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whocares
Nov 22, 2005, 09:15 AM
General notes:

1. Assignments are posted on the 1st Monday of each month.
2. Assignments are open to all MR members.
3. By submitting artwork, members implicitly agree to all these rules.

Submission rules:

1. The artwork must meet all other forum rules.
2. The artwork must meet all legal requirements. For example: authorization from models (if any) must be secured.
3. The artwork must meet all assignment rules.
4. Members should be the owner of the artwork they submit.
5. A member may submit a maximum of one (1) artwork per assignment.
6. Artwork must me submitted between the 3rd Monday and 3rd Tuesday (included) of the assignment month. Artwork submitted outside of this timeframe will be deleted.
7. The artwork - including shooting of photo(s), must be created during the assignment period.
8. Any MR member is free to submit artwork for any assignment, regardless if he/she submitted artwork to a previous assignment or not.
9. Members may accompany their artwork with a maximum of five (5) lines of text to explain his/her choices, camera settings, post-processing, etc.
10. Members accept that all artwork submitted will have a Creative Commons licence. [note: I suggest this licence (http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/2.5/)]
11. Artwork may be created by any kind of digital camera and any post-processing ("Photoshopping") the member sees fit. Post-processing must meet Photoshopping rules detailed below.
12. Scans of film may or may not be permitted.


Comments/critique/discssion:

1. Discussion may begin on 3rd Wednesday of the assignment month. No time limit is fixed for the moment.
2. Only members who submitted artwork to current assignment may enter the discussion.
3. Comments, critiques and discussion must meet all forum rules.
4. Comments, critiques and discussion most be constructive, objective and aimed at improving the quality of the artwork.
5. Artistic choices (for example: choice of subject, assignment interpretation, etc.) may be discussed, but not criticized.
6. Equipment used may be discussed, commented or criticized only if this helps in improving artwork quality.
7. Comment posts must include a reference to the artwork being discussed. Links to original post are preferred, but post # is an acceptable alternative. [maybe replace with inserting attachment?]


Photoshopping rules:

1. All Photoshopping must be accompanied with its detailed description so all may benefit from it.
2. Artwork may only be Photoshopped with explicit authorization from the owner.
3. Photoshopping of artwork outside its corresponding assignment thread is not permitted without explicit authorization of the owner.
4. Photoshopping must be keep simple, so members with less advanced software may reproduce the same processing.
5. The sole purpose of Photoshopping is to enhance the artisitic/technical quality of the artwork.


To do list:

1. How and when do we settle on next month's assignment?



whocares
Nov 22, 2005, 09:16 AM
Ok. Let's finalise the rules.

I'll edit my first post as necessary and maybe this thread can be made a sticky. :cool:

Shoot away :D

efoto
Nov 22, 2005, 10:06 AM
Ok. Let's finalise the rules.

I'll edit my first post as necessary and maybe this thread can be made a sticky. :cool:

Shoot away :D

Excellent work, thanks for drafting that up. I would certainly second this as a sticky to this thread hoping that these assignments catch on and become a regular thing here.

On to the rules:
*General Rules:
Agree on all points.

*Submission Rules:
6 - Artwork should be allowed to be submitted anytime between assignment start day (1st Monday) and the final submission day (3rd Wednesday). There is no reason to cram all submissions into two days. If someone is ready before, that should be allowed.
13 - I am not opposed to allowing scans of film, although that makes PP quite difficult if the member was requesting help in that form.

*Comments/critique/discssion:
5 - I think there should be room here for commenting. If there is a shot I took that could be improved by changing a technical aspect of my shot, I would like to know about it. The quality of the image I agree on, for example telling me sharper would have been better....I probably know that.
7 - Sticky this on its own :p We don't want any debates over a certain system making the shot better than the other....bold this please!
8 - It may be helpful to make Point 1 state that discussions are not permitted to begin until submissions have completed, and then reiterate that point with Point 8 (then 9 if shifted). It would be best to make this completely clear so that all submissions are at the top and no discussion starts until all images are submitted.

