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mellofello
Sep 9, 2013, 10:34 PM
Myself and a core group of my buddies are all "gadget guys". We all are the demographic that apple used to covet. 18-40 year old guys who are creative types with enough disposable income to have the hottest new thing. Sometime around the 4s apple list the race to be the most cutting edge phone. Android is leaps and bounds better for guys like us. It just does more. Anytime I get bored I can find a cool little feature to enable on my phone, and it really has become nearly as capable as my macbook air.

Apple is no longer designing phones for us. They are making phones for everyone. A few years ago paying $30 per month for data on your phone was a crazy concept reserved only for the affluent.

The only problem is that gadget guys are the tastemakers of the world. Our ambivalence to iOS will eventually catch up with them.

It is hard to feel excited about that new Iphone when the dorky guy in the office is playing games on his 5.7 inch phone with a ps3 controller. Then plugging it into his Sony car stereo with full mirroring, all the while torrenting the last season of game of thrones.

So IMO the 5s is enough to move some units, but apple has lost the gadget guys who brought them envouge in the first place, and that is a big issue since all my iphone wielding friends get green with envy when they see the crazy stuff I'm doing with my note 2.



cynics
Sep 9, 2013, 10:42 PM
I never really considered the iPhone (or any Apple product for that matter) geared toward "gadget guys/gals". Not saying you can't do geeky type stuff on them but when it comes to the stuff you mentioned (ps3 controllers and torrents) Android has always been in a league of its own.

I think the jailbreak community has been helping guys like you (and me) stay content. I keep a Android tablet around when I feel the urge do mess around with things like that. And I use my Apple products to do what they were designed to do.

mellofello
Sep 9, 2013, 10:49 PM
Should qualify this by saying that I own 3 current macs, an apple TV and have owned every generation of iPad, and Iphone(waited in line for first Iphone).

For years I was a apple evangalist, and started using their computers in 1999 when their were real trade offs over windows.

They were always a year or 2 ahead of the competition. Leaders in the industry. Now they are lagging.

I personally sold apple 10-20 iphones over the years converting sceptic feature phone Luddites.

The same thing has happened with android since switching. I probably converted 4-5 people to the note once they saw what kind of tricks you can do with it.

I love apple and really want to come back to iOS someday. But there is no lust left in the Iphone IMO.

Michael CM1
Sep 9, 2013, 10:55 PM
Wow. So Android is better for using a video game console controller (made by Sony even) and watching videos illegally in a way that keeps the creators from making money off their work.

Tell me more about these killer Android features I'm missing. You might also want to tell me which version of Android you're pimping because the manufacturers are so good about pushing updates.

It's called MacRumors. You're in the iPhone forum. So we get that you're trolling. If you want to talk about how awesome Android is, I'm sure there's a website or 80 for that.

adam044
Sep 9, 2013, 10:58 PM
I'm not even going to read that post but apple isn't treading water with more cash in the bank than anyone

bozzykid
Sep 9, 2013, 11:01 PM
I'm not even going to read that post but apple isn't treading water with more cash in the bank than anyone

I don't think they are treading water either... But, how much money they have in the bank has little to do with what the original poster is talking about.

yth
Sep 9, 2013, 11:11 PM
I don't know anything about smartphones, so please help me out. What kinds of things can Android do that iOS can't? Playing videogames with a PS3 controller is a little gimmicky. Does Android run something like Linux that I can install anything I want on? Is it a completely open system?

RichardC300
Sep 9, 2013, 11:16 PM
I must agree with you. I only stay with iOS because everybody has iOS, so it's more convenient with iMessage and all.

11bE5
Sep 9, 2013, 11:17 PM
I don't think they are treading water either... But, how much money they have in the bank has little to do with what the original poster is talking about.

Strike this post I put foot in mouth :) ^ he is right lol

cardinalryan
Sep 9, 2013, 11:28 PM
Myself and a core group of my buddies are all "gadget guys". We all are the demographic that apple used to covet. 18-40 year old guys who are creative types with enough disposable income to have the hottest new thing. Sometime around the 4s apple list the race to be the most cutting edge phone. Android is leaps and bounds better for guys like us. It just does more. Anytime I get bored I can find a cool little feature to enable on my phone, and it really has become nearly as capable as my macbook air.

Apple is no longer designing phones for us. They are making phones for everyone. A few years ago paying $30 per month for data on your phone was a crazy concept reserved only for the affluent.

The only problem is that gadget guys are the tastemakers of the world. Our ambivalence to iOS will eventually catch up with them.

It is hard to feel excited about that new Iphone when the dorky guy in the office is playing games on his 5.7 inch phone with a ps3 controller. Then plugging it into his Sony car stereo with full mirroring, all the while torrenting the last season of game of thrones.

So IMO the 5s is enough to move some units, but apple has lost the gadget guys who brought them envouge in the first place, and that is a big issue since all my iphone wielding friends get green with envy when they see the crazy stuff I'm doing with my note 2.

Some people call this trolling, some call it the truth. I believe it's the latter. I'm continually stunned by fanboys of either side. I'm a fanboy of what's best which means I was an Apple fanboy all the way up to the 4 and an Android fanboy since. There's one thing that is not debatable right now and that is that Android is far superior at this point in time. Maybe that will change in the future, but with Apple basically giving up on its customers and ceasing to innovate, I have my doubts,

For those of you still in love with Apple products, enjoy tomorrow, and I mean that sincerely.

zbarvian
Sep 9, 2013, 11:34 PM
Some people call this trolling, some call it the truth. I believe it's the latter. I'm continually stunned by fanboys of either side. I'm a fanboy of what's best which means I was an Apple fanboy all the way up to the 4 and an Android fanboy since. There's one thing that is not debatable right now and that is that Android is far superior at this point in time. Maybe that will change in the future, but with Apple basically giving up on its customers and ceasing to innovate, I have my doubts,

For those of you still in love with Apple products, enjoy tomorrow, and I mean that sincerely.

Kinda subjective, no? Preferring iOS isn't wrong.

srsub3
Sep 9, 2013, 11:34 PM
if you don't like apple products, please don't show up in apple forums.... it seems that the lack of cool status of your phones is preventing you from having a normal life!:D

zipster
Sep 9, 2013, 11:40 PM
I hope the leaks are wrong.

The 5C is a complete waste if it's just a crippled 5 in a polycarbonate. And the 5S looks to be completely boring.

Before the 4S, we were all convinced the 5 was going to be released and it had a tapered/teardrop design.... right up until Cook announced the 4S.

But we'll see.

ahfu25
Sep 9, 2013, 11:48 PM
if you don't like apple products, please don't show up in apple forums.... it seems that the lack of cool status of your phones is preventing you from having a normal life!:D

Again...more and more people like you ruin these forums. Even on Xda..SO what if its called mac rumors. Its a website on the internet where every ones opinion should be respected...but wait its the internet...lol. I can say I've had every mac book, ipad and iphone ever released. Then I say how I dislike the iphone 5s and how I think the samsung galaxy s4 or note 3 is a better device, and you guys come bashing people for it. And yet they've been more 'Loyal' or "fanboys" longer than half the newbies on here. In my opinion the Galaxy S4 is a better device all around than the iPhone 5. The 5S and Note 3 I'll compare whe I get my hands on them. For now I give the benefit of the doubt to the Note 3. And it has nothing to do with screen size!!

EM2013
Sep 9, 2013, 11:56 PM
Some people call this trolling, some call it the truth. I believe it's the latter. I'm continually stunned by fanboys of either side. I'm a fanboy of what's best which means I was an Apple fanboy all the way up to the 4 and an Android fanboy since. There's one thing that is not debatable right now and that is that Android is far superior at this point in time. Maybe that will change in the future, but with Apple basically giving up on its customers and ceasing to innovate, I have my doubts,


Why is it "not debatable" that it's "far superior?" Just cause you like it more doesn't make it superior, just your opinion.

Rufuss Sewell
Sep 10, 2013, 12:01 AM
Something else happened right around the release of the 4S.

I'm looking forward to getting the 5S, and to me ALL of the Android screens look terrible. Like over saturated vomit. But I must admit that the 2 year cycle is too slow. The 5S will pretty much look like my 2010 iphone 4. Kinda sad. It's also extremely arrogant to ignore the fact that the vast majority of people prefer a bigger phone with a bigger battery. At least give us two screen size options. These are NO LONGER PHONES!! They're pocket computers and they should be treated that way.

That said, I'm invested in iOS and Android just looks absolutely horrid. All that crap you can do with torrents and PS3 controllers can be done to jailbroken iPhones so get real please. If you're a tweaker you'll jailbreak, no biggie. So I'll grab a 5S.

Rest in peace Steve!

12vElectronics
Sep 10, 2013, 12:01 AM
I'm a tech guy. But I'm very picky about what electronics I buy. The iPhone is perfect at what it does and that's why I'm sticking with it forever. I'm not willing to give up the flawless execution of the iPhone because I want to 'tinker' with gimmicky android features.

Technarchy
Sep 10, 2013, 12:01 AM
Apple has a philosophy and business model that we should all be familiar with by now.

If it doesn't work for you, then move on.

mellofello
Sep 10, 2013, 12:05 AM
Again...more and more people like you ruin these forums. Even on Xda..SO what if its called mac rumors. Its a website on the internet where every ones opinion should be respected...but wait its the internet...lol. I can say I've had every mac book, ipad and iphone ever released. Then I say how I dislike the iphone 5s and how I think the samsung galaxy s4 or note 3 is a better device, and you guys come bashing people for it. And yet they've been more 'Loyal' or "fanboys" longer than half the newbies on here. In my opinion the Galaxy S4 is a better device all around than the iPhone 5. The 5S and Note 3 I'll compare whe I get my hands on them. For now I give the benefit of the doubt to the Note 3. And it has nothing to do with screen size!!

Amen. I am not a troll or a hater. I meant this post more as a dear john letter to apple. It isn't too late. If apple diversified its line up and offered a broader range of phones, sped up its release dates, and loosened a few restrictions on iOS development higher end users would come back.

Apple has transitioned from making the highest end hardware on the market to milquetoast comoditised phones.

They can do better, and everyone knows it. But then what incremental update will they sell for Iphone 6?

Reaching lower with the 5c is the worst thing I have heard in a while. Why not shoot for the stars with a Iphone pro cost be damned cram everything and the kitchen sink in. People will buy it.

Morrius
Sep 10, 2013, 12:11 AM
It's also extremely arrogant to ignore the fact that the vast majority of people prefer a bigger phone with a bigger battery. At least give us two screen size options. These are NO LONGER PHONES!! They're pocket computers and they should be treated that way.


