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Menneisyys2
Jun 22, 2013, 07:15 PM
I've promised to a lot of you I'd elaborate on the new multitasking features. After all, one of the recurring biggest buzzwords is multitasking when it comes to iOS7.

First and foremost, the multitasking model hasn't changed much. You cannot run arbitrary code in the background. Only the following types of functionality can be backgrounded (about half of them have already existed before iOS7):

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/81986513/062013/iphone5-Reflector/ios7-multitaskCapabilitiesMenu.jpg

(screenshot from Xcode 5)

What does this mean?

- you can't run video recording in the background while doing something else. This is a big problem IMHO as, for example, on Windows RT you can do anything in any other app while recording video in the "snap" (small) pane on the left. An excellent setup for, say, recording a lecture (assuming you have a holder to hold the tablet vertically so that the camera can see the subject, of course) while making notes on the same device, looking up something in Google / Wiki etc. You can't do the same on iOS.

- you still can't run any kind of video decoding or any kind of video outputting in the background. This could also be GREAT - you display Keynote slides or a video on an external monitor while doing something else on the tablet. (Keynote can be remote controlled while in background on JB'n devices - see my Keynote bible for more info: http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1587698 )

Currently, as I've also elaborated on in my latest article ("Quick Tip: Displaying and Recording AirPlay-capable iPhone / iPod touch Screens"), in section "Appendix One - What about the background multimedia playback in iOS7?" at http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1600620 , the only way of driving an external monitor / projector is via wireless AirPlay, even in iOS7. Wired TV output can't be backgrounded in any way.

- while video recording from the built-in camera has indeed been (somewhat) enhanced, it still lacks essential programming features like the "lens" feature of WP8 (see http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/reviews/software/3412010/windows-phone-8-sdk-review/ for more info). This means you still need to reimplement the entire video / still recording functionality in your own app if you want to, say, record the current location all the time. (iOS' multitasking model, unfortunately, still doesn't let for hour-long background location recording with good accuracy. Therefore, you can't just write a location recorder app and use the stock Camera app to record your video while your backgrounded app records the location - sooner or later, the location recorder will be killed by the system, even on the iPhone 5.) Adding your own functionality to the stock Camera interface is sorely missing - and the (not very extensive) new multitasking features don't help much (again, I refer to dynamic location recording for long-time videos. See my UbiPix recorder for more info: http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1517256 ).

All in all, don't let Apple's big words mislead you. There are indeed some new (mostly downloading / refreshing) multitasking modes. However, a lot of essential multimedia functionality (video recording, video playing, TV output driving etc., see above) still can't be done in the background - unlike on other OS'es.

Will add additional info later.

mrapplegate
Jun 22, 2013, 07:21 PM
I think Apple was pretty clear that in simplistic terms apps will be able to fetch new data while in the background. I don't think people were expecting video etc to play in the background. I could be wrong, it will be interesting to see what others inferred from Apple.

Menneisyys2
Jun 22, 2013, 07:30 PM
I think Apple was pretty clear that in simplistic terms apps will be able to fetch new data while in the background.


Generally, the threads here are full of "but iOS7 has multitasking!" statements without explaining exactly what the new features are. (One recent example is at http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=17470605&postcount=323 )

Unfortunately, this would make most people think "great! At last iOS can be used as freely as WP8 / WinRT / Android tablets / phones! I will no longer need to run the Camera app as the front app any more while recording" Unfortunately, this isn't the case.

I don't think people were expecting video etc to play in the background.

If you have a wired / wireless connection to an external TV, I think it's pretty natural to expect you can play back videos in the background (for example, for the family) while doing something else in the foreground (e.g, browsing the Web). Sadly, not even the stock Videos app is capable of this via wired connections, only via AirPlay (and, then, Home Sharing videos still can't be played back).

mrapplegate
Jun 22, 2013, 07:34 PM
I see your points. I did not get any sense Apple misled anyone after watching most of the developers videos involving multitasking. I'm not sure if people who are disappointed viewed any of the videos or not. Bottom line is did those who feel let down see any presentations?

Menneisyys2
Jun 22, 2013, 07:47 PM
Yup, I've mentioned this (AirPlay playback is allowed) twice in my posts:

"Sadly, not even the stock Videos app is capable of this [video output while in background] via wired connections, only via AirPlay (and, then, Home Sharing videos still can't be played back). "

"the only way of driving an external monitor / projector [while in background] is via wireless AirPlay, even in iOS7. Wired TV output can't be backgrounded in any way."

EDIT: applefanDrew's original post has been edited in the meantime. Mine referred to AirPlay's backgrounded playback.

Tubamajuba
Jun 22, 2013, 08:02 PM
Generally, the threads here are full of "but iOS7 has multitasking!" statements without explaining exactly what the new features are. (One recent example is at http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=17470605&postcount=323 )

Unfortunately, this would make most people think "great! At last iOS can be used as freely as WP8 / WinRT / Android tablets / phones! I will no longer need to run the Camera app as the front app any more while recording" Unfortunately, this isn't the case.



If you have a wired / wireless connection to an external TV, I think it's pretty natural to expect you can play back videos in the background (for example, for the family) while doing something else in the foreground (e.g, browsing the Web). Sadly, not even the stock Videos app is capable of this via wired connections, only via AirPlay (and, then, Home Sharing videos still can't be played back).

Maybe I'm boring and unimaginative, but none of those scenarios ever crossed my mind. I just assumed that iOS 7's multitasking would be an extension of the iOS 4-6 model, not a hugely revamped setup like the traditional desktop model. As long as battery life is a concern, I don't see Apple opening the floodgates.

Menneisyys2
Jun 22, 2013, 08:09 PM
Maybe I'm boring and unimaginative, but none of those scenarios ever crossed my mind. I just assumed that iOS 7's multitasking would be an extension of the iOS 4-6 model, not a hugely revamped setup like the traditional desktop model. As long as battery life is a concern, I don't see Apple opening the floodgates.