Photoshopping rules:
4 - This may prove difficult based on what the original shooter was going for. For example, if we choose to have a 'high contrast' assignment where I choose desaturate the image and bring forth color from a focal point using a history brush, I'm not sure how else to do that and I don't know if other programs have that....

To do list:
I think if we have recommendations submitted to someone, and then they can start a poll at the beginning of each month that will be voted on, without comment, until the 1st Monday of said month, that may work. If all recommendations are submitted to a singular person, then they will make it into the poll when that person makes the post.

As an aside, will that CC license be an 'understanding' or is there a way to apply that on a per-image basis without watermarking or ruining the ease of the assignment?

whocares
Nov 22, 2005, 10:36 AM
*Submission Rules:
6 - Artwork should be allowed to be submitted anytime between assignment start day (1st Monday) and the final submission day (3rd Wednesday). There is no reason to cram all submissions into two days. If someone is ready before, that should be allowed.
13 - I am not opposed to allowing scans of film, although that makes PP quite difficult if the member was requesting help in that form.

6 - The idea here is to not be influenced too much by other member's work. But I'm quite open to change.
13 - It's fine with me but makes rule 11 hard to enforce.

*Comments/critique/discssion:
5 - I think there should be room here for commenting. If there is a shot I took that could be improved by changing a technical aspect of my shot, I would like to know about it. The quality of the image I agree on, for example telling me sharper would have been better....I probably know that.
7 - Sticky this on its own :p We don't want any debates over a certain system making the shot better than the other....bold this please!
8 - It may be helpful to make Point 1 state that discussions are not permitted to begin until submissions have completed, and then reiterate that point with Point 8 (then 9 if shifted). It would be best to make this completely clear so that all submissions are at the top and no discussion starts until all images are submitted.

5 - ok. I ammended that one. Members can choose for themselves. This is where we find out if we'll behave like adults :eek: :p
7 - done
8 - done

Photoshopping rules:
4 - This may prove difficult based on what the original shooter was going for. For example, if we choose to have a 'high contrast' assignment where I choose desaturate the image and bring forth color from a focal point using a history brush, I'm not sure how else to do that and I don't know if other programs have that....

The idea here is to not hinder/exclude members with little software. Needs discussing I guess.

To do list:
I think if we have recommendations submitted to someone, and then they can start a poll at the beginning of each month that will be voted on, without comment, until the 1st Monday of said month, that may work. If all recommendations are submitted to a singular person, then they will make it into the poll when that person makes the post.

That's a good idea. What's the max number of poll items? The member(s) in charge of gathering suggestions could create a poll to decide.

As an aside, will that CC license be an 'understanding' or is there a way to apply that on a per-image basis without watermarking or ruining the ease of the assignment?

The idea is that all artwork is posted with the same licence and that this licence be clearly known. Basically it states that people can re-use, modify and distribute the artwork for non-commercial use as long as the original owner is credited. It clearly states what your rights are to your artwork so people won't come complaining if somebody else uses their art. Again I'm open to change and this needs to be debated.

Applespider
Nov 22, 2005, 11:04 AM
So far as the commenting goes, I think it all depends on the tone of the commenting. I don't think I'd object to someone suggesting cropping something tighter to give it better composition, discussing whether something might have been more interesting shot from another angle or sharpening something a little more to give it more impact. I think if the comments are constructive criticism about something that can be corrected or learned from then that's fine. It's if it turns into subjective criticism or the arguments over equipment that we'll end up with tears and the rules should protect against.

So far as equipment goes, are we mentioning it at all in the camera settings part?

yellow
Nov 22, 2005, 11:12 AM
I think all comments/critiques should be required to include the number of the post that includes the submitted photo (possibly linked for ease of use), so we can easily distinguish WHICH picture is being discuessed, as we tend to free-form it and it can get confusing.

whocares
Nov 22, 2005, 11:14 AM
So far as the commenting goes, I think it all depends on the tone of the commenting. I don't think I'd object to someone suggesting cropping something tighter to give it better composition, discussing whether something might have been more interesting shot from another angle or sharpening something a little more to give it more impact. I think if the comments are constructive criticism about something that can be corrected or learned from then that's fine. It's if it turns into subjective criticism or the arguments over equipment that we'll end up with tears and the rules should protect against.