Source? And we do have screen size options. It's called the iPad.

Gizmodo explains it pretty well:

"The iPhone has been in a design holding pattern for the last several years. That's not a knock; it's just savvy marketing. The iPhone 4S looked exactly like the iPhone 4. The iPhone 5 looked different from those, but not so much that you couldn't very clearly identify it as an iPhone. The iPhone 5S will look exactly like the iPhone 5. And so on.

Apple keeps its iPhone hardware consistent because to do anything else would be insane. Six years after its release, it remains one of the most popular, pervasive consumer products of all time. If your product is universally loved and insanely profitable, there's little incentive to radically alter it once a decade, much less every year. Until people stop buying iPhones, all Apple needs to do is make enough tweaks to feel current. That's what it's done."

OP, I hate to tell you this, but "everyone" is a much more lucrative market than gadget aficionados.

Ajones330
Sep 10, 2013, 12:23 AM
Again...more and more people like you ruin these forums. Even on Xda..SO what if its called mac rumors. Its a website on the internet where every ones opinion should be respected...but wait its the internet...lol. I can say I've had every mac book, ipad and iphone ever released. Then I say how I dislike the iphone 5s and how I think the samsung galaxy s4 or note 3 is a better device, and you guys come bashing people for it. And yet they've been more 'Loyal' or "fanboys" longer than half the newbies on here. In my opinion the Galaxy S4 is a better device all around than the iPhone 5. The 5S and Note 3 I'll compare whe I get my hands on them. For now I give the benefit of the doubt to the Note 3. And it has nothing to do with screen size!!

I've yet to hear something innovative about android. Sounds like people are upset that Apple is not considered the new cool and everyone is using it. I have the 5 and a Galaxy S4 and use both everyday. If smart view or air view is the innovation everyone is talking about then people have that definition all wrong. These gimmicky features are just that gimmicks. The Note 3 has ton of horses under the hood but how does it handle when you get it on the track.

MigsVuitton
Sep 10, 2013, 12:37 AM
I've tried android twice and went back to iPhone. My latest attempt was the HTC One which I really liked. Mostly for the larger screen. Unfortunately I rely heavy on iMessages and the ability to copy and paste photos onto iMessages and emails and have somewhat large jpegs sent that way. Apple does simple tasks really really well. I do however want a bigger screen.

ahfu25
Sep 10, 2013, 12:41 AM
I've yet to hear something innovative about android. Sounds like people are upset that Apple is not considered the new cool and everyone is using it. I have the 5 and a Galaxy S4 and use both everyday. If smart view or air view is the innovation everyone is talking about then people have that definition all wrong. These gimmicky features are just that gimmicks. The Note 3 has ton of horses under the hood but how does it handle when you get it on the track.

For me the Galaxy S4 has more features that I use on a daily basis. Only thing superior on the iphone 5 in my opinion is itunes and the sound I get with the basic headphones that both phones supply but for that I use my ipod classic. I dont use s voice or siri. The apps I use are equal on both devices. My iphone 5 is jailbroken and my galaxy s4 is rooted. I have my s4 on stock software and just removed some bloat. I've come to use love my S4 more. This is just MY OPINION! lol

Rufuss Sewell
Sep 10, 2013, 12:42 AM
Source? And we do have screen size options. It's called the iPad.

Source: I tour the country in a rock band for a living. We play in clubs with 300-1000 people a night. I spend a good 2 hours a night signing autographs and taking pictures. It's a wide spectrum of people from little kids to old rockers in every city across the US. In 2010 it was all iPhone. Now the VAST majority are Android. They ALL brag about the screen size. Several people laugh and ridicule the tiny crappy iPhone screen. It's hundreds of people a night, not just my immediate friends. I disagree with them. To me iOS is worth putting up with the out of date screen size.

I'm guessing Steve would've realized the trend and made it appear as though Apple created the 5" screen. Cook is stuck.

iPad? I have an iPad. My personal computer needs to fit in my pocket.

Michael CM1
Sep 10, 2013, 12:45 AM
Something else happened right around the release of the 4S.

I'm looking forward to getting the 5S, and to me ALL of the Android screens look terrible. Like over saturated vomit. But I must admit that the 2 year cycle is too slow. The 5S will pretty much look like my 2010 iphone 4. Kinda sad. It's also extremely arrogant to ignore the fact that the vast majority of people prefer a bigger phone with a bigger battery. At least give us two screen size options. These are NO LONGER PHONES!! They're pocket computers and they should be treated that way.

That said, I'm invested in iOS and Android just looks absolutely horrid. All that crap you can do with torrents and PS3 controllers can be done to jailbroken iPhones so get real please. If you're a tweaker you'll jailbreak, no biggie. So I'll grab a 5S.

Rest in peace Steve!

About half of all iPhones sold worldwide are the iPhone 4 and 4S. I'd say this debunks the "vast majority" of people wanting a bigger phone as gospel. Between bigger and cheaper, they choose cheaper. Hence the iPhone 5C.

If research indicated most people wanted a 6-inch iPhone, there would be a 6-inch iPhone.

Rufuss Sewell
Sep 10, 2013, 12:48 AM
Does anyone here really think the general population prefers the 4" screen to a 4.8 or 5"?

Apple is severely late to the game. I think they will correct with the 6 and offer two sizes. And I'll stick with them. But Apple continues to sell phones in SPITE of the tiny out of date screen. Not because of it.

Spacial
Sep 10, 2013, 12:51 AM
I don't agree that they are treading water. Apple is doing what they do best. Selling products that generate high gross profits, as well as generating lots of buzz based on Apples special relationships with selected sources like Walt Mossberg of All Things Digital / Wall St Journal. He and David Pouge are always given products in advance to assure his glowing reviews make a great early impression on potential buyers. Apple is very clever.

Michael CM1
Sep 10, 2013, 12:54 AM
After getting my hands (hand?) on my ant's new iPad mini, I buy the one-hand argument much more. I'm typing this with my iPad up against the side of a sofa. I also realize the extra weight of the regular iPad now.

I also use my iPhone plenty to read news articles while at restaurants, so I prefer to not use two hands. I would like a larger screen for bigger buttons, but I wonder if I would miss the one-handed use.

I'd say its all a toss-up because of how different people like us are from the crowd that really really won't care about the 5S having an A7 instead of an A6. That crowd buys A LOT of phones.

Nevaborn
Sep 10, 2013, 01:06 AM
Trolls suck so much.

Theyre just lazy really, saying they can do so much more on Android. You can do lots on an iOS device, and frankly promoting a gimick like conmecting to a controller is not a seller at all.

atlatnesiti
Sep 10, 2013, 02:04 AM
Trolls suck so much.

Theyre just lazy really, saying they can do so much more on Android. You can do lots on an iOS device, and frankly promoting a gimick like conmecting to a controller is not a seller at all.
... or promoting a gimmick like finger print scanner and dual flash, because incapable to design and produce brand new iPhone design every year ;)

abraxian
Sep 10, 2013, 02:12 AM
Apple can tread water all they like, Android based phones are in the sink.

Seriously. All my family changed their phones about 2 months ago. 2 android based devices and a WP.

Get ready to see 2 Galaxy S4s and a Nokia Lumia 920 on eBay :p

There's just so many half baked ideas in Android. They can't commit to a single design and the lack of fluidity or consistency makes the user experience so, so dull and flawed.

betabeta
Sep 10, 2013, 02:22 AM
Hey Apple don't you see you are barely staying a float? please someone send them a life raft of mojo so they can innovate! Silly Apple, you are only going to make 10 billion in profit next quarter, and what they heck good is that? The 5s is just more of the same, why don't you change the OS, or add a better processor, maybe upgrade the camera, better battery, hey do something.

I wave my hand in front of my iPhone 5 tiny little screen and nothing! and just the other day I was watching a video (which I could barley see it was so small) and I looked away and the dang thing just kept playing!@#:mad:

Come on Apple Innovate! if you do maybe you can make profit like the real innovators, obviously nobody likes your tiny non innovative old crap.:D

robanga
Sep 10, 2013, 02:44 AM
Apple is doing very well in profit and financially in generally. These constant everything is doomed threads are pretty funny. Everyone wants to be the oracle that said ....see i called this two years ago, i knew.

"Gadget guys"are no longer their target market . Its the general market. Women, consumers in China. They have a massive iTunes business and apps business. Of course they are not going to beat Android in overall share, Android is made by many from Amazon to Xiaomi, many form factors and in many prices. Heck Windows phone is #2 in some countries.

Do i think they need a 5 inch phone, sure - and i bet by the end of NEXT year they will have it. That is not the end all though.

matttye
Sep 10, 2013, 02:52 AM
I'm immune to these kinds of threads now. There's one every year, and Apple usually beats all predictions and previous records.

Italianblend
Sep 10, 2013, 02:55 AM
I've tried android twice and went back to iPhone. My latest attempt was the HTC One which I really liked. Mostly for the larger screen. Unfortunately I rely heavy on iMessages and the ability to copy and paste photos onto iMessages and emails and have somewhat large jpegs sent that way. Apple does simple tasks really really well. I do however want a bigger screen.

I'm wondering, you can't send a picture as a text or an email with andriod? That sucks. I'm considering a switch to andriod but I never realized that.

zedzded
Sep 10, 2013, 02:57 AM
Apple is doing very well in profit and financially in generally. These constant everything is doomed threads are pretty funny.

If Apple started to struggle with Iphones sales, I don't think that would have much bearing on the financial state of the company. Even if Apple produced substandard and inferior phones for the next 3 - 5 years, people will still buy them, they don't need to innovate or produce high spec phones, they don't even need to market the Iphone. I think sales figures will steadily drop over the next few years and then flatten out.

Skika
Sep 10, 2013, 03:17 AM
muh screen size! muh torrents!


inuvashion!

tdream
Sep 10, 2013, 03:25 AM
About half of all iPhones sold worldwide are the iPhone 4 and 4S. I'd say this debunks the "vast majority" of people wanting a bigger phone as gospel. Between bigger and cheaper, they choose cheaper. Hence the iPhone 5C.

If research indicated most people wanted a 6-inch iPhone, there would be a 6-inch iPhone.

That's hardly conclusive evidence that people prefer small screens. Econ 101 would dictate people prefer the price of these phones. If there was a phone with a bigger screen at the same price as a 4 or 4S they would choose the bigger screen.

