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generik
Nov 10, 2005, 12:26 AM
Wow.. only now did I realise how the lines are annoying me.

It seems like when you look at what'd normally be a constant patch of color (ie: a message composition textbox like the one in the forums, which is white) you can actually see it kinda "shimmering" because the color is not quite constant.

The eye strain from this is really sick from extended use. Pfft, I can use my other NEC monitor for up to 10 hours at a stretch without barely a hint of a headache, but this monitor is really making my eyes smart in 2.

I really hope the next round of updates will be better :mad:

Nermal
Nov 10, 2005, 12:28 AM
I've never noticed that on either of my Apple LCDs, with the exception of in Virtual PC. Do you have the resolution set correctly?

mad jew
Nov 10, 2005, 12:30 AM
Me neither. What has Apple said to you? Have they offered a replacement? :)

Fukui
Nov 10, 2005, 12:46 AM
Wow.. only now did I realise how the lines are annoying me.

It seems like when you look at what'd normally be a constant patch of color (ie: a message composition textbox like the one in the forums, which is white) you can actually see it kinda "shimmering" because the color is not quite constant.

Isnt that usually caused by a bad VGA connection? Are you using a DVI monitor?

Nermal
Nov 10, 2005, 12:50 AM
Appears to be a PowerBook.

Fukui
Nov 10, 2005, 01:02 AM
Appears to be a PowerBook.
Well, that sucks.

Hope they take it back or give him an exchange.

radiantm3
Nov 10, 2005, 01:18 AM
Wow.. only now did I realise how the lines are annoying me.

It seems like when you look at what'd normally be a constant patch of color (ie: a message composition textbox like the one in the forums, which is white) you can actually see it kinda "shimmering" because the color is not quite constant.

The eye strain from this is really sick from extended use. Pfft, I can use my other NEC monitor for up to 10 hours at a stretch without barely a hint of a headache, but this monitor is really making my eyes smart in 2.

I really hope the next round of updates will be better :mad:

I think you just got a bad apple. I doubt every single powerbook is like that. Don't you think giving up on OS X because of faulty hardware that will be replaced is a bit overboard?

Mechcozmo
Nov 10, 2005, 01:19 AM
Doesn't sound normal...

OnceUGoMac
Nov 10, 2005, 01:19 AM
I smell a troll. He's done nothing but started complaint threads.

generik
Nov 10, 2005, 01:29 AM
I brought my PB down to the local nextbyte apple retailer and they told me all 15" PBs are like this.. and that I should contact Applecare.

Anyhow I'm not worried about the refund etc... at the end of the day I bought it as a student, and I can probably just as easily pawn it on ebay too..

Sigh, really sad.. I do like MacOS but their hardware is kinda lousy considering the amount it costs!

I am not demanding that it is perfect. But let's take for instance:
I purchased an Eizo 19" LCD for 60% more than the bottom of the barrel monitors before, but when I unpack it.. I got 100% made in Japan quality, no light fall off, no smudgy text, no shimmer, nothing. *Perfect*

Then I got a NEC 2080UX+, made in China, but not bad kualetty, in fact except for the chassis that feels a little "solid" as compared to the eizo, the colour rendition is excellent and accurate, in the sense of the word you can literally "feel" the velvetty smoothness of color on this monitor (incidentally a mac site did a review of this vs the ACD and concluded this one is way better, which was why I bought it)

Now contrast with the PB.. when it first came the eject button was a wee bit out of place, and I had to press down on it really hard before it "looks" correct again. Monitor color sucks. Heinous eye strain looking on it. Battery is a wee bit out of alignment but I am really not bothered by details like these. But really, I guess the final yoke that broke the camel's back is the display.. it seems like the backlight is somewhat not very consistent in areas, which while not noticeable at all during the day, becomes very obvious when you use the laptop at night, and are working on something with a black background. And of course, the lines.

I really can't understand why Apple can't fracking buy a more expensive LCD for this. Come on, it costs so much more than an equivalent Centrino notebook, I bet those G4 chips are sold at like 10 to a penny by now, given how dated they are.

Pentium Ms are cutting edge, they are expensive, and yet I see them used in cheaper laptops, with superior screens!

That is something I just can't stomach.

macer1
Nov 10, 2005, 01:38 AM
well bye bye :)

I switched from windows too mac about 4 years ago, at work they provide me with a nice thinkpad. Now this is a nice computer but it lackes one thing, a OS that doesnt wet the bed every time you turn it on.

