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View Full Version : [Resolved] Goodbye DVDs, Hello HD playback! (Almost..)




cheekypaul
Jun 17, 2013, 06:56 AM
hi all moving picture people... (or maybe i should post to digital video?)

i've finally had enough of boxes of dvd's and shelving and actual things to hold, i want to put my dvds onto a hard drive(s) and access them that way. i'm not a technophobe, so involved answers are fine, but i'm not looking for a complicated or involved solution.

what i want to do is copy my bought dvds to a hard drive and plug up the drive to my computer whenever i want to watch anything. the process does not have to be apple-centric, but obviously it might be in my favour, or maybe not. what it does have to be is SIMPLE. by that i mean, in my words, copy the dvd (the fastest, easiest way) to the hard drive, and be able to watch it, with menus, another time.

i understand you might want to recommend i compress the rip/copy in some way, this isn't my thinking as i have read many tales of woe from people taking this route. if enough of you insist it's better that way, then i'll do it that way.

perhaps i need not look no further than here (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=805573), the sticky on automating back ups?

two more things, is there such a thing as ripping video lossless, like for audio?
and, i have a spare mac mini lying around.

ps. hard drive space is not a problem, i have lots.



HobeSoundDarryl
Jun 17, 2013, 08:48 AM
If DVDs is the goal, Handbrake is a fairly easy tool.

If lossless is the goal, MakeMKV is your tool, but if you want to use an :apple:TV to play those videos on your TV, you'll need to convert the videos to the format :apple:TV wants (which is where Handbrake comes in).

MakeMKV + Handbrake is probably the answer for you.

Of course, if you want "HD playback", you're not going to get that through converting DVDs. Yes, converted DVDs will play back on an HD screen but the video will be limited to DVD quality (which is SD). Upscaling is not the same as native HD video.

HD quality is Blu Ray territory for which the same two tools can apply. File sizes are a lot larger for these files so be sure to think big storage if you have a lot of HD video to convert- especially if you are chasing "lossless" quality levels which could come in at 20-35GB or more each on average (as opposed to DVD "lossless" which might come in at 4-8GB on average). If you can back off of the "lossless" goal (to the "I can't really see the difference" goal), Handbrake can yield about 1-3GB SD movies and 4-20GB HD movies without much visual compromise.

QWERTYMac7
Jun 17, 2013, 08:56 AM
FWIW:
I have had 6500 songs in my iTunes library for many years, and decided to add my 400 DVD/BD movies to iTunes and play them via Apple TV.

Very happy with the outcome. No more previews - just play the movie you wish to watch...

Handbrake is your free friend for encoding to MP4. Handbrake can process a DVD without any other steps.

Blu-ray's on the other hand need to be turned into MKV files - MakeMKV is another free friend for you.

My process for both DVD's and Blu-ray's is this:

Use Make MKV - to create a large MKV file, then process the MKV file into MP4 via Handbrake. Both can be working at the same time, though Handbrake is slower...I just add the next MKV file or two to Handbrakes que.

It's easy, and a quick search on this forum will yield you lot's of information.

Good luck!

rlu929s
Jun 17, 2013, 09:03 AM
As someone who didn't want to go overboard myself I went in 2 main phases.

My Current Setup:
3 x ATV 3's
iTunes 11 running on a Win 64 Machine. Entire media library is stored on a 2TB SATA drive.
1 x external 3TB USB 3.0 external HD for backup using Vice Versa software. Note: I actually have 2 of these and every couple of months I'll move the current to my vault at a local bank as it's my off-site backup.
Started with DVDRW drive and added external BR Burner.

Software:
MAKEMKV & Handbrake
MetaX for tagging


I started with my only burner at the time which was DVD. I left all my blurays and worked on my collections of almost 200 DVD discs. It took several month of ripping the files using MKV and ecoding using Handbrake. Note: You can queue up a ton of movies and leave for work and they will be done when you get home.

After that I would tag all the details using MetaX. Usually would look for new cover art online.

After the DVD discs were done I moved forward with BR by adding a external reader via USB.

My discs are now in a folder stored in the closet with all the cases thrown away and I can watch any movie on any of my 3 TV's.

The further simplify I've moved to just buying my movies off iTunes rather than even messing with ripping. Some would avoid this as it does tie you to Apple, but I'm ok with it. I simply buy a movie in the morning and by the time I'm home it's downloaded and in my library.

Hope that helps.

It's very doable with limited amount of money.

EmpyreanUK
Jun 17, 2013, 09:08 AM
hi all moving picture people... (or maybe i should post to digital video?)

i've finally had enough of boxes of dvd's and shelving and actual things to hold, i want to put my dvds onto a hard drive(s) and access them that way. i'm not a technophobe, so involved answers are fine, but i'm not looking for a complicated or involved solution.

what i want to do is copy my bought dvds to a hard drive and plug up the drive to my computer whenever i want to watch anything. the process does not have to be apple-centric, but obviously it might be in my favour, or maybe not. what it does have to be is SIMPLE. by that i mean, in my words, copy the dvd (the fastest, easiest way) to the hard drive, and be able to watch it, with menus, another time.

i understand you might want to recommend i compress the rip/copy in some way, this isn't my thinking as i have read many tales of woe from people taking this route. if enough of you insist it's better that way, then i'll do it that way.

perhaps i need not look no further than here (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=805573), the sticky on automating back ups?

two more things, is there such a thing as ripping video lossless, like for audio?
and, i have a spare mac mini lying around.

ps. hard drive space is not a problem, i have lots.

If you want menus, then as far as I'm aware your only option is to use complete DVD rips. Out of all of the available approaches, this will use up the most hard drive space (which you say isn't a problem), but will yield a 'lossless' copy of the DVD and will preserve menus and extra features and the like. It's also the most straight-forward approach.

