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MacRumors
Jul 26, 2013, 02:24 AM
http://images.macrumors.com/im/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2013/07/26/l-a-unified-school-district-to-give-students-31000-ipads-this-year/)


The Los Angeles Unified School District is planning to give all of its students free iPads by the end of 2014 as a part of a program launched by the district, reports (http://www.citeworld.com/tablets/22178/ipad-los-angeles-unified-school-district)CITEWorld. The program, which will see a total of 640,000 iPads handed out, is part of an initiative to improve education for students and to ready them for the workforce by enhancing their technological skills and comprehension.

http://images.macrumors.com/article-new/2013/07/ipad_for_education-800x319.jpg
The district plans to distribute 31,000 iPads to 49 of its 1,124 K-12 schools to begin with during the first phase of the program, with plans to begin distributing the rest throughout 2013 and 2014. Each of the iPads will come preloaded with digital textbooks from educational books publisher Pearson."The most important thing is to try to prepare the kids for the technology they are going to face when they are going to graduate," said Hovatter. "This is phase one, a mix of high school, middle school, and elementary students. We're targeting kids who most likely don't have their own computers or laptops or iPads. Their only exposure to computers now is going to be in their schools."Apple has long had a heavy focus on the educational market, discounting its product lineup for students. Last month, Apple announced (http://www.macrumors.com/2013/06/19/apple-scores-30-million-ipad-contract-from-l-a-unified-school-district/) that it had been awarded a $30 million deal from the LA Unified School District to bring iPads into its schools and the company has also been in talks about a huge educational deal (http://www.macrumors.com/2013/02/01/apple-executives-meet-with-turkish-president-to-discuss-4-5-billion-ipad-education-initiative/) with the Turkish President.

Article Link: L.A. Unified School District to Give Students 640,000 iPads by End of 2014 (http://www.macrumors.com/2013/07/26/l-a-unified-school-district-to-give-students-31000-ipads-this-year/)



afawcett
Jul 26, 2013, 02:38 AM
huge fat waste. still, wish i got an ipad. wish i got anything.

komodrone
Jul 26, 2013, 02:51 AM
all the students are going to install snapchat.

Davejprince
Jul 26, 2013, 04:21 AM
An iPad is simply not good for a school.
Real paper textbooks > displays.

irDigital0l
Jul 26, 2013, 04:32 AM
Man I remember when my school got iPads...everyone just played with Photobooth.

lol

macs4nw
Jul 26, 2013, 04:58 AM
Wonder if these iPads are going to get free engraving? ;) (with the LAUS logo, of course)

MonkeySee....
Jul 26, 2013, 05:02 AM
What is a kid going to do with 31,000 iPads?

mrsir2009
Jul 26, 2013, 06:16 AM
Man I remember when my school got iPads...everyone just played with Photobooth.

lol

Haha, that's what happened when my old primary school got MacBooks :D

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An iPad is simply not good for a school.
Real paper textbooks > displays.

Why? Most other industries are being computerised... Why not education?

Shrink
Jul 26, 2013, 06:19 AM
When I was in school, we were given stuff, too. A stone tablet, hammer and chisel to take note. Pretty advanced stuff for us!

It seems to have changed a little over time...:p

iMikeT
Jul 26, 2013, 06:35 AM
Oh why oh why oh why doesn't the LAUSD hire more teachers and improve the current state of the schools in the district, especially in the poorest of areas, instead of buying 31,000 iPads?

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for technology and the future but I also believe in strengthening the foundations of academia before a top-down approach.

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When I was in school, we were given stuff, too. A stone tablet, hammer and chisel to take note. Pretty advanced stuff for us!

It seems to have changed a little over time...:p


Stone tablet huh? Did you go to school with Moses? :p

Shrink
Jul 26, 2013, 06:40 AM
Stone tablet huh? Did you go to school with Moses? :p

That guy with the beard? He was a year behind me in school.

Not sure if he made anything of himself...he was a cut-up in school.

charlituna
Jul 26, 2013, 06:44 AM
Oh why oh why oh why doesn't the LAUSD hire more teachers and improve the current state of the schools in the district, especially in the poorest of areas, instead of buying 31,000 iPads?


They can't. Not with this money. It came from a bond that was voted on by the tax payers and has very firm restrictions on how it can be used. Hiring teachers isn't one of those approved uses. To change it would require a whole new vote etc.

