The 5G iPod was also made thinner and that resulted in loss of FireWire. What will go in the next PowerBooks? The back-lit keyboards maybe?

Yeah but that's because Apple are trying to encourage people to use USB 2.0. I haven't got USb 2.0 but I guess it's time to upgrade soon anyway.

Isn't USB 2.0 faster than firewire now?

Apple were quick to get rid off floppy/zip drives because they realised alot of people were on the internet nowadays.

Now they will get rid of modems in the entire mac range because most people are using broadband, and if they aren't they should be.
I'm not bothered with that it'll give people a reason to leave dial up behind.

In 3 years maybe they everything will be wireless thus creating more space.

The optical media drive is here to stay, because blue ray is round the corner and digital distribution isn't everywhere yet.

themacman
Nov 5, 2005, 07:48 AM
GRRRRRR and i just bought a new powerbook too!!!! Oh well, ill wiati for the merom powerbooks anyways
same. i just bought a 15'' powerbook, maybe they will do a rev e for rev a program.:p

pionata
Nov 5, 2005, 07:52 AM
So the PowerBooks look set for MacWorld hey,

uumm, let me think

That would explain the crappy last update.
I reckon announce at MWSF to be shipped by end of Jan early Feb

13" 15" 17"

13" 2.26GHZ 1GBDDR2 80GB Superdrive 128mb X600
15" 2.4GHZ 1GBDDR2 100GB Superdrive 128mb x600 w/256 option
17" 2.4GHZ 1GBDDR2 120GB Superdrive 256mb

-All w/ iSight option
-All w/ 6GB flash drive for Mac OSX and fast booting
-Same price points
-All in Al finish with option of Black
-All armed and equipped to make 2006 the new 1984

ALSO NEW WIRELESS RELEASED

In March we will see a special event - new iBooks and Mac mini's

12" and 14" NON WIDESCREEEN

12" 1.73GHZ 512mb DDR2 40GB Superdrive 64mb 6200
14" 1.86GHZ 512mb DDR2 80GB Superdrive 64mb 6200

-All with iSight as an option
-Same price points
-In white or Black

Mac mini

1.73GHZ 512mb DDR2 40GB Combo 64mb 6200 $449
1.86GHZ 512mb DDR2 80GB Superdrive 64mb 6200 $599
1.86GHZ 512mb DDR2 160GB Superdrive TV Tuner 64mb 6600 $799

The WWDC will arrive:
Nothing major hardware side
- the world will be engulfed in PowerBook fever
maybe slight updates -
new Final Cut
Adobe will release new Series made for intel

Paris Expo

-Intel iMac's

Hey i can dream


Well, judging by the fact my ibook 800mhz is around the same speed as a pentium 1.6ghz (That has also twice more ram), I would prefer to stick to a G4 then. lol

But maybe the magic is os X and not the PPC processor.

Honestly, with the price of the powerbooks, I would see nothing less than a 3ghz in those.

300ZX
Nov 5, 2005, 07:54 AM
Originally Posted by Cinch
We can also elimnate firewire ports and just have two or three USB2 ports. That is it; just three USB2 and a video out port. That is all we need.

So how are we going to get our mini DV camcorders to import our videos into iMovie or anything else? Last I checked (30 seconds ago) camcorders only work (in OS X) when plugged in via firewire.

Seriously though, why do you need such a small computer? A guy I work with has some VAIO that is seriously like 10 inch widescreen; it looks like a widescreen calculator. It weighs nothing, but I do not see how you could use one of those regularly; it is just TOO SMALL. At the same time though, it does not lack on features one bit.

I see a LOT of the 12 inch ibooks on campus (probably becuase of the free ipod mini deal), and I don't think they really need to be any smaller than that. I find them to be too small the way it is, but to each his own. The 12" Powerbook probably sells well because it's the CHEAPEST of the Powerbook line...

The 14-15 inch models weigh like 5 pounds or less and are comparable in size to a notebook (pad of paper); how much thinner / lighter / do they really NEED to be? I for one would rather have a one pound heavier or 1/4 - 1/2 inch thicker notebook with more features and more power than to neuter it by making it any smaller than the current 12's.

Five to seven pounds is very light; if that is not "portable" enough, perhaps some strength training is in order...

Stella
Nov 5, 2005, 08:02 AM
Apple removed for two reason:
1. Reduce the size of the iPod nano
2. Reduce the cost. Apparently FW controllers are more expensive than USB

Firewire 400 is still faster than USB 2.

Found benchmarks ( for Macs, at least )-
Firewire v USB
http://www.barefeats.com/usb2.html

Yeah but that's because Apple are trying to encourage people to use USB 2.0. I haven't got USb 2.0 but I guess it's time to upgrade soon anyway.

Isn't USB 2.0 faster than firewire now?

iAFC
Nov 5, 2005, 08:04 AM
So can we expect those new iBooks for Macworld SF 2006? After checking the MacRumors' Buyer's Guide, I realized that it's very probable that we will see iBook updates in January. :)

giveup
Nov 5, 2005, 08:08 AM
I have positive feeling on Apple for making better laptop.

AidenShaw
Nov 5, 2005, 08:08 AM
One very important thing that contributes to the overall speed of a computer is the Front Side Bus - Something Apple has done well with, 1.25 GHz! :eek:
Note that the FSB on the G5 is bi-directional 32-bits, so it needs twice the MHz of the 64-bit Intel bus to read data at the same rate....

So, the 633MHz iMac bus can read at the same rate as a 317MHz 64-bit bus.

Beware of the MHz Myth for the FSB - again, the bus speed is only one of many factors in the overall equation.

wide
Nov 5, 2005, 08:10 AM
how would you get an isight into the powerbook display?

same way you get a camera into a RAZR phone

~Shard~
Nov 5, 2005, 08:23 AM
I'm a little late to this bit of news, but very nice, I must say! As for seeing Intel PowerBooks so early, this makes sense for a couple of reasons:

- the latest PowerBooks updates, although nice, were nothing groundbreaking (i.e.e 7448 chips, etc.)
- if Apple is going to eventually go with Merom, then it makes sense to put out a new machine sooner rather than later, so a) it can be in the market for a decent amount of time and b) we have something to tide us over until the Merom machines are ready

As for the built-in iSight, that would be very cool!

I'll definitely be following these rumors closely... 2006 has the potential to be an amazing year for Apple... :cool:

Hattig
Nov 5, 2005, 08:25 AM
Yeah but that's because Apple are trying to encourage people to use USB 2.0. I haven't got USb 2.0 but I guess it's time to upgrade soon anyway.

Isn't USB 2.0 faster than firewire now?


Only on paper, and only if you are comparing it against Ye Olde Firewire 400. However USB2 in reality does not even match Firewire 400, although it isn't bad. It also has higher CPU requirements.


