37 Year Old Woman Marries 15 Year Old Boy

[Mr. Anderson]

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/11/14/georgia.molest.case.ap/index.html

sick - and I was wondering how it would even be possible, but the last line there says it all...

"Georgia law provides an exemption to age requirements for marriage when the female applicant is pregnant."

I'm thinking it might be time to change the law....

D

[jsw]

Wow, great law. :rolleyes:

I can see now where pedophiles could simply get 12-year-old girls pregnant, then marry them. What she did was bad as well, of course. Hopefully, this will bring some attention to the law, but, then again, it's Georgia....

[Lord Blackadder]

Jeebus, this is awful. Such a cyical manipulation of the laws by this woman...I hope they bust her a** in court, but she may have found a legitimate lopphole.

[sushi]

I'm thinking it might be time to change the law...
No kidding!

Unbelievable.

Sushi

[xli_ne]

"This child's life is down the tubes," she said. "What's he going to do with a kid? He's not even old enough to buy groceries."

good positive thinking grandma

[dogsbody]

Hayles said her grandson during that stay received the letters from Clark, along with seductive photos of her posing on top of a mantle and in a bikini.

I found this sentence quite amusing - does that make me a bad person? :eek:

Oh, and how old do you have to be to buy groceries?

"This child's life is down the tubes," she said. "What's he going to do with a kid? He's not even old enough to buy groceries."

Or she meant psychologically he's incapable of planning for the future...it makes sense having read the article.

[Johnny Rico]

Funny stuff! Though it seems to me that the "its ok because she's pregnant" thing is bunk; Under Georgia law they can legally be married because she is pregnant, but it was still illegal for her to have had sex with him in the first place because "a person under 16 legally cannot consent to a sexual act". I wonder how, or if, this affects the marraige rule?

[dogsbody]

Funny stuff! Though it seems to me that the "its ok because she's pregnant" thing is bunk; Under Georgia law they can legally be married because she is pregnant, but it was still illegal for her to have had sex with him in the first place because "a person under 16 legally cannot consent to a sexual act". I wonder how, or if, this affects the marraige rule?

It's in the article:-

GAINESVILLE, Georgia (AP) -- A 37-year-old woman was charged with child molestation after being accused of having a sexual relationship with a 15-year-old boy whom she married last week.

[nbs2]

The law was written to conform with historical practice, and is itself historic. The idea was that if a girl of 16 or 17 was pregnant, but her parents didn't want her to marry the guy, she could still get married (or if she was 15 and pregnant, it wouldn't matter what her parents thought). It was generally an issue of the guy being 17 or 18. Not a 50 yo pedophile. The reasonable belief was that it is generally better for a child to be raised in a family with two parents than with a single parent.

[Deepdale]

I'm thinking it might be time to change the law....

Even when the powers-that-be change a law that screams out for a viable solution, it usually affects future offenders, not necessarily those who benefitted from a loophole at the time they caught the attention of authorities. It will be interesting to see how this one unfolds.

[iGary]

Remember, gays would destroy the institution of marriage as we know it. :rolleyes:

[MongoTheGeek]

Funny stuff! Though it seems to me that the "its ok because she's pregnant" thing is bunk; Under Georgia law they can legally be married because she is pregnant, but it was still illegal for her to have had sex with him in the first place because "a person under 16 legally cannot consent to a sexual act". I wonder how, or if, this affects the marraige rule?

Ah, but the law doesn't demand that the paternity of the child be determined. She could have gotten knocked up by someone else to marry the child.

Additionally most statutory rape laws have loopholes for spouses. Oddly enough gay marriage might have been an end run around sodomy laws (had they not be struck down)

As for the reasoning behind the pregnancy exemption in a lot of places sex=marriage. If the couple are married in the eyes of God and with proof, who is the state to argue.

She should probably go to jail for statutory rape since there is evidence of that. I guess they could give some bizarre turkey baster defense and claim that he wasn't even present (and didn't even know of) the conception. Imagine if there was no actual wrong doing in this beyond some self abuse and perhaps digging through the trash.

[Lord Blackadder]

I'm of the opinion that sexual abuse hasn't gotten more frequent, but today's society confronts itself more openly than in the past. 50 years ago this would have been hushed up by the boy's family in order to prevent a public scandal; the woman might be punished but only in a way that would avoid a public revelation of the act.

[MongoTheGeek]

I'm of the opinion that sexual abuse hasn't gotten more frequent, but today's society confronts itself more openly than in the past. 50 years ago this would have been hushed up by the boy's family in order to prevent a public scandal; the woman might be punished but only in a way that would avoid a public revelation of the act.

Or he would move onto her farm and work her land and they would have more kids, go to church together and while there might be some comments of cradle robbing it would all go away at the baptism of their next child...

[jdechko]

Also, in Georgia, cousin marriages are allowed. :eek: And what has been said is actually true. I found all of this out when I got married. Apparently, you dont have to do blood tests anymore either and the marriage license is valid the moment you receive it.

[funkychunkz]

Funny stuff! Though it seems to me that the "its ok because she's pregnant" thing is bunk; Under Georgia law they can legally be married because she is pregnant, but it was still illegal for her to have had sex with him in the first place because "a person under 16 legally cannot consent to a sexual act". I wonder how, or if, this affects the marraige rule?

It could be that they never did have sex, and she just happenned to be pregnant.

[2nyRiggz]

Also, in Georgia, cousin marriages are allowed.

Gross....who wants to marry their cousin...well i lived in GA so i can see this as being very true. makes me feel as if i was watching that movie Osama when the old bastard man married that young GIRL.....ewww


Bless

[MarkCollette]

Gross....who wants to marry their cousin...well i lived in GA so i can see this as being very true. makes me feel as if i was watching that movie Osama when the old bastard man married that young GIRL.....ewww


Bless

I'll marry your cousin. Oh wait, my cousin? I don't even know if I have one. Time to check the old family tree I guess :D

[dmw007]

Yikes, thats just slightly disturbing...

[Chip NoVaMac]

The reasonable belief was that it is generally better for a child to be raised in a family with two parents than with a single parent.

A very conservative notion. :D

[jefhatfield]

what i find funny is that in many a conservative religious area, sexual mores are very strict, unless it comes to marriage, then people go around pulling an elvis or jerry lee lewis and marrying very young spouses...strange times we are living in

[mymemory]

She is even old for me and I am 30.

[rdowns]

Remember, gays would destroy the institution of marriage as we know it. :rolleyes:

Beautiful!

[jadekitty24]

What is wrong with people today??? Call me old-fashioned, but an ADULT does not marry (or have SEX with) a CHILD. Anyone 18 & under in my opinion is a child. How many people here, at the age of 15 or 16, can honestly say that they had a clue about love or the responsibilties of marriage??? I know if I had made such ultimate decisions about such matters at that age, I would have screwed up big-time. This makes me so sad to see that adults can come up with any old excuse to let this behavior go on. I just don't know what to say...perhaps I'm rambling...

[Deepdale]

[QUOTE=jdechko]Also, in Georgia, cousin marriages are allowed.[QUOTE]

Puts the expression "kissing cousins" in a clearer light.