So far as equipment goes, are we mentioning it at all in the camera settings part?

I agree that comments and discussion rules may be a bit restrictive. Let's scrap #6 and see how things go along?

As for equipment, I guess it's up to the author to mention or not what equipment was used. IMHO only post equipment used if it's relevant, for example: "I used my 200mm telephoto to compress perspective" is good as it has educational value. Stuff like "I used my 14.7 mega pixel D2X, my 12-24mm f:2.8 superwide angle zoom and my $$$ Manfrotto tripod to shoot this perfectly normal landscape" is silly and should be frowned upon. [BTW, I owne *none* of the aforementionned equipment ;) :p ]

yellow
Nov 22, 2005, 11:18 AM
sooo... I can't spend the time typing:

I pressed that little whatsit on the top.. the umm button.. and the flash went off and I got this picture of my bum in the mirror?

Lau
Nov 22, 2005, 11:24 AM
I think all comments/critiques should be required to include the number of the post that includes the submitted photo (possibly linked for ease of use), so we can easily distinguish WHICH picture is being discuessed, as we tend to free-form it and it can get confusing.

What if each image was a seperate thread called Assignment 1 Yellow or Assignment 03/12/05 Lau or something? Then the discussion would continue after the image on each thread.

It could cause problems if it's anonymous, I expect, but still could be Assignment 1 - Submission A, Assignment 1 - Submission B, etc.

whocares
Nov 22, 2005, 11:27 AM
What if each image was a seperate thread called Assignment 1 Yellow or Assignment 03/12/05 Lau or something? Then the discussion would continue after the image on each thread.

It could cause problems if it's anonymous, I expect, but still could be Assignment 1 - Submission A, Assignment 1 - Submission B, etc.

I like the idea. But I also like the idea of having all the photos in the same thread so we can easily compare them.

How about one thread for submitting and individual threads for discussion (the discussion thread(s) being linked to in the original submission post)?

Applespider
Nov 22, 2005, 11:29 AM
What if each image was a seperate thread called Assignment 1 Yellow or Assignment 03/12/05 Lau or something? Then the discussion would continue after the image on each thread.


This might lead to problems where people see how often/seldom their thread has been viewed or commented on in comparison to others.

I think it would be more fun having all the pics in one thread and the comments in another - it's easy enough to have them both open so long as the commentor references which one it is.

yellow
Nov 22, 2005, 11:38 AM
I'm afraid that having separate threads for each photo and comments would lead to some being missed in the shuffle. As it is, my UK friends are from the shiney future.. and if I, here in the barbarous past were to post at 10PM my time, I don't think anyone but the occational drunk yabbo (what are those burbury sporters called?) to peruse the picture of my backside for comments and critiques. At least if all the pics are in one thread we'll be less likely to miss one.

whocares
Nov 22, 2005, 11:44 AM
I'm afraid that having separate threads for each photo and comments would lead to some being missed in the shuffle. As it is, my UK friends are from the shiney future.. and if I, here in the barbarous past were to post at 10PM my time, I don't think anyone but the occational drunk yabbo (what are those burbury sporters called?) to peruse the picture of my backside for comments and critiques. At least if all the pics are in one thread we'll be less likely to miss one.

Good point! How about all photos are uploaded as attachments and we include the attachment in all subsequent discussion posts of that particular photo?

Attachment thumbnails are quite small so this wouldn't crowd the threads too much and would make it quite clear what photo a comment is referring to.

yellow
Nov 22, 2005, 12:03 PM
I wouldn't want to have to re-attach the attachment, as that's putting uneccesary strain on the database. I think if we just include a link to the particular post in each post, that would suffice.

For example, I'm very proud of this picture.. and it's ability to cause blindness.

Linked: HERE (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=1916831&postcount=108)

(Enjoy!)

efoto
Nov 22, 2005, 12:10 PM
Good point! How about all photos are uploaded as attachments and we include the attachment in all subsequent discussion posts of that particular photo?

Attachment thumbnails are quite small so this wouldn't crowd the threads too much and would make it quite clear what photo a comment is referring to.