Research shows people want a 6 inch iPhone because Apple are getting off their asses and testing it http://www.macrumors.com/2013/09/05/apple-testing-prototype-iphones-with-six-inch-screens-not-expected-this-year/

mellofello
Sep 10, 2013, 03:59 AM
Microsoft, black berry, and nokia were complacent a decade ago. They could easily just coast along on their existing properties. What could possibly go wrong?

mellofello
Sep 10, 2013, 07:41 AM
http://i.imgur.com/HDbiMdb.jpg

jakeOSX
Sep 10, 2013, 07:58 AM
i see these posts often. and as a gadget geek myself, let me ask OP a question: what is it you think the iphone is missing?

mostly I have heard 'screen size', which to me is asthetic. someone may want a 6-inch phone. i don't. so when you say they aren't innovating, then what are you asking? what are you thinking that the iphone should have?

personally, i think the front facing camera is a crime, it should be at least as good as the iphone4's camera at this point. but that's not innovation, that's just preference.

is it because the body looks the same? we need to change the appearance every few months to be 'innovative'? i think the iphone 4 was amazing looking, and prefer it over the 5. but, again, preference.

here is something i would like. make a 'documents' gallery, like we currently have a photo gallery. let me keep PDF's, docs, pages files, whatever, there. and then let me access them at will by any other app. i don't need a file system, i just need to be able to edit something in my dropbox.

is THAT innovation? i doubt it. that's just applying one idea to another file type.

let Siri work better between commands. Siri, what time is the football game tonight? 'Redskins and Eagles play at 7.' Please email that to my dad. "what would you like to say to your dad?" connect those two so she knows i mean 'that' is the search she just did.

not sure that is innovation either.

so, rambling message aside, i ask again. what innovations are you searching for? what has been inovated elsewhere that you are looking for?

ps. controller API's are in iOS7, so i suspect that will show up soon.

bp1000
Sep 10, 2013, 08:09 AM
i agree OP but isn't being a gadget man always like this.

The iPhone was awesome when it launched and it got better pretty much each release.

Hardware evolution is much quicker than software so we have plateaued on our devices. I'm sure we will see NFC interaction and payment in the near future but apple isn't going to put this on until there is actually a demand to use it (i.e. shops have the technology to take payment, banks etc)...


I'm also the opposite of this post. I'm a "gadget man" too, i love messing with electronics, Android appealed to me because of the customisation and personalisation of their oS. HTC and Samsung have always tried to have a faster processor, more memory and bigger screen in their phones... they seem to wait until apple release their iphone then just release something bigger and better.

I began to realise this isn't really the ideal vision a gadget man looks for. When i bought the iphone i fell in love with its simplicity and attention to detail, everything has pretty much been thought through and anything missing usually quickly fixed or added. Now Android does have elements of this but everything seems thrown together without much thought.

DravenGSX
Sep 10, 2013, 10:17 AM
I agree with the OP here. I have been a staunch iPhone advocate since the first release and have upgraded every year since. I have spent a lot of time with jailbreaking and customizing on the phones throughout the years. I am also a "gadget guy" and an engineer in the tech industry.

I'm, frankly bored with them now. While I think that the jump to the iPhone 5 from the 4S was the most dramatic yet, it just wasn't quite enough. I don't know what the answer is or what they need to innovate to make it more interesting.

There are a few reasons why I haven't jumped to the HTC One already. First is the screen size. One handed operation is important for me. I don't want a 5" screen and I don't understand why anybody else wants to hold a phablet up to their ear to talk. These things are still phones! The second is that I'm already invested in the Apple ecosystem and share things like PhotoStream and iMessage with my family. I would miss that terribly.

Hopefully Apple has something for us today that nobody can see coming ... but I doubt it.

Kurfer
Sep 10, 2013, 10:21 AM
After getting my hands (hand?) on my ant's new iPad mini, I buy the one-hand argument much more. I'm typing this with my iPad up against the side of a sofa. I also realize the extra weight of the regular iPad now.

I also use my iPhone plenty to read news articles while at restaurants, so I prefer to not use two hands. I would like a larger screen for bigger buttons, but I wonder if I would miss the one-handed use.

I'd say its all a toss-up because of how different people like us are from the crowd that really really won't care about the 5S having an A7 instead of an A6. That crowd buys A LOT of phones.

If you're complaining about the weight of an iPad you need to do less Internet and more exercise. Seriously get your ass to the gym and lift some heavy ass weights that's embarrassing you should be ashamed of yourself. It's time to box up those my little ponies and become a man.

suprakc
Sep 10, 2013, 10:30 AM
No there not. You're jealous because you just signed a new contract with some lame galaxy device and your looking for relief.

Fireblade
Sep 10, 2013, 10:32 AM
"S" stands for "S"ame.

takeshi74
Sep 10, 2013, 11:32 AM
Apple is no longer designing phones for us. They are making phones for everyone.
They always have made phones for everyone. Nothing has changed except your perception. If they couldn't market to the masses then they would actually be treading water.

Microsoft, black berry, and nokia were complacent a decade ago. They could easily just coast along on their existing properties. What could possibly go wrong?
...and that's a tired old argument made against every company out there on every discussion forum out there. Where are the numbers that back your claim that Apple is treading water? So far all we have is hyperbole and your preference.

mantan
Sep 10, 2013, 11:34 AM
It's called 'feeding the monster'.

Apple is more concerned (rightfully so for their shareholders) in continuing to find new markets to sell products. The idea that the iPhone is a 'special' device as the OP suggested is laughable. Apple was more interested in hooking kids (and mom/dad) with 8 gig iPhones and (now the 5c)...it's volume, not niche.

While the OP and his group of buddies may not be interested - my 16 year old daughter and all theri freinds can't wait to get a 5c. Apple sees is things in terms of units sold...not just trying to appeal to a 'hip' audience....

intentional
Sep 10, 2013, 11:41 AM
Just think. In about 200 days from now, this iPhone, everyone will have forgotten about.

Preed08
Sep 10, 2013, 12:09 PM
LOL at dude saying hes a musician, yet uses android ...:rolleyes:
ANy musician worth their beans would know that the iOS is a killer mobile music solution..

Hankster
Sep 10, 2013, 12:22 PM
Myself and a core group of my buddies are all "gadget guys". We all are the demographic that apple used to covet. 18-40 year old guys who are creative types with enough disposable income to have the hottest new thing. Sometime around the 4s apple list the race to be the most cutting edge phone. Android is leaps and bounds better for guys like us. It just does more. Anytime I get bored I can find a cool little feature to enable on my phone, and it really has become nearly as capable as my macbook air.

Apple is no longer designing phones for us. They are making phones for everyone. A few years ago paying $30 per month for data on your phone was a crazy concept reserved only for the affluent.

The only problem is that gadget guys are the tastemakers of the world. Our ambivalence to iOS will eventually catch up with them.

It is hard to feel excited about that new Iphone when the dorky guy in the office is playing games on his 5.7 inch phone with a ps3 controller. Then plugging it into his Sony car stereo with full mirroring, all the while torrenting the last season of game of thrones.

So IMO the 5s is enough to move some units, but apple has lost the gadget guys who brought them envouge in the first place, and that is a big issue since all my iphone wielding friends get green with envy when they see the crazy stuff I'm doing with my note 2.

I am in the exact same boat. 36 here and I majored in IT. I am a gadget nut and to be honest Apple has really let me down in terms of their ability to compete and innovate. It's clear other companies are giving consumers what they want, Apple needs to do the same instead. Both my wife and I want larger screens now, but we'll wait for the iPhone 6.

To the OP: I know exactly how you feel. These days I cannot tell someone outright that the iPhone is the best smartphone out there. It's simply not depending on the user's needs.

MigsVuitton
Sep 10, 2013, 02:16 PM
I'm wondering, you can't send a picture as a text or an email with andriod? That sucks. I'm considering a switch to andriod but I never realized that.

No you can, but if it's a text, it downgrades the quality because it converts it to an MMS message. Also for some reason it downgraded in email as well.

On my iPhone I can send large HQ photos which I do a lot for my design work and photography.

I know there are apps on android/iOS that allow you to send images via messaging systems but the problem is, people I know with iPhones don't use it because they have iMessage.

brinycbri
Sep 10, 2013, 04:54 PM
"Gadget guys are the taste makers for the world"

Hahahahahahahaha

Anna Wintour is dying as we speak

PhoneI
Sep 10, 2013, 05:13 PM
Myself and a core group of my buddies are all "gadget guys". We all are the demographic that apple used to covet. 18-40 year old guys who are creative types with enough disposable income to have the hottest new thing. Sometime around the 4s apple list the race to be the most cutting edge phone. Android is leaps and bounds better for guys like us. It just does more. Anytime I get bored I can find a cool little feature to enable on my phone, and it really has become nearly as capable as my macbook air.

Apple is no longer designing phones for us. They are making phones for everyone. A few years ago paying $30 per month for data on your phone was a crazy concept reserved only for the affluent.

The only problem is that gadget guys are the tastemakers of the world. Our ambivalence to iOS will eventually catch up with them.

It is hard to feel excited about that new Iphone when the dorky guy in the office is playing games on his 5.7 inch phone with a ps3 controller. Then plugging it into his Sony car stereo with full mirroring, all the while torrenting the last season of game of thrones.

So IMO the 5s is enough to move some units, but apple has lost the gadget guys who brought them envouge in the first place, and that is a big issue since all my iphone wielding friends get green with envy when they see the crazy stuff I'm doing with my note 2.

Am I the only one not wanting a 5.7 inch screen? I have an iPad mini for that.

Tsuchiya
Sep 10, 2013, 05:27 PM
Apple is doing what they have always done, but people seem to forget yearly. They do just enough to maintain their position. Incremental upgrades, a new feature to show off. For them it works and consumers lap it up. They'll change if they need to. For now the 5S and 5C will most likely sell in huge volumes so this trend of theirs is unlikely to change anytime soon.


LOL at dude saying hes a musician, yet uses android ...:rolleyes:
ANy musician worth their beans would know that the iOS is a killer mobile music solution..


Was this meant to be a joke :confused:

ABC5S
Sep 10, 2013, 05:29 PM
Am I the only one not wanting a 5.7 inch screen? I have an iPad mini for that.

Nope. Not the only one PhoneI. Really like the refresh iPhone 5S.

LIVEFRMNYC
Sep 10, 2013, 05:38 PM
Myself and a core group of my buddies are all "gadget guys". We all are the demographic that apple used to covet. 18-40 year old guys who are creative types with enough disposable income to have the hottest new thing. Sometime around the 4s apple list the race to be the most cutting edge phone. Android is leaps and bounds better for guys like us. It just does more. Anytime I get bored I can find a cool little feature to enable on my phone, and it really has become nearly as capable as my macbook air.

