PDA

View Full Version : 14% of Households Use Streaming Media Devices, Roku More Popular Than Apple TV




MacRumors
Aug 14, 2013, 05:37 PM
http://images.macrumors.com/im/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2013/08/14/14-of-households-use-streaming-media-devices-roku-more-popular-than-apple-tv/)


http://images.macrumors.com/article-new/2012/06/appletv.jpgStreaming media device use has doubled since 2011, with 14% of U.S. broadband households using products like the Apple TV or the Roku in 2013, reports Parks Associates (http://www.parksassociates.com/blog/article/pr-aug2013-connected-tv) (via CNET (http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-57598506-93/roku-hotter-than-apple-tv-report-says/)).

While the Apple TV has increased in popularity (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/01/26/apple-tv-surpasses-ipad-in-netflix-streaming-popularity/) over the last several years, it falls short of competing product Roku. A survey of 10,000 U.S. broadband households revealed that 37% used a Roku device while 24% used an Apple TV, making Roku the most used streaming set-top box in the U.S.

Parks Associates predicts that worldwide connected TV device sales will double to reach 330 million annually by 2017, with annual sales revenue increasing almost 100%."Innovations such as next-gen game consoles and 4K or ultra-HD TVs will boost unit sales for these devices, but overall, consumers are reluctant to replace these big-ticket items solely for smart upgrades," said Barbara Kraus, director, research, Parks Associates. "As a result, streaming video media devices will have a thriving market because they can offer innovations such as streaming video at low prices. Devices such as Roku's streaming players and Google's Chromecast will benefit from these market conditions."Despite the fact that Apple has long referred to the Apple TV as a "hobby project," the company has been working on beefing up its content offerings in recent months, most recently debuting new channels (http://www.macrumors.com/2013/06/19/apple-adds-watchespn-hbo-go-sky-news-and-more-to-apple-tv/) for HBO GO, WatchESPN, and more. Apple is also said to have upcoming deals in the works with Time Warner Cable (http://www.macrumors.com/2013/07/02/apple-close-to-completing-apple-tv-deal-with-time-warner-cable/) and music video company VEVO (http://www.macrumors.com/2013/08/08/vevo-working-on-apple-tv-app-for-247-music-video-channel/).

Article Link: 14% of Households Use Streaming Media Devices, Roku More Popular Than Apple TV (http://www.macrumors.com/2013/08/14/14-of-households-use-streaming-media-devices-roku-more-popular-than-apple-tv/)



GSPice
Aug 14, 2013, 05:45 PM
I could see Roku being more popular simply because it doesn't "seem" to be dependent upon other hardware/software products, i.e. iTunes, Apple media libraries, etc.

cdmoore74
Aug 14, 2013, 05:46 PM
And chronecast is off to a big start. I ordered a day after and still haven't received it.

SJism23
Aug 14, 2013, 05:48 PM
The ATV has many problems, in my opinion: the remote, although sleek, is too small and has a limited number of buttons (there isn't even a sleep or power button!), which themselves are hard to press and make scrolling through lists a chore; connection problems between iDevices using Airplay are abound; limited content options if you're not in the States; and the ATV reeks of unused potential (App Store for games or channels, anyone?).

I'm surprised that the Apple TV has taken off as it has.

Earendil
Aug 14, 2013, 05:50 PM
From the report:
"37% primarily use a Roku compared to 24% that primarily use an Apple TV."

That's 39% that they don't tell us what they are using. Since there isn't a huge "other" market here in the US, exactly what is making up the other 39%, but isn't making up enough to be worth noting in their report? 3 vendors equally splitting that would have 13% each. I imagine XBox is up there, but this report was done prior to the Chrome dongle. Any other ideas?

theheadguy
Aug 14, 2013, 05:51 PM
I could see Roku being more popular simply because it doesn't "seem" to be dependent upon other hardware/software products, i.e. iTunes, Apple media libraries, etc.
Owning both, I can tell you AppleTV's lack of Amazon Video is what causes mine to collect dust.

Baumi
Aug 14, 2013, 05:53 PM
Image (http://www.macrumors.com/2013/08/14/14-of-households-use-streaming-media-devices-roku-more-popular-than-apple-tv/)

Streaming media device use has doubled since 2011, with 14% of U.S. broadband households using products like the Apple TV or the Roku in 2013
[...]
A survey of 10,000 U.S. broadband households revealed that 37% used a Roku device while 24% used an Apple TV, making Roku the most used streaming set-top box in the U.S.

Before anyone else wonders about the math like I did at first: According to the report it's 14% of all broadband users vs. 37% and 24% of those who own a streaming media device, i.e. the aforementioned 14%.

So that means that roughly 3.36% of all US broadband households own an Apple TV, while 5.18% own a Roku device. (There's probably some overlap there with people owning both.)

UnfetteredMind
Aug 14, 2013, 05:54 PM
And chronecast is off to a big start. I ordered a day after and still haven't received it.

Will be interesting to see how it does. Rokus start at $50 so the Chromecast is not that much cheaper.

Link to Park Associates blog post about the report (I'm not paying $3200 for the actual report): http://www.parksassociates.com/blog/article/pr-aug2013-connected-tv

iLilana
Aug 14, 2013, 05:54 PM
I know absolutely no one with a roku. I think my brother bought an LG appletv look-a-like but he never uses it

UnfetteredMind
Aug 14, 2013, 05:56 PM
From the report:
"37% primarily use a Roku compared to 24% that primarily use an Apple TV."