We should upload all images as attachments to make them easily accessible and reference-able, but the only problem is that the original attachment is the only one that is thumbnailed. If you type [url=....... for a given attachment, it links to the fullsize image, not the thumbnail. There may be a way to link the thumb, but I guess I don't know it.

It may make sense to have a Submissions thread and a Discussions thread both relating to the same assignment....seems fine to me. I wouldn't mind them being one as long as the submissions were at the top.

Applespider
Nov 22, 2005, 12:19 PM
Incidentally, what's going to happen with the 1st of the month is the first Monday?

Why don't we start the poll on 25th or so of previous month when the comments are slowing down and we can be ready to go on the 1st.

whocares
Nov 22, 2005, 12:19 PM
We should upload all images as attachments to make them easily accessible and reference-able, but the only problem is that the original attachment is the only one that is thumbnailed. If you type (...) for a given attachment, it links to the fullsize image, not the thumbnail. There may be a way to link the thumb, but I guess I don't know it.

I think we have the attachment tag (http://forums.macrumors.com/misc.php?do=bbcode#attach) but am unsure how it's used. I guess we'll just have to experiment :)

Mr. Anderson
Nov 22, 2005, 12:20 PM
I think the rules might be a little knee jerking from the recent stupidity.

You should be able to comment/critique the artwork or hardware. Just realize that the *FORUM RULES* apply and that any personal attacks, baiting and general stupidity that requires a mod to come in here and clean the crap up is going to be met with force. It would behoove all members participating to understand this and not get carried away or let someone draw you into a fight.

There will always be cases where technique could have been a little better - but for some reason you didn't get the shot you wanted and ended up with something else.

Lets just play nice so that critiquing work can actually help people shoot better the next time around.

D

yellow
Nov 22, 2005, 12:22 PM
There you go, making sense again. :rolleyes: :)

efoto
Nov 22, 2005, 12:22 PM
So far as equipment goes, are we mentioning it at all in the camera settings part?
As for equipment, I guess it's up to the author to mention or not what equipment was used. IMHO only post equipment used if it's relevant, for example: "I used my 200mm telephoto to compress perspective" is good as it has educational value. Stuff like "I used my 14.7 mega pixel D2X, my 12-24mm f:2.8 superwide angle zoom and my $$$ Manfrotto tripod to shoot this perfectly normal landscape" is silly and should be frowned upon.

I think equipment can be mentioned, even in a technical sense. It all goes back to iGary's comments about being adults. I would find it interesting to know that someone used a 12-24 f2.8 vs. a 24-70 f2.8. Even both at 24 may produce different images and it would be helpful to know that, at least informative to know. I'm not even against including camera body either, I just hesitate because I don't want such pointless comments as "that could have been better if you used a Canon"....that is just useless and helps no one.

whocares
Nov 22, 2005, 12:31 PM
Maybe we (I) are being a bit too anal with these rules. I'll loosen them up (I stille believe rules are important so members know what they can do/say and they can't).

---

Suggestions for determining assignments:
1. Assigmnent thread is started on 25th of month preceding assignment. Members post assignment ideas.
2. First 5 (10?) posted (suitable) ideas are kept and thread is turn into a poll.
3. All MR members may vote in the poll to choose the assignment.
4. If a sufficient number of ideas isn't reached 5 days before the assignment starts, polls is taken all the same.
5. Poll closes on the 1st Monday of the month.


Does this make sense?

efoto
Nov 22, 2005, 12:33 PM
I think the rules might be a little knee jerking from the recent stupidity.

You should be able to comment/critique the artwork or hardware. Just realize that the *FORUM RULES* apply and that any personal attacks, baiting and general stupidity that requires a mod to come in here and clean the crap up is going to be met with force. It would behoove all members participating to understand this and not get carried away or let someone draw you into a fight.

Not to cut on moderation, but there are times when things get carried away and they are not dealt with quickly or to member satisfaction. I would assume the problem lies with the mass quantity of posts vs. quantity of moderators, but regardless there are times when you are reading and you just want to remove a post yourself because it's pointless/useless/harmful and you know it will take forever for someone on moderation to find it.

