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MacRumors
Jul 30, 2013, 11:54 PM
http://images.macrumors.com/im/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2013/07/31/isis-to-roll-out-national-nfc-payment-service-this-year-with-iphone-support/)


Isis (https://www.paywithisis.com/), the mobile wallet venture that has been backed by AT&T, T-Mobile, and Verizon Wireless, has announced that it will initiate a national rollout of service this year and will include support for Apple's iPhone, as reported (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-07-31/isis-says-national-payment-rollout-in-2013-will-include-iphones.html) by Bloomberg.

http://images.macrumors.com/article-new/2013/07/isis_payments-800x362.jpg
"What you'll see coming from us is a vastly improved product, a variety of new places to use it, a vastly improved user experience," Ryan Hughes, chief marketing officer at New York-based Isis, said in an interview. Prior to this announcement, Isis had begun testing its services at 4,000 locations in Austin, Texas and Salt Lake City, Utah. Isis CEO Ryan Hughes revealed that in these tests, Isis users made payments with the phone more than ten times a month on average, and claimed that two-thirds of users in the test program opted to receive advertisements and offers from their favorite brands. This form of advertising would be something that carriers would use to capture new forms of revenue as the number of new smartphone customers grow.

Transactions using near-field communication (NFC) technology are expected to hit $110 billion (http://www.juniperresearch.com/viewpressrelease.php?pr=353) by 2017, and has been included with many phones that run Google's Android platform like the Samsung Galaxy S4, and phones that run Microsoft's Windows Phone platform, such as the Nokia Lumia 925. Apple's iPhone does not currently have NFC capabilities, but the company has been rumored to integrate (http://www.macrumors.com/2013/03/11/iphone-5s-to-include-both-fingerprint-sensor-and-nfc/) the technology with the potential launch of the iPhone 5S in the Fall.

Article Link: Isis to Roll Out National NFC Payment Service This Year With iPhone Support (http://www.macrumors.com/2013/07/31/isis-to-roll-out-national-nfc-payment-service-this-year-with-iphone-support/)



Danyboy
Jul 31, 2013, 12:13 AM
Does this mean that iPhone 5S has NFC for sure?

PollyK
Jul 31, 2013, 12:20 AM
Wow, so sad to see Apple in this position where they're always playing catch up.

mattlister
Jul 31, 2013, 12:25 AM
The company I work for Gemalto, was selected in 2011 to provide technology behind this project http://www.gemalto.com/telecom/linqus/mfs/mobile_nfc/isis.html

Great to see that the project is rolling out nationally in the USA, and that NFC is moving.

mathcolo
Jul 31, 2013, 01:15 AM
It's unfortunate that Isis will be supporting the iPhone before Google Wallet... the latter is so much better in terms of merchant support (Google Wallet is a bridge over to MasterCard PayPass) and app usability.

Oh well :(

macs4nw
Jul 31, 2013, 01:55 AM
Wow, so sad to see Apple in this position where they're always playing catch up.

The chips have been available for quite some time. My guess is APPLE has deliberately held off on this technology, waiting for wider adoption. Timing is everything, and until there is the underlying infrastructure, necessary to make payment via NFC an option that has been adopted by a reasonably large percentage of the industry in general, and retailers in particular, introduction of this tech by APPLE in their hardware, would have been a disappointing experience for those of us sporting iOS devices with such technology.

keysofanxiety
Jul 31, 2013, 02:02 AM
Wow, so sad to see Apple in this position where they're always playing catch up.

Rubbish. Apple don't just chuck in new technologies for the sake of it. As other people said, they wait for it to be widely adopted, or perfect the technology before putting it into their products.

IMHO, it's sad to see other manufacturers in a position where they don't take any pride in their product, and have a mentality of chucking stuff on a wall to see what sticks.

Technarchy
Jul 31, 2013, 02:14 AM
I guess that explains the fingerprint sensor.

