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MacRumors
Jul 5, 2013, 04:49 PM
http://images.macrumors.com/im/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2013/07/05/apple-stores-to-sell-square-stand-point-of-sale-system/)


Apple Retail Stores will begin offering Square's iPad-based point-of-sale system, Square Stand (https://squareup.com/stand), on July 9, reports 9to5Mac (http://9to5mac.com/2013/07/05/apple-retail-square-partner-to-sell-ipad-based-square-stand-beginning-july-9/).

First introduced (http://www.macrumors.com/2013/05/14/square-pushes-further-into-the-cash-register-business-with-the-square-stand/) in May, the Square Stand is a cash register replacement that features both a secure iPad stand and an integrated card reader. It is also able to support additional peripherals like a receipt printer, kitchen printer, cash drawer, and barcode scanners.

http://images.macrumors.com/article-new/2013/05/squarestand.png
Unfortunately, the Square Stand is only able to function with iPads that use a 30-pin dock connector, making it compatible with the iPad 2 and the third generation iPad.

Apple is expected to begin offering the Square Stand at a number of retail stores on Tuesday, July 9, and it will retail for $299.

Article Link: Apple Stores to Sell Square Stand Point-of-Sale System (http://www.macrumors.com/2013/07/05/apple-stores-to-sell-square-stand-point-of-sale-system/)



iHateMacs
Jul 5, 2013, 04:55 PM
I hope it can be securely fixed to prevent toe rags running off with it.

kockgunner
Jul 5, 2013, 04:59 PM
No, those have Lightning connectors so they aren't compatible.

macs4nw
Jul 5, 2013, 05:06 PM
No, those have Lightning connectors so they aren't compatible.

Carefully read the post. For legibility, I agree, they should have added the word 'only', at the end of the sentence.

caseyh
Jul 5, 2013, 05:39 PM
Does anybody have any insight into why they wouldn't support the Lightning connector? Is there a technical reason?

Delta-NC
Jul 5, 2013, 05:56 PM
Not compatible with Europe :p

Surely they could add a chicken pin reader to this?

Amazing Iceman
Jul 5, 2013, 07:16 PM
I hope it can be securely fixed to prevent toe rags running off with it.

I read the base securely attaches to the desk by either a strong adhesive or screws (not sure which one).

They should make one with Lightning connector support.

Mr.Dave
Jul 5, 2013, 07:34 PM
Ya I assume a lightning compatible kit will be out soon, otherwise this seems kind of crazy.

Although on the other hand I'm sure businesses like the lower price point of the older models (and won't need the retina/extra power).

Qaanol
Jul 5, 2013, 07:36 PM
So what you are saying is that Apple now sells PoS products?



…sorry, it had to be done.

KiwiAdventure
Jul 5, 2013, 07:48 PM
Seems odd ave old products only stands

funandblindness
Jul 5, 2013, 07:54 PM
Seems odd ave old products only stands

Another reason Apple products have great resell value. The newest ipad would be a waste for something that will see much abuse.

gnurf
Jul 5, 2013, 08:14 PM
Not compatible with Europe :p


Yeah, magnetic strips were recently banned because of all the hacking and abuse where I live. The PoS stand is not much use in modern countries :)

Beezzy
Jul 5, 2013, 09:15 PM
$10 for the Square Reader adaptor or $300 for this...well, time to drop $300! ;)

tremlock
Jul 5, 2013, 09:25 PM
Nothing like being a year outdated on your day of release

\-V-/
Jul 5, 2013, 09:35 PM
Not supporting the new connectors is quite stupid. :/

Lancer
Jul 5, 2013, 10:11 PM
I was at an auto shop the other day and they had custom enclosures for a couple of iPads so customers could locate the right oil and other parts for their car. You would not know it was an iPad apart from the Apple iOS menu at the top of the display.

macs4nw
Jul 5, 2013, 10:50 PM
So what you are saying is that Apple now sells PoS products? …sorry, it had to be done.

Yes, they are third party Point-of-Sale payment systems, for small business owners. That's what you meant, right? ;)

Carlanga
Jul 5, 2013, 11:59 PM
EDIT: people on the internet are weird sometimes

macpeach55
Jul 6, 2013, 12:25 AM
What happens if I want to pay w old cold hard cash?