As far as being able to comment/critique the hardware, what possible good can come from this? If I shoot Canon and you shoot Nikon, how could you constructively critique my hardware without telling me to switch or that it is junk? If my image has noise do you blame my sensor and tell me to switch? There is just no good that comes from this that I can see....it's ALWAYS downhill, proven many times on MR.

Abstract
Nov 22, 2005, 12:34 PM
Yeah, some of these rules are like the rules that already exist in the rest of this board, so having them written up here is a bit redundant from a mod's point of view, although some of these contest specific rules are obviously necessary.

Also, nobody reads long lists of rules, even if the thread is a sticky. :eek:

yellow
Nov 22, 2005, 12:37 PM
However, if everyone that wanted to participate was directed to read the 'rules of the thread'.. which was a pointer to the forum rules with a few additions that will/won't be tollerated, like the aforementioned 'canon sux'...

efoto
Nov 22, 2005, 12:39 PM
Maybe we (I) are being a bit too anal with these rules. I'll loosen them up (I stille believe rules are important so members know what they can do/say and they can't).

I don't think they should be loosened up at all, I like them nice and strict because it keeps people on a short leash. We have seen time and time again on MR that people get carried away, especially when a little flame is under their butt....I do not want to see a rather fun thing turn into a stupid war over brands, it's just pointless.
The only problem I see with the rules is that we have no way to enforce them, because Mr. A said *forum rules* should suffice, and without mod support, we can't clean up our own stuff.

Suggestions for determining assignments:
1. Assigmnent thread is started on 25th of month preceding assignment. Members post assignment ideas.
2. First 5 (10?) posted (suitable) ideas are kept and thread is turn into a poll.
3. All MR members may vote in the poll to choose the assignment.
4. If a sufficient number of ideas isn't reached 5 days before the assignment starts, polls is taken all the same.
5. Poll closes on the 1st Monday of the month.

Does this make sense?
It makes sense, but can we do that? Can a thread be turned poll after the fact or does it have to be started as a poll?
Also, we need some sort of criteria for determining what is a valid 'assignment'.
My example contained a topic and a (color) theme, I think those two are good. If each month we choose a gross topic (nature, wildlife, architecture, automobiles) and then add a stylized theme (B&W, high-contrast, deep red (think filters here)) I think we can have a long-standing run without repeats.

Applespider
Nov 22, 2005, 12:39 PM
but regardless there are times when you are reading and you just want to remove a post yourself because it's pointless/useless/harmful and you know it will take forever for someone on moderation to find it.

Isn't that when you hit the 'report' button so the mods can act on it quicker?

As far as being able to comment/critique the hardware, what possible good can come from this?

To be honest, I mentioned it more to limit some of the possible comments/critiques. If I tell you that my image came from a P&S, then there's no point in someone telling me that I should consider certain settings/lenses which might not be available to me. Equally though if you get a great effect with a camera, you should be allow to mention the brand in case people are searching MR for comments on that model.

efoto
Nov 22, 2005, 12:40 PM
Also, nobody reads long lists of rules, even if the thread is a sticky. :eek:

At least if they are published somewhere, especially as a sticky, we can link them with a big "we told you so" to the sticky and there would be no question if they were in the right or the wrong.

efoto
Nov 22, 2005, 12:45 PM
Isn't that when you hit the 'report' button so the mods can act on it quicker?

Valid, I suppose I should do that more often if I truly feel that something is that offensive.

To be honest, I mentioned it more to limit some of the possible comments/critiques. If I tell you that my image came from a P&S, then there's no point in someone telling me that I should consider certain settings/lenses which might not be available to me. Equally though if you get a great effect with a camera, you should be allow to mention the brand in case people are searching MR for comments on that model.

It makes sense to post what you used in the shot, be it DSLR/P&S/iSight w/laptop :p, but it doesn't make sense to comment on it in my mind. My point was that no good can come from comments related to hardware. I can see that posting hardware setups will make some comments pointless (like suggesting a different lens for a P&S camera) but for others it doesn't make sense. If you said you used a P&S to shoot a canyon somewhere and the only comments were to the sound of "you should get a dslr with a nice telephoto to get in closer" that doesn't do anyone a lick of good.

yellow
Nov 22, 2005, 12:48 PM
How about this then:

All comments must be limited to those that don't encourage the poster to spend more $$$, unless the poster SPECIFICALLY inquires about it?