ArtOfWarfare
Jul 26, 2013, 06:49 AM
Oh why oh why oh why doesn't the LAUSD hire more teachers and improve the current state of the schools in the district, especially in the poorest of areas, instead of buying 31,000 iPads?

I'm sorry, but I have two things to say about that:

1 - It's ludicrously expensive. Employees in general are expensive - they're the most expensive thing most businesses have. Salaried unionized government employees are in an expense category all to themselves - for every teacher they hire that's 100+ undiscounted annual iPads they can't get. They could afford maybe 310 teacher-years if they chose not to get the iPads.

2 - It's inefficient. Most teachers can handle class sizes of 30-40 students - I seriously doubt that they have class sizes larger than that right now, given most schools aim to have 12-18 students per teacher.

litmag01
Jul 26, 2013, 07:01 AM
all the students are going to install snapchat.

It's a good thing Apple Configurator exists.

Val-kyrie
Jul 26, 2013, 07:12 AM
When I was in school, we were given stuff, too. A stone tablet, hammer and chisel to take note. Pretty advanced stuff for us!

It seems to have changed a little over time...:p

At least you were give your stone tablet. We had to make ours, and that was after we bought the hammer and chisel from the school.:D

bniu
Jul 26, 2013, 07:12 AM
An iPad is simply not good for a school.
Real paper textbooks > displays.

The year is 2013, time for next generation textbooks! I hated those physical textbooks back in the day, so heavy and so useless!

Shrink
Jul 26, 2013, 07:19 AM
I'm sorry, but I have two things to say about that:
2 - It's inefficient. Most teachers can handle class sizes of 30-40 students - I seriously doubt that they have class sizes larger than that right now, given most schools aim to have 12-18 students per teacher.

I'm assuming you are a teacher, or the assertion highlighted might be considered ridiculous.

Giving those students in need of some additional attention is impossible in a class of 30-40 students.

Perhaps the teachers you know feel a class size of 30-40 is a good size...my ex, who was a teacher, and the other teachers I know say different. Giving the kids enough individual attention requires a class size just a bit smaller than 30-40.

I believe there is more than enough research to support the assertion that a class size of 30-40 is way too large for effective teaching.

(Since I don't have a research source for that statement, take it for what it's worth.)

Desterado
Jul 26, 2013, 07:23 AM
Let's keep something in mind. They're giving them to students who don't have computers at home?

When they say give, are they letting these students take these home? If so, this is a terrible idea.

Students who cannot afford computers at home are probably the poorest and least likely to treat this property with care.

iMikeT
Jul 26, 2013, 07:27 AM
They can't. Not with this money. It came from a bond that was voted on by the tax payers and has very firm restrictions on how it can be used. Hiring teachers isn't one of those approved uses. To change it would require a whole new vote etc.


So this is where 0.01% of the county tax I pay goes?

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That guy with the beard? He was a year behind me in school.

Not sure if he made anything of himself...he was a cut-up in school.


Perhaps this is what he looked like in his youth....

https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/2179273543/spicoli2.jpg

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I'm assuming you are a teacher, or the assertion highlighted might be considered ridiculous.

Giving those students in need of some additional attention is impossible in a class of 30-40 students.

Perhaps the teachers you know feel a class size of 30-40 is a good size...my ex, who was a teacher, and the other teachers I know say different. Giving the kids enough individual attention requires a class size just a bit smaller than 30-40.

I believe there is more than enough research to support the assertion that a class size of 30-40 is way too large for effective teaching.

(Since I don't have a research source for that statement, take it for what it's worth.)


I hear the same thing from the primary education teachers I know, some say 25 is too much to handle.

Johnny Vegas
Jul 26, 2013, 07:31 AM
Say what you will about a textbook, but at least it's durable, relatively inexpensive, can be used outside, and not a target for thieves.

ValSalva
Jul 26, 2013, 07:57 AM
Education has always been very important to Apple. Get them while they are young, just like the tobacco companies used to ;)

But seriously, how is this anything but good news?

charlituna
Jul 26, 2013, 08:28 AM
It's a good thing Apple Configurator exists.

Exactly. The assumption here is that LAUSD is just going to hand them to the kids and let them have at it. But you can bet they will still be district property and thus restricted with firm rules about getting expelled for damaging school property if you try to restore it etc to get around said restrictions.

oneMadRssn
Jul 26, 2013, 08:44 AM
I'm assuming you are a teacher, or the assertion highlighted might be considered ridiculous.