If you wana go back to windows be my guest BUT all i know is my 15' powerbook's screen has YET to give me any trouble since i bought it.

you got a bad apple and the service teck you talked , well is dumb. If every 15' powerbook was like that then why would apple ship them. cnet and other product reviewers would throw apple to the wolfs.

but then again what do i know, your the one going back to windows.....

risc
Nov 10, 2005, 01:43 AM
I went to an Apple reseller today and had a look at the new 15" PowerBooks and yeah those horizontal lines would drive me crazy, not crazy enough that I'd give up OS X, but I'd be seriously considering another computer.

840quadra
Nov 10, 2005, 01:53 AM
I am not going to look through your post history, but have you ever attempted to calibrate your screen?

Change font smoothing?

Change resolutions to see if it is worse better?

mcarnes
Nov 10, 2005, 01:54 AM
Definitely a troll. Don't feed them people, just leave them be.

hopejr
Nov 10, 2005, 02:12 AM
No, generik isn't a troll. If you read the "Horizontal Lines in New Powerbooks (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=158751)" thread, you'd realise that he's not the only person with the issue. It's a common problem with the 15" Rev. E PowerBooks. It's sounding more and more like it's just a firmware issue though.

risc
Nov 10, 2005, 02:13 AM
quoting generik from: http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=158751&page=12

Anyone managed to get it fixed?

I am really torn between returning my PB before next Tuesday, or keep hoping that it can be indeed be repaired.

Yeah he's really a troll (not) , that thread has heaps of people complaining about the same thing, I've seen it with my own eyes, and there is definitely a problem with some of the new screens. Maybe generik could of acted differently but I know I'd be pissed too if it was my Mac.

NewbieNerd
Nov 10, 2005, 02:17 AM
Hey I love that OS-X trick, 840quatra. You got any more of those?! :) (We can make this thread something more interesting than a guy giving up on Apple after one faulty product)

generik
Nov 10, 2005, 02:23 AM
quoting generik from: http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=158751&page=12

Anyone managed to get it fixed?

I am really torn between returning my PB before next Tuesday, or keep hoping that it can be indeed be repaired.

Yeah he's really a troll (not) , that thread has heaps of people complaining about the same thing, I've seen it with my own eyes, and there is definitely a problem with some of the new screens. Maybe generik could of acted differently but I know I'd be pissed too if it was my Mac.

Well it is easy for you to sit back and talk, it is not your mac!

What really tipped me off is when I met up with a mate today, and we were exchanging some files, and after I just commented about the screen issue, he came over, took a close look at it, and concluded that there indeed are lines on the screen.

On the other hand his Toshiba has such a gorgeous screen! :mad:

Lower res than the current PB's one, but nice nonetheless.

And he got a faster running PM processor, slightly lower res screen, and of course an uglier chasis for significantly than my nice looking oven with a bunk screen.

I am not saying the PB is overpriced, if it delivers it is definitely very very worth it.. but let's see. The 17" doesn't have these issues, the 12" is *beyond* such issues since it is so tiny to start with, but why must the 15"?

Anyway prior to this I did spend a couple hours looking through Apple's support forums, only to see thread after thread of the same issue.. locked. Why? Afraid to hang dirty linen in public?

Really speak loads of AppleCare doesn't it?

Chrispy
Nov 10, 2005, 02:31 AM
I can't say that I blame you at all for being upset about this as it is crap that Apple would even release the new powerbooks knowing of issue. It is NOT acceptable to have lines in the screen of professional level laptop. I considered going back to PC after getting a new iMac that was bad and then a new PowerBook with the lines in the screen. I ended up getting another iMac and it worked great. I have now traded it for a Dual 1.8 PowerMac. I really love the mac OS and it is really the only thing keeping me on the Apple side at the moment. When it came down to getting a monitor for the PowerMac the choice was simple... DELL. I just do not trust Apple's displays at all after having countless Apple laptops with bad pixels and uneven screen lighting. The Dell has been getting better reviews and costs less. If it was not for OSX I would be using a PC now as well... its sad Apple drives away business with bad quality control...

Oh, and my new Video iPod had a dead pixel and only gets 4 hours of battery life.. PLAYING MUSIC haha! I am taking it back to the Apple Store in Indianapolis for an exchange before the 14 days are up. Bad Apple... Bad! :mad:

MacTruck
Nov 10, 2005, 02:33 AM
Really speak loads of AppleCare doesn't it?



Yeah, applecare used to be good now its like a standard warranty and they want you to buy pro care to get good service. Sorry, $350 for a powerbook warranty is enough they aren't getting $99 a year too. Damn rippoff if you ask me. 3 yr warranty should be standard period.

