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MacRumors
Aug 8, 2013, 01:24 PM
http://images.macrumors.com/im/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2013/08/08/1password-available-for-10-off-through-mid-august/)


http://images.macrumors.com/article-new/2013/05/1password.jpgAgileBits (https://agilebits.com) is currently offering a significant discount on the iOS version of its secure password management app 1Password in order to encourage (http://blog.agilebits.com/2013/08/08/1password-3-dropbox-sync-faq/) users who are still accessing the older version of the software to upgrade.

Because Dropbox is disabling support for an API that facilitates syncing in version 3 of 1Password, the Dropbox sync functionality of that app will cease to function as of September first. AgileBits discontinued its support for 1Password version 3 with the release (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/12/12/agilebits-releases-1password-version-4/) of the fourth version of the software last December and will not be updating the app.

Instead, the company is offering a $10 discount on the new software, making it available for users at $7.99, which is more than half off. The sale will last from today until Friday, August 16.

Though Dropbox syncing will no longer function, users who cannot upgrade to the newest version of 1Password (which requires iOS 6) will be able (http://blog.agilebits.com/2013/08/08/1password-3-dropbox-sync-faq/) to sync with computers on the same Wi-Fi network.

1Password (http://www.appshopper.com/productivity/1password-2) is a universal app that can be downloaded from the App Store for $7.99 for a limited time. [Direct Link (https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/1password-password-manager/id568903335?mt=8)]

Article Link: 1Password Available for $10 Off Through Mid-August (http://www.macrumors.com/2013/08/08/1password-available-for-10-off-through-mid-august/)



arkmannj
Aug 8, 2013, 01:28 PM
I am still using the older version due to them removing WiFi Sync in the latest version...

lilianeloirinha
Aug 8, 2013, 01:29 PM
This is so unfair! Shame on AgileBits. First off, I had to pay full price some time ago because of this issue. Suddenly they're offering a huge discount, I wonder why... OH THAT'S RIGHT! iOS 7 AND MAVERICKS ALREADY HAVE PASSWORD SYNCING!

To top it off, look at the pathetic Android version they have. Seriously, even if you don't care for Android, take a look at it on Google Play. Why? Because a company that puts out half-assed products on the market and applies discounts to some users but not others does not deserve attention.

AgileBits, get your act together, mmkay?


Image (http://www.macrumors.com/2013/08/08/1password-available-for-10-off-through-mid-august/)


Image (https://agilebits.com)AgileBits is currently offering a significant discount on the iOS version of its secure password management app 1Password in order to encourage (http://blog.agilebits.com/2013/08/08/1password-3-dropbox-sync-faq/) users who are still accessing the older version of the software to upgrade.

Because Dropbox is disabling support for an API that facilitates syncing in version 3 of 1Password, the Dropbox sync functionality of that app will cease to function as of September first. AgileBits discontinued its support for 1Password version 3 with the release (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/12/12/agilebits-releases-1password-version-4/) of the fourth version of the software last December and will not be updating the app.

Instead, the company is offering a $10 discount on the new software, making it available for users at $7.99, which is more than half off. The sale will last from today until Friday, August 16.

Though Dropbox syncing will no longer function, users who cannot upgrade to the newest version of 1Password (which requires iOS 6) will be able (http://blog.agilebits.com/2013/08/08/1password-3-dropbox-sync-faq/) to sync with computers on the same Wi-Fi network.

1Password (http://www.appshopper.com/productivity/1password-2) is a universal app that can be downloaded from the App Store for $7.99 for a limited time. [Direct Link (https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/1password-password-manager/id568903335?mt=8)]

Article Link: 1Password Available for $10 Off Through Mid-August (http://www.macrumors.com/2013/08/08/1password-available-for-10-off-through-mid-august/)

kirky29
Aug 8, 2013, 01:31 PM
Wait wait, so will my 1Password Dropbox syncing stop working on my Mac too?

dustinfarris
Aug 8, 2013, 01:33 PM
1Password is easily the app I value most.

joesegh
Aug 8, 2013, 01:34 PM
Cool. I snagged the iOS version of 1Password a while ago when it was on discount. Combined with the ability to use it across Mac OS and Windows with Dropbox syncing, it's easily my most valuable tool.

DavidLeblond
Aug 8, 2013, 01:38 PM
I really hope older versions of the software won't lose Dropbox Sync. I rely on it! I have a Mac, iPhone, iPad, and Windows PC that I keep synced this way.

EDIT: Nevermind, now I get it. This only effects iOS, so if I have to buy a new copy then at least I'll only have to buy it for one platform. Still, this stinks.

mlac007
Aug 8, 2013, 01:39 PM
Ok, so what about us iPad 1 users that can't upgrade to iOS 6 and are forced to stay with 1Passsword 3?...and are not ready to buy a new iPad yet....:(

poobear
Aug 8, 2013, 01:40 PM
This is so unfair! Shame on AgileBits. First off, I had to pay full price some time ago because of this issue. Suddenly they're offering a huge discount, I wonder why... OH THAT'S RIGHT! iOS 7 AND MAVERICKS ALREADY HAVE PASSWORD SYNCING!

To top it off, look at the pathetic Android version they have. Seriously, even if you don't care for Android, take a look at it on Google Play. Why? Because a company that puts out half-assed products on the market and applies discounts to some users but not others does not deserve attention.

AgileBits, get your act together, mmkay?
Chill ok?
Companies has to have discount 365 days a year to make you happy?

phrk
Aug 8, 2013, 01:44 PM
I think it's still overpriced. I use pwSafe for Mac and iOS with iCloud Sync. Don't see why I need to pay so much for a password app.

postman1
Aug 8, 2013, 01:44 PM
1Password was the most valuable app to me too. But since they removed WiFi Sync it is pretty much useless now.

They have some tight bond with DropBox and are pushing that solution hard. They told me they were removing WiFi syncing because it had serious issues, I questioned that with the following quote from their own material.

"Over the years, our team fell in love with the ease of Dropbox and stopped using Wi-Fi sync altogether. Since none of us used it, and in light of the feature’s problematic nature for many of our users, we decided not to include Wi-Fi syncing when we rewrote 1Password 4 from the ground up."

Their response to me was "Wi-Fi Syncing is gone, and not coming back for 1Password. I understand that is not the answer you want, but it is the answer.
"

Got that everybody?

I did notice some passing comment recently that since the NSA revelations, they are looking at ways to bring back local network sync. But their attitude has left a bitter taste. Yes. I did try their USB Sync app. No it is not the solution.

rocknblogger
Aug 8, 2013, 01:46 PM
Sorry all I'm a bit dense today. Is Dropbox sync being removed from all versions or just 1Password 3?

Also I've been using Dashlane and I think I'm starting to like it better.

Xe89
Aug 8, 2013, 01:58 PM
Wait wait, so will my 1Password Dropbox syncing stop working on my Mac too?
Did you even read the linked blog post from Agilebits?

Dropbox will continue to work on these platforms:

1Password 3 for Mac
1Password for Windows
1Password 4 for iOS
1Password for Android
1Password for Windows Phone

SirithX
Aug 8, 2013, 01:59 PM
When are they releasing 1Password 4 for the Mac? I'd like to have it on OS X too since I use it on my iPad and iPhone but I'm not going to pay for 3 when 4 is right around the corner, especially knowing that they do make you pay for new versions.

Bathplug
Aug 8, 2013, 01:59 PM
They didn't add wifi sync and backup in 1password 4 plus you can't copy a keychain folder to iTunes file sharing in windows. Not everybody wants to sync their passwords to the cloud (which is turned ON by default).

But if you use ifunbox you can export your 1password data for backup and import it to a new device or after a restore etc so no need for the cloud and it's a work around for the iTunes file sharing in windows which doesn't work and the none existent wifi backup feature.

JTP3XP
Aug 8, 2013, 01:59 PM
Is this not going to be useless once iCloud Keychain comes out in September?

JGRE
Aug 8, 2013, 02:00 PM
For 10 bugs, count me in.

opq
Aug 8, 2013, 02:00 PM
From their blog post, it only affects 1PassWord 3 for iOS. Dropbox in 1Password 4 for iOS will work fine.

It ceases to amaze me how pathetic the argument for Wi-Fi sync removal from the latest iOS client was. It was the best solution for me and the sole reason as to why I haven't bought and won't buy 1Password for iOS 4. Even with this ask for people to use the Wi-Fi feature they RIDICULED previously, who knows if they'll bring it back, or if I'll have to fork out another $17.99 for 1Password for iOS version 5 or whatever?

In the world of $0.99 and $1.99 Apps, asking $17.99 for the iOS app and $49.99 for the Mac app is already a lot. Not questioning the value, just questioning how people are still on board with the "shut up and take my money" attitude

phrk
Aug 8, 2013, 02:02 PM
When are they releasing 1Password 4 for the Mac? I'd like to have it on OS X too since I use it on my iPad and iPhone but I'm not going to pay for 3 when 4 is right around the corner, especially knowing that they do make you pay for new versions.

From the Agile Online Store:

Free Upgrade

Purchase 1Password for Mac or Windows today and receive a FREE upgrade to version 4 when it becomes available.

mlac007
Aug 8, 2013, 02:03 PM
When are they releasing 1Password 4 for the Mac? I'd like to have it on OS X too since I use it on my iPad and iPhone but I'm not going to pay for 3 when 4 is right around the corner, especially knowing that they do make you pay for new versions.

According to Agile Bits website (once you click on the buy now button):

"Free Upgrade
Purchase 1Password for Mac or Windows today and receive a FREE upgrade to version 4 when it becomes available."

Razeus
Aug 8, 2013, 02:04 PM
This was my main password app, then I went with an Android device and discovered they don't truly support Android (their Android app is NOTHING close to the iOS app) so I had to move to LastPass. Too bad they don't support an OS with such a huge market share.

DotCom2
Aug 8, 2013, 02:12 PM
I switched to DataVault some time ago and never looked back!
My most valued app. Syncs with everything and even my PC.

Stella
Aug 8, 2013, 02:12 PM
Is this not going to be useless once iCloud Keychain comes out in September?

Not useless. 1Password will work with more sites than Safari will in the next version. 1Password have had specific bug fixes to work with authentication forms, I expect Safari will require the same.

Additionally, 1Password is multi-browser / multi platform, but iCloud keychain user / passwords will be Safari only.

mw360
Aug 8, 2013, 02:12 PM
Ok, so what about us iPad 1 users that can't upgrade to iOS 6 and are forced to stay with 1Passsword 3?...and are not ready to buy a new iPad yet....:(

Yes, exactly this. I sill have an iPad 1 that works just fine. Suddenly an app I paid for is going to lose its key functionality? I don't see anything in 1pw 4 that demands whatever minor changes iOS6 brought (maps and passbook!)

Hitch08
Aug 8, 2013, 02:14 PM
Sorry all I'm a bit dense today. Is Dropbox sync being removed from all versions or just 1Password 3?