Apple were quick to get rid off floppy/zip drives because they realised alot of people were on the internet nowadays.

Now they will get rid of modems in the entire mac range because most people are using broadband, and if they aren't they should be.
I'm not bothered with that it'll give people a reason to leave dial up behind.


There's lots of people in the world that don't have access to broadband yet, and won't for quite some time. Sure, drop the modem on the home systems, but don't drop it on the mobile systems, you never know when you want to get online and the only option is via a modem.

The floppy was rightly dropped because it was irrelevant. Woo, 1.44MB!


In 3 years maybe they everything will be wireless thus creating more space.

The optical media drive is here to stay, because blue ray is round the corner and digital distribution isn't everywhere yet.

Indeed, the optical drive won't go away for a very long time.

StarbucksSam
Nov 5, 2005, 08:27 AM
My Visa card just leapt out of my wallet like a spawning salmon.

That was so funny I had to post to tell you how funny it was.

Anyway, the 13" iBook sounds cool, but honestly, I'm happy with what I have now and intend to keep it for another 2 and a half years.

VanMac
Nov 5, 2005, 08:29 AM
Would like some spy shots of these new PBs.

I would be a guinea pig and go for the rev-a. Worth the buzz.

Darwin
Nov 5, 2005, 08:33 AM
I look forward to seeing a design refresh, also if they are going to make the laptops thinner that will be interesting to see

~Shard~
Nov 5, 2005, 08:36 AM
I look forward to seeing a design refresh, also if they are going to make the laptops thinner that will be interesting to see

Yeah, precisely, they don't exactly have a lot of fat that could be trimmed. ;) :cool:

maya
Nov 5, 2005, 08:40 AM
Sounds great and all, however that iSight in the screen needs to be movable. Maybe some sort of auto-movement detection. ;) :)

Hattig
Nov 5, 2005, 08:42 AM
Note that the FSB on the G5 is bi-directional 32-bits, so it needs twice the MHz of the 64-bit Intel bus to read data at the same rate....

So, the 633MHz iMac bus can read at the same rate as a 317MHz 64-bit bus.

Beware of the MHz Myth for the FSB - again, the bus speed is only one of many factors in the overall equation.

But it is bi-directional, so on a 1.25GHz bus your can read and write 5GB/s at the same time.

The 64-bit Pentium bus runs at 100MHz quad-pumped (for the 400MHz Dothan), 133MHz (for the 533MHz Dothan) and 167MHz (for upcoming 667MHz bus Yonahs, Meroms). One issue with quad pumped vs. double pumped is that it is less efficient. Ignoring that, a Yonah next year on a 667MT/s bus will have a total of 5.3GB/s to AND from the chipset.

dan_
Nov 5, 2005, 08:47 AM
I don't know, all reports I've seen have pointed towards Apple. (Especially the ones reported by Apple) :p
And I was comparing Macs out right now, to PC's out right now. Not Intel Macs vs Current Macs.

But hopefully you are right about seeing even faster computers coming.

We're talking about the G4, not the G5.

bloosqr
Nov 5, 2005, 08:48 AM
??? really that's seems a little odd to me as it stands right now a 3yr old PC would be in the Semptron 3000 (2.ghz) range and my sister has one of these systems with the same amount of RAM as my 1ghz powerbook 768MB And my Powerbook may not boot as fast (but even the Dual 2.7 doesn't boot as fast as most windows machines) but lets try encoding MPEG-4 with quicktime or ripping a CD to MP3 or doing something in photoshop.... and in all cases the powerbook is either just as good or beats the pants off the PC (in this case CD ripping is twice as fast on the powerbook).


I really doubt this. I have a power g4 running at 1.33 ghz and it is about as fast as the p3/800 laptop that it replaced (from about 4 years ago). I also have a g5 which is an incredible fast machine. If you have a chance
actually try this benchmark, use the lame encoder to encode the same mp3 file on both of your systems, and post the timing tests that you get. The only thing that I can thing of that may make this true is the sempron was one of those "budget" chips made to compete w/ the celeron and has only 256 kb of l2 cache. But still the FSB was 333 mhz which is basically still twice as fast the the G4.

Incidentally doing mpeg-4 encoding is insanely slow (hours for a two hour movie) on a g5, how long does it take to do on the g4?

ebunton
Nov 5, 2005, 09:05 AM
"new eye-catching industrial designs"

Wow, who would've thought? :rolleyes:

macrumors12345
Nov 5, 2005, 09:11 AM
I think very FEW people would like 1920x1080+ on a 13" screen, if they actually sat down and tried to use such a thing. :D Talk about fine print!


Dude, 720p is considered HDTV, and that is a resolution of 1280x720, which would be perfectly acceptable on a 13" widescreen. Not all HD is 1080p (1920x1080). Again, I repeat, NOT ALL HD is 1080p. Unless the original poster said he wanted HD at 1080p resolutions (which he didn't), you shouldn't assume that he was asking for 1920x1080.

Hattig
Nov 5, 2005, 09:26 AM
I really doubt this. I have a power g4 running at 1.33 ghz and it is about as fast as the p3/800 laptop that it replaced (from about 4 years ago). I also have a g5 which is an incredible fast machine. If you have a chance
actually try this benchmark, use the lame encoder to encode the same mp3 file on both of your systems, and post the timing tests that you get.

Hardly fair to test an extensively SSE, SSE2, etc optimised application against the plain-jane PowerPC version. Looking on Google I saw plenty of stuff that stated that Lame didn't use Altivec in its PowerPC version.

And sorry to change the issue, but what Mac user is going to be using MP3 ahead of AAC when iTunes can rip at 10x speed even on an iBook, and over 20x on a dual G5 system? How fast can iTunes rip on a PC compared to on a Mac? I know it takes 20 minutes on my girlfriends 733PIII to rip a CD compared to around 5 on my iBook.

AtHomeBoy_2000
Nov 5, 2005, 09:46 AM
What's the "MacTel" roll out plan?
I thought the iBook and Mac mini were being switched first.

joebells
Nov 5, 2005, 09:52 AM
Is there anything similar to exact audio copy for the mac?

amac4me
Nov 5, 2005, 10:01 AM
The current revision to the Powerbook line was less than spectacular. As a result I haven't purchased one yet.

With this rumor hitting the wires, I don't mind waiting.

Chupa Chupa
Nov 5, 2005, 10:07 AM
Dude, 720p is considered HDTV, and that is a resolution of 1280x720, which would be perfectly acceptable on a 13" widescreen. Not all HD is 1080p (1920x1080). Again, I repeat, NOT ALL HD is 1080p. Unless the original poster said he wanted HD at 1080p resolutions (which he didn't), you shouldn't assume that he was asking for 1920x1080.