That's 39% that they don't tell us what they are using. Since there isn't a huge "other" market here in the US, exactly what is making up the other 39%, but isn't making up enough to be worth noting in their report? 3 vendors equally splitting that would have 13% each. I imagine XBox is up there, but this report was done prior to the Chrome dongle. Any other ideas?

Perhaps Blu-Ray players that allow streaming, smart TVs ... the ill-fated Logitech/Google TV device?

jm001
Aug 14, 2013, 05:58 PM
Did this report even include PS3's and XBox360 owners using PS3 Media Server? I would think those would be popular as well.

rmwebs
Aug 14, 2013, 05:59 PM
I could see Roku being more popular simply because it doesn't "seem" to be dependent upon other hardware/software products, i.e. iTunes, Apple media libraries, etc.

and the fact that outside the US, the Apple TV is essentially just an Airplay server and iTunes download device unless you root it.

The built in functionality we get out of it in the UK is crap. A 30 RaspberryPi with XBMC has better functionality - that shouldn't be the case.

noisycats
Aug 14, 2013, 06:01 PM
Owning both, I can tell you AppleTV's lack of Amazon Video is what causes mine to collect dust.

I have one of each.

I prefer the aTV the most ... I use the Roku the most.

reden
Aug 14, 2013, 06:02 PM
I have both 1 Roku, and and 2 Apple TVs. I wish I had 3 Rokus instead. Plex alone is such an amazing application worth buying the Roku for. Thanks to Apple's closed environment they're leaving themselves behind not allowing people to build Apps for the ATV. Apple's belief in not building cross platform is also a self-stabber.

It's probably never going to happen, but if they built apps for Android, they would open the door, allowing other mobile devices to control their hardware. I don't have an iPhone anymore, and I can't control my Apple TV, unless I buy some hacked app to talk to it or use the Apple TV's crappy remote, and there's no way I'm typing with it. Roku however, built apps for multiple platforms to control it's device.

iSayuSay
Aug 14, 2013, 06:07 PM
For $99, Apple TV functionality is so darn lacking.

No USB to plug your external hard drive/thumbdrive so I could download and save my iTunes content
Tiny oversimplified remote control. Johnny Ive style indeed
Too much dependency on network content (local or internet). You're not connected, then your Apple TV is a POS collecting dust
The strongest attribute is Airplay, but it only does 720p video mirroring.. WTF?

So few you get for $99

starbird
Aug 14, 2013, 06:11 PM
Meanwhile.,.

http://m.imore.com/apple-tv-accounts-56-percent-streaming-boxes-sold-last-year

tbrand7
Aug 14, 2013, 06:11 PM
[QUOTE=MacRumors;17734864]Image (http://www.macrumors.com/2013/08/14/14-of-households-use-streaming-media-devices-roku-more-popular-than-apple-tv/)


Image (http://cdn.macrumors.com/article-new/2012/06/appletv.jpg)Streaming media device use has doubled since 2011, with 14% of U.S. broadband households using products like the Apple TV or the Roku in 2013, reports Parks Associates (http://www.parksassociates.com/blog/article/pr-aug2013-connected-tv) (via CNET (http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-57598506-93/roku-hotter-than-apple-tv-report-says/)).

While the Apple TV has increased in popularity (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/01/26/apple-tv-surpasses-ipad-in-netflix-streaming-popularity/) over the last several years, it falls short of competing product Roku. A survey of 10,000 U.S. broadband households revealed that 37% used a Roku device while 24% used an Apple TV, making Roku the most used streaming set-top box in the U.S.

So, because 10,000 households have roku over Apple TV... that makes Roku the most used streaming box in the US?! Last time I checked, there's a lot more than 10,000 households in the the US. You should do a larger survey before you announce Roku as the winner.

TsMkLg068426
Aug 14, 2013, 06:13 PM
If they only added Amazon Prime to Apple TV it would sell even more than Roku.

Carlanga
Aug 14, 2013, 06:18 PM
as long as the new apps keep being cable subs apps then demand won't increase.

Anyways, only a 10K sample size, lmao what a joke of a survey and article. What's worse is that MR put it up as front page sidebar news.

----------

Will be interesting to see how it does. Rokus start at $50 so the Chromecast is not that much cheaper.

Link to Park Associates blog post about the report (I'm not paying $3200 for the actual report): http://www.parksassociates.com/blog/article/pr-aug2013-connected-tv

It's a stupid site, 10K sample size and they are telling you there are 330million connected TV worldwide by their own prediction, sometimes people listen and pay for stupid 'research'

itsthenewdc
Aug 14, 2013, 06:19 PM
Roku may be more popular share wise, but who wins in the revenue department? It's like the comparison between Android and iOS. Apple doesn't want to have huge marketshare and no revenue. That's always been their thing.

Che Castro
Aug 14, 2013, 06:19 PM
Meanwhile.,.

http://m.imore.com/apple-tv-accounts-56-percent-streaming-boxes-sold-last-year

Yea wasn't this reported here too

coalchamber1022
Aug 14, 2013, 06:26 PM
Only reason I use my roku over apple tv is because of the amazon access

VanillaCracker
Aug 14, 2013, 06:31 PM
as long as the new apps keep being cable subs apps then demand won't increase.

Anyways, only a 10K sample size, lmao what a joke of a survey and article. What's worse is that MR put it up as front page sidebar news.

