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matttye
Aug 17, 2013, 07:48 AM
I've always thought of Apple as the company that's quite slow to adopt things, but the one that does things properly.

Just lately, although I love my iPhone, I've been finding that it's really irritating at certain things and they're just not well thought out at all.

SIRI being the main one. Why on earth do we need to connect to Apple's data centres to perform simple, local tasks on the phone? This results in not being able to use Siri when in a signal blackspot, or at busy times. So when I'm driving and I want to use Siri to call someone or add a reminder or something, especially when I'm out driving in some quiet back roads with patchy signal, it's easier to just pull over and do it manually.

Google has managed to add the entire Google Voice Search, which is not dissimilar to Siri, to Android and the entire thing is usable while offline. This is how it should be.

I actually find the "it just works" mantra laughable when I try and fail to use Siri to call someone about 5 times before giving up!

The second one, although not as annoying as Siri, is maps. Why can we not save entire countries or at least cache journeys prior to setting off? Surely maps is one of the OBVIOUS things that should work without a data connection. If you're out and about and lose signal, you're lost! Where is the sense in that?

I appreciate that these aren't specific to iOS 7, just iOS in general; it just made sense to post in the latest iOS forum.

Come on Apple... sort it out :(

Tankmaze
Aug 17, 2013, 09:01 AM
SIRI being the main one. Why on earth do we need to connect to Apple's data centres to perform simple, local tasks on the phone? This results in not being able to use Siri when in a signal blackspot, or at busy times. So when I'm driving and I want to use Siri to call someone or add a reminder or something, especially when I'm out driving in some quiet back roads with patchy signal, it's easier to just pull over and do it manually.

Google has managed to add the entire Google Voice Search, which is not dissimilar to Siri, to Android and the entire thing is usable while offline. This is how it should be.


Well yeah, offline siri is probably one of the feature that I really want. Probably will come out in iOS 8, apple can make like basic function to run without internet connection. That's why siri I think is still a gimmick pushed by apple marketing department.

The second one, although not as annoying as Siri, is maps. Why can we not save entire countries or at least cache journeys prior to setting off? Surely maps is one of the OBVIOUS things that should work without a data connection. If you're out and about and lose signal, you're lost! Where is the sense in that?

I appreciate that these aren't specific to iOS 7, just iOS in general; it just made sense to post in the latest iOS forum.

Come on Apple... sort it out :(

Yeah I agree, even a nokia phone from 3 years ago can download gps maps based on the region for free. But there is a workaround for this, as I use sygic for gps.
But still, apple can make downloadable offline maps when we setup the phone in the welcome screen so we dont download the maps we dont need.
So maybe a feature for iOS 8.

Paddle1
Aug 17, 2013, 09:03 AM
This is in the wrong section.

matttye
Aug 17, 2013, 09:07 AM
This is in the wrong section.

Where do you think it should be? Like I said at the end of my post, there is no general 'iOS' forum - there are simply forums for each version of iOS. It therefore makes sense to post in the latest version's forum, as these problems are still present.

SakuraSuki
Aug 17, 2013, 09:12 AM
Well yeah, offline siri is probably one of the feature that I really want. Probably will come out in iOS 8, apple can make like basic function to run without internet connection. That's why siri I think is still a gimmick pushed by apple marketing department.



Yeah I agree, even a nokia phone from 3 years ago can download gps maps based on the region for free. But there is a workaround for this, as I use sygic for gps.
But still, apple can make downloadable offline maps when we setup the phone in the welcome screen so we dont download the maps we dont need.
So maybe a feature for iOS 8.

I care less about offline Siri, since Siri isn't that useful after all. I care about offline dictation. That I hate how slow it can be from time to time. OS X gets this on Mavericks, but not on iOS.....

You can download limited size of maps using Google Maps. It isn't quite useful for foreigner travelling to other country, but certainly useful for driving around cities.

Paddle1
Aug 17, 2013, 09:12 AM
Where do you think it should be? Like I said at the end of my post, there is no general 'iOS' forum - there are simply forums for each version of iOS. It therefore makes sense to post in the latest version's forum, as these problems are still present.

This forum is specifically about a currently in development beta version, the iOS 6 forum makes more sense.

tymaster50
Aug 17, 2013, 09:14 AM
I couldn't care for offline siri or maps since I almost always have an internet connection (verizon iPhone + AT&T iPad Mini)

I don't use Siri a lot either, Since this time last month (July 17th) I have used Siri a grand total of 4 times lol

matttye
Aug 17, 2013, 09:14 AM
This forum is specifically about a currently in development beta version, the iOS 6 forum makes more sense.

