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MacRumors
Aug 20, 2013, 10:38 AM
http://images.macrumors.com/im/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2013/08/20/tivo-introduces-roamio-dvr-that-streams-live-and-recorded-shows-to-ios-devices/)


TiVo has announced a new line (http://pr.tivo.com/press-releases/ohhh-roamio-nasdaq-tivo-1044272) of DVR models that will eventually include support for streaming of live and recorded shows to the iPhone and iPad. The new TiVo, called the Roamio, includes built-in wireless and a new TiVo Stream feature that will allow users to connect their iPhones and iPads to the Roamio remotely and stream live channels and recorded shows.

The press release from TiVo (http://pr.tivo.com/press-releases/ohhh-roamio-nasdaq-tivo-1044272) features a host of disclaimers, however -- the TiVo Stream feature is not available at launch but should be available in the next few months, streaming is "restricted to a limited number of devices owned" by the subscriber, and not all content can be streamed out of the home. Some unspecified content is restricted to mobile devices on the local network rather.

The new box also includes a new HTML5-based platform that TiVo says will allow for faster app rollouts and upgrades -- TiVo already supports apps from YouTube, Netflix, Amazon, and Hulu, among others.
http://images.macrumors.com/article-new/2013/08/roamio.jpg"While so many people love TV, they have no idea what TiVo can do for their love of TV. TiVo Roamio is so much more than just the best DVR, it's for people who are all about loving their TV -- that's why we call our latest offering Roamio," said Tom Rogers, TiVo's President and CEO. "Now, wherever you roam your TiVo Roamio is there. In the next room, in the kitchen, in a hotel room across the world -- connecting you right to your living room TV recordings, so you can get them immediately wherever you are. Moreover, you can get all your regular cable channels, the best DVR features available, all combined with favorite streaming services like Netflix, Hulu and YouTube in one box, using one remote. With up to six tuners, tons more space to record your shows so on those Sunday nights when all the great TV is on you can capture it to watch throughout the week. Take every box or device out there -- Roku, Apple TV, Slingbox, Google TV, your standard cable box -- all rolled into one. This is quite simply the best TiVo we have ever made and is truly for people who love TV."The TiVo Roamio is available in $200, $400 and $600 models (https://tivo.com/shop/roamio) with four to six tuners and up to 3TB of storage. TiVo boxes require a CableCard from a cable company or HD antenna and do not work with satellite services like DirecTV.

Article Link: TiVo Introduces 'Roamio' DVR That Streams Live and Recorded Shows to iOS Devices (http://www.macrumors.com/2013/08/20/tivo-introduces-roamio-dvr-that-streams-live-and-recorded-shows-to-ios-devices/)



gibbz
Aug 20, 2013, 10:41 AM
Why even release it if the streaming isn't working?

iMerik
Aug 20, 2013, 10:44 AM
Why even release it if the streaming isn't working?
Seems like a good reason to not early adopt. Maybe they won't even work on that feature if sales are low.

rmwebs
Aug 20, 2013, 10:46 AM
Why even release it if the streaming isn't working?

Seems like Tivo like releasing half baked crap. You only have to look at the Tivo they supplied with Virgin Media. We've got tons of stuff missing. We were promised an iPhone/iPad app that let you stream from your Tivo box. It was due out over a year ago - Virgin outsourced the dev to Tivo who've done bugger all so far.

They even disabled Tivo > Tivo streaming for us.

dstankus
Aug 20, 2013, 10:47 AM
Thanks for this. I thought TiVo went out of business years ago...

macsrcool1234
Aug 20, 2013, 10:49 AM
Eh, I used to have a TiVo but now they cost as much as a cable box plus have a huge upfront free.

Got an HDHomeRun Prime instead. Best decision I ever made. Live tv, recordings all around the house and on my phone/iPad.

Of course the HDHR requires windows or some technical know how to get working in other platforms. Just a thought.

kas23
Aug 20, 2013, 10:50 AM
Is streaming TV shows to your iPad/iPhone when your not home really needed? I can see if you're on vacation, but it seems to me that if you got time to watch a TV show when you're out, you might as well just go home.

prowlmedia
Aug 20, 2013, 10:51 AM
Doesn't the Virgin Media Tivo box already do this on iPhone and iPad at least?

MattG
Aug 20, 2013, 10:52 AM
Why even release it if the streaming isn't working?