Apple is no longer designing phones for us. They are making phones for everyone. A few years ago paying $30 per month for data on your phone was a crazy concept reserved only for the affluent.

The only problem is that gadget guys are the tastemakers of the world. Our ambivalence to iOS will eventually catch up with them.

It is hard to feel excited about that new Iphone when the dorky guy in the office is playing games on his 5.7 inch phone with a ps3 controller. Then plugging it into his Sony car stereo with full mirroring, all the while torrenting the last season of game of thrones.

So IMO the 5s is enough to move some units, but apple has lost the gadget guys who brought them envouge in the first place, and that is a big issue since all my iphone wielding friends get green with envy when they see the crazy stuff I'm doing with my note 2.

I would agree 100% with this if it was next year talking about the iPhone 6 and very little was changed. The 5S was never expected to be a huge jump from the 5. I personally think it's a decent update. Now for myself, I will judge Apple's decision making for better or worst when they announce the iPhone 6.

flyguy206
Sep 10, 2013, 06:02 PM
The iPhone is no longer the popular phone that it once was. Most people switching it andorid are doing it because the iPhone does not have the cool factor anymore

----------

Myself and a core group of my buddies are all "gadget guys". We all are the demographic that apple used to covet. 18-40 year old guys who are creative types with enough disposable income to have the hottest new thing. Sometime around the 4s apple list the race to be the most cutting edge phone. Android is leaps and bounds better for guys like us. It just does more. Anytime I get bored I can find a cool little feature to enable on my phone, and it really has become nearly as capable as my macbook air.

Apple is no longer designing phones for us. They are making phones for everyone. A few years ago paying $30 per month for data on your phone was a crazy concept reserved only for the affluent.

The only problem is that gadget guys are the tastemakers of the world. Our ambivalence to iOS will eventually catch up with them.

It is hard to feel excited about that new Iphone when the dorky guy in the office is playing games on his 5.7 inch phone with a ps3 controller. Then plugging it into his Sony car stereo with full mirroring, all the while torrenting the last season of game of thrones.

So IMO the 5s is enough to move some units, but apple has lost the gadget guys who brought them envouge in the first place, and that is a big issue since all my iphone wielding friends get green with envy when they see the crazy stuff I'm doing with my note 2.


Most people I know that are into tech have both iPhone and android. And not one of them will say that one is better then the other.

BSben
Sep 10, 2013, 06:27 PM
In the short term it might seem to some people as if Apple is behind the competition, but I think Apple are playing a very good game here. They are creating something solid and reliable, and don't buy into the hype of others.
I think in the long run Apple will do very well with this attitude.

Ticktock123
Sep 10, 2013, 06:53 PM
Troll much?

Hah default defensive post much? :rolleyes:

tbayrgs
Sep 10, 2013, 07:09 PM
i see these posts often. and as a gadget geek myself, let me ask OP a question: what is it you think the iphone is missing?

mostly I have heard 'screen size', which to me is asthetic. someone may want a 6-inch phone. i don't. so when you say they aren't innovating, then what are you asking? what are you thinking that the iphone should have?

personally, i think the front facing camera is a crime, it should be at least as good as the iphone4's camera at this point. but that's not innovation, that's just preference.

is it because the body looks the same? we need to change the appearance every few months to be 'innovative'? i think the iphone 4 was amazing looking, and prefer it over the 5. but, again, preference.

here is something i would like. make a 'documents' gallery, like we currently have a photo gallery. let me keep PDF's, docs, pages files, whatever, there. and then let me access them at will by any other app. i don't need a file system, i just need to be able to edit something in my dropbox.

is THAT innovation? i doubt it. that's just applying one idea to another file type.

let Siri work better between commands. Siri, what time is the football game tonight? 'Redskins and Eagles play at 7.' Please email that to my dad. "what would you like to say to your dad?" connect those two so she knows i mean 'that' is the search she just did.

not sure that is innovation either.

so, rambling message aside, i ask again. what innovations are you searching for? what has been inovated elsewhere that you are looking for?

ps. controller API's are in iOS7, so i suspect that will show up soon.

I've copied a response I made in another thread explaining why right now I prefer Android. And this isn't a 'why Android is better than iOS' response because it was nothing of the sort.

What else is there about Android that keeps you there other than screen size? Just curiosity.
Customization, flexibility, and notifications.

1). I prefer the notification system of Android, hands down. Not only can you customize what's in view, I can swipe aside any individual notifications I don't need or clear them all, control whatever audio I'm listening to, so much more function and flexibility. Pair it with the LED and it's awesome. I'm contemplating trying a Moto X so I can try out Active Notifications which seem to take it to any even better level.

2). Customization options are nearly endless. To give some perspective, on iOS I can choose my wallpaper and arrange my app icons almost anyway I like. On Android, I can do so much more. For instance, to start, I've setup my lockscreen with a custom unlock widget that allows me to directly launch any of 18 different apps.

Once unlocked, using Nova Prime launcher, I have 5 different home screens (can have more or less, whatever one prefers) arranged with a collection of app icons, folders, and widgets. I can have app icons anywhere I like (i.e. only along the bottom, for instance) vs. them automatically snapping to the next free position on the screen as done in iOS. I also have a dock that scrolls independently from the home screens--I like having 3 sets of 5 icons in my dock. Again, beauty of Android is I can have more or less, almost whatever I want. I don't use a ton of widgets but I like having one with my calendar quickly viewable (and editable) and another with my Twitter feed. Lastly, I have a custom theme that changes the appearance of all of my icons.

I also run a couple of other apps that, in conjunction with the gesture options provided by Nova Prime, let me navigate around my phone without ever having to touch my home button, multitasking button, or app drawer, all via simple gestures.

3). In addition to the flexibility of customization, I can setup whatever app I want to serve as the default app for functions. I can choose what browser opens when I touch a web address, what app to open when I select a photo, what app opens when I touch an address, etc. Also, when I choose to share something, I can select any appropriate app vs. the few that iOS may allow. And while I never had problems using iTunes to coordinate syncing of data and media, I prefer having the flexibility to use something as simple as drag and drop or an app like AirDroid to quickly do it wirelessly.

Oh, and another example of flexibility. Similar to the trusted Bluetooth device element of the Moto X, I was able to set up my HTC One to not require my lockscreen security (pin number) if it's connected to my Pebble smartwatch.

I'm sure I could come up with a ton more but this alone illustrates why I prefer Android, right now. As I mentioned, there are still elements of iOS that I like--the consistency between OS and apps, the simplicity of certain elements, the backup functionality and integration with other Apple devices. However, it's just not enough to compensate for everything that cannot be done.

Again, this is all just my preference and I can certainly understand someone seeing it differently and preferring iOS.

I don't think any of this is as exotic as being able to play games on my phone with a PS3 controller, just how I like to set up my phone for everyday use. Without Jailbreaking, I can't do any of this on an iPhone.

And I'm a heavy user of Apple products, used an iPhone from the original through the 5. I don't consider myself a niche consumer and if Apple can lose me as an iPhone consumer, it can certainly lose many more.

mellofello
Sep 10, 2013, 07:38 PM
And a collective meh comes from the internet. I preordered every single other iphone, but even if I hadn't moved over to android I would have stuck with my iphone 5 this time. Perhaps this is a first world problem, and phones have just gotten so good that it is hardly worth it to habitually upgrade all the time. I just feel like if you are going to come out with 2 lines of iphone one should be premium, and one should be ultra premium. The iphone is a aspirational device in developing markets, I bet the 5s will outsell the 5c, even in the lower income demographics.

marksman
Sep 10, 2013, 07:56 PM
Lol. I was inline on launch day for the original iPhone. I was there about eight hours. Was very few gadget guys there.

Your read on apple's customer base is fundamentally wrong.

If you want to steal game of thrones on your phone you might need to switch to android. Of course if you pay for hbo you can just watch it like a normal person.

Bigdawg4
Sep 10, 2013, 09:11 PM
Am I the only one not wanting a 5.7 inch screen? I have an iPad mini for that.

I really want a 5" screen on my iPhone. I stick with apple because it is smooth and easy to use. Im not a tech guy and dont want to JB or tinker with my phone, I just want to pick it up and use it. I tried the SG3 and liked it but not as much as I like my iphone...just my opinion

tdar
Sep 10, 2013, 09:41 PM
And a collective meh comes from the internet. I preordered every single other iphone, but even if I hadn't moved over to android I would have stuck with my iphone 5 this time. Perhaps this is a first world problem, and phones have just gotten so good that it is hardly worth it to habitually upgrade all the time. I just feel like if you are going to come out with 2 lines of iphone one should be premium, and one should be ultra premium. The iphone is a aspirational device in developing markets, I bet the 5s will outsell the 5c, even in the lower income demographics.

WOW! I just can't understand how one person can misread so much of the way things actually work and replace it with the way you might want it to work. Apple catering to techies? In what world?

Yes phones in general have all gotten "Good enough". Please take off your blinders and look around at all of the people STILL using iPhone 3G's and 4's. They find no reason to upgrade. This is the real world here in the US. In developing markets the last thing Apple needs is a ultra premium device. You do know that most people in those markets are poor right? They are the reason that Android has the share it does-CHEAP.

One other point. Say that you and your friends could work with Jony Ive and team on the next iPhone- What innovations would you bring? A larger screen is NOT innovative. So what have you got?

Ibjr
Sep 10, 2013, 09:54 PM
Troll much?

Not really. Look at my join date. Those of us who came early in the Apple wave are very disappointed in the lack of innovation. The Moto X looks very interesting, but I am going to wait for the 5S reviews.

iz2sick
Sep 10, 2013, 09:55 PM
I grow tired of these arguments about the S models being minor upgrades.

WHY? Because it's in the same shell as the model prior? Give me a break. I've said this since the 3GS...

I bet that if every S model had a redesigned shell, there wouldn't be half as much whining. If the 5S components were shoved into a redesigned shell with a bigger screen, even Android fanboys would stop hating.

Is this where we're at now? All these self proclaimed tech geeks only care about bigger screens now? Get out of here with that nonsense. I do love me some big screens like the Galaxy Note, but I'll take higher performance and better camera over it any day of the week. What good is that hulking screen if it gets all choppy after an hour of usage? Note II was better and the III looks to be beastly though so I'll give them that.

It's like the ignorant focus on megapixels. Give me a 4 megapixel camera with a superb lens, aperture, and sensor and I'll take it over a camera with 1,000 megapixels with inferior lens, aperture, and sensor.