1, I really miss WinRT's snap mode. Or, staying with iOS, windowed execution like that of Quasar. I loved Quasar - it made my iPad sessions so much more productive. (Could have more than one app on the screen at the same time.)

2. I'm, as a programmer, a bit angry with Apple. I had to reimplement the entire stock Camera (it's not very easy - every functionality present in that client must be reimplemented by hand!) in my own third-party UbiPix client because Apple failed to

- provide a programming model like that of "lens" in WP8. Then, it'd be orders of magnitude easier / faster to write any kind of code using the camera

- at least provide a way of location logging for indefinitely long times but without only relying on significant location changes. (That'd be useless for a dynamic video location / heading logger.) This is certainly possible in Android - I mean there you can write a background logger client that is NOT killed by the system.

Menneisyys2
Jun 23, 2013, 04:32 AM
I did not get any sense Apple misled anyone after watching most of the developers videos involving multitasking. I'm not sure if people who are disappointed viewed any of the videos or not.

Yes, they did hint on the new multitasking features are only refreshing and the like in the keynote. Of course they didn't state "Sorry, but don't expect anything multi-windowing (like Quasar) or snap mode (like that of Windows RT)".

No wonder even respected tech blogs like iDownloadBlog misunderstood what the new features are about and start their articles with the following, absolutely flawed statement:

"Rejoice, Apple has brought Multitasking to all apps in iOS7."

(Source: http://www.idownloadblog.com/2013/06/10/ios-7-multitasking/ )

This is only true in the sense that the card switcher indeed shows all apps. As did the old task manager in pre-iOS7 times, of course.

Running any kind of functionality in the background or in another window (on a sufficiently large screen, like that of an iPad), as the opening sentence would mean to anything used to truly multitasking OS'es (desktop operating systems / WindowsRT / WebOS / Symbian / Windows Mobile / Samsung's proprietary windowing additions to Android 4.x)? Nope, definitely not.

Unfortunately, this forum is also full of people that don't seem understand what the new features are. This is why they keep shouting "iOS7 iz teh best thing bicoz it has MULTITASKING!!!!111!One!"

Cod3rror
Jun 23, 2013, 05:40 AM
It's limited, add to that, that you cannot play audio from a video source(Safari with YouTube open for example) in the background anymore.

Skika
Jun 23, 2013, 06:22 AM
It's limited, add to that, that you cannot play audio from a video source(Safari with YouTube open for example) in the background anymore.

YouTube is limited for licensing reasons. You can still do background audio with Safari.

So you are incorrect.

DMH3006
Jun 23, 2013, 06:44 AM
1, I really miss WinRT's snap mode. Or, staying with iOS, windowed execution like that of Quasar. I loved Quasar - it made my iPad sessions so much more productive. (Could have more than one app on the screen at the same time.)

2. I'm, as a programmer, a bit angry with Apple. I had to reimplement the entire stock Camera (it's not very easy - every functionality present in that client must be reimplemented by hand!) in my own third-party UbiPix client because Apple failed to

- provide a programming model like that of "lens" in WP8. Then, it'd be orders of magnitude easier / faster to write any kind of code using the camera

- at least provide a way of location logging for indefinitely long times but without only relying on significant location changes. (That'd be useless for a dynamic video location / heading logger.) This is certainly possible in Android - I mean there you can write a background logger client that is NOT killed by the system.

Are you serious? You want a function that uses the location services for a non-defined amount of time? That would simply kill battery especially since implementing it in the way you mention would mean after you open that app location services would always be running and location services is just one of biggest drains on battery the iphone has.

I don't see the issue of not being able to split the screen,never thought splitting the screen worked very well in touch-based devices.

Clearly for your needs the Windows tablets are better so perhaps you should get one.

Cod3rror
Jun 23, 2013, 06:48 AM
YouTube is limited for licensing reasons. You can still do background audio with Safari.

So you are incorrect.

Really? You can do it from other websites? Can you please provide proof?

Is they limited it for licensing reasons, that is such a stupid decision. What are they going to do next? Limit PC browsers so they don't play audio in the background?

applefanDrew
Jun 23, 2013, 06:54 AM
Really? You can do it from other websites? Can you please provide proof?

Is they limited it for licensing reasons, that is such a stupid decision. What are they going to do next? Limit PC browsers so they don't play audio in the background?


http://webmedia.gty.org/sermons/High/90-427.mp3

Try this. It'll play in safari whe you check mail for example

Menneisyys2
Jun 23, 2013, 06:59 AM
Are you serious? You want a function that uses the location services for a non-defined amount of time? That would simply kill battery especially since implementing it in the way you mention would mean after you open that app location services would always be running and location services is just one of biggest drains on battery the iphone has.

If the user wants such an app, there should be a way of providing him. Then, it's up to him to kill the process when he doesn't need logging any more. But he still be given the chance of logging whenever he wants to, without having to restart logging every 10-15 minutes to avoid the process being killed by the OS.

This is possible on Android (and WP8, assuming you implement the location logger as a "lens" on the latter). On iOS, you can't, unless you reimplement the entire stock Camera app in your own one (have you ever tried it?) to avoid having to run a location / direction / heading logger in the background, as a separate process.

I don't see the issue of not being able to split the screen,never thought splitting the screen worked very well in touch-based devices.

You don't see. It's you, not everybody. A lot of iOS users, even here in the iOS7 forum (see http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1597464 ), do.

Clearly for your needs the Windows tablets are better so perhaps you should get one.

Nope, I'd like to stick with my Apple gear because, currently, they do have superior hardware (ever seen a WinRT e.g. Surface? Low-res screen, I certainly wouldn't exchange my Retina iPad for it). I just want Apple to get on to speed and at least try to provide iOS users the same (or even better) features present on other, competing OS'es. Or, for that matter (see Quasar), features that JB devs have long been developed and are hugely popular.

Skika
Jun 23, 2013, 07:04 AM
Really? You can do it from other websites? Can you please provide proof?

Is they limited it for licensing reasons, that is such a stupid decision. What are they going to do next? Limit PC browsers so they don't play audio in the background?