[MarkCollette]

What is wrong with people today??? Call me old-fashioned, but an ADULT does not marry (or have SEX with) a CHILD. Anyone 18 & under in my opinion is a child. How many people here, at the age of 15 or 16, can honestly say that they had a clue about love or the responsibilties of marriage??? I know if I had made such ultimate decisions about such matters at that age, I would have screwed up big-time. This makes me so sad to see that adults can come up with any old excuse to let this behavior go on. I just don't know what to say...perhaps I'm rambling...

I'm not going to defend people who have sex with minors, but I will refute your comment about 15 and 16 year olds not having a clue about marriage.

Maybe that holds true in the western world, for the past few decades or so, but in the rest of the world, where life is brutal and short, it would be unthinkable to wait past 16 to get married. Is many places the life expectancy is 30-50 years, and things are pretty simple: wake up, work in the fields, eat, take care of your family, sleep. There's no need to "find oneself" or to worry if that person is the one for you. It's simple, you need each other to survive, so you stand together, and make it work.

I remember when I was 15 and 16, thinking about my future career, the kind of woman I would want to marry. Sure, I've changed a lot since then, and learned a lot about people, and the world we live in, and come to understand myself in a new way. But the fundamentals of knowing to be loving, honourable, empathetic, strong, and having a sense of humour have all remained constant.

Just because you, and people you know, were immature then, has no bearing on others who may have been raised better.

[hal0n]

A very conservative notion. :D

yes, as is much of the reactionary commentary posted to this thread.

there are more close minded people on MR than i though. i bet most of you are happy that GW bush brought dignity back to the whitehouse.

The fact of the matter is this... sex is a natural act. there is nothing unnatural about someone post puberty engaging in it. prior to that point it is child molestation (barf). after that, regardless of the age difference, it is natural. when there is coersion or manipulation that's when things are not natural. and i don't see any evidence of that in the news report. was what she did a good idea? ... probably not, but she is now another victim of this countries conservative nature.

[jadekitty24]

I'm not going to defend people who have sex with minors, but I will refute your comment about 15 and 16 year olds not having a clue about marriage.

Maybe that holds true in the western world, for the past few decades or so, but in the rest of the world, where life is brutal and short, it would be unthinkable to wait past 16 to get married. Is many places the life expectancy is 30-50 years, and things are pretty simple: wake up, work in the fields, eat, take care of your family, sleep. There's no need to "find oneself" or to worry if that person is the one for you. It's simple, you need each other to survive, so you stand together, and make it work.

I remember when I was 15 and 16, thinking about my future career, the kind of woman I would want to marry. Sure, I've changed a lot since then, and learned a lot about people, and the world we live in, and come to understand myself in a new way. But the fundamentals of knowing to be loving, honourable, empathetic, strong, and having a sense of humour have all remained constant.

Just because you, and people you know, were immature then, has no bearing on others who may have been raised better.
I don't believe I deserve to be insulted for my opinion, but if it makes you feel better about yourself go right ahead.
This happened in AMERICA, not other parts of the world "where life is short". In AMERICA we have LAWS against having SEX with KIDS. Being 15, mentally as well as physically, you are still a child. In America we don't throw our children to the fields, nor do we commit them to a life of caretaking. I will not apologize for being born in America, and I will not be made to feel "immature" because at 15 I wasn't ready for marriage. By the way, I didn't say all 15 year olds have no clue about marriage, I asked who here at 15 could honestly say they were ready for it. Read the post.
"Just because you, and people you know, were immature then, has no bearing on others who may have been raised better." What kind of thing is that to say to someone you don't know? Are you saying I wasn't raised right because I wasn't ready for marriage at age 15? The only thing you know about me is that I wasn't ready for marriage at 15. In your eyes that makes me immature and improperly raised. In my eyes you are someone just looking for someone to lash out at, and for that I'm wondering how well-raised you were.
In the future please dispute my OPINIONS (after all, that's all my post was, an OPINION) and do not insult me. I welcome a difference of opinion, not unprovoked negativity.

[william sire]

This is our fault really. I am talking about average middle class general society people in America. We have become so open minded that we have lost our good judgement in the process.. I am old enough to have seen the social arguments of older men with younger women, as we had the revolution, for women to do the same, some 20 years ago. Of course women would retaliate and say that " if men can do it why can't women " ( Cher was a popular one with this ) . However with reasonable judgement a forty year old man with a twenty year old girl can have have a family, provided for them, send his children to college and be a good husband to his wife. However reverse that and what do you have ... practically. This was ignored in the evaluation and it became more important to be "tit for tat".

Not at all did that argument directly lead to this but rather what was the foundation of that argument that produces this as well as many other ills of society.

Abortion
The growing movement to amalgamate homosexuallity with our culture as the accepted norm
The celebration of single parenthood as a lifestyle choice
Supplying teens ( of this age ) with the tools and the encouragement to accommodate their own sexual desires
Our own adult irresponsible permiscuis behavior which is very obvious and also celebrated

Those, as well as the subject matter here, are just a few of the things that have arisen from the discarding of values, ignoring personal responsibility, and ( for some reason that as of yet I cannot ascertain ) the embracing of demoralizing behavior. Once we do this we cannot pic and choose what we will accept with the new idealistic views that we have chosen to root ourselves in. We might try, as many case's like this one are evidence of, but we will fail, and such cases are also evidence of that.

If you believe that men or women may be born attracted to the same sex when we have no physical attributes that would ever allow for such a attraction. What is to stop this woman from saying that she is born with a not common but normal attraction to young boys ? Or men who have sex with young girls the same, when they both do have physical attributes that would accommodate such an attraction ? I am not lost or ignorant to the apparent double standard. But double standard of not, is it true ?

I don't believe in statutory rape ! It is a law that should be abolished in every state. An age would have to be established where consensual sex could take place and the participants, by law, would be solely responsible for their own actions. SEX does not come in training, novice, intermediate, or beginner packages. It is pure folly to think that it is okay for a 15 year old to be having sex as long as it is with another 15 year old. But, if it is a forty year old that same child is a victim. You are recognizing that the 15 year old in question is not ready to engage in or make responsible decisions about sex regardless of the fact that they are wearing a condom. The charge should be rape. Nothing less, consent not being a factor. And if both participants are below the recognized age than the guardian(s) of both should be held accountable and prosecuted if reasonable according to the circumstances. ( I would not want to prosecute parents if the situation were beyond their control; secretly skipping school to be together or lying about where they are so they could rendezvous, etc)

I am aware of the level of responsibility it takes to accomplish this, but then we are adults. If we shirk that responsibility then we open the flood gates of opportunity, and they already open, for our charges ( children ) to be "victimized" by people like this woman and as well in some case's are responsible for creating these ( as they are called ) predators and monsters. Anyone can feel good to shout "Hang 'em high !" in the aftermath of this happening when it makes the news. But what about self evaluation when we make porn stars pop culture icons, or support a president when he engages in purely despicable behavior, and celebrate the sex with multiple partners at once, and it goes on and on. I am not saying don't do it. But rather some things don't belong self contained and clearly we are neither modifying our behavior to a rational standard or keeping it self contained.

Maybe this would have happened anyway. I think this woman is sick. But then what if it would not have. In this current age we have never even made the effort. In every forum I have read that discusses subjects like this the single element I have seen to be completely absent is the implication to control the one element we can and would have 100 % success with. Ourselves.