To rip your DVDs you'll need a an application that will just copy what's on the disc and then save it to your hard drive as a kind of 'virtual' DVD. By virtual, I mean that it literally copies the contents of the DVD onto your hard disc —*nothing is altered or removed (apart from copy protection), and all that changes is that the data is on your hard disc as opposed to the DVD.

I've used an app called RipIt with great success over the years. It needs a license which you have to pay for, but it's pretty inexpensive (I think I paid $20), and when you consider the amount of space you'll save in your living room, it probably amounts to the cheapest $/square foot of living space that you'll ever buy :P

RipIt hasn't been updated in a while (I think the last update was 2011), but it still works well, and runs on Mountain Lion. The process for copying your DVDs is simple: you insert the disc into the drive, open RipIt and click the 'Rip' button. You'll be left with either a VIDEO_TS folder or a .dvdmedia file —*these are essentially the same thing, only that the latter will open automatically with the DVD Player app that's bundled with OS X. If you're planning to use these on a Mac Mini, then that's all you'll need to do —*no transcoding or conversion will be necessary.

fa8362
Jun 17, 2013, 10:36 AM
I agree with EmpyreanUK. RipIt is a great solution. You can download it free and you get 10 DVD rips for free before you have to pay anything. Be advised that RipIt won't rip every available DVD. It will, however, rip the vast majority. When you find one it can't rip, download a free trial of a competing ripper and try that.

There's no need to use Handbrake, Make MKV, MetaX, iTunes or any of that. RipIt and similar DVD ripping products make a lossless file that you can play with the built-in DVD player app on your Mac.

cdavis11
Jun 17, 2013, 10:47 AM
When I moved from physical media to HDD storage I used a combination of RipIt and Handbrake.

MY workflow involved ripping the DVDs, then queueing them into handbrake. Pretty easy, and allowed handbrake to just do its thing without too much input from me aside from adding a new rip to the batch pool once in a while.

drsox
Jun 17, 2013, 12:32 PM
hi all moving picture people... (or maybe i should post to digital video?)

i've finally had enough of boxes of dvd's and shelving and actual things to hold, i want to put my dvds onto a hard drive(s) and access them that way. i'm not a technophobe, so involved answers are fine, but i'm not looking for a complicated or involved solution.

what i want to do is copy my bought dvds to a hard drive and plug up the drive to my computer whenever i want to watch anything. the process does not have to be apple-centric, but obviously it might be in my favour, or maybe not. what it does have to be is SIMPLE. by that i mean, in my words, copy the dvd (the fastest, easiest way) to the hard drive, and be able to watch it, with menus, another time.

i understand you might want to recommend i compress the rip/copy in some way, this isn't my thinking as i have read many tales of woe from people taking this route. if enough of you insist it's better that way, then i'll do it that way.

perhaps i need not look no further than here (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=805573), the sticky on automating back ups?

two more things, is there such a thing as ripping video lossless, like for audio?
and, i have a spare mac mini lying around.

ps. hard drive space is not a problem, i have lots.

Heretical question, but are you sure you want to build your future library around watching on a computer vs watching on a TV ?

I also have no DVD units, only a DVD drive. All my DVDs and BluRays are in a bunch of NASs (6TB total) and play though any of the 3 MediaStreamers connected to 3 TVs. 99% are encoded as .iso (the other 1% is as .mkv)

fa8362
Jun 17, 2013, 03:11 PM
Heretical question, but are you sure you want to build your future library around watching on a computer vs watching on a TV ?



???

If he hasn't already done so, all he has to do is connect his Mac to a TV or get an Apple TV or similar device.

E.Lizardo
Jun 17, 2013, 04:12 PM
hi all moving picture people... (or maybe i should post to digital video?)

i've finally had enough of boxes of dvd's and shelving and actual things to hold, i want to put my dvds onto a hard drive(s) and access them that way. i'm not a technophobe, so involved answers are fine, but i'm not looking for a complicated or involved solution.

what i want to do is copy my bought dvds to a hard drive and plug up the drive to my computer whenever i want to watch anything. the process does not have to be apple-centric, but obviously it might be in my favour, or maybe not. what it does have to be is SIMPLE. by that i mean, in my words, copy the dvd (the fastest, easiest way) to the hard drive, and be able to watch it, with menus, another time.

i understand you might want to recommend i compress the rip/copy in some way, this isn't my thinking as i have read many tales of woe from people taking this route. if enough of you insist it's better that way, then i'll do it that way.

perhaps i need not look no further than here (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=805573), the sticky on automating back ups?

two more things, is there such a thing as ripping video lossless, like for audio?
and, i have a spare mac mini lying around.

ps. hard drive space is not a problem, i have lots.

You could use ripit to create an exact disc image.Your Mac DVD player will play it just like the original DVD.Menus etc. intact.

rikscha
Jun 17, 2013, 05:15 PM
If you want menus, then as far as I'm aware your only option is to use complete DVD rips. Out of all of the available approaches, this will use up the most hard drive space (which you say isn't a problem), but will yield a 'lossless' copy of the DVD and will preserve menus and extra features and the like. It's also the most straight-forward approach.

To rip your DVDs you'll need a an application that will just copy what's on the disc and then save it to your hard drive as a kind of 'virtual' DVD. By virtual, I mean that it literally copies the contents of the DVD onto your hard disc —*nothing is altered or removed (apart from copy protection), and all that changes is that the data is on your hard disc as opposed to the DVD.