Go here with Safari and iOS device: http://r-a-d.io/#

Press play in browser and then home button. It plays in the background no problem.

Just one example.

DMH3006
Jun 23, 2013, 07:40 AM
If the user wants such an app, there should be a way of providing him. Then, it's up to him to kill the process when he doesn't need logging any more. But he still be given the chance of logging whenever he wants to, without having to restart logging every 10-15 minutes to avoid the process being killed by the OS.

This is possible on Android (and WP8, assuming you implement the location logger as a "lens" on the latter). On iOS, you can't, unless you reimplement the entire stock Camera app in your own one (have you ever tried it?) to avoid having to run a location / direction / heading logger in the background, as a separate process.



You don't see. It's you, not everybody. A lot of iOS users, even here in the iOS7 forum (see http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1597464 ), do.



Nope, I'd like to stick with my Apple gear because, currently, they do have superior hardware (ever seen a WinRT e.g. Surface? Low-res screen, I certainly wouldn't exchange my Retina iPad for it). I just want Apple to get on to speed and at least try to provide iOS users the same (or even better) features present on other, competing OS'es. Or, for that matter (see Quasar), features that JB devs have long been developed and are hugely popular.

Assuming users would know they had to kill it, the most likely result being people complaining about poor battery life.

I study in an engineering college, no one complains about it because most if not all understand the iPad wasn't designed to replace a computers productivity.

If you wish to stick to something that doesn't do all you require while alternatives exist then Ican't understand your complaining, you're making a decision so you'll have to live with it.

Besides anybody who reads this thread gets the impression Apple "promised" multitasking a la Android and is failing to deliver.

They have lots of areas to improve but they're trying to remove concern of the user so the user can just use the device,your location solution would force the user to be aware of the fact that he actually needs to kill an application which goes away from their thinking, they won't allow it and there's no point in complaining about it since its clearly a design option of them.

Menneisyys2
Jun 23, 2013, 07:57 AM
Assuming users would know they had to kill it, the most likely result being people complaining about poor battery life.

Again: if a user wants to record for example dynamically geotagged video with the stock Camera app, it's up to him to kill the location logger. (Apple's Camera doesn't dynamically geotag videos, unlike many P&S cameras.)

I study in an engineering college, no one complains about it because most if not all understand the iPad wasn't designed to replace a computers productivity.

Yes, we've all heard of this from Apple proponents a hundred times. But times are changing and people that paid thousands or tens of thousands of $$$ during the years rightfully expect Apple to at least try to provide the same freedom, functionality etc. on their tablets / phones as on the competitors' products.

If you wish to stick to something that doesn't do all you require while alternatives exist then Ican't understand your complaining, you're making a decision so you'll have to live with it.

See above: I'm sticking with Apple because of its hardware superiority, at least with tablets. However, its OS getting stale compared to both Android and WinRT and Apple's reluctance to heavily improve iOS is getting me upset.

Again, iOS doesn't live in vacuum. Customers of Apple (ones that, again, paid the Apple tax) rightfully expect Apple to at least try to match the competitors' products, software/OS-wise.

Besides anybody who reads this thread gets the impression Apple "promised" multitasking a la Android and is failing to deliver.

I certainly didn't mean that. I referred to iDownloadBog and the like because it was them that misunderstood Apple's keynote and have spread incorrect statements like "from now, all apps can run in the background" and the like. Same stands for a lot of forum posts here implying iOS7 has the same multitasking freedom as the, in this regard, more advanced OS'es (Android, WP8 / WinRT etc.). Somebody (preferably one with a very strong multiplatform programming background - like me) had to get these facts right.

C DM
Jun 23, 2013, 10:07 AM
Again: if a user wants to record for example dynamically geotagged video with the stock Camera app, it's up to him to kill the location logger. (Apple's Camera doesn't dynamically geotag videos, unlike many P&S cameras.)



Yes, we've all heard of this from Apple proponents a hundred times. But times are changing and people that paid thousands or tens of thousands of $$$ during the years rightfully expect Apple to at least try to provide the same freedom, functionality etc. on their tablets / phones as on the competitors' products.



See above: I'm sticking with Apple because of its hardware superiority, at least with tablets. However, its OS getting stale compared to both Android and WinRT and Apple's reluctance to heavily improve iOS is getting me upset.

Again, iOS doesn't live in vacuum. Customers of Apple (ones that, again, paid the Apple tax) rightfully expect Apple to at least try to match the competitors' products, software/OS-wise.



I certainly didn't mean that. I referred to iDownloadBog and the like because it was them that misunderstood Apple's keynote and have spread incorrect statements like "from now, all apps can run in the background" and the like. Same stands for a lot of forum posts here implying iOS7 has the same multitasking freedom as the, in this regard, more advanced OS'es (Android, WP8 / WinRT etc.). Somebody (preferably one with a very strong multiplatform programming background - like me) had to get these facts right.The people who even remotely care about things of this nature (let alone understand what is behind them even on a basic level) comprise a tiny portion of the userbase, and a tiny portion is essentially insignificant as far as what a company would do. Until a company starts feeling some effects of anything related to that not that much would be done, if even then.

Certainly with te sales of iOS devices being what they have been and what they are still more than likely to be at least in the near future if not well beyond that, none of that really plays much of a role.

DMH3006
Jun 23, 2013, 12:21 PM
Again: if a user wants to record for example dynamically geotagged video with the stock Camera app, it's up to him to kill the location logger. (Apple's Camera doesn't dynamically geotag videos, unlike many P&S cameras.)



Yes, we've all heard of this from Apple proponents a hundred times. But times are changing and people that paid thousands or tens of thousands of $$$ during the years rightfully expect Apple to at least try to provide the same freedom, functionality etc. on their tablets / phones as on the competitors' products.



See above: I'm sticking with Apple because of its hardware superiority, at least with tablets. However, its OS getting stale compared to both Android and WinRT and Apple's reluctance to heavily improve iOS is getting me upset.