64bit processor in a smartphone. Awesome even though it might never be fully utilized. Why? This is a step towards the future and it's starting with the 5S. Put that beast in the iPad with more ram and "WEEEEEEEEE!!!!" Then watch the 64bit apps start rolling out and hand your 5S down to your little brother or sister as it will have new life breathed back into it.

And for us true nerds... better graphics and M7??? Better video games... better gps tracking... and for my snowboarding... better speed run tracking... giggity.

hairyguy
Sep 10, 2013, 10:08 PM
biggest shocker here is no 128gb iphone. the upgrades on the 5s are laughable. and then that's it. nothing else was offered as new. this is the worst keynote i have seen overall for apple. no ipad, iwatch or anything else new.

is there another part to the keynote tomorrow? or was this it for this holiday season?

crzdcolombian
Sep 10, 2013, 10:21 PM
Am I the only one not wanting a 5.7 inch screen? I have an iPad mini for that.

haha exactly WHERE DO YOU PUT THAT !!! I have keys, a wallet, and something god gave me to knock up a woman in my pants. WHere does someone put a basically 6 inch phone? My girlfriend has a purse where she puts her iPad and carries it every where but where does a guy fit a 6 inch phone. Do you guys rock the baggiest pants ever or one of those dad bags that you wear on your stomachs?

Negatives for me
- why is the base model still 16gb?
- the 5c is basically the 5 with a crappier case.
- 100 bucks for the 5c isn't that cheap especially when they tell you for 100 bucks more you get a phone 40% faster

unobtainium
Sep 10, 2013, 10:33 PM
Myself and a core group of my buddies are all "gadget guys".

There are a few issues with this post.

#1. You and your group of friends are just one group. I know many techy people who are still 100% Apple in their set-ups and who continue to prefer iOS because of its approach to design and integration.

#2. You overestimate the influence of tech geeks on the general public. In some ways, there is actually a deterrent effect to what you describe: the geeky guy in the office using his PS3 controller to play games on a dinky little 5" screen will repel just as many people as it attracts :p Some people will look at that and say, "Oh, I get it - Android is for dorky dudebros" and continue to enjoy their more stylish iPhone.

Basically, the market is segmenting and that's fine. Your demographic will almost certainly stick with Android (Apple isn't gonna win them back, doesn't care to, and probably is completely unconcerned). Meanwhile, much of the mainstream will stick with iOS - certainly enough for them to continue printing money for the foreseeable future.

Personally, I find Android irritating. I'm OCD and love the tight integration and beauty of iPhone/iOS. But I don't begrudge others their own tastes and preferences and I can see why some prefer Android. I just don't think Apple's position in the market is in danger.

The Game 161
Sep 10, 2013, 10:57 PM
alot of what the OP is saying is why i switched to android but everybody is different...we all have different usage patterns. Iphone 5S to me was a joke of an upgrade for ME but to others It's might be what they need and thats fine for them.

----------

haha exactly WHERE DO YOU PUT THAT !!! I have keys, a wallet, and something god gave me to knock up a woman in my pants. WHere does someone put a basically 6 inch phone? My girlfriend has a purse where she puts her iPad and carries it every where but where does a guy fit a 6 inch phone. Do you guys rock the baggiest pants ever or one of those dad bags that you wear on your stomachs?

Negatives for me
- why is the base model still 16gb?
- the 5c is basically the 5 with a crappier case.
- 100 bucks for the 5c isn't that cheap especially when they tell you for 100 bucks more you get a phone 40% faster

It fits in the pocket far better than you think it does.

jlp2979
Sep 10, 2013, 11:20 PM
I'm also a gadget lover and dual-wield, one iPhone and one android because I always get the itch to switch to one or the other and use a sim adapter. Currently own the iPhone 5 and just sold my GS4. The GS4 was just too big and I got sick of it really quickly. I currently have a Moto X on order, Motorola totally nailed it in terms of ergonomics. If you haven't held one don't knock it. Side by side, it is only a tad larger than the iPhone 5 yet packs a 4.7" screen. So it is possible to have a large screen in a small form factor body that you can use with one hand. Apple needs to do this with the 6.

juswest
Sep 10, 2013, 11:28 PM
I'm also a gadget lover and dual-wield, one iPhone and one android because I always get the itch to switch to one or the other and use a sim adapter. Currently own the iPhone 5 and just sold my GS4. The GS4 was just too big and I got sick of it really quickly. I currently have a Moto X on order, Motorola totally nailed it in terms of ergonomics. If you haven't held one don't knock it. Side by side, it is only a tad larger than the iPhone 5 yet packs a 4.7" screen. So it is possible to have a large screen in a small form factor body that you can use with one hand. Apple needs to do this with the 6.

The Moto X fits in the hand perfectly. I love mine. I noticed today like you did that it's only slightly bigger than the iPhone. The only minus for the Moto X is the camera, but I don't care about pictures. It's not a horrible camera, but there's certainly better cameras out. The pictures look too muted. Stock android is a better experience than touchwiz. Best battery life I've had is with this Moto X.

ThisIsNotMe
Sep 10, 2013, 11:31 PM
Never really thought about the usefulness of a fingerprint sensor until I thought about it like this.

It takes 3-4 seconds to home button->slide to unlock->enter in my pass code (longer when I was on alpha numeric.)

I probably unlock my phone ~50 times per day which equates to roughly 200 seconds of unlocking my phone or ~3 minutes per day wasted accessing my phone.

Across an entire year that is ~1,000 minutes or 18 hours I have spent unlocking my phone which is ~$5,400 in lost productivity.

elgrecomac
Sep 10, 2013, 11:35 PM
Troll much?

This is a legit comment and discussion topic given Apple's much hyped announcements.

Let me ask you a question: Are you a bit defensive if anyone questions all things Apple? :eek:

onthecouchagain
Sep 10, 2013, 11:39 PM
Ha, I saw this thread in the iPhone forums and was wondering when it'd be moved here.

jrswizzle
Sep 10, 2013, 11:44 PM
Apple has a philosophy and business model that we should all be familiar with by now.

If it doesn't work for you, then move on.

Unbelievable this concept hasn't sunk in yet.....

I'm extremely excited to be getting the 5S. Having been solely on my GS4 the last week +, I'm ready to be back home.

For me, Android is great - but not far superior to iOS because iOS simply works for me. It does the things I need to do extremely well and without hiccup.

flawlessvictory
Sep 11, 2013, 03:55 AM
Unbelievable this concept hasn't sunk in yet.....

I'm extremely excited to be getting the 5S. Having been solely on my GS4 the last week +, I'm ready to brr back home.

For me, Android is great - but not far superior to iOS because iOS simply works for me. It does the things I need to do extremely well and without hiccup.

:rolleyes:

Keep drinking the Koolaid OP.

lsutigerfan1976
Sep 11, 2013, 07:05 AM
I don't think the original poster is a troll. The truth hurts. Apple really isn't innovating any longer. You can either accept that. Or you can believe that everyone is trolling you. And i have used apple products all my life. I see this sort of like what happened when they got rid of Steve Jobs. How Apple slowly went the other direction as a company, and was forced to hire him back after. I personally think that this is a good thing. Not every company can stay king forever. And competition is healthy.

aneftp
Sep 11, 2013, 07:27 AM
Apple doesn't target the 18-40 age range.

Apple targets household incomes over $70k a year in the USA. It's a very small yet significant distinction.

Walmart customer average household income is 35k a year. Target household income is 42k. Costco target household income is 70k a year.

Costco appeals to more affluent customers who spend more money.

Wide opeN
Sep 11, 2013, 08:17 AM
So IMO the 5s is enough to move some units, but apple has lost the gadget guys who brought them envouge in the first place, and that is a big issue since all my iphone wielding friends get green with envy when they see the crazy stuff I'm doing with my note 2.

This... magnified to the highest power!!!

skratch77
Sep 11, 2013, 08:40 AM
Apple doesn't target the 18-40 age range.

Apple targets household incomes over $70k a year in the USA. It's a very small yet significant distinction.

Walmart customer average household income is 35k a year. Target household income is 42k. Costco target household income is 70k a year.

Costco appeals to more affluent customers who spend more money.

Android has 52% market share vs 39% in the USA market apple lost even its home field advantage when the gs3 came out.

There stock also took a **** this morning and is down 40 bucks from yesterdays open.

Your post makes no sense as the whole reason the plastic 5 came out is to bring a cheaper phone to the market.

You can also get an iPhone 5 at Walmart and for the longest time they were selling the 5 for 129 with a 2 year contract while the top end androids were selling for 199 and the note 2 even today is 299 with a 2 year contract and that's for a 16gb version.

So android is not only more expensive its also out selling apple in its home market and getting crushed outside the usa

AppleRobert
Sep 11, 2013, 08:43 AM
I have an Ipad Mini, my only Apple product. I doubt I'll ever get an iPhone whatever version and will continue to stick with android for smartphones. Now that's smart, android continues to push the envelope and there is so much to choose from without waiting a year!!! :)

Wide opeN
Sep 11, 2013, 08:45 AM
Image (http://i.imgur.com/HDbiMdb.jpg)

I love it!!! This is exactly what Apple will look like if they keep it up; fools!!!

Their pompous attitudes remind me very much of Nokia, and where are they at now!?

Todd B.
Sep 11, 2013, 08:52 AM
Myself and a core group of my buddies are all "gadget guys". We all are the demographic that apple used to covet. 18-40 year old guys who are creative types with enough disposable income to have the hottest new thing. Sometime around the 4s apple list the race to be the most cutting edge phone. Android is leaps and bounds better for guys like us. It just does more. Anytime I get bored I can find a cool little feature to enable on my phone, and it really has become nearly as capable as my macbook air.

Apple is no longer designing phones for us. They are making phones for everyone. A few years ago paying $30 per month for data on your phone was a crazy concept reserved only for the affluent.

The only problem is that gadget guys are the tastemakers of the world. Our ambivalence to iOS will eventually catch up with them.

It is hard to feel excited about that new Iphone when the dorky guy in the office is playing games on his 5.7 inch phone with a ps3 controller. Then plugging it into his Sony car stereo with full mirroring, all the while torrenting the last season of game of thrones.

So IMO the 5s is enough to move some units, but apple has lost the gadget guys who brought them envouge in the first place, and that is a big issue since all my iphone wielding friends get green with envy when they see the crazy stuff I'm doing with my note 2.

So Apple not designing for a niche but, instead, designing for the majority of users meanings they're "treading water"? Ok... :rolleyes:

jrswizzle
Sep 11, 2013, 08:53 AM
:rolleyes:

Interesting to note, one word posts (in this case only an emoticon) tend to be no-nos here.