I think you are missing the poster's point. His point was such a resolution would be too small and uncomfortable (the better the rez, the smaller the text and graphics appear, even if they are sharper) to read on a 13". I have to agree. I find the native rez on the new PBs almost too much.

aegisdesign
Nov 5, 2005, 10:25 AM
Will there be any disadvantages to the new Intel laptops or any great benefits? The only thing im aware of is that Intel chips are faster and use less power.

They're only faster at integer maths. They're slower at floating point and vector maths.

For instance, my 1.8 Ghz G5 iMac rips music at between 11 and 16 times the normal speed whereas my 1.8 Ghz Pentium M laptop rips at a dissapointing 6x speed. Both from the hard disk.

However, that's made up for mostly in that you can get 2Ghz+ dual core Intel chips next year and the G4 is topping out at 1.67 so far with a single core and slower FSB.

But then if you've no native Intel software you're left with Rosetta which runs AltiVec code at about 10% the speed of a G4 currently. ie. slower than a 500Mhz iBook G3.

oliverlubin
Nov 5, 2005, 10:28 AM
The current revision to the Powerbook line was less than spectacular. As a result I haven't purchased one yet.

With this rumor hitting the wires, I don't mind waiting.

i have a feeling you're going to be waiting at least 9 months.

maya
Nov 5, 2005, 10:37 AM
i have a feeling you're going to be waiting at least 9 months.

Some people thrive on that "eternal wait." No surprise here. :rolleyes: ;) :)

7isles
Nov 5, 2005, 10:37 AM
I'm still a windows user here, but I've been saving my money for what seems like forever now to buy myself a purrty powerbook. But now with these new rumors, I'm thinking maybe I should wait a few more months or longer.

I'm not a gamer, nor would I use any software for video editing or anything like that. Other than Photoshop, Dreamweaver, firefox, iTunes, msn messenger, and watching a movie I've downloaded or a DVD on occasion, I don't do much else really. So would I be ok with buying one of the newly updated G4 powerbooks or should I still wait?

swissmann
Nov 5, 2005, 10:48 AM
I'll be buying.

TaKashMoney
Nov 5, 2005, 10:51 AM
7isles, for what you're planning on doing I dont see why a current ibook wouldnt hit the sweet spot- and save you some cash! Even when they release the new widescreen ibook, I'll still love this baby. What a deal!

aegisdesign
Nov 5, 2005, 10:56 AM
If the OS you are running is resolution independent then it makes no odds what the DPI of the screen is. It's only because OS X has so far been resolution dependent that Apple have been unable to increase the DPI of their screens. Hopefully this issue will be addressed with 10.5 - if not sooner.

Cheers Daniel

That's only a minor problem.

The web is the major problem. Images usually are specified in pixels as are movies so will be much smaller than the text. If a site designer has specified any table widths or fonts in pixels then those will be very small too.

Images from your camera are fixed resolution.

If you're working in photoshop, a 72dpi image at 100% will be very small on a 133dpi screen (the current Powerbook's dpi). You'll have to blow it up 200% to work on it.

There's lots of problems moving away from dpis that we've presumed for years.

nichos
Nov 5, 2005, 10:58 AM
I don't think so for three reasons:

Too expensive
not realiable enough
too limiting in size


Maybe they could span across multple flash drives, so it only looks like 1 drive to the end user.

nichos
Nov 5, 2005, 11:00 AM
Um, 20-30% thinner? I'm sorry, but the Powerbooks are thin enough as it is. Making a peice of hardware thinner requires engineers to cut corners, and that's not good for the consumer.

I bet ya 15 years ago, someone said the same thing about a laptop that is the current size of the pb ;)

Lanbrown
Nov 5, 2005, 11:01 AM
and so does iSight in the Powerbooks.


The displays are quite thin, the graphics quality of the iSight is going to suffer. Much like mobile phones, you can increase the MP of the camera, but the pictures are still inferior because of the cheap optics and the short optics length.

aegisdesign
Nov 5, 2005, 11:02 AM
7isles, for what you're planning on doing I dont see why a current ibook wouldnt hit the sweet spot- and save you some cash! Even when they release the new widescreen ibook, I'll still love this baby. What a deal!

The 1024x768 resolution on the iBooks is totally inadequate for running Dreamweaver or Photoshop IME. You can do it, but you'll feel very, very cramped. Those are applications where widescreen displays make a lot of difference as you can run a fairly normal 800x600 size area for viewing your web output with all the panels you want at the side.

The 15 or 17 Powerbook are better suited. An iMac is even better if you don't need the portability and the screen doesn't have such weeny fonts so it matches up with what most people actually have rather than the few people that have high resolution screens. Much nicer on the eyes.

Capt Underpants
Nov 5, 2005, 11:12 AM
Well, judging by the fact my ibook 800mhz is around the same speed as a pentium 1.6ghz (That has also twice more ram), I would prefer to stick to a G4 then. lol

But maybe the magic is os X and not the PPC processor.

Honestly, with the price of the powerbooks, I would see nothing less than a 3ghz in those.

I'm guessing you were comparing a 1.6 GHz Pentium 4 to your iBook. The processors in the powerbooks will NOT be Pentium 4's (obviously). They will be processors with much higher performance per clock. I'm betting a 1.6 GHz Pentium-M will outperform your lowly iBook by miles.

lopresmb
Nov 5, 2005, 11:12 AM
IMO any way you look at it, this should be a pretty sweet machine...all of 'em

mrgreen4242
Nov 5, 2005, 11:38 AM
The worst news for me is that iSight would be built-in to the PowerBook display. I would hope that they would have a version without the camera, because having the camera is unacceptable to my workplace, and thus unacceptable to me.

For anyone who uses their PowerBook for technical or engineering work, most places do not allow devices that can take an image on the premises. I could not even have the machine in my car in the parking lot, let alone actually take it into a building - not exactly what you want in a portable computer...

Hopefully they would not make it as hard to acquire a no-camera version as, say, Palm and Sprint do with the Treos.

~Jeff Corbets

Ya, the camera in the laptop seems like an iBook thing to me anyways. If they are trying to sell PowerBooks to "pro" users and iBooks to "consumers" then I think it would make sense to put an iSight in the iBook. Did they put an iSight into the 23" and 30" ACD? No, they put it in the iMac, where you could argue, it belongs.

Anyways, I am still reading this thread, but wanted to chime in that I will be buying the Rev A Intel iBook, especially if it is a 13" widescreen, but not if they only have a single model with a 14" or larger LCD.

If they continue to not have DVI on the iBook I might change my plans as well, and if they severely cripple the GPU I may hold off. I'm hoping they put something DECENT (I would be more than happy with a card that can play this past summers games on a computer released next summer - so a GPU that can put out decent results in Doom 3, basically). Oh, and if they disable screen spanning for "no good reason" again I will probably hold off.