Take the junker back man, I would. Besides the screen isn't that much better than the rev d that I have. Its only like 100 pixels larger, big deal. The rev ds are better anyway. Doesn't have the block on power managment and has all the same goodies as rev e without the screen problems. There isn't more battery life in the new ones, they just locked the power management to keep it on lower usage now. F that.

Go on ebay and pick up a new in box rev d for $1700. Then get applecare off of ebay for it for $200. You will be set.

MacTruck
Nov 10, 2005, 02:37 AM
Here you go. Its loaded. This is just one of many.


http://cgi.ebay.com/APPLE-POWERBOOK-G4-15-NEW-1-67GHz-1GB-100GB-UPGRADES_W0QQitemZ5828418327


Or this one


http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-Apple-15-PowerBook-1-67GHz-SuperDrive-M9969LL-A_W0QQitemZ5827842155

or even this: Good seller...

http://cgi.ebay.com/APPLE-POWERBOOK-G4-1-67GHz-15-2-SUPERDRIVE-LAPTOP-NEW_W0QQitemZ5826877683


and a great deal on applecare...

http://cgi.ebay.com/APPLE-CARE-PROTECTION-WARRANTY-for-POWERBOOK-APPLECARE_W0QQitemZ5828192130

Abstract
Nov 10, 2005, 04:27 AM
Do the people who call others "a troll" actually go and read the various threads around here?

Its a massive problem for people with the new 15" PBs. Nobody give a hoot about you or your 15" PowerBook that you got 2 years ago.


If you wana go back to windows be my guest BUT all i know is my 15' powerbook's screen has YET to give me any trouble since i bought it.

That's nice, buddy. Are his screen problems any less real now?

If I just spent that much money on a slow-ish laptop with a bad screen just because it was a Mac, I'd be pissed off too. Even if it came with a small scratch, it would hurt. A bad screen is much worse than that. And if any of you haven't seen one of the new 15" PBs with the "bad" screen, then go find one. They're not hard to find.

I'm a PhD student with my own office, so I obviously have lots of time to look through the threads. Generik doesn't seem like a troll at all.

In fact, some of you seem more troll-ish than him right now.

840quadra
Nov 10, 2005, 04:38 AM
Hey I love that OS-X trick, 840quatra. You got any more of those?! :) (We can make this thread something more interesting than a guy giving up on Apple after one faulty product)

I recommend searching the forums for these tricks. Or check back on my signature from time to time :)

otherwise the link below has a few of them.

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=96575&highlight=reverse+colors

generik
Nov 10, 2005, 06:38 PM
I actually spent 1 hour on the phone with Applecare today.. no go, they claimed it is a normal. Perfectly normal.

Oh well, I guess I will get keep it and sell it in time for MWSF.. perhaps the "next mystery update" will fix it :(

tekmoe
Nov 10, 2005, 06:58 PM
I actually spent 1 hour on the phone with Applecare today.. no go, they claimed it is a normal. Perfectly normal.

Oh well, I guess I will get keep it and sell it in time for MWSF.. perhaps the "next mystery update" will fix it :(

why are you being treated differently than some of the other people that are having the same issue on these boards? i have read numerous posts where they have been given the option to get an exchange or have theirs repaired. why are they telling you it is normal???

contoursvt
Nov 10, 2005, 07:30 PM
Ya I'm sure he's a troll... I'm sure there isnt anyone else like the bunch in here that have noticed problems with the display http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=158751

Must be a troll. :rolleyes:


Seriously, as soon as someone has an issue and has anything bad to say, he or she is a troll :confused:

hopejr
Nov 10, 2005, 10:14 PM
Seriously, as soon as someone has an issue and has anything bad to say, he or she is a troll :confused:

Not if the issue is legitimate, like this one is.

contoursvt
Nov 10, 2005, 10:36 PM
Well this seems like a legit issue if others are noticing some display issues. Maybe he's not wording it right or is frustrated but there is a possibility that he's going through what the other guy or guys were.

Chrispy
Nov 10, 2005, 11:32 PM
why are you being treated differently than some of the other people that are having the same issue on these boards? i have read numerous posts where they have been given the option to get an exchange or have theirs repaired. why are they telling you it is normal???