I've used an app called RipIt with great success over the years. It needs a license which you have to pay for, but it's pretty inexpensive (I think I paid $20), and when you consider the amount of space you'll save in your living room, it probably amounts to the cheapest $/square foot of living space that you'll ever buy :P

RipIt hasn't been updated in a while (I think the last update was 2011), but it still works well, and runs on Mountain Lion. The process for copying your DVDs is simple: you insert the disc into the drive, open RipIt and click the 'Rip' button. You'll be left with either a VIDEO_TS folder or a .dvdmedia file —*these are essentially the same thing, only that the latter will open automatically with the DVD Player app that's bundled with OS X. If you're planning to use these on a Mac Mini, then that's all you'll need to do —*no transcoding or conversion will be necessary.

Using ATV flash with your Apple TV allows you to watch your DVD rips on your TV, no transcoding nothing. Also, the included media player will pull all the information about your DVDs from the Internet presenting you with an automated organised movie library. Easy, straight forward the best solution in my opinion. I would reconsider ripping the complete DVD. I think that one hardly watches the extras and the convenience of just hitting the play button compared to waiting for the menu to load etc, makes this an easy choice for me.

mrmarts
Jun 17, 2013, 08:36 PM
I'am too have slowed down on buying physical media blu rays etc, because Macs no longer offer us optical drives. That said i do not want to clutter up my desk with a external optical drive, and besides it is a great way to share the movies you love with your family. I have about 60 movies. The ones i cannot get on iTunes I dubb using using RIP IT which i highly recommend as it is decodes all regions, than i use METAZ i think thats what's it called for generating cover art and the description.

EmpyreanUK
Jun 18, 2013, 02:51 AM
Using ATV flash with your Apple TV allows you to watch your DVD rips on your TV, no transcoding nothing. Also, the included media player will pull all the information about your DVDs from the Internet presenting you with an automated organised movie library. Easy, straight forward the best solution in my opinion. I would reconsider ripping the complete DVD. I think that one hardly watches the extras and the convenience of just hitting the play button compared to waiting for the menu to load etc, makes this an easy choice for me.
For my own personal needs and preferences, I'm with you 100%. I've encoded all of my DVD rips to .M4V files, with audio in the languages I want and the subtitles I want. Anything else is superfluous to me, as like you, I hardly ever use the special features. In fact, the only special feature that I ever use is (very occasionally) the director's commentary, which is anyway simply an extra audio track, which I can include in my encoded file. I also prefer to convenience of simply pressing play, instead of having to sit through admonishments against piracy and the rest.

However, the OP said he wanted to preserve the menus and special features, wanted a lossless copy and doesn't want to fuss around with encodes and the like. I'd therefore say that ripping DVDs to his hard disc as-is would be the best solution for him, as it meets all of his needs, and he has said that hard disc space is no issue. It would also mean that, if at any point in the future, he decides that he does want to encode his film collection into flat media files, he will already have the DVD rips ready and waiting.

cheekypaul
Jun 18, 2013, 06:14 AM
Phew...thx all. :)

after reading thru the responses i've become interested in losing those piracy admonishments you're forced to watch on actual DVDs, so i can either skip them or cut them out, (skipping would be fine), where does that put me?

drsox
Jun 18, 2013, 08:00 AM
Phew...thx all. :)

after reading thru the responses i've become interested in losing those piracy admonishments you're forced to watch on actual DVDs, so i can either skip them or cut them out, (skipping would be fine), where does that put me?

Some S/W allows you to remaster the DVD to just select the main title(s). I suggest you do some google-ing and just try one or two. The ones I use run in Win7, so I use them in Parallels.

----------

???

If he hasn't already done so, all he has to do is connect his Mac to a TV or get an Apple TV or similar device.

Yes, but he has to have iTunes running somewhere or keep his Mac running.

fa8362
Jun 18, 2013, 08:34 AM
Yes, but he has to have iTunes running somewhere or keep his Mac running.

He doesn't have to do any such thing. All he has to do is turn the computer on, and he doesn't need iTunes. The original poster isn't interested in doing anything except playing a movie when he feels like it. All he has to do is use RipIt to rip and use the built in DVD player app on the Mac when he wants to play one of his rips.

If his TV isn't already connected to his Mini, and he wants to watch on his TV, all he has to do is shut down, disconnect and then connect his Mini to his TV. That's less than 2 minutes.

drsox
Jun 18, 2013, 10:22 AM
He doesn't have to do any such thing. All he has to do is turn the computer on, and he doesn't need iTunes. The original poster isn't interested in doing anything except playing a movie when he feels like it. All he has to do is use RipIt to rip and use the built in DVD player app on the Mac when he wants to play one of his rips.

If his TV isn't already connected to his Mini, and he wants to watch on his TV, all he has to do is shut down, disconnect and then connect his Mini to his TV. That's less than 2 minutes.

Great. Now do that at multiple locations in a 3 story house.

EmpyreanUK
Jun 18, 2013, 10:48 AM
Great. Now do that at multiple locations in a 3 story house.

Guys, I think I can see now where the confusion is coming from —*everybody apart from drsox has been reading the standard version of the OP's post, where he simply and concisely laid out his requirements and we advised him on the basis of those requirements, without making any assumptions about his particular circumstances. Yet all this time, drsox has obviously been reading the version of the OP with the INVISIBLE WORDS explaining that he lives in a three storey house and needs to run his movie collection in multiple locations at the same time.