Giving those students in need of some additional attention is impossible in a class of 30-40 students.

Perhaps the teachers you know feel a class size of 30-40 is a good size...my ex, who was a teacher, and the other teachers I know say different. Giving the kids enough individual attention requires a class size just a bit smaller than 30-40.

I believe there is more than enough research to support the assertion that a class size of 30-40 is way too large for effective teaching.

(Since I don't have a research source for that statement, take it for what it's worth.)

I've read some interesting research that suggeste that the students per teacher metric is flawed for the very reason you brought up; it doesn't contemplate individualized attention.

For example, (1) the traditional model x random students per one single teacher; say 20 students for simplicity.

However, (2) some new teaching methods use 100 students per four specialized teachers; each teacher having a different specialty. The theory goes that if a certain student needs more attention in a certain area, he/she will be more successful if they see a teacher who is a specializes in that area or for that problem; which extrapolated out results in a more efficient environment.

So both result in 20 students per teacher; but really the two situations are vastly different.

myrtlebee
Jul 26, 2013, 08:48 AM
I would imagine most kids already have an iPad in their home. This will be a good excuse to fool around in and outside of class under the excuse of "reading textbooks". I hope when they say "give" they mean lend to each student during class time and not give to them to keep for free. What a waste of resources.

ps45
Jul 26, 2013, 09:18 AM
I would imagine most kids already have an iPad in their home...

You are kidding right? People can't really be that sheltered, and haven't been since Marie Antoinette!

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Let's keep something in mind. They're giving them to students who don't have computers at home?

When they say give, are they letting these students take these home? If so, this is a terrible idea.

Students who cannot afford computers at home are probably the poorest and least likely to treat this property with care.

Wow, what an obnoxious comment. So you'd be happier if the program restricted access to those who already own a computer? Your disdain for those kids who happen to be born poor... mindblowing. And ignorant.

I don't think this is money well spent, but not because it's being targeted to help those in need, just because I think it should be spent on other things.

jonnysods
Jul 26, 2013, 09:27 AM
Bet the apple sales guy fainted when that order came in!!

mj1108
Jul 26, 2013, 09:29 AM
It's a good thing Apple Configurator exists.

Yup! Good thing it exists! :)

gatearray
Jul 26, 2013, 10:08 AM
Most kids are fascinated by technology, the iPad especially, and there is a boat load of educational software in the App Store. Anything that encourages kids to show up to school and feel inspired to learn is a good thing.

myrtlebee
Jul 26, 2013, 10:35 AM
You are kidding right? People can't really be that sheltered, and haven't been since Marie Antoinette!

I don't understand your comment, but, no, I am serious. It is not cheap to live in LA, and I would assume most homes have an iPad by now. Total waste.

MikeIsAUser
Jul 26, 2013, 10:47 AM
The year is 2013, time for next generation textbooks! I hated those physical textbooks back in the day, so heavy and so useless!

Funny - taken in sarcasm of course - but it does make me think that those who designed and developed all these new electronic devices learned how by reading those physical textbooks.

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Let's keep something in mind. They're giving them to students who don't have computers at home?

When they say give, are they letting these students take these home? If so, this is a terrible idea.

Students who cannot afford computers at home are probably the poorest and least likely to treat this property with care.

And do they have internet access at home if they don't have a computer and a router?

Laird Knox
Jul 26, 2013, 11:01 AM
Students who cannot afford computers at home are probably the poorest and least likely to treat this property with care.

Seriously, who let those filthy vagabonds in the building with civilized people?!

Kurri
Jul 26, 2013, 11:43 AM
wow this is what my tax money is going to...

OrangeSVTguy
Jul 26, 2013, 11:45 AM
huge fat waste. still, wish i got an ipad. wish i got anything.

So you think it's better for kids to carry around a 40lb. bookbag with Multiple books in it?

You sound bitter because you got nothing.

bedifferent
Jul 26, 2013, 11:55 AM
I'm 36, is it too late to enroll? :o

weing
Jul 26, 2013, 12:56 PM
An epic waste of taxpayer funds. Like all initiatives in public education that only live to serve the parasitic public employee unions and are meaningless in terms of actual education.

