Why do people expect Apple to blow away their expectations?

[Brent Turbo]

Here's something I've never quite understood...

In recent years, people are constantly expecting Apple to turn around at the last second, and blow away everyone's expectations. To my knowledge, it's never happened in reality, or in the never-satisfied world of Mac message boards.

Remember when OSX 10.1 was about to come out? What was the buzz at the moment? Apple had a secret build of 10.1 that was WAY ahead of the one that was seeded as the golden master, and they were REALLY going to release that one, not the slower 10.1. And which one got released? Yep, the one that got seeded a couple of weeks before. The boring old 10.1, not a super secret one.

Apple's pro line is the latest in a line of unrealistic expectations. People scream and cry for new advancements in technology, and they're so certain that they're right around the corner. But why? Let's examine the hype, and put it through the reality ringer.

Here's a simple one. Processor speed. The G5 IS DEFINATELY coming out this January. Remember? It was in the cards, right? There were no real indications that it would happen, yet it was the biggest buzz out there. Here's my question: The computer industry is at a virtual stand still. One of the main reasons is that computers' processors far exceed the needs of most users now. Out of 100 probable pro-line Mac users, I'd venture to wager that 2 out of those 100 actually need a 1.6GHz G5 under the hood. For the rest (including myself) it's just overkill. And why market $3,500 computers in the current economy? It's not worth it right now. Focus on the iMac and consumers. The pros are already leaving anyway.

Another thing. Firewire2, and ATA133 hard disk interfaces. When was the last time your Firewire bus got so bogged down that you thought to yourself "damn, I wish there was a faster bus." And ATA133? For what, all of the 133MB/s IDE hard drives out there? Why push the disk bus faster and faster, when IDE disks are still cranking out 30MB/s under ideal conditions?

Discuss!

[Beej]

Hmm, yes...

Welcome to rumor sites.

[voicegy]

Brent Turbo has a point.

Isn't everything fast enough as it is? Heck with it...*I* don't need a G5 Tower to look at my e-mail and cruise por, er, Mac related sites.

My Firewire drive is fast enough, thank you very much.

Those dang IDE disks have reached as far as they can, too.

Let's stop all this madness and be happy with what we have.

...and screw Mars, while we're at it. Wasn't getting to the moon ENOUGH?

[-=AsukA=-]

Here's a simple one. Processor speed. The G5 IS DEFINATELY coming out this January. Remember? It was in the cards, right? There were no real indications that it would happen, yet it was the biggest buzz out there. Here's my question: The computer industry is at a virtual stand still. One of the main reasons is that computers' processors far exceed the needs of most users now. Out of 100 probable pro-line Mac users, I'd venture to wager that 2 out of those 100 actually need a 1.6GHz G5 under the hood. For the rest (including myself) it's just overkill. And why market $3,500 computers in the current economy? It's not worth it right now. Focus on the iMac and consumers. The pros are already leaving anyway.

-Need Smeed, if people want a new "better" computer (as long as its form apple) let them! and yes EVERYONE wants a 1.6 GHz G5, its the newest chip and the fastest desktop to date in the real world. the truth is we dont NEED it but we want it! do you need your T.V? then why do you have it?;)

[DakotaGuy]

hehe yeah that is a good point...hell my brothers Packard Hell Pentium I 166 kills my iMac and iBook pulling down web-pages....maybe its his Cable modem over my 56k dial up that helps....hehehehe....Oh yeah...mine do actually pull up programs and run them a HECK (I'll say HECK again) of a lot better...but still for people like me who use a computer 85% of the time for Internet and Email...how much do we really need...well a better connection speed...but if you saw where I lived....hehe....I am lucky I am even on here....and connecting at 46,000 bps.hehe

[Brent Turbo]

Originally posted by -=AsukA=-
[COLOR=red]-Need Smeed, if people want a new "better" computer (as long as its form apple) let them! and yes EVERYONE wants a 1.6 GHz G5, its the newest chip and the fastest desktop to date in the real world. the truth is we dont NEED it but we want it! do you need your T.V? then why do you have it?;)

But there's a big difference here. Yes, I have a TV, and if I had my way, I'd want a kick-ass tv that's got 3D picture, interactive shows, 2048*1024 resolution and other such odd things. But I don't go around on message boards saying "Sony will totally release a 3D television on January 22nd."