Also I've been using Dashlane and I think I'm starting to like it better.

Forget it, answered above while I was apparently taking 20 minutes to post....

unplugme71
Aug 8, 2013, 02:16 PM
I use 1Password since v3 and I like it. However, I don't like how they don't allow syncing over WebDAV.

I run a MacMini server with WebDAV and VPN. It works great with iBank on my Mac, iPad, and iPhone, yet AgileBits says it doesn't work great with 1Password. Odd. I think they are just too lazy to write the code for WebDAV since they are too butt-buddies with Dropbox.

Software should be written for the customer in mind. Seems 1Password is written to how the devs like it.

Danyboy
Aug 8, 2013, 02:31 PM
What? 1Password will not work anymore with Dropbox??? That's it, I'm switching to LastPass!

alvindarkness
Aug 8, 2013, 02:34 PM
With all this nsa spying stuff, the last thing I want to do is store anything important (even if encrypted) onto the cloud... So I am torn between options as I am absolutely in love with the 1password solution. I just wish they would bring back wi-fi syncing.

Someone mentioned USB sync, how does that work?

irDigital0l
Aug 8, 2013, 02:42 PM
Yay, purchased it for $8 on release day and got into the beta for the Mac version.

mw360
Aug 8, 2013, 02:55 PM
In the world of $0.99 and $1.99 Apps, asking $17.99 for the iOS app and $49.99 for the Mac app is already a lot. Not questioning the value, just questioning how people are still on board with the "shut up and take my money" attitude

I've previously defended their high prices, but now on discovering that they're happy to let their software break after a couple of years and offer no fixes I'm not nearly so sure.

It's ironic, since come iOS7 and Mavericks their biggest market might be the very people they're shunning now (those unable to upgrade their OS).

Stella
Aug 8, 2013, 03:08 PM
In the world of $0.99 and $1.99 Apps, asking $17.99 for the iOS app and $49.99 for the Mac app is already a lot. Not questioning the value, just questioning how people are still on board with the "shut up and take my money" attitude

They need to pay their developers want to be paid well, and not minimum wage. Otherwise they'll have no one to do the coding!

In the world of bargain basement $0.99 and $1.99 apps, people are starting to be cheap skates.

The quality of 1Password exceeds that of a $1.99 app IMO. Lowering the price may not actually get them more revenue / sales.

whyamihere
Aug 8, 2013, 03:26 PM
Wow. I'm still on v3 and was nearly ready to take advantage of this discount. Luckily I read the comments first. I have dropbox syncing set up but have never used it but figured it would be nice to upgrade to keep it just in case. Then I saw in the comments that they got rid of local wifi syncing in v4. Seriously?!? :confused: Now that's a feature I use all the time and have never had an issue with it. Goes completely against their claims that they as developers never used it and many users had problems with it.

I'll gladly save my money to stick with v3. Dropping the wifi syncing feature is a downgrade, not an upgrade. Pretty disappointed with the devs on this. :mad:

Jibbajabba
Aug 8, 2013, 03:55 PM
I am impressed how much people pay for a password app.

Zyphras
Aug 8, 2013, 04:07 PM
As a non-1password user the iOS price looks tempting, but I cannot see the point whatsoever in buying that if the Mac App is so prohibitively expensive. It would be just a total waste of time to have this on my iPhone and iPad but not synced my Mac. No way is the Mac version worth €44.99. Think I'll stick with my massive text file that I encrypt in a PGP archive, which I decrypt when needed and secure erase when done.

kirky29
Aug 8, 2013, 04:10 PM
Did you even read the linked blog post from Agilebits?

Dropbox will continue to work on these platforms:

1Password 3 for Mac
1Password for Windows
1Password 4 for iOS
1Password for Android
1Password for Windows Phone

I must admit I didn't read it. Thanks for clarifying it though :)

/dev/toaster
Aug 8, 2013, 04:14 PM
This is so unfair! Shame on AgileBits. First off, I had to pay full price some time ago because of this issue. Suddenly they're offering a huge discount, I wonder why... OH THAT'S RIGHT! iOS 7 AND MAVERICKS ALREADY HAVE PASSWORD SYNCING!

To top it off, look at the pathetic Android version they have. Seriously, even if you don't care for Android, take a look at it on Google Play. Why? Because a company that puts out half-assed products on the market and applies discounts to some users but not others does not deserve attention.

AgileBits, get your act together, mmkay?

Nice try NSA

opq
Aug 8, 2013, 04:26 PM
They need to pay their developers want to be paid well, and not minimum wage. Otherwise they'll have no one to do the coding!

In the world of bargain basement $0.99 and $1.99 apps, people are starting to be cheap skates.

The quality of 1Password exceeds that of a $1.99 app IMO. Lowering the price may not actually get them more revenue / sales.

Everyone needs to be paid well, I have no objection to that. To be paid well they have to show the people who pay for their apps their business is valued. And that doesn't include ignoring a bunch of people who really value Wi Fi Sync and now telling people that's the only solution

dazey
Aug 8, 2013, 04:55 PM
I love the software but have only ever used wifi sync and have no desire to put my passwords on dropbox, so I won't be upgrading!

Stella
Aug 8, 2013, 04:57 PM
Everyone needs to be paid well, I have no objection to that. To be paid well they have to show the people who pay for their apps their business is valued. And that doesn't include ignoring a bunch of people who really value Wi Fi Sync and now telling people that's the only solution

They'll be adding syncing via cable according to the FAQ.

I'm surprised they don't re-add wifi syncing since it appears to be a popular choice.

lilianeloirinha
Aug 8, 2013, 05:25 PM
While you are right that they have apps for multiple platforms, you should also mention that the apps differ tremendously depending on which platform they run. 1P for Mac has differences compared to 1P for Windows, but if you want to be truly shocked, take a look at the 1P for iOS vs 1P for Android...

The Android version is abysmal. I am not exaggerating, see it for yourself. It can't even write/edit items! It's just a "viewer". It takes AGES to sync. It does absolutely NOTHING close to what the iOS version can do. And the irony is that they could probably even integrate the functionality within the Android Browser/Chrome for Android, because the system is more open than iOS. Go take a look at the forums provided by AgileBits... while they do reply in most threads, most replies where users ask when they will fix or implement things go like this "we won't tell you when, just wait or find someone else".

Well, you know what AgileBits, if you are reading, I really hope you FAIL. I really do. I hope you fail so hard that you'll learn the lesson, because arrogant businesses need to learn the hard way. Apple will steal lots of your market share and then you'll learn to support other platforms to gain your bread. As per the the other platforms, they won't miss much if you fail, will they? After all, your products are horrible on anything other than OS X or iOS. If you can't support other platforms, don't make claims that you're selling apps that are cross-platform, because this is false advertisement. After this news, this is the LAST time I purchased any software from AgileBits. I used 1P since version 2 and purchased multiple licenses of v3 out of the App Store, then I supported their transition to the MAS by buying the licence again on the MAS, I bought all their iOS versions, etcetera. Never again.

PS. Stella, I'd appreciate full disclosure, can you please just say that you work for AgileBits? Because you do.

Not useless. 1Password will work with more sites than Safari will in the next version. 1Password have had specific bug fixes to work with authentication forms, I expect Safari will require the same.

Additionally, 1Password is multi-browser / multi platform, but iCloud keychain user / passwords will be Safari only.

opq
Aug 8, 2013, 06:04 PM
They'll be adding syncing via cable according to the FAQ.

I'm surprised they don't re-add wifi syncing since it appears to be a popular choice.


Cable syncing is WAY less convenient. Especially since my iPhone uses Lightning and my ipad uses the 30 pin dock connector. I Wi-Fi sync my devices, and that was what drew me into getting 1Password 3

Hopefully! But I'm not holding my breath. even if they do it'll be the key feature of 1Password 5 and they'll make us pay $50 again for each platform. I don't mind paying for upgrades, but what exactly did 1Password 4 even bring, other than a fresh coat of paint??

AGKyle
Aug 8, 2013, 06:21 PM
Ok, friendly neighborhood AgileBits Tech Support here to help answer some questions and concerns. Sorry for the delay here, this is my _second_ time responding, thanks to the forum for logging me out and erasing my reply... last time I trust this forum. Apparently I need to write up replies in a text editor first :)

I am still using the older version due to them removing WiFi Sync in the latest version...

1Password was the most valuable app to me too. But since they removed WiFi Sync it is pretty much useless now.

They have some tight bond with DropBox and are pushing that solution hard. They told me they were removing WiFi syncing because it had serious issues, I questioned that with the following quote from their own material.

"Over the years, our team fell in love with the ease of Dropbox and stopped using Wi-Fi sync altogether. Since none of us used it, and in light of the feature’s problematic nature for many of our users, we decided not to include Wi-Fi syncing when we rewrote 1Password 4 from the ground up."

Their response to me was "Wi-Fi Syncing is gone, and not coming back for 1Password. I understand that is not the answer you want, but it is the answer.
"

Got that everybody?

I did notice some passing comment recently that since the NSA revelations, they are looking at ways to bring back local network sync. But their attitude has left a bitter taste. Yes. I did try their USB Sync app. No it is not the solution.

We thought long and hard about removing wifi sync. It wasn't an easy decision but as someone who helped troubleshoot wifi related syncing issues I can assure you that many of the users who are unhappy with its removal didn't run into the trouble many other users seen. It wasn't pretty. There are so many network configurations, so many different routers, and so many different quirks that we couldn't support it for most of our users. You wouldn't believe the number of issues with networking equipment you can run into. Between proxy servers, firewalls, router configurations and all manner of other things...

USB Sync allows us more control. We have better ways to troubleshoot it, we have better understanding of where it can fail and it isn't dependent on millions of different networking configuration settings.

We hope that our unhappy users can try to see it from our perspective, we do the same with you and we hear every wifi sync request loud and clear. We just don't have a good way to provide it or fix it from what we had previously. Mutual understanding is good :) Once both parties understand each other then progress can be made.

If you have big thoughts on usb sync or wifi sync please contact us directly, a public forum isn't a good place to discuss it because things can get lost very easily. Especially when it isn't our own forum.

Wait wait, so will my 1Password Dropbox syncing stop working on my Mac too?

Only on 1Password 3 for iOS. All other platforms will continue to work, including Mac, Windows, iOS (version 4 of 1Password) and Android and Windows Phone.

1Password is easily the app I value most.

Thanks for the positive comment. I always try to respond to these because I feel like sometimes they can get lost in the sea of other questions. So, we all appreciate seeing the positive comments. :)

I really hope older versions of the software won't lose Dropbox Sync. I rely on it! I have a Mac, iPhone, iPad, and Windows PC that I keep synced this way.

EDIT: Nevermind, now I get it. This only effects iOS, so if I have to buy a new copy then at least I'll only have to buy it for one platform. Still, this stinks.

Just to clarify here, it's only 1Password 3 for iOS, version 4 for iOS will continue to work fine.