Again, iOS doesn't live in vacuum. Customers of Apple (ones that, again, paid the Apple tax) rightfully expect Apple to at least try to match the competitors' products, software/OS-wise.



I certainly didn't mean that. I referred to iDownloadBog and the like because it was them that misunderstood Apple's keynote and have spread incorrect statements like "from now, all apps can run in the background" and the like. Same stands for a lot of forum posts here implying iOS7 has the same multitasking freedom as the, in this regard, more advanced OS'es (Android, WP8 / WinRT etc.). Somebody (preferably one with a very strong multiplatform programming background - like me) had to get these facts right.

From what I see our biggest issue is that you can't implement things in iOS as you do on Android and thats fine because they're 2 different platforms.

The user C DM already answered this but all your points are valid points and yet you(and other people that require more freedom/different implementations of features) represent a tiny portion of the overall buyers of Apple devices which as seen from their approval rates and willingness to buy from Apple again represents Apple's strategy is solid.

Compare it as this: you have a Porsche 911 and a Rolls Royce(disregard difference in prices),Android is a Porsche 911 its very good for everyday driving but it isn't the ideal one for it while iOS is the Rolls will suck at probably any speed test compared to the 911 yet for a everyday driving it will be the best.
In a sense both are great platforms yet one is catered to more of the use,don't fine-tune,it'll work great from mostly everything you require. Android will also work great yet you'll have to fine-tune certain things to get the best everyday experience.

DustinT
Jun 23, 2013, 12:58 PM
Maybe I'm boring and unimaginative, but none of those scenarios ever crossed my mind. I just assumed that iOS 7's multitasking would be an extension of the iOS 4-6 model, not a hugely revamped setup like the traditional desktop model. As long as battery life is a concern, I don't see Apple opening the floodgates.I agree. I can't see the value in what the OP is suggesting. I've been running iOS since version 2 and I think they've struck just the right balance with iOS 7's enhanced multi-tasking features. I can't honestly remember one time when I've wanted to video record a lecture at the same time I'm surfing the web. Who's the target audience for this, ADD riddled college students?

Michael Goff
Jun 23, 2013, 03:00 PM
I agree. I can't see the value in what the OP is suggesting. I've been running iOS since version 2 and I think they've struck just the right balance with iOS 7's enhanced multi-tasking features. I can't honestly remember one time when I've wanted to video record a lecture at the same time I'm surfing the web. Who's the target audience for this, ADD riddled college students?

Yeah, those ADD riddled college students... or people who want to watch a lecture and type out notes. Either way, everything is perfect the way iOS 7 does it. It'll offer good battery life, and Apple will still be able to throw in anemic batteries in their devices.

So I guess it's a self-created problem with battery life and multitasking.... but oh well, it's an iPhone!

/sarcasm

Gogurt48
Jun 23, 2013, 03:30 PM
Yeah, those ADD riddled college students... or people who want to watch a lecture and type out notes.

Realistically, how would someone do that? I can't imagine being able to aim the device at the lecturer, hold it still to record the video, and simultaneously type out notes on it.

Michael Goff
Jun 23, 2013, 03:32 PM
Realistically, how would someone do that? I can't imagine being able to aim the device at the lecturer, hold it still to record the video, and simultaneously type out notes on it.

You do know that some teachers put their lectures online, right? Just figured I'd throw that out there. And if you go to online classes... well, I guess only real colleges where you go to a physical class matter, right? I mean, online schools where you learn just as much... they don't matter. >_>;

DustinT
Jun 23, 2013, 03:39 PM
You do know that some teachers put their lectures online, right? Just figured I'd throw that out there. And if you go to online classes... well, I guess only real colleges where you go to a physical class matter, right? I mean, online schools where you learn just as much... they don't matter. >_>;If it's online, you sure couldn't point an iPad camera at it and make it record. All the classes I took online allowed the lecture to be viewed anytime you wanted too, just find it and hit 'play'.

Lol, people can be so silly sometimes.

Michael Goff
Jun 23, 2013, 03:43 PM
If it's online, you sure couldn't point an iPad camera at it and make it record. All the classes I took online allowed the lecture to be viewed anytime you wanted too, just find it and hit 'play'.

Lol, people can be so silly sometimes.

Huh?

Gogurt48
Jun 23, 2013, 03:49 PM
You do know that some teachers put their lectures online, right? Just figured I'd throw that out there. And if you go to online classes... well, I guess only real colleges where you go to a physical class matter, right? I mean, online schools where you learn just as much... they don't matter. >_>;

So, what you're envisioning is this: You're watching an online lecture on your Mac, and you're holding your iPad still, with its camera aimed at your Mac's screen. At the same time, you're typing notes on the iPad. While holding it still. And recording the lecture.

I'm sorry, but as convenient as that sounds, I just don't think there'd be much demand for that capability.

Defender2010
Jun 23, 2013, 03:59 PM
OP you keep comparing iOS to Android and Windows - go buy one of them then, your post is ranting and close to trolling...sounds angry.

Michael Goff
Jun 23, 2013, 04:10 PM
OP you keep comparing iOS to Android and Windows - go buy one of them then, your post is ranting and close to trolling...sounds angry.

Yeah, don't bring up anything that iOS could do better by bringing up examples... that's trolling. If you don't like everything about your iOS device, go get something else.

So, what you're envisioning is this: You're watching an online lecture on your Mac, and you're holding your iPad still, with its camera aimed at your Mac's screen. At the same time, you're typing notes on the iPad. While holding it still. And recording the lecture.

I'm sorry, but as convenient as that sounds, I just don't think there'd be much demand for that capability.

No, that's not what I'm envisioning. How could you have possibly got that from what I put? HOW? I put that you're watching the lecture online and taking notes. Simple. It's not hard to understand.

Yet you seem to be failing to grasp the idea of watching a video and taking notes on it. That just... it's baffling.

cmChimera
Jun 23, 2013, 04:17 PM
Yeah, don't bring up anything that iOS could do better by bringing up examples... that's trolling. If you don't like everything about your iOS device, go get something else.