Sure, Apple is going to release bigger and better products in the future, and more power to them. But why do people always expect the NEXT one to be the totally kick-ass, end-all product that will convert the world to Apple? Why is Apple going to make an 800MHz leap (to 1.6Ghz) on THIS line of powermacs, and not the last one?

I guess my point is, Apple fans have built Apple up to be this super-human company that is bound to defy every expectation and just about every law of physics in the process. Everyone is bound to be depressed if this keeps up. Apple will NEVER live up to the expectations of these rumor sites.

[Kethoticus]

...interesting points. I particularly like "The G5 IS DEFINATELY coming out this January. Remember? It was in the cards, right? There were no real indications that it would happen, yet it was the biggest buzz out there."

However, I must take you to task on this Mr. Turbo: "Out of 100 probable pro-line Mac users, I'd venture to wager that 2 out of those 100 actually need a 1.6GHz G5 under the hood. For the rest (including myself) it's just overkill. And why market $3,500 computers in the current economy? It's not worth it right now. Focus on the iMac and consumers. The pros are already leaving anyway."

I do not believe that this is in the platform's best interests, unless Steve sees downsizing and limiting his company's line as being in its best interests. There are lots and lots of professionals out there, and somehow I find it hard to believe that they make up a mere 2% of the total Mac customer base. What you're advocating is that Apple surrender the creative market to Microsoft and the x86 world. "The pros are already leaving anyway." Besides, did you not read the recent story that said that people are buying more expensive machines--even consumers--in spite of current economic conditions? With things like digital video and some people actually wanting to run servers in their own homes, focusing on consumer-level machines only just doesn't make too much sense to me.

I'll tell you this much: if Apple released a 1.6GHz G5--with all of its superior architecture and processing efficiencies--for a base price of $US3,500, that thing would fly off the shelves, creating a consumer market where there was none before for high-end machines.

"Another thing. Firewire2, and ATA133 hard disk interfaces. When was the last time your Firewire bus got so bogged down that you thought to yourself "damn, I wish there was a faster bus." And ATA133? For what, all of the 133MB/s IDE hard drives out there? Why push the disk bus faster and faster, when IDE disks are still cranking out 30MB/s under ideal conditions?"

I agree on the surface of this argument, but when you look at the industry as a whole, most people are going to compare what one company offers with other companies' offerings. Whether or not they need super power today, they may need it tomorrow, and that may weigh in their decision-making.

Also, if Apple does not release higher- and higher-powered hardware periodically, they will appear to be standing still while AMD & Intel continue to leapfrog each other up the gigahertz scale.

For consumers your argument is, in my opinion, valid for the most part. But I do not believe that professionals make up such a small niche of the Mac customer base as to make them irrelevant, and so I do not believe that Apple can afford to fail to offer them competitive solutions.

[Kethoticus]

Originally posted by Brent Turbo


Sure, Apple is going to release bigger and better products in the future, and more power to them. But why do people always expect the NEXT one to be the totally kick-ass, end-all product that will convert the world to Apple? Why is Apple going to make an 800MHz leap (to 1.6Ghz) on THIS line of powermacs, and not the last one?

I guess my point is, Apple fans have built Apple up to be this super-human company that is bound to defy every expectation and just about every law of physics in the process. Everyone is bound to be depressed if this keeps up. Apple will NEVER live up to the expectations of these rumor sites.

Excellent point made here Mr. Turbo. What you're ultimately asking is, why are there rumor sites? What purpose do they serve? I guess the answer is "hope". Some of us put such an intense emotional investment into something like the Mac line of computers that we want to be able to say that it is the best thing out there, fully deserving of our love (and money). So, when someone comes along and tickles our ear with something we want to hear, like "2GHz G5s CONFIRMED to be released next week", we eat it up. It's kind of like faith--you believe what you want to believe based on preconceived notions. Whether it's scientific or religious or computer-based, the principle still applies. And you'll notice that, just like faith (in all its incarnations), when hopes/expectations are not realized, the disappointed people dust themselves off and come back, armed with apologetics and rationalizations.

I love the Mac, and admit to having an emotional preference for the platform. But it's not a preference based on logic, or at least any substantial amount of logic. This is so much the case that, when I finally find a new job, I will probably get a PC AND a new Mac as a way of compromising my logic with my emotion.

[Brent Turbo]

Originally posted by Kethoticus
For consumers your argument is, in my opinion, valid for the most part. But I do not believe that professionals make up such a small niche of the Mac customer base as to make them irrelevant, and so I do not believe that Apple can afford to fail to offer them competitive solutions.