The problem is still present in iOS7. Why discuss a problem on the iOS 6 forum when it's still present in a later version of the OS?

This forum isn't just for things unique to iOS 7.

nikicampos
Aug 17, 2013, 09:15 AM
Where do you think it should be? Like I said at the end of my post, there is no general 'iOS' forum - there are simply forums for each version of iOS. It therefore makes sense to post in the latest version's forum, as these problems are still present.

The general iOS forum could be consider the current official release which is iOS6.

You could also post this is Wasteland... :D Just kidding.

Paddle1
Aug 17, 2013, 09:16 AM
The problem is still present in iOS7. Why discuss a problem on the iOS 6 forum when it's still present in a later version of the OS?

This forum isn't just for things unique to iOS 7.

Because it's not an actual release yet. iOS 7 can change.

matttye
Aug 17, 2013, 09:17 AM
I couldn't care for offline siri or maps since I almost always have an internet connection (verizon iPhone + AT&T iPad Mini)

I don't use Siri a lot either, Since this time last month (July 17th) I have used Siri a grand total of 4 times lol

Having an internet connection doesn't help when Siri says "Sorry, I cannot do that right now... please try again later" because the server is down / too busy. :( That happens quite a lot to me.

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Because it's not an actual release yet. iOS 7 can change.

You could say that about everything being discussed in this forum - let's just get rid of the whole thing shall we?

:p

Paddle1
Aug 17, 2013, 09:21 AM
Having an internet connection doesn't help when Siri says "Sorry, I cannot do that right now... please try again later" because the server is down / too busy. :( That happens quite a lot to me.

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You could say that about everything being discussed in this forum - let's just get rid of the whole thing shall we?

:p

But you're talking about iOS 6 and earlier. It's not exclusive to iOS 7.

aimee.elizabeth
Aug 17, 2013, 09:30 AM
I don't use Siri ever, so it doesn't bother me.

But I agree about maps, you should be able to download maps and use them offline.

matttye
Aug 17, 2013, 09:34 AM
But you're talking about iOS 6 and earlier. It's not exclusive to iOS 7.

It's absurd to suggest that features should be discussed on the forum corresponding to the iOS version they were introduced, rather than on the latest version of the software that people are using. Especially when Siri has been (at least partially) redesigned and rewritten in iOS 7, and the things I'm discussing are still present in the latest (albeit beta) version.

In any event, does it really matter? If the mods want to move it I'm sure they will do. Can we just stick to the topic now please?

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Even if Siri works well for people with an internet connection, there is no good reason for it to require one. The only possible reason I can think of is because the servers that process the voice data use GBs and GBs of sample data and it wouldn't be practical to put it on the device.

IMO the ideal solution would be some sort of hybrid, whereby it can translate simple commands on the device itself ('dial so and so') but it has to 'phone home' to translate more complex commands ('I want to call so and so'), and it will only phone home if the built-in recognition system cannot translate what's being said into an action.

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I don't use Siri ever, so it doesn't bother me.

But I agree about maps, you should be able to download maps and use them offline.

I only use it whilst driving, but it's really annoying when it won't work as it means I have to pull over. That's not always possible, like if I'm on a motorway.

aimee.elizabeth
Aug 17, 2013, 09:38 AM
It's absurd to suggest that features should be discussed on the forum corresponding to the iOS version they were introduced, rather than on the latest version of the software that people are using. Especially when Siri has been (at least partially) redesigned and rewritten in iOS 7, and the things I'm discussing are still present in the latest (albeit beta) version.

In any event, does it really matter? If the mods want to move it I'm sure they will do. Can we just stick to the topic now please?

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Even if Siri works well for people with an internet connection, there is no good reason for it to require one. The only possible reason I can think of is because the servers that process the voice data use GBs and GBs of sample data and it wouldn't be practical to put it on the device.

IMO the ideal solution would be some sort of hybrid, whereby it can translate simple commands on the device itself ('dial so and so') but it has to 'phone home' to translate more complex commands ('I want to call so and so'), and it will only phone home if the built-in recognition system cannot translate what's being said into an action.

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I only use it whilst driving, but it's really annoying when it won't work as it means I have to pull over. That's not always possible, like if I'm on a motorway.

