PDA

View Full Version : If iOS updates are free shouldn't OS X's be as well?


dba415
Jun 14, 2013, 09:59 PM
If Apple are releasing iOS updates, which contain a lot of new features which are sometimes drastic, for free for iPad and iPod Touch, then why shouldn't OSX Mavericks also be free?

DarkRyoushii
Jun 14, 2013, 10:03 PM
Don't say that, they'll say hey you're right! iOS updates should cost money too!

Twimfy
Jun 14, 2013, 10:31 PM
If Apple are releasing iOS updates, which contain a lot of new features which are sometimes drastic, for free for iPad and iPod Touch, then why shouldn't OSX Mavericks also be free?

Attachment rates.

People will hold onto a Mac for years but are likely to change their iPhone quite frequently.

Charging for OS X updates is probably a way of generating revenue from older systems. They don't need to worry about this so much with iOS as the device attachment rate is lower.

Once upon a time they did used to charge for iOS updates. I think version 2 and 3 cost money on the iTouch, I remember paying.

benwiggy
Jun 15, 2013, 04:19 AM
As much as the free software movement has been a good thing, it has encouraged an attitude of "entitlement" , whereby people now EXPECT software to be free and begrudge having to pay for it.
Witness the many posts that start "Can you recommend some software that performs a vital tasks for me -- oh, but I don't want to pay for it".

You should expect to pay for new software that provides new capabilities. Anything you get for free is a luxury and a bonus.

Not pointing fingers, just making a general observation. :D

Apple is a business, and they can charge whether they think will yield the highest margin. A new OS is $19.99...!!! That's an incredibly low price for what you get.

ct2k7
Jun 15, 2013, 07:26 AM
Some might argue GAAP / SOX Compliance/Act.

view2darrel
Jun 15, 2013, 07:55 AM
how about android update and windows 7 to 8 update. :) think...

Ganesha
Jun 15, 2013, 07:58 AM
Some might argue GAAP / SOX Compliance/Act.

Apple has themselves covered. The following has been included in all recent quarterly statements.

For sales of qualifying versions of iOS devices, Mac and Apple TV, the Company has indicated it may from time to time provide future unspecified software upgrades and features free of charge to customers.

For the last few versions of OS X 'Qualifying versions' meant all Macs sold after a certain date (up-to-Date program). However, this sentence gives them sufficient cover to make it free.

ThisIsNotMe
Jun 15, 2013, 10:47 AM
An iPhone is a consumer electronics device.
An iMac is a computer.

Two very different industries.

robanga
Jun 15, 2013, 10:55 AM
A big reason there are differences is accounting issues.

You have to withhold revenue reporting whenever you promise future software functionality on tech. This has been true for some time.

Every public company has to decide on a product by product basis, which software updates will be free, and then you often can only claim revenue amortized over the "life" of a device. This could be 24 months for a phone. Its kind of like treating hardware as a subscription service.

When you ship a computer and then charge for future updates, you can often claim it is "done" and claim 100% of the revenue from the day it ships.

This is part of the complexity that SOX has left us.

ValSalva
Jun 15, 2013, 11:29 AM
An iPhone is a consumer electronics device.
An iMac is a computer.

Two very different industries.

True. It's great that Apple doesn't charge for iOS updates. It makes life easier for developers because the vast majority of people upgrade to the most recent version of iOS.

The Mac is more mature. It doesn't matter as much if not everyone is using the latest Mac OS as it does for iOS.

travisbrowning
Jun 15, 2013, 01:26 PM
I'm going to say the App Store plays a huge role in the pricing scheme for the OS. Apple makes huge revenue off the App Store for iOS, its easier to price the OS lower (free). If I recall correctly, Mac App Store came out with Snow Leopard, which is right around the time we saw the pretty big price drops on Mac OSX. I think Apple has realized thats the easiest way to beat piracy, is to make it easy to buy and cheap, we saw huge price drops on Logic, Final Cut and Aperture when they hit the app store.