TiVo has a knack for releasing products into the wild that have no business of being there yet. They only just now released Netflix functionality into their TiVo Mini, which came out early this year (they told everyone "coming soon"). The TiVo Series4 has serious software issues for those of us using CableCards, and their support team largely just does a bunch of finger pointing when you call them on it.

I went shopping with my mom this weekend because she was going to outfit her house with TiVos, but we ended up not buying them because they all have incompatibility issues with each other. You can't use a TiVo Mini in conjunction with another TiVo unless you have the more expensive 4-tuner TiVo, even though there's no technical reason why that should be (the reason is they want you to have the more expensive model and/or were too lazy to update the software on the 2-tuner model to support the Mini). You can't use a TiVo Mini in conjunction with a regular TiVo if the regular TiVo is connected via wireless, but, if you have two full sized TiVos, they are somehow magically able to stream to each other over the wireless.

All in all their devices have a lot of stupid technical limitations that should not be, and that's why I gave up on them earlier this year.

dugbug
Aug 20, 2013, 10:56 AM
A lot of their limitations are restrictions related to being a certified cable card box unfortunately

redscull
Aug 20, 2013, 11:05 AM
I wish TiVo would support their existing units. They never seem to add functionality or fix problems with their hardware except via releasing completely new hardware. And that means you have to spend like $400 every time you want the features/fixes your existing hardware is otherwise fully capable of supporting. It also screws their lifetime membership customers even worse.

Like others said, I absolutely would not buy this new unit until the streaming works because that is really the only major feature this unit adds over the older ones. And based on TiVo's track record, when they do finally finish the streaming feature, it will require you to purchase even newer hardware; these existing Roamios likely won't even support it.

Plus, their TiVo app for iOS sucks. It looks pretty and sleek, but it's obnoxiously slow and has a terribly inefficient user interface design. Until they make some significant improvements to the app, new hardware designed to utilize that app more isn't all that exciting. We only use the app in our household when we literally can't find our remote. Even spending a minute or two looking for the remote will generally be quicker to accomplish what we're trying to do than using the app on a phone that is always within a foot of my hand.

herbman
Aug 20, 2013, 11:12 AM
This is a bit of misinformation. The streaming outside the house is not yet available. Streaming inside home networks to iOS devices will work on day 1, as this bundles in existing hardware (TiVo Stream). Streaming between this and other series 4/5 devices will also work on day 1.

redscull
Aug 20, 2013, 11:25 AM
This is a bit of misinformation. The streaming outside the house is not yet available. Streaming inside home networks to iOS devices will work on day 1, as this bundles in existing hardware (TiVo Stream). Streaming between this and other series 4/5 devices will also work on day 1.The current TiVO Stream product doesn't even work unless you have two (!) ethernet cables available to connect from the TiVo+Stream to your router. So a Roamio is a $400 fee to add wifi capability to the older TiVo+Stream package. This is what I'm talking about in regards to existing hardware. If I'd bought a Stream, I'd be outraged (but I didn't, cause ethernet-only was a deal breaker).

They need to sell a new Stream add-on that actually supports wifi so that my current TiVo can stream to iOS devices without me having to buy a whole new TiVo box plus LifeTime service.

rdlink
Aug 20, 2013, 11:33 AM
So, after 2 1/2 years of twice-weekly SPAM from TIVO, telling me how much I need to upgrade from my Series 3 to a Premiere, so that I can get the functionality that they could have easily put in the Series 3, now they're abandoning the Premiere for a new, half functional device?

No thanks. I'll keep the Series 3 until it craters, and hope that Apple has come out with a killer product to make cable obsolete by then.

dannyyankou
Aug 20, 2013, 11:41 AM
People still use TiVo?

Darien Red Sox
Aug 20, 2013, 11:43 AM
These will only last until the cable providers talk the FCC into not making them provide cable cards.

http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/Cable-Industry-Tries-to-Kill-the-CableCARD-for-Good-125440

People are saving money in the long run by using TiVo and not paying the cable industry for there sub standard DVRs and boxes. I did some quick calculations and found that the break even point would be about 5 years for some one in my area with two TVs, this dose not include the cost of electricity they would be saving because our local cable providers boxes have the added feature of a space heater.

herbman
Aug 20, 2013, 12:02 PM
The current TiVO Stream product doesn't even work unless you have two (!) ethernet cables available to connect from the TiVo+Stream to your router. So a Roamio is a $400 fee to add wifi capability to the older TiVo+Stream package. This is what I'm talking about in regards to existing hardware. If I'd bought a Stream, I'd be outraged (but I didn't, cause ethernet-only was a deal breaker).