No, that's not what I'm envisioning. How could you have possibly got that from what I put? HOW? I put that you're watching the lecture online and taking notes. Simple. It's not hard to understand.

Yet you seem to be failing to grasp the idea of watching a video and taking notes on it. That just... it's baffling.


Doesn't iTunes U let you do that? Serious question.

Gogurt48
Jun 23, 2013, 04:47 PM
No, that's not what I'm envisioning. How could you have possibly got that from what I put? HOW?

Because you were responding to a comment that said, "I can't honestly remember one time when I've wanted to video record a lecture at the same time I'm surfing the web." So, naturally, I assumed we were still talking about video recording not video watching.

Yet you seem to be failing to grasp the idea of watching a video and taking notes on it. That just... it's baffling.

If I understand you correctly now, you're envisioning having two open windows on the iPad, one of which is showing the lecture, the other in which you take notes. Yes?

Bawstun
Jun 23, 2013, 05:03 PM
If I understand you correctly now, you're envisioning having two open windows on the iPad, one of which is showing the lecture, the other in which you take notes. Yes?

Well that'll never happen IMO. That's taking the iPad/iPhone to a PC level of multi-tasking with, essentially, minimizing/maximizing windows. Only way you can do something split screen like that unless they develop an app specfically for that purpose?

QuarterSwede
Jun 23, 2013, 05:31 PM
Well that'll never happen IMO. That's taking the iPad/iPhone to a PC level of multi-tasking with, essentially, minimizing/maximizing windows. Only way you can do something split screen like that unless they develop an app specfically for that purpose?
That's one of his complaints. He wants Windows RT split screen like multitasking. I could see the benefit but if I needed to do that I'd just use my MacBook honestly.

Zerilos
Jun 23, 2013, 06:04 PM
You do know that some teachers put their lectures online, right? Just figured I'd throw that out there. And if you go to online classes... well, I guess only real colleges where you go to a physical class matter, right? I mean, online schools where you learn just as much... they don't matter. >_>;

Fact of the matter is that Apple has always designed their iOS products primarily for media consumption and not as laptop replacements. This means that if you need to record a lecture (or view it online) while taking notes on the same device, then the iPad probably is not ideal. I'm certain that Apple is aware of this and has accepted the loss of this 0.3% of the market needing their tablet for simultaneous video viewing (or recording) and dictation. Obviously, the Surface RT is there to meeting the needs of this neglected portion of the market...and their sales reflect that fact. For good or bad, Apple's strategy has always been to focus on the basics with their iOS products while simultaneously managing to turn a profit. This means they don't spend resources to add features unless doing so can be accomplished without reducing the quality of the device in other areas and will enhance the profitability of the device. Having plenty of experience with Android tablets (no W8 RT experience) I know how quickly all of those extra features will nuke their ginormous Android batteries. Let's put it this way: the iPad handily defeats all competitors in battery tests, despite the fact that all background features are disabled when the tests are conducted...when those extra features are actually being used the Android device's battery life gets way worse. Basically, if you're buying a tablet and expecting a laptop; then iOS devices are not what you are looking for. All of the major mobile platforms come with tradeoffs and this is Apple's.

Menneisyys2
Jun 24, 2013, 04:45 AM
. I'm certain that Apple is aware of this and has accepted the loss of this 0.3% of the market needing their tablet for simultaneous video viewing (or recording) and dictation. Obviously, the Surface RT is there to meeting the needs of this neglected portion of the market...and their sales reflect that fact.

If you mean the (pretty bad) sales of RT devices reflect the demand for split-screen (or, even better, multiwindow) multitasking, you're absolutely wrong.

A lot of iPad users simply won't go for the current crop of RT tablets because of their low-res display. An example is me: I love my Retina iPad and, after having used the RT and loved its snap mode, would never purchase it. The screen is just pitifully low-res. That is, people not happy with the complete lack of split-screen multitask won't all purchase an RT tablet.

BTW, speaking of demand:

- another Quasar thread has been opened today (too) here at MR (see http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1601050 ) - that is, there IS demand, given the frequency of Quasar / splitscreen posts here at MR.

- several leading AppStore apps (for example, CineXPlayer) have added internal split-screen functionality because there IS demand.

- many other AppStore apps exist whose sole purpose is giving the user split-screen functionality, for example, Video DS – DualScreen Video Player ( https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/video-ds-dualscreen-video/id470648308?mt=8 )

- there are a lot of articles out there asking for for example video + Notes split-screen: http://www.imore.com/forums-multitasking-downside-display-iphone-japan (see the "Why can't I watch movies AND do other things at the same time?" link there)

This also shows there IS demand.

----------

This means that if you need to record a lecture (or view it online) while taking notes on the same device, then the iPad probably is not ideal.

Convergence. Why drag along a full notebook when I can (could, if Apple bothered to, say, purchase Quasar and provide users with it on iPads) do the same on an iPad? Convergence is the magic word - this is why smartphones exist at all and PDA's have died.

----------

Well that'll never happen IMO. That's taking the iPad/iPhone to a PC level of multi-tasking with, essentially, minimizing/maximizing windows. Only way you can do something split screen like that unless they develop an app specfically for that purpose?

1. The larger iPad has a LARGE screen estate and sufficiently high resolution. It could easily show more than one window / pane at a time. This is why the only real windowing JB app, Quasar was so popular on iOS5 iPads.

2. Proponents of MS-DOS have, back in time, also said there's no need for splitscreen/windowed multitasking and Windows / OS2 / MacOS / GEOS were all gimmicks. We all know what happened to MS-DOS. Or, a more, background suspending-wise, iOS-like example, Palm OS back in the early 2000's. There was a reason it lost against Windows Mobile on PDA's and Symbian on phones. One of the biggest reasons was its lack of multitasking, while both Windows Mobile and Symbian offered true, unrestricted multitasking. Without windowing, of course, given the small screen estate back then. Nevertheless, the only-to-music-playback restricted multitasking of PalmOS contributed to its death a lot.

Michael Goff
Jun 24, 2013, 07:12 AM
Doesn't iTunes U let you do that? Serious question.