Either way, I hope they do make a 12 or 13" iBook, or worst case they keep the 12" PowerBook and make it a decent machine (not just an overpriced, over-styled iBook like it is now). I need something super small and light that I can take from home to work everyday. Screen size is only relevant for me as a portable DVD player, so 10"+ is fine there. At home and work I will use an external display anyways.

I expect to get one, tho; with such a wide selection of CPUs from Intel Apple can use single core/dual corse, clock speed, front side bus, and more to separate the laptop lines and not rely on artificially hobbling the "low end" machines.

jiv3turkey748
Nov 5, 2005, 11:56 AM
it really sounds like some great products are coming out after the intel switch
i cant wait

Get A Mac
Nov 5, 2005, 12:26 PM
Not "in" the display but around the display area. Like the new iMac G5.

Yeah, but the iMac is over an inch thick. The laptop screens are less than a centimeter. I don't see how they can fit an iSight in there without something sticking out, and Apple wouldn't like that.

wizard
Nov 5, 2005, 01:05 PM
He said "Centrino PC", not "Centrino Processor". Centrino PCs (i.e., most Pentium M based laptops) do exist.



Ah, another 'G4 is pathetic' post. If Apple hadn't announced a switch to Intel you'd be expousing next year's dual-core G4, or IBM's low-power G5, or PA Semi's upcoming PowerPC processor.

I think many of us (at least this guy) would have preferred that Apple would have stayed with PPC. That would be for reasons other than raw performance though. In any event it is obvious that Apple doesn't have a supplier for laptop chips that are competitive overall. It is nice to see develoment going on in the PPC arena but frankly that stuff is just to far out to be engineered into a coputer to be delivered in a couple of months.

So yeah the G4 is pathetic thus the interest in all the new PPC development. It is just unfortunate that it is to little to late.


Is the G4 pathetic? No. Technology wise it has gone through plenty of revisions - the current G4 is a different beast to the original G4. The Pentium M is a different beast to the Pentium 2, but that is it's ancestry. The issue is the G4's front side bus. If Motorola/Freescale had got off their collective backsides a couple of years ago and simply stuck a memory controller on the processor, and possibly some of the northbridge too, we'd have a pretty damn good processor right now.

Funny how you first state that the G4 isn't pathetic then go on to zero in on things that make it pathetic. So which is it? Is it a chip that has failed to evolve to effectively compete against stuff in x86 land - or is it a chip that can effectively make use of modern technology? The answer is clear the G5 is a pathetic chip for use in a modern laptop. No amount of weakly argued promotion is going to change that in my mind.

However we are still waiting for them to release something a year from now that does that. Useless company. Apple didn't switch because of current processors, they switched because there was no future in general purpose PowerPC chips.

So agian what is it, is the G4 useles or not? The company has little to do with it, for the markets it intends to target it may very well be a usefull chip. For Apple though it is crap, there is really no other way to describe it.


Moving to Yonah and Merom will be good for performance for Mac users. I'm not anti-switch! Think about if Apple had switched to Intel 3 years ago though - we'd have HORRIBLE underperforming dual-core Pentium D chips in our macs, and PowerMacs would maybe have the just released dual-core Xeon which sucks even more. Seriously, the G4 and G5 were the right chips up until the switch next year.

Well that is one way to look at it. The other way is to realize that once Apple has a X86 code base to release then they have alternatives. An Opteron based Mac would have been very competitve and probably a bit easier on power. I'm almost certain that Apple had AMD in the back of its mind when making the change, if for nothing else to keep Intel honest.

The unfortunate thing with PPC is that even though there are several manufactures of PPC chips none of them have targetted the desktop markets instead have focused on the embedded market. These players in PPC land have done nothing to generate competition with respect to PPC hardware. It is a bit of a shame but that isn't where the profits are apparently.

Dave

Clix Pix
Nov 5, 2005, 01:23 PM
While I applaud the idea of an even thinner PB I do wonder about its durability.... I'd love to have a tiny lightweight little PB to tote about, but undoubtedly there would be a price to pay in terms of functionality and features. Prior to going with my PB I had briefly considered the Toshiba R200, but soon ruled that laptop out because compared to a PB it just looks so....flimsy and fragile. The keyboard sinks in on one side, which is somewhat disconcerting when typing on it. Sure, the R200 is extremely thin and lightweight, but it also requires that the optical drive be an external add-on, which somewhat negates the value of its tiny size, since the user would then have to tote along the external drive if he/she needed to use it for anything while on the road. For the money, I quickly realized that the value just isn't there, especially when compared to any of the Apple laptops. (Not to mention, of course, that the R200 is afflicted with Windoze....LOL!)

I really hope that Apple DOES NOT put the iSight camera in the new PBs!! Save that for the iBooks and leave the PBs alone. As has already been noted, there are some corporations and government agencies which would not permit anyone with a camera-equipped laptop to enter the building, as there is potential security risk. Aside from that, in my opinion adding a camera to the sleek PB would spoil its looks and definitely detract from the overall elegance of the design. It also (again, my opinion for what that's worth) would not be as "professional" looking. The sleek, elegant PB looks very clean and professional, as though the user means business..... Maybe, as someone suggested, there will be options, and people will have the choice of buying a PB with or without the iSight. That would be just dandy in my book!

OTB

stevep
Nov 5, 2005, 01:25 PM
Yeah, but the iMac is over an inch thick. The laptop screens are less than a centimeter. I don't see how they can fit an iSight in there without something sticking out, and Apple wouldn't like that.
What sort of cameras do they fit in mobile phones? Some of them are pretty thin. Also the new Sony T7 (?? i think) digital camera is very thin.

thoroughbred
Nov 5, 2005, 01:37 PM
Soundz like I'm the only one who doesn't want apple to switch to intel. I'm in the process of buying an ibook. Do you think I should wait.

oliverlubin
Nov 5, 2005, 01:44 PM
Soundz like I'm the only one who doesn't want apple to switch to intel. I'm in the process of buying an ibook. Do you think I should wait.

no. dont wait. the current iBooks is a great value. additionally, there have been refurbished models of the current line available on the apple store in the past weeks. at $800 it's hard to beat if you can snag one.

otter-boy
Nov 5, 2005, 02:02 PM
How about making a practical and beautiful laptop out of the 12" or 13" models. I would like one with 6+ hours of real life use, and I think it is totally possible w/ today's technology. We can eliminate the CD/DVD drive which will free up lots of space for a larger battery. Lets also eliminate the modem port, I mean who uses this anymore. While we are at it, eliminate the ethernet port. There are so many hotspots now, I can't imagine needing one. We can also elimnate firewire ports and just have two or three USB2 ports. That is it; just three USB2 and a video out port. That is all we need.