Chupa Chupa
Jul 26, 2013, 01:35 PM
Absurd to GIVE these to students. Loan them like normal text books, yes, but for the school system not to reuse them (as normal text books are) is an insane waste of $. If I were an LA property taxpayer I'd be a bit incensed.

And what happens to these iPads when a student drops out, gets expelled, or has a persistent pattern of not doing their homework, reading, etc. If they don't need the iPad b/c they aren't doing the work they don't need the iPad. It shouldn't be an unqualified gift for doing nothing.

Also when a student breaks or loses the device, what then? Is it replaced gratis and ad infinitum? So many questions to be answered.

Shrink
Jul 26, 2013, 01:38 PM
An epic waste of taxpayer funds. Like all initiatives in public education that only live to serve the parasitic public employee unions and are meaningless in terms of actual education.

No sweeping over generalizations here...nope.

donutbagel
Jul 26, 2013, 02:03 PM
GIVING them iPads?! This is exactly why I never trust them when they ask to increase taxes for school. This is just retarded.

Aragrist
Jul 26, 2013, 02:25 PM
The LA unified school district is a failure of a system. How about taking that $30,000,000 and using it to acquire more teachers. I'm guessing that more than half the free iPads will be sold for drugs and the other half will be used for viewing porn in the school bathrooms during class.

Of course I didn't see anywhere in the article if the kids actually get to take the iPads home and keep them or if they are simply going to be available during class time and be kept in the classroom. One would hope for the latter or like I said, most will be sold.

ps45
Jul 26, 2013, 10:40 PM
I don't understand your comment, but, no, I am serious. It is not cheap to live in LA, and I would assume most homes have an iPad by now. Total waste.

I somewhat agree that it's a waste of resources, but I think you're confusing LA with Beverly Hills if you think most people will own one. Begin your journey of discovery by reading about the city's varied demographics here: http://maps.latimes.com/neighborhoods/

donnaw
Jul 27, 2013, 03:16 AM
Let's keep something in mind. They're giving them to students who don't have computers at home?

When they say give, are they letting these students take these home? If so, this is a terrible idea.

Students who cannot afford computers at home are probably the poorest and least likely to treat this property with care.

So according to you, so-called 'poor' people don't know how to treat property with care? I've got news for you, the financial situation of a child's parents has absolutely nothing to do with the care and respect they give their children and what kind of responsibilities they pass on to their kids.

I happen to know kids who come from both the 'poorer' financial situations and kids whose families are well-off. From my experience kids who have nothing are much more respectful of 'things' simply because they don't have much. Kids who are given a lot of 'things' simply expect their parents to replace anything they misuse.

Please try to understand, you cannot and should not paint every person with such wide brushes. That's the biggest problem in our country right now. People simply have stereotyped those not like themselves. Labeling them as 'others' all the while not even knowing any of them personally. People have siloed themselves with others who they see as 'like themselves' and refuse to see that the stereotypes they think exist simply do not. People are far too different and each one should be judged on their own. MLK said it best, we all should judge others by the "content of their character and not the color of their skin". Seems we need to add their family's financial situation to that statement too.

As for the expense, well apparently the voters of LA voted for this plan. It's 'the will of the people' and frankly it might work out well. I'm sure some kids will not treat the iPads with respect but I'm just as sure that those kids will come from every type of family situation imaginable. But writing them off immediately, before even giving them a chance, certainly doesn't give them any help so that they may actually improve their lives and move up in the world. If we as a society, don't provide that support then we are simply creating and sustaining a social order of perpetual second-class citizens.

myrtlebee
Jul 27, 2013, 08:38 AM
I somewhat agree that it's a waste of resources, but I think you're confusing LA with Beverly Hills if you think most people will own one. Begin your journey of discovery by reading about the city's varied demographics here: http://maps.latimes.com/neighborhoods/

Sigh. My point was that in any major city in the US, chances are most households have a computer or an iPad already, hence no need to "give" any to students. I can see a case being made to lend them to students during class time, but to give them to keep or to being home is foolish and is basically buying a $500 toy for these kids.

ps45
Jul 27, 2013, 12:10 PM
Sigh. My point was that in any major city in the US, chances are most households have a computer or an iPad already, hence no need to "give" any to students. I can see a case being made to lend them to students during class time, but to give them to keep or to being home is foolish and is basically buying a $500 toy for these kids.