And to think! We've been singing from different hymn sheets all along. Oh, the egg on our faces!

fa8362
Jun 18, 2013, 10:51 AM
guys, i think i can see now where the confusion is coming from —*everybody apart from drsox has been reading the standard version of the op's post, where he simply and concisely laid out his requirements and we advised him on the basis of those requirements, without making any assumptions about his particular circumstances. Yet all this time, drsox has obviously been reading the version of the op with the invisible words explaining that he lives in a three storey house and needs to run his movie collection in multiple locations at the same time.


lol

drsox
Jun 18, 2013, 10:56 AM
hi all moving picture people... (or maybe i should post to digital video?)

i've finally had enough of boxes of dvd's and shelving and actual things to hold, i want to put my dvds onto a hard drive(s) and access them that way. i'm not a technophobe, so involved answers are fine, but i'm not looking for a complicated or involved solution.

what i want to do is copy my bought dvds to a hard drive and plug up the drive to my computer whenever i want to watch anything. the process does not have to be apple-centric, but obviously it might be in my favour, or maybe not. what it does have to be is SIMPLE. by that i mean, in my words, copy the dvd (the fastest, easiest way) to the hard drive, and be able to watch it, with menus, another time.

i understand you might want to recommend i compress the rip/copy in some way, this isn't my thinking as i have read many tales of woe from people taking this route. if enough of you insist it's better that way, then i'll do it that way.

perhaps i need not look no further than here (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=805573), the sticky on automating back ups?

two more things, is there such a thing as ripping video lossless, like for audio?
and, i have a spare mac mini lying around.

ps. hard drive space is not a problem, i have lots.

Do you want to watch your stuff at more than one location where you live, (e.g. Lounge and Bedroom) ?
And do you want to watch it on a TV as well ?

JAT
Jun 18, 2013, 11:11 AM
If his TV isn't already connected to his Mini, and he wants to watch on his TV, all he has to do is shut down, disconnect and then connect his Mini to his TV. That's less than 2 minutes.

You don't have to shut down to plug in a different monitor, it's not SCSI. Probably can have both plugged in at once, depending on your setup and which Mini. The last few years of Minis have had 2 video outs.

fa8362
Jun 18, 2013, 11:15 AM
You don't have to shut down to plug in a different monitor, it's not SCSI. Probably can have both plugged in at once, depending on your setup and which Mini. The last few years of Minis have had 2 video outs.

You have to shut down if if you have to move the Mini to where the TV is located.

JAT
Jun 18, 2013, 11:28 AM
You have to shut down if if you have to move the Mini to where the TV is located.

If that's the plan, you've failed. Buy a Roku or AppleTV.

fa8362
Jun 18, 2013, 11:29 AM
If that's the plan, you've failed. Buy a Roku or AppleTV.

Moving it is free. BTW, the original poster never even mentioned a TV. A TV was mentioned by people trying their best to overcomplicate the situation.

JAT
Jun 18, 2013, 12:16 PM
Moving it is free. BTW, the original poster never even mentioned a TV. A TV was mentioned by people trying their best to overcomplicate the situation.
Sure. Do you actually do that? I have done similar tasks, and was REALLY glad to find an inexpensive solution to end such crazyness.

But you are certainly correct about the OP's usage, he said nothing. Perhaps he will return to clarify so we can help more efficiently. Although I think you can hardly fault a person for assuming one would watch DVDs on a TV.

fa8362
Jun 18, 2013, 01:25 PM
Sure. Do you actually do that? I have done similar tasks, and was REALLY glad to find an inexpensive solution to end such crazyness.

I did it for 3 years with a 2009 Mini without issue. It took less than 2 minutes to make the switch, and it's not like I did it every day. That 2009 Mini is now permanently installed next to my TV.

But you are certainly correct about the OP's usage, he said nothing. Perhaps he will return to clarify so we can help more efficiently. Although I think you can hardly fault a person for assuming one would watch DVDs on a TV.

His original post doesn't even imply a TV:

what i want to do is copy my bought dvds to a hard drive and plug up the drive to my computer whenever i want to watch anything.

cheekypaul
Jun 18, 2013, 02:57 PM
Do you want to watch your stuff at more than one location where you live, (e.g. Lounge and Bedroom) ?
And do you want to watch it on a TV as well ?

good question.
really, sending the movies to different rooms is not something I need or want to "get into" at this point. maybe at some point in the future, years from now. I imagine the files being on one or more hard drives, which I would hook up, when I want to watch something, to the spare Mac mini or the laptop. once hooked up, I'm aware I can then plug my computer output to a tv for tv convenience. or the projector.

drsox
Jun 18, 2013, 02:59 PM
good question.
really, sending the movies to different rooms is not something I need or want to "get into" at this point. maybe at some point in the future, years from now. I imagine the files being on one or more hard drives, which I would hook up, when I want to watch something, to the spare Mac mini or the laptop. once hooked up, I'm aware I can then plug my computer output to a tv for tv convenience. or the projector.

OK then. I'll leave you to it.

cheekypaul
Jun 18, 2013, 03:40 PM
OK then. I'll leave you to it.

I see no reason why hooking up to a tv or laptop makes much difference to the major process of getting the DVDs digitised. I like your forward thinking though.

many thx for your input thus far, dr sox, appreciated.

and to all posters, very interesting.

SAIRUS
Jun 18, 2013, 04:06 PM
Just a quick question to the OP, you're fine with 5.1 surround sound?

(FYI I don't mean that in any way, I have a full theater so I notice differences between DTS-MA and 5.1, but a majority of people it makes no difference).