Oletros
Jul 31, 2013, 02:23 AM
The chips have been available for quite some time. My guess is APPLE has deliberately held off on this technology, waiting for wider adoption. Timing is everything, and until there is the underlying infrastructure, necessary to make payment via NFC an option that has been adopted by a reasonably large percentage of the industry in general, and retailers in particular, introduction of this tech by APPLE in their hardware, would have been a disappointing experience for those of us sporting iOS devices with such technology.

Rubbish. Apple don't just chuck in new technologies for the sake of it. As other people said, they wait for it to be widely adopted, or perfect the technology before putting it into their products.

So, if every company does what you're saying Apple is doing, no technology would be developed.

IMHO, it's sad to see other manufacturers in a position where they don't take any pride in their product, and have a mentality of chucking stuff on a wall to see what sticks.

Let me understand the reasoning. You bash other companies for developing new technologies and praise Apple for waiting until the technology is well developed and released?

How do you think it would be ready for Apple is others doesn't implement it before?

Do you people read your arguments before writing them?

Asriel
Jul 31, 2013, 03:48 AM
Apple's success has often been based on taking technologies that have been around for a while and making them more accessible to the less tech savvy (which actually includes most of the population).

I would say rather than waiting for a technology to take off, it's hard for them to take off WITHOUT Apple being involved, and NFC is a perfect example of this. I have no doubt that if it is implemented in the next iPhone, then it will finally get the boost it needs to become widespread.

(Then Apple can claim to have "invented" it like they did with "multitouch" and "smartphones" ;-) )

a0me
Jul 31, 2013, 03:49 AM
Does this mean that iPhone 5S has NFC for sure?
Those of us living in countries where NFC is widely adopted can only hope.

keysofanxiety
Jul 31, 2013, 04:08 AM
Let me understand the reasoning. You bash other companies for developing new technologies and praise Apple for waiting until the technology is well developed and released?

How do you think it would be ready for Apple is others doesn't implement it before?

Do you people read your arguments before writing them?

Yes, I do praise Apple for waiting until a third-party technology is well developed and released, because they want to make the best products possible. There are plenty of examples where they haven't done that. Multi-touch, although previously developed, wasn't commonplace in phones or technology in general; they spent a good few years perfecting it with the UI for the iPhone and then releasing that.

Not to mention when they did things such as standardise USB in the first iMac -- heck, I'm still seeing modern computers come with PS2 ports for mouse & keyboard.

It's not a case of Apple piggy-backing on other people's innovations, not at all. But if there's a new technology just released, what's the point in putting it into their products if it won't be useful in commonplace scenarios? As SJ once said, the hardest part is to decide what not to put in your product, otherwise you'll end up with a product that does everything but excels in nothing.

Please let me know if you want me to clarify any points.

Asriel
Jul 31, 2013, 04:22 AM
But if there's a new technology just released, what's the point in putting it into their products if it won't be useful in commonplace scenarios? As SJ once said, the hardest part is to decide what not to put in your product, otherwise you'll end up with a product that does everything but excels in nothing.

But Apple is in a very different position now to when iPhones were first released.

iPhone has such a big share of the market that any smartphone technology not included on it is missing from half the people who might otherwise use it. Unless it is so successful and obvious that Apple has no choice but to include it (say 3G or GPS missing from first iPhone), to some extent Apple gets to DECIDE whether it takes of or not by whether they play along.

PBUser167
Jul 31, 2013, 04:25 AM
Does this mean that iPhone 5S has NFC for sure?

Go read the source article...

"By working on the iPhone, Isis is indicating that itís expanding beyond a technology called near-field communication (NFC), which hasnít taken off as expected."

Of course with the fingerprint scanner driver found in iOS7, it is certainly possible. They are probably doing something else to enable the mass of iPhones in use without NFC though. They could use the LCD screens on the NFC payment gear to show QRCodes for transaction IDs or similar. It would allow any phone with an app/camera/IP connection to do a fairly simple transaction without NFC hardware.