They need to sell a new Stream add-on that actually supports wifi so that my current TiVo can stream to iOS devices without me having to buy a whole new TiVo box plus LifeTime service.

I apologize for the ambiguity; the misinformation I referred to was in the original post.

Most people on TCF have been placing streams next to their router. Also, I believe while the hardwire is a requirement, people use these over wireless generally fine, if the network is properly setup.

Alternatively, you can use MoCA. With the 4-tuner Premieres, the DVR can act as a MoCA gateway, so you can plug the coax into the DVR, and hang a switch off the Ethernet port and plug your Stream (and other ethernet devices) in there. Then all you'd need would be a MoCA adaptor plugged into your router and cable feed to officially get it talking to the rest of your LAN resources.

I don't currently have anything but a 2-tuner premiere, but I use MoCA currently (adapters on both sides of my coax) so I can put the Premiere on a more reliable signal and provide other wired devices by my TV (ATV, another access point, etc.). Looking forward to the 6 tuner middle model, so I can eliminate one specific MoCA adapter, gain stream ability, and support a TiVo mini in another room, which also natively speaks MoCA.

Good luck!

eyehop
Aug 20, 2013, 12:02 PM
People still use TiVo?

I do. It is still the best option for broadcast cable TV, but for Internet TV I switch to Apple TV, since TiVo sucks at it. I've used many boxes and services, and at the end of the day the noticeable flaw with them all is that our options are bound by the control the TV/entertainment industry puts on it's consumers. I do hope Apple can break through some of the divisions, but I'm afraid it's going to be proprietary, isolated, subscription-based apps on top of every other cost, from here to eternity.

GoCubsGo
Aug 20, 2013, 12:11 PM
TiVo was a good idea in concept to me. I paid fora 3-year service and just cancelled their $9.95 month to month because I just don't use it. It doesn't work with my DTV and sits in my office off most of the time.

That said, if I am going to pay for a cable provider then I don't want to pay extra for a cable card and the service it requires. $5-$9 on my bill was taxed making it almost $15 extra a month. TiVo would lose the handshake with the cable card and I'd have to reset a lot. That takes time. The box is a giant paperweight now.

This doesn't do anything for me. There are enough networks giving me service on my iPad that I don't need to pay for this box.

MattG
Aug 20, 2013, 12:36 PM
TiVo would lose the handshake with the cable card and I'd have to reset a lot.

YES YES YES!

"Problem with the signal on this cable channel, trying again."

Even though there's no problem with the signal, the other TVs (and TiVos) in the house still work, and rebooting the TiVo fixes the problem immediately. Meanwhile if your TiVo has been stuck like this for 2-3 days, it means it missed everything you asked it to record.

Yet, TiVo just wants to argue that it's the cable provider, and that there's something wrong with the signal, even though several appointments with Comcast have proven through and through that my signal is good.

One of TiVo's tech people actually told me, and I quote, "I've seen customers have to try 7-8 different CableCards before it worked properly." Right. There's no way it's you, TiVo.

rmwebs
Aug 20, 2013, 12:42 PM
Doesn't the Virgin Media Tivo box already do this on iPhone and iPad at least?

Nope. Its supposed to (and was supposed to when they launched the app last year) but they keep putting it off. All it lets you do right now is set up a recording. The (very old) Virgin Remote app for the iPhone did exactly the same thing, and it worked on both the Tivo boxes and the older Liberty boxes (V+HD).

nagromme
Aug 20, 2013, 01:18 PM
One look at that remote and I knew: THIS is the future!*

* Where by future, I mean 1990.

Good gravy! Looks like the kind of usability nightmare they used to sell in bulk to motels.

whooleytoo
Aug 20, 2013, 01:25 PM
Funny, my cable provider just launched a similar Samsung box here called Horizon (DVR, cable modem, Wifi router, 6 tuners, small selection of apps, can stream to iOS devices, iOS devices can act as remote control).

Biggest differences are the Horizon has just 500GB storage, and can only stream on the local network. On the plus side, there's just a 45 charge (the cable operator retains ownership) as opposed to up to $600.

Is anyone not converging on the living room?

kilcher
Aug 20, 2013, 01:50 PM
I love my TiVo but I just don't get their business model. If you're on a lifetime plan there's absolutely no incentive to ever give them any more money or upgrade your hardware. $500 for new lifetime service? I'll pass.

kbfr08
Aug 20, 2013, 02:49 PM
Am I the only one who really hates the way this thing looks? Not to mention the name is a stupid ass play on words.