We agree, it stinks. We're trying to do what we can to help users though. The sale and trying to offer work arounds. Our support team is working around the clock to try to assist and answer any questions. We're trying to help however we can.

Ok, so what about us iPad 1 users that can't upgrade to iOS 6 and are forced to stay with 1Passsword 3?...and are not ready to buy a new iPad yet....:(

Yes, exactly this. I sill have an iPad 1 that works just fine. Suddenly an app I paid for is going to lose its key functionality? I don't see anything in 1pw 4 that demands whatever minor changes iOS6 brought (maps and passbook!)

If you can, just use wifi sync. It is for Mac only. But you can use Dropbox sync in addition to wifi sync. So, if you have any new devices running 1Password 4 for iOS, then you can continue to sync those with Dropbox, but the iPad 1 can sync via wifi. Inconvenient perhaps, but it does work.

If you need help setting this up let us know at our support email. Link in my signature.

Sorry all I'm a bit dense today. Is Dropbox sync being removed from all versions or just 1Password 3?

Also I've been using Dashlane and I think I'm starting to like it better.

Only version 3 of 1Password for iOS only.

Mac, Windows, Android, Windows Phone and 1Password 4 for iOS will continue to sync with Dropbox.

When are they releasing 1Password 4 for the Mac? I'd like to have it on OS X too since I use it on my iPad and iPhone but I'm not going to pay for 3 when 4 is right around the corner, especially knowing that they do make you pay for new versions.

We've sent emails inviting all beta applicants to try the beta application as of today. That's over 25000 users trying 1Password 4 for Mac. We want to release it as soon as we can but we need to do thorough testing and there are still a few bugs and unfinished features.

I can't give a date, but definitely stay tuned, we'll get it out to you as soon as we can!

As for version 3, you're welcome to buy 1Password 3 for Mac now, you'll get a free upgrade to version 4 for Mac. We've been doing that all year.

They didn't add wifi sync and backup in 1password 4 plus you can't copy a keychain folder to iTunes file sharing in windows. Not everybody wants to sync their passwords to the cloud (which is turned ON by default).

But if you use ifunbox you can export your 1password data for backup and import it to a new device or after a restore etc so no need for the cloud and it's a work around for the iTunes file sharing in windows which doesn't work and the none existent wifi backup feature.

Yea, this is a not so great situation right? We agree though.

1Password 4 for iOS CAN backup to Windows, but cannot restore. We have some ideas for how to fix this (such as allowing a zipped version of the keychain folder to be added instead). I'll stress this with our developers to see if we can get some progress on this.

Also, iCloud syncing is not turned on by default any longer. During the initial setup process you're asked if you want to enable it or not. So, improved now :)

Is this not going to be useless once iCloud Keychain comes out in September?

We can't really discuss things that weren't in the keynote, but here's a list of things we feel differentiate us.

* We work on Mac, Windows, iOS, Android and Windows Phone.
* We provide extension support for Chrome, Firefox, and Internet Explorer, in addition to Safari.
* We provide other syncing solutions, including Dropbox sync which is multi-platform. Need to use a PC at work? We can work with that.

At AgileBits we think this is a good thing. Apple being involved now provides a bit of a boost in mindshare right? Users see that this is a problem with their passwords and want to do something about it. iCloud Keychain brings to more people's attention what we've been trying to do for years.

1Password is good for both new users and advanced users, ultimately, we feel that iCloud is not a one size fits all solution and for those who are looking for a power user app or more features or cross platform integration, we can fill that gap.

At the end of the day, we want users to be more secure. Even if it isn't with our app.

This was my main password app, then I went with an Android device and discovered they don't truly support Android (their Android app is NOTHING close to the iOS app) so I had to move to LastPass. Too bad they don't support an OS with such a huge market share.

We're working hard on 1Password for Android. See a very quick preview here:

http://blog.agilebits.com/2013/07/14/1password-new-android-screenshots/

Yes, exactly this. I sill have an iPad 1 that works just fine. Suddenly an app I paid for is going to lose its key functionality? I don't see anything in 1pw 4 that demands whatever minor changes iOS6 brought (maps and passbook!)

AGKyle
Aug 8, 2013, 06:45 PM
I use 1Password since v3 and I like it. However, I don't like how they don't allow syncing over WebDAV.

I run a MacMini server with WebDAV and VPN. It works great with iBank on my Mac, iPad, and iPhone, yet AgileBits says it doesn't work great with 1Password. Odd. I think they are just too lazy to write the code for WebDAV since they are too butt-buddies with Dropbox.

Software should be written for the customer in mind. Seems 1Password is written to how the devs like it.

WebDav was something we tried in the past. WebDav however is not like a typical network connection. Basically every single file is a new transaction. Think like a webpage downloading, it opens multiple network connections, one for each file until a limit is reached.

1Password's most widespread data file (AgileKeychain) has a new file for every single data item in your keychain. This meant that syncing was slow due to the nature of the data file.

Also, checking for new updates to items was also difficult because we had to download every file.

Our new data format is much smaller (file number wise) so webdav may be possible in the future. No promises but I'll definitely mention it to the developers.

The apps that you claim do work with WebDav, likely didn't have the sheer number of files we did. Thus, they worked fine.

Hope that explains in more detail why it didn't work in the past.


What? 1Password will not work anymore with Dropbox??? That's it, I'm switching to LastPass!

1Password 3 for iOS will not work with Dropbox. 1Password 4 for iOS, 1Password for Mac, Windows, Android and Windows Phone will all work fine with Dropbox.

The Sky is not falling :)

With all this nsa spying stuff, the last thing I want to do is store anything important (even if encrypted) onto the cloud... So I am torn between options as I am absolutely in love with the 1password solution. I just wish they would bring back wi-fi syncing.

Someone mentioned USB sync, how does that work?

You can read about it here:

http://learn.agilebits.com/1Password4/iOS/Sync/USB/ios-usb-sync-faqs.html

It works well for most people. There are bugs though thus, still beta.

I've previously defended their high prices, but now on discovering that they're happy to let their software break after a couple of years and offer no fixes I'm not nearly so sure.

It's ironic, since come iOS7 and Mavericks their biggest market might be the very people they're shunning now (those unable to upgrade their OS).

We aren't happy to let it break. The issue is that Apple does not allow us to upgrade applications we've removed for sale from the App Store.

Do be aware we are _not_ happy to let it break. But, at some point there is little we can do. We lobbied to have Dropbox continue to support it longer. Unfortunately, they're pulling down that API support on September 1st.

Wow. I'm still on v3 and was nearly ready to take advantage of this discount. Luckily I read the comments first. I have dropbox syncing set up but have never used it but figured it would be nice to upgrade to keep it just in case. Then I saw in the comments that they got rid of local wifi syncing in v4. Seriously?!? :confused: Now that's a feature I use all the time and have never had an issue with it. Goes completely against their claims that they as developers never used it and many users had problems with it.

I'll gladly save my money to stick with v3. Dropping the wifi syncing feature is a downgrade, not an upgrade. Pretty disappointed with the devs on this. :mad:

I made a comment at the top of my previous reply here. Please please read that.

I love the software but have only ever used wifi sync and have no desire to put my passwords on dropbox, so I won't be upgrading!

USB Sync is an option:

http://learn.agilebits.com/1Password4/iOS/Sync/USB/ios-usb-sync-faqs.html

They'll be adding syncing via cable according to the FAQ.

I'm surprised they don't re-add wifi syncing since it appears to be a popular choice.

We've found that the number of people unhappy about wifi sync is pretty small, but very vocal :)

We hear them loud and clear. We just don't have a good solution for them outside of USB sync at the moment.

While you are right that they have apps for multiple platforms, you should also mention that the apps differ tremendously depending on which platform they run. 1P for Mac has differences compared to 1P for Windows, but if you want to be truly shocked, take a look at the 1P for iOS vs 1P for Android...

The Android version is abysmal. I am not exaggerating, see it for yourself. It can't even write/edit items! It's just a "viewer". It takes AGES to sync. It does absolutely NOTHING close to what the iOS version can do. And the irony is that they could probably even integrate the functionality within the Android Browser/Chrome for Android, because the system is more open than iOS. Go take a look at the forums provided by AgileBits... while they do reply in most threads, most replies where users ask when they will fix or implement things go like this "we won't tell you when, just wait or find someone else".

Well, you know what AgileBits, if you are reading, I really hope you FAIL. I really do. I hope you fail so hard that you'll learn the lesson, because arrogant businesses need to learn the hard way. Apple will steal lots of your market share and then you'll learn to support other platforms to gain your bread. As per the the other platforms, they won't miss much if you fail, will they? After all, your products are horrible on anything other than OS X or iOS. If you can't support other platforms, don't make claims that you're selling apps that are cross-platform, because this is false advertisement. After this news, this is the LAST time I purchased any software from AgileBits. I used 1P since version 2 and purchased multiple licenses of v3 out of the App Store, then I supported their transition to the MAS by buying the licence again on the MAS, I bought all their iOS versions, etcetera. Never again.

PS. Stella, I'd appreciate full disclosure, can you please just say that you work for AgileBits? Because you do.

Stella does not work for AgileBits. We have users who are quite happy with the application, who tend to be very vocal and try to provide help and answers. Just like any other person on here :) Cut him/her a little slack, if you want to yell at someone, please yell at me as I am an employee with AgileBits. Your frustration is better directed at me.

We're working hard to do what we can to bring all platforms on a level playing field. What you're seeing are growing pains. We started as a small Mac only shop. Then grew to iOS, then it expanded. But our platform support has primarily been Mac because that's where our users have been. It's clear things are growing outside of that. We have major updates coming to Android and Windows that will be the first in a series of updates that will hopefully bring feature parity (as best as we can provide, iCloud for example is Mac/iOS only).

We reply to every user on our forum. Khad, our main guy behind the forums takes pride in making sure he replies to everyone. Will the answers always contain valuable information regarding timeframes and fixes? No. We don't do this not to frustrate you but to make sure we aren't promising on something we can't deliver. If we said "yea, it'll be available in the Spring of 2013" and that time slips by, you'd be upset. So, we don't provide time frames until we're ready to provide them. It's out of respect for you that we don't provide time frames. When we provide one it means we've got something in the oven and ready to ship soon. We don't want to mislead. Contrary to your views, we value our users and their opinions pretty greatly. We listen to them, we bring our users concerns and requests to the people who can change things and many of those changes came in 1Password 4. Sure, we made a few users upset along the way by removing things but we felt we had pretty good reason to do so. We never say never though, so if enough users tell us they want something we'll seriously look at it.

If you'd like to discuss your concerns in more detail please email us, link in my signature, and mention me. Someone will make sure it gets to me and I'll be happy to discuss your concerns and answer any questions you have. Perhaps you may even get into the Android beta if you want. But, that's your choice. :)

----------

Cable syncing is WAY less convenient. Especially since my iPhone uses Lightning and my ipad uses the 30 pin dock connector. I Wi-Fi sync my devices, and that was what drew me into getting 1Password 3

Hopefully! But I'm not holding my breath. even if they do it'll be the key feature of 1Password 5 and they'll make us pay $50 again for each platform. I don't mind paying for upgrades, but what exactly did 1Password 4 even bring, other than a fresh coat of paint??