----------



It's a stupid site, 10K sample size and they are telling you there are 330million connected TV worldwide by their own prediction, sometimes people listen and pay for stupid 'research'

You're kidding me right? Does anyone even know anything about statistics? A 10k sample is more than enough to represent something like this in statistical value. You get a smaller sample for more precise things like politics, and they even consider that to be a good size. 10k doesn't need to be 330 million if it accurately represents the demographic. That's the whole point of statistics.

Stop trying to bad mouth the results, because if you and other people haven't realized, Roku is actually a better product. Many people want to like the ATV more, but they don't. I'm sure in a few years apple will actually take the time to develop the product. But until then it is going to have to settle for second place. And we'll see where Google's Chromecast comes into play in a few months

Mickey6Pack
Aug 14, 2013, 06:34 PM
Survey basis seems to be a little off. To date Roku has sold approximately 5 million units, while AppleTV has sold over 13 million units.... A survey is only as good as it's population but the raw number's seem to show some holes in this one. Every AppleTV owner I know (and it's a good number) use theirs for streaming. I also own both, and like others use the Roku for Amazon, but prefer Apple's interface and easy of use, and use the AppleTV for the vast majority of my streaming usage.

jicon
Aug 14, 2013, 06:42 PM
I had one of the original AppleTVs, as soon as they were available, but lacking video content at that time made it a bit frustrating. Nice to stream or play music, but that was about it. Ended up hacking it to use Boxee that opened it up a bit, but definitely was underpowered for 720p content. Ended up programming a Harmony remote so I didn't have to use the small Apple remote.

Got a Boxee Box a few years back, and that has worked great. Got a USB IR dongle so I could use Harmony again, but with Boxee going way of the dodo, looking to switch to a decent Plex player.

Because PS3 doesn't have a great interface with Plex, and can't do the 5.1 audio, I'm looking to go way of Roku soon.

DesterWallaboo
Aug 14, 2013, 06:43 PM
The ATV has many problems, in my opinion: the remote, although sleek, is too small and has a limited number of buttons (there isn't even a sleep or power button!)

Hold down the 'play' button for a few seconds.... voila! ATV goes to sleep.

ziggie216
Aug 14, 2013, 06:45 PM
I was debating between Roku 3 or wait for the new AppleTV (already have AppleTV 3 for the living room). Not having Amazon doesnt both me too much considering most of the movies and TV shows on there are freaking old. Roku 3 is cheaper but doesnt have AirPlay. Decisions decisions...

RaelFacio
Aug 14, 2013, 06:48 PM
I wanted the Apple TV, but needed to be able to connect to a standard RCA (yellow, red, white) that is on most of my televisions. The only flat screen TV that we have is connected to an XBox and Wii which are used for accessing Netflix and Amazon Prime.

Within six months we will have two new game consoles. The XBox One and the PlayStation 4 which will be used for streaming and for watching DVD's which I still prefer to purchase. I just received from Amazon today The Beatles Blueray and standard DVD disks for Help, Yellow Submarine and A Hard Days Night.

There are at least 12 iTunes gift cards sitting around the house that are not being redeemed because we prefer to buy our music on CD's and movies on disk rather than download digital copies.

We did rent "Drinking Buddies" through iTunes this past weekend and watched it on an iMac.

One last tangent. Many of my family members and coworkers DVR the movies or TV shows that they are interested in watching. Recording for them outweighs streaming, renting or downloading. Most of them watch a show or movie maybe one additional time, then delete it.

Carlanga
Aug 14, 2013, 06:52 PM
You're kidding me right? Does anyone even know anything about statistics? A 10k sample is more than enough to represent something like this in statistical value. You get a smaller sample for more precise things like politics, and they even consider that to be a good size. 10k doesn't need to be 330 million if it accurately represents the demographic. That's the whole point of statistics.

Stop trying to bad mouth the results, because if you and other people haven't realized, Roku is actually a better product. Many people want to like the ATV more, but they don't. I'm sure in a few years apple will actually take the time to develop the product. But until then it is going to have to settle for second place. And we'll see where Google's Chromecast comes into play in a few months

I know statistics, step off your high horse. This doesn't represent the demographic, hell just look at overall sales of each of them and you will realize this survey was not done properly nor it makes sense. Is like going to a red state town and surveying them and the news guy tells you that the red guy is supposed to win nationwide due to the survey on that town... If they were really going to do 10K properly for a nationwide assumption statistically speaking they would have to waste a boatload of resources just to get maybe 200 or less at various places and for that they would have just made their sample size bigger and have more stat. power for a small cost since the infrastructure is what would cost more.

Roku is not the better product, nor is the aTV, they both have their deficiencies and is up to the person that buys them to decide which one to get since each one has unique features that the other doesn't have.

E.Lizardo
Aug 14, 2013, 06:58 PM
I could see Roku being more popular simply because it doesn't "seem" to be dependent upon other hardware/software products, i.e. iTunes, Apple media libraries, etc.

Why did you put the word "seem"in quotes?

richman555
Aug 14, 2013, 07:09 PM
I love my 2 Apple TVs. I have well over 100 movies and tv episodes purchased in iTunes and an MLB subscription. I use it every day.

SJism23
Aug 14, 2013, 07:28 PM
Hold down the 'play' button for a few seconds.... voila! ATV goes to sleep.

Yes, but I've noticed that it doesn't work all the time for some odd reason. Even then, holding down one of those buttons sucks with that remote.