I am really under the impression that the general population is more afraid that this well become legal or acceptable and if we make a personal commitment not to we will miss out.

[MarkCollette]

I don't believe I deserve to be insulted for my opinion, but if it makes you feel better about yourself go right ahead.
This happened in AMERICA, not other parts of the world "where life is short". In AMERICA we have LAWS against having SEX with KIDS. Being 15, mentally as well as physically, you are still a child. In America we don't throw our children to the fields, nor do we commit them to a life of caretaking. I will not apologize for being born in America, and I will not be made to feel "immature" because at 15 I wasn't ready for marriage. By the way, I didn't say all 15 year olds have no clue about marriage, I asked who here at 15 could honestly say they were ready for it. Read the post.
"Just because you, and people you know, were immature then, has no bearing on others who may have been raised better." What kind of thing is that to say to someone you don't know? Are you saying I wasn't raised right because I wasn't ready for marriage at age 15? The only thing you know about me is that I wasn't ready for marriage at 15. In your eyes that makes me immature and improperly raised. In my eyes you are someone just looking for someone to lash out at, and for that I'm wondering how well-raised you were.
In the future please dispute my OPINIONS (after all, that's all my post was, an OPINION) and do not insult me. I welcome a difference of opinion, not unprovoked negativity.


I have no idea why you're being so defensive. I'm not calling you names. In your original post you said that:

I know if I had made such ultimate decisions about such matters at that age, I would have screwed up big-time.

Which was fine, that you admitted you couldn't handle those issues at that age. The point that I conflicted with was:

How many people here, at the age of 15 or 16, can honestly say that they had a clue about love or the responsibilties of marriage???

where you basically challenge anyone else's ability to have handled that situation at that age. It's one thing to recognise one's own limitations, but it's another to project them onto others.

And my point about the modern west versus other places and times is that sex and marriage at 15 is not against some natural order, or an affront to the human condition. We are only against it now because of the extraneous complications of life that we've piled on. That is to say, while I live in a western country and participate in these complexities, which make me want to hold off marriage and to be with an older more mature woman, I don't see it as abhorent or unnatural for others to make a different decision.

[MarkCollette]

This is our fault really. I am talking about average middle class general society people in America. We have become so open minded that we have lost our good judgement in the process..

I think there is room for both open mindedness and good judgement. Open mindedness requires the freedom to choose, which is accomplished by removing restrictive laws. Good judgement requires a proper instilling of critical thinking skills into each successive generation. And of course, each parent, having their own moral compass, should impress that upon their own children.

I am old enough to have seen the social arguments of older men with younger women, as we had the revolution, for women to do the same, some 20 years ago. Of course women would retaliate and say that " if men can do it why can't women " ( Cher was a popular one with this ) . However with reasonable judgement a forty year old man with a twenty year old girl can have have a family, provided for them, send his children to college and be a good husband to his wife. However reverse that and what do you have ... practically.

You created an example that specifically lines up with when women's reproductive capabilities fall off. How about saying a woman who is 30-35 and a man who is 25-30? There's more than just child-bearing age that comes into play. What about life expectancy? If you go to any old folks home you will see legions of women, all alone. That's because of women marrying older men, plus women have longer life expectancy. From that angle it would make sense for younger men to marry slightly older women.

Not at all did that argument directly lead to this but rather what was the foundation of that argument that produces this as well as many other ills of society.

Abortion
The growing movement to amalgamate homosexuallity with our culture as the accepted norm
The celebration of single parenthood as a lifestyle choice
Supplying teens ( of this age ) with the tools and the encouragement to accommodate their own sexual desires
Our own adult irresponsible permiscuis behavior which is very obvious and also celebrated



Abortion is the recognition that some people may judge for themselves their capacity to raise children. Personally, I don't like the idea of abortion. I would prefer that people would: 1) Be more selective whom they have sex with. 2) Use condoms and birth control pills 3) Use a morning after pill. And it sickens me that certain "moral" individuals attempt to thwart some of these steps, such as the Bush government cutting funding to third world countries who teach the use of condoms. But, if all else fails, I believe it is the responsible parties' choice, and not mine or the government's to make. That is why abortion must be legal.

Homosexuality has always existed. Whether you wish it to be accepted or to be persecuted, is your own opinion. Personally, since I prefer freedom and civility, I would like homosexuals to live without fear, just as I would like to live without fear. I think that they have something to add to our society. Even though sexual reproduction is important, I don't feel it's everyones duty to do so, for whatever reasons they may have.

Single parenthood is a tragic necessity. What child wouldn't want both a loving mother and a loving father. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a fool. But, not everyone has that choice, and I think we need to hold up those parents who have forgone convenience, and have made the sacrifice to soldier on alone for the sake of their children.

Teens have sex. It's happenned throughout all human history. Hopefully, parents can give their children the proper tools to guide those decisions, instead of ignorance and chance being their sole implements. These tools are: critical thinking, self respect, love, and contraceptives. I agree that skanky clothing for your 11 year old daughter is not the kind of tool that I would choose for my children.

Promiscuity gives certain advantages, otherwise people would not engage in it. A man who is seen with 3 different women will appear 3X more appealing to other women. That is one way that women attach value to a man, by how in demand he is. And women can use their skills of tantalising to make more money than a woman who works hard. A woman can make $500 a night stripping, where she is seen by many men, but is with none of them. She can then use that money to put herself through school and get better grades than the other woman who has to work every day. Of course there is a downside, such as reduced fidelity in marriage, or all of the emotional baggage that many single people carry. Some people are smart enough to use it to their advantage, and others only reap discord.

Those, as well as the subject matter here, are just a few of the things that have arisen from the discarding of values, ignoring personal responsibility, and ( for some reason that as of yet I cannot ascertain ) the embracing of demoralizing behavior. Once we do this we cannot pic and choose what we will accept with the new idealistic views that we have chosen to root ourselves in. We might try, as many case's like this one are evidence of, but we will fail, and such cases are also evidence of that.


Of course we can pick and choose values. Some values are more valuable than others. Take one you mentionned, for example: personal responsibility. With personal responsibility intact, one can then go to some party and do some weed, and it will be alright, because they'll still know to clean up and go to work on time come Monday morning. It's the individual without personal responsibility who might then go on and do crystal meth and come to work on Tuesday, to pick up their pink slip.

If you believe that men or women may be born attracted to the same sex when we have no physical attributes that would ever allow for such a attraction. What is to stop this woman from saying that she is born with a not common but normal attraction to young boys ? Or men who have sex with young girls the same, when they both do have physical attributes that would accommodate such an attraction ? I am not lost or ignorant to the apparent double standard. But double standard of not, is it true ?

Love goes well beyond having matching pairs of genitalia. I'm a man, and I have loved a woman who I will never have sex with (she's taken). It couldn't matter any less what genitalia she or I have, because I respect her spirit, her mind, and we have a friendship, and a bond. Love isn't just some thing to facilitate procreation. Why do you love your parents, siblings and children?

There is no slippery slope from homosexuality to pedophilism, because true justice balances rights and responsibilities of all parties. Minors are protected, whereas consenting adults need no protection.