Thanks for the feedback about usb sync!

We have only charged for 2 upgrades in our entire history.

* 1Password 3 for Mac
* 1Password 4 for iOS

All other versions were free upgrades to existing users. So, a user who purchased version 1 of 1Password for Mac got version 2 for free.

All users who purchased 1Password for iOS (the original version) got 1Password 2 and 3 for iOS for free.

1Password 4 for iOS was the second upgrade we ever charged for. Likewise, many other companies charge for every upgrade. We haven't.

As for what did 1Password 4 for iOS bring?

* Favorites
* Folders (something iOS didn't have but Mac/Win did)
* Browser with tabs (previous version had no tabs)
* Browser fills credit cards, identities, and usernames/passwords (previous version did logins only)
* iCloud Syncing (raving requests for this since iCloud was announced)
* Attachment viewing (no attachment support in previous versions)
* Automatic Clipboard Clearing (just like the Mac!
* Custom Sections and Fields within our existing Categories (you can now add your own data to our existing templates!)
* Many many more

1Password 4 for Mac brings all of the above and many more. I think most users will see it and realize why it has taken awhile to see the light of day. It's been a long hard road for our developers. Believe it or not, iOS was primarily written by 2 guys. The Mac version has primarily been written by 3. Both of these updates are ground up rewrites. From scratch. It was a brand new envisioning of 1Password.

We have much more planned too. :)

lilianeloirinha
Aug 8, 2013, 07:24 PM
You tell me to chill and I tell you're a shill.

And to answer your question, YES.

Chill ok?
Companies has to have discount 365 days a year to make you happy?

----------

Thank you for replying to my post! I will be getting in touch about joining your Android beta, and needless to say, I am very interested. I like your product on OS X and on iOS, I just don't appreciate lack of care on the other platforms, so I am really happy to know that you're taking steps to resolve the issues, and thankfully I got a better reply than I'm used to seeing in your forums, at least you offered something to try in the meantime instead of just leaving me in the dark, hoping to see a decent Android version.

WebDav was something we tried in the past. WebDav however is not like a typical network connection. Basically every single file is a new transaction. Think like a webpage downloading, it opens multiple network connections, one for each file until a limit is reached.

1Password's most widespread data file (AgileKeychain) has a new file for every single data item in your keychain. This meant that syncing was slow due to the nature of the data file.

Also, checking for new updates to items was also difficult because we had to download every file.

Our new data format is much smaller (file number wise) so webdav may be possible in the future. No promises but I'll definitely mention it to the developers.

The apps that you claim do work with WebDav, likely didn't have the sheer number of files we did. Thus, they worked fine.

Hope that explains in more detail why it didn't work in the past.




1Password 3 for iOS will not work with Dropbox. 1Password 4 for iOS, 1Password for Mac, Windows, Android and Windows Phone will all work fine with Dropbox.

The Sky is not falling :)



You can read about it here:

http://learn.agilebits.com/1Password4/iOS/Sync/USB/ios-usb-sync-faqs.html

It works well for most people. There are bugs though thus, still beta.



We aren't happy to let it break. The issue is that Apple does not allow us to upgrade applications we've removed for sale from the App Store.

Do be aware we are _not_ happy to let it break. But, at some point there is little we can do. We lobbied to have Dropbox continue to support it longer. Unfortunately, they're pulling down that API support on September 1st.



I made a comment at the top of my previous reply here. Please please read that.



USB Sync is an option:

http://learn.agilebits.com/1Password4/iOS/Sync/USB/ios-usb-sync-faqs.html



We've found that the number of people unhappy about wifi sync is pretty small, but very vocal :)

We hear them loud and clear. We just don't have a good solution for them outside of USB sync at the moment.



Stella does not work for AgileBits. We have users who are quite happy with the application, who tend to be very vocal and try to provide help and answers. Just like any other person on here :) Cut him/her a little slack, if you want to yell at someone, please yell at me as I am an employee with AgileBits. Your frustration is better directed at me.

We're working hard to do what we can to bring all platforms on a level playing field. What you're seeing are growing pains. We started as a small Mac only shop. Then grew to iOS, then it expanded. But our platform support has primarily been Mac because that's where our users have been. It's clear things are growing outside of that. We have major updates coming to Android and Windows that will be the first in a series of updates that will hopefully bring feature parity (as best as we can provide, iCloud for example is Mac/iOS only).

We reply to every user on our forum. Khad, our main guy behind the forums takes pride in making sure he replies to everyone. Will the answers always contain valuable information regarding timeframes and fixes? No. We don't do this not to frustrate you but to make sure we aren't promising on something we can't deliver. If we said "yea, it'll be available in the Spring of 2013" and that time slips by, you'd be upset. So, we don't provide time frames until we're ready to provide them. It's out of respect for you that we don't provide time frames. When we provide one it means we've got something in the oven and ready to ship soon. We don't want to mislead. Contrary to your views, we value our users and their opinions pretty greatly. We listen to them, we bring our users concerns and requests to the people who can change things and many of those changes came in 1Password 4. Sure, we made a few users upset along the way by removing things but we felt we had pretty good reason to do so. We never say never though, so if enough users tell us they want something we'll seriously look at it.

If you'd like to discuss your concerns in more detail please email us, link in my signature, and mention me. Someone will make sure it gets to me and I'll be happy to discuss your concerns and answer any questions you have. Perhaps you may even get into the Android beta if you want. But, that's your choice. :)

----------



Thanks for the feedback about usb sync!

We have only charged for 2 upgrades in our entire history.

* 1Password 3 for Mac
* 1Password 4 for iOS

All other versions were free upgrades to existing users. So, a user who purchased version 1 of 1Password for Mac got version 2 for free.

All users who purchased 1Password for iOS (the original version) got 1Password 2 and 3 for iOS for free.

1Password 4 for iOS was the second upgrade we ever charged for. Likewise, many other companies charge for every upgrade. We haven't.

As for what did 1Password 4 for iOS bring?

* Favorites
* Folders (something iOS didn't have but Mac/Win did)
* Browser with tabs (previous version had no tabs)
* Browser fills credit cards, identities, and usernames/passwords (previous version did logins only)
* iCloud Syncing (raving requests for this since iCloud was announced)
* Attachment viewing (no attachment support in previous versions)
* Automatic Clipboard Clearing (just like the Mac!
* Custom Sections and Fields within our existing Categories (you can now add your own data to our existing templates!)
* Many many more

1Password 4 for Mac brings all of the above and many more. I think most users will see it and realize why it has taken awhile to see the light of day. It's been a long hard road for our developers. Believe it or not, iOS was primarily written by 2 guys. The Mac version has primarily been written by 3. Both of these updates are ground up rewrites. From scratch. It was a brand new envisioning of 1Password.

We have much more planned too. :)

/dev/toaster
Aug 8, 2013, 07:33 PM
What? 1Password will not work anymore with Dropbox??? That's it, I'm switching to LastPass!

The newest version does support it.

saberahul
Aug 8, 2013, 08:46 PM
I enjoyed 1P until v4 was released because of the way the whole thing worked out. I support the idea that companies need to stay alive and need users to upgrade but by removing the old version altogether and revoking update capabilities, they aren't doing much good to users who wish not to upgrade. Let's not forget that we paid for that and by breaking it - the purchase basically goes down the drain. I'm not going to complain about scant cents; however, if Agile kept the old version alive, made it cheaper than the new version due to lack of new features, but still updated it in case things like this happen, I would have been a lot happier.

Anyhow, my post isn't going to change reality. I've been using OneSafe on my iOS devices and Mac and am very happy with it (I just wish they would put in a full browser in the iOS version). Needless to say, I will likely remove all 3rd party apps once Mavericks and 7 are publicly released.

SandPebble
Aug 8, 2013, 09:09 PM
I use Last Pass. I highly recommend it.

Stella
Aug 8, 2013, 09:13 PM
PS. Stella, I'd appreciate full disclosure, can you please just say that you work for AgileBits? Because you do.

I do not work at AgileBits and in fact find ObjectiveC extremely tedious.

ConCat
Aug 8, 2013, 09:39 PM
We can't really discuss things that weren't in the keynote

Erm...
https://www.dropbox.com/s/kzhq1ne7nl6gfxs/Screen%20Shot%202013-08-08%20at%2010.36.02%20PM.png?dl=1

I do not work at AgileBits and in fact find ObjectiveC extremely tedious.

How much Objective-C development have you done? Its smalltalk-like syntax is far clearer than any other language I've ever used... Perhaps you're just used to C syntax?

BMNEUR
Aug 8, 2013, 10:12 PM
I'll hold off until iCloud Keychain launches for free.

alkalifly
Aug 8, 2013, 10:32 PM
It's not like AgileBits are going in to 1password v3 and *removing* the ability to sync with Dropbox. It is Dropbox who is changing their API and breaking the functionality, and I don't believe that Apple would allow AgileBits to distribute an update to v3 now that v4 is out and being distributed on the App Store.

Sure, it stinks when companies remove features, but I'd like to think that AgileBits can take the time they would otherwise be spending having to troubleshoot wifi sync in order to improve other features of the software without having to hire more developers and raise their prices. Plus, with Dropbox sync, you are storing a file that is itself encrypted with 256-bit AES on servers that Dropbox further encrypts with 256-bit AES and transports via SSL. I can't imagine that is any less secure than many people's home wifi networks

opq
Aug 9, 2013, 12:43 AM
It's not like AgileBits are going in to 1password v3 and *removing* the ability to sync with Dropbox. It is Dropbox who is changing their API and breaking the functionality, and I don't believe that Apple would allow AgileBits to distribute an update to v3 now that v4 is out and being distributed on the App Store.

Sure, it stinks when companies remove features, but I'd like to think that AgileBits can take the time they would otherwise be spending having to troubleshoot wifi sync in order to improve other features of the software without having to hire more developers and raise their prices. Plus, with Dropbox sync, you are storing a file that is itself encrypted with 256-bit AES on servers that Dropbox further encrypts with 256-bit AES and transports via SSL. I can't imagine that is any less secure than many people's home wifi networks

The issue is the workaround suggested by drop box. Obviously wi fi sync is *somewhat* useful at least then, right?

----------

We can't really discuss things that weren't in the keynote, but here's a list of things we feel differentiate us.

* We work on Mac, Windows, iOS, Android and Windows Phone.
* We provide extension support for Chrome, Firefox, and Internet Explorer, in addition to Safari.
* We provide other syncing solutions, including Dropbox sync which is multi-platform. Need to use a PC at work? We can work with that.