Oletros
Jul 31, 2013, 04:46 AM
Yes, I do praise Apple for waiting until a third-party technology is well developed and released, because they want to make the best products possible

Please let me know if you want me to clarify any points.

This point, for example.

What happens when all the companies do that?

iglobe
Jul 31, 2013, 04:50 AM
Go read the source article...

"By working on the iPhone, Isis is indicating that it°Įs expanding beyond a technology called near-field communication (NFC), which hasn°Įt taken off as expected."

Of course with the fingerprint scanner driver found in iOS7, it is certainly possible. They are probably doing something else to enable the mass of iPhones in use without NFC though. They could use the LCD screens on the NFC payment gear to show QRCodes for transaction IDs or similar. It would allow any phone with an app/camera/IP connection to do a fairly simple transaction without NFC hardware.
NFC Booster : INSIDE Booster is a patented,standards-compliant NFC technology that is deployed in a SIM card, which plugs into ordinary mobile phones to turn them into fully functional NFC-enabled handsets.

*.Virtual Wallet : Virtual Wallet is an architecture and a contactless interface with high-speed communication capabilities that access a secure element stored in the cloud to securely interact with a contactless POS. To learn more about this, click here.

*.NFC 2.0 : Near Field Communication (NFC) technology is evolving rapidly. NFC 2.0 provides a superior user experience, connection to the real world, and optimized integration. NFC 2.0 bridges the virtual world with the real world, opening opportunities to create significant new revenue streams.
Apple had already cross licensed this tech by selling their Embedded Security Solutions division to Inside Secure for $48 million.
I think apple service provider will issue nfc 2.0 nano sim to customers.
NO NEED BUY A NEW PHONE,NOW IT JUST REQUIRES A PIECE OF SOFTWARE TO RUN.

Menel
Jul 31, 2013, 05:02 AM
NFC Booster : INSIDE Booster is a patented,standards-compliant NFC technology that is deployed in a SIM card, which plugs into ordinary mobile phones to turn them into fully functional NFC-enabled handsets.

*.Virtual Wallet : Virtual Wallet is an architecture and a contactless interface with high-speed communication capabilities that access a secure element stored in the cloud to securely interact with a contactless POS. To learn more about this, click here.

*.NFC 2.0 : Near Field Communication (NFC) technology is evolving rapidly. NFC 2.0 provides a superior user experience, connection to the real world, and optimized integration. NFC 2.0 bridges the virtual world with the real world, opening opportunities to create significant new revenue streams.
Apple had already cross licensed this tech by selling their Embedded Security Solutions division to Inside Secure for $48 million.
I think apple service provider will issue nfc 2.0 nano sim to customers.
NO NEED BUY A NEW PHONE,NOW IT JUST REQUIRES A PIECE OF SOFTWARE TO RUN.
Good luck with that if the iPhone's metal sim tray turns out to be a half decent faraday cage.

Maybe in the plastic budget phones this would work better.

Does Apple even allow iOS app API to access SIM card?

keysofanxiety
Jul 31, 2013, 05:08 AM
This point, for example.

What happens when all the companies do that?

Well, Apple have developed many technologies that other companies have piggy-backed on. Apple put in their cash and efforts into the MacBook Air, iPhone, and a load of other products, despite a lot of controversy. This isn't some exclusive thing; it's how technology works.

With certain parts of technology, everybody chips in. But just go back to see the whole DVD vs HD-DVD vs BlueRay and you'll see it's simply ridiculous to immediately invest R&D into a new technology, just because it's new. And if your format loses, you lose.

I'm not sure how else to simplify this, your argument is mind-boggling. No point in Apple investing in NFC because it's not standard. There's no point. It would be stupid for them to have put NFC in the 3GS, for instance. Nobody bloody uses NFC. If, gradually, more shops worldwide accepted the format, then Apple would.

What if something 10x better than NFC was introduced next week, and everybody suddenly used it? What then? Good technology has a habit of taking off really quickly.