Apple really varries a lot from location to location or from person to person on the phone. Many times I had to call back numerous times to finally get my way in the past. I do not think this guy is a troll he is just frustrated that he spent $2,000 on a laptop that does not work perfectly (as should be expected for the price you pay). We should be doing our part to help him feel welcome at MR and see it as a place to vent some frustrations. I would hate to see this user switch back to windows completely but even I am considering picking up a cheap toshiba laptop for mobile use (since it won't be online that much). Lets all be a friendly family here :)

James Philp
Nov 11, 2005, 12:07 AM
Bad Apples do exist.
So do bad Dells, Toshiba's and so on.
I hope for a lot of people's sake that this is a firmware issue - it may well be.
Let's all step back a second to cool off.
I think the term "troll" was used because it was a long time before the O/P replied to his own topic. This can seem strange because often you start a topic because you need help/advice, and so it is presumed you will check the progress often.
Also, the title of the thread could be construed as "trollish".
"Faulty 15" PB display driving me away from Apple" would have been better, but of course no way near as catchy! :)

generik I'm sorry about you're situation man, it sucks big time. I'm no stranger to problems with Apple products also, but (after 6 years on the platform) the thought of going back to windows for me right now makes me feel a little ill. I don't even know what spyware, malware etc. are! - I would last like 2 seconds back in a Wine environment! Looks, features and working-wise also, I believe OS 10.4 is WAY ahead of Windows right now.

My advice would be to kick up a lot more of a fuss! - A display which gives you (remember this) bad migraines and sore eyes after short amounts of use, that you KNOW is not the normal (you have seen other friend's PBs remember!;) ) SHOULD be replaced.

As has been said before, other people have been successful in this issue, so when it comes down to it, so should you.

I really hope you can get it sorted out - I almost kick myself everyday that I am using OS X - it's easy to forget how much better it is than Wine.

generik
Nov 11, 2005, 03:08 AM
I don't know man... now my PB is constantly plugged to my big monitor with a KVM switch which is kinda... silly for a laptop.

At the end of the day I will probably sell it early next month or something, go back to Windows-land for a month or so, and wait till MWSF before trying another Apple device. I have to say they are really cutting corners quite a lot lately, which is really sad.. it truly is. With Thinkpads being made by Leveno now, and all these issues that even affect Apples, it seems like even if you are shelling out good money you can't get quality anymore.

I really think what we collectively as consumers should do is to being back the good old fashion consumer backlash.. or class actions.. or whatever. Whatever happened to legitimate customer complains? Oh, they probably can't hear you over the constant ringing of cash tills and crazed fanboys calling out their orders.

But hey, who am I to say.. America has the highest national debt of all countries in the world, this is a deaf audience.

generik
Nov 11, 2005, 03:14 AM
Anyhow the words of that product specialist just came up on my mind and I can't help but find it funny despite how absurb it is.. I posted that on the horizontal lines thread.

Reality distortion field for the win!

But nah, I probably won't bother dealing with customer services anymore, to think that they are there to actually help the customer is plain naive. They are salaried workers, and they probably have their orders as well. Good thing I bought it on EDU, so it still doesn't hurt me that much, a quick change of hands will probably just lose me 50-100 or maybe even nothing at all. I *will* probably be scummy in the future and just go EDU all the way even when I leave college. No way do you expect me to pay full retail after being stuffed over this round. Especially when I do not have the full assurance that I will be receiving something that'd satisfy my expectations, not that I have high expectations to start with. I just want something that I have no issues to pick with, that's all.

FFTT
Nov 12, 2005, 12:33 AM
If you're not happy with your PowerBook during the 1st 14 days of ownership you should take it back for an exchange or a refund.

It's that simple.

MacTruck
Nov 12, 2005, 03:27 PM
If you're not happy with your PowerBook during the 1st 14 days of ownership you should take it back for an exchange or a refund.

It's that simple.


Yeah for a restocking fee. Thats not simple.

wildcard
Nov 12, 2005, 04:15 PM
There are other alternatives besides Windows and OS X. Some Linux distributions have come a long way in terms of being friendly and easy to use. I'd recommend Ubuntu (http://www.ubuntu.com) to any first time Linux user.

FFTT
Nov 12, 2005, 05:28 PM
This horizontal line issue is well known and quite well publicized.

Hopefully Apple will release a firmware update to solve this issue soon.

I would go back to the AppleStore while still under the no questions policy and
politely but firmly insist on a replacement and then ask that you be able to bench test it before leaving the store.

jadekitty24
Nov 12, 2005, 05:35 PM
I understand your frustration, believe me, I do. Just don't let this push you away from the Mac world altogether. No matter where you go or what you buy the possibility always exists that you may be one of the unfortunate few to receive a below par computer. It happens all the time and doesn't mean that you won't be happy with a Mac. I'm sorry to hear of your misfortune and wish you luck. I don't believe you are trolling, just a customer with a legitimate concern. If I spent $2000 on a computer I would want it to be as good as advertised. It can sometimes be hard to comprehend that such an expensive machine could be shipped with existing flaws, but like I said, it happens. Again, good luck.