The Windows Phone client hasn't been updated in FOREVER! It has almost none of the functionality and looks disappointingly ugly! Oh and it only works with Dropbox. Are there plans for a new version?

alkalifly
Aug 9, 2013, 01:51 AM
The issue is the workaround suggested by drop box. Obviously wi fi sync is *somewhat* useful at least then, right?

No doubt it is a useful feature for the people who use it (tautology) but it sounds like it was not working very well for some people, so it is all about tradeoffs. I prefer Dropbox syncing myself, but never updated to v4 because v3 worked fine and I didn't want to pay $18. Now that an update is required to keep using Dropbox sync, I think AgileBits did the right thing with this >50% discount, and I took advantage of it as soon as I saw the news

sinsin07
Aug 9, 2013, 03:30 AM
eWallet for the win. Much nicer.

Reason077
Aug 9, 2013, 04:18 AM
How does this compare with the new "iCloud Keychain" feature in iOS 7 and OS X Mavericks?

I'm guessing that iCloud Keychain will be better since it'll be more tightly integrated with the OS. So, there isn't much point purchasing 1Password unless you plan to stick with old OS versions for a while?

Stella
Aug 9, 2013, 05:40 AM
Erm...
[TIMG]
How much Objective-C development have you done? Its smalltalk-like syntax is far clearer than any other language I've ever used... Perhaps you're just used to C syntax?

Several years worth. ObjectiveC is very clear to read. Very verbose. ObjectiveC has its positives and negatives. Just find it tedious personally.

jonnysods
Aug 9, 2013, 07:47 AM
I love the desktop version of this. Don't really care for the app though. Not as integrated.

ValSalva
Aug 9, 2013, 07:50 AM
I love the desktop version of this. Don't really care for the app though. Not as integrated.

I don't think it can be with iOS sandboxing. You have to use 1Password's browser. It's not as convenient but AgileBits has no choice :(

The two most important basic apps on my Macs are 1Password and Dropbox.

volfan615
Aug 9, 2013, 08:03 AM
Ok, friendly neighborhood AgileBits Tech Support here to help answer some questions and concerns. Sorry for the delay here, this is my _second_ time responding, thanks to the forum for logging me out and erasing my reply... last time I trust this forum. Apparently I need to write up replies in a text editor first :)





We thought long and hard about removing wifi sync. It wasn't an easy decision but as someone who helped troubleshoot wifi related syncing issues I can assure you that many of the users who are unhappy with its removal didn't run into the trouble many other users seen. It wasn't pretty. There are so many network configurations, so many different routers, and so many different quirks that we couldn't support it for most of our users. You wouldn't believe the number of issues with networking equipment you can run into. Between proxy servers, firewalls, router configurations and all manner of other things...

USB Sync allows us more control. We have better ways to troubleshoot it, we have better understanding of where it can fail and it isn't dependent on millions of different networking configuration settings.

We hope that our unhappy users can try to see it from our perspective, we do the same with you and we hear every wifi sync request loud and clear. We just don't have a good way to provide it or fix it from what we had previously. Mutual understanding is good :) Once both parties understand each other then progress can be made.

If you have big thoughts on usb sync or wifi sync please contact us directly, a public forum isn't a good place to discuss it because things can get lost very easily. Especially when it isn't our own forum.



Only on 1Password 3 for iOS. All other platforms will continue to work, including Mac, Windows, iOS (version 4 of 1Password) and Android and Windows Phone.



Thanks for the positive comment. I always try to respond to these because I feel like sometimes they can get lost in the sea of other questions. So, we all appreciate seeing the positive comments. :)



Just to clarify here, it's only 1Password 3 for iOS, version 4 for iOS will continue to work fine.

We agree, it stinks. We're trying to do what we can to help users though. The sale and trying to offer work arounds. Our support team is working around the clock to try to assist and answer any questions. We're trying to help however we can.





If you can, just use wifi sync. It is for Mac only. But you can use Dropbox sync in addition to wifi sync. So, if you have any new devices running 1Password 4 for iOS, then you can continue to sync those with Dropbox, but the iPad 1 can sync via wifi. Inconvenient perhaps, but it does work.

If you need help setting this up let us know at our support email. Link in my signature.



Only version 3 of 1Password for iOS only.

Mac, Windows, Android, Windows Phone and 1Password 4 for iOS will continue to sync with Dropbox.



We've sent emails inviting all beta applicants to try the beta application as of today. That's over 25000 users trying 1Password 4 for Mac. We want to release it as soon as we can but we need to do thorough testing and there are still a few bugs and unfinished features.

I can't give a date, but definitely stay tuned, we'll get it out to you as soon as we can!

As for version 3, you're welcome to buy 1Password 3 for Mac now, you'll get a free upgrade to version 4 for Mac. We've been doing that all year.



Yea, this is a not so great situation right? We agree though.

1Password 4 for iOS CAN backup to Windows, but cannot restore. We have some ideas for how to fix this (such as allowing a zipped version of the keychain folder to be added instead). I'll stress this with our developers to see if we can get some progress on this.

Also, iCloud syncing is not turned on by default any longer. During the initial setup process you're asked if you want to enable it or not. So, improved now :)



We can't really discuss things that weren't in the keynote, but here's a list of things we feel differentiate us.

* We work on Mac, Windows, iOS, Android and Windows Phone.
* We provide extension support for Chrome, Firefox, and Internet Explorer, in addition to Safari.
* We provide other syncing solutions, including Dropbox sync which is multi-platform. Need to use a PC at work? We can work with that.

At AgileBits we think this is a good thing. Apple being involved now provides a bit of a boost in mindshare right? Users see that this is a problem with their passwords and want to do something about it. iCloud Keychain brings to more people's attention what we've been trying to do for years.

1Password is good for both new users and advanced users, ultimately, we feel that iCloud is not a one size fits all solution and for those who are looking for a power user app or more features or cross platform integration, we can fill that gap.

At the end of the day, we want users to be more secure. Even if it isn't with our app.



We're working hard on 1Password for Android. See a very quick preview here:

http://blog.agilebits.com/2013/07/14/1password-new-android-screenshots/

Isn't the new Keychain in the next version of OS X going to make this product obsolete?

shartypants
Aug 9, 2013, 08:29 AM
I am impressed how much people pay for a password app.

You don't use such an app? We have just way too many accounts these days!

----------

Isn't the new Keychain in the next version of OS X going to make this product obsolete?

It might have some better features? But yeah, I think most people will just use what's in the new OS.

arkmannj
Aug 9, 2013, 08:39 AM
Dear AGKyle,

First I want to thank you for taking the time to reply to everyone. Especially with some heat in the fire, you are to be commended for stepping in.

Second, I LOVE 1Password, and have only ever had 2 real complaints (listed below) 1Passord is easily one of my most used apps, and I recommend it to friends all the time. I"m pretty sure there are atleast a couple dozen people out there using it based purely on my recommendation.

Third, I complain because I do love the app, and I do love using my money to support independent developers, etc... But at the end of the day I need to make a decision, does an app meet my needs, and my wants for the money I spend. (a personal ROI evaluation on every purchase I make essentually) so when I see something I feel could be improved I want to make mention of it to developers so that I can continue to have a positive ROI and justify the purchases.

Wifi Sync has worked flawless for me, and so the thought of losing it really is a big deal, and certainly for my personal uses deflates the value of the product by having it missing. I do understand and try to see your view point of supporting it. But right now there really is not another acceptible alternative. If we use Dropbox we are tying are most valueble data to a third party in the cloud who may or may not be sharing that information with others (PRISM comes to mind) and USB sync is still in Bete isn't it? and besides, a wired solution really isn't a fair replacement for a wireless one.

I again, do understand you have to make your own determinations of value, and if WiFi was such a support nightmare then I can see why you would need to consider its removal. But I personally haven't heard of any issues with all the people I know that use it. Would it be possible to add it back in as an "advanced" feature, with warnings, etc...?

------------------
The only two issues I've really had were:
* Mac Versions didn't have exact feature parity -
For example, The version of 1Password downloaded directly from agilebits didn't have the menubar access that the "same version" of 1Password from the app store did.

* The removal of Wifi Sync
Will 1Password 4 for Mac lose the ability to WiFi Sync with 1PAssword 3 for IOS? I really hope not.


AGKyle

AGKyle
Aug 9, 2013, 08:39 AM
I enjoyed 1P until v4 was released because of the way the whole thing worked out. I support the idea that companies need to stay alive and need users to upgrade but by removing the old version altogether and revoking update capabilities, they aren't doing much good to users who wish not to upgrade. Let's not forget that we paid for that and by breaking it - the purchase basically goes down the drain. I'm not going to complain about scant cents; however, if Agile kept the old version alive, made it cheaper than the new version due to lack of new features, but still updated it in case things like this happen, I would have been a lot happier.

Anyhow, my post isn't going to change reality. I've been using OneSafe on my iOS devices and Mac and am very happy with it (I just wish they would put in a full browser in the iOS version). Needless to say, I will likely remove all 3rd party apps once Mavericks and 7 are publicly released.

There are a lot of valid reasons for us not keeping the old app up for sale.

The biggest, there were 3 versions (iPhone, iPad, and Pro). We'd have to have kept all three up. That would've been 4 versions in the store (iPhone, iPad, Pro, and 1P4). Confusion couldn't possibly have been any worse.

We certainly wish Apple provided a better mechanism for this. Unfortunately, we are beholden to how Apple runs their store. Not to say Apple is entirely to blame but I think many developers will agree that they wish Apple provided more options for upgrading and supporting applications better after the upgrade.

That said, I don't think we were the first to do this, nor will we be the last. Tweetie 2 did this, Tweetie 1 was a separate app and was removed from the store after version 2 came out. I suspect you'll see this with many bigger indie shops as well in the future.

chabig
Aug 9, 2013, 08:42 AM
How does this compare with the new "iCloud Keychain" feature in iOS 7 and OS X Mavericks?

For one thing, the user interface of Keychain isn't as friendly.

throAU
Aug 9, 2013, 08:45 AM
This is so unfair! Shame on AgileBits. First off, I had to pay full price some time ago because of this issue. Suddenly they're offering a huge discount, I wonder why... OH THAT'S RIGHT! iOS 7 AND MAVERICKS ALREADY HAVE PASSWORD SYNCING!

iCloud keychain does not:

work with my windows machine
encrypt my database using MY private key that apple will not have before syncing to a location of my choosing
work cross-browser


I'm running mavericks, tried iCloud keychain and those details are a deal breaker for me.

1password also has a handy password generator.

And yeah, don't get the App Store version... get direct from agile bits.


edit:
If you're looking for something almost as slick, that is OPEN SOURCE, FREE and cross platform without disclosing your details to iCloud for sync - check out KeePass. I use it at work, and if i had have known about it before 1password i may have not bought 1password. 1password is still slicker though.

Jibbajabba
Aug 9, 2013, 08:49 AM
You don't use such an app? We have just way too many accounts these days!

----------



It might have some better features? But yeah, I think most people will just use what's in the new OS.