I believe that for these circumstances Apple recommends that the purchaser also uses a Human Interface Device, or "Human" for short, who is fitted with the "wallet" system. This then allows cash purchases to be accepted

gkarris
Jul 6, 2013, 12:31 AM
What happens if I want to pay w old cold hard cash?

The Square app allows many forms of payment, cash being one of them.

mw360
Jul 6, 2013, 01:20 AM
Does anybody have any insight into why they wouldn't support the Lightning connector? Is there a technical reason?

I would guess that redesigning costs money, adding a licensed lightning adapter costs money, and the market for the product doesn't need that feature. After all, why would you buy the top-end iPad just to run a sales processing app?

\-V-/
Jul 6, 2013, 02:33 AM
After all, why would you buy the top-end iPad just to run a sales processing app?
I believe that should up to consumer.

matrix07
Jul 6, 2013, 03:51 AM
iPad 2 is already overkill for this, so I say smart thinking on Square's part. Have a nice big screen but really cheap iPad. Of course Lightning connector will come when iPad 3 and 4 price drop significantly.

antonis
Jul 6, 2013, 04:17 AM
iPad 2 is already overkill for this, so I say smart thinking on Square's part. Have a nice big screen but really cheap iPad. Of course Lightning connector will come when iPad 3 and 4 price drop significantly.

I agree that you don't need the latest and greatest iPad for such tasks, making older and cheaper models way more efficient. But, on the other hand, there is no availability for the older iPads, at least in big enough numbers to cover PoS sales. Are they targeting only on 2nd hand iPads ?

k1121j
Jul 6, 2013, 04:47 AM
POS os right. Sooo where does the cash go.. 300 bucks for an ipad stand give me a break it looks great thats about it

Tysknaden
Jul 6, 2013, 05:35 AM
I would guess that redesigning costs money, adding a licensed lightning adapter costs money, and the market for the product doesn't need that feature. After all, why would you buy the top-end iPad just to run a sales processing app?

You know... buying this product costs money, too.

imageWIS
Jul 6, 2013, 06:08 AM
Yeah, magnetic strips were recently banned because of all the hacking and abuse where I live. The PoS stand is not much use in modern countries :)

As someone who had his credit card illegally replicated and swiped in a state 500 miles away... the use of pin numbers on CC's instead of signatures as they do in Europe is an excellent idea.

Optheduim
Jul 6, 2013, 07:05 AM
Before I spent eight grand on a POS system, I heavily looked into all these new systems for iPad. Much cheaper in the long run.

My biggest turn off was the CLOUD service. I do not want my businesses' information on the net. Plain & Simple.

I'm a big apple fan, but is a 100% no no....

kamuikabucchi
Jul 6, 2013, 09:15 AM
I believe the reason for the 30 pin connector is to create a market for the ipad 2's and agree with everyone saying a 4 is total overkill, Apple has been using ipad 2's as smart signs in their own stores for years now, why not finally share the goodness.

Magnetic strips need to be an option seeing as some people don't have cards with chips, if the card has a chip most PoS systems require it to be used, but its your own fault if you decide not to go to a bank and upgrade your own security.

" It is also able to support additional peripherals like a receipt printer, kitchen printer, cash drawer, and barcode scanners. "

In my opinion its everything most businesses would need at a cheaper cost, better visual, and easier to use and teach than that of most PoS systems already out there.

PLin
Jul 6, 2013, 09:18 AM
My biggest turn off was the CLOUD service. I do not want my businesses' information on the net. Plain & Simple.


I used to be against cloud services for POS, but in the past few years, I've experienced a few hardware failures with my PC-based restaurant POS system, which resulted in significant downtime from scrambling to buy a new PC or hard drive and restoring the data.

With the Square Stand, you can just buy another iPad or grab a spare from somewhere, and you're up and running again with hardly any downtime at all. However, the Square app lacks a lot of features that expensive POS solutions have, so I'll have to play around and see if there are any deal breakers.

gmpirate
Jul 6, 2013, 09:36 AM
Before I spent eight grand on a POS system, I heavily looked into all these new systems for iPad. Much cheaper in the long run.