This is all speculation, I drank a lot last night, I haven't had my coffee. I may have some facts wrong.

emori
Jun 15, 2013, 01:44 PM
Apple used to charge for iOS update on iPods...

Michaelgtrusa
Jun 15, 2013, 02:41 PM
Greed is paramout.

Bear
Jun 15, 2013, 05:44 PM
As much as the free software movement has been a good thing, it has encouraged an attitude of "entitlement" , whereby people now EXPECT software to be free and begrudge having to pay for it.
Witness the many posts that start "Can you recommend some software that performs a vital tasks for me -- oh, but I don't want to pay for it".

You should expect to pay for new software that provides new capabilities. Anything you get for free is a luxury and a bonus.

Not pointing fingers, just making a general observation. :D

Apple is a business, and they can charge whether they think will yield the highest margin. A new OS is $19.99...!!! That's an incredibly low price for what you get.You make some good points. From my point of view, software should be reasonably priced. I think most Adobe products have gone beyond reasonable priced. OS X upgrades are more than reasonably priced.

Lolito
Jun 15, 2013, 08:41 PM
Im sure we pay for the OS when buying the machine. OSX is far more expensive than 20$. I would say the 20$ is an update price, as they don't sell macs without OS.

Should be free? Well, right now, for those who want, they could pirate it so easily, but that is ilegal. so yes, it should be, not free, just free to update let's say.

benwiggy
Jun 16, 2013, 01:55 AM
Should be free? Well, right now, for those who want, they could pirate it so easily, but that is ilegal. so yes, it should be, not free, just free to update let's say.
Are you saying it should be free, or not? :confused:
As already said, the true price of OS X is included in your hardware purchase. Point updates are free; new versions you have to pay a tiny amount.

Leaving to one side the fact that Apple has more money than God: writing software costs money. People are paid salaries; they require offices, watercoolers, stationery, computers, teabags, etc to do their job.

I personally don't want to live in a world where software development, literature, poetry, music, etc, etc, is all done as a hobby by amateurs in their spare time, because there are no jobs doing those things, because no one believes they should pay for them.

You want what someone else has done: you pay for it.

Lolito
Jun 16, 2013, 02:00 PM
I like the current system:

Pay if you want, or pirate it if you want.

Oridus
Jun 17, 2013, 03:04 AM
I personally have no qualms in paying $20 for an OS update.... Unlike the $100-$200 for windows

maflynn
Jun 17, 2013, 06:01 AM
iOS updates are free because Apple is able to right off the cost as it considers the iPhone a subscription based sale.

They cannot do so with OSX, additionally updates to OSX are free, you only have to pay for point upgrades, i.e., 10.x

Finally since apple dropped the price of OSX from 125 to 20 (and probably 30 in Maverick's case) why are so many people whining about paying 30 dollars for a modern solid operating system. Consider what Microsoft charges for their upgrades, night and day.

If anyone is unwilling to upgrade (and its their right) then no one is holding a gun to their head. Just don't upgrade.

Andy-V
Jun 17, 2013, 10:54 AM
With the very minor upgrades each release has, it would be nice if Apple gave something like 2 years of free OS X upgrades with every new mac purchase.

benwiggy
Jun 17, 2013, 11:12 AM
Pay if you want, or pirate it if you want.
If anyone downloads a pirated version of an OS, they are a fool, as well as a sponge on everyone else.

By definition, such sources are not trustworthy, and the OS installer package could well have been modified with malware.

If someone really thinks they need/want the software, but aren't prepared to pay $20: I wonder what they would pay $20 for?
And what they would expect to be paid for what they do?

HenryDJP
Jun 17, 2013, 11:15 AM
I cannot believe the multiple threads here with people expecting OS X upgrades to be free. :rolleyes:. iOS generates revenue 24/7 with customers paying monthly recurring charges to their iPhone carriers which Apple gets a piece of plus more people are buying iPhones at a constant then they are buying new Macs. Only the world of geeks are consistently buying a new Mac every year.
And thanks to the Hackintosh community I wouldn't be surprised if Apple ever gives OS X for free. I mean, why should the company give a free OS upgrade to people who don't even buy Macs?