I'm experimenting ripping my blu-rays to an HD, and using my blu-ray player to access them via USB.

cheekypaul
Jun 18, 2013, 05:45 PM
Just a quick question to the OP, you're fine with 5.1 surround sound?

actually, i'm not interested in preserving 5.1 in the dvd backup, or any other audio, in this instance.
plain stereo (or mono if the film is old enough) is fine.

mpolarolo
Jun 18, 2013, 09:57 PM
i currently use MakeMKV for all my blu-ray ripping with my Lacie Blu-ray portable drive. Rarely use Ripit since my local Redbox has a ton of BR discs to rent. Created a hidef preset in Handbrake to give me a nice 2-3gb file that compares closely to the BR discs. Right now, i keep a copy of the videos inside my itunes library on my MBP but eventually will be purchasing a Synology NAS 5 bay drive, moving all of my BR rips there. The Synology drive allows for Airplay, all i need to do is install the app on the NAS drive and set up my ATV's to access the folder structure on the drive (i forgot to mention that the NAS drive will be connected to my Airport Xtreme). Hoping to install either 5 2tb drives or 5 3 tb drives into the NAS, this way it can handle future rips of any movies i rent as well as my Lightroom 4 (soon to upgrade to 5) catalog folder structure.

I have to say, the preset i use in Handbrake works really well with animation files, very clean and detailed. As for regular BR movies i don't see much of a loss in quality. Plays well. Eventually i'll upgrade my iphone 4 to an iphone 5s and my iPad to possibly a mini or 4th generation so i can access these higher resolution movies.

drsox
Jun 19, 2013, 04:15 AM
I see no reason why hooking up to a tv or laptop makes much difference to the major process of getting the DVDs digitised. I like your forward thinking though.

many thx for your input thus far, dr sox, appreciated.

and to all posters, very interesting.

You're welcome.

cgoodwin22
Jun 20, 2013, 08:26 AM
this thread has been helpful to me as i've started ripping my movies to mp4 to watch on my apple tv. my question is this...will the movies be in the normal 5.1 SS, DTS or whatever when it's converted to mp4?

EmpyreanUK
Jun 20, 2013, 08:35 AM
this thread has been helpful to me as i've started ripping my movies to mp4 to watch on my apple tv. my question is this...will the movies be in the normal 5.1 SS, DTS or whatever when it's converted to mp4?

It depends on your settings for the encode! Are you using Handbrake to do your encoding? And if so, are you using the Apple TV preset?

PNutts
Jun 20, 2013, 10:25 PM
I use SlySoft (http://www.slysoft.com/en/) and MediaConverter8 (http://www.arcsoft.com/mediaconverter/). IMHO they are easier to use.

cgoodwin22
Jun 21, 2013, 07:51 AM
It depends on your settings for the encode! Are you using Handbrake to do your encoding? And if so, are you using the Apple TV preset?

yes, i'm using handbrake and 'apple tv' preset. i have a few that i'm transferring that have DTS audio but i can't honestly tell the difference when i'm watching it on my home theatre. I have my receiver (Denon 1912) set for Direct output. The files are much larger with DTS...so i may just go with the apple default since the files are smaller. esp. considering that i'm not noticing a huge difference in sound quality.

GarrettL1979
Jun 21, 2013, 01:14 PM
yes, i'm using handbrake and 'apple tv' preset. i have a few that i'm transferring that have DTS audio but i can't honestly tell the difference when i'm watching it on my home theatre. I have my receiver (Denon 1912) set for Direct output. The files are much larger with DTS...so i may just go with the apple default since the files are smaller. esp. considering that i'm not noticing a huge difference in sound quality.

I think you need really nice speakers to tell a difference.

Nightarchaon
Jun 21, 2013, 03:31 PM
I thought that i could do goodbye Dvds hello HD streaming, But i went DVD to HD Streaming to BluRay for the quality, HD streaming is just still not up to scratch

mic j
Jun 21, 2013, 03:53 PM
I thought that i could do goodbye Dvds hello HD streaming, But i went DVD to HD Streaming to BluRay for the quality, HD streaming is just still not up to scratch
When you compare HD streaming to BR, aren't you really comparing 720p streaming to 1080p BR? I ask that because I see in your profile you have a 1st gen aTV which only supports 720p.

I have actually converted all of my dvd/BR's to mp4 and have since found the aTV3 streaming (1080p) to be so close in quality to BR that it's not worth the expense/time of buying the BR and converting it. So I have decided to stream almost everything, now. Will probably only buy a BR for those really special and rare classics.

GarrettL1979
Jun 21, 2013, 04:44 PM
I have actually converted all of my dvd/BR's to mp4 and have since found the aTV3 streaming (1080p) to be so close in quality to BR that it's not worth the expense/time of buying the BR and converting it. So I have decided to stream almost everything, now. Will probably only buy a BR for those really special and rare classics.

Same here.

cgoodwin22
Jun 21, 2013, 06:55 PM
same here.

+2

mic j
Jun 21, 2013, 08:03 PM
Thanks for the support!!

I thought I would be put on the rack for daring to suggest that iTunes HD streaming was "good enough". :D

phrehdd
Jun 22, 2013, 01:10 AM
When you compare HD streaming to BR, aren't you really comparing 720p streaming to 1080p BR? I ask that because I see in your profile you have a 1st gen aTV which only supports 720p.

I have actually converted all of my dvd/BR's to mp4 and have since found the aTV3 streaming (1080p) to be so close in quality to BR that it's not worth the expense/time of buying the BR and converting it. So I have decided to stream almost everything, now. Will probably only buy a BR for those really special and rare classics.

I think you are very lucky if not blessed if you can't tell the difference between a compressed file from BR material for ATV and streaming a direct m2ts or uncompressed mkv file via a streamer to a 1080p tv.

As for me, I am not so 'lucky' per se. I can quickly tell the difference between blu ray level goodness and an overly compressed 1080p file for ATV3. I prefer to stream my movies through my blu ray player itself or via XBMC on a Mac Mini with full uncompressed video and hd audio (on the Mini, the HD audio only uses the core and thus is akin to DVD and what Handbrake offers unless I opt to use Window on a Mini and XBMC within Windows).