I like to use a laptop like a cell phone i.e. I don't want to plug it in during the day. I guess I just hate see Dell's laptop at meetings where the owner says, "oops, I have to plug my laptop in before it runs out of juice." Yeah 10 minute into the meeting:D . This happens all the time. It is very comical!


I for one will not buy a laptop with an external CD/DVD drive-I use the drive way too often, especially for saving and sharing large files. I don't want to have to lug around some extra piece of hardware everywhere I go.

Getting rid of the modem port is a possibility but I doubt they'll do it because way too many people need to connect to a phone line when travelling, and the same goes for the ethernet port. Apple can't just make the computer for Americans that never travel; they need to think about the broader (and much larger) market.

Firewire needs to stay, too many hard-drives and camcorders require it. How many times are you using three USB ports simultaneously? If you do that often, you should just get a hub. Firewire gives us options, especially those of us who are professionals that require hook-ups to video equipment. Anyway, if you have to plug your CD/DVD drive into one of the USB ports, you've already lost another port.

I have to agree that gaining battery life is more important than merely cutting size. Hopefully Apple can do both: cut the size a bit and extend real-world battery time to 5 or 6+ hours. If they cut the size but don't extend the battery life, I wil be disappointed.

EricNau
Nov 5, 2005, 02:13 PM
How about making a practical and beautiful laptop out of the 12" or 13" models. I would like one with 6+ hours of real life use, and I think it is totally possible w/ today's technology. We can eliminate the CD/DVD drive which will free up lots of space for a larger battery. Lets also eliminate the modem port, I mean who uses this anymore. While we are at it, eliminate the ethernet port. There are so many hotspots now, I can't imagine needing one. We can also elimnate firewire ports and just have two or three USB2 ports. That is it; just three USB2 and a video out port. That is all we need.

I like to use a laptop like a cell phone i.e. I don't want to plug it in during the day. I guess I just hate see Dell's laptop at meetings where the owner says, "oops, I have to plug my laptop in before it runs out of juice." Yeah 10 minute into the meeting . This happens all the time. It is very comical!
That laptop would sell like a lead balloon.
NO CD/DVD DRIVE??? That's crazy. :eek:
I could see maybe eliminating the modem, but ethernet??? Apple must believe ethernet is important, considering they are putting 2 on each Powermac.
And by getting rid of Firewire, no one would be able to use their Digital Camcorder, because if not all, most digital camcorders only support Firewire.

JasonDawg18
Nov 5, 2005, 02:28 PM
Hi,

I've read through alot (not all) of the posts. One question I have for the experts here.

Would this PB be considered a G5? What does a G5 constitute? I thought about buying the latest PB update, but decided to wait for the next generation.

The week or two before the last PB came out (Oct 19), I read one post by a guy who claimed to have an inside source at apple. He said his friend said that the Oct. 19 release would be a bore, but after the first of the year "WOW!"... He was right about the first half of his specualtion... Here's hoping he'll be right about the second half.

I look forward to seeing whatever it is that comes out...

QuarterSwede
Nov 5, 2005, 02:32 PM
I have to believe the iSight would be tucked away into the recess of the latch just about the LCD. No one would even see it and yes, digital cameras can be that small with good resolution. All they would have to do is flatten the components out and mount it behind the LCD or even in the main computer housing itself (with a ribbon connecting it to the camera). Most people here are underestimating how small digital cameras can be.

AUBPsych
Nov 5, 2005, 02:33 PM
I'm pretty much going to buy a 15" PB in May 2006 regardless of whether it's Merom or Yonah, because that's when I'll definitely need a new computer. I don't do much that is CPU-intensive, so I don't need the latest and greatest (unlike most of the lovely people on these forums, haha).

I can't take this 5 year-old Gateway Pentium III desktop to college....that's just embarrassing!

EricNau
Nov 5, 2005, 03:05 PM
Hi,

I've read through alot (not all) of the posts. One question I have for the experts here.

Would this PB be considered a G5? What does a G5 constitute? I thought about buying the latest PB update, but decided to wait for the next generation.

The week or two before the last PB came out (Oct 19), I read one post by a guy who claimed to have an inside source at apple. He said his friend said that the Oct. 19 release would be a bore, but after the first of the year "WOW!"... He was right about the first half of his specualtion... Here's hoping he'll be right about the second half.

I look forward to seeing whatever it is that comes out...
I'm not sure I understand your question. The G5 stands for "Generation 5" and it applies to the processor that the computer has. The G5 is in some Apple Computers (the iMac G5 & Powermac G5). Currently, the Mac Minis, Powerbooks, and iBooks use the G5 predecessor, the G4.
The updates will be Intel (probably) and therefore won't be a "G5." I don't know if Apple will take it above G5 or if they will come out with a new naming system with the Intels.

Maybe you were thinking of the Rev of the computer, but that is usually given in letters, not numbers.

(Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong on any of this.)

outZider
Nov 5, 2005, 03:12 PM
... but not if they only have a single model with a 14" or larger LCD.

If they continue to not have DVI on the iBook I might change my plans as well, and if they severely cripple the GPU I may hold off. I'm hoping they put something DECENT (I would be more than happy with a card that can play this past summers games on a computer released next summer - so a GPU that can put out decent results in Doom 3, basically). Oh, and if they disable screen spanning for "no good reason" again I will probably hold off.

Sounds like you want a PowerBook, man. Go buy one.

sethypoo
Nov 5, 2005, 03:20 PM
Wow, if a 15" PowerBook was 25% thinner than it is right now, it would be 3/4 of a inch thick. Less than an inch thick. Get out a ruler and just imagine a PowerBook that thin. Amazing!

The G5 stands for "Generation 5" and it applies to the processor that the computer has. The G5 is in some Apple Computers (the iMac G5 & Powermac G5). Currently, the Mac Minis, Powerbooks, and iBooks use the G5 predecessor, the G4.

I do believe you're wrong about this. G5 doesn't stand for G5, is stands for (more or less) the architecture of the processor. Yes, the G5 came after the G4, so it's related to its generation, but the G4 processors are considerably slower than the current G5 processors. Just look at the cashe levels and the front side buses. The G4 processors in the current PowerBooks, iBooks, and Mac mini's are NOT G5 processors, they're G4's.

Eluon
Nov 5, 2005, 03:28 PM
Well, this will give the rumor sites something to talk about for a while now. Also, does anyone want to put some money on when the first pictures will surface from an employee in an elevator, or spotting at an expo behind black walls? I'm just curious when the Apple and Photoshop faithful will try to manipulate with a new picture...anyone?

Multimedia
Nov 5, 2005, 03:36 PM
Yeah, but the iMac is over an inch thick. The laptop screens are less than a centimeter. I don't see how they can fit an iSight in there without something sticking out, and Apple wouldn't like that.This is NOT a new feature. Sony Vaio's have had built in cameras for several years. It's on a verticle swivel in the middle of the top screen frame. Nothing innovative about this "new" feature at all. Really only a catching up to old Sony tech.:rolleyes:

Hi,

I've read through alot (not all) of the posts. One question I have for the experts here.

