Doing serious voodoo dancing to get Win8 boot camp

Cape Dave · Jun 25, 2013

on my new mini. Have all drivers downloaded (windows support drivers) not sure what they are as I have not been able to get to the point where I need them.

Win8 simply does not like the Bootcamp partition and does not think it will be bootable. See attached. I have tried with win8 on a USB thumb drive, not trying with a burned CD. Same thing.

I am at a loss. I actually wanted to use my mini with the nice Vector SSD in it rather than make it my life's work to install Win8. I wonder if Win7 would work??? I have a disk for that as well.

Any help much appreciated. Dave

hfg · Jun 25, 2013

You have to format the partition for NTFS first.

Select "Drive Options", then format. Be sure to format the correct partition.

Cape Dave · Jun 25, 2013

Thanks! I did that to no avail, still says may not be able to boot from, etc. And then I cannot click the next button. Question, when Boot Camp creates the partition, does it not format it with NTFS? Isn't that sort of the whole point? But anyways, I have formatted, deleted part and recreated and then formatted, all to no avail. Also, Win7 did the same thing. Just cannot get past that section

I wonder if Apple would help?

Stooby Mcdoobie · Jun 25, 2013

Cape Dave said:
Question, when Boot Camp creates the partition, does it not format it with NTFS? Isn't that sort of the whole point?

Nope. Boot Camp Assistant essentially just runs a script that creates a partition and labels it BOOTCAMP. Advantage to this is you don't have to go into Disk Utility and do it yourself (i.e. it's "user friendly"). OS X cannot natively create NTFS volumes, so it's up to the Windows installer to do the reformatting.

hfg · Jun 25, 2013

Bootcamp does not format NTFS, you have to use Windows install to do that at the point you did the screenshot above.

Your Windows partition is #4 and everything looks good.

You will use the Bootcamp drivers you downloaded once Windows is fully installed and running.

What machine are you installing to?

Good luck...

Cape Dave · Jun 25, 2013

I am installing to a brand new mac mini with my own OCZ Vector 512GB SSD. OK, I get that part about the formatting, but I have had Windows format it at that point multiple times and it just will not accept any input after that, saying "this drive may not boot, check BIOS for drivers" or something like that. And since OSX is up and running fine, I figure the BIOS knows there is a drive there

Exact Error message: Windows cannot be installed to this disk. This computer's hardware may not support booting to this disk. Ensure that the disk's controller is enabled in the computer's BIOS menu.

This is insanity. Like after formatting, Windows 8 cannot see the disk. That is JUST formatted

New photo:

hfg · Jun 25, 2013

I assume you intend to devote most of your disk to Windows?

Did the format operation complete successfully?

Cape Dave · Jun 25, 2013

hfg said:
I assume you intend to devote most of your disk to Windows?

Did the format operation complete successfully?

Yes, I am switching from my old clunky desktop to the mini for the mini, not OSX.

The format does complete. I am studying this thread here:

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1599409/

It seems to have the same issue as me. Is it as simple as restarting the mini after the format??? I have turned it off and on only to have it boot to an unbootable disk. Is there a proper key combination to restart the mini? Or should I do the OPTION button and choose the windows, or even better the EFI disk?

I may try this as it seems to give windows the MBR which it needs. I suspect that somehow the MBR is not getting onto the partition when I am installing in the usual manner.

http://www.tech-recipes.com/rx/9839/how-to-manually-partition-boot-camp-your-mac-for-windows-7/

hfg · Jun 25, 2013

You should probably use the "option" key when rebooting, and then select the Windows icon which will return you to where you were after a fresh restart. Hopefully that will make a difference in how it proceeds.

What are you loading Windows from ... disk, USB flash, ???

I doubt the "EFI' boot will work for you ... seems to be something new with the latest MB Airs.

Cape Dave · Jun 25, 2013

I have tried DVD, self made USB drive, Boot Camp made USB Drive with drivers downloaded from Bootcamp. It just cannot get past the format. This time it said could not install BECAUSE there is an MBR on the partition. Which is what I thought was supposed to be there! Yikes, this is totally not how I want to spend my nights.

I guess manual partitioning as per this is my last hope:

http://www.tech-recipes.com/rx/9839/how-to-manually-partition-boot-camp-your-mac-for-windows-7/

Cape Dave · Jun 26, 2013

If I had a plan B, I would do it now. The Intel NUC is a nice small computer but not nearly as cool looking as the MAC mini.

I am sure I could get Win8 on one with no ado whatsoever. But I could not use my nice Vector 512GB SSD which was a big plus for the Mac mini.

And NUC's are hard to find and do not yet have i7's.

But other than that, I am stumped. It does seem that for many Win8 does go on the mini. I am not doing anything different. Could it be my nice Vector SSD? I think not as OSX is running fine on it.