I don't believe in statutory rape ! It is a law that should be abolished in every state. An age would have to be established where consensual sex could take place and the participants, by law, would be solely responsible for their own actions. SEX does not come in training, novice, intermediate, or beginner packages. It is pure folly to think that it is okay for a 15 year old to be having sex as long as it is with another 15 year old. But, if it is a forty year old that same child is a victim. You are recognizing that the 15 year old in question is not ready to engage in or make responsible decisions about sex regardless of the fact that they are wearing a condom. The charge should be rape. Nothing less, consent not being a factor. And if both participants are below the recognized age than the guardian(s) of both should be held accountable and prosecuted if reasonable according to the circumstances. ( I would not want to prosecute parents if the situation were beyond their control; secretly skipping school to be together or lying about where they are so they could rendezvous, etc)

You do realise that the majority of girls in the USA have sex by 14-16? I'm not sure how imprisoning the majority of the population would be helping them. Plus, you've missed a crucial point in why statutory rape laws protect young couples, and only penalise older infringers. It's because, just as the girl has been seen to be too young to properly know to consent, the boy being the same age means he cannot properly know to consent. Thus, neither is a victimizer, and so none can be punished.

Plus, why would you says that sex does not come in training, novice etc packages? Clearly there is some skill in having sex, which involves learning. To say otherwise is foolish.

(snip)
Maybe this would have happened anyway. I think this woman is sick. But then what if it would not have. In this current age we have never even made the effort. In every forum I have read that discusses subjects like this the single element I have seen to be completely absent is the implication to control the one element we can and would have 100 % success with. Ourselves.

I am really under the impression that the general population is more afraid that this well become legal or acceptable and if we make a personal commitment not to we will miss out.

But what you're describing is not personal responsibility, it is legal requirement. Personal responsibility means: I choose. There are two parts there: I and choose. Your suggestions entail imposing onto others your "solutions", which is more a case of You don't choose.

[floyde]

I think we have a record for the "longest MacRumors post" on this thread. And the next 3 runner-ups are probably here also;) :rolleyes: :D

[jadekitty24]

I have no idea why you're being so defensive. I'm not calling you names. In your original post you said that:



Which was fine, that you admitted you couldn't handle those issues at that age. The point that I conflicted with was:



where you basically challenge anyone else's ability to have handled that situation at that age. It's one thing to recognise one's own limitations, but it's another to project them onto others.

And my point about the modern west versus other places and times is that sex and marriage at 15 is not against some natural order, or an affront to the human condition. We are only against it now because of the extraneous complications of life that we've piled on. That is to say, while I live in a western country and participate in these complexities, which make me want to hold off marriage and to be with an older more mature woman, I don't see it as abhorent or unnatural for others to make a different decision.
I didn't challenge anyone, I asked a simple question. Again, read the post. Oh, wait...maybe there's no room left after your's...

[MarkCollette]

I didn't challenge anyone, I asked a simpl question.

Then I am sorry for misinterpreting your posting. I have reread it twice now, and I remain in error.

[DrEasy]

The fact of the matter is this... sex is a natural act. there is nothing unnatural about someone post puberty engaging in it. prior to that point it is child molestation (barf). after that, regardless of the age difference, it is natural. when there is coersion or manipulation that's when things are not natural. and i don't see any evidence of that in the news report. was what she did a good idea? ... probably not, but she is now another victim of this countries conservative nature.

Thank you, I was seriously starting to wonder if I was alone thinking that. This story sounds mostly to me as a case of bad judgement (both the kid's and the woman's).

[william sire]

I think there is room for both open mindedness and good judgement. Open mindedness requires the freedom to choose, which is accomplished by removing restrictive laws. Good judgement requires a proper instilling of critical thinking skills into each successive generation. And of course, each parent, having their own moral compass, should impress that upon their own children.

Well put though I don't entirely agree with that but nonetheless in my observation that is not being done.

You created an example that specifically lines up with when women's reproductive capabilities fall off. How about saying a woman who is 30-35 and a man who is 25-30? There's more than just child-bearing age that comes into play. What about life expectancy? If you go to any old folks home you will see legions of women, all alone. That's because of women marrying older men, plus women have longer life expectancy. From that angle it would make sense for younger men to marry slightly older women.

Again excellent point but it is inconsistent with what is being done as a practice. Women for some odd reason that I am unable to fathom are choosing relationships that though they fun are impossible to be successful other than accomplishing sexual gratification. If this were thier gaol I would have nothing to say about it. But it is quite often expressed that what they want is a successful relationship. I am not misjudging this, that is what they are expressing. And if that is not what they want then they are in a personal internal conflict.



Abortion is the recognition that some people may judge for themselves their capacity to raise children. Personally, I don't like the idea of abortion. I would prefer that people would: 1) Be more selective whom they have sex with. 2) Use condoms and birth control pills 3) Use a morning after pill. And it sickens me that certain "moral" individuals attempt to thwart some of these steps, such as the Bush government cutting funding to third world countries who teach the use of condoms. But, if all else fails, I believe it is the responsible parties' choice, and not mine or the government's to make. That is why abortion must be legal.

Homosexuality has always existed. Whether you wish it to be accepted or to be persecuted, is your own opinion. Personally, since I prefer freedom and civility, I would like homosexuals to live without fear, just as I would like to live without fear. I think that they have something to add to our society. Even though sexual reproduction is important, I don't feel it's everyones duty to do so, for whatever reasons they may have.

Single parenthood is a tragic necessity. What child wouldn't want both a loving mother and a loving father. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a fool. But, not everyone has that choice, and I think we need to hold up those parents who have forgone convenience, and have made the sacrifice to soldier on alone for the sake of their children.

Teens have sex. It's happenned throughout all human history. Hopefully, parents can give their children the proper tools to guide those decisions, instead of ignorance and chance being their sole implements. These tools are: critical thinking, self respect, love, and contraceptives. I agree that skanky clothing for your 11 year old daughter is not the kind of tool that I would choose for my children.

Promiscuity gives certain advantages, otherwise people would not engage in it. A man who is seen with 3 different women will appear 3X more appealing to other women. That is one way that women attach value to a man, by how in demand he is. And women can use their skills of tantalising to make more money than a woman who works hard. A woman can make $500 a night stripping, where she is seen by many men, but is with none of them. She can then use that money to put herself through school and get better grades than the other woman who has to work every day. Of course there is a downside, such as reduced fidelity in marriage, or all of the emotional baggage that many single people carry. Some people are smart enough to use it to their advantage, and others only reap discord.

These comments you made are the very motivation for my long ( record breaking ) post. You trivialize these issues as though they have neither a corrupt foundation or a significant result. However in some aspect we deal with this on a daily basis. The tragedy of any one of these or all of these issues is that they are not being managed properly on an individual basis. In this specific discussion I don't have the information to connect the dots. However my life experience tells me that some how this failure found it's way into this woman's life damaging her and later damaging this 15 year old boy. At what point do we close that broad interpretation and say: " Do what you want, think what you want, but as a society we will tolerate so much because what you are doing affects more than you ?