Please, speak up if you have something to say.

Prototypical
Sep 11, 2013, 08:55 AM
#2. You overestimate the influence of tech geeks on the general public.

This bears repeating. As an auto enthusiast, I tend to feel the same way about my brands of choice. It's frustrating that we don't get as much horsepower as we think we should, or big enough brakes, or all-wheel-drive, or whatever... but ultimately, the manufacturer is designing for the other 99.5% of their customers; NOT us. We're loyal and we're good mouthpieces from a marketing perspective, but we're (as the enthusiast crowd) probably just as much of a persnickity pain in the butt as we are a benefit.

Apple's bread and butter is making devices that are familiar and dead simple to use. Jony phrased it perfectly when you think of the common Apple customer - "Technology is best when it simply disappears." Apple customers want the device to handle their business so they don't have to. They don't care how... they don't WANT to know how. I'm not criticizing either - I'm "tech geeky," yet I'm one of the people I just described.

Never really thought about the usefulness of a fingerprint sensor until I thought about it like this.

It takes 3-4 seconds to home button->slide to unlock->enter in my pass code (longer when I was on alpha numeric.)

I probably unlock my phone ~50 times per day which equates to roughly 200 seconds of unlocking my phone or ~3 minutes per day wasted accessing my phone.

Across an entire year that is ~1,000 minutes or 18 hours I have spent unlocking my phone which is ~$5,400 in lost productivity.

Well, that's depressing to think about. :p

The other angle is this - no longer do you have to try and unlock your phone while driving or doing something that you can't take your eyes off of. There have been plenty of times where I ask Siri to give me directions (in the middle of driving somehwere), and the phone then prompts me for my password. If I'm driving, this is unacceptable. The whole point of Siri is to be hands-free. With Touch ID, I can just put my finger on the sensor, unlock the phone, and continue on with my life.

Security + simplicity = win.

Assault
Sep 11, 2013, 09:11 AM
And Apple's stock is tanking. Down 5% in just the first hour of trading. More of the same + no innovation = sell shares

heutusops
Sep 11, 2013, 09:12 AM
that's EXACTLY what i think. the android guys are offering us so much that it's hard to go for the iphone. and the iphone 5C was the worst idea ever, going from a better material to a CHEAP material, what's the point? another bad decision was that the 5C replaced iphone5..... i'm just gonna chill with my note 2 and wait for my note 3:D

Todd B.
Sep 11, 2013, 09:14 AM
And Apple's stock is tanking. Down 5% in just the first hour of trading. More of the same + no innovation = sell shares

Like speculation on the stock market has any indication about anything. I love the people that try to use the "stock market" angle just to take a dig at Apple instead of using rational thought.

AppleRobert
Sep 11, 2013, 09:31 AM
Like speculation on the stock market has any indication about anything. I love the people that try to use the "stock market" angle just to take a dig at Apple instead of using rational thought.

All I can say is what the heck have they been doing at Apple for the last half year? Forget yesterday and today's price drop, look at it from that time period.

The answer is nothing, the price is deserving of what has been going on which is not much but taking in the sun and sipping their favorite drinks perhaps?

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/only-things-normal-people-know-132501138.html

aneftp
Sep 11, 2013, 09:35 AM
Android has 52% market share vs 39% in the USA market apple lost even its home field advantage when the gs3 came out.

There stock also took a **** this morning and is down 40 bucks from yesterdays open.

Your post makes no sense as the whole reason the plastic 5 came out is to bring a cheaper phone to the market.

You can also get an iPhone 5 at Walmart and for the longest time they were selling the 5 for 129 with a 2 year contract while the top end androids were selling for 199 and the note 2 even today is 299 with a 2 year contract and that's for a 16gb version.

So android is not only more expensive its also out selling apple in its home market and getting crushed outside the usa

Android phones are not more expensive for the most part. With exception of high end android devices most android phones are much cheaper than iPhones.

Also most phones are sold in USA on postpaid plans.

It's a well known fact (Sprint CEO already admitted carriers subsidize the iPhone 40% more than any other phones on the market). So its pretty safe to assume sprint and other carriers are paying much less in bulk for Galaxy S4 than they are paying for iPhones.

So tell me. Are android phones more expensive than iPhones?

jamojamo
Sep 11, 2013, 09:37 AM
Amen. I am not a troll or a hater. I meant this post more as a dear john letter to apple. It isn't too late. If apple diversified its line up and offered a broader range of phones, sped up its release dates, and loosened a few restrictions on iOS development higher end users would come back.

Apple has transitioned from making the highest end hardware on the market to milquetoast comoditised phones.

They can do better, and everyone knows it. But then what incremental update will they sell for Iphone 6?

Reaching lower with the 5c is the worst thing I have heard in a while. Why not shoot for the stars with a Iphone pro cost be damned cram everything and the kitchen sink in. People will buy it.

Kinda like the droves of people that bought the MacPro?


Seriously though, you need to understand the global market better. US, Europe are saturated markets, they are the ones buying more expensive phones. The low cost phones are for emerging markets (esp China). While some in US/EU will buy them that's just icing on the cake.

I also think you need to get a better concept of Apple's direction. It's clear you aren't their target market so they won't be catering to you. It's not something you have to like, because there are options (Samsung, Nokia, et al).


If Apple were to "out-Android" Android, I predict you'd see the same thing that happened to Coca-Cola when they made "New Coke" because it was more like Pepsi. A disaster of epic proportions.

AppleRobert
Sep 11, 2013, 09:44 AM
I do not see the 5c as "cheap" either. It is CHEAPER, but not cheap.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/only-things-normal-people-know-132501138.html

AutoUnion39
Sep 11, 2013, 09:45 AM
Every year, someone says that Apple is treading water, yet every iPhone outsells the older ones combined.

JackieInCo
Sep 11, 2013, 09:46 AM
I read a headline this morning that pretty well sums it up:

Apple chooses profits over marketshare.

Hawkeye16
Sep 11, 2013, 10:13 AM
I read a headline this morning that pretty well sums it up:

Apple chooses profits over marketshare.

Might want to include the entire title "Apple Chooses Profits Over Marketshare for Flash-Based iPods"

http://www.dailytech.com/Apple+Chooses+Profits+Over+Marketshare+for+FlashBased+iPods/article4197.htm

JackieInCo
Sep 11, 2013, 10:14 AM
Might want to include the entire title "Apple Chooses Profits Over Marketshare for Flash-Based iPods"

http://www.dailytech.com/Apple+Chooses+Profits+Over+Marketshare+for+FlashBased+iPods/article4197.htm

I just read what I quoted from the stock app on the iPhone. The rest of the title that you quoted wasn't shown. I didn't read the article. I assumed it was talking about the iPhone since it was the day after the event and the iPhone was all the big news.

The headline no longer shows on the stock app.

skratch77
Sep 11, 2013, 10:20 AM
Android phones are not more expensive for the most part. With exception of high end android devices most android phones are much cheaper than iPhones.

Also most phones are sold in USA on postpaid plans.

It's a well known fact (Sprint CEO already admitted carriers subsidize the iPhone 40% more than any other phones on the market). So its pretty safe to assume sprint and other carriers are paying much less in bulk for Galaxy S4 than they are paying for iPhones.

So tell me. Are android phones more expensive than iPhones?

I don't care what 4th place carriers subsidize there plans out as they also do the same for apple but the gs3,note,note2 and gs4 all had the same exact msrp as the iPhone 5

aneftp
Sep 11, 2013, 11:18 AM
I don't care what 4th place carriers subsidize there plans out as they also do the same for apple but the gs3,note,note2 and gs4 all had the same exact msrp as the iPhone 5

It's not just 4th place carrier. Verizon and ATT get the same big discounts from Samsung HTC to push their android phones.

MSRP doesn't matter in the post paid world since the percentage of people paying full price are extremely small. I estimate less than 2-3% of people pay full msrp for carrier post paid phones.

Apple probably discounts the post paid carrier 10% from msrp while Samsunf discounts 20-30% off msrp.

skratch77
Sep 11, 2013, 11:41 AM
It's not just 4th place carrier. Verizon and ATT get the same big discounts from Samsung HTC to push their android phones.

MSRP doesn't matter in the post paid world since the percentage of people paying full price are extremely small. I estimate less than 2-3% of people pay full msrp for carrier post paid phones.

Apple probably discounts the post paid carrier 10% from msrp while Samsunf discounts 20-30% off msrp.

That has nothing to do with the freaking price consumers pay.I paid 200 for my gs3 and 200 for my gs4 along with my co workers paying 300 for there note 2s.

You are saying the iPhone caters to higher classed income when the biggest selling androids are more for a 2 year contract.

The funny part is my brother just decided on getting the note 3 and is finally leaving iOS and is about to pay 300 for the cell on a 2 year deal.

Technarchy
Sep 11, 2013, 11:47 AM
I find the iPhone 5S to be a very tempting product, while my S4 is an okay product.

That's really all that matters.

VulchR
Sep 11, 2013, 11:55 AM
If the iPhone has lost its 'cool' factor with hipsters, then that would be fine by me. I'm way old, so I remember taking all sorts of crap about using a Mac back in the day. The reason? Many people objected to the snobbish behaviour of people who owned Apple products, and this seems to be re-occuring with fanboys versus fandroids (both equally obnoxious).

It looked to me as though the 5S was a solid upgrade, and I can see considerable advantages of a faster processor, security improvements, and refinement of motion sensing. Also, iOS 7 seems to be a useful upgrade to me, and I would like for my phone to be able to use all the features (no doubt my 4S won't). I do want a bigger screen (old eyes), so I was going to skip the 5S. Now I am not so sure, so I am going to wait to see what the 5S is like once it is released.

The Game 161
Sep 11, 2013, 11:56 AM
I find the iPhone 5S to be a very tempting product, while my S4 is an okay product.

That's really all that matters.

It is

Only you know what's right for you.

aneftp
Sep 11, 2013, 12:07 PM
That has nothing to do with the freaking price consumers pay.I paid 200 for my gs3 and 200 for my gs4 along with my co workers paying 300 for there note 2s.

You are saying the iPhone caters to higher classed income when the biggest selling androids are more for a 2 year contract.

The funny part is my brother just decided on getting the note 3 and is finally leaving iOS and is about to pay 300 for the cell on a 2 year deal.

I am getting the note 3 myself. I am not an android hater. I love all phones.