It likely does, if your school has their lectures on iTunes U. I wouldn't know, I don't use it.

Because you were responding to a comment that said, "I can't honestly remember one time when I've wanted to video record a lecture at the same time I'm surfing the web." So, naturally, I assumed we were still talking about video recording not video watching.



If I understand you correctly now, you're envisioning having two open windows on the iPad, one of which is showing the lecture, the other in which you take notes. Yes?

Yes.

I was responding to the horrible thing with a sarcastic response to point out that it isn't the way he said. Some people would need something like that, contrary to his idea of "nobody needs it because I don't, and I'm going to mock anyone who does".

Fact of the matter is that Apple has always designed their iOS products primarily for media consumption and not as laptop replacements. This means that if you need to record a lecture (or view it online) while taking notes on the same device, then the iPad probably is not ideal. I'm certain that Apple is aware of this and has accepted the loss of this 0.3% of the market needing their tablet for simultaneous video viewing (or recording) and dictation. Obviously, the Surface RT is there to meeting the needs of this neglected portion of the market...and their sales reflect that fact. For good or bad, Apple's strategy has always been to focus on the basics with their iOS products while simultaneously managing to turn a profit. This means they don't spend resources to add features unless doing so can be accomplished without reducing the quality of the device in other areas and will enhance the profitability of the device. Having plenty of experience with Android tablets (no W8 RT experience) I know how quickly all of those extra features will nuke their ginormous Android batteries. Let's put it this way: the iPad handily defeats all competitors in battery tests, despite the fact that all background features are disabled when the tests are conducted...when those extra features are actually being used the Android device's battery life gets way worse. Basically, if you're buying a tablet and expecting a laptop; then iOS devices are not what you are looking for. All of the major mobile platforms come with tradeoffs and this is Apple's.

So we're not supposed to ever want the iPad to evolve into something more than what it is today? That seems like a great way to keep technology stagnant.

TroyBoy30
Jun 24, 2013, 07:20 AM
i can do some split screens on my note ii. its a gimmick and never gets used

daijholt
Jun 24, 2013, 07:21 AM
Protuber is an app that lets you play Youtube videos in the background whilst doing other stuff like checking your mail or browsing Safari, and if you lock the phone the video even plays on the lock screen. The functionality is clearly there (that or there's some kind of work around), its just seems like a lot of apps don't to utilise it to its full potential.

DustinT
Jun 24, 2013, 07:27 AM
Protuber is an app that lets you play Youtube videos in the background whilst doing other stuff like checking your mail or browsing Safari, and if you lock the phone the video even plays on the lock screen. The functionality is clearly there (that or there's some kind of work around), its just seems like a lot of apps don't to utilise it to its full potential.

Yes, I agree the OS has the support for allowing applications to do this. Indeed, apps are currently doing it! But, the market has decided this isn't a mainstream feature.

daijholt
Jun 24, 2013, 07:33 AM
Yes, I agree the OS has the support for allowing applications to do this. Indeed, apps are currently doing it! But, the market has decided this isn't a mainstream feature.

Come to think of it, & besides Maps of course, YouTube is pretty much the only app its would be useful for anyway.

Abazigal
Jun 24, 2013, 07:38 AM
Does anyone know if IOS7 lets imovie continue exporting edited videos in the background? I never seemed to get this feature to work on my 4s?

So wired output can't be backgrounded, huh? Never tried it, ironic when I am happily streaming videos to my Apple Tv via airvideo running in the background (videos are stored in my imac in the next room), while playing games or surfing the web on the ipad.

Guess Apple seems pretty intent on pushing their airplay technology. :p

chrf097
Jun 24, 2013, 07:42 AM
I've promised to a lot of you I'd elaborate on the new multitasking features. After all, one of the recurring biggest buzzwords is multitasking when it comes to iOS7.

First and foremost, the multitasking model hasn't changed much. You cannot run arbitrary code in the background. Only the following types of functionality can be backgrounded (about half of them have already existed before iOS7):

Image (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/81986513/062013/iphone5-Reflector/ios7-multitaskCapabilitiesMenu.jpg)

(screenshot from Xcode 5)

What does this mean?

- you can't run video recording in the background while doing something else. This is a big problem IMHO as, for example, on Windows RT you can do anything in any other app while recording video in the "snap" (small) pane on the left. An excellent setup for, say, recording a lecture (assuming you have a holder to hold the tablet vertically so that the camera can see the subject, of course) while making notes on the same device, looking up something in Google / Wiki etc. You can't do the same on iOS.

- you still can't run any kind of video decoding or any kind of video outputting in the background. This could also be GREAT - you display Keynote slides or a video on an external monitor while doing something else on the tablet. (Keynote can be remote controlled while in background on JB'n devices - see my Keynote bible for more info: http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1587698

Currently, as I've also elaborated on in my latest article ("Quick Tip: Displaying and Recording AirPlay-capable iPhone / iPod touch Screens"), in section "Appendix One - What about the background multimedia playback in iOS7?" at http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1600620 , the only way of driving an external monitor / projector is via wireless AirPlay, even in iOS7. Wired TV output can't be backgrounded in any way

- while video recording from the built-in camera has indeed been (somewhat) enhanced, it still lacks essential programming features like the "lens" feature of WP8 (see http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/reviews/software/3412010/windows-phone-8-sdk-review/ for more info). This means you still need to reimplement the entire video / still recording functionality in your own app if you want to, say, record the current location all the time. (iOS' multitasking model, unfortunately, still doesn't let for hour-long background location recording with good accuracy. Therefore, you can't just write a location recorder app and use the stock Camera app to record your video while your backgrounded app records the location - sooner or later, the location recorder will be killed by the system, even on the iPhone 5.) Adding your own functionality to the stock Camera interface is sorely missing - and the (not very extensive) new multitasking features don't help much (again, I refer to dynamic location recording for long-time videos. See my UbiPix recorder for more info: http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1517256 ).