Of course we can pick and choose values. Some values are more valuable than others. Take one you mentionned, for example: personal responsibility. With personal responsibility intact, one can then go to some party and do some weed, and it will be alright, because they'll still know to clean up and go to work on time come Monday morning. It's the individual without personal responsibility who might then go on and do crystal meth and come to work on Tuesday, to pick up their pink slip.

I have a problem with this remark. It displays a personal responsibility after a fashion. But that is not personal responsibility. It is the absence of it. How ever it does seem to be consistent with what I believe allowed for this relationship with this 37 year old woman and a 15 year old boy.



Love goes well beyond having matching pairs of genitalia. I'm a man, and I have loved a woman who I will never have sex with (she's taken). It couldn't matter any less what genitalia she or I have, because I respect her spirit, her mind, and we have a friendship, and a bond. Love isn't just some thing to facilitate procreation. Why do you love your parents, siblings and children?

In my mind "love" is not the question. It is the rational to recognize that given the circumstances you can control and the ones that you can't, that an individual would be able to determine the correct path ( or action ).

There is no slippery slope from homosexuality to pedophilism, because true justice balances rights and responsibilities of all parties. Minors are protected, whereas consenting adults need no protection.

I totally disagree with this. It is like the movement against using cell phones while driving. People who do that will read maps without puling off the road, concentrate more on the changing the Radio station then where their vehicle is on the road, and other driving offense that are equally irresponsible or more so. Homosexuality and Pedophilia are rooted in the same misguided notions.



You do realise that the majority of girls in the USA have sex by 14-16? I'm not sure how imprisoning the majority of the population would be helping them. Plus, you've missed a crucial point in why statutory rape laws protect young couples, and only penalise older infringers. It's because, just as the girl has been seen to be too young to properly know to consent, the boy being the same age means he cannot properly know to consent. Thus, neither is a victimizer, and so none can be punished.

You missed my point ! If a 15 year old is a victim of " intelligent and willful " sex then that 15 year old is not capable of a mature responsible decision to have sex. As is the 15 year old has willfully engaged it the sex act. But if the two participants are both 15 then it is the Guardians of the people involved that should answer for it. However if you recognize that a 15 year old can make that decision then it should be irrelevant the age of their partner because sex has no stages to participate in that recognize your adolescence.

Plus, why would you says that sex does not come in training, novice etc packages? Clearly there is some skill in having sex, which involves learning. To say otherwise is foolish.

You are entirely incorrect. You may become better a your skill but that does not change the fact that you can still become pregnant the first or last time having sex. You cannot undo sex nor return to adolescence after you discover what it is all about. Though it appears to me that we will continuously try, as if to spite nay sayers like me.



But what you're describing is not personal responsibility, it is legal requirement. Personal responsibility means: I choose. There are two parts there: I and choose. Your suggestions entail imposing onto others your "solutions", which is more a case of You don't choose.

This is also an ill conceived assumption. Their is no legal requirement for personal responsibility. I knew what I was describing. We choose to accept personal responsibility or, even the failure to make that choice is choosing not to. The "solutions " I offer is a requirement to hold individuals accountable to their personal responsibilities whether they choose to or not.

[william sire]

Thank you, I was seriously starting to wonder if I was alone thinking that. This story sounds mostly to me as a case of bad judgement (both the kid's and the woman's).

I don't know who you were quoting but I agree with both of you. and I am still consistent with my post

[generik]

I think the law really needs to be revised to keep up with the times, if the genders of these 2 persons are reversed that paedophile would be doing time for this disgusting act right here right now.

Instead what have we got?

There is no way that boy could have legally consent to have sex with a 37 year old witch... Ewwww... it is not like he even knows what a sorry deal he is getting to start with! Jail her sorry ass for raping a child or something, perhaps even abort the baby.

This case makes me sick :mad:

[groovebuster]

Wow!

It's long ago that I read so much misinformed, ignorant and self-righthous stuff in one thread... :eek:

It would already help if you would start to use the word pedophilia in the right meaning:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophile

An adult having sex with a teenager is not a pedohile!

Thanks!

groovebuster

[william sire]

I don't think that " self-righteous" is a proper term. I acknowledge the obvious point of favor. I think that just happens serve mankind as meant by our divine creator. I hope I haven't misled anyone as to what I think defines a pedophile. I think this woman is sick and misguided but not a pedophile. Like wise when the sex of the two are reversed I hold the same opinion, as applicable. But the conventional wisdom of today seems to say that any relationship for which we don't approve of based on age is pedophilia. In my opinion it is the failure to be properly rooted in the correct moral and social foundation that allows this to happen to us.

I guess to some that would seem self-righteous. But if this woman twenty years ago had a healthy mind and pursued a productive relationship ( I know this is where I seem to be righteous ), would this boy be her victim now ?

It is impossible to answer with certainty. But it in not impossible to evaluate ourselves, as individuals, now and make the effort to prevent this from happening in the future.

[xyian]

Haven't you guys ever heard of the Mormon religion?:eek:

[Xeem]

You do realise that the majority of girls in the USA have sex by 14-16? I'm not sure how imprisoning the majority of the population would be helping them.


Not true. I have never read any study that places teenage sex rates that high. The first google result I got when searching for real numbers was this MSNBC article http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6839072, which states that 21% of teens ages 15-16 had ever had sex. Based on my experiences (I"m 21, not too old to remember teenage years) this seems about right, maybe low for 16-year-olds, but not for 15.

[MarkCollette]

Well put though I don't entirely agree with that but nonetheless in my observation that is not being done.

I agree it's not being done. My hypothesis is that the vast majority of our current societal ills are from parents not doing a good job of parenting. Some of that is out of their control, like the working poor who have to spend all their time away at work. Or the good parents whose kids spend all their time with their peers, who aren't raised right, etc.

Again excellent point but it is inconsistent with what is being done as a practice. Women for some odd reason that I am unable to fathom are choosing relationships that though they fun are impossible to be successful other than accomplishing sexual gratification. If this were thier gaol I would have nothing to say about it. But it is quite often expressed that what they want is a successful relationship. I am not misjudging this, that is what they are expressing. And if that is not what they want then they are in a personal internal conflict.

We choose what we do, to get what we want. We live in an information age where many conflicting ideals are presented to everyone on a daily basis. Then we must choose a single individual, in the hopes that they will fulfill some or all of these roles. In that situation, I can understand people choosing multiple short-term partners. Personally, I'm looking for a single multi-faceted individual, but I can understand others having different strategies. Plus, with our current education system, and pathetic culture, can one really expect to find that renaissance man, or cultured madonna-whore? Do they even exist? Is it not prudent, for most, to accept Mr/Ms Right-ish Now?


These comments you made are the very motivation for my long ( record breaking ) post. You trivialize these issues as though they have neither a corrupt foundation or a significant result. However in some aspect we deal with this on a daily basis. The tragedy of any one of these or all of these issues is that they are not being managed properly on an individual basis. In this specific discussion I don't have the information to connect the dots. However my life experience tells me that some how this failure found it's way into this woman's life damaging her and later damaging this 15 year old boy. At what point do we close that broad interpretation and say: " Do what you want, think what you want, but as a society we will tolerate so much because what you are doing affects more than you ?