If you compare the breakdown. Apple has 40% of the USA market. Of course that's spread across iPhone 5, iPhone 4S and iPhone 4 that they are selling n

Samsung has 24% of USA market. That's spread across Galaxy s2 (yes they are still selling S2 on cheaper prepaid), S3 and S4.

Apple is still killing Samung in the higher range ($199 contract/post paid market). HTC is a very minor player.

The rest of the android market share are cheap android phones.

skratch77
Sep 11, 2013, 12:12 PM
I am getting the note 3 myself. I am not an android hater. I love all phones.

If you compare the breakdown. Apple has 40% of the USA market. Of course that's spread across iPhone 5, iPhone 4S and iPhone 4 that they are selling n

Samsung has 24% of USA market. That's spread across Galaxy s2 (yes they are still selling S2 on cheaper prepaid), S3 and S4.

Apple is still killing Samung in the higher range ($199 contract/post paid market). HTC is a very minor player.

The rest of the android market share are cheap android phones.

Why are you comparing Samsung vs apple market share and the rest of the android flagships that make up the rest of the market share are not cheap devices.they all sell for 199 with 2 year contracts that comes right down to my point that android flagships cost just as much as apples top end I phones.

aneftp
Sep 11, 2013, 12:20 PM
Why are you comparing Samsung vs apple market share and the rest of the android flagships that make up the rest of the market share are not cheap devices.they all sell for 199 with 2 year contracts that comes right down to my point that android flagships cost just as much as apples top end I phones.

There is no other competition. HTC is next android maker and they barely register at 9%.

I'd like to see how the Moto X is selling. Unfortunately Google doesn't release any figures so far.

skratch77
Sep 11, 2013, 12:32 PM
There is no other competition. HTC is next android maker and they barely register at 9%.

I'd like to see how the Moto X is selling. Unfortunately Google doesn't release any figures so far.

That's all Irrelevant as all those other phones are 199 with a 2 year at launch and even the mighty iPhone 5 was caught selling at what 129 or 127 at Walmart and makes your iPhone caters to rich people a mute point and fact is all major selling android phones all sell for around the same subsidized pricing across the board

Loke2112
Sep 11, 2013, 12:37 PM
"Gadget guys"are no longer their target market . Its the general market. Women, consumers in China.

Totally agree. Especially asian teenage girls after looking at IOS7 and all the pretty pastel colors...Where's the mens version?? That said, as a gadget guy who is loyal to Apple products I am underwhelmed to say the least with yesterdays news. If it wasn't for the crappy 2.4 ghtz antenna in my 4S I wouldn't even consider upgrading but it's driving me nuts dropping WiFi left and right.

Switching to Android is not an option. I bought the fist Google Galaxy phone a year or more ago and returned it. No push notifications on texts out of the box? It was a Google phone yet it failed to upload the first test video to YouTube??

Anyway my iMac iPad will only play nice with another iPhone so I guess I'm staying but I'll be so pissed if they make a bigger screen come next Sept. when I cant upgrade without paying out the wazoo.

----------

There is no other competition. HTC is next android maker and they barely register at 9%.

I'd like to see how the Moto X is selling. Unfortunately Google doesn't release any figures so far.


Sorry but when you add two pieces of crap together, Google and Motorola you still get a turd. Sorry, tried a ton of their products and they predominantly fail miserably.

Antitryptic
Sep 11, 2013, 12:43 PM
There is no other competition. HTC is next android maker and they barely register at 9%.

I'd like to see how the Moto X is selling. Unfortunately Google doesn't release any figures so far.
The factory, in which Motorola is manufacturing the Moto X, is stating that 100,000 Moto Xs are being assembled weekly. (According to CNET and a few various sources.) Unfortunately, it isn't solid evidence of how many Moto Xs are actually being sold.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-57602301-1/motorola-assembling-100k-moto-x-phones-in-texas-weekly/

onthecouchagain
Sep 11, 2013, 01:03 PM
I'll get excited about the iPhone and iOS next year. Being serious.

That's the expected redesign year so it'll be really interesting to see where they go with the screen size.

iOS is taking the right steps -- itty bitty as they may be -- to making iOS more usable. It'll be nice to see how iOS 8 continues this.

crzdcolombian
Sep 11, 2013, 07:25 PM
This is a legit comment and discussion topic given Apple's much hyped announcements.

Let me ask you a question: Are you a bit defensive if anyone questions all things Apple? :eek:

haha no I just think it's funny that non apple fans watch the presentation or the live blog on Cnet and Macrumors just to **** on the iphone. I don't even know anything about the galaxy or the note or the nexus and don't care. I would never watch their presentation of a product.

What I don't get is why people are so mad. Does the new iPhone 5s kill puppies everytime you recharge the battery? And the nexus saves a grandma when you touch the home button :). What was everyone expecting? PS4 graphics and 4k screen on a 7inch screen? My phones are to make calls and quickly answer work emails.

I am in the apple ecosystem and nothing beats me writing a note in class and it being on my iPad/Macbook Air. This is what I have an iPhone.

I just need a new phone and can care less about the graphics or a 64 bit thing. The screen size of my 4s is fine but this is a bit bigger. I don't need a 5-6 inch phone.

Savor
Sep 12, 2013, 03:58 AM
Apple iPhone was the most revolutionary to me back in 2007-2008 when multi-touch, pinch to zoom, Cover Flow, jailbreaking, and App Store were still fresh to me. By 2010, Apple peaked with the evolutionary refined, iPhone 4 and more mature iOS4, and then lost the luster ever since.

The thing I wish Apple would do is at least change the external design every year or at least the back materials. I'm starting to think the "tock" years are better. I feel like the "s" versions are the better choices because you get the best of both worlds in exterior and interior. By making 5s look similar to 5, it was like a big middle finger to 5 owners that now have the WEAKER twin. The iPhone 5 design is maybe the 3rd best behind the original iPhone and 4/4s for pure aesthetics, so the 5s doesnt appeal to me visually. I think the Nexus 4 looks better even with a fragile glass back.

Other OEM's have much smaller capital but they at least try to change it up every year. Did the HTC One look like the One X flagship of last year? Did the Xperia Z look like the Xperia S? Even the Nexus phones look different every year.

Apple is just LAZY and wanting to save money. Apple has 100B cash and act lethargic when it comes to external design something they are highly praised for. Instead of another glass back on 4s, they could have changed it. Instead of another scruff-prone aluminum back on 5s, they could have changed it. Instead use ONE design every TWO years by them and then make the "tick" owners really ticked off when they have the weaker twin internally.

ceva321
Sep 12, 2013, 04:49 AM
If you're complaining about the weight of an iPad you need to do less Internet and more exercise. Seriously get your ass to the gym and lift some heavy ass weights that's embarrassing you should be ashamed of yourself. It's time to box up those my little ponies and become a man.

Lol true :rolleyes:

Listen I love phones!

I own an iphone and a Galaxy Note 2 and I love them both.

I am not an Apple or Samsung fan. I just love technology. The Galaxy offers me a slightly different experience than the I phone.

I would never bad mouth either company or say that I don't care about other phones to me that is just plain ignorant and arrogant.

It is fun to see what companies like Google, Samsung and Apple come up with every year.

I am excited about the Note3 I must say.

ClassObject
Sep 12, 2013, 05:16 PM
This is a legit comment and discussion topic given Apple's much hyped announcements.

Let me ask you a question: Are you a bit defensive if anyone questions all things Apple? :eek:

If this were a ford, bicycle, basketball, etc, forum and someone came in with that kind of post, I'd ask the same thing. Seems as if the OP is digging for a negative response.

Dmaynard83
Sep 15, 2013, 10:17 PM
I'll still say iPhones still have the smoothest experience on a phone right now. I've been using an s4 and coming from a note 2.

Android needs to work on the smoothness factor and less on benchmarks

Kariya
Sep 15, 2013, 10:31 PM
You were never Apple's target market. They just had the only decent device in the market hence you were forced to buy it.

Now there are alternatives to cater to your demographic but Apple's target audience remains the same as ever and thats the regular Joe Shmo with disposable income.

And those people don't care about air gestures of connecting a PS3 controller to a cellphone. They want simple and reliable to use in a pretty case.

onthecouchagain
Sep 15, 2013, 10:34 PM
I'll still say iPhones still have the smoothest experience on a phone right now. I've been using an s4 and coming from a note 2.

Android needs to work on the smoothness factor and less on benchmarks

You need to meet the HTC One (and apparently the Moto X and G2).

Samsung needs to work on smoothness. That is to say, they need to back the throttle off on the skinning. But they've seemed to have created their own following for TouchWiz, so who am I to say what is what considering there are other options.

Therein, once again, lies the beauty of Android. Choice.

Dmaynard83
Sep 15, 2013, 10:42 PM
You need to meet the HTC One (and apparently the Moto X and G2).

Samsung needs to work on smoothness. That is to say, they need to back the throttle off on the skinning. But they've seemed to have created their own following for TouchWiz, so who am I to say what is what considering there are other options.

Therein, once again, lies the beauty of Android. Choice.

I'd rather just go back to iPhone if I had to get a HTC one.

At least with Samsung phones I can swap out batteries and add storage space.

onthecouchagain
Sep 15, 2013, 10:54 PM
I'd rather just go back to iPhone if I had to get a HTC one.

At least with Samsung phones I can swap out batteries and add storage space.

There's, of course, always that option too.

(Not trying to stop you but doesn't the g2 offer those features too?)

Dmaynard83
Sep 15, 2013, 11:07 PM
There's, of course, always that option too.

(Not trying to stop you but doesn't the g2 offer those features too?)

I just generally think I'm trying replicate the experience I had on my iPhone 5 with rooting and roms etc. And in the end why not just go back to iPhone and avoid all the rooting to get my back to the same smoothness.

There's also an aesthetic element on ios that android is seriously needing. Is it just me but does most of Android ui look like ****? Even aosp and Google edition roms.

Some things I will definitely miss tho. Notification light and SwiftKey to name a few. Never really use s beam or any of the gestures.

ucfgrad93
Sep 15, 2013, 11:29 PM
Apple has a philosophy and business model that we should all be familiar with by now.

If it doesn't work for you, then move on.

Agreed. It is nice to have choices. Pick what works best for you and let others do the same.

Bankaimadness
Sep 15, 2013, 11:45 PM
Totally agree. Especially asian teenage girls after looking at IOS7 and all the pretty pastel colors...Where's the mens version?? That said, as a gadget guy who is loyal to Apple products I am underwhelmed to say the least with yesterdays news. If it wasn't for the crappy 2.4 ghtz antenna in my 4S I wouldn't even consider upgrading but it's driving me nuts dropping WiFi left and right.