That will take care of all the hardware issues, software issues, etc. And if the poster WANTS to know what could be done better that will cost $$$, said poster can ask for it (and deal with the consequences).

Make sense?

whocares
Nov 22, 2005, 12:50 PM
To be honest, I mentioned it more to limit some of the possible comments/critiques. If I tell you that my image came from a P&S, then there's no point in someone telling me that I should consider certain settings/lenses which might not be available to me. Equally though if you get a great effect with a camera, you should be allow to mention the brand in case people are searching MR for comments on that model.

I hadn't understood that from your previous post. It now make great sense :o :o :)

The only problem I see with the rules is that we have no way to enforce them

Quite true. But at least there is some debate! With what I've read so far (admitted only few members have participated) we all seem to vision this assignment idea more or less the same so it should (will!) go ok. We just need to prepare for unforeseen problems.

efoto
Nov 22, 2005, 12:50 PM
How about this then:

All comments must be limited to those that don't encourage the poster to spend more $$$, unless the poster SPECIFICALLY inquires about it?

That will take care of all the hardware issues, software issues, etc. And if the poster WANTS to know what could be done better that will cost $$$, said poster can ask for it (and deal with the consequences).

Make sense?

Makes perfect sense to me. It's really quite sad we have to go to such extremes in defining rules for an online forum. What's even worse, is that we have to, otherwise things just get out of control :(

Sounds good to me yellow, I hope you get presidential powers and can chop away all of those who break said law.

Applespider
Nov 22, 2005, 12:52 PM
If you said you used a P&S to shoot a canyon somewhere and the only comments were to the sound of "you should get a dslr with a nice telephoto to get in closer" that doesn't do anyone a lick of good.

Very true... although that would also fail the 'constructive criticism' rule. You'd have to settle for a comment along the lines of 'Was there any chance of you getting closer to the edge to get a better shot?' in case it was taken from the seat of a tour bus because they couldn't be bothered getting off. :p

Equally though, it wouldn't do any harm to say that it's really hard to get shots that show the entire scope of the Grand Canyon without a wide-angle lens and a custom-ride in a helicopter! Give the photographer credit for doing the best they can with the tool they had and reminds the next person, who does have a wide angle lens and a helicopter, to take it with them.

Josh
Nov 23, 2005, 10:21 AM
On some other forums I go to, they require EXIF info to be posted along with the photos when doing competitions.

Maybe the same could go here, to insure the photos are only from the designated period?

Just a thought.

efoto
Nov 23, 2005, 10:29 AM
Very true... although that would also fail the 'constructive criticism' rule. You'd have to settle for a comment along the lines of 'Was there any chance of you getting closer to the edge to get a better shot?' in case it was taken from the seat of a tour bus because they couldn't be bothered getting off. :p

Equally though, it wouldn't do any harm to say that it's really hard to get shots that show the entire scope of the Grand Canyon without a wide-angle lens and a custom-ride in a helicopter! Give the photographer credit for doing the best they can with the tool they had and reminds the next person, who does have a wide angle lens and a helicopter, to take it with them.

I'm just hoping people can act mature and post comments that are constructive and help people. It should be a no-brainer that if they say they used a P&S to not recommend a new lens or something....I just hope people act their age (or round up to at least 20 if they are younger :p)

-hh
Nov 23, 2005, 11:54 AM
Comments as of revision Wednesday 11-23-05, 18:30 Zulu:

Submission rules:
...
7. The artwork - including shooting of photo(s), must be created during the assignment period.
...
11. Artwork may be created by any kind of digital camera and any post-processing ("Photoshopping") the member sees fit. Post-processing must meet Photoshopping rules detailed below.