I'm sorry, but it's not my intent to trivialise anything. I'm only trying to add a balancing counter-point. Maybe the world would be better without those issues, but they exist, and I think that we should see what root causes have created them. When we look at the conditions people live in, and examine the natural decisions they make, I think it becomes harder to merely condem. And some of these issues will never go away. I think it's best, to instead of fighting them, to provide positive alternatives. And for the things that are unalterable, like homosexuality, then I think it becomes a totally different issue, of acceptance. Any movement inspires waves of action, and counter-action, each having to grow larger to counter-act the other. With acceptance the waves wash away, and all that are left are people, living their lives.

I have a problem with this remark. It displays a personal responsibility after a fashion. But that is not personal responsibility. It is the absence of it. How ever it does seem to be consistent with what I believe allowed for this relationship with this 37 year old woman and a 15 year old boy.

You see an act of moderate participation as a lack of personal responsibility? I don't think that life is so simple that lightly partaking of an unharmful activity suddenly makes one cross a line into irresponsibility. Take alcohol for example. One can drink a certain amount and be measurable impaired, and thus act with little responsibility, or one can drink a certain amount less, and operate within acceptable parameters, and so be acting responsibly. One need not abstain completely to be responsible.

As for this woman, I am not defending her. I am merely trying to balance your other statements.

In my mind "love" is not the question. It is the rational to recognize that given the circumstances you can control and the ones that you can't, that an individual would be able to determine the correct path ( or action ).

Of course, but I think we're completely disagreeing on what this "correct path" is. And why did you bring up love and attraction then?

I totally disagree with this. It is like the movement against using cell phones while driving. People who do that will read maps without puling off the road, concentrate more on the changing the Radio station then where their vehicle is on the road, and other driving offense that are equally irresponsible or more so. Homosexuality and Pedophilia are rooted in the same misguided notions.

There are some people who don't pay attention while driving, as they engage in other activities. We already have a law in place for that, called driving with undue care and attention, which is sufficiently generic to handle all relevant cases, including the people who slop about as they talk on their phone. We should not have specific laws for using the radio, talking on phones, etc for two simple reasons:

1) Very specific laws are unnecessary and only complicate the legal system

2) Many many many people are fully capable of driving while doing all of those activities, and endangering no one. Penalising the competent, to protect the incompetent is something I'm stringly against.

But, I digress, being the rambling fool that I am. Back to your slippery slope theory. You claim that homosexuality and pedophilia are based in the same misguided notions. I'm not sure what this common notion is. One entails being attracted to another of the same sex, with no requirement that the other be a child. The other entails being attracted to a child, with no requirement of their sex. There is a word for this, which is orthogonal. There can be no slippery slope from one orthogonal point to another.

Ahh, but then you say, if we're now accepting of one "different" thing, then we will have to become accepting of all "different" things. No, that's just retarded. We're not asking for acceptance of "different" things, we're asking for acceptance of grown adults to determine their own lives.



Oh, and I was a couple thousand characters over, so I'm splitting this up.

[MarkCollette]

You missed my point ! If a 15 year old is a victim of " intelligent and willful " sex then that 15 year old is not capable of a mature responsible decision to have sex. As is the 15 year old has willfully engaged it the sex act. But if the two participants are both 15 then it is the Guardians of the people involved that should answer for it. However if you recognize that a 15 year old can make that decision then it should be irrelevant the age of their partner because sex has no stages to participate in that recognize your adolescence.

You are entirely incorrect. You may become better a your skill but that does not change the fact that you can still become pregnant the first or last time having sex. You cannot undo sex nor return to adolescence after you discover what it is all about. Though it appears to me that we will continuously try, as if to spite nay sayers like me.

No, I failed to clearly articulate how completely incorrect your point was. For this, I am sorry.

First off, I don't believe there is anything intrinsically wrong with a 15 year old engaging in a sexual act, given the proper precautions.

Secondly, even if I did or didn't like it, I don't believe in people being punished because of my tastes and preferences. In fact, I question anyone's right to impose punishments on others for decisions that have no affect on you. If the parents, of their own volition, decided to punish their minor child, then that is a completely separate issue.

Thirdly, if them having sex is so bad for them, then I believe those natural consequences are punishment enough, without requiring further punishment. Having a legal system punishing someone, in order to protect them, is completely nonsensical. That responsibility lies completely within a parent's domain.

Fourthly, there is a reason why the legal system differentiates between sex between minors and sex between a minor and an adult. That is because of power. It is assumed that peers will hold less coercive power over each other, and so the decision will be mutual, whereas when their is an age imbalance there can be a power imbalance, and so it is this context that the minor is seen to not be able to adequately make the decision for themselves.

Fifthly, sex does have stages. I'm surprised I have to spell this out: Younger people start with holding hands. Then they may progress to a kiss on the cheek, and then a kiss on the lips, and then french kissing, and then touching private parts over clothing (typically breasts and then vagina), then touching private parts under clothing, and then touching without clothing. The touching can stages can go on for months or years, and include oral sex, before the people progress to intercourse. When a person is older, these stages are usually compressed, lasting from hours to weeks, instead of months or years.

These delineations of sexual contact, and the durations they last as people get older, clearly indicate stages. Unless you think that sex only involves intercourse, in which case A) No one else on earth agrees with you, and B) Bill Clinton did nothing wrong (something you mentionned earlier in this thread). Also, the fact that younger people tend to stay in the bounds of the earlier stages, while older people tend to leap to the later stages, shows that indeed sex does have stages to participate in that recognize your adolescence.

As well, with each new partner, one begins anew. Although one's previous experiences and lessons remain intact, this journey of intimacy is different with each partner. So, there are several dimensions of stages that at play here.

This is also an ill conceived assumption. Their is no legal requirement for personal responsibility. I knew what I was describing. We choose to accept personal responsibility or, even the failure to make that choice is choosing not to. The "solutions " I offer is a requirement to hold individuals accountable to their personal responsibilities whether they choose to or not.

If a social worker comes to my home daily, and forces me to do my homework, and not go out to play, then that is not personal responsibility. If you impose laws on others, then the system will have to enforce those laws. It is the enforcement of those laws that remove an individual from being responsible for themselves, and places them in the care of the state.

The difference between making others do what you want, and people doing the right thing for themselves, is the application of force by a third party onto that individual.

A "requirement to hold individuals accountable to their personal responsibilities whether they choose to or not" is a very totalitarian concept. If you had said to hold them to their responsibilties, in some sort of generic sense, then we could break down the cases where those responsibilities are to other individuals, or perhaps to society. But no, you said "personal responsibilties", which means that you either typo'd, or you do not comprehend what "personal" means, or you presume that anyone has any rights in others personal lives, which would be a very very very bad thing.

[MarkCollette]

Not true. I have never read any study that places teenage sex rates that high. The first google result I got when searching for real numbers was this MSNBC article http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6839072, which states that 21% of teens ages 15-16 had ever had sex. Based on my experiences (I"m 21, not too old to remember teenage years) this seems about right, maybe low for 16-year-olds, but not for 15.

In that study, the 21% refers to sexual intercourse. The study then goes on to show percentages who have had oral sex, and what percentage consider that to be "sex".

[leekohler]

It is like the movement against using cell phones while driving. People who do that will read maps without puling off the road, concentrate more on the changing the Radio station then where their vehicle is on the road, and other driving offense that are equally irresponsible or more so. Homosexuality and Pedophilia are rooted in the same misguided notions.