One way I can see the Siri requiring data problem being fixed is that Siri can actually differentiate between commands that require a connection vs. the ones that can be done locally on your phone. And yeah that would require a voice recognition system locally on your phone.

Cougarcat
Aug 17, 2013, 09:40 AM
Even if Siri works well for people with an internet connection, there is no good reason for it to require one. The only possible reason I can think of is because the servers that process the voice data use GBs and GBs of sample data and it wouldn't be practical to put it on the device.

Saving space is probably the reason. In Mavericks, there is now offline dictation but it requires a 700+ MB download. Apple should do something similar with Siri and allow you to download the data if you have the space. Or maybe they will start including it when iPhones start at 32 GB.

Zerilos
Aug 17, 2013, 09:40 AM
I totally agree about Siri. I rarely find myself without a signal, but it seems obvious that certain tasks should be available offline.

As far as Maps, I doubt Apple wanted to replicate every feature provided by the paid GPS services. They have to maintain a good relationship with App developers and stealing all of their features and providing it for free is not the way to do it. This is why their podcasting app is so inferior to the other podcast downloaders.

Paddle1
Aug 17, 2013, 09:40 AM
It's absurd to suggest that features should be discussed on the forum corresponding to the iOS version they were introduced, rather than on the latest version of the software that people are using. Especially when Siri has been (at least partially) redesigned and rewritten in iOS 7, and the things I'm discussing are still present in the latest (albeit beta) version.

In any event, does it really matter? If the mods want to move it I'm sure they will do. Can we just stick to the topic now please?



But people aren't using iOS 7 yet. Ok, now I'll stay on topic.


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Siri should be able to do offline tasks like scheduling reminders or setting alarms without internet. I don't know how you would be able to use Siri to place calls if there is no signal, but not everything that Siri does like changing the brightness should need internet. I thought they were going to add offline Siri features in iOS 7?

Cougarcat
Aug 17, 2013, 09:46 AM
I totally agree about Siri. I rarely find myself without a signal, but it seems obvious that certain tasks should be available offline.

As far as Maps, I doubt Apple wanted to replicate every feature provided by the paid GPS services. They have to maintain a good relationship with App developers and stealing all of their features and providing it for free is not the way to do it. This is why their podcasting app is so inferior to the other podcast downloaders.

I doubt this is the reason. Apple "steals" from developers all the time. There is even a term for it-- sherlocked (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=sherlocked).

matttye
Aug 17, 2013, 09:57 AM
Saving space is probably the reason. In Mavericks, there is now offline dictation but it requires a 700+ MB download. Apple should do something similar with Siri and allow you to download the data if you have the space. Or maybe they will start including it when iPhones start at 32 GB.

Totally agree they should give us the option to install something to allow it to work offline.

I totally agree about Siri. I rarely find myself without a signal, but it seems obvious that certain tasks should be available offline.

As far as Maps, I doubt Apple wanted to replicate every feature provided by the paid GPS services. They have to maintain a good relationship with App developers and stealing all of their features and providing it for free is not the way to do it. This is why their podcasting app is so inferior to the other podcast downloaders.

Even if they don't allow you to install entire countries, they could let you cache specific journeys or something.


Siri should be able to do offline tasks like scheduling reminders or setting alarms without internet. I don't know how you would be able to use Siri to place calls if there is no signal, but not everything that Siri does like changing the brightness should need internet. I thought they were going to add offline Siri features in iOS 7?

It's not only when you have no internet connection that Siri fails, it's also when the server is too busy or down.

Also, if you're only on GPRS or Edge, Siri will be quite slow to interpret your command even though you have sufficient signal to make a telephone call.

There's hidden code in iOS 7 that indicates offline dictation is being tested apparently but I don't think there's anything that points to Siri commands.

dhlizard
Aug 17, 2013, 10:11 AM
I don't use Siri a lot either, Since this time last month (July 17th) I have used Siri a grand total of 4 times lol

Agree !

In a head to head comparison, Google voice search beats Siri every time.

Siri's constant response - "Would you like me to search the Internet for that"

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...when iPhones start at 32 GB.

I agree !

So very tired of reading about people worry/complain about their phone being full and their large "other" file. :mad:

Sorry, you bought the cheapest phone available :cool:

Gogurt48
Aug 17, 2013, 10:17 AM
Because it's not an actual release yet. iOS 7 can change.