That was a good post for sure. I think I need to clarify my statement about 2 in 100 people needing G5s. Sure, that was a lot less scientific than even a USA Today poll, but I was just reflecting the fact that I know a lot of people who use Macs professionally, including myself. Out of all of these people, the concensus tends to be that our computers are still way ahead of our needs. Most people don't have to wait on their computers for ANYTHING anymore, except downloads, which has nothing to do with what we're talking about.

No, there's no way that Apple is going to abandon the pro market, but one area where people really need the speed is the audio industry, where many are switching to the PC for obvious reasons. You need lots of horse power to run lots of plugins simultaniously, and you can get a dual Athlon 1600 for cheaper than a dual 800 Mac. And this isn't Photoshop, this is the real world, the Athlon destroys the G4 all over the place in non-photoshop applications.

Apple doesn't need the best thing in the world. Apple needs value. Computers that are good for the money. I think the new iMacs are awesome at that. I think the Powermac G4 line falls way short of that.

[Kethoticus]

"Apple doesn't need the best thing in the world. Apple needs value. Computers that are good for the money. I think the new iMacs are awesome at that. I think the Powermac G4 line falls way short of that."

Wow. Someone in these rumormills not prone to flaming or acid-produced fantasies about the next Mac. And to the above quote, let me give you an ayyymen brutha.

[Xapplimatic]

I think your last point Brent Turbo answered itself.. why the squawk about the G5? You already said it yourself.. the iMac line is a good value, and the pro line is now completely not.. (because of the iMac).. HENCE THE "NEED" FOR A G5.. Because that difference in power is what people will need to justify laying out another couple thousand greenbacks for wether they are "real" pros, or just people who want the pro gear because it suits their need to be the biggest boy on the block (ego massage) so they can run Super Ultimate Blood-Edition Doom 5 at 250 fps..

As to why a rumor site? I thought everyone on here knew why... because we're all (at some time or level) bored out of our gord during the day (or night) and want to know what's new out there in the world.. things that are, things that have been, and things that have not yet come to pass.. :D

[Kethoticus]

"...things that are, things that have been, and things that have not yet come to pass.."

Dude, rumors are none of these things. They usually turn out to be woefully inadequate compared to the reality. But the bored out of our gord part, that was funny ;-)

[Brent Turbo]

Originally posted by Xapplimatic
As to why a rumor site? I thought everyone on here knew why... because we're all (at some time or level) bored out of our gord during the day (or night) and want to know what's new out there in the world.. things that are, things that have been, and things that have not yet come to pass.. :D

Oh yeah, I totally see why there should be rumors sites. I'm here, aren't I? So I at least know why I'm here. Of course people WANT a G5. I sure would just for the hell of it. But what's the point of stroking these rumors when there isn't anything to back them up except for a couple of "insiders" who e-mail rumors sites with misinformation?

Real rumors are fine and dandy, but why dilude yourself with the ones that are rediculous, like the G5. There was no evidence whatsoever that the G5 was even within a year of completion, but it was hot talk. That's what I don't get.

[mac15]

its called a rumour site

[sparkleytone]

www.macrumors.com {----

haha you used the word SCIENTIFIC to modify POLL...riiight

screw the economy, its not gonna get any better unless people are convinced to spend their money on products they need/reallyreallywant

[Brent Turbo]

Originally posted by sparkleytone
haha you used the word SCIENTIFIC to modify POLL...riiight

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic with me or toward me. I did, however, take the Pespi Challenge way back when, and I chose Coke Classic. If it's in the can, I'll have a Coke. From the fountain I prefer Pepsi. How's THAT for a rumor!

[sparkleytone]

nah no sarcasm towards you at all. just towards the idea of science being involved with polling. i have a great stat for you guys :)

93.67% of all statistics are made up.

i guess we all have learned alot from the era of politics by numbers.

[eyelikeart]

a lot of people....not all....get their expectations so high up it's ridiculous....

and when they aren't met, they bitch and complain and say how bad Apple is doing....

people expect Apple to blow their expectations because they make it that way....