All in all, don't let Apple's big words mislead you. There are indeed some new (mostly downloading / refreshing) multitasking modes. However, a lot of essential multimedia functionality (video recording, video playing, TV output driving etc., see above) still can't be done in the background - unlike on other OS'es.

Will add additional info later.

It seems like all you're doing here is getting extremely specific. The only one that actually has some substantial behind it is the Keynote slides system. Other than that, all the others sound EXTREMELY specific that only tens of users would actually use.

That first point is very unusual too. Maybe you just write really awkwardly, but if someone was going to give a presentation and be recorded while doing it, why would they give their tablet, which is running the presentation to someone else to film them? :confused: EDIT: Nevermind, I understand what you're point is (after reading others comments) and still, if you're going to be doing that you should be paying attention the lecture or not there at all.


Also, I'm going to need some support to show that Apple has made any of these claims. They claimed that they have improved multitasking, but nowhere did they claim that all these features you're talking about are integrated, nor did anyone else claim these features were coming.

Again, these don't seem like essential multimedia functionality, more like just niche uses.

Also, WHY in the WORLD would you not want to see the camera as the front app when recording? That's one of the most illogical things I've heard. If you're recording something, uh, you're gonna wanna see what it looks like on the screen to make sure you're capturing everything.

Menneisyys2
Jun 24, 2013, 08:39 AM
i can do some split screens on my note ii. its a gimmick and never gets used

In your opinion. A lot of Cydia (Quasar) / AppStore (CineXPlayer, Video DS – DualScreen Video Player etc.) customers have a completely different opinion about splitscreen multitasking being a "gimmick".

----------

It seems like all you're doing here is getting extremely specific. The only one that actually has some substantial behind it is the Keynote slides system. Other than that, all the others sound EXTREMELY specific that only tens of users would actually use.

Well, using the iPad / iPhone as a, say, wired car video player is used by many. For example, here at MR users have asked for it (can even look up the thread for you). Same stands for wired video playback in general - I think a lot more than a handful would love doing something on their iDevice while it's playing back video on an external monitor, over a wired connection.

That first point is very unusual too. Maybe you just write really awkwardly, but if someone was going to give a presentation and be recorded while doing it, why would they give their tablet, which is running the presentation to someone else to film them? :confused: EDIT: Nevermind, I understand what you're point is (after reading others comments) and still, if you're going to be doing that you should be paying attention the lecture or not there at all.

...


Also, WHY in the WORLD would you not want to see the camera as the front app when recording? That's one of the most illogical things I've heard. If you're recording something, uh, you're gonna wanna see what it looks like on the screen to make sure you're capturing everything.

It was just one example of using the video camera while doing something else on the iDevice. I could mention a lot of other scenarios: you're, for example, shooting a video of your family on your iPhone when somebody asks you for some info present on your iPhone (address, tel. number etc.). You don't want to miss any moments so you don't press the home button (because it'd immediately stop recording video) to switch to Notes / Contacts / anything. This is pretty common a scenario.

Also, I'm going to need some support to show that Apple has made any of these claims. They claimed that they have improved multitasking, but nowhere did they claim that all these features you're talking about are integrated, nor did anyone else claim these features were coming.

A LOT of tech articles stated after Apple's keynote we, at last, have excellent multitasking. (See the iDownloadBlog article's start: "Rejoice, Apple has brought Multitasking to all apps in iOS7." This is absolutely flawed. And that's just one example: a lot of MR forum members are using similarly flawed statements "iOS7 at last has multitasking".) This is why I've started this thread: to make clear what this kind of multitasking is capable of and what it isn't.

----------

Does anyone know if IOS7 lets imovie continue exporting edited videos in the background? I never seemed to get this feature to work on my 4s?

Theoretically, apps should be able to do so even in pre-iOS7 (up to 10 minutes; see Task completion). That is, Apple could implement it in their current (non-iOS7-specific) version as well.

So wired output can't be backgrounded, huh? Never tried it, ironic when I am happily streaming videos to my Apple Tv via airvideo running in the background (videos are stored in my imac in the next room), while playing games or surfing the web on the ipad.

Yup, this is one of the reasons why I'm missing wired video background output.

Abazigal
Jun 24, 2013, 09:06 AM
Theoretically, apps should be able to do so even in pre-iOS7 (up to 10 minutes; see Task completion). That is, Apple could implement it in their current (non-iOS7-specific) version as well.

Only 10 minutes? That figures. I was processing a rather large file that took over 2 hours to export. :p

DustinT
Jun 24, 2013, 09:30 AM
Man, I shudder to think about doing something like that on an iPad... Even a basic laptop or desktop computer would be so much better suited to the task.

Menneisyys2
Jun 24, 2013, 09:43 AM
Man, I shudder to think about doing something like that on an iPad... Even a basic laptop or desktop computer would be so much better suited to the task.

Again: convergence. Why drag around a bulky, (except for the rMBP's / the Chromabook) low-res, noisy, hot (=x86) laptop when you can have the much lighter iPad with a much better screen? A lot of people (including me) prefer doing as much as possible on their Retina iPads because of the screen, size, battery life, weight etc.

Sadly, Apple has discontinued the 17" MBP line, my favorite one. 15" screens (let alone 13" ones), the only ones with decent Retina screens (rMBP's), are just too small for me (I don't want to use external monitors) so I'm stuck with my WUXGA 17" MBP model. Which is really pixelizated compared to my retina iPad. As are MBA's, BTW. No wonder I (and a lot of other people with low-res notebooks) prefer the iPad.

Night Spring
Jun 24, 2013, 10:59 AM
It was just one example of using the video camera while doing something else on the iDevice. I could mention a lot of other scenarios: you're, for example, shooting a video of your family on your iPhone when somebody asks you for some info present on your iPhone (address, tel. number etc.). You don't want to miss any moments so you don't press the home button (because it'd immediately stop recording video) to switch to Notes / Contacts / anything. This is pretty common a scenario.