My biggest turn off was the CLOUD service. I do not want my businesses' information on the net. Plain & Simple.

I'm a big apple fan, but is a 100% no no....

Perhaps you should research more :) There are iPad systems that can use a Mac Mini as a local server instead of a cloud.

Lavu & Revel are my top choices right now. Lavu is my preference but they do not have a customer database feature yet to support delivery. Revel has it, but I am not as impressed with their feature set.

There are a number of iPad stands out there available for retail environments.

demodave
Jul 6, 2013, 09:46 AM
Image (http://www.macrumors.com/2013/07/05/apple-stores-to-sell-square-stand-point-of-sale-system/)


Apple Retail Stores will begin offering Square's iPad-based point-of-sale system, Square Stand (https://squareup.com/stand), on July 9, reports 9to5Mac (http://9to5mac.com/2013/07/05/apple-retail-square-partner-to-sell-ipad-based-square-stand-beginning-july-9/).

First introduced (http://www.macrumors.com/2013/05/14/square-pushes-further-into-the-cash-register-business-with-the-square-stand/) in May, the Square Stand is a cash register replacement that features both a secure iPad stand and an integrated card reader. It is also able to support additional peripherals like a receipt printer, kitchen printer, cash drawer, and barcode scanners.

Unfortunately, the Square Stand is only able to function with iPads that use a 30-pin dock connector, making it compatible with the iPad 2 and the third generation iPad.

Apple is expected to begin offering the Square Stand at a number of retail stores on Tuesday, July 9, and it will retail for $299.

Article Link: Apple Stores to Sell Square Stand Point-of-Sale System (http://www.macrumors.com/2013/07/05/apple-stores-to-sell-square-stand-point-of-sale-system/)

The title of the article certainly got my attention, because, even though the Square Stand is a third-party product and not necessarily 100% up to Apple's standards, selling it at Apple Stores will get it some more attention, and it will probably give potential purchasers a bit more confidence in the product (and maybe a higher level of support from Apple? At the Genius Bar, perhaps?).

I don't really know how *big* the market is for small-business Point-of-Sale systems (for hopefully obvious reasons, I would rather avoid the PoS abbreviation!), but the market plays into other observations around Apple potentially getting into sales and monetary transactions systems outside the confines of the Apple Store and the Online Store. Peer-to-peer ad hoc wifi networks and a fingerprint sensor on an iDevice (be it a watch or a phone) that is always with the shopper have pretty strong potential for secure transactions.

This little Square Stand might help lead us in that direction. And this new cooperation between Apple and Square might also hint a further cooperation/co-option in the future....

Carlanga
Jul 6, 2013, 11:56 AM
I believe that for these circumstances Apple recommends that the purchaser also uses a Human Interface Device, or "Human" for short, who is fitted with the "wallet" system. This then allows cash purchases to be accepted

The Square app allows many forms of payment, cash being one of them.

yes, but the stand is what I'm asking. THey are saying upgrade your register, when in fact you would need a separate place to keep the cash so more space and less secure IMO unless you can add a money box add on or something.


IMO This is just a plastic stand w/ a $300 app, paypal can even give you free swipers for cards for the iphone and such so IMO this is way overpriced. Make it $100 w/ stand and it would be a good deal.

JBSiegelMD
Jul 6, 2013, 12:25 PM
I shop at a number of places that use Square to accept credit card payments. I find the small Square readers to be noticeably less reliable in reading magnetic strip cards than are the dedicated PoS terminals with more robust card readers in them.

At one restaurant I frequent, the iPad is left with the reader sometimes unattended at their font desk, not a very secure method at all. So a system like this which is cheap (yes, $300 is dirt cheap) and can secure the iPad as well as providing a higher quality card reader is probably going to do well.

As for the Europe/Non-US Chip-PIN folks, this isn't designed for you. Almost no one in the US has Chip-PIN cards. Until recently, without a great deal of effort, they were almost impossible to obtain here. It's the problem of inventing and then deploying widely a technology that has long-term downsides. The rest of the world, doing more copying rather than inventing, gets to learn from our mistakes (GSM is a prime example of where Europe took a technology we invented and made it much better).