JamesInLA
Aug 14, 2013, 07:43 PM
From the report:
"37% primarily use a Roku compared to 24% that primarily use an Apple TV."

That's 39% that they don't tell us what they are using. Since there isn't a huge "other" market here in the US, exactly what is making up the other 39%, but isn't making up enough to be worth noting in their report? 3 vendors equally splitting that would have 13% each. I imagine XBox is up there, but this report was done prior to the Chrome dongle. Any other ideas?

Plenty of options:
Tivo
Cable/satellite box
Computer - Laptop, HTPC, etc.
Playstation
XBox
Wii
Connected Blu-Ray player
Other streaming boxes (WD, Boxee, whatever)

GSPice
Aug 14, 2013, 07:44 PM
Why did you put the word "seem"in quotes?

Because although other apple hardware complements it nicely, you are able to buy and rent with an account on the atv without other hardware.

JamesInLA
Aug 14, 2013, 07:47 PM
And chronecast is off to a big start. I ordered a day after and still haven't received it.

I love how poor production and distribution is now taken as an indication of success.

"They're sold out! There's a three-week backlog! Everybody must be buying one!"

JamesInLA
Aug 14, 2013, 07:59 PM
Survey basis seems to be a little off. To date Roku has sold approximately 5 million units, while AppleTV has sold over 13 million units.... A survey is only as good as it's population but the raw number's seem to show some holes in this one. Every AppleTV owner I know (and it's a good number) use theirs for streaming. I also own both, and like others use the Roku for Amazon, but prefer Apple's interface and easy of use, and use the AppleTV for the vast majority of my streaming usage.

Apple doesn't appear to have released an actual sales total for Apple TVs, but the number you quote appears to be a consensus estimate of global sales of the device.

The 5 million figure for Roku appears to be U.S.-only, which is the population the survey is sampling.

W1LLk
Aug 14, 2013, 08:41 PM
Roku More Popular Than Apple TV

Really? I know I don't speak for everyone, and that I'm just one person... but I don't know a single person with a Roku. I know several people with Apple TVs, including myself. I even have a friend who is a die hard Android fanboy, but still prefers the AppleTV and just picked up the Chromecast.

benpatient
Aug 14, 2013, 09:30 PM
Really? I know I don't speak for everyone, and that I'm just one person... but I don't know a single person with a Roku. I know several people with Apple TVs, including myself. I even have a friend who is a die hard Android fanboy, but still prefers the AppleTV and just picked up the Chromecast.

hi, meet me.

all of the computers in our house are macs.

i have 2 rokus and a chromecast. i had an apple tv in the past. gave it away because no plex and no amazon instant and no component output.

now you know somebody who owns a roku. twice!

It's not as slick, but that doesn't really matter. A streaming device's interface has 2 jobs: get you to the media you want to stream, and get out of the way. It doesn't matter at all how shiny the screen is when you are navigating to the media. Roku 3 boots in like 15 seconds (not that it is ever turned off, so it's really more like zero seconds), opens netflix or plex or amazon in 1 second, and gets me to my queue 3-5 seconds later. Then a second or two of buffering, and i'm watching HD video on my tv. the only time i see the interface is when i pause it, and i don't care how shiny the pause icon is. It's certainly not worth the trade-offs.

Jcknows0
Aug 14, 2013, 09:39 PM
I have both 1 Roku, and and 2 Apple TVs. I wish I had 3 Rokus instead. Plex alone is such an amazing application worth buying the Roku for. Thanks to Apple's closed environment they're leaving themselves behind not allowing people to build Apps for the ATV. Apple's belief in not building cross platform is also a self-stabber.

It's probably never going to happen, but if they built apps for Android, they would open the door, allowing other mobile devices to control their hardware. I don't have an iPhone anymore, and I can't control my Apple TV, unless I buy some hacked app to talk to it or use the Apple TV's crappy remote, and there's no way I'm typing with it. Roku however, built apps for multiple platforms to control it's device.

I'm sure Apple will be allowing apps as soon as aTV is a full set top box or all in one 4k TV. I totally agree about Plex selling the Roku but for BluRay movie streaming I AirPlay my macmini screen for optimal quality. I think Apple is going to revolutionize the whole market as part of Steve's final declaration. I don't know if this is the year but it definitely seems like a 4Q game changer just in time before the TV market changes next year

Amazing Iceman
Aug 14, 2013, 09:46 PM
Hold down the 'play' button for a few seconds.... voila! ATV goes to sleep.

Thanks for the tip!:D

----------

I was debating between Roku 3 or wait for the new AppleTV (already have AppleTV 3 for the living room). Not having Amazon doesnt both me too much considering most of the movies and TV shows on there are freaking old. Roku 3 is cheaper but doesnt have AirPlay. Decisions decisions...

Combining my iPad with my AppleTV allows me to stream from several sources, and not be limited to what the AppleTV offers.
I really love my AppleTV, soon will get another one.

----------

Yes, but I've noticed that it doesn't work all the time for some odd reason. Even then, holding down one of those buttons sucks with that remote.

You are holding it wrong

SAdProZ
Aug 14, 2013, 09:48 PM
Yes, but I've noticed that it doesn't work all the time for some odd reason. Even then, holding down one of those buttons sucks with that remote.

To put your ATV to sleep go to the main menu, THEN hold down the play button for 2-3 seconds. I do this every day, multiple times a day. It works.