I don't know how to reply or clarify this, it just seems obvious to me. As far as I'm concerned, NFC is a gimmick at this point, and you think Apple not implementing it until it's the right time is a bad thing?

Crazy.

bearda
Jul 31, 2013, 05:13 AM
NFC Booster : INSIDE Booster is a patented,standards-compliant NFC technology that is deployed in a SIM card, which plugs into ordinary mobile phones to turn them into fully functional NFC-enabled handsets.

*.Virtual Wallet : Virtual Wallet is an architecture and a contactless interface with high-speed communication capabilities that access a secure element stored in the cloud to securely interact with a contactless POS. To learn more about this, click here.

*.NFC 2.0 : Near Field Communication (NFC) technology is evolving rapidly. NFC 2.0 provides a superior user experience, connection to the real world, and optimized integration. NFC 2.0 bridges the virtual world with the real world, opening opportunities to create significant new revenue streams.
Apple had already cross licensed this tech by selling their Embedded Security Solutions division to Inside Secure for $48 million.
I think apple service provider will issue nfc 2.0 nano sim to customers.
NO NEED BUY A NEW PHONE,NOW IT JUST REQUIRES A PIECE OF SOFTWARE TO RUN.

Cool idea, but I can't see it working in practice. Who are seemingly the only guys more resistant to change in the telecom industry than Apple? The carriers. Who world need to start issuing the NFC SIM cards? The carriers. Next to no chance of any significant adoption.

Oletros
Jul 31, 2013, 05:13 AM
Well, Apple have developed many technologies that other companies have piggy-backed on. Apple put in their cash and efforts into the MacBook Air, iPhone, and a load of other products, despite a lot of controversy. This isn't some exclusive thing; it's how technology works.

With certain parts of technology, everybody chips in. But just go back to see the whole DVD vs HD-DVD vs BlueRay and you'll see it's simply ridiculous to immediately invest R&D into a new technology, just because it's new. And if your format loses, you lose.

I'm not sure how else to simplify this, your argument is mind-boggling. No point in Apple investing in NFC because it's not standard. There's no point. It would be stupid for them to have put NFC in the 3GS, for instance.

I don't know how to reply or clarify this, it just seems obvious to me.

I think that you're not understanding what I'm asking or I can't explain it.

bearda
Jul 31, 2013, 05:13 AM
Good luck with that if the iPhone's metal sim tray turns out to be a half decent faraday cage.

Maybe in the plastic budget phones this would work better.

Does Apple even allow iOS app API to access SIM card?

No, it doesn't.

KPOM
Jul 31, 2013, 05:27 AM
This point, for example.

What happens when all the companies do that?

It isn't an all-or-nothing proposition. Sometimes Apple is among the first to adopt a technology (eg capacitive touchscreen, multi-touch, high-resolution smartphone screens). Other times they wait for technology to mature (3G, LTE, NFC). It doesn't always make sense to be a first mover. Being successful in a fast-moving industry like technology requires striking a balance. Push something out too quickly and you risk a poor user experience, security issues, or added cost. Wait too long and you risk losing customers. Neither Apple nor Samsung (the only two companies making serious money in mobile devices right now) are consistently first movers or late movers. Samsung tends to adopt certain technologies more quickly (wireless standards, NFC) but isn't always first and tends to use more conservative designs (eg they use simpler case designs such as polycarbonate throughout their product line). Apple has been an early adopter of mobile graphics technologies, has been more aggressive in customizing ARM chips, and pushes engineering and manufacturing design processes to their limits. On the other hand, they tend to wait for baseband, wireless protocol, and more ancillary technologies to mature.