I admit I don't understand the philosophy of taking the original, reducing it down so much and then returning it to a screen (and possibly audio system) that handles the uncompressed original. This to me is akin to having a great stereo system or headphone and insisting on taking CD quality or better music files and compressing them down to 128 bitrate. The 128 is not arbitrary here as it probably the best comparison to Handbrake for ATV3 as opposed to 320 or 256 bitrate.

Okay just my two cents and again, if you don't feel a difference you are luckier than many of us.

Nightarchaon
Jun 22, 2013, 08:34 AM
When you compare HD streaming to BR, aren't you really comparing 720p streaming to 1080p BR? I ask that because I see in your profile you have a 1st gen aTV which only supports 720p.

I have actually converted all of my dvd/BR's to mp4 and have since found the aTV3 streaming (1080p) to be so close in quality to BR that it's not worth the expense/time of buying the BR and converting it. So I have decided to stream almost everything, now. Will probably only buy a BR for those really special and rare classics.

!st gen apple TV, with the WiFi card out and a h.264 d/encoder board in its place so i can view true 1080p with no problems , sure i have to be wired to stream content, but i also can load up 140gb of 1080p movies and TV shows and take them on the road with me to remote places with shocking or no connectivity.

Im comparing 1080p content from apple (and 1080p content ripped and compressed down to 4gb ish file sizes from blu rays) to a true blu-ray experience.

I got an apple Tv3, but because its not "portable" (i.e has to be connected to either a network or internet source to work) its just no good for "movie nights round at a friends house"

AT1 i unplug with content on it, take it to friends house, plug into HDMI port and power and off i go... but for Quality, richer blacks, brighter colours and better sound, its bluray all the way at the moment

cgoodwin22
Jun 22, 2013, 11:05 AM
I think you are very lucky if not blessed if you can't tell the difference between a compressed file from BR material for ATV and streaming a direct m2ts or uncompressed mkv file via a streamer to a 1080p tv.

As for me, I am not so 'lucky' per se. I can quickly tell the difference between blu ray level goodness and an overly compressed 1080p file for ATV3. I prefer to stream my movies through my blu ray player itself or via XBMC on a Mac Mini with full uncompressed video and hd audio (on the Mini, the HD audio only uses the core and thus is akin to DVD and what Handbrake offers unless I opt to use Window on a Mini and XBMC within Windows).

I admit I don't understand the philosophy of taking the original, reducing it down so much and then returning it to a screen (and possibly audio system) that handles the uncompressed original. This to me is akin to having a great stereo system or headphone and insisting on taking CD quality or better music files and compressing them down to 128 bitrate. The 128 is not arbitrary here as it probably the best comparison to Handbrake for ATV3 as opposed to 320 or 256 bitrate.

Okay just my two cents and again, if you don't feel a difference you are luckier than many of us.

Well...i guess that makes you the true audiophile ;)

Julien
Jun 22, 2013, 12:16 PM
I think you are very lucky if not blessed if you can't tell the difference between a compressed file from BR material for ATV and streaming a direct m2ts or uncompressed mkv file via a streamer to a 1080p tv....
Just a slight correction. All video is compressed (even on BD). Streaming services just compress it more. To store an uncompressed 2 hour HD movie in 4:4:4 RGB would require over a TB.

Well...i guess that makes you the true audiophile ;)
Videophile.:D

cgoodwin22
Jun 22, 2013, 12:28 PM
Just a slight correction. All video is compressed (even on BD). Streaming services just compress it more. To store an uncompressed 2 hour HD movie in 4:4:4 RGB would require over a TB.


Videophile.:D

LOL right!

phrehdd
Jun 22, 2013, 03:48 PM
Just a slight correction. All video is compressed (even on BD). Streaming services just compress it more. To store an uncompressed 2 hour HD movie in 4:4:4 RGB would require over a TB.


Videophile.:D

We agree. However it was for the sake of discussion. I'll rephrase that a compressed copy being compressed yet again, will give inferior results when using something like Handbrake. As for the audio, DTS-Master is very close to uncompressed as it comes and in fact, is superior to most LPCM audio streams as most LPCM ratios are set lower though it is considered uncompressed. (This is the difference between something like CD quality verses a flac file that is 96/24 as opposed to 44/16 or 41/16.)

I appreciate the correction on your part.

Btw, I am neither an audio or videophile per se. I just appreciate matching input with output. If I had a tube TV or 720 flatscreen I would probably see less difference. If I used TV speakers vs AVR to higher end speakers I would notice less difference. However, if one can see or hear a difference, then it is simply logical to get a good match (grin).

Julien
Jun 22, 2013, 04:20 PM
We agree. However it was for the sake of discussion. I'll rephrase that a compressed copy being compressed yet again, will give inferior results when using something like Handbrake. As for the audio, DTS-Master is very close to uncompressed as it comes and in fact, is superior to most LPCM audio streams as most LPCM ratios are set lower though it is considered uncompressed. (This is the difference between something like CD quality verses a flac file that is 96/24 as opposed to 44/16 or 41/16.)....

Yes and a good analogue of using Handbrake would be like taking an audio file in AAC 320Kbps (very close sounding to the original) file and compressing it agin and down to MP3 96Kbps (audible artifacts added).

Just a little DTS-MA (and TrueHD) info. Both are totally lossless compression (like ALAC, FLAC or a Zip file) and are 100% bit for bit identical (not just "very close") to the LPCM master after decoding. Some BD's do contain LPCM tracks instead (or too) but they are almost always identical copies of the master (not down-sampled and/or bit lowered).

phrehdd
Jun 22, 2013, 11:13 PM
Yes and a good analogue of using Handbrake would be like taking an audio file in AAC 320Kbps (very close sounding to the original) file and compressing it agin and down to MP3 96Kbps (audible artifacts added).

