Cheney Pushes Senate for CIA Exemption

[zimv20]

link (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051105/ap_on_go_pr_wh/cheney_torture;_ylt=AvYQUUqc7wD9beVrHZIInbqs0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA2Z2szazkxBHNlYwN0bQ--)


WASHINGTON - Vice President Dick Cheney made an unusual personal appeal to Republican senators this week to allow CIA exemptions to a proposed ban on the torture of terror suspects in U.S. custody, according to participants in a closed-door session.

Cheney told his audience the United States doesn't engage in torture, these participants added, even though he said the administration needed an exemption from any legislation banning "cruel, inhuman or degrading" treatment in case the president decided one was necessary to prevent a terrorist attack.

The vice president made his comments at a regular weekly private meeting of Senate Republican senators, according to several lawmakers who attended. Cheney often attends the meetings, a chance for the rank-and-file to discuss legislative strategy, but he rarely speaks.

In this case, the room was cleared of aides before the vice president began his remarks, said by one senator to include a reference to classified material. The officials who disclosed the events spoke on condition of anonymity, citing the confidential nature of the discussion.

"The vice president's office doesn't have any comment on a private meeting with members of the Senate," Steve Schmidt, a spokesman for Cheney, said on Friday.

The vice president drew support from at least one lawmaker, Sen. Jeff Sessions (news, bio, voting record) of Alabama, while Arizona Sen. John McCain (news, bio, voting record) dissented, officials said.

McCain, who was tortured while held as a prisoner during the Vietnam War, is the chief Senate sponsor of an anti-torture provision that has twice cleared the Senate and triggered veto threats from the White House.

(more)

never thought i'd see anything like this: a sitting VP lobbying for torture. disgusting. nice ****ing "leadership."

[tristan]

I spent all day arguing that secret prisons didn't necessarily imply torture, and here he is directly advocating it. Cheney is truly the dark lord.

[pseudobrit]

Anyone else reading that straight -- "We might need to do it in the future to prevent an attack."

Bull. That means they're doing it now and don't want to stop. Or they don't plan to stop no matter what and want to avoid prosecution.

[Dont Hurt Me]

What a bunch of doubletalk and spin, I remind everyone that Cheney is another Draft dodger who is part of the deferral gang that Bush has running things. Yeah, likeTorture is in our Constitution? what a sorry old bastard.

[pseudobrit]

I can only hope that Cheney gets his exemption and is later, after things turn bizarro world, disappeared by the CIA and interrogated. Severely.

[mactastic]

Again, it is extremely telling that the one Senator who has faced torture is against the US using torture in any way.

[IJ Reilly]

Though many of us knew their position on torture already, in my wildest imagination I could not have predicted that anyone in this administration would go publicly on the record as being in favor of it. Could they really be this tone-deaf? Or is Cheney just wobbling off into outer space now that he's lost his right-hand guy? Amazing!

[zimv20]

Though many of us knew their position on torture already, in my wildest imagination I could not have predicted that anyone in this administration would go publicly on the record as being in favor of it.
indeed. so much of this game is reading between the lines, which is where i think a lot of disagreement on this board comes from, and suddenly it's spelled out plainly.

reading it made me feel like kaffee when jessep says he gave the order for a code red.

and, boy, would i like to see kevin bacon tell dick cheney he's under arrest. :-)

[IJ Reilly]

Sorry, I don't get that reference. Must be to a movie I haven't seen. ;)

Cheney's position left me completely agape. At this point I don't know how the administration can continue to make the case that their policies are in no way responsible for the torture of prisoners in Iraq. All of the dots are connected now.

[toontra]

indeed. so much of this game is reading between the lines, which is where i think a lot of disagreement on this board comes from, and suddenly it's spelled out plainly.


Exactly. When there is any doubt about the morality of the current US policy, if you suspect the worst you are likely to subsequently be proved right.

Just look at the other current threads "blast from the past" and "secret prisons". Read it and weep.

People like tristan give them the benefit of the doubt and have the rug pulled out from under their feet!