Oletros
Jul 31, 2013, 05:37 AM
It isn't an all-or-nothing proposition. Sometimes Apple is among the first to adopt a technology (eg capacitive touchscreen, multi-touch, high-resolution smartphone screens). Other times they wait for technology to mature (3G, LTE, NFC). It doesn't always make sense to be a first mover. Being successful in a fast-moving industry like technology requires striking a balance. Push something out too quickly and you risk a poor user experience, security issues, or added cost. Wait too long and you risk losing customers. Neither Apple nor Samsung (the only two companies making serious money in mobile devices right now) are consistently first movers or late movers. Samsung tends to adopt certain technologies more quickly (wireless standards, NFC) but isn't always first and tends to use more conservative designs (eg they use simpler case designs such as polycarbonate throughout their product line). Apple has been an early adopter of mobile graphics technologies, has been more aggressive in customizing ARM chips, and pushes engineering and manufacturing design processes to their limits. On the other hand, they tend to wait for baseband, wireless protocol, and more ancillary technologies to mature.


Thanks for the answer.

Here lies one of the problems, I think people here tend to see that as Apple versus and I was not talking about Apple, Microsoft, Samsung or any company in particular, I was just talking about the concept.

I agree that there has to be a balance between being first and waiting to release so my astonishment when people bash companies for releasing a technology (the "chucking stuff on a wall to see what sticks." comment) and praising other for waiting.

JasonKnight
Jul 31, 2013, 06:13 AM
Does this mean that iPhone 5S has NFC for sure?

There is not going to be any NFC Chip in the iPhone for now. The reason is lack of space for it, and the fact that Apple don't believe in NFC. Apple is betting on Bluetooth 4.0, also called Bluetooth Low Energy or Bluetooth Smart.

Bluetooth 4.0 can be used in the same way as NFC, but also in a lot of ways that NFC can not. Apple will therefore hold off on trying to incorporate a NFC chip in the iPhone.

scapegoat81
Jul 31, 2013, 06:42 AM
A very interesting article that I found a few years ago on Bluetooth 4.0. I would love to see how Apple finally implements this new system.....

http://m.fastcompany.com/1785593/bluetooth-40-innovations-take-tech-far-beyond-hands-free-douchery

Menel
Jul 31, 2013, 06:54 AM
There's a chance all the new iPhone's have NFC, for this purpose. The Plastic and the Metal models.

However; considering Apple's previous stance, and this statement from the article suggests otherwise By working on the iPhone, Isis is indicating that it’s expanding beyond a technology called near-field communication (NFC), which hasn’t taken off as expected.

Isis is going to support Passbook.

josh995
Jul 31, 2013, 07:38 AM
Wow, so sad to see Apple in this position where they're always playing catch up.

Catch up? Adding NFC to the iPhone will be what makes NFC go mainstream at retail locations.

Look at all the Android phones that have NFC and how few locations are equipped to take advantage of NFC. My HTC One has NFC and I can't even use it because Google Wallet is blocked or doesn't work or whatever!

I bet as soon as NFC is added to iPhone, companies will be lining up to add NFC capabilities to their cash registers.

Pilgrim1099
Jul 31, 2013, 07:46 AM
No point in Apple investing in NFC because it's not standard. There's no point. It would be stupid for them to have put NFC in the 3GS, for instance. Nobody bloody uses NFC. If, gradually, more shops worldwide accepted the format, then Apple would.


The reality is that some parts of Europe and the Asian markets have perfected the NFC technology and are way ahead of the American market. In fact, it's our country that needs to catch up to those guys and this explains why NFC has been trickling in the western hemisphere recently.

Otherwise, NFC has already been perfected, so you should ask yourself why Apple was waiting so long to do it. Why wait when a certain tech has been perfected?

It's NOT that they're waiting for it to be perfected, they're angling to PROFIT off it. They're waiting to EXPLOIT NFC for their benefit. Behind closed doors, they're going " Hmm...how do we make money off this? Look at all the gas stations, cafes, and store fronts! Look at how Japan's got NFC down to a T! How do we get a LEAD on this one? ".

Problem: They can't. It's too late because, it seems to me, NFC is standardized by a consortium of companies.