Just a little DTS-MA (and TrueHD) info. Both are totally lossless compression (like ALAC, FLAC or a Zip file) and are 100% bit for bit identical (not just "very close") to the LPCM master after decoding. Some BD's do contain LPCM tracks instead (or too) but they are almost always identical copies of the master (not down-sampled and/or bit lowered).

The advantage of DTS "HD" variants and True HD is the ability to provide normalization while LPCM does not. Also of course size of stream/file. As for lossless compression - yep but the truth is that while being as you say bit perfect, the original being used may not be the master but a reworked master and that too can be a good or bad thing.

mrmarts
Jun 23, 2013, 12:07 AM
Would I regret if I stop buying blu rays and turn to digital content, especially when i use a AV receiver with 7 channels with a subwoofer, in the last reply someone told me there is no digital codecs like dolby digital how would this effect the sound being amplified from a HD receiver. Also would i notice a difference in picture quality when it is streamed onto my "55 tv. Finally does the Apple TV require an always on internet connection should I have no internet connection.

Julien
Jun 23, 2013, 06:41 AM
The advantage of DTS "HD" variants and True HD is the ability to provide normalization while LPCM does not. Also of course size of stream/file. As for lossless compression - yep but the truth is that while being as you say bit perfect, the original being used may not be the master but a reworked master and that too can be a good or bad thing.

Yes, File size and DN (Dialogue Normalization) are a couple of advantages but there are others too. Reduced file size also means lower bandwidth with more language options. There is additional metadata (besides DN) in TrueHD & DTS-MA like dynamic range compression (aka: Night Mode) and Down-mixing (going from 7.1 to 5.1 all the way to 2.0). Also for the ultra purest TrueHD/DTS-MA will likely have less jitter (controversial and debatable if it can be heard) since it is passed as packet data (and not a stream like LPCM).

You are correct about the Master. When I use the term Master I'm referring to the "working" Master and not the Original (archive) Master. Often with a film the Working Master is tweaked (for good or bad) to compensate for differences in a large theater and a interment home environment or other reasons.

Julien
Jun 23, 2013, 07:00 AM
Would I regret if I stop buying blu rays and turn to digital content, especially when i use a AV receiver with 7 channels with a subwoofer, in the last reply someone told me there is no digital codecs like dolby digital how would this effect the sound being amplified from a HD receiver. Also would i notice a difference in picture quality when it is streamed onto my "55 tv. Finally does the Apple TV require an always on internet connection should I have no internet connection.

You're ?'s are a little hard for me to understand (I don't speak Australian:D) but I'll give it a try.

1st a pet peeve of mine. Everyone (not just the OP) uses the term "digital" when referring to a download. FACT: All CD's, DVD's and BD's are digital.

Most download/streaming HD movies (like ATV) use a Dolby Digital ST. It is of course lossy (not TrueHD or DTS-MA) but will sound the same as a lossless ST to most people on most systems under most conditions.


Picture quality is a similar issue. A BD has a storage capacity of 50GB. Streamed HD movies are usually less than 10GB. However on a 55" 1080p TV you would need to set at about a <1.5 ratio (about 6' or less) to notice much difference. Also there are lots of things you might need to "learn" to look for like banding and micro blocking (sometimes ignorance is bliss).

mrmarts
Jun 23, 2013, 07:19 PM
You're ?'s are a little hard for me to understand (I don't speak Australian:D) but I'll give it a try.

1st a pet peeve of mine. Everyone (not just the OP) uses the term "digital" when referring to a download. FACT: All CD's, DVD's and BD's are digital.

Most download/streaming HD movies (like ATV) use a Dolby Digital ST. It is of course lossy (not TrueHD or DTS-MA) but will sound the same as a lossless ST to most people on most systems under most conditions.


Picture quality is a similar issue. A BD has a storage capacity of 50GB. Streamed HD movies are usually less than 10GB. However on a 55" 1080p TV you would need to set at about a <1.5 ratio (about 6' or less) to notice much difference. Also there are lots of things you might need to "learn" to look for like banding and micro blocking (sometimes ignorance is bliss).

Thanks for the feedback I guess I will buy my first Apple TV today for the entertainment room and will give it a whirl, besides 108 bucks seems a fair price in Australia.

phrehdd
Jun 23, 2013, 07:42 PM
You're ?'s are a little hard for me to understand (I don't speak Australian:D) but I'll give it a try.

1st a pet peeve of mine. Everyone (not just the OP) uses the term "digital" when referring to a download. FACT: All CD's, DVD's and BD's are digital.

Most download/streaming HD movies (like ATV) use a Dolby Digital ST. It is of course lossy (not TrueHD or DTS-MA) but will sound the same as a lossless ST to most people on most systems under most conditions.


Picture quality is a similar issue. A BD has a storage capacity of 50GB. Streamed HD movies are usually less than 10GB. However on a 55" 1080p TV you would need to set at about a <1.5 ratio (about 6' or less) to notice much difference. Also there are lots of things you might need to "learn" to look for like banding and micro blocking (sometimes ignorance is bliss).

Julian I suppose beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I find absolutely a big difference on my older 50" TV and my newer 65" TV with respect to playing a blu-ray disc vs the same movie streamed. On both TVs I can see a difference right away. Streamed usually has crushed blacks, slightly contrast increase, lost subtleties in certain scenes with respect to colour and most obvious is not nearly as "clean" looking in very high action scenes. When I say streaming - I refer to such items as Netflix, Amazon, Vudu etc. as opposed to streaming from say a home NAS with a full m2ts uncompressed 1080p level movie.