12. Scans of film may or may not be permitted.

Comments/critique/discssion:

2. Only members who submitted artwork to current assignment may enter the discussion.

Photoshopping rules:

1. All Photoshopping must be accompanied with its detailed description so all may benefit from it.

My comments:

Submission-7: I understand the intent, but this will cause a hardship for some of us who would like to contribute, but whose schedules don't permit.

My suggestion is to revise #7 so that the assignement also calls out the "act of photo" period, with the default being the same. Doing this then allows the flexibility to decouple the assignment date from the "act of photo" date, which would then allow some assignments to specifically be given "no" time period restrictions and thus be opened up to allow old works.

Submission-11+12: the intent appears to be to keep this to a "purist" digital imaging from the start, but (a) is this really necessary? and (b) is it really important to do this?

Given the rapid growth in popularity of digital and the relative nuisance it can be to scan film, I don't personally think we're going to see many digitized film submissions anyway...probably well under 10%. As such, I'd opine that its not a big enough problem to worry about.

Similarly, I would say that exclusion of digitized scans of film might be a way to reduce the potential for someone to cheat on Assignement dates, but someone who wants to cheat will figure out how to falsify EXIF data anyway: it would probably be more effective to have a "no cheating on dates" rule than to try to enforce it through an indirect means.

My suggested reworks here are:

11. Artwork may be created by any kind of still camera and any post-processing ("Photoshopping") the member sees fit. Post-processing must meet Photoshopping rules detailed below.

12. Scans of film are permitted, but require documentation of the date of the original as well as the date of the scan be known.

Comments-2: If only a member who submitted artwork can enter a discussion, two things can happen:

a) some people will submit garbage just to be able to then discuss

b) a valued regular who for some reason wasn't able to submit this month will be administratively not allowed to participate in the month he missed.

Recommend changing this to say that in order to participate, discussants must have submitted at least "X times within the past Y assignments", where X=1 and Y=3 are IMO reasonable values to work within. My rationale gets back to the question of what is the real underlying purpose here: is it primarily to show images, or to use the images as a starting point for discussions?

Photoshopping rules-1: how much detail will be required for common tasks, such as Auto-levels and cropping? Is it sufficient to merely say "Auto-Level & Composition Crop"?

My suggestion here would be to say that a general description of very minor stuff is fine, but when the changes become involved (noteworthy), then the submission should include both a "before" and "after" image to be submitted.


-hh

whocares
Nov 23, 2005, 01:04 PM
-hh

Those are some valid points you make there. I'll take them into to account when I have time (later tonight?).

_______


As is seems these rules may not be deemed as necessary by the powers that be (shows that they actually trust us :) ), I suggest we turn them into guidelines and refer to them as necessary.

-hh
Nov 23, 2005, 01:20 PM
-hh

Those are some valid points you make there. I'll take them into to account when I have time (later tonight?).

Glad to have helped.

BTW, I also saw some comments about panoramics and QTVR's as potential contributions - - I think that they'll fit as they're technically both "Stills" (the word change I made in #11) if that's mutually agreeable; note that the word "Still" also precludes videos, which has been inferred but not otherwise explicitly stated as something not of interest herein.

-hh

efoto
Nov 24, 2005, 10:04 AM
Submission-7: I understand the intent, but this will cause a hardship for some of us who would like to contribute, but whose schedules don't permit.

My suggestion is to revise #7 so that the assignement also calls out the "act of photo" period, with the default being the same. Doing this then allows the flexibility to decouple the assignment date from the "act of photo" date, which would then allow some assignments to specifically be given "no" time period restrictions and thus be opened up to allow old works.

I don't see this as a major issue. If you can't make the assignment deadline, then you just miss out on that month's assignment. It isn't the end of the world, and since each assignment is open to ALL members, you can just take on the assignments you have time for. There are plenty of threads I would like to get involved in, but often one post doesn't seem relevant if I don't stay involved, so I just refrain from posting at all knowing I have my hand in enough other stuff at the moment.

Submission-11+12: the intent appears to be to keep this to a "purist" digital imaging from the start, but (a) is this really necessary? and (b) is it really important to do this?

Given the rapid growth in popularity of digital and the relative nuisance it can be to scan film, I don't personally think we're going to see many digitized film submissions anyway...probably well under 10%. As such, I'd opine that its not a big enough problem to worry about.