NFC is already here, believe it or not. But it seems ironic that Apple is afraid of going the NFC route due to some security issues and yet you have the CIA/NSA/PRISM situation that happened.

Here's a little NFC history for you and APPLE is not in it going all the way back to 1983:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near_field_communication

Explicitic
Jul 31, 2013, 08:05 AM
Nobody bloody uses NFC. If, gradually, more shops worldwide accepted the format, then Apple would.




Obviously you've never been to countries like South Korea or Japan. It's extremely useful there.

Sincci
Jul 31, 2013, 08:09 AM
No point in Apple investing in NFC because it's not standard. There's no point. It would be stupid for them to have put NFC in the 3GS, for instance. Nobody bloody uses NFC. If, gradually, more shops worldwide accepted the format, then Apple would.

I think a lot of people are actually not aware that they are currently using NFC in some form if they are using rechargeable smart cards with public transport systems. The majority of those systems are using either NFC or they are at least NFC-compatible. Also, in europe it's quite common to see NFC compatible pay terminals in stores and quite recently both Visa and Mastercard have been adding NFC chips to their new credit/debit cards, so it's quite wrong to say that "Nobody uses NFC".

keysofanxiety
Jul 31, 2013, 08:11 AM
Here's a little NFC history for you and APPLE is not in it going all the way back to 1983:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near_field_communication

Point taken. But again, why is it so important for Apple to adopt NFC?

In all honesty I don't care if they decide to adopt until it's used everywhere. That's better for me as a consumer, because I'll have a new feature on my phone that is guaranteed to be useful rather than along with 'first movers'.

And if Apple do move first (MiniDisplay & Thunderbolt comes to mind), critics scoff that Apple didn't adopt a particularly widely used technology.

Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

Mad Mac Maniac
Jul 31, 2013, 08:14 AM
Rubbish. Apple don't just chuck in new technologies for the sake of it. As other people said, they wait for it to be widely adopted, or perfect the technology before putting it into their products.

IMHO, it's sad to see other manufacturers in a position where they don't take any pride in their product, and have a mentality of chucking stuff on a wall to see what sticks.

I agree with your first statement, and I mostly agree with your second statement.... However, that doesn't always apply. In this particular example of NFC, if NO ONE started using the technology it would never take off. Sometimes you have to chuck stuff at the wall just to get the ball rolling.

paradox22
Jul 31, 2013, 08:22 AM
Yes, I do praise Apple for waiting until a third-party technology is well developed and released, because they want to make the best products possible. There are plenty of examples where they haven't done that. Multi-touch, although previously developed, wasn't commonplace in phones or technology in general; they spent a good few years perfecting it with the UI for the iPhone and then releasing that.

Not to mention when they did things such as standardise USB in the first iMac -- heck, I'm still seeing modern computers come with PS2 ports for mouse & keyboard.

It's not a case of Apple piggy-backing on other people's innovations, not at all. But if there's a new technology just released, what's the point in putting it into their products if it won't be useful in commonplace scenarios? As SJ once said, the hardest part is to decide what not to put in your product, otherwise you'll end up with a product that does everything but excels in nothing.

Please let me know if you want me to clarify any points.

I don't know where you get the idea that Apple waits for the technology to develop or become more widely adopted. Take a look at thunderbolt. Apple was one of the first to use the technology and I don't see it really taking off because for one it's not really affordable to most people. Not very good timing if you ask me, but what do I care.

keysofanxiety
Jul 31, 2013, 08:25 AM
I don't know where you get the idea that Apple waits for the technology to develop or become more widely adopted. Take a look at thunderbolt. Apple was one of the first to use the technology and I don't see it really taking off because for one it's not really affordable to most people. Not very good timing if you ask me, but what do I care.

Yes but Thunderbolt has a professional connotation. IMHO, something that consumers will often use, such as NFC, requires further adoption before Apple are willing to put it into their device. iPhones are so widely used, after all.