Also, to jump straight to the menu, hold the menu button for 2-3 seconds, then select Main Menu. You may need to enable that feature in Accessibility (settings).

So now, to put your ATV to sleep from anywhere you hold Menu for 2 seconds, go to Menu, then hold Play for 2 seconds.

It's much simpler than reading it would seem, I assure you.

xVeinx
Aug 14, 2013, 10:15 PM
I've been pretty happy with my ATV. My roommate and I can watch any of the movies/TV episodes on my iMac, and have easy enough access to Netflix and YouTube. We have had intermittent issues with connections to our iPhones which we sometimes use to control the ATV, but those have gone away for the most part after subsequent updates.

zephonic
Aug 14, 2013, 10:25 PM
I'm on the verge of rushing out to BestBuy and get either a Roku 2XD or AppleTV.
I like the Roku better, but I primarily want one so I can use our TV as an extra screen for my '13 MacBookAir. Can it do that?

We already do Netflix and Amazon instant view on the Wii, so that is not as critical, even though the Wii does not do HD.

charlituna
Aug 14, 2013, 10:46 PM
A survey of 10,000 U.S. broadband households

That is embarrassing. That low a number is likely totally unsound

HVDynamo
Aug 15, 2013, 12:28 AM
I'm on the verge of rushing out to BestBuy and get either a Roku 2XD or AppleTV.
I like the Roku better, but I primarily want one so I can use our TV as an extra screen for my '13 MacBookAir. Can it do that?


I think it only supports mirroring of the display right now, but they are adding the feature to use it as a separate monitor in Mavericks. I am looking forward to this feature as well.

iMikeT
Aug 15, 2013, 12:36 AM
My TV collects dust simply because I'm never in my living room. If I had an TV in my bedroom or home office I'd use it all the time.

Macist
Aug 15, 2013, 01:45 AM
Apple TV 3 is the most anaemic product, especially outside the US where important TV services are just missing. Without an App Store and no jailbreak it's useless.

Apple TV 2 was great as you could install XBMC to make it useful.

I use a Raspberry Pi with XBMC, though as not everything in the XBMC universe runs on it may build a small PC or get more powerful ARM board soon. Even as is it wipes the floor with Apple TV 3.

r3m1
Aug 15, 2013, 02:13 AM
Apple TV 3 is the most anaemic product, especially outside the US where important TV services are just missing. Without an App Store and no jailbreak it's useless.

Apple TV 2 was great as you could install XBMC to make it useful.

I use a Raspberry Pi with XBMC, though as not everything in the XBMC universe runs on it may build a small PC or get more powerful ARM board soon. Even as is it wipes the floor with Apple TV 3.

XBMC is sweet -and luckily more options are presenting itself to run it - I get the feeling a lot of "old" PS3 will be rebuild to XBMC machines - just like what happend with the XBOX1.

JamesInLA
Aug 15, 2013, 02:34 AM
That is embarrassing. That low a number is likely totally unsound

You're kidding, right? A national random sample of 10,000 gives you a margin of error of about +/- 1%, at the 95% confidence level (as is typically reported for national election polls, for example).

A sample one-fourth that size would give you a margin of error of about 2%.

It's plenty big enough.

macs4nw
Aug 15, 2013, 04:00 AM
.....A survey of 10,000 U.S. broadband households revealed that 37% used a Roku device while 24% used an Apple TV, making Roku the most used streaming set-top box in the U.S.

So, because 10,000 households have roku over Apple TV... that makes Roku the most used streaming box in the US?! Last time I checked, there's a lot more than 10,000 households in the the US. You should do a larger survey before you announce Roku as the winner.

Statistically speaking, that is a fairly significant sample.

helicoil
Aug 15, 2013, 04:20 AM
Anyways, only a 10K sample size, lmao what a joke of a survey and article.

Christ mate, don't start looking at sample bases for political poles or I guarantee you will deficate in your tidy whities.

maxosx
Aug 15, 2013, 04:24 AM
Statistically speaking, that is a fairly significant sample.

While you're correct, it's important to remember that Apple followers are unwilling to accept anything other than iTruths approved by Apple. :D

macs4nw
Aug 15, 2013, 04:46 AM
While you're correct, it's important to remember that Apple followers are unwilling to accept anything other than iTruths approved by Apple. :D

Yeah, I should have thought of that..... :rolleyes:

iapplelove
Aug 15, 2013, 04:56 AM
I know far more people who own Apple TV

JoEw
Aug 15, 2013, 04:59 AM
The only reason Apple TV is great is the ability to mirror my mac or iphone. Probably the most useful thing I have ever had for a tv.

Apple really needs to open the app store to it, it could sell so many more.


However, I am pretty sure Apple has some great game changer behind the scenes which is why they have yet to do so ;)

maxosx
Aug 15, 2013, 05:05 AM
The only reason Apple TV is great is the ability to mirror my mac or iphone. Probably the most useful thing I have ever had for a tv.

Apple really needs to open the app store to it, it could sell so many more.


However, I am pretty sure Apple has some great game changer behind the scenes which is why they have yet to do so ;)

The question that comes to mind whenever the ATV comes up in conversation, what is so great that Apple continues to wait and wait and...

It must be vaporware if we haven't seen it by now. DOA also comes to mind.

Macist
Aug 15, 2013, 05:59 AM
The question that comes to mind whenever the ATV comes up in conversation, what is so great that Apple continues to wait and wait and...

It must be vaporware if we haven't seen it by now. DOA also comes to mind.