Would this PB be considered a G5? What does a G5 constitute? I thought about buying the latest PB update, but decided to wait for the next generation.

The week or two before the last PB came out (Oct 19), I read one post by a guy who claimed to have an inside source at apple. He said his friend said that the Oct. 19 release would be a bore, but after the first of the year "WOW!"... He was right about the first half of his specualtion... Here's hoping he'll be right about the second half.

I look forward to seeing whatever it is that comes out..."G5" will be the end of the "G" anything line for Macs. I'm sure Apple will want to identify subsequent models' series by their Intel brand names. There will not be a G5 PowerBook. G4 will be the end of the "G"x Powerbook models. I think Intel has not yet identified the brand name they will give their dual core Yonah Processors. I am unsure if they will be 64-bit first or not. Anyone here know?

This is what Apple will lead with in their early '06 PowerBooks probably announced in the January 10, 2006 SteveNote.

EricNau
Nov 5, 2005, 03:52 PM
I do believe you're wrong about this. G5 doesn't stand for G5, is stands for (more or less) the architecture of the processor. Yes, the G5 came after the G4, so it's related to its generation, but the G4 processors are considerably slower than the current G5 processors. Just look at the cashe levels and the front side buses. The G4 processors in the current PowerBooks, iBooks, and Mac mini's are NOT G5 processors, they're G4's.
Here's my source. Wiki_G5 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerPC_G5)
I said Powerbooks, iBooks, & Mac mini's use the "G5's predecessor, the G4"

illegalprelude
Nov 5, 2005, 03:59 PM
This is NOT a new feature. Sony Vaio's have had built in cameras for several years. It's on a verticle swivel in the middle of the top screen frame. Nothing innovative about this "new" feature at all. Really only a catching up to old Sony tech.:rolleyes:


yea. I dont wanna start anti apple antie sony bla bla but I agree, sony has had that out for years. the quality on it was superb for video and pics, the one i saw was on their 10" I believe, white too was it? but yea. awesome laptop

Hattig
Nov 5, 2005, 04:24 PM
Funny how you first state that the G4 isn't pathetic then go on to zero in on things that make it pathetic. So which is it? Is it a chip that has failed to evolve to effectively compete against stuff in x86 land - or is it a chip that can effectively make use of modern technology? The answer is clear the G5 is a pathetic chip for use in a modern laptop. No amount of weakly argued promotion is going to change that in my mind.


A common mistake by many people is to assume "Not Good" means "Pathetic". Black = NOT White.

I just meant that the G4 isn't pathetic, and it isn't great, it's just average these days apart from certain tasks. But it annoys me to see people trapped in the RDF so much that they can't think for themselves.

inmotion
Nov 5, 2005, 04:30 PM
well... brand new here... 1st post :p
still a window user here but have been following the forum for a while now... i'll probably be picking up one of the new PB when they come out right before i head for university... just as a side note... Asus has been also making some laptops with cameras with good quality... i believe the W3 has a 1.5 megapixel camera.... anyhow... any recommendations for a "soon" to be mac owner (is it risky to get the Rev A ?) cheers:)

Lacero
Nov 5, 2005, 04:32 PM
So in going Intel, is the new big brother face that of Bill Gates? Just like in 1984 when they thought IBM was the competitor, in 2006, I think their greatest enemy is Google.

iEric
Nov 5, 2005, 04:33 PM
maybe i'll get an iBook afterall?

but PBs are so cool

jmufellow
Nov 5, 2005, 04:42 PM
So in going Intel, is the new big brother face that of Bill Gates? Just like in 1984 when they thought IBM was the competitor, in 2006, I think their greatest enemy is Google.
I don't understand...are you saying that Google is a threat to Apple?

AP_piano295
Nov 5, 2005, 04:49 PM
I don't understand...are you saying that Google is a threat to Apple?

I think google is making itself a threat to everyone

hyperpasta
Nov 5, 2005, 05:00 PM
I think google is making itself a threat to everyone

I do too. And I don't like Google. While for a while they were making the best of the best (Google Earth, Google Search, GMail), now they're products are all second-rte (Desktop, Talk).

balamw
Nov 5, 2005, 05:03 PM
His point was such a resolution would be too small and uncomfortable (the better the rez, the smaller the text and graphics appear, even if they are sharper) to read on a 13".
I know. I was the original one who made the HD comment, and I meant 1280x720+ not 1920x1080. 1280x720 on a 13" diagonal screen is only slightly higher than Apple's preferred 100 dpi (~110 dpi), but is standard a standard HD resolution. Knowing Apple's fondness for 16:10 instead of 16:9 it'll probably be 1280x800.

B

Is there anything similar to exact audio copy for the mac?
Doesn't seem like the right thread, but I believe there is a port of cdparanoia, the program which inspired EAC in the first place, for OS X. http://www.livejournal.com/users/strangehours/9698.html

B

bentoon
Nov 5, 2005, 05:45 PM
Interesting...
While it doesn't pertain to the PowerMacs - I was about to pull the trigger on a new dual dual,
and just hearing this makes me know that if I do I will be green in a few months
Though the desktops wont come (rev B) until LATE 2006 / 7 -
I will be in wanting
Wanting wanting
The endless cycle of craving

aafuss1
Nov 5, 2005, 06:07 PM
The eMac-will still be upgraded (even though it's EDU only) and the iBook should get a better screen resolution.

ZorPrime
Nov 5, 2005, 06:21 PM
I seriously wonder if Apple adopt HDMI over DVI because of its smaller (not an engineer here ok) apparent size and ability to use adaptors for DVI...


That's a really good question. I would guess Apple will adopt the HDMI standard, when it starts shipping machines with either Blu-Ray or HD-DVD drives. I would also guess they'll also ensure their HDMI interfaces are HDCP compliant.

pubwvj
Nov 5, 2005, 06:38 PM
Hope they wont be so stupid to attach Intel Inside sticky on new PBs!

Agreed. I really <i><b>DON'T</b></i> want to be seeing "Intel Inside" stickers, or any others, on my machine. But I highly doubt Jobs would ever allow that. You can apply all the stickers you want after you get it but I will bet good money that it will come clean.

Photorun
Nov 5, 2005, 06:45 PM
I can't believe this thread is this long and it's based on AppleInsider.com, a notoriously bad "rumor" site. If ThinkSecret ran a piece I could understand, but AppleInsider? C'mon people, move along, nothing to see here.

iEdd
Nov 5, 2005, 06:47 PM
I think we will probably get a sheet of white apple stickers and a sheet of intel stickers. Possibly a new joint logo on a sticker. Just an apple logo on the machines though.

themacman
Nov 5, 2005, 07:25 PM
Hi,

I've read through alot (not all) of the posts. One question I have for the experts here.