The complete absence of Chip-PIN terminals here means we need to continue to rely on this very insecure system we have until Apple replaces it with something better :D Tim Cook, we're waiting

Chabba
Jul 6, 2013, 12:39 PM
yes, but the stand is what I'm asking. THey are saying upgrade your register, when in fact you would need a separate place to keep the cash so more space and less secure IMO unless you can add a money box add on or something.


IMO This is just a plastic stand w/ a $300 app, paypal can even give you free swipers for cards for the iphone and such so IMO this is way overpriced. Make it $100 w/ stand and it would be a good deal.

https://squareup.com/stand
It's compatible with cash drawers. My friend has her drawer bolted up, under the counter.

InfoTime
Jul 6, 2013, 01:12 PM
Before I spent eight grand on a POS system, I heavily looked into all these new systems for iPad. Much cheaper in the long run.To be clear; you're saying the $8,000 POS system is cheaper in the long run? Why is that?

mw360
Jul 6, 2013, 02:44 PM
I believe that should up to consumer.

So you think consumers should be able to call these guys up and tell them what to sell, regardless of how little business sense it makes for them? And, in case you missed it, this is not a consumer product. It's not marketed to technology addicts who want the latest model of iPad, its for business owners who could seriously not give a damn whether it has a Retina screen or not.

You know... buying this product costs money, too.

Really haven't a clue what your point is, and I suspect vice versa.

ElTorro
Jul 6, 2013, 05:29 PM
Does anybody have any insight into why they wouldn't support the Lightning connector? Is there a technical reason?

Probably iit s relying on the analog input.

jasomill
Jul 6, 2013, 10:37 PM
To be clear; you're saying the $8,000 POS system is cheaper in the long run? Why is that?

Not sure what the OP was thinking, but as I understand it, all-in-one systems like Square don't support third-party credit card processing services, so you're forever at the mercy of the system vendor's fee schedule. For a store with considerable credit card sales volume, the difference between Square and cheaper processing options could easily exceed $8,000.

lostngone
Jul 6, 2013, 11:49 PM
To be clear; you're saying the $8,000 POS system is cheaper in the long run? Why is that?

Every business owner I have talked to says Square doesn't scale very well and their transaction percentage fee on CC isn't very good.

dazed
Jul 6, 2013, 11:58 PM
As someone who had his credit card illegally replicated and swiped in a state 500 miles away... the use of pin numbers on CC's instead of signatures as they do in Europe is an excellent idea.

Canada does PIN numbers too, but when I bring my card across the border I just need to swipe. They would need to introduce pins worldwide and not allow just a swipe and signature to combat is.

Of course none of this combats online illegal usages......

Risco
Jul 7, 2013, 06:33 AM
I hope it can be securely fixed to prevent toe rags running off with it.

It is a sad world, but this is the sort of thing low life scum in the UK would try and steal.

NightFox
Jul 7, 2013, 09:33 AM
What happens if I want to pay w old cold hard cash?

That's why it says it can connect to a cash drawer

SeattleMoose
Jul 7, 2013, 11:32 AM
Connector limited? So just put out a version with the Lightning connector. This is not exactly rocket science with this level of electrical engineering and software....building to a spec.

charlituna
Jul 7, 2013, 02:04 PM
As someone who had his credit card illegally replicated and swiped in a state 500 miles away... the use of pin numbers on CC's instead of signatures as they do in Europe is an excellent idea.

This is one of the reasons why I wish these stands and software would support a dual iPad system. That way you can have the cashier view and a cx view where they can see what is being put in, type their pin, enter email for a receipt or whatever. Without the need for twisting things back and forth.

----------

I believe the reason for the 30 pin connector is to create a market for the ipad 2's and agree with everyone saying a 4 is total overkill, Apple has been using ipad 2's as smart signs in their own stores for years now, why not finally share the goodness.



But the way that Apple does it they could switch any time and when minimal effort. It would just be a change in a cable.

Would this be as easy or would it require a whole new stand.

----------

The title of the article certainly got my attention, because, even though the Square Stand is a third-party product and not necessarily 100% up to Apple's standards,


If it wasn't then it wouldn't be sold in their stores or on their site



(and maybe a higher level of support from Apple? At the Genius Bar, perhaps?).