I do, just not paying that sort of money just for the sake of cloud sync. There are tons of free apps out there. Nothing stops you to store the safe on a dropbox folder and use it across devices.

AGKyle
Aug 9, 2013, 09:02 AM
The Windows Phone client hasn't been updated in FOREVER! It has almost none of the functionality and looks disappointingly ugly! Oh and it only works with Dropbox. Are there plans for a new version?

Dropbox is the most useful here because it's the most cross platform syncing service available. It works on literally every operating system/mobile device. It was the obvious choice for getting things working.

Right now, our developers are working hard on 1Password 4 for Mac, 1Password 4 for Windows and the new Android application. Windows Phone may not receive any major updates for awhile. I'm not sure what the long term plans are for it, but if you have any concerns please contact us directly via the signature link below.

How does this compare with the new "iCloud Keychain" feature in iOS 7 and OS X Mavericks?

I'm guessing that iCloud Keychain will be better since it'll be more tightly integrated with the OS. So, there isn't much point purchasing 1Password unless you plan to stick with old OS versions for a while?

I had made a post earlier in the thread about this, I believe it's on page two, you may wish to go read that.

Isn't the new Keychain in the next version of OS X going to make this product obsolete?

Same as above, there are definite pros and cons for every solution you just have to figure out which matter the most to you. Example, do you need to use a PC at work or want to use Chrome or Firefox? Well, iCloud keychain isn't going to help you there I don't think :)

Dear AGKyle,

First I want to thank you for taking the time to reply to everyone. Especially with some heat in the fire, you are to be commended for stepping in.

Second, I LOVE 1Password, and have only ever had 2 real complaints (listed below) 1Passord is easily one of my most used apps, and I recommend it to friends all the time. I"m pretty sure there are atleast a couple dozen people out there using it based purely on my recommendation.

Third, I complain because I do love the app, and I do love using my money to support independent developers, etc... But at the end of the day I need to make a decision, does an app meet my needs, and my wants for the money I spend. (a personal ROI evaluation on every purchase I make essentually) so when I see something I feel could be improved I want to make mention of it to developers so that I can continue to have a positive ROI and justify the purchases.

Wifi Sync has worked flawless for me, and so the thought of losing it really is a big deal, and certainly for my personal uses deflates the value of the product by having it missing. I do understand and try to see your view point of supporting it. But right now there really is not another acceptible alternative. If we use Dropbox we are tying are most valueble data to a third party in the cloud who may or may not be sharing that information with others (PRISM comes to mind) and USB sync is still in Bete isn't it? and besides, a wired solution really isn't a fair replacement for a wireless one.

I again, do understand you have to make your own determinations of value, and if WiFi was such a support nightmare then I can see why you would need to consider its removal. But I personally haven't heard of any issues with all the people I know that use it. Would it be possible to add it back in as an "advanced" feature, with warnings, etc...?

------------------
The only two issues I've really had were:
* Mac Versions didn't have exact feature parity -
For example, The downloaded from agilebits didn't have the menubar access that the "same version" of 1Password from the app store did.

* The removal of Wifi Sync
Will 1Password 4 for Mac lose the ability to WiFi Sync with 1PAssword 3 for IOS? I really hope not.

Glad to help however I can.

There are dozens of questions being asked about Prism and other related NSA questions on our forum. Many of those have been answered quite thoroughly by our security expert. I won't claim to know nearly as much about the security side of things as I do about the programming/technical nature in how 1Password works, that's really my area of expertise, I leave the security stuff to the guy who knows security :)

You can read all of the NSA/PRISM related questions here: http://discussions.agilebits.com/discussion/13130/prism-and-cloud-syncing-security

We merge any separate questions into this one thread, so they should all show up there.

As for USB Sync, yes, it is beta, but for most users it works flawlessly. There are a few bugs and there are a few incidents of the app crashing on startup for users. But, in the grand scheme of things, the app works for a vast majority of users who try it. If you have trouble, we're happy to help. We also have a 30 day money back guarantee, you're welcome to try the app and see if it works, USB Sync is free, but it does require 1Password 3 for Mac and 1Password 4 for iOS.

I guess I see it differently though. If I I'm so concerned about security that I don't use a cloud service, then I don't see much difference in regard to wifi vs usb. With Wifi sync you had to:

* Open 1Password on your Mac
* Open 1Password on your iPhone or iPad
* Hope they seen each other

With USB Sync:

* Plug iPhone or iPad into computer
* Open 1Password USB Sync (don't open the Mac app or the iOS app, it's not needed)
* Click Sync (or turn on automatic sync)

The steps are effectively the same, in fact, USB Sync could be one less. I'm not sure about everyone here but I carry USB Cables with me with my laptop anyway for charging purposes, it's no big deal for me to use it to sync. And arguably, I probably have more data in 1Password and add new data more quickly than a very big chunk of our users, I test logins for users who are having trouble, and I have no real issues with using USB Sync. It's no more difficult than wifi syncing was, and in fact I can sync my iPhone anywhere now, even at Starbucks because it doesn't require both devices have access to the Starbucks wifi.

There are pros and cons either way, but I think USB Sync's only con, and the hangup most people have, is that it has to be plugged in. Everything else about it is better.

Regarding your other two concerns:

1) The menu bar in the Mac App Store version was mostly a toy anyway, wait until 1P4 for Mac, then you'll see where it is headed. The _reason_ for this though was simply that the Mac App Store version required Lion and above, while the website version had to work on Snow Leopard, and the menu bar API was only in Lion and above. It wasn't because we just didn't include it, it was a matter of which OS we were targeting.

2) Yes, Wifi sync is removed from 1Password 4 for Mac. 1Password 4 was a complete rewrite for both iOS and Mac, reusing the syncing code from 1Password 3 would've been a nightmare and it would've had to have been rewritten from scratch because the data file format changed completely in 1Password 4. That said, there is no reason you can't use 1Password 4 for Mac alongside 1Password 3 for Mac.

But, I think in the end you'll like USB Sync if you give it a try. It has potential to be so much better than it is already that I think in the long run users will forget that wifi existed simply because of the advantages we can include in USB Sync.

Hope that helps answer your questions, but please do send an email and mention my name if you'd like to continue this discussion to our support email (signature link for more details) and I'll be happy to discuss further. I just can't promise I'll respond here (not our forum, too many places to check in at, etc).

unplugme71
Aug 9, 2013, 09:05 AM
WebDav was something we tried in the past. WebDav however is not like a typical network connection. Basically every single file is a new transaction. Think like a webpage downloading, it opens multiple network connections, one for each file until a limit is reached.

1Password's most widespread data file (AgileKeychain) has a new file for every single data item in your keychain. This meant that syncing was slow due to the nature of the data file.

Also, checking for new updates to items was also difficult because we had to download every file.

Our new data format is much smaller (file number wise) so webdav may be possible in the future. No promises but I'll definitely mention it to the developers.

The apps that you claim do work with WebDav, likely didn't have the sheer number of files we did. Thus, they worked fine.

Hope that explains in more detail why it didn't work in the past.




1Password 3 for iOS will not work with Dropbox. 1Password 4 for iOS, 1Password for Mac, Windows, Android and Windows Phone will all work fine with Dropbox.

The Sky is not falling :)



You can read about it here:

http://learn.agilebits.com/1Password4/iOS/Sync/USB/ios-usb-sync-faqs.html

It works well for most people. There are bugs though thus, still beta.



We aren't happy to let it break. The issue is that Apple does not allow us to upgrade applications we've removed for sale from the App Store.

Do be aware we are _not_ happy to let it break. But, at some point there is little we can do. We lobbied to have Dropbox continue to support it longer. Unfortunately, they're pulling down that API support on September 1st.



I made a comment at the top of my previous reply here. Please please read that.



USB Sync is an option:

http://learn.agilebits.com/1Password4/iOS/Sync/USB/ios-usb-sync-faqs.html



We've found that the number of people unhappy about wifi sync is pretty small, but very vocal :)

We hear them loud and clear. We just don't have a good solution for them outside of USB sync at the moment.



Stella does not work for AgileBits. We have users who are quite happy with the application, who tend to be very vocal and try to provide help and answers. Just like any other person on here :) Cut him/her a little slack, if you want to yell at someone, please yell at me as I am an employee with AgileBits. Your frustration is better directed at me.

We're working hard to do what we can to bring all platforms on a level playing field. What you're seeing are growing pains. We started as a small Mac only shop. Then grew to iOS, then it expanded. But our platform support has primarily been Mac because that's where our users have been. It's clear things are growing outside of that. We have major updates coming to Android and Windows that will be the first in a series of updates that will hopefully bring feature parity (as best as we can provide, iCloud for example is Mac/iOS only).

We reply to every user on our forum. Khad, our main guy behind the forums takes pride in making sure he replies to everyone. Will the answers always contain valuable information regarding timeframes and fixes? No. We don't do this not to frustrate you but to make sure we aren't promising on something we can't deliver. If we said "yea, it'll be available in the Spring of 2013" and that time slips by, you'd be upset. So, we don't provide time frames until we're ready to provide them. It's out of respect for you that we don't provide time frames. When we provide one it means we've got something in the oven and ready to ship soon. We don't want to mislead. Contrary to your views, we value our users and their opinions pretty greatly. We listen to them, we bring our users concerns and requests to the people who can change things and many of those changes came in 1Password 4. Sure, we made a few users upset along the way by removing things but we felt we had pretty good reason to do so. We never say never though, so if enough users tell us they want something we'll seriously look at it.

If you'd like to discuss your concerns in more detail please email us, link in my signature, and mention me. Someone will make sure it gets to me and I'll be happy to discuss your concerns and answer any questions you have. Perhaps you may even get into the Android beta if you want. But, that's your choice. :)

----------



Thanks for the feedback about usb sync!

We have only charged for 2 upgrades in our entire history.

* 1Password 3 for Mac
* 1Password 4 for iOS

All other versions were free upgrades to existing users. So, a user who purchased version 1 of 1Password for Mac got version 2 for free.

All users who purchased 1Password for iOS (the original version) got 1Password 2 and 3 for iOS for free.

1Password 4 for iOS was the second upgrade we ever charged for. Likewise, many other companies charge for every upgrade. We haven't.

As for what did 1Password 4 for iOS bring?

* Favorites
* Folders (something iOS didn't have but Mac/Win did)
* Browser with tabs (previous version had no tabs)
* Browser fills credit cards, identities, and usernames/passwords (previous version did logins only)
* iCloud Syncing (raving requests for this since iCloud was announced)
* Attachment viewing (no attachment support in previous versions)
* Automatic Clipboard Clearing (just like the Mac!
* Custom Sections and Fields within our existing Categories (you can now add your own data to our existing templates!)
* Many many more

1Password 4 for Mac brings all of the above and many more. I think most users will see it and realize why it has taken awhile to see the light of day. It's been a long hard road for our developers. Believe it or not, iOS was primarily written by 2 guys. The Mac version has primarily been written by 3. Both of these updates are ground up rewrites. From scratch. It was a brand new envisioning of 1Password.