Similarly, I would say that exclusion of digitized scans of film might be a way to reduce the potential for someone to cheat on Assignement dates, but someone who wants to cheat will figure out how to falsify EXIF data anyway: it would probably be more effective to have a "no cheating on dates" rule than to try to enforce it through an indirect means.

I'm hoping that cheating on the dates won't be too big of an issue, after all this is just a learning 'game' of sorts, no real reason to cheat. If we were handing out cash prizes to the winner each month, for current works, this would be more important, but since we are not, I see no problem with scans. For digital, if it's easy to do (I'm not sure I know how :p) we can tack on the exif data to the post, no biggy.

My suggested reworks here are:

Comments-2: If only a member who submitted artwork can enter a discussion, two things can happen:

a) some people will submit garbage just to be able to then discuss

b) a valued regular who for some reason wasn't able to submit this month will be administratively not allowed to participate in the month he missed.

Recommend changing this to say that in order to participate, discussants must have submitted at least "X times within the past Y assignments", where X=1 and Y=3 are IMO reasonable values to work within. My rationale gets back to the question of what is the real underlying purpose here: is it primarily to show images, or to use the images as a starting point for discussions?

That would work I suppose. I suggested that simply to increase the participation in the assignments. There are a lot of people who may want to be involved (discuss) but would never post work. It seems more 'equal', especially for those of us who are new to this, to have other picture-posters critique our work than just random 'know-hows'. I realize this may be cutting out some great talents, but overall I still hold that it is a good idea.

Photoshopping rules-1: how much detail will be required for common tasks, such as Auto-levels and cropping? Is it sufficient to merely say "Auto-Level & Composition Crop"?

My suggestion here would be to say that a general description of very minor stuff is fine, but when the changes become involved (noteworthy), then the submission should include both a "before" and "after" image to be submitted.

I think the description of what is done is as much about learning as it is a simple descriptor of ABC steps. For automatic functions (I let PS do....) it is pretty simple, but if you are doing some 'custom' work it would be helpful to say "when I was adjusting curves I tried to get the curve to look like...." or "keep the R, G, and B values equal to 100 because...." to further learning. I know a few things about PS, but not nearly as many as I would like. Whenever I talk to photog friends they are always talking about layers/filters/techniques I've never heard of, so it's nice to have a little explanation.

Josh
Nov 28, 2005, 03:31 PM
I posted this in another thread, but it was the wrong one (it was from 04...yikes!)

This seems more like the correct place, rather than creating a new thread. So here it is:

Can we get a set of rules for the photography forum (and all threads within it)?

One thing I absolutely HATE seeing on other sites, and unfortunately it's already appearing here, is the obnoxious behavior of people re-editting other people's photos, and then posting them up with a "There..better" type of comment.

Fixing someone elses photos, regardless of how well it worked or did not work, without being asked by the person who posted it, is incredibly rude.

Nothing bothers me more on photography forums. Just because one person thinks they can improve a photo does not mean they should attempt to do so. It's very immature, very obnoxious, very impolite, and it's far too common on other sites. I'd like to put a stop to it here before it gets out of control - anyone agree?

efoto
Nov 28, 2005, 11:04 PM
I posted this in another thread, but it was the wrong one (it was from 04...yikes!)

This seems more like the correct place, rather than creating a new thread. So here it is:

Can we get a set of rules for the photography forum (and all threads within it)?

One thing I absolutely HATE seeing on other sites, and unfortunately it's already appearing here, is the obnoxious behavior of people re-editting other people's photos, and then posting them up with a "There..better" type of comment.

Fixing someone elses photos, regardless of how well it worked or did not work, without being asked by the person who posted it, is incredibly rude.

Nothing bothers me more on photography forums. Just because one person thinks they can improve a photo does not mean they should attempt to do so. It's very immature, very obnoxious, very impolite, and it's far too common on other sites. I'd like to put a stop to it here before it gets out of control - anyone agree?

Photoshopping Rules - Point #2

It's in there, and has been commented on a few times so assuming these rules stick in a 'self-patroling' environment, it's in there.