[networkman]

i have worked for a major svr 150 company and they really only had a small handful of high end graphics professionals and in monterey, just south of the region, there are no high end graphics techs i see as a field tech

so when brent turbo says that the high end mac users who can use a g5 right now is at 2 percent, that may even be an overestimation...come one folks, look around...i macs and ibooks are everywhere...and there are scads of g4 users who do internet, email, word stuff, and light graphics only

thanks brent turbo for bringing common sense to the board

-jef

[networkman]

also, notice i said graphics techs instead of graphic artists...that is because the pc techs can't fix macs most of the time and the artists ususally end up having to fix it themselves

only graphics professionals are treated with less respect than the computer gearheads in a corporation...when you fix someone's network or computer, they are not happy since that accountant, secretary, or ceo is mad as hell to have to be using computers and/or windows in the first place

btw...sorry to burst your bubble if you are a graphics student in college

one of my friends who is 40 and decided to change careers to become a graphics pro put it this way after he got his certification and college degree in graphics..."you know what it seems like to me, not art - you are a secretary with an inbox and an outbox and you deal with images instead of words and sntences"

BINGO, welcome to the real world buddy...what did you friggin expect? picasso? basquiat? pollock? new york one man shows?

get real and get photoshop, by then after you are a "pro", there will not be one ounce of artistic talent left in your overworked bones

[Timothy]

No, there's no way that Apple is going to abandon the pro market, but one area where people really need the speed is the audio industry, where many are switching to the PC for obvious reasons. You need lots of horse power to run lots of plugins simultaniously, and you can get a dual Athlon 1600 for cheaper than a dual 800 Mac. And this isn't Photoshop, this is the real world, the Athlon destroys the G4 all over the place in non-photoshop applications.

Haven't you really just answered your own question here? The Mac is not as fast at many things as is the PC now. And, since the technology to make our macs faster DOES exist, we expect Apple to give that technology to us. There is no reason that EVERY component of our computer shouldn't be as fast or faster than that which is offered in the PC world...and so we wait for Apple, not to exceed our expectations, but to meet them.

As you stated yourself in the above quote...the Athlon destroys the G4. And yet, most pro mac users are doing work that requires faster machines than the work being done by most PC users. I do work in Audio, Video, and Graphics...I am frequently waiting for my machine to catch up. It's not that I expect Apple to release anything that exceeds the laws of nature, I just expect them to keep pace with the rest of the PC industry.

If Motorola can't provide that, then Apple needs to chart a different course...

[networkman]

you seem to be high end though

do you think most graphics pros are in your "waiting" predicament?

i have worked with dozens of pro graphics people in and out of the silicon valley and i never hear anything about speed complaints...but those people did print and web and didn't do audio or video though

[eyelikeart]

Speed is a factor in streamlining the workflow for many professional users....but not the end albeit....

I think, for many, we use Macs because Mac OS runs so much smoother with applications and multi-tasking than Windows is able to....

as for speed complaints....I use a G4 400 tower for production work...at any time I can have up to 7 applications opened at one time....going back and forth between them....often even having 2-3 different tasks being performed at once between multiple applications.....sure I'd love to get a faster Mac....but the 400 does everything I need it to...

maybe it's time to reanalyze our wants and needs....? :cool:

[networkman]

...and let the pc makers fufill our needs while apple fulfills our lusts

[grrr223]

Why do we expect Apple to fulfill our expectations? Becuase it usually does. Admittedly, I am new to this forum, but how many people would have expected Apple to take the processor from it's top-of-the-line pro models and put it into it's little kid iMac? (which I now want)? Not me. And now that they have made that drastic move, they must now do something big to reestablish their pro line. this is why I predict ict G4s or G5s orsomething, I don't care, that is a lot faster than 1 Ghz in the next month or 2. But that is all that I care about, i didn't really get too hyped up over the jan. 22nd thing, since there was very little, if any hard evidence of ANYTHING happening on that date.

[Falleron]

Sorry to ask this question in here! I know its not relevant but there is no point in starting a new thread.

What is the date for NewYork Expo?? Cheers

[BiG™]

Apple used to break everyones expectations easily, because people didn't expect much...computers were still fairly new and we thought 'Wow, a 40MB hard drive! I'll never fill that up!'. Now we have a better concept of what computers have the possiblity of being. And we all love Apple so we want Apple to be the first there. The thing is, we, as computer users, are able to see farther into the distance than the technology can be developed. So lets try to applaud Apple for what it is doing now. It was inevitable that the iMac would be released with a G$. The only feasible choice besides that was to release a G3 with a faster clock speed than the Pro line G4s and that would have caused revolt. Also Apple needed a G4 in their consumer level products to really make OS X shine to consumers....