I was the idiot that thought I could jailbreak it. Then thought the jailbreak would come soon. It didn't. I thought with an App store it will have all the iPlayers, 4oDs, Lovefilms, etc. so kept the useless thing. That never happened.

I wasn't that interested in streaming stuff from iTunes to it.

It streamed grainy YouTube cartoons for the kids. I could see no other use for it.

Any junky eBay Android ATV clone is better. Roku is better. The most rubbish smart TVs are better. Anything running XBMC is (100s of times) better.

dragje
Aug 15, 2013, 07:39 AM
Roku may be more popular share wise, but who wins in the revenue department? It's like the comparison between Android and iOS. Apple doesn't want to have huge marketshare and no revenue. That's always been their thing.

And that's simply not true. They continue to state this now while loosing market share. Market share is so much more then actual amount of devices running iOS on it, it makes investors to believe things are heading in a good way. And if the market shares continues to decline then Apple is not happy with that, not any other company would be happy about that to be precise.

I'm not naive, the market works in the same way for Apple as it does for any other branch.

----------

I use Apple TV a lot! And even more over the past few months. There are so many apps here in Holland like "Uitzending Gemist" which stores all of the programs on television for a few days which you can visit and look again. Using airplay to stream those programs to my television or my beamer, it works great!

More often I'm using Plex on my iPad, just browsing to the series or movies I've got and with a press on a button I can airplay stream it straight to my television set or beamer. Works like a charm.

I also use Apple TV for presentations when I've visitors and people would like to see the holiday shots we (my girlfriend and I) made on television and/or the beamer.

Apple TV rocks, and since my TV is also high quality I don't even need a specialized Apple television if one might be sold. This works just fine.

AaronEdwards
Aug 15, 2013, 07:46 AM
I know absolutely no one with a roku. I think my brother bought an LG appletv look-a-like but he never uses it

Actually, the Apple TV 2nd and 3rd generation are WD TV Mini look-a-likes, so if the LG looks anything like the Apple TV, then it's a WD TV Mini look-a-like...

WD TV Mini (released Fall 2009):
http://cdn.idg.com.au/mim/prodid/8370/vid/0/angleid/8/resid/18

Apple TV 2nd (released September 2010):
http://bindapple.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/apple-tv-patch-stick.jpg

ZeebUK
Aug 15, 2013, 07:53 AM
I'm in the UK - and love my Apple TVs. I have one of the originals and the latest.

I got one originally when I was briefly out of work so I could watch my music videos and listen to music on the TV rather than on my iPod Touch. The day after I got it - Apple released movies! Perfect!

Now it has Netflix, Sky News, YouTube and iTunes it's almost perfect for me. Would like a little more UK based choice - iPlayer, 4OD, etc. But I find it's much more stable than Virgin Tivo or Samsung Smart TV apps. Netflix on Samsung is horrid, much prefer Apple TV as it does what I want, how I want it!

arkmannj
Aug 15, 2013, 08:17 AM
if the AspleTV 3 could have had a corefire style hack/jailbreak applied to it then I would have purchased several new AppleTV devices, instead I didn't buy any.

Dalton63841
Aug 15, 2013, 08:40 AM
Currently using PlexConnect with my AppleTV 3 to get my 4 meager requirements:

1. Plex or XBMC
2. Netflix
3. IR Remote to program to my Harmony
4. Doesn't Suck

I also own a Roku and it does what I need great as well, but it is now in the children's room.

Bare
Aug 15, 2013, 09:03 AM
Owning both, I can tell you AppleTV's lack of Amazon Video is what causes mine to collect dust.
Mine also collects dust... because it doesn't have to move to do what it does. I use my Apple TV daily to watch Netflix or whatever videos I pull up on my iPad or iPhone and want to push to my home theater. Actually just ordered a second ATV for the bedroom (will actually be putting the old one in the bedroom because it's an ATV2, so the living room gets the 1080 ATV).

Plus, with apps like AirVideo, you can push any video from your computer to your TV -- whether it's supposedly compatible or not -- by either streaming it from your computer or by converting it on the computer and keeping it stored on your iOS device.

Regarding Amazon Prime, I can put that straight on my TV using the Smart TV features. I could also do this for Netflix, but I find the quality of the ATV -- the interface, the speed, and the actual output -- makes it better than my Smart features. Plus, there's a lot of crossover of shows and movies on Netflix and Prime, so I basically never use Prime.

The Apple TV is what I dreamed of for so long having spent much of my adolesence reduced to watching all my TV shows on a tiny monitor.

----------

The ATV has many problems, in my opinion: the remote, although sleek, is too small and has a limited number of buttons (there isn't even a sleep or power button!), which themselves are hard to press and make scrolling through lists a chore
If you have an Apple TV, you probably have some sort of iOS device. Just use Apple's Remote app.


You can be anywhere within the same wifi network to use the app with the ATV, rather than having to point the actual remote at the ATV. You can use a full keyboard to type login info or search for things rather than having to scroll through a non-traditional keyboard and enter one letter at a time. You can fast forward and skip to a specific spot in the video just like you would watching a video on your iDevice rather than using the three "speeds" of scrolling like you have to on the actual remote.
I could go on. I have the Remote app on my iPhone and iPad and just use whichever is more convenient at the time. I frequently have no idea where my Apple TV remote is and could care less.

bacaramac
Aug 15, 2013, 09:56 AM
I have 3 ATV's and love them. I have nearly 500 movies (over 200 purchased on iTunes). I have Amazon Prime, but have never used their service for TV/Movies.