We have much more planned too. :)

Well I do hope WebDAV is implemented. As of now, I just use 1Password on my phone as I don't have Dropbox sync setup. I don't trust a third party to host my very personal information, no matter how much security you or they claim. There's always someone somewhere within or outside the company that can simply access my files at Dropbox if they really wanted to.

arkmannj
Aug 9, 2013, 09:17 AM
2) Yes, Wifi sync is removed from 1Password 4 for Mac. 1Password 4 was a complete rewrite for both iOS and Mac, reusing the syncing code from 1Password 3 would've been a nightmare and it would've had to have been rewritten from scratch because the data file format changed completely in 1Password 4. That said, there is no reason you can't use 1Password 4 for Mac alongside 1Password 3 for Mac.


Thanks again for the reply,
One more question.

Can 1P3 and 1P4 share a data file? (locally: on IOS, on Mac; or Remotly: DropBox, etc...) so that if I am switching between apps, the data is still updated in both apps at the same time.

AGKyle

AGKyle
Aug 9, 2013, 09:45 AM
Well I do hope WebDAV is implemented. As of now, I just use 1Password on my phone as I don't have Dropbox sync setup. I don't trust a third party to host my very personal information, no matter how much security you or they claim. There's always someone somewhere within or outside the company that can simply access my files at Dropbox if they really wanted to.

Understood. I'll make sure to mention this to our developers and CEO to see if we can take another look at it in the future. No promises but this is a feature I'd like to see myself. I have a Mac Mini colo'ed and it would be nice to be able to just host it myself.

I'm on your side here, same for the rest of the people in this thread. I hope I'm making that clear. My job is to take the reports from the users, and then take them to the developers.. (does this sound too office space to everyone? :)

Thanks again for the reply,
One more question.

Can 1P3 and 1P4 share a data file? (locally: on IOS, on Mac; or Remotly: DropBox, etc...) so that if I am switching between apps, the data is still updated in both apps at the same time.

My pleasure.

Yes, I'm doing it currently by way of Dropbox. I'm running 1Password 3 (on demand for testing) syncing to Dropbox, and then mainly using 1Password 4, which is also syncing to Dropbox. It'll read the same file that 1P3 is using.

Note that there are things that differ between them, i.e. custom fields will not work in 1P3, so keep that in mind. But they'll coexist for the time being. We have every intention of providing a new Dropbox data file format (CloudKeychain) which we use internally on 1Password 4, and in iCloud. I think the last discussion I had is that we'd like to still have an option to export as AgileKeychain for legacy reasons but the default would be CloudKeychain eventually. So, that will throw a monkey wrench in things at some point and most certainly will in future versions. This is all for the sake of moving forward, not to make things difficult for people.

psejcf
Aug 9, 2013, 10:21 AM
These are my opinions based on what I have seen first hand. Where relevant, I'll refer to some posts by AGKyle (from Agilebits) in this thread.


...
Go take a look at the forums provided by AgileBits... while they do reply in most threads, most replies where users ask when they will fix or implement things go like this "we won't tell you when, just wait or find someone else".

Well, you know what AgileBits, if you are reading, I really hope you FAIL. I really do. I hope you fail so hard that you'll learn the lesson, because arrogant businesses need to learn the hard way.


I'm in full agreement in seeing Agilebits as an arrogant company (not all people who work there, but the primary founder and some people on the support forums are). To be frank, it used to be good when the company was smaller and was called Agile Web Solutions. Something changed over the years, and it seems to have become worse after the appearance of MAS and getting into multiple platforms.

According to Agile Bits website (once you click on the buy now button):

"Free Upgrade
Purchase 1Password for Mac or Windows today and receive a FREE upgrade to version 4 when it becomes available."

I know it's not easy for software product developers to reliably predict delivery dates (like AGKyle says in one of his posts), but the above statement is something Agilebits has said for the last two years - since about August/September 2011 or so (check the history yourself). Maybe 4 is just a number, but it seems like in 2011 they hadn't really thought about what 4 would be made of and how different it would be from 3. It has been on many discount sales with this statement for a long time now (not that discount sales are bad, but if you have them more than a few times you would piss off those who bought it at full price).


1Password was the most valuable app to me too. But since they removed WiFi Sync it is pretty much useless now.
...
"Over the years, our team fell in love with the ease of Dropbox and stopped using Wi-Fi sync altogether. Since none of us used it, and in light of the feature’s problematic nature for many of our users, we decided not to include Wi-Fi syncing when we rewrote 1Password 4 from the ground up."

Their response to me was "Wi-Fi Syncing is gone, and not coming back for 1Password. I understand that is not the answer you want, but it is the answer.
"

Got that everybody?


This is one of the arrogant ways some support staff answer there. Again, AGKyle mentioned in a post here that different WiFi configurations made it difficult (and maybe took a lot of their time and effort) to troubleshoot and provide solutions. I don't really know what's so difficult about making it work within a wireless LAN configuration, but I'll admit that even Dropbox's LAN sync fails many a times for no apparent reason and it starts syncing from the Dropbox servers. So there's either some merit to what AGKyle says or both Agile Bits and Dropbox could not really hire the best talent (the latter is a bit difficult to believe for Dropbox). :D Yet, applications like Dropbox or SpiderOak still have WiFi sync (or LAN sync, as they call it) and did not remove it like Agilebits did.

Agilebits could have made it an optional thing saying that it's not very reliable and that people who wanted to try it could do so by explicitly selecting it from a hidden option or advanced option in preferences (default being disabled). Over a period of time, this could have also helped stabilize the solution for most (or all) configurations if Agilebits pushed forward. I understand that there is no easy solution that would make everyone (including Agilebits) happy, but to me it seems like Agilebits just gave up a little too soon.

When Agilebits staff members say that WiFi sync is gone forever, don't take their word for it. There is precedent that they will change their minds if enough people post/protest and make them see what's important for customers. When Agilebits released the MAS version of 1Password, it said that it would be MAS exclusive (similar to Pixelmator) and that there would never ever be a Mac version of it sold on their store again (the staff cited lame excuses that didn't make sense to many customers). Though they kept firm on this decision for sometime, they did have to change course later. So if it's really important, let them know and vote with your wallets. Also, don't stop with just posting on the Agilebits support site - discussions there can be made private (and sometimes are). Additionaly, post elsewhere on the web to keep the pressure up.

I'll finish by saying that AGKyle is one of the more helpful and friendlier people in Agilebits. We can only hope he can influence the others there to make things better for the users. I use 1Password frequently, and it's frustrating to see the decisions Agilebits has taken.

jonnysods
Aug 9, 2013, 10:32 AM
I don't think it can be with iOS sandboxing. You have to use 1Password's browser. It's not as convenient but AgileBits has no choice :(

The two most important basic apps on my Macs are 1Password and Dropbox.

Same here. I can't run my business without those too.

I appreciate the security of sand boxing, but it's very limiting when it comes to functionality.

AGKyle
Aug 9, 2013, 11:05 AM
These are my opinions based on what I have seen first hand. Where relevant, I'll refer to some posts by AGKyle (from Agilebits) in this thread.


I'm in full agreement in seeing Agilebits as an arrogant company (not all people who work there, but the primary founder and some people on the support forums are). To be frank, it used to be good when the company was smaller and was called Agile Web Solutions. Something changed over the years, and it seems to have become worse after the appearance of MAS and getting into multiple platforms.



I think if you met all of us in person you'd have a different opinion here. That said, we should probably do better to not make that a requirement. Noted and will do my best to talk to the people that can change things here. This is just a tricky thing to do as properly portraying emotion and caring is rather tricky, especially with things like the negativity about losing wifi syncing surrounding you on all sides :)

Passionate users are great, but sometimes that passion can get in the way. We're the same way, so it goes both ways! I think it's human nature really.

This is why I asked for understanding in this thread. Try to see it from our sides and I think a lot of the negativity can be removed then we can get down to real discussion and that's the kind of thing that we can all agree will help us solve problems. This of course has to come from our side too.

I know it's not easy for software product developers to reliably predict delivery dates (like AGKyle says in one of his posts), but the above statement is something Agilebits has said for the last two years - since about August/September 2011 or so (check the history yourself). Maybe 4 is just a number, but it seems like in 2011 they hadn't really thought about what 4 would be made of and how different it would be from 3. It has been on many discount sales with this statement for a long time now (not that discount sales are bad, but if you have them more than a few times you would piss off those who bought it at full price).



It's not due to lack of talent, it's strictly related to network configurations. There are just so many things that can get misconfigured or aren't setup properly by default in some routers. You would think this would be a solved problem by 2013, but sadly, it's not :(

If it worked as well as many users like yourself say it did, across all of our users, it never would've been removed. This is hard for a lot of users to see... a lot of our support takes place privately (we often need information that could be considered private and somewhat sensitive for troubleshooting) so many users never see the struggles we go through for supporting some of the features we've removed, such as wifi syncing.

I know it's hard to take people's word for it when you can't see for yourself, but as one of the people who struggled daily with users during the process of troubleshooting wifi syncing I do want to try to say that it was just awfully difficult.

It's just not reasonable for us to have to do a screen share, learn every router and try to configure it properly for every user. I did it with a few users and each instance took an hour+ of my time, I think we can all understand the math on this.

Keep in mind that doing the screen share option meant restarting routers and thus losing the connection and then having to re-share and test and repeat until things worked.


This is one of the arrogant ways some support staff answer there. Again, AGKyle mentioned in a post here that different WiFi configurations made it difficult (and maybe took a lot of their time and effort) to troubleshoot and provide solutions. I don't really know what's so difficult about making it work within a wireless LAN configuration, but I'll admit that even Dropbox's LAN sync fails many a times for no apparent reason and it starts syncing from the Dropbox servers. So there's either some merit to what AGKyle says or both Agile Bits and Dropbox could not really hire the best talent (the latter is a bit difficult to believe for Dropbox). :D Yet, applications like Dropbox or SpiderOak still have WiFi sync (or LAN sync, as they call it) and did not remove it like Agilebits did.

Agilebits could have made it an optional thing saying that it's not very reliable and that people who wanted to try it could do so by explicitly selecting it from a hidden option or advanced option in preferences (default being disabled). Over a period of time, this could have also helped stabilize the solution for most (or all) configurations if Agilebits pushed forward. I understand that there is no easy solution that would make everyone (including Agilebits) happy, but to me it seems like Agilebits just gave up a little too soon.



Keep in mind that even half working LAN sync with applications like you mention is better than none. If it doesn't work, it can always fall back on downloading from their servers. We don't have that, when our wifi sync failed it failed completely and no syncing occurs.

I don't think it's entirely arrogance here, it can certainly come across that way. But sometimes we have to be a little more stern.