What might be said is most wont notice because they have no way to compare and often don't have a higher end TV. I am always amazed when I go to a BB store to see what people buy simply based on "size and price."

Julien
Jun 24, 2013, 12:17 PM
Julian I suppose beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I find absolutely a big difference on my older 50" TV and my newer 65" TV with respect to playing a blu-ray disc vs the same movie streamed....What might be said is most wont notice because they have no way to compare and often don't have a higher end TV. I am always amazed when I go to a BB store to see what people buy simply based on "size and price."

My response was a direct answer to mrmarts' question ONLY and not meant as a blanket statement cover all, especially you. Obviously anyone who knows what crushed black are will have at least a minimum discriminating eye (you can't unlearn how to see this but for those [>95%] who don't know they will never notice and the same for most artifacts and calibration issues).

Over 95% of people turn on their TV's and leave them in Vivid (Torch) mode and have no idea that brightness is actually black level.

phrehdd
Jun 24, 2013, 12:49 PM
My response was a direct answer to mrmarts' question ONLY and not meant as a blanket statement cover all, especially you. Obviously anyone who knows what crushed black are will have at least a minimum discriminating eye (you can't unlearn how to see this but for those [>95%] who don't know they will never notice and the same for most artifacts and calibration issues).

Over 95% of people turn on their TV's and leave them in Vivid (Torch) mode and have no idea that brightness is actually black level.

My response here is for especially you. No need to be rude.

Julien
Jun 24, 2013, 01:15 PM
My response here is for especially you. No need to be rude.

No intention of being rude. I even considered it a complement indicating that you were an exception to the general rule in understanding video artifacts.

Not sure what you are reading into my comments but I apologize for any miscommunication and will not reference or refer to you again.

phrehdd
Jun 24, 2013, 05:50 PM
No intention of being rude. I even considered it a complement indicating that you were an exception to the general rule in understanding video artifacts.

Not sure what you are reading into my comments but I apologize for any miscommunication and will not reference or refer to you again.

If I misread, then please accept my apology. I apologize.

mrmarts
Jun 24, 2013, 08:51 PM
You're ?'s are a little hard for me to understand (I don't speak Australian:D) but I'll give it a try.

1st a pet peeve of mine. Everyone (not just the OP) uses the term "digital" when referring to a download. FACT: All CD's, DVD's and BD's are digital.

Most download/streaming HD movies (like ATV) use a Dolby Digital ST. It is of course lossy (not TrueHD or DTS-MA) but will sound the same as a lossless ST to most people on most systems under most conditions.


Picture quality is a similar issue. A BD has a storage capacity of 50GB. Streamed HD movies are usually less than 10GB. However on a 55" 1080p TV you would need to set at about a <1.5 ratio (about 6' or less) to notice much difference. Also there are lots of things you might need to "learn" to look for like banding and micro blocking (sometimes ignorance is bliss).

Hey Julien I ended up buying my first Apple TV, having only seen a few seconds of a hd movie purchased from the iTunes store Gladiator it looks good and seemingly like a blu when seen at a distance.

Oh tsk tsk you forget to answer my question does the Apple TV always require an online connection? Thanks for the feedback though, it helped me in my purchase.

lunaoso
Jun 25, 2013, 05:20 AM
Hey Julien I ended up buying my first Apple TV, having only seen a few seconds of a hd movie purchased from the iTunes store Gladiator it looks good and seemingly like a blu when seen at a distance.

Oh tsk tsk you forget to answer my question does the Apple TV always require an online connection? Thanks for the feedback though, it helped me in my purchase.

Congrats! :) You can use it without Internet, but you are really limited to what you can do with it.

Julien
Jun 25, 2013, 06:10 AM
...Oh tsk tsk you forget to answer my question does the Apple TV always require an online connection? Thanks for the feedback though, it helped me in my purchase.

Sorry, glad lunaoso answered the question (since I have no off line experience). The ATV has 8GB of Flash storage. Not sure what is left after OS loading but it’s probably enough to hold (a single of) most HD movies. I have had HD movies to fully download within a few minutes after I started watching.

Hope you enjoy it.

mrmarts
Jun 25, 2013, 06:21 AM
Sorry, glad lunaoso answered the question (since I have no off line experience). The ATV has 8GB of Flash storage. Not sure what is left after OS loading but it’s probably enough to hold (a single of) most HD movies. I have had HD movies to fully download within a few minutes after I started watching.

Hope you enjoy it.

Hey Julien just one more quick question i purchased some old TV sitcoms like Fawlty Towers, I Dream of Jeannie etc, but they are in letterbox not widescreen , is there any way i can make it fill the screen in iTunes on my mac?. As the TV which it is hooked to has little settings when it comes to adjusting the display orientation.

Julien
Jun 25, 2013, 06:33 AM
Hey Julien just one more quick question i purchased some old TV sitcoms like Fawlty Towers, I Dream of Jeannie etc, but they are in letterbox not widescreen , is there any way i can make it fill the screen in iTunes on my mac?. As the TV which it is hooked to has little settings when it comes to adjusting the display orientation.
Actually they are not letterboxed. They are pillarboxed. ;)

The aspect ratio is 1.33 (4x3) and your TV is 1.78 (16x9). This is akin to fitting a square peg in a round hole. The only way to make it fit is sand off the corners. The same is true in 1.33 to 1.78. You could have to carve off the about 1/3 of the picture (top and bottom) by zooming up to make the sides line up. ATV doesn't offer this. OAR is by far the best so you don't lose pic info. Go to this Wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspect_ratio_(image)#Visual_comparisons) and and look at the 4th set of picture comparisons to see what would be cut off. If the man had something in his hand important to the film........or a helicopter over the building....