We use ATV mainly for Movies and Netflix. I cancelled Hulu Plus as it didn't seem to be worth it now that I have Dish. I use Harmony remotes in all three rooms so control of ATV isn't an issue for me. I sometimes use iOS app, but that is mainly in Master since ATV is mounted behind flat screen and sometimes doesn't pick up IR signal.

Hoping to see good things come from ATV as I am pretty invested, but either way it does everything I need it to now so anything new would be a bonus.

itr81
Aug 15, 2013, 10:00 AM
Apple TV needs App Store so developers can make apps for device like roku. I bought the roku for ease of use and the huge selection. If Apple could open up the Apple TV similar to roku I think more would make switch. Price did help the roku but the higher end units sale for the same price as the Apple unit.

PracticalMac
Aug 15, 2013, 10:02 AM
ATV needs to either get more service or drop in price.

Apple could sell the ATV for $29, and recoup costs from all the iTunes streaming sales. It can be a terrific loss-leader for Apple.

otisg
Aug 15, 2013, 10:27 AM
as long as the new apps keep being cable subs apps then demand won't increase.


Not necessarily true. Lots of current cable subscribers are looking for a better way to discover and access all the content they are paying for. If Apple makes a great service for this people will buy them (especially if it allows them to eliminate cable box rentals).

I'm definitely in the minority, but I actually subscribed to cable specifically for the TWC TV apps for iPad, iPhone, and Roku. I'm dying for an Apple TV version as well. Technically, they could upgrade those streams to 1080p, which would be better than cable (1080i max) and that could sell devices, too.

Technarchy
Aug 15, 2013, 10:37 AM
Story is ********.

Roku states their sales are five million.

Apple t.v. it's sitting at twelve million.

Carlanga
Aug 15, 2013, 02:05 PM
Statistically speaking, that is a fairly significant sample.

Not when the math doesn't add up at the end to unit sales nor it comes close. Just look at overall sales of both devices. There are other variables besides a sample size to make something correct.

----------

Not necessarily true. Lots of current cable subscribers are looking for a better way to discover and access all the content they are paying for. If Apple makes a great service for this people will buy them (especially if it allows them to eliminate cable box rentals).

I'm definitely in the minority, but I actually subscribed to cable specifically for the TWC TV apps for iPad, iPhone, and Roku. I'm dying for an Apple TV version as well. Technically, they could upgrade those streams to 1080p, which would be better than cable (1080i max) and that could sell devices, too.

I think you are in the minority. Why get a second box to give you the same content is what the average person will tell you.
Either way most people that buy an atv don't buy it for the cable apps.

JamesInLA
Aug 15, 2013, 03:44 PM
Story is ********.

Roku states their sales are five million.

Apple t.v. it's sitting at twelve million.

The Roku number is U.S. sales.
The Apple number is global sales (and an estimate, as Apple doesn't release AppleTV sales figures).

AaronEdwards
Aug 15, 2013, 04:11 PM
Story is ********.

Roku states their sales are five million.

Apple t.v. it's sitting at twelve million.

Depends.

If you believe that:
1. Those buying Apple TVs are more likely to upgrade to a newer model when it becomes available than those buying a Roku.
2. Those buying Apple TVs buy more of them, for example if each kid gets one, than those buying a Roku.

Then what the survey states may very well be true despite lower sales for the Roku.

A survey of 10,000 U.S. broadband households revealed that 37% used a Roku device while 24% used an Apple TV, making Roku the most used streaming set-top box in the U.S.

Note that it says percentage of households using a certain device and nothing about total number of devices used by each household.

AaronEdwards
Aug 15, 2013, 06:24 PM
Not when the math doesn't add up at the end to unit sales nor it comes close. Just look at overall sales of both devices. There are other variables besides a sample size to make something correct.

The survey is estimating which device is used in most homes, it's not estimating unit sales.

Carlanga
Aug 15, 2013, 07:26 PM
The survey is estimating which device is used in most homes, it's not estimating unit sales.

Survey is estimating which one is 'most popular' by ownership not most used.
When one does a sample survey, it's results are supposed to match closely to reality. Not in this case, which tells me the study was not done properly to cover all bases.

JoEw
Aug 15, 2013, 09:14 PM
The question that comes to mind whenever the ATV comes up in conversation, what is so great that Apple continues to wait and wait and...

It must be vaporware if we haven't seen it by now. DOA also comes to mind.

I have a feeling it is more about securing content. That is pretty much what is holding it back.

AaronEdwards
Aug 15, 2013, 09:24 PM
Survey is estimating which one is 'most popular' by ownership not most used.
When one does a sample survey, it's results are supposed to match closely to reality. Not in this case, which tells me the study was not done properly to cover all bases.

You're wrong, it's household usage, not ownership:

A survey of 10,000 U.S. broadband households revealed that 37% used a Roku device while 24% used an Apple TV, making Roku the most used streaming set-top box in the U.S.

For someone complaining a lot about the survey, you sure don't seem to have an understanding of statistics and you sure don't seem to understand what the survey was about...

maxosx
Aug 16, 2013, 12:06 AM
I have a feeling it is more about securing content. That is pretty much what is holding it back.