Hey- now you have some explaining to do buddy. I want to you to explain to me exactly how I, as a gay man, am "misguided" as you say. Provide scientific links and proof please. Otherwise, shut your mouth. You don't know what you're talking about. And DO NOT EVER compare me and others like me to pedophiles. That's disgusting and I won't sit here and take crap like that from you or anyone else.

[Sayhey]

leekohler, I think he can't post in this thread anymore since it's been moved to the political section.

[leekohler]

leekohler, I think he can't post in this thread anymore since it's been moved to the political section.

Not to mean, but GOOD. He sent me a PM that was quite nasty BTW. And of course, his only "link" and "proof" was the Bible. So predictable.

[zimv20]

He sent me a PM that was quite nasty BTW.
wow. Klass with a capital 'k'.

[Kobushi]

What is wrong with people today??? Call me old-fashioned, but an ADULT does not marry (or have SEX with) a CHILD. Anyone 18 & under in my opinion is a child. How many people here, at the age of 15 or 16, can honestly say that they had a clue about love or the responsibilties of marriage??? ...

That's right! 15 and 16-years olds should just be having casual sex with their elders. None if this commitment stuff:rolleyes: :p

EDIT: apparently I chose to ignore your parenthetical note on the first read. Oh well. :)

[Sayhey]

Not to mean, but GOOD. He sent me a PM that was quite nasty BTW. And of course, his only "link" and "proof" was the Bible. So predictable.

Ahh ... he's one I won't miss! :rolleyes:

[leekohler]

wow. Klass with a capital 'k'.

Ha-ha! Yeah- He called me "distasteful". Whatever.
:rolleyes:

[eva01]

Not to mean, but GOOD. He sent me a PM that was quite nasty BTW. And of course, his only "link" and "proof" was the Bible. So predictable.

Because the bible is the end all, be all, of those that can't think for themselves.....

quite immature to do that thou

[Will Cheyney]

Haha! AWESOME

[Thanatoast]

Let's not celebrate William's dropping off so blatantly, please.

leekholer, I'm sorry he was a dick to you, but his public posts obviously had a lot of thought and feeling put into them, and that's what makes for good threads. If he had started being insulting within the thread, or even if you thought the PM should be reported as abuse to an admin, that's one thing and I wouldn't be sorry to see him banned.

But we here in the Political Forums can be a handfull to deal with sometimes. We've chased more than one conservative out of here, sometimes by completely destroying their reasoning, and sometimes just by being dicks ourselves.

Let's try to keep this forum a little more polite, in order to encourage the strong debate we all want.

[IJ Reilly]

I don't have the patience to read through this entire thread -- but has anyone thought to mention yet that marriage at the age of 15 or 16 was once very common? And not so long ago, either. But now it's a moral outrage, and a sure sign of the corruption of our society? Uh-huh. Right.

Obligatory....












:rolleyes:

[MarkCollette]

We've chased more than one conservative out of here, sometimes by completely destroying their reasoning, and sometimes just by being dicks ourselves.

Apologies for both my long-windedness, and my dickedness.

[aquajet]

Not to mean, but GOOD. He sent me a PM that was quite nasty BTW. And of course, his only "link" and "proof" was the Bible. So predictable.

leekohler, did the bad Reverend say anything more in his PM about this...

Homosexuality and Pedophilia are rooted in the same misguided notions.

I would have loved to hear him expatiate on that one.

[skunk]

I would have loved to hear him expatiate on that one.Expatiation is strictly verboten on these messageboards. Or should be.

[Thanatoast]

Apologies for both my long-windedness, and my dickedness.
I'm sorry, I wasn't accusing you of being a dick. Neither was I accusing William Sire - except in what he may or may not have said to leekholer. I was just expatiating upon the old "Kumbaya" line of thought.

[leekohler]

leekohler, did the bad Reverend say anything more in his PM about this...



I would have loved to hear him expatiate on that one.


You know what? The PM wasn't that bad. I just get a little defensive when people call me "distasteful" and a "societal ill". So maybe I overreacted a bit. Maybe I should just let you guys handle the conservatives from now on when it comes to this subject.

I mean, do you guys know how much we have to hear that garbage? It's almost daily it seems. Somebody always has some nasty opinion they feel the need to express with no basis in fact. So yeah, I do get a little tired of it. I apologize. I could have been a little nicer I suppose.

[zimv20]

I mean, do you guys know how much we have to hear that garbage? It's almost daily it seems. Somebody always has some nasty opinion they feel the need to express with no basis in fact.
allow me a small attempt at balance then: i admire anyone who chooses to be himself in the face of great opposition.

[leekohler]

allow me a small attempt at balance then: i admire anyone who chooses to be himself in the face of great opposition.

Ah- I take it you're referring to both myself and William Sire? ;)

[zimv20]

Ah- I take it you're referring to both myself and William Sire? ;)
ha!

nah, just you. wrt william, i think you know from the other thread that i wouldn't have minded scoring a 37 y.o. woman when i was in my teens.

hell, i wouldn't mind it today... :-)

[leekohler]

Let's not celebrate William's dropping off so blatantly, please.

leekholer, I'm sorry he was a dick to you, but his public posts obviously had a lot of thought and feeling put into them, and that's what makes for good threads. If he had started being insulting within the thread, or even if you thought the PM should be reported as abuse to an admin, that's one thing and I wouldn't be sorry to see him banned.

But we here in the Political Forums can be a handfull to deal with sometimes. We've chased more than one conservative out of here, sometimes by completely destroying their reasoning, and sometimes just by being dicks ourselves.

Let's try to keep this forum a little more polite, in order to encourage the strong debate we all want.

Well- I guess it got to me that he was making claims and not providing anything to back them up.

And again- sorry, I could have been more diplomatic when I called him on it.

[w_parietti22]

Thats just wrong.

[AP_piano295]

..milf?

[aquajet]

I mean, do you guys know how much we have to hear that garbage? It's almost daily it seems. Somebody always has some nasty opinion they feel the need to express with no basis in fact. So yeah, I do get a little tired of it. I apologize. I could have been a little nicer I suppose.

I sure do. I have to hear it from a few super-macho types in a college classroom (of all places) twice a week, mostly directed toward an obviously gay guy in my class. I, on the otherhand, am not so obvious.

I thought you were nice enough.

[AP_piano295]

I don't have the patience to read through this entire thread -- but has anyone thought to mention yet that marriage at the age of 15 or 16 was once very common? And not so long ago, either. But now it's a moral outrage, and a sure sign of the corruption of our society? Uh-huh. Right.

Obligatory....






not long ago you didnt expect to live past 35.
You needed to start producing babys before you kicked the bucket.








:rolleyes:

not long ago you didnt expect to live past 35.
You needed to start producing babys before you kicked the bucket.

:

[maya]

For some reason it seems the tables have turned.

This world has gone loopy. :eek:

[IJ Reilly]

not long ago you didnt expect to live past 35.
You needed to start producing babys before you kicked the bucket.

:

That, and it was just plain commonplace. My grandmother was married at age 16.