Would this PB be considered a G5? What does a G5 constitute? I thought about buying the latest PB update, but decided to wait for the next generation.

The week or two before the last PB came out (Oct 19), I read one post by a guy who claimed to have an inside source at apple. He said his friend said that the Oct. 19 release would be a bore, but after the first of the year "WOW!"... He was right about the first half of his specualtion... Here's hoping he'll be right about the second half.

I look forward to seeing whatever it is that comes out...
no this would not be considered a g5. The G5 is the powerpc 970 family which is not anything intel. So i dont know what they are going to do about naming, G6, I6 idk, but its apple theyll think of something good.

dernhelm
Nov 5, 2005, 07:28 PM
20 to 25% thinner form factor on the PBs? wow! :eek: Can you say flash memory?

If this is true, something's got to give here. 25% thinner than my powerbook would put it at 3/4". There are subnotebooks that aren't that thin, much less professional notebooks with dvd burners and 100GB hard drives!

I sincerely doubt that they'd put flash drives in them, but they might put the ultra-small iPod 5G drives in there (or the next gen drives of that type that hit 80 GB).

dernhelm
Nov 5, 2005, 07:30 PM
That's a really good question. I would guess Apple will adopt the HDMI standard, when it starts shipping machines with either Blu-Ray or HD-DVD drives. I would also guess they'll also ensure their HDMI interfaces are HDCP compliant.

I'd like to see this. HDMI carries digital audio signal as well, so it would be a double win.

Detlev_73
Nov 5, 2005, 07:46 PM
I wonder if Apple will be putting the Blu-Ray into these?

dansgil
Nov 5, 2005, 07:50 PM
What sort of cameras do they fit in mobile phones? Some of them are pretty thin. Also the new Sony T7 (?? i think) digital camera is very thin.

And, it has a 3X optical zoom. The camera is only 14.7 mm at it's thickest point (where the lens is).

I, for one would love to see a camera in the Powerbook.

stefan15
Nov 5, 2005, 08:31 PM
YEAH Widescreen iBook..no complaints there unless it kills the price point!

runninmac
Nov 5, 2005, 08:38 PM
I can't believe this thread is this long and it's based on AppleInsider.com, a notoriously bad "rumor" site. If ThinkSecret ran a piece I could understand, but AppleInsider? C'mon people, move along, nothing to see here.


Um... AppleInsider probobly is tied with think secret for their track record. In august they mentioned Macs with iSights and iPod minis w/ colored screens and said could be updated in the fall (which turned out to be the nano... but close enough). Also how they said there would be high res. powerbooks and new powermacs at the Photo expo... Really Thinksecret and Appleinsider are the 2 best rumor sites.

Lanbrown
Nov 5, 2005, 08:54 PM
That's a really good question. I would guess Apple will adopt the HDMI standard, when it starts shipping machines with either Blu-Ray or HD-DVD drives. I would also guess they'll also ensure their HDMI interfaces are HDCP compliant.

They will use Blu-Ray, they are a member. They're not a member of the HD-DVD group.

illegalprelude
Nov 5, 2005, 09:08 PM
I wonder if Apple will be putting the Blu-Ray into these?

thats what ive been wondering about. I know they support Blue-Ray and Blue-Ray is coming out via PS3 during springish so when are the players gonna come out too? hhmmm

ZorPrime
Nov 5, 2005, 09:37 PM
They will use Blu-Ray, they are a member. They're not a member of the HD-DVD group.

I hope they use Blu-Ray too and it does look likely they might ship Blu-Ray. :) (operative word, might) As to what platform they will “definitely” use… I think it can go either way. :o The DVD Forum along with Intel (Apple’s new CPU master) support HD-DVD. Apple happens to be a member of the DVD-Forum as well.

http://www.dvdforum.org/about-memberlist.htm

Both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD use the H.264 codec. One can author HD-DVD content via Apple’s DVD Studio Pro, today.
http://www.apple.com/finalcutstudio/dvdstudiopro/
http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2004/jun/23quicktime.html

It might be possible that Apple will let customers select between the two new standards, in the form of selecting either a BD drive or an HD-DVD drive. Either way, no matter what format Apple goes with, the HDMI/HDCP format will very likely be adopted in the process. :)

LaMerVipere
Nov 5, 2005, 09:47 PM
Am I the only one not a fan of the built-in iSight?

Ya can't move it. Where's the convenience in that? And how many people with iSights actually have them always attached to the top of their display? I sure didn't, when I had one. So if you want to move it, you have to buy one anyway.

I'd rather they lose the built-in iSight and lower the price by $100 or so.

ZorPrime
Nov 5, 2005, 09:59 PM
thats what ive been wondering about. I know they support Blue-Ray and Blue-Ray is coming out via PS3 during springish so when are the players gonna come out too? hhmmm

Blu-Ray's already here. :) If you have a PSP, you're using Blu-Ray. BD-recorders have been around for a while (at least in Japan). The only problem is that they're still pretty expensive but it looks like the price will be low enough by next year to be viable in the consumer PC market.

I have a feeling the BD players will hit the market sometime Q1 2006. Panasonic's planning on releasing BD laptops spring 2006. No solid price tag quotes though...

http://laptops.engadget.com/entry/1234000710062178
http://www.computerworld.com/printthis/2004/0,4814,97559,00.html
(sorry i wasn't able to find a newer link) :o

ZorPrime
Nov 5, 2005, 10:06 PM
Am I the only one not a fan of the built-in iSight?

Ya can't move it. Where's the convenience in that? And how many people with iSights actually have them always attached to the top of their display? I sure didn't, when I had one. So if you want to move it, you have to buy one anyway.

I'd rather they lose the built-in iSight and lower the price by $100 or so.

I feel the same way. Also, I don't like the idea of some stationary camera that's one step/hack away from being controlled remotely staring at me... would if iTunes 8 or something detects pirated songs or software... is it going to snap a picture and then send it to the authorities? it's a little too Orwellian for me. (sips his eighth cup of coffee) :eek:

Val-kyrie
Nov 5, 2005, 10:21 PM
How about making a practical and beautiful laptop out of the 12" or 13" models. I would like one with 6+ hours of real life use, and I think it is totally possible w/ today's technology. We can eliminate the CD/DVD drive which will free up lots of space for a larger battery.

I am SURE it is more portable to carry around an external drive, right?

Lets also eliminate the modem port, I mean who uses this anymore. While we are at it, eliminate the ethernet port. There are so many hotspots now, I can't imagine needing one.

I am so tired of the condescending attitude toward users who do not have high-speed access. A modem port is essential, and last stat I saw, there were at least 40% of the US population who have NO ABILITY to access high-speed.