Genius Bar is for Apple products only. Folks needing support with other products have to go to the manufacturer or handle it as a consumer law issue in countries with those rules but that really just comes down to having an extended return/exchange policy.

Verbatim Cookie
Jul 7, 2013, 03:11 PM
Really haven't a clue what your point is, and I suspect vice versa.
Isn't the vice versa of the statement I really haven't a clue what your point is the statement Your point of view really hasn't a clue what I am?

mw360
Jul 7, 2013, 04:38 PM
Isn't the vice versa of the statement I really haven't a clue what your point is the statement Your point of view really hasn't a clue what I am?

Well I'm not sure, since my areas of expertise are the spelling of ridiculous, and the construction of the phrase couldn't care less.

Nevertheless I'm fairly sure vice versa isn't strictly limited to the transposition of subject and object, and is therefore prone to ambiguity. I'm absolutely sure though, that vice versa is an adverb and so your phrase the vice versa of a is b makes as much grammatical sense as the quickly of slow is fast.

:p

blitzer09x87
Jul 7, 2013, 06:03 PM
i wish i had not sold my ipad 3. can it work with a 30 pin to lightning connector?
i hope they soon bring out another which works with the ipad 4.

beaniemyman
Jul 7, 2013, 06:34 PM
it's strange to see that they decided to go with the old 30 pin port than the new lightning port.

philryan
Jul 7, 2013, 07:59 PM
... The rest of the world, doing more copying rather than inventing, gets to learn from our mistakes (GSM is a prime example of where Europe took a technology we invented and made it much better).

GSM was created in Europe, based most closely on the Nordic Mobile Telephony 450 MHz (launched to the public in 1981 and still operating in some countries). And NTT of Japan launched a mobile phone technology in 1979.

Hell, the Germans used radio-based telephones in WW2.

The first US mobile phone network didn't start up until 1983.

Take your blinkers off. Not everything is invented in the US of A.

:)

Menel
Jul 7, 2013, 08:01 PM
it's strange to see that they decided to go with the old 30 pin port than the new lightning port.

IPad 2's are much cheaper, the interface is more well known and cheaper and business don't need zomg Retina. 1024 res is fine.

\-V-/
Jul 7, 2013, 08:59 PM
So you think consumers should be able to call these guys up and tell them what to sell, regardless of how little business sense it makes for them? And, in case you missed it, this is not a consumer product. It's not marketed to technology addicts who want the latest model of iPad, its for business owners who could seriously not give a damn whether it has a Retina screen or not.
No matter who is buying it... they're a 'consumer' of the product. I'm well aware this is for small business owners looking for an affordable PoS system... I'm just saying the lack of options there is a little surprising. I'm sure they'll add it later... and right now I've no use for an iPad, but this thing may just give me an excuse to get one when I start my biz possibly sometime next year. It's certainly a cool idea and I've used the Square phone app quite a lot for side jobs and such. I'm sure if this catches on enough it'll evolve to be quite a system.

And what do you know what business owners give a damn about? I would certainly prefer the higher rez screen... considering it makes the menu text easier to read, among other things.

And considering the Retina iPad is only 100 dollars more than the iPad 2...

NightFox
Jul 8, 2013, 03:14 AM
As for the Europe/Non-US Chip-PIN folks, this isn't designed for you. Almost no one in the US has Chip-PIN cards. Until recently, without a great deal of effort, they were almost impossible to obtain here. It's the problem of inventing and then deploying widely a technology that has long-term downsides. The rest of the world, doing more copying rather than inventing, gets to learn from our mistakes (GSM is a prime example of where Europe took a technology we invented and made it much better).

I don't think this is the case - it's not as if Europe adopted credit cards using Chip and PIN from the off; up until a few years ago we used the same magnetic strip/signature combination on our cards just like you do in the U.S. So, in fact, with a population of more than double that of the U.S. (though credit/debit card usage may be more directly comparable) I would imagine the transition to the Chip & PIN system was probably no less of a challenge for Europe than it would be for the U.S, indeed the number of different countries involved could have added to the difficulties.

greg12345a
Jul 8, 2013, 04:31 AM
I don't think this is the case - it's not as if Europe adopted credit cards using Chip and PIN from the off; up until a few years ago we used the same magnetic strip/signature combination on our cards just like you do in the U.S. So, in fact, with a population of more than double that of the U.S. (though credit/debit card usage may be more directly comparable) I would imagine the transition to the Chip & PIN system was probably no less of a challenge for Europe than it would be for the U.S, indeed the number of different countries involved could have added to the difficulties.