[MarkCollette]

I'm sorry, I wasn't accusing you of being a dick. Neither was I accusing William Sire - except in what he may or may not have said to leekholer. I was just expatiating upon the old "Kumbaya" line of thought.

No worries. I was making reference to some comments I made to jadekitty24.

[groovebuster]

not long ago you didnt expect to live past 35.
You needed to start producing babys before you kicked the bucket.

But does that influence the way teeangers are maturing? Why would the 16 y.o. teenagers 1000 years ago be any more ready to get married and to have a family, than today?

Does being and act mature fall from the trees the night somebody turns 18 y.o. and before he/she doesn't have a clue what life is about? I think it is way worse to disallow minors everything "just because". Everybody who doesn't know what I mean should find out about what the word adolesence means...

@leekohler:

I can imagine what you guys are going through. My wife was 15 when we met for the first time, I was 27. It was a big coincidence that we met. None of us was looking for a relationship with a big age difference. Fom the first moment we felt there was something special between us and over the weeks and months we really fell deeply in love.

The reactions of our environments (She was still living in Canada at this time) were really interesting, shocking but mainly annoying. Her family didn't have any problem with the situation at all, but other North Americans really did. We always got weird looks from many people when we were in public, they actually turned their heads when we passed. And I look younger than I actually am... people back than always estimated me early to mid-twenties. In more than one store they called her my daughter because they didn't know what to think about the age difference. Hello? I wonder how likely it is that a 12 y.o. boy became a father??? Calling her my daughhter was almost the biggest insult I can think off. Why referring to her as my daughter anyway?

But that was not all... Regularly I got insulted by other people as a pedophile, that I only looked after a young girl like this because I can't handle the women my age...

But if that would have been the case, why picking a girl from Canada, while I am sitting in Germany?

I found out that here in Germany most of the men who were insulting me as well were actually jealous that I had a young and good-looking girl-friend like this. Most of them had a hard time to admit it...

Nobody ever asked: Do you love each other?

It can't be what is not supposed to be...

I would not have gotten involved with just any teenager. As I said, it was just a coincidence. My wife was and still is special. And she was way more mature for her age than the average 15 y.o. girl. Love doesn't ask how old you are before it knocks on your door!

We are happily married since almost 5 years now and have two wonderful daughters. It is already hard enough these days to have a family. The harassment of the other people didn't help to make it easier...

But finally, since my wife doesn't look that young anymore, it became a little bit easier...

groovebuster

[leekohler]

But does that influence the way teeangers are maturing? Why would the 16 y.o. teenagers 1000 years ago be any more ready to get married and to have a family, than today?

Does being and act mature fall from the trees the night somebody turns 18 y.o. and before he/she doesn't have a clue what life is about? I think it is way worse to disallow minors everything "just because". Everybody who doesn't know what I mean should find out about what the word adolesence means...

@leekohler:

I can imagine what you guys are going through. My wife was 15 when we met for the first time, I was 27. It was a big coincidence that we met. None of us was looking for a relationship with a big age difference. Fom the first moment we felt there was something special between us and over the weeks and months we really fell deeply in love.

The reactions of our environments (She was still living in Canada at this time) were really interesting, shocking but mainly annoying. Her family didn't have any problem with the situation at all, but other North Americans really did. We always got weird looks from many people when we were in public, they actually turned their heads when we passed. And I look younger than I actually am... people back than always estimated me early to mid-twenties. In more than one store they called her my daughter because they didn't know what to think about the age difference. Hello? I wonder how likely it is that a 12 y.o. boy became a father??? Calling her my daughhter was almost the biggest insult I can think off. Why referring to her as my daughter anyway?

But that was not all... Regularly I got insulted by other people as a pedophile, that I only looked after a young girl like this because I can't handle the women my age...

But if that would have been the case, why picking a girl from Canada, while I am sitting in Germany?

I found out that here in Germany most of the men who were insulting me as well were actually jealous that I had a young and good-looking girl-friend like this. Most of them had a hard time to admit it...

Nobody ever asked: Do you love each other?

It can't be what is not supposed to be...

I would not have gotten involved with just any teenager. As I said, it was just a coincidence. My wife was and still is special. And she was way more mature for her age than the average 15 y.o. girl. Love doesn't ask how old you are before it knocks on your door!

We are happily married since almost 5 years now and have two wonderful daughters. It is already hard enough these days to have a family. The harassment of the other people didn't help to make it easier...

But finally, since my wife doesn't look that young anymore, it became a little bit easier...

groovebuster

Interesting. I don't even know what to say. It worked out for you guys I guess- so good for you.

[leekohler]

ha!

nah, just you. wrt william, i think you know from the other thread that i wouldn't have minded scoring a 37 y.o. woman when i was in my teens.

hell, i wouldn't mind it today... :-)

Well thanks, man. I appreciate that.

[jadekitty24]

But does that influence the way teeangers are maturing? Why would the 16 y.o. teenagers 1000 years ago be any more ready to get married and to have a family, than today?

Does being and act mature fall from the trees the night somebody turns 18 y.o. and before he/she doesn't have a clue what life is about? I think it is way worse to disallow minors everything "just because". Everybody who doesn't know what I mean should find out about what the word adolesence means...

@leekohler:

I can imagine what you guys are going through. My wife was 15 when we met for the first time, I was 27. It was a big coincidence that we met. None of us was looking for a relationship with a big age difference. Fom the first moment we felt there was something special between us and over the weeks and months we really fell deeply in love.

The reactions of our environments (She was still living in Canada at this time) were really interesting, shocking but mainly annoying. Her family didn't have any problem with the situation at all, but other North Americans really did. We always got weird looks from many people when we were in public, they actually turned their heads when we passed. And I look younger than I actually am... people back than always estimated me early to mid-twenties. In more than one store they called her my daughter because they didn't know what to think about the age difference. Hello? I wonder how likely it is that a 12 y.o. boy became a father??? Calling her my daughhter was almost the biggest insult I can think off. Why referring to her as my daughter anyway?

But that was not all... Regularly I got insulted by other people as a pedophile, that I only looked after a young girl like this because I can't handle the women my age...

But if that would have been the case, why picking a girl from Canada, while I am sitting in Germany?

I found out that here in Germany most of the men who were insulting me as well were actually jealous that I had a young and good-looking girl-friend like this. Most of them had a hard time to admit it...

Nobody ever asked: Do you love each other?

It can't be what is not supposed to be...

I would not have gotten involved with just any teenager. As I said, it was just a coincidence. My wife was and still is special. And she was way more mature for her age than the average 15 y.o. girl. Love doesn't ask how old you are before it knocks on your door!

We are happily married since almost 5 years now and have two wonderful daughters. It is already hard enough these days to have a family. The harassment of the other people didn't help to make it easier...

But finally, since my wife doesn't look that young anymore, it became a little bit easier...

groovebuster
Now there's something to think about...:)

[aquajet]

Now there's something to think about...:)

Indeed. Good for u'all.

The situation was similar with my brother and his wife. They met while she was still in high school (and in fact, we shared a few classes), and he was several years older. Fortunately for them, both families gave their blessings from the beginning, and they're happily married now with their first child.

[Sogo]

im sure the boy will be a great father....

[groovebuster]

Now there's something to think about...:)

Just FYI... I am almost 36 now...