As for giving up a little too soon, that's a tough call I think. Again, one of those outside looking in situations, where on the inside it isn't so easy :)

To include wifi syncing in version 4 would've meant writing it all from scratch (for both iOS and Mac). The code from version 3 couldn't be easily moved to version 4. Plus, version 4 contains data that version 3 cannot handle or understand. It's just hard. As you point out below, version 4 has been a long time coming, can you imagine more delays because of including another difficult feature? At some point you have to ship or you never do.

A lot of developers will say "yea, no way we're ever rewriting this application, the time it took for us to get to this point is just too great and rewriting isn't feasible." We actually rewrote 1Password 4 from scratch on both Mac and iOS. The fact that we did it is a testament to how much we care about the application and our users. This isn't an excuse just a reality that not a lot of people are aware of.

When Agilebits staff members say that WiFi sync is gone forever, don't take their word for it. There is precedent that they will change their minds if enough people post/protest and make them see what's important for customers. When Agilebits released the MAS version of 1Password, it said that it would be MAS exclusive (similar to Pixelmator) and that there would never ever be a Mac version of it sold on their store again (the staff cited lame excuses that didn't make sense to many customers). Though they kept firm on this decision for sometime, they did have to change course later. So if it's really important, let them know and vote with your wallets. Also, don't stop with just posting on the Agilebits support site - discussions there can be made private (and sometimes are). Additionaly, post elsewhere on the web to keep the pressure up.



Exactly true. We never say never. If something matters enough to our users we'll always consider it.

That said, I'm not sure wifi syncing is the answer here. Not sure USB Syncing is the answer either. But that's where clear and level heads can come together and find the right solution.


I'll finish by saying that AGKyle is one of the more helpful and friendlier people in Agilebits. We can only hope he can influence the others there to make things better for the users. I use 1Password frequently, and it's frustrating to see the decisions Agilebits has taken.

Thanks for this. Sometimes this is a thankless job and I can appreciate constructive feedback when there's politeness involved :)

AGKyle
Aug 9, 2013, 11:16 AM
Same here. I can't run my business without those too.

I appreciate the security of sand boxing, but it's very limiting when it comes to functionality.

Sandboxing has potential to be great. But, in the infancy stages it makes things difficult. My hope is that after it matures it'll make things better for everyone. The problem of course is that it's a chicken and egg problem. At some point Apple had to flip the switch or it would never be used, and by flipping the switch (at least on the Mac) there are more people using it and those problems/limitations get discovered and hopefully fixed/improved.

On iOS, it's definitely a security thing, but as Apple has shown with new multi-tasking improvements in iOS 7 that it's all still in flux and has potential to change... here's for hoping iOS improves further in future versions.

There's a positive to everything if you look for them :)

arkmannj
Aug 9, 2013, 12:37 PM
So I went and pulled the trigger and purchased 1P4 for iOS. Can someone help me undertand how to accomplish a particular task that was quite easy in 1P3?

In 1P3 I would set my app to open with a quick unlock code, but then have specific items set to also require the master password. this worked quite well for my uses. both to quickly access "less sensitive" items, and sort of requiring an extra layer of security for "more secure" items. win-win.

but it now seems that when I enable the quick unlock in 1P4 those items will all open up. I either have to allow everything to open with a single passcode, be it the master code or the quick code.

this is a pretty big omission in 1P4 in my view, or am I just not understanding how to force specific items to require the master password again?



AGKyle

AGKyle
Aug 9, 2013, 12:54 PM
1Password 3 had effective two encryption keys:

SL3 = Your PIN (a 4 digit code)
SL5 = Your Master Password

Back when we designed this it was fine, but as technology has improved the 4 digit pin is just not secure enough. Many users were encrypting all of their data with just the 4 digit pin and not the master password. Thus, leaving their data not as secure as it should be. This we felt was our fault for designing it this way.

Also, it was awfully confusing because the iOS app could have also had a different master password than the Desktop app, thus making the user forget their master password on the iPhone because they never used it.

So, 1Password 4 only uses your master password. However, the "Quick Unlock" feature is useful for having quick access in a short period of time after you've unlocked with the master password. The quick unlock code doesn't involve any encryption, it merely provides a "lock" screen which requires the unlock. Typing in your pin wrong forces the next attempt to be a master password unlock.

If the app is quit for any reason (multi-tasking limit, iOS says it needs that memory, etc) then you're also forced to enter your master password in the next time.

Quick Unlock in version 4 is not the PIN unlock in version 3. It's a bit of a middle ground. You can see how to reconfigure the security settings to your liking here, from this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_YEJZdFv7Y

It takes some getting used to, but I feel a lot better knowing my data is always protected by my master password. I have the Quick Unlock in use for up to 2 minutes or so after I leave the app, that way if I need to go copy/paste I can quickly unlock but that's my particular use case for it.

So I went and pulled the trigger and purchased 1P4 for iOS. Can someone help me undertand how to accomplish a particular task that was quite easy in 1P3?

In 1P3 I would set my app to open with a quick unlock code, but then have specific items set to also require the master password. this worked quite well for my uses. both to quickly access "less sensitive" items, and sort of requiring an extra layer of security for "more secure" items. win-win.

but it now seems that when I enable the quick unlock in 1P4 those items will all open up. I either have to allow everything to open with a single passcode, be it the master code or the quick code.

this is a pretty big omission in 1P4 in my view, or am I just not understanding how to force specific items to require the master password again?

Razeus
Aug 9, 2013, 01:20 PM
Ok AGKyle,

What's with the Android app?

AGKyle
Aug 9, 2013, 01:26 PM
Ok AGKyle,

What's with the Android app?

I talked about it a bit in a previous reply. We're working on a full version. It's a lot of work and it's taking us longer than our users would like but we'd rather get it right than get it wrong.

See a preview here:

http://blog.agilebits.com/2013/07/14/1password-new-android-screenshots/

We get asked all the time where the Android app is, but, until we have something to show we just keep tight.

Our standard answer is: We'll tell you more when we can.

That link above was one of those situations :)

We're a small team, so, things take time, we understand people want it now, but rushing things is a bad idea.

heutusops
Aug 9, 2013, 04:18 PM
thank god i came here, time for an upgrade....:D i hate remembering passwords for so many accounts, i have 7 accounts on different websites which i access regularly, password manager is what i need.:cool:

jmille44
Aug 9, 2013, 04:45 PM
Iphone sync does not work with version 4. I find myself having to use version 3 on my iphone to sync to my mac via USB. I used to sync via wifi and that worked great in 3. Now version 4 for iphone has no way to sync to my Mac. Agile, this sucks. Why does this crap program cost me money when it can't be used to sync? I can't wait to get away from this crap, version on my ipad, mac and iphone don't talk to each other. I run my own server and why can't they all sync to my server via VPN or something simple. Dropbox is for people that don't care about security, so why would a security app like 1password be giving up all your passwords to the govprismbs?

Anyone have a suggestion for another program you buy once and it works on your Mac, iPhone and iPad with a real sync solution? I'd like this other program to be able to import my 1password crap if that's possible. Help me leave this prison.

jonnysods
Aug 9, 2013, 04:55 PM
Sandboxing has potential to be great. But, in the infancy stages it makes things difficult. My hope is that after it matures it'll make things better for everyone. The problem of course is that it's a chicken and egg problem. At some point Apple had to flip the switch or it would never be used, and by flipping the switch (at least on the Mac) there are more people using it and those problems/limitations get discovered and hopefully fixed/improved.

On iOS, it's definitely a security thing, but as Apple has shown with new multi-tasking improvements in iOS 7 that it's all still in flux and has potential to change... here's for hoping iOS improves further in future versions.

There's a positive to everything if you look for them :)

Couldn't agree with you more, I think in Apple's case they chose to be safe rather than sorry, and there are lots of good outcomes to that. But my goodness 1Password if it was integrated into Safari in iOS would be magical.

opq
Aug 9, 2013, 08:01 PM
The excuse for removing Wi-Fi sync is always about everyone's configs. How is Apple's Wi-Fi sync relatively reliable and doable? And why are all of my friends not having any problems with the 1Password 3 wifi sync?

unplugme71
Aug 11, 2013, 10:38 AM
Understood. I'll make sure to mention this to our developers and CEO to see if we can take another look at it in the future. No promises but this is a feature I'd like to see myself. I have a Mac Mini colo'ed and it would be nice to be able to just host it myself.

I'm on your side here, same for the rest of the people in this thread. I hope I'm making that clear. My job is to take the reports from the users, and then take them to the developers.. (does this sound too office space to everyone? :)


Well hopefully it can be implemented soon so I can go back to using it on my Mac, iPad, and work PC. :D

yusukeaoki
Aug 11, 2013, 11:08 AM
From the thread title, I thought it was going to be 10 dollars lol

AGKyle
Aug 12, 2013, 01:20 PM
From the thread title, I thought it was going to be 10 dollars lol

It's $7.99, less than $10. It's $10 off.

Normal price is $17.99.

Oletros
Aug 13, 2013, 02:54 AM
We can't really discuss things that weren't in the keynote, but here's a list of things we feel differentiate us.

* We work on Mac, Windows, iOS, Android and Windows Phone.

The last time the Android app was updated was on January 2012, it says a lot about the Android support

AGKyle
Aug 13, 2013, 08:53 AM
The last time the Android app was updated was on January 2012, it says a lot about the Android support

I mentioned the Android app a few times in this thread already, but we are working on a full Android application. It's taking time to finish but we hope that in the end our users will like it.

You can see a preview here: http://blog.agilebits.com/2013/07/14/1password-new-android-screenshots/

We understand that some users are frustrated by the time it has taken to get it released. We get it. Try to remain a little positive though :)

postman1
Aug 14, 2013, 04:21 PM
WiFi sync if done right is a lot better in the long run for AgileBits than tying yourself to whims of DropBox and iCloud. Dropbox has already bitten you once. What will happen when they do away with free accounts? Because they surely will, and it won't be long. Now YOUR users will have to pay 20USD for the iPhone version, 40USD for the mac version, and 5USD per month for a Dropbox account? Many of them will have to pay that for JUST YOUR APP. I know many people that have moved away from Agile now, simply because the writing is on the wall and now (ver 3 to 4) is the time cut and run.

I imagine there are more people that want Wi-fi sync than there are Android customers for your application. And yet you disparage those wanting WiFi sync, claiming we are just loud and noisy and few in number. Have you done a survey? Or is it just the gut feeling of your small team again? The reality is Android is a lot easier to implement than Wi-fi sync. I imagine Wi-Fi sync died because you don't have the expertise in-house to do it. My guess is the original developer of the Wi-Fi sync quit and you no longer have the talent to implement it. Or it was outsourced originally.

I mentioned the Android app a few times in this thread already, but we are working on a full Android application. It's taking time to finish but we hope that in the end our users will like it.

You can see a preview here: http://blog.agilebits.com/2013/07/14/1password-new-android-screenshots/

We understand that some users are frustrated by the time it has taken to get it released. We get it. Try to remain a little positive though :)