Enjoy what is here now. Anticipate what may come in the future. Don't cry when it doesn't. How many times more has the PC market failed at meeting expectations that Apple? Five, ten times more?

[germanknee]

Apple no longer meets my expectations; or rather, I have lowered my expectations in Apple. Take, for example, the new iMac. Yeah, it's sweet, and it's got a G4, but look at the rest of the system. 100mhz system bus, PC100 SDRAM? This is OLD technology. Even on the PowerMac the system bus is only 133mhz, and it uses PC133 SDRAM. Intel's socket478 motherboards have 400mhz sytem buses, and they support DDR SDRAM running at 333mhz. AMD is close behind Intel in this area. Apple says that it has better overal system performance. How can this be true? I find it hard to beleive that software/hardware integration can make up for the huge gap between Apple and Window's machines.

Macs have great performance in graphics and 3d applications, but the Windows PCs are neck and neck with it in most parts of these areas. My G4 400 AGP is fine for creating all my graphics and web design work using photoshop, illustrator, flash, formz, ultradev, and others. The problem comes when viewing the finsished product. For example a dual G4 800 w/ nvidia geforce 2 mx can't even view many flash websites at proper speeds, yet less expensive, lower end Window's PC's with sucky worse cards can veiw them perfectly. Also, take a look at iTunes (or iTunes2); the previously mentioned G4 system can't even run the visualizer at 30 fps in medium size! What is going on!? Another thing lacking is it's ability to play compressed video, even using dvd codecs specifically for Macintoshes, with any degree of competancy. It just can't be done in real time. But on PC's from even 2 years ago, one can run them perfectly - in real time. Scrolling, window dragging, and window resizing are all far better on Windows machines.

Thus, we see the need for increased system bus speeds, DDR RAM, and insane mhz increases in the Macs. And I want a G5 (fat chance).

Apple better pull through at Macworld Tokyo this march...but wait... they won't. So why should I get my hopes up?

[germanknee]

Oh, and another thing, look how cheap most PCs are compared to Macs.

[grrr223]

I'm not denying any of your performance claims of PCs these days, but I just want to share a little example with you. I have recently gotten a job at my school's IT dept. I spend most of my day setting up people's new computers and reconfiguring them so they retain their old eudora and netscape settings and all that. In the two weeks that I have been there, I spent as much time on the 2 PC upgrades that I've performed with the other, more experienced tech guy as I have on the 10 or so Mac upgrades. The biggest headache is that most PCs these days don't have firewire ports on them (USB 2.0 isn't all it's cracked up to be either). On a mac, you can start up the old computer in "target disk" mode by holding down the T key and it appears on the other computer's desktop as a firewire hard drive. As opposed to the PCs where oyu either have to tranfer it through the network to a server and back which takes all ****ing day, or literally get out a screwdriver rip the hard drive out of the old machine and plug it into the new one. The PC may be faster at things, I don't really care if doing things on it at all is a headache. I haven't started my G3 450 running OS X 10.1 in over a week, and the few programs that have frozen up on me are all betas, and none of these required force quits affected anything. I buy Apple products, not because of any one feature or speed or anythign like that (although they do have them) it's the whole package, Apple just knows how to get my computer to work for me better than any other company that exists.

[germanknee]

Yes 10.1 is excellent, so is classic. I love both. Apple is the best when it comes to the software/OS end of the computer, and that's the main thing. That's why I use a Mac, but can you imagine if it could meet my previously described performance claims? I'm convinced that Apple will catch up in most areas they lag behind (hardware wise) the PC in. My main concern is the CPU. The probability of Motorolla making chips better than Intel and AMD is shady. They got tripped up on the 500mhz, what's to say they won't hit another barrier? Anyway, I just want more power to run the apps and view the files I use so frequently.

[jamcouto]

That's simple!

Because we all know that they are the only ones that can do it as we wish. :)

iRegards

José Augusto Macedo do Couto
Porto
PORTUGAL

[Choppaface]

10.1 is nice to play around in, but to get THE work done, 9.x is the way to go (personally 9.1 has been my fav). maybe when 10.5 comes out we will see our dreams of today realized. in the mean time, it's constructive to have some patience, and get some work done on your machine.

[grrr223]

10.2 looks pretty cool, check out the videos posted in the main macrumors page