Pagemakers
Aug 20, 2013, 03:01 PM
Nope. Its supposed to (and was supposed to when they launched the app last year) but they keep putting it off. All it lets you do right now is set up a recording. The (very old) Virgin Remote app for the iPhone did exactly the same thing, and it worked on both the Tivo boxes and the older Liberty boxes (V+HD).

You can stream a variety of Live TV channels but not stuff you have recorded.

Nermal
Aug 20, 2013, 03:21 PM
I love my TiVo but I just don't get their business model. If you're on a lifetime plan there's absolutely no incentive to ever give them any more money or upgrade your hardware. $500 for new lifetime service? I'll pass.

Are you in the US? What does the TiVo service actually provide?

Over here you only get the EPG, but there's no monthly fee for it. Do you get more than that in the US?

iMinnesotan
Aug 20, 2013, 03:56 PM
I love my TiVo HD XL but I'm not seeing much of a future for them unless they make it the must-have cable-cutting DVR. The new boxes still don't support Amazon Prime and the medium and high capacity models won't record local over-the-air channels. I don't care if the media is on the TiVo's hard drive or if it starts streaming immediately from the Internet; I would like their slick user interface to work the same for more content sources than they support today.

rmwebs
Aug 20, 2013, 04:44 PM
You can stream a variety of Live TV channels but not stuff you have recorded.

Last I checked you could only stream FTA channels - all of which are free on TV Catchup or online anyway. Does it allow you to stream Sky Movies, On Demand content, etc? Thats what they promised when it was launched.

Darien Red Sox
Aug 20, 2013, 10:34 PM
YES YES YES!

"Problem with the signal on this cable channel, trying again."

Even though there's no problem with the signal, the other TVs (and TiVos) in the house still work, and rebooting the TiVo fixes the problem immediately. Meanwhile if your TiVo has been stuck like this for 2-3 days, it means it missed everything you asked it to record.

Yet, TiVo just wants to argue that it's the cable provider, and that there's something wrong with the signal, even though several appointments with Comcast have proven through and through that my signal is good.

One of TiVo's tech people actually told me, and I quote, "I've seen customers have to try 7-8 different CableCards before it worked properly." Right. There's no way it's you, TiVo.

Sounds like a bad cable card, and yes sometimes people go through 7 or 8, it is not in Comcast's best interest to have your TiVo working.

MattG
Aug 21, 2013, 07:18 AM
Sounds like a bad cable card, and yes sometimes people go through 7 or 8, it is not in Comcast's best interest to have your TiVo working.

No, it's not a bad cable card, I went through many of them while testing it out, even brand new ones out of the box from Comcast. It makes no sense that it's the cable card.

And yes, it is in their best interest to have my TiVo working, if they want me paying for a Comcast subscription.

KdParker
Aug 21, 2013, 11:45 AM
How is TiVo still vialble since most cable providers provide the basically the same service with HD channels?

----------

Are you in the US? What does the TiVo service actually provide?

Over here you only get the EPG, but there's no monthly fee for it. Do you get more than that in the US?

I am in the US, and I am asking the same question. Not sure why I would need TiVo now.

MattG
Aug 21, 2013, 02:43 PM
How is TiVo still vialble since most cable providers provide the basically the same service with HD channels?

----------



I am in the US, and I am asking the same question. Not sure why I would need TiVo now.

For a long time, it was about the interface, which used to be far better on the TiVo than it was on the DVRs the cable companies offered (and in some cases, still is). As far as I know (someone correct me if I'm wrong), they were among the first, if not the first, to offer streaming from one DVR to another. Also, they offered the ability to program your TiVo online before cable companies started to.

Now, cable companies are starting to catch up, and they're offering DVRs that at the very least, you can say aren't "laughable" anymore compared to a TiVo.

Also...TiVo offers the ability to use other services such as Netflix and Amazon Prime on the same box. Comcast isn't going to do anything like that because it's just going to encourage you to use their bandwidth, and watch other content that they're not technically providing. Honestly, I'd probably still be with TiVo if it weren't for all of the connectivity issues with Comcast and cablecards that I grew tired of dealing with.

mainetivo
Aug 22, 2013, 05:50 AM
I was very disappointed that TIVO continues to ignore those of us who use antenna as our content source. This is amazing considering so many people are cutting the cable cord and need a good DVR. The new Roamio has a ghetto edition for antenna that basically does little over Premiere and doesn't offer streaming like the two cable models do. They also give a paltry 75 hours of hard disk space. I really wish Tivo would wake up and realize that it could increase its market segment by treating us non cable customers on parity with the cable models. I'd buy a new Roamio in a second if they would increase hard disk space and allow IOS streaming. For now I'll keep my two old Tivo IIIs since the new version gives me so little.:(

alent1234
Aug 22, 2013, 09:22 AM
with cable companies having services like start over or streaming recent episodes of a show, what exactly is the point of Tivo?

kilcher
Aug 23, 2013, 09:38 AM
Are you in the US? What does the TiVo service actually provide?