Lord Hamsa
Jul 31, 2013, 08:30 AM
There is not going to be any NFC Chip in the iPhone for now. The reason is lack of space for it, and the fact that Apple don't believe in NFC. Apple is betting on Bluetooth 4.0, also called Bluetooth Low Energy or Bluetooth Smart.

Bluetooth 4.0 can be used in the same way as NFC, but also in a lot of ways that NFC can not. Apple will therefore hold off on trying to incorporate a NFC chip in the iPhone.

Case in point - look at the article from a day or two ago about using an iPhone or iPad to instantly set up a new AppleTV just by "touching" it with the device. This presumably uses low energy Bluetooth to essentially mimic NFC capability.

linuxcooldude
Jul 31, 2013, 10:42 AM
I don't know where you get the idea that Apple waits for the technology to develop or become more widely adopted. Take a look at thunderbolt. Apple was one of the first to use the technology and I don't see it really taking off because for one it's not really affordable to most people. Not very good timing if you ask me, but what do I care.

They don't always wait for a technology. In Thunderbolts case it could be used right away with their own products such as Cinema displays. It does take a while for third party products to support it but now it has over 50+ products and growing.

Adoption & Pricing of Thunderbolt has more to do around the professional & Semipro gear. Thunderbolt gear tends to be more expensive as most is geared toward the Pro realm rather than the average consumer who has USB 2.0/3.0.

NFC on the other hand is more dependant on adoption by retailers which is an added cost. Last time I checked world wide adoption was somewhere 8% but now could be somewhere more like 10%-12%

macs4nw
Jul 31, 2013, 03:16 PM
So, if every company does what you're saying Apple is doing, no technology would be developed.....

I hear what you're saying, but it is imho a calculated cost/benefit risk. By waiting for greater market maturity, a company can bring a more useful, better developed product to market. On the flipside, they risk missing a window of opportunity, to be first out of the gate, and possibly missing out on greater marketshare.

suprakc
Jul 31, 2013, 03:43 PM
Wow, so sad to see Apple in this position where they're always playing catch up.

Catching up? Apple wont release a product or service that sucks. Anyone else would. I think Apple will obliterate all competition with the 5s, which will be the only mobile platform (iOS 7) secure enough and with specific features designed for mobile wallet use (individual fingerprint recognition). If you don't agree, good for you. I don't want billions of critical people owning my dream phone anyway. :)

egoistaxx9
Jul 31, 2013, 06:33 PM
but the iphone doesn't even have an NFC chip, are the iphone 5s and 5c gonna offer the NFC chip?

Chatter
Jul 31, 2013, 06:54 PM
Wow, so sad to see Apple in this position where they're always playing catch up.

Polly, grab a cracker. Its more useful for you.

----------

I think that you're not understanding what I'm asking or I can't explain it.

Actually, you are the confused one. He gets it Ole.

JAT
Jul 31, 2013, 10:49 PM
Thanks for the answer.

Here lies one of the problems, I think people here tend to see that as Apple versus and I was not talking about Apple, Microsoft, Samsung or any company in particular, I was just talking about the concept.

I agree that there has to be a balance between being first and waiting to release so my astonishment when people bash companies for releasing a technology (the "chucking stuff on a wall to see what sticks." comment) and praising other for waiting.

LOL!! Seems as though these guys actually believe you mean that! Good job! Most skillful.

Glassed Silver
Aug 1, 2013, 11:41 AM
The chips have been available for quite some time. My guess is APPLE has deliberately held off on this technology, waiting for wider adoption. Timing is everything, and until there is the underlying infrastructure, necessary to make payment via NFC an option that has been adopted by a reasonably large percentage of the industry in general, and retailers in particular, introduction of this tech by APPLE in their hardware, would have been a disappointing experience for those of us sporting iOS devices with such technology.

My Thunderbolt equipped Mac without USB3 and I agree. :cool:

Glassed Silver:mac

tongxinshe
Aug 1, 2013, 06:27 PM
This point, for example.

What happens when all the companies do that?