No, you this was not your point. Go back and read your earlier comments.

MacDaddy15
Jul 27, 2013, 02:04 PM
Colleges, universities, and industry are pushing blended and online education. Publishers(Pearson comes to mind), are responding by putting their various titles online (e-textbooks). 9-12 education is going that way as well. Ipads (& other tablets) are merely tools for use in the classroom. K-8 is already using them (laptops, touches, etc) with "cows" in each classroom. All great ideas with potential. However, the issue is whether or not districts & teachers are ready for this new type of teaching. Furthermore, all districts across the country are transitioning to Common Core. Curriculum is being altered as I type this. 90% of teachers are not ready for this new technology as districts do not know, either. So, the issue is who will be the first district to take the plunge, try, and create the new curriculum for this technology? Why LAUSD. They are the litmus test on how districts across the country can make use of this technology. My district, two hours north of LA is already watching LAUSD in how they implement and distribute the Ipad. So, give LAUSD a break, let us see what happens, and hopefully positive changes will occur in the classroom. :D
p.s. I am a current H.S. teacher who has taught from standard to AP. So, yes, I do know what I am typing about. :)

Cody3133
Jul 27, 2013, 03:44 PM
My school is only buying 2500 MBA'S for students and teachers. :(

gnasher729
Jul 27, 2013, 03:57 PM
An iPad is simply not good for a school.
Real paper textbooks > displays.

Have you heard of iBooks Author? Makes it quite easy to create electronic textbooks that are actually superior to real paper textbooks.

kilcher
Jul 27, 2013, 04:04 PM
Just wait until the thugs get wind of this, bunch of little kids walking home from school with what is basically $500 in their backpack.

Hopefully they'll have to leave them at school. And hopefully the school will secure them. Hundreds or thousands of iPads in one place is going to be a big temptation for someone.

beaniemyman
Jul 27, 2013, 06:31 PM
yeah, and then the student will install chat apps and chat during class, great!
i so wanna be there!

myrtlebee
Jul 28, 2013, 08:58 AM
No, you this was not your point. Go back and read your earlier comments.

Yes, it was my point. You misinterpreted my words.

ps45
Jul 28, 2013, 09:37 AM
Yes, it was my point. You misinterpreted my words.

OK, I don't wish to get bogged down in this, but your point has sublimated from 'most homes own an iPad' (stated twice) to 'most households in large cities have access to a computer of some sort'. Not a subtle difference, and entirely sidesteps the issue that the iPad is being used for specific education purposes that a home desktop PC shared with the rest of the family cannot meet.

Anyway moving on... meanwhile, in the UK:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2013/jul/28/ipad-tablet-computer-school-parents

blitzer09x87
Jul 28, 2013, 04:18 PM
it's time to move to LA.:rolleyes:

egoistaxx9
Jul 28, 2013, 07:03 PM
i wish they were offering the note tablets, they are much more useful in taking notes.

myrtlebee
Jul 29, 2013, 09:39 PM
OK, I don't wish to get bogged down in this, but your point has sublimated from 'most homes own an iPad' (stated twice) to 'most households in large cities have access to a computer of some sort'. Not a subtle difference, and entirely sidesteps the issue that the iPad is being used for specific education purposes that a home desktop PC shared with the rest of the family cannot meet.

Anyway moving on... meanwhile, in the UK:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2013/jul/28/ipad-tablet-computer-school-parents

Not sure what you're getting at as I stand by both of my statements. I do believe that most homes (as in over 50%) have at least one iPad or tablet computer, especially in large, high-cost-of-living cities like LA and that, certainly almost ALL households in those places (probably in the 85-90%) range have some sort of computer. With this in mind, my point is that GIVING an iPad to students to keep - who likely already have an iPad or at least a computer - makes no sense, as they will be playing on the thing more than reading on it. I guess you don't remember what it's like being a kid with shiny new a toy in front of you -- not to mention a very expensive tax-payer funded toy. Now, purchasing iPads for technology courses that stay in the classroom and are used for specific assignments under the supervision of a teacher, for more than one year and thereby allowing an individual unit to be cycled through at least two students, is a different story, and a pretty good investment.

Davejprince
Aug 10, 2013, 01:48 PM
Haha, that's what happened when my old primary school got MacBooks :D

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Why? Most other industries are being computerised... Why not education?

Because starting at a display all day isn't something people can do.