I am out of options

hfg · Jun 26, 2013

Your SSD should be formatted "GUID" ... did you set that when you first partitioned/formatted it after receiving it new?

Cape Dave · Jun 26, 2013

hfg said:
Your SSD should be formatted "GUID" ... did you set that when you first partitioned/formatted it after receiving it new?

I did a secure erase of SSD as I moved it from another machine, then formatted it however Internet Recovery did it.

I am going to paste my response from another thread on this forum and I suspect this is the actual answer:

Win 8 will not go on Boot Camp. Period. I suspect that the SSD is in the "wrong" position. This is where the issues began. After I had the mini apart, the stock drive was in the wrong slot. Impossible to replace without special tools.

OK, I had a pro put the SSD drive in. OSX installed and all is good. But I think win8 needs SATA 0 for the drive to install, and I think the SSD was placed in the same position as the stock drive, which must be SATA 1. That does not bother OSX, but Win8 will not and I mean WILL NOT install on the drive in that position.

I say this so that others may save themselves three days of pure hell. This is only my suspicion, but I think it is the last remaining possibility as I have tried all else.

I do not have the dexterity, patience, or proper tools to again open the mini to buy a new SATA cable and try my theory out

I hope this helps someone else

hfg · Jun 26, 2013

You may be right here, I had read that the newer Minis were coming with the drive installed in the upper (near case top) drive bay which caused problems when ordering a second drive installation kit which normally would be sized for that same location. I assume you don't have 2 disks in there, which also would prevent the Windows installer from completing?

You might be able to remove the disk and temporarily plug it into the other SATA port in order to install Windows, then move it back to the current position when you are done. I seem to recall that it will boot and run from either position, just won't install except from the primary SATA channel. The cables don't have enough length to do this without removing the drive.

I have a 2011 Mini with a 512GB SSD in the lower (original) position, and then moved the 1TB hard drive to the upper position with a installation kit. I have both OS X and Windows 7 installed on the SSD, initially using the hard disk as a separate data disk. However, I now have the OS X portion of the SSD in a DIY Fusion drive with the hard disk ... Windows still on the SSD partition as well.

BTW - you probably don't want to secure erase a SSD!

Cape Dave · Jun 26, 2013

Yes HFG, I think this is most likely the issue. I am just not going to open it up again and deal with all those tiny plugs, etc. I tihnk your idea owuld work for sure.

This is about the only downside I can see in transitioning from my big desktop, it (the mini) is much harder to work on

I used the OCZ software to secure erase as that resets the SSD to as close to new as possible I understand. I do not think that is what is causing this issue. I think Win8 is simply idiotic and will not install on a drive that is not first in line.

Thanks for your excellent assistance. My biggest thing now is learning about Fusion and/or Parallels. I need to understand where my work files are (they will be in windows) so I can do my usual backup routines.

I have never used a "virtual" machine as my main computer. I am sure many do.

I will have a sharp eye on the next mini

Computers are my hobby as well as used for work, so my budget is bigger than most, thankfully. I do not need the very latest/fastest, but I like to be in the ballpark. And when something like a new interface for the SSD comes out, I like to get on board fast.

MJL · Jun 28, 2013

@ Cape Dave

Had yesterday exactly same problem but then remembered something from last year.

Basically when I have a USB memory key inserted and the install DVD then I get the same error - removed the USB memory key (with the bootcamp drivers) and all was well - install proceeded without a hitch. After install insert memory key and install bootcamp.

PS tried both VMware and Parallels and they did not perform to my satisfaction - too many issues.

Cape Dave · Jun 28, 2013

Thanks MJL, I read that somewhere also and tried it to no avail. I am really hoping that Parallels will work for me. I know it will temporarily as I am using it currently.

But although I am impressed with it, the freaking clock is screwed up. And no fix yet. I will be calling them. That does not bode well for a robust solution if the damn clock does not even work properly

And one thing I was really looking forward to was a clean install of Windows on a fresh new SSD and the near instantaneous speed of that. Sure, Parallels is not slow, but I can tell OSX is faster, and you know that bugs me

Taking it apart, switching SATA positions, installing Win8 (hopefully) while it is apart, then switching SATA positions back again before re-assembly seems to be my only option. And if that did not work, I would jump out a Window (pun unavoidable)

For now, Parallels allows me to do my work.

Thanks for everyone's input. This forum rocks!

Cape Dave · Jun 28, 2013

!

I just had a weird thought. Maybe Win 8.1 would install correctly!

Must be the masochist in me.