Lolito
Jun 17, 2013, 08:43 PM
I cannot believe the multiple threads here with people expecting OS X upgrades to be free. :rolleyes:. iOS generates revenue 24/7 with customers paying monthly recurring charges to their iPhone carriers which Apple gets a piece of plus more people are buying iPhones at a constant then they are buying new Macs. Only the world of geeks are consistently buying a new Mac every year.
And thanks to the Hackintosh community I wouldn't be surprised if Apple ever gives OS X for free. I mean, why should the company give a free OS upgrade to people who don't even buy Macs?

That was truly funny: so u really think hackintosh user buy osx???? LOL!!!

HenryDJP
Jun 17, 2013, 09:15 PM
That was truly funny: so u really think hackintosh user buy osx???? LOL!!!

You completely misunderstood my post 100%.

Mr. Retrofire
Jun 17, 2013, 10:40 PM
That was truly funny: so u really think hackintosh user buy osx???? LOL!!!
Yes. At least many people on insanelymac.com do it.

HarryAinslie
Jun 21, 2013, 03:12 AM
TBH, i don't mind paying just under 15 for a whole new operating system!

I'm pretty sure you will, just like me, get your money's worth of usage out of it!

nutmac
Jun 21, 2013, 12:56 PM
At only $20 (USD), Apple is practically giving it away. I personally wouldn't mind OS X subscription plan ($100/year) that includes 25 GB iCloud storage ($40/year value), OS X ($20), OS X Server, and all under $100 OS X apps (Apple Remote Desktop, Aperture, Compressor, GarageBand, iMovie, iPhoto, Keynote, MainStage, Motion, Numbers, Pages).

shenan1982
Jun 21, 2013, 06:33 PM
10.8.1 to 10.8.2 is an update, and it's free.

10.8 to 10.9 is not an update, it's a totally new OS.

Gregintosh
Jun 23, 2013, 10:37 AM
I think updates should be free from now on and encourage people to have the latest. Plus, not that many changes these days. I installed mavericks and couldn't tell the difference other than the crashes from it being a beta. The other changes were super minor.

Plus, a lot of the "updates" are just apps which apple could as easily distribute through the App Store (like Maps and iBooks).

I think they didn't announce the price at the conference because they are debating if they should make it free or not.

Plus, unlike older days when the hardware and OS upgrades were the only revenue centers, these days Apple makes a ton from their 30% cut of app, movie, and iTunes sales. Buy $100 worth of apps throughout the year and Apple already made their $30. (Granted its not all profit since they pay the system maintenance but you get the point).

Liquinn
Jun 23, 2013, 11:15 AM
I think updates should be free from now on and encourage people to have the latest. Plus, not that many changes these days. I installed mavericks and couldn't tell the difference other than the crashes from it being a beta. The other changes were super minor.

Plus, a lot of the "updates" are just apps which apple could as easily distribute through the App Store (like Maps and iBooks).

I think they didn't announce the price at the conference because they are debating if they should make it free or not.

Plus, unlike older days when the hardware and OS upgrades were the only revenue centers, these days Apple makes a ton from their 30% cut of app, movie, and iTunes sales. Buy $100 worth of apps throughout the year and Apple already made their $30. (Granted its not all profit since they pay the system maintenance but you get the point).
I'm still running Lion on my Macs apart from my G5. I'll probably wait for 10.10/10.11 to upgrade my OS. :)

HenryDJP
Jun 23, 2013, 01:21 PM
I think updates should be free from now on and encourage people to have the latest. Plus, not that many changes these days. I installed mavericks and couldn't tell the difference other than the crashes from it being a beta. The other changes were super minor.

Plus, a lot of the "updates" are just apps which apple could as easily distribute through the App Store (like Maps and iBooks).