Over here you only get the EPG, but there's no monthly fee for it. Do you get more than that in the US?

Guide data is about it.

Monthly is not really an option for me since I prefer to pay once and be done. If I wanted the new Roamio box I'd have to pay between $200 and $600 for the box (depending on which model) plus $500 for lifetime service. That's $700 - $1100.

I just don't get their business model. They must not make any money on hardware because it's set up in a way that there's no incentive for existing customers to upgrade and if you do they gouge you on the service.

Yes, they need to make money but maybe they need to look at different revenue streams. They already show you ads (on a box/service you've already spent a lot of money on). Maybe they could incorporate the ability to sign up for Hulu, Netflix, Amazon Prime, etc. right from the Tivo and get a cut of revenue. Or when you rent a movie on PPV they get a cut. Maybe they do all of that already. If they are they shouldn't need $500 from me. If they're not then they need to try harder and lower the cost to bring in and keep customers.

aristobrat
Aug 23, 2013, 10:50 AM
You can't use a TiVo Mini in conjunction with another TiVo unless you have the more expensive 4-tuner TiVo, even though there's no technical reason why that should be.
I agree that there's no technical reason. I think the reason centers around usability.

To watch live TV on a TiVo mini, the mini utilizes a tuner on the host TiVo. I think this is great, BTW -- the mini allows me to have live TV in other rooms without having to pay for a cable card in every room).

But that means that every time someone on a mini watches live TV, it decrements the number of tuners on the host TiVo. So one mini watching live TV turns a 2-tuner TiVo into a 1-tuner TiVo. Two minis watching live TV turns a 2-tuner TiVo into a 0-tuner TiVo. Or, if both tuners on a 2-tuner TiVo are busy recording stuff, none of the minis could watch live TV.

I think that situation would piss off most average consumers, so TiVo decided for usability reasons (not technical reasons) to say that minis can only be used with 4-tuner TiVos.


How is TiVo still vialble since most cable providers provide the basically the same service with HD channels?
For me, (after a large up-front investment) TiVo works out to be a whole lot cheaper, and it's always been way more fun to use.

My cable company charges $60/month for me to rent a six-tuner DVR box (living room) + rent three additional "converter boxes" so the bedrooms can watch the recorded shows.

If I were to go out and buy the biggest six-tuner TiVo Roamio (living room) + three TiVo minis (bedrooms), and pay Lifetime Service for each, I'd be out $1,746 up front.

At the end of five years:

... I would have paid $3,600 to the cable company just for the fees to rent their DVR + convertor boxes.

... I would have paid $1,746 for TiVo DVR hardware + service. Plus I own the equipment, and can resell it. I just sold a TiVo Series 3 on eBay this week for $350. I bought it back in 2007 for ~$650 (including Lifetime Service).

Comparing what it costs to rent the stuff from my cable company, I break even with the high-upfront cost TiVos on month 30. Every month after that is $60/month saved.

bnnentertainmen
Aug 23, 2013, 10:53 AM
nice and impressive, but overpriced. they used to produce inexpensive products i dont know what happened to them. i see low sales.

aristobrat
Aug 23, 2013, 11:18 AM
nice and impressive, but overpriced. they used to produce inexpensive products i dont know what happened to them. i see low sales.
Priced as they are, there really aren't any lower-cost alternatives. :confused:

Nermal
Aug 23, 2013, 03:36 PM
Guide data is about it.

Monthly is not really an option for me since I prefer to pay once and be done. If I wanted the new Roamio box I'd have to pay between $200 and $600 for the box (depending on which model) plus $500 for lifetime service. That's $700 - $1100.

That's shocking. My box was NZ$300 (about US$240) and there are no service charges on top of that. Maybe they were going for economies of scale here or something; make it cheap enough that "everyone" buys one. That didn't seem to work out, because not only have I seen very few TiVos "in the wild" but you can no longer even buy a new box here (although old boxes continue to work and they still replace defective ones).