Eliminate the ethernet port? Do you care about security? Wired LANs are much more secure than wireless. Moreover, there are places where there are so many wireless frequencies in use that it is difficult to maintain a connection.


We can also elimnate firewire ports and just have two or three USB2 ports. That is it; just three USB2 and a video out port. That is all we need.

My camcorder is firewire only, not USB. Also, firewire is faster on some external HDDs for those who use them for backup or for video editing. I would prefer to keep firewire, thanks.

I like to use a laptop like a cell phone i.e. I don't want to plug it in during the day. I guess I just hate see Dell's laptop at meetings where the owner says, "oops, I have to plug my laptop in before it runs out of juice." Yeah 10 minute into the meeting:D . This happens all the time. It is very comical!

So would I. Wait for Merom.

I don't need the speed to do number crunching simulation. All I need is a snappy OSX that will run Office and Safari well.

Good for you.

Then why don't you just buy a tablet?

Back to you, mate.

thejadedmonkey
Nov 5, 2005, 10:25 PM
I would not want an isight. Perhaps an attatchable one that can sit on the top of the screen and is smaller than the current isight, but to have one that's always there, always accessable...besides beign a security risk, it would drain battery power!

I would kill for a battery that lasted all day long (6+ hours). My current laptop only had a 1 hour battery (but it's a 14" that's under 5 lbs) and it drives me crazy.

P.S. a 1.4 ghz Pentium M boots up OS X86 faster than a Mac mini.

Val-kyrie
Nov 5, 2005, 10:43 PM
By the way there has been much talk aobut Yonah in the iBook. Is it to crazy to think that maybe Apple will go with Dothan here. Yeah the chip is a bit old, but it is a proven piece of hardware. It is probably a matter of time frames and availability.

Dave

I must have missed a lot of discussion recently. Anyway, I will be looking to buy an Intel iBook and I really do not want to buy a Dothan processor. I'd rather not buy until Merom is released but that may be too far off. Thinking about this has raised a question for me though--will the new Merom chips offer good 64 bit performance in portables without 4GBs of RAM??? Anyone know or have an opinion? Aiden Shaw? The new Intel chipsets for Yonah will support 4GB of RAM, but I can't imagine the price for it!

iEdd
Nov 5, 2005, 10:46 PM
The iSight might not be so bad if they added a physical on/off switch onto the top of it. Like a little tiny switch. Just a thought...

bommai
Nov 5, 2005, 10:47 PM
Blu-Ray's already here. :) If you have a PSP, you're using Blu-Ray. BD-recorders have been around for a while (at least in Japan). The only problem is that they're still pretty expensive but it looks like the price will be low enough by next year to be viable in the consumer PC market.

I have a feeling the BD players will hit the market sometime Q1 2006. Panasonic's planning on releasing BD laptops spring 2006. No solid price tag quotes though...

http://laptops.engadget.com/entry/1234000710062178
http://www.computerworld.com/printthis/2004/0,4814,97559,00.html
(sorry i wasn't able to find a newer link) :o

PSP uses UMD (universal media disk) not Bluray. Bluray devices are not yet out at least in large scale.

AndrewMT
Nov 5, 2005, 10:47 PM
No it doesn't they didn't cut any corners making the nano small!

I agree with you on the iPod Nano, but then again we won't see that kind of fundamental technology shift (from hard drives to NAND flash memory for storage) in Apple's laptops. Decreasing the size of the powerbook could result in a smaller battery and/or less powerful, but energy effieient components.

I just don't want Apple to skimp on the new Intel Powerbook's graphics card. The 15" and 17" powerbooks should be able to support something similar to the PC laptop's Nvidia Gefore 7800 GTX Go with 256mb of memory.

If you could dual boot into Windows on an powerful, full featured Apple Powerbook, just think how many hardcore gamers (who prefer Apple for non-gaming apps, but are forced to use Windows to play most of their games) would finally be able to ditch their PC forever?

aristobrat
Nov 5, 2005, 10:51 PM
Many companies won't let a device with a camera into sensitive areas (even if it can be turned off), so I'd guess that Apple would make the iSight an option.

1984
Nov 5, 2005, 10:51 PM
I can't believe this thread is this long and it's based on AppleInsider.com, a notoriously bad "rumor" site. If ThinkSecret ran a piece I could understand, but AppleInsider? C'mon people, move along, nothing to see here.


You must have just returned from a deep space mission or something. Appleinsider is king of the hill now and has been for quite some time. ThinkSecret has fallen from grace. They rarely post anything anymore and when they do they get it almost completely wrong. They then revise their reports over and over until the night before an announcement at which point they have done a 180 on their original position. Welcome back to planet Earth space cowboy.

1984
Nov 5, 2005, 10:56 PM
And, it has a 3X optical zoom. The camera is only 14.7 mm at it's thickest point (where the lens is).


Actually that is just the first lens element and prisim which reflects the image down to the rest of the lens assembly. The lens assembly is actually an inch or two in length. Think periscope.

1984
Nov 5, 2005, 10:59 PM
I hope they use Blu-Ray too and it does look likely they might ship Blu-Ray. :)

HD-DVD is a dead end. Virtually every manufacturer in existence is producing Blu-Ray drives. Panasonic (Apple's favorite OEM supplier for their drives) has a slot-loading Blu-Ray model that handles all other recordable CD and DVD media including DL support.

Val-kyrie
Nov 5, 2005, 11:01 PM
Yeah but that's because Apple are trying to encourage people to use USB 2.0. I haven't got USb 2.0 but I guess it's time to upgrade soon anyway.

Isn't USB 2.0 faster than firewire now?

Not really, though I have read specs of a USB 2.0 external HDD outperforming one with Firewire; I have read the reverse, as well. Firewire, in general, is faster.

Apple were quick to get rid off floppy/zip drives because they realised alot of people were on the internet nowadays.

Apple got rid of floppies because there were CD burners available. There is still a use for floppies in the PC world, sometimes a necessity for floppies; though USB sticks are starting to replace them in terms of purpose.

Now they will get rid of modems in the entire mac range because most people are using broadband, and if they aren't they should be.
I'm not bothered with that it'll give people a reason to leave dial up behind.

Ok, this comment is just ignorant. "Should be"? What if people don't have access to broadband because there is no service in their area? I live in the countryside and I don't have any possible access; my brother lives in the city and he doesn't have any possible access either. The companies refuse to pay to run high-speed infrastructure to where he lives--and no, he doesn't live in the slums.

In 3 years maybe they everything will be wireless thus creating more space.

Doubtful.

The optical media drive is here to stay, because blue ray is round the corner and digital distribution isn't everywhere yet.

Nor will it be for quite some time. BTW, this is also very contradictory. If you acknowledge that "digital distribution isn't everywhere yet" how can you also say that if people aren't using broadband, "they should be" ???