It depends from country I guess but in Poland most of the transactions with credit cards are done via PIN system.

jjwarwick
Jul 8, 2013, 08:05 AM
Canada does PIN numbers too, but when I bring my card across the border I just need to swipe. They would need to introduce pins worldwide and not allow just a swipe and signature to combat is.

Of course none of this combats online illegal usages......

In Europe we have chip and pin for store transactions, and 3D secure (Verified by Visa/Mastercard Securecode) for online transactions. It's basically a PIN number you use online within a retailers checkout.

Both of these technologies are about 5 years old and in the UK are certainly mandatory. I have no idea why the US banks would ignore technologies that have significantly reduced fraud.

iThinkIt
Jul 8, 2013, 08:49 AM
What happens if I want to pay w old cold hard cash?

enter a cash sale... :rolleyes:

dontwalkhand
Jul 8, 2013, 01:51 PM
enter a cash sale... :rolleyes:

People here just don't read or something. Adding a cash drawer isn't that hard, and for people complaining about extra peripherals, most POS systems have separate cash drawers

Cubytus
Jul 10, 2013, 11:31 AM
I don't think this is the case - it's not as if Europe adopted credit cards using Chip and PIN from the off; up until a few years ago we used the same magnetic strip/signature combination on our cards just like you do in the U.S. So, in fact, with a population of more than double that of the U.S. (though credit/debit card usage may be more directly comparable) I would imagine the transition to the Chip & PIN system was probably no less of a challenge for Europe than it would be for the U.S, indeed the number of different countries involved could have added to the difficulties.

Chip-PIN only give the illusion of security. In reality, chip-PIN was broken back in the mid-80's, when it was first deployed in payphone cards (EU having a problem with vandalism, coin phones are all but almost extinct. And besides, communication prices typically varies according to the time of the day so makes more sense to bill per unit than for a fixed price). The engineer who found the vulnerability was imprisoned for publishing it.

Only low-end fraudsters can be defeated with chip-PIN cards, and most fraud still happen by installing trapped payment terminals at willing retailers' stores, or by snatching a pic of both sides of credit cards. Even the chip can't do anything against that.

But relax, even EU retailers can take magstripe + signature from Americans who don't have a chip. I am not sure what happens when you want to pay with a chip-PIN in a non-chip-PIN enabled retailer. Properly configured terminals will ask for magstripe I guess.

I still come accross customers who just replaced their chipless cards with a chipped one. AFAIK deployment was not really sped up here in Canada, and I guess is still limited by how fast retailers upgrade their payment terminals. As some of them must pay a large premium to upgrade, they don't have any incentive to accept chipped cards.

kockgunner
Jul 10, 2013, 12:27 PM
Carefully read the post. For legibility, I agree, they should have added the word 'only', at the end of the sentence.

I think someone changed or deleted their comment. I was replying to someone who suggested the article should say its compatible with the iPad mini and 4th Gen iPad.

macs4nw
Jul 11, 2013, 12:04 AM
I think someone changed or deleted their comment. I was replying to someone who suggested the article should say its compatible with the iPad mini and 4th Gen iPad.

That makes more sense. My apologies.

Verbatim Cookie
Jul 15, 2013, 02:41 AM
Well I'm not sure, since my areas of expertise are the spelling of ridiculous, and the construction of the phrase couldn't care less.

Nevertheless I'm fairly sure vice versa isn't strictly limited to the transposition of subject and object, and is therefore prone to ambiguity. I'm absolutely sure though, that vice versa is an adverb and so your phrase the vice versa of a is b makes as much grammatical sense as the quickly of slow is fast.

:p
ಠ_ಠ Antiquis temporibus, nati tibi similes in rupibus ventosissimis exponebantur ad necem.