Dalton63841 · Jun 28, 2013

If you got the mini but just want to use Windows, why not forgo Boot Camp and just boot into the Windows Installer and format the entire disk clean and install JUST windows on it. It's almost definitely caused by some error in the GPT/MBR hybrid partition table. Formatting the drive clean would solve that by making it MBR only.

Cape Dave · Jun 28, 2013

Dalton63841 said:
If you got the mini but just want to use Windows, why not forgo Boot Camp and just boot into the Windows Installer and format the entire disk clean and install JUST windows on it. It's almost definitely caused by some error in the GPT/MBR hybrid partition table. Formatting the drive clean would solve that by making it MBR only.

Hmm, I thought I had tried that but maybe not. I was not sure if that was possible, but I am more than wiling to try that. I would need to put my current Windows PVM on an external booter if that is possible just so I would have a fallback position.

I am going to look into that. I think that is precisely what I want, even more than a dual booter. If I had to I could use MAC OS but I just have no real reason to as all my stuff is in windows.

Dalton63841 · Jun 28, 2013

Cape Dave said:
Hmm, I thought I had tried that but maybe not. I was not sure if that was possible, but I am more than wiling to try that. I would need to put my current Windows PVM on an external booter if that is possible just so I would have a fallback position.

I am going to look into that. I think that is precisely what I want, even more than a dual booter. If I had to I could use MAC OS but I just have no real reason to as all my stuff is in windows.

If it still won't work this way, you may need to boot into a flash drive Mac installer and use Disk Utility to format the internal drive with an MBR partition table, but that shouldn't be necessary.

Cape Dave · Jun 28, 2013

Dalton63841 said:
If it still won't work this way, you may need to boot into a flash drive Mac installer and use Disk Utility to format the internal drive with an MBR partition table, but that shouldn't be necessary.

I have been doing Internet recovery every time I reinstall OSX. Is there a trick I need to know to getting a MAC Flash installer?

I just may give this a go, but it does erase everything I have done so far and I am scared that for some reason it will not work because the SSD is STLL in the second position, and I am for some crazy reason almost positive that this is the reason Win8 will not install. Not that Win8 does not have a flaky install program as well, but I really think this is a strong possibility for simply not installing on SATA1 as opposed to SATA0.

Anyways, I have moved the PVM file to the original spinner that came with the mini. It boots into OSX and has parallels on it and it runs my huge PMV file, but MUCH slower than the SSD for sure

I am gonna ponder this. Worst case, I could do Internet recovery yet again, install Parallels, (which, BTW, I bought!) and be up and running with my current Windows 8 PVM in a few hours. Hmmmmm.

Dalton63841 · Jun 28, 2013

Cape Dave said:
I have been doing Internet recovery every time I reinstall OSX. Is there a trick I need to know to getting a MAC Flash installer?

I just may give this a go, but it does erase everything I have done so far and I am scared that for some reason it will not work because the SSD is STLL in the second position, and I am for some crazy reason almost positive that this is the reason Win8 will not install. Not that Win8 does not have a flaky install program as well, but I really think this is a strong possibility for simply not installing on SATA1 as opposed to SATA0.

Anyways, I have moved the PVM file to the original spinner that came with the mini. It boots into OSX and has parallels on it and it runs my huge PMV file, but MUCH slower than the SSD for sure

I am gonna ponder this. Worst case, I could do Internet recovery yet again, install Parallels, (which, BTW, I bought!) and be up and running with my current Windows 8 PVM in a few hours. Hmmmmm.

Look up Lion DiskMaker to make a flash drive installer. As far as the hard drive position, I can't imagine how it would make a difference. I've got Windows 8 on my desktop and it makes no difference what position the drive is in. Not to mention that on my Macbook Pro I have Windows 8 installed to a partition on the drive in my optical bay, while Mac is installed in the normal bay.

Cape Dave · Jun 28, 2013

OK, I will check that out. This could be really good news if it works. This has been like a lost week of messing about. I do enjoy it though. And have learned a bit about my new mini, which I really do like.

duervo · Jun 28, 2013

What I'm about to type here assumes that your drive has been partitioned as an MBR disk, and not a GPT one.

In order for Windows to install on the drive listed in the screenshots, it has to be using a GPT style partitioned disk.

If it's MBR style, then Windows is not going to install because it will want to create a 5th partition (primary) labeled as "System Reserve", that's usually around 300MB in size, but you can't have more than 4 primary partitions on an MBR-partitioned disk.

If you're getting that message, then I suspect that your drive is partitioned as MBR, and not GPT. Windows cannot create a new primary partition for its System Reserve drive, because you already have the max number of primary partitions. If that is indeed the case, back up whatever you need on the OS X side of things, and then completely repartition the drive as GPT, and not MBR. Then, reinstall OS X, and then do your Bootcamp procedure again.

Doing serious voodoo dancing to get Win8 boot camp

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