You really don't understand the different roles being played by theoretical researchers, experimental labs, individual technology implementors and consumer product integrators, do you?!!

Apple, as a company at the end of that pipe, is holding no-one's back if it waits till the individual technology implementors are well prepared for prime time.

On the other hand, those consumer products companies pushing in raw or half-baked gradients and making big deal about those gradients are simply playing game with their customers.

----------

It isn't an all-or-nothing proposition. Sometimes Apple is among the first to adopt a technology (eg capacitive touchscreen, multi-touch, high-resolution smartphone screens). Other times they wait for technology to mature (3G, LTE, NFC). It doesn't always make sense to be a first mover. Being successful in a fast-moving industry like technology requires striking a balance. Push something out too quickly and you risk a poor user experience, security issues, or added cost. Wait too long and you risk losing customers. Neither Apple nor Samsung (the only two companies making serious money in mobile devices right now) are consistently first movers or late movers. Samsung tends to adopt certain technologies more quickly (wireless standards, NFC) but isn't always first and tends to use more conservative designs (eg they use simpler case designs such as polycarbonate throughout their product line). Apple has been an early adopter of mobile graphics technologies, has been more aggressive in customizing ARM chips, and pushes engineering and manufacturing design processes to their limits. On the other hand, they tend to wait for baseband, wireless protocol, and more ancillary technologies to mature.

Good explanation, except for the final summary. A clearer explanation is that Apple pioneers in areas that can survive / succeed without an industrial-wise standard, and wait for up-stream maturity on things only make sense when the whole industry supports it.

asthamapheo
Aug 1, 2013, 07:15 PM
finally, a way i'll be able to use the NFC technology!

audiresys
Aug 8, 2013, 02:28 AM
Apple pioneers in areas that can survive / succeed without an industrial-wise standard, and wait for up-stream maturity on things only make sense when the whole industry supports it.

Really? All those display connectors? FireWire (launched when there was almost no support)? Netbooting (who has ever used it)? Premature withdrawal of optical drives, and earlier of 3.5" floppy disk drives? The perverted form of OpenFirmware?

Was it really necessary to delay 4G until everyone else had it? Was there any doubt by 2011 that LTE would defeat HSPA/+?

Apple’s decisions can taint the entire iOS/iPhone ecosystem because it is the only maker of iOS devices. If the result is not as useful as what’s available on Android, one must either tolerate it or leave. I did the latter.

Specifically, regarding NFC, I see readers for it everywhere here in the Boston area, in supermarkets, gas stations and other stores. It is damn convenient whereas none of the competing technologies are (except Bluetooth 4, which is undeployed and therefore unknown). It just works, to borrow a phrase. As others have pointed out, in some large economies NFC has a much higher penetration. What constitutes an adequate level of acceptance at which Apple’s lack of support should be recognized as backwardness? 100% in the U.S., as happened with 4G?

Lemano
Aug 13, 2013, 04:38 AM
Bluetooth and NFC are not comparable in terms of use cases: Bluetooth has a transmission range of up to 50 metres, as NFC works within some cm!

Imagine several smartphone users around a cash desk. The only secure and simple way to get the right smartphone for the payment is by tapping it on a payment device. Theoretically, with bluetooth, all users could have access to the payment device at once (and with a fingeprint sensor combined to bluetooth, there is still an open question about which smartphone should be connected for payement).

Tapping (by using NFC) is so intuitive and simple, no need of PIN code for pairing the devices. NFC combined with fingerprint sensor would allow perfect and most simple way to do payments (NFC for transaction, fingerprint to be sure that the smartphone is used by it's legal owner), and all this without using any pincodes or other onscreen actions!

Therefore, I think it's just a matter of time when Apple will introduce this device, and personally I think it would make much sense to introduce it on the next Iphone Generation.

And I agree, Apple will not introduce NFC, if there is no business case behind, but several announcements in different countries about introduction of NFC payment systems could accelerate Apple's decision!