As has been said, this is as close as we'll get to an admission that, as some have suggested all along, the US (under the DIRECT INSTRUCTION of Cheney and Rumsfeld) have been, and are currently, involved in lawless incarceration and torture, AGAINST THE ADVICE of top current military generals, ex-heads of the CIA and almost the whole of the rest of the world.

[Sayhey]

Sorry, I don't get that reference. Must be to a movie I haven't seen. ;)

Cheney's position left me completely agape. At this point I don't know how the administration can continue to make the case that their policies are in no way responsible for the torture of prisoners in Iraq. All of the dots are connected now.

Try this Nicholson (http://imdb.com/title/tt0104257/) classic with the memorable line "you can't handle the truth!" Oh sorry, didn't see the winking smiley.

[IJ Reilly]

Try this Nicholson (http://imdb.com/title/tt0104257/) classic with the memorable line "you can't handle the truth!" Oh sorry, didn't see the winking smiley.

I have seen that one... but it's been awhile.

[3rdpath]

I'm really trying hard to understand Cheney's motivation for going public with the torture exemption. Maybe he's hoping for something to retroactively protect his and Rummy's asses? I don't know...but it surely seems like amazingly poor timing considering the state of the war and this administration 's horrid poll numbers.

Maybe he just figures "WTF"...he's not running for anything after this term so why try to take the moral high ground when it's truly not his ethical persuasion. If that's the case, I expect to see him on CNN screaming "NUKE 'EM, NUKE 'EM ALL" in the near future.

[.Andy]

I'm really trying hard to understand Cheney's motivation for going public with the torture exemption (snip) I don't know...but it surely seems like amazingly poor timing considering the state of the war and this administration 's horrid poll numbers.
Maybe it's unfortunately just a measured tactic to gain popularity for a flailing administration? As long as they provide the perception of taking a hardline to protect America's freedoms from mythical waves of terrusts....

[Sayhey]

I'm really trying hard to understand Cheney's motivation for going public with the torture exemption.

It's just my opinion, but I'm convinced these guys, by which I mean the neocons, are dyed-in-the-wool true believers. Not of a religious bent, but in the order of ideologues who have been swept down into their own personal rabbit hole and see the world in ways only modern day Alices could. They BELIEVED the Iraqi people would meet us with flowers! They BELIEVED they could remake the Middle East with a show of US military power. They BELIEVE that no treaties or international institutions should be able to curb their actions. And the sad, sad thing is they still BELIEVE in all of it.

A question for tristan. Sauron, Voldemort, or perhps a Sith Lord? Or are we talking biblical references here?:eek:

[solvs]

I spent all day arguing that secret prisons didn't necessarily imply torture, and here he is directly advocating it. Cheney is truly the dark lord.
And this is why we were arguing with you. Because it is a slippery slope. You meant well enough though.

Am I the only one who isn't really that shocked at all?

[tristan]

Well, I still think its a war of information (see the arrests in Australia today) but yes, I definitely don't like the idea of Cheney's goons manipulating that information and using it to torture people (see the U.S. servicemen arrests in Iraq today). So maybe you guys were right to oppose secret prisons based primarily on the administration not being able to handle the human rights responsibility that comes with imprisonment.

[skunk]

The Road to Damascus is increasingly well-trodden.

[Sayhey]

The Road to Damascus is increasingly well-trodden.

Unfortunately, for both the US and British governments, that phrase has a far too literal meaning than the biblical reference.

[tristan]

Sorry, didn't know I was persecuting you guys. :-)

[skunk]

Unfortunately, for both the US and British governments, that phrase has a far too literal meaning than the biblical reference.Yes, quite nicely loaded, I thought.
:)

[solvs]

So maybe you guys were right to oppose secret prisons based primarily on the administration not being able to handle the human rights responsibility that comes with imprisonment.
Yeah, that's pretty much it.

[mactastic]

So maybe you guys were right to oppose secret prisons based primarily on the administration not being able to handle the human rights responsibility that comes with imprisonment.
When has the government (under either party) proven themselves able to handle responsibility without accountability?

[Sayhey]

When has the government (under either party) proven themselves able to handle responsibility without accountability?

Well, there was that week in 1942 when FDR was ... well ... heck, NEVER!
;)