That's exactly why problems should be discussed here. Why discuss them in a forum for an OS version that can't change, and that is about to be rendered obsolete?

Zerilos
Aug 17, 2013, 10:17 AM
I doubt this is the reason. Apple "steals" from developers all the time. There is even a term for it-- sherlocked (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=sherlocked).

Every OS developer does that to some extent, but Apple's free iOS apps are never as feature rich as the better 3rd party Apps provided in the App Store to my experience. Apple could easily make Maps and Podcaster as feature heavy as the 3rd party apps, but they don't. They actually want people to purchase 3rd party Apps, which we would never do if they were offered free by Apple.

aimee.elizabeth
Aug 17, 2013, 10:19 AM
Agree !

In a head to head comparison, Google voice search beats Siri every time.

Siri's constant response - "Would you like me to search the Internet for that"

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I agree !

So very tired of reading about people worry/complain about their phone being full and their large "other" file. :mad:

Sorry, you bought the cheapest phone available :cool:

You're tired that not everyone has 400 dollars to blow on a 64gb phone? Maybe you should do a good deed and buy one for them so you don't have to hear them complain :)

Cougarcat
Aug 17, 2013, 10:24 AM
Every OS developer does that to some extent, but Apple's free iOS apps are never as feature rich as the better 3rd party Apps provided in the App Store to my experience. Apple could easily make Maps and Podcaster as feature heavy as the 3rd party apps, but they don't. They actually want people to purchase 3rd party Apps, which we would never do if they were offered free by Apple.

Sure, they want people to buy apps, but I don't think they intentionally gimp their own to do so. If their apps are feature light, it's for different reasons. One of them being, default apps are designed for a general audience, so simplicity is prioritized over feature load.

jclardy
Aug 17, 2013, 10:28 AM
Google has managed to add the entire Google Voice Search, which is not dissimilar to Siri, to Android and the entire thing is usable while offline. This is how it should be.

I don't know where you got your information from, but this is my Nexus 4 without an internet connection using voice search:

http://i.imgur.com/CgWLltb.png

Voice recognition is not an easy task, you need vast amounts of data and a lot of processing power if you want to it to work with a majority of people's voices.

Zerilos
Aug 17, 2013, 10:33 AM
Sure, they want people to buy apps, but I don't think they intentionally gimp their own to do so. If their apps are feature light, it's for different reasons. One of them being, default apps are designed for a general audience, so simplicity is prioritized over feature load.

I disagree. The features they leave out and the ease with which they could have included is often striking to my experience. GPS apps are great example and they remain a healthy source of income for Apple.

Cougarcat
Aug 17, 2013, 10:35 AM
I disagree. The features they leave out and the ease with which they could have included is often striking to my experience. GPS apps are great example and they remain a healthy source of income for Apple.

I think you are overestimating the money apple gets from developers. They make their money from hardware, not software.

Also, keep in mind turn by turn is still relatively new on the iPhone. It will gain features slowly over time. Most 1.0 Apple features are generally feature-poor.

Paddle1
Aug 17, 2013, 10:44 AM
That's exactly why problems should be discussed here. Why discuss them in a forum for an OS version that can't change, and that is about to be rendered obsolete?

iOS 6 is current, it can also change, only obsolete versions like iOS 4 are really unlikely to change.

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Saving maps would probably use up memory, and GPS wouldn't work properly with no signal.

Gogurt48
Aug 17, 2013, 10:47 AM
iOS 6 is current, it can also change, only obsolete versions like iOS 4 are really unlikely to change.

They're probably about a month away from releasing iOS 7. There is no way they're going to update iOS 6 unless they find a critical bug, which at this late stage in its life-cycle is highly unlikely.

This is the right forum to discuss changes to iOS.

matttye
Aug 17, 2013, 10:50 AM
I don't know where you got your information from, but this is my Nexus 4 without an internet connection using voice search:

Image (http://i.imgur.com/CgWLltb.png)

Voice recognition is not an easy task, you need vast amounts of data and a lot of processing power if you want to it to work with a majority of people's voices.

Hmm you're right.

The dictation works offline, at least. I thought Google Now did too but I can't get it to work either.

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and GPS wouldn't work properly with no signal.

Yes it would. Have you never had an offline sat nav? My TomTom has no means of connecting to the internet yet it navigates just fine.

GPS doesn't require data. The reason data is required is for the downloading of the maps themselves, and also for A-GPS (a means of finding a GPS satellite more quickly).