I think you are really reaching there. First of all, I find it hard to imagine that people would imterrupt someone who is busy recording a video to ask them to look up some info on their device. Second, if someone did ask, and you decide to accommodate them, I think it'd be extremely difficult to keep your phone pointed at the event you are recording while at the same time looking up info on it. At best, you are likely to end up with a bumpy and shaky video, because no way will you be able to keep the device completely steady while tapping, swiping and pushing buttons to switch apps and do the necessary manipulation to look up the info.

Menneisyys2
Jun 24, 2013, 11:14 AM
I think you are really reaching there. First of all, I find it hard to imagine that people would imterrupt someone who is busy recording a video to ask them to look up some info on their device. Second, if someone did ask, and you decide to accommodate them, I think it'd be extremely difficult to keep your phone pointed at the event you are recording while at the same time looking up info on it. At best, you are likely to end up with a bumpy and shaky video, because no way will you be able to keep the device completely steady while tapping, swiping and pushing buttons to switch apps and do the necessary manipulation to look up the info.

1, even a bumpy video is better than no video at all.

2, not necessarily a third person should ask you a question. It can be you yourself who quickly needs some info ("hey, do I have an appointment today?" and the like).

darngooddesign
Jun 24, 2013, 11:23 AM
Yes, they did hint on the new multitasking features are only refreshing and the like in the keynote. Of course they didn't state "Sorry, but don't expect anything multi-windowing (like Quasar) or snap mode (like that of Windows RT)".

I didn't expect that kind of functionality because Apple didn't demo that kind of functionality.

Night Spring
Jun 24, 2013, 11:41 AM
1, even a bumpy video is better than no video at all.

2, not necessarily a third person should ask you a question. It can be you yourself who quickly needs some info ("hey, do I have an appointment today?" and the like).

And when would you really need to look up info so urgently that you'd settle for a bumpy video? I can't think of any. I do think multitasking is a feature many people do want, but I really think recording video at the same time you are looking up info *on the same device* is so impractical, it doesn't make a good example of how multitasking could be useful on a mobile device.

TroyBoy30
Jun 24, 2013, 11:49 AM
In your opinion. A lot of Cydia (Quasar) / AppStore (CineXPlayer, Video DS DualScreen Video Player etc.) customers have a completely different opinion about splitscreen multitasking being a "gimmick".[COLOR="#808080"]

.

so happy for them.

Menneisyys2
Jun 24, 2013, 11:57 AM
And when would you really need to look up info so urgently that you'd settle for a bumpy video? I can't think of any. I do think multitasking is a feature many people do want, but I really think recording video at the same time you are looking up info *on the same device* is so impractical, it doesn't make a good example of how multitasking could be useful on a mobile device.

1. It was an example of why letting the camera keep running in the background can be useful.

2. think of long recording sessions you in no way want to pause not to lose a precious moment you can't anticipate (e.g., your son's scoring).

cheekyjeremy
Jun 24, 2013, 12:33 PM
It would be great if we could pin only specific apps to the multi-tasking function. If you still have to scroll through every app that's been open since you cleared it out to get to the one you want, it can sometimes be faster to just close and open the app you want. Multi tasking is a function that has the potential to help my specific needs a lot, but really would only be effective if I could limit what apps are in it. If I could pin 2-3 specific apps in a specific order in there, it would be perfect

darngooddesign
Jun 24, 2013, 12:38 PM
Sadly, Apple has discontinued the 17" MBP line, my favorite one. 15" screens (let alone 13" ones), the only ones with decent Retina screens (rMBP's), are just too small for me (I don't want to use external monitors) so I'm stuck with my WUXGA 17" MBP model. Which is really pixelizated compared to my retina iPad. As are MBA's, BTW. No wonder I (and a lot of other people with low-res notebooks) prefer the iPad.

Since a lot of people who prefer the iPad pefer the Mini, a large high res screen doesn't seem to be as compelling as you think it is.

Menneisyys2
Jun 24, 2013, 12:44 PM
Since a lot of people who prefer the iPad pefer the Mini, a large high res screen doesn't seem to be as compelling as you think it is.

Well, that's them. I couldn't myself live with a non-Retina screen.

darngooddesign
Jun 24, 2013, 12:53 PM
Well, that's them. I couldn't myself live with a non-Retina screen.

Obviously you can since you are still using a 17" MBP when there are Retina 15" MBPs. So in your case size is more important that screen resolution which is true for a lot of people in regards to the ipads.

Menneisyys2
Jun 24, 2013, 12:59 PM
Obviously you can since you are still using a 17" MBP when there are Retina 15" MBPs. So in your case size is more important that screen resolution which is true for a lot of people in regards to the ipads.

The 17" has other advantages over the 15" rMBPs, in addition to the larger screen estate:

- second drive bay (I have an 256G SSD + 1 TB HDD combo
- 3 USB
- FW 800
- much more self-serviceable

darngooddesign
Jun 24, 2013, 01:01 PM
The 17" has other advantages over the 15" rMBPs, in addition to the larger screen estate:

- second drive bay (I have an 256G SSD + 1 TB HDD combo
- 3 USB
- FW 800
- much more self-serviceable

So you can live without a retina screen if the other benefits are more compelling as opposed to a blanket statement that you couldn't live without a retian screen.

Menneisyys2
Jun 24, 2013, 01:13 PM
So you can live without a retina screen if the other benefits are more compelling as opposed to a blanket statement that you couldn't live without a retian screen.

Apples to oranges.

I use iPad definitely more (for fun / entertainment / web) than my 17" MBP (for work). Also entering this on the iPad.

zhenya
Jun 24, 2013, 02:21 PM
I think that much of what you want, despite framing it as otherwise, is really only appealing to a tiny tiny minority of Apple's customers. We aren't likely to see changes like these made to appease that minority when the side effects would almost certainly include an increase in system instability and reduction in battery life. Those are the two things that the iPad has in spades over the competition right now, and while I too have certain things I'd like my iPad to do more like a regular computer, I'd rather keep the appliance-like reliability.

Apple has never, ever been about giving the customer lots of choices or, in iOS, leaving certain decisions 'up to the user' etc. I'm not sure where you got the idea they were?