I have a feeling you're 100% correct :)

jettredmont
Aug 20, 2013, 05:48 PM
You're kidding me right? Does anyone even know anything about statistics? A 10k sample is more than enough to represent something like this in statistical value. You get a smaller sample for more precise things like politics, and they even consider that to be a good size. 10k doesn't need to be 330 million if it accurately represents the demographic. That's the whole point of statistics.

Stop trying to bad mouth the results, because if you and other people haven't realized, Roku is actually a better product. Many people want to like the ATV more, but they don't. I'm sure in a few years apple will actually take the time to develop the product. But until then it is going to have to settle for second place. And we'll see where Google's Chromecast comes into play in a few months

Not to nit-pick, but the relevant sample size is 1,400, because you are starting from the 14% subset of that 10,000.

According to the first Margin of Error calculator Google gave me, if we assume 100M households with broadband (that number is likely high though) a sample size of 1,400 gives +/- 2.62% with 95% confidence. So, on its face, the percentages (37% for Roku and 24% for ATV) are well outside the maximal margin of error.

More important, though, is the underlying methodology (which is not freely published). In most cases of fishy results, the results get skewed due to poor question phrasing or non-random sampling.

I've had an AppleTV for many years, and also used a Roku. The survey results certainly don't jibe with my experience except in one narrow aspect. The Roku is downright frustrating to use, slow, and fidgety. The AppleTV just works. Add to this a huge install base advantage from sales numbers for the AppleTV, and the survey results don't seem likely to be explained by relative price (there is too large of a portion which must have both).

The only rational explanation I can see here is diversity of content. AppleTV is a great device to stream my own library (since that library is already in iTunes), Hulu Plus, and Netflix. Roku rounds that out with a passable implementation of Amazon Prime streaming (I have yet to see a "good" implementation of Amazon Prime; its like Amazon doesn't know what it is doing with streaming). Apple's interface is starting to get rather cluttered with for-pay services and services tied to a cable subscription, which I think is a mistake all around. But, the same has always been true of Roku, so I don't think that is a reason for the use differences.

Which leaves me with Amazon Prime. Are there enough Amazon Prime subscribers who actually use the streaming video service to tilt the balance so far in favor of Roku?

I don't know. It just doesn't smell right. I'd need to see the underlying methodology and questions to put any trust in the results of this survey. Extraordinary claims need extraordinary evidence and all that.

----------

You're kidding, right? A national random sample of 10,000 gives you a margin of error of about +/- 1%, at the 95% confidence level (as is typically reported for national election polls, for example).

A sample one-fourth that size would give you a margin of error of about 2%.

It's plenty big enough.

Just to reiterate what I said to the previous statistician: the relevant subsample size is 1,400 broadband users who had broadband and use a media console device, if the free abstract / press release is to be believed. The MoE is 2.62%.

Still statistically valid, but if you're going to correct someone's misunderstanding of stats, don't miss the rather important subsample effect.

I should note: I am taking the "survey of 10,000" blurb in the abstract to indicate that there were 10,000 responses, not just 10k broadband users contacted. The details of the survey would be necessary to determine if there is further subsampling (random or directed) involved.

jettredmont
Aug 20, 2013, 06:05 PM
if the AspleTV 3 could have had a corefire style hack/jailbreak applied to it then I would have purchased several new AppleTV devices, instead I didn't buy any.

If you do a simple Google search for "Apple TV 3 jailbreak" you'll see dozens of links leading to 2-3 good jailbreak mechanisms specifically for the latest AppleTV.

Personally, I'm really happy with the stock AppleTV, and so I can't vouch for any of the mechanisms. But, if you want a cheap pretty-powerful little set-top computer, jailbreaking appears to be quite straightforward these days.

Sorry, after looking into this more, it seems there are top-level links saying AppleTV 3 is covered, but the mechanisms themselves only claim support for ATV 1 and 2. So, probably still not a viable option.

jettredmont
Aug 20, 2013, 06:24 PM
ATV needs to either get more service or drop in price.

Apple could sell the ATV for $29, and recoup costs from all the iTunes streaming sales. It can be a terrific loss-leader for Apple.

I think they should go the other way: offer more services, and keep the buy-in price high. This is the traditional Apple business model, and works great. It allows Apple TV to be a hub instead of yet another single-purpose device.

Cheffy Dave
Aug 20, 2013, 06:35 PM
My ATV #1 just died, only replacing it with R3

arkmannj
Aug 21, 2013, 02:05 PM
If you do a simple Google search for "Apple TV 3 jailbreak" you'll see dozens of links leading to 2-3 good jailbreak mechanisms specifically for the latest AppleTV.

Personally, I'm really happy with the stock AppleTV, and so I can't vouch for any of the mechanisms. But, if you want a cheap pretty-powerful little set-top computer, jailbreaking appears to be quite straightforward these days.

Sorry, after looking into this more, it seems there are top-level links saying AppleTV 3 is covered, but the mechanisms themselves only claim support for ATV 1 and 2. So, probably still not a viable option.

It takes a good [wo]man to admit when they are wrong. (especially on the interwebs) we can still be friends...maybe even share a pint while watching something on a Jailbroken AppleTV 4

but my portion of the Pint will need to be lemonade or something since I don't drink... but you may have whever you like :)

PracticalMac
Aug 21, 2013, 03:29 PM
I think they should go the other way: offer more services, and keep the buy-in price high. This is the traditional Apple business model, and works great. It allows Apple TV to be a hub instead of yet another single-purpose device.

That's what I said.

ATV needs to either get more service or drop in price.