Fresh Pie
Aug 17, 2013, 12:10 PM
You guys want to know something sad? If you turn Siri off and enter airplane mode, you can sill use Voice Control.

Why doesn't Apple have Siri do it's processing locally (a la Voice Control) and push it to the servers. Whichever process finishes first, wins. That way, if you don't have a signal, you can still use some functions.

veneto
Aug 17, 2013, 01:27 PM
I turned Siri off back in 2011.

dhlizard
Aug 17, 2013, 01:27 PM
You're tired that not everyone has 400 dollars to blow on a 64gb phone? Maybe you should do a good deed and buy one for them so you don't have to hear them complain :)

Actually I buy mine for full price, no discount, no contract so it comes unlocked and I am not tied to any one carrier

Really, for an item I use repeatedly, every day for a year or perhaps more, it is a small price to pay.

I hardly see that as "blowing" money.

aimee.elizabeth
Aug 17, 2013, 01:39 PM
Actually I buy mine for full price, no discount, no contract so it comes unlocked and I am not tied to any one carrier

Really, for an item I use repeatedly, every day for a year or perhaps more, it is a small price to pay.

I hardly see that as "blowing" money.

That may be the case for you, but that being said, not everyone is as rich as you are :)

veneto
Aug 17, 2013, 01:58 PM
I buy mine full price too. I won't get strung up by those carriers.

Only Apple. :apple:

matttye
Aug 17, 2013, 03:14 PM
To everyone who turned Siri off; do you drive? If so, do you just manually dial people or is there another way of voice dialling?

SakuraSuki
Aug 17, 2013, 03:21 PM
I don't know where you got your information from, but this is my Nexus 4 without an internet connection using voice search:

Image (http://i.imgur.com/CgWLltb.png)

Voice recognition is not an easy task, you need vast amounts of data and a lot of processing power if you want to it to work with a majority of people's voices.

It need internet to pull the result, you cannot do offline search. But Android is capable of offline voice recognition.

jclardy
Aug 17, 2013, 05:01 PM
It need internet to pull the result, you cannot do offline search. But Android is capable of offline voice recognition.

Offline dictation, yeah. But you still can't use the local features of voice search, like adding calendar entries, to do lists, timers, alarms, etc.

viperGTS
Aug 17, 2013, 05:20 PM
To everyone who turned Siri off; do you drive? If so, do you just manually dial people or is there another way of voice dialling?

You can use the original "Voice Control" that was introduced with the iPhone 3GS. Basic things only however, but calling people, dialing, and playing music/playlists are some of those things. :)

veneto
Aug 17, 2013, 06:34 PM
Why is iOS 7 still slow that's all I care about. They got like 20 days left. The clock is ticking.

Voice control is more responsive actually, and I just dial manually.

Zcott
Aug 17, 2013, 06:44 PM
Not sure if it's been addressed or not but maps does support offline usage. If you visit an area in Maps and zoom right in, it'll cache that area. For visiting cities you don't know, just go and explore the area in maps before you go.

With google map I know you can type 'ok maps' or something like that and it'll cache the map for you, but with Apple Maps it's automatic.

matttye
Aug 18, 2013, 06:08 AM
Not sure if it's been addressed or not but maps does support offline usage. If you visit an area in Maps and zoom right in, it'll cache that area. For visiting cities you don't know, just go and explore the area in maps before you go.

With google map I know you can type 'ok maps' or something like that and it'll cache the map for you, but with Apple Maps it's automatic.

Good to know, thanks! I might try that out next time I go out.

Any ideas how much it lets you cache? I make a 240 mile round trip every other weekend.

Zcott
Aug 18, 2013, 06:34 AM
Good to know, thanks! I might try that out next time I go out.

Any ideas how much it lets you cache? I make a 240 mile round trip every other weekend.

I'm not sure. I tested it with a trip to Paris last year. Make sure to zoom all the way in and it'll cache that area. If you're planning on doing that for an entire 240 mile journey...good luck ;-)

matttye
Aug 18, 2013, 06:38 AM
I'm not sure. I tested it with a trip to Paris last year. Make sure to zoom all the way in and it'll cache that area. If you're planning on doing that for an entire 240 mile journey...good luck ;-)

I know the way off by heart now so I don't really need to, would just be good to know it works as I sometimes have to make other long trips I'm not so used to :p