I think they didn't announce the price at the conference because they are debating if they should make it free or not.

Plus, unlike older days when the hardware and OS upgrades were the only revenue centers, these days Apple makes a ton from their 30% cut of app, movie, and iTunes sales. Buy $100 worth of apps throughout the year and Apple already made their $30. (Granted its not all profit since they pay the system maintenance but you get the point).

In other words, people shouldn't be paid for the work they do, according to you. :p

Gregintosh
Jun 23, 2013, 04:21 PM
In other words, people shouldn't be paid for the work they do, according to you. :p

That's silly talk. The money for the programmers and developers who work at Apple comes from Apple, which in turn earns that money from many sources. It is silly to think that they must charge for every output individually.

In mant companies, The salesman is the one who brings in the money at a company, even though a company employs accountants, front desk, janitors, etc. none of whom charge clients for what they do. Their salary comes from the company as a whole being successful.

Hotels often give away toothbrushes and other toiletries free of charge when you buy the rooms. Someone has to pay for those too, but yet the hotel doesn't charge for them individually. Blu Ray player makers often put out updates to their devices without charging extra either. There's many other examples of how companies do things for free to delight their customers, with those efforts being paid for by past revenue or higher future revenues from repeat business or other indirect sources.

Just like at Apple, good programming work along with free updates would keep customer satisfaction high, and the cost of providing it would be paid partially from the hardware being sold and also from commissions from the App Store/iTunes ecosystems - which is a huge source of revenue that didn't exist just a few years ago when Apple used to charge $129 for an OS update.

The iOS ecosystem already does that. Mac OS X can too. Accounting tricks are just that, it would be just as easy for Apple to start deferring revenue from their computers and saying its "subscriptions" just as easily as they do for iOS devices.

With every iteration of Mac OS, previous generations stop getting support and updates anyway (or get crippled updates only which lack many features -- often it seems arbitrarily as through hacks people can enable those features) so in a way a purchase of a Mac computer is only really good for a few years anyway. Through this quicker "forced" upgrade process, Apple will continue to keep revenues high from loyal users, and something as simple as free OS updates (even for major upgrades) helps build the loyalty that keeps the money coming.

A Hebrew
Jun 24, 2013, 01:13 AM
I think the big thing for Apple's decision on charging for OSX but not iOS is the fact that they rely so much on iOS hardware revenue that they want nothing to get in the way of it. Get people locked into the idea of updating always and once their device gets 'out dated' in 2-4 years they need new hardware.

Meyvn
Jun 24, 2013, 05:01 AM
I think the big thing for Apple's decision on charging for OSX but not iOS is the fact that they rely so much on iOS hardware revenue that they want nothing to get in the way of it. Get people locked into the idea of updating always and once their device gets 'out dated' in 2-4 years they need new hardware.

They want nothing to get in the way of it, true enough. It's also the case that Apple knows people typically keep their mobile devices for a shorter (or much shorter) period of time than they keep their PCs. PCs are also a shrinking market rather than a growing one, and Apple has settled into their role in the PC market, so I think they're more aggressive about growing in mobile, both in total numbers user base (which they've been steadily doing) and in market share (which they're hungry for more of). And, as we've often seen, Apple likes to lord their comparative lack of OS-version fragmentation over Android. Charging for iOS updates going forward (on iPhones at least) would take that selling point away from them.

The way the (US especially) smartphone market is structured allows Apple to bring in higher margins, too. So that helps defray development costs. With OS X I suspect Apple charged for Lion and ML because they just didn't want to leave money on the table. That being said, I still wouldn't be surprised to see Mavericks come down even further in price, or shift to free. It would serve as a competitive advantage, as MS cannot give away Windows*.

*Though it would be interesting to see, if Apple does this: what if Samsung, or some other Wintel PC manufacturer, follows suit and pay for Windows upgrades on their users' behalf as a selling point?

dba415
Oct 22, 2013, 07:09 PM
I guess I called it.