Switching to Android is not an option. I bought the fist Google Galaxy phone a year or more ago and returned it. No push notifications on texts out of the box? It was a Google phone yet it failed to upload the first test video to YouTube??

Anyway my iMac iPad will only play nice with another iPhone so I guess I'm staying but I'll be so pissed if they make a bigger screen come next Sept. when I cant upgrade without paying out the wazoo.

----------




Sorry but when you add two pieces of crap together, Google and Motorola you still get a turd. Sorry, tried a ton of their products and they predominantly fail miserably.



Wait are you in China right now lol? Are the Asian girls actually liking iOS 7?

LIVEFRMNYC
Sep 16, 2013, 12:27 AM
haha no I just think it's funny that non apple fans watch the presentation or the live blog on Cnet and Macrumors just to **** on the iphone. I don't even know anything about the galaxy or the note or the nexus and don't care. I would never watch their presentation of a product.

What I don't get is why people are so mad. Does the new iPhone 5s kill puppies everytime you recharge the battery? And the nexus saves a grandma when you touch the home button :). What was everyone expecting? PS4 graphics and 4k screen on a 7inch screen? My phones are to make calls and quickly answer work emails.

I am in the apple ecosystem and nothing beats me writing a note in class and it being on my iPad/Macbook Air. This is what I have an iPhone.

I just need a new phone and can care less about the graphics or a 64 bit thing. The screen size of my 4s is fine but this is a bit bigger. I don't need a 5-6 inch phone.

So you do need it more for just making calls and quick emails. ;)

throAU
Sep 16, 2013, 12:41 AM
Should qualify this by saying that I own 3 current macs, an apple TV and have owned every generation of iPad, and Iphone(waited in line for first Iphone).

For years I was a apple evangalist, and started using their computers in 1999 when their were real trade offs over windows.

They were always a year or 2 ahead of the competition. Leaders in the industry. Now they are lagging.

I personally sold apple 10-20 iphones over the years converting sceptic feature phone Luddites.

The same thing has happened with android since switching. I probably converted 4-5 people to the note once they saw what kind of tricks you can do with it.

I love apple and really want to come back to iOS someday. But there is no lust left in the Iphone IMO.


I'm running a HTC One at the moment and will be going back to iOS after i've given it a decent few weeks.

UI inconcistency (cancel on the left - why?) bugs, no real performance difference vs. my 4s in actual use, the home button is awkward to hit, the screen is too big to use comfortably with 1 hand (yes, it's true. and i have larger than averge hands), etc.

Sure, I can install third party unsigned software, but other than Wifi scanners, i'm yet to think of anything i'm missing from iOS.

On the other hand my password management isn't as good (1password is read only) and I've had a bug in the countdown timer where it started counting down from the time i entered until i switched to another app - then it went off at a timer setting i'd previously set before.

It just feels like a cobbled together Linux distribution.....

daveathall
Sep 16, 2013, 12:51 AM
I used to wait in line for the new iPhone because it was the best out there. On release IMHO nothing came close. I would look at my current phone and would think that the new iPhone was far better, TBH, I now see the iPhone and that includes the yet to be released iPhone 5S as an "also ran". I know that stand out features wont happen every time but it has been far too long since Apple has wowed me with a killer feature or product, finger print button just doesn't do it for me. I'm sorry to say but (for me) it is just the same old, same old from Apple ATM. I won't be standing in line for the iPhone 5S, I don't see it as better than my SGS4 or for that matter my Nexus 4.

Dreamer2go
Sep 16, 2013, 05:11 AM
I have a Galaxy S4 and iPhone 5
Will upgrade to 5s because of the fact that iOS works for me more. Yeah it's the same so what? But the camera alone justifies an upgarde for me.

S4's camera to me is decent, but it's hard to use, not that user friendly. (e.g. lots of steps to find burst mode)

My S4 is customized to look as pretty as it can be (in my eyes). However, it's a Samsung phone, with tons of gimmicks, which might be cool to see at first, but in terms of practicality, I think iPhone wins.

Both system have its merits, but iPhone suits me more.

Dmaynard83
Sep 16, 2013, 08:50 AM
I have a Galaxy S4 and iPhone 5
Will upgrade to 5s because of the fact that iOS works for me more. Yeah it's the same so what? But the camera alone justifies an upgarde for me.

S4's camera to me is decent, but it's hard to use, not that user friendly. (e.g. lots of steps to find burst mode)

My S4 is customized to look as pretty as it can be (in my eyes). However, it's a Samsung phone, with tons of gimmicks, which might be cool to see at first, but in terms of practicality, I think iPhone wins.

Both system have its merits, but iPhone suits me more.

Yeah I'm starting to think the same after trying the note 2 and s4 within the last year.

Michael Goff
Sep 16, 2013, 09:52 AM
In before the 5S sells about 5 million within a couple days...

Jacoblee23
Sep 16, 2013, 11:39 AM
The S4 is pretty impressive thus far. I just switched from the iPhone 5.

matttye
Sep 16, 2013, 12:00 PM
In before the 5S sells about 5 million within a couple days...

I don't know if it's the same people every year that make these predictions of Apple treading water, Apple's imminent doom, etc., but every single year there's a thread like this and every year Apple smashes previous records.

It's quite funny to watch.

robanga
Sep 16, 2013, 12:04 PM
I don't know if it's the same people every year that make these predictions of Apple treading water, Apple's imminent doom, etc., but every single year there's a thread like this and every year Apple smashes previous records.

It's quite funny to watch.

Indeed. This type of product has become a mainstream commodity in just a few years. It is THE personal computer for many people. " The Apple can't survive without Steve Jobs" contingent is also chomping at the bit.

Meanwhile, Apple continues to do just fine. You'd love to have their balance sheet in any business.

crzdcolombian
Sep 16, 2013, 12:12 PM
I think it comes down to cost. For $200 get the new iphone but if it's free 4s or Galaxy 4 get a Galaxy which is super nice. For 100 bucks for a 5c or 100 bucks for a Note. It can go either way on

I just don't get what people want from a phone? Or even their products they cry about no retina on a ipad mini. I have one and it's spectacular !!! It doesn't cure cancer..... well nothing does yet...

I have a 4s now and think the screen is plenty big. The extra half inch is ok but not something I am dying to have.

Also resale value. I got a free galaxy 4 at work. sold it on craigslist for $250 a couple months back. I had about 3 people message me. I have a iphone 4s 16gb that is 2 years old and have 15 people offering me $300 for it. :D (free phones every time)

I just wish Apple would bump up the memory on these things or at least make the difference not so high. They should be 32gb. Or to make the jump it should be $50 like most other phones make them. $200 bucks more for a 64 gb one is a rip off.

AutoUnion39
Sep 16, 2013, 12:14 PM
I think it comes down to cost. For $200 get the new iphone but if it's free 4s or Galaxy 4 get a Galaxy which is super nice. For 100 bucks for a 5c or 100 bucks for a Note. It can go either way on

I just don't get what people want from a phone? Or even their products they cry about no retina on a ipad mini. I have one and it's spectacular !!! It doesn't cure cancer..... well nothing does yet...

I have a 4s now and think the screen is plenty big. The extra half inch is ok but not something I am dying to have.

Also resale value. I got a free galaxy 4 at work. sold it on craigslist for $250 a couple months back. I had about 3 people message me. I have a iphone 4s 16gb that is 2 years old and have 15 people offering me $300 for it. :D (free phones every time)

$250? You got taken.

$450 minimum these days. (Unless it's Sprint)

Donki
Sep 16, 2013, 01:26 PM
What I don't get about this whole argument is people trying to push other people ideals and needs on others, why is it necessary? If you want Andriod buy Andriod if you want Apple buy Apple it really is that simple. I like Apple, I like using iTunes therefore I will update my iPhone 4 to the 5s. For me I don't want a huge screen on my phone, I personally have no need for it, that's why I have my Mini or my full sized pad.

What really does make me laugh is that it is consttly Andriod lovers who seem to make threads like this why is there a need for it? Go buy your Andriod device and be happy, il be happy with Apple, just personal choice. Again everything I say is my opinion.

InuNacho
Sep 16, 2013, 01:40 PM
I don't know if anybody has mentioned it yet, but I can see that fingerprint reader as a huge step forwards. Places like Starbucks accept those preloaded cards and Home Depot accepts Paypal, why not make these kinds of phone payments safer and easier for the end user by making sure they and only they can make such payments.

I think it'd be kinda cool to just have my drivers license in my phone and case and the ability to make all payments off of a phone that is locked to me and only me.

Anonymous Freak
Sep 16, 2013, 01:53 PM
Simple fact is: Apple generally doesn't need "gadget guys" past the first generation of a product.

The iPod was for 'gadget guys'. Once the third generation model came out (with the dock connector and full Windows support,) it was a mass-consumer product.

The iPhone was for 'gadget guys'. Once the iPhone 3G came out, it was a mass-consumer product.

The iPad was for 'gadget guys'. By the time the iPad 2 came out, it was a mass-consumer product.

To be blunt: at this point in the product cycle, Apple doesn't care about the ultra-high-end early adopters. They care about the mass market.

JH-
Sep 16, 2013, 01:53 PM
The S4 is pretty impressive thus far. I just switched from the iPhone 5.

Any overheating issues on your S4? Specifically while on calls or on the Internet up near the earpiece?

JeffiJers
Sep 16, 2013, 02:32 PM
i Want to like the iphone because I truly love my retina macbook.

After owning an iphone5 & ipad4... selling them both and currently on a Google S4 I just cant take that plunge back into IOS.

Sure I like the build quality of every Apple product but the locked down App store on IOS just wont do with what I need in a portable.


I agree with OPie 100%

robanga
Sep 16, 2013, 02:54 PM
What I don't get about this whole argument is people trying to push other people ideals and needs on others, why is it necessary? If you want Andriod buy Andriod if you want Apple buy Apple it really is that simple. I like Apple, I like using iTunes therefore I will update my iPhone 4 to the 5s. For me I don't want a huge screen on my phone, I personally have no need for it, that's why I have my Mini or my full sized pad.

What really does make me laugh is that it is consttly Andriod lovers who seem to make threads like this why is there a need for it? Go buy your Andriod device and be happy, il be happy with Apple, just personal choice. Again everything I say is my opinion.

Because the media and entertainment in general feed " winners and losers" theories of the world constantly. Everyone loves the train wreck that they can't keep their eyes off. Every star is followed by paparazzi waiting for them to screw up.

Everything is an iPhone "killer" soon we will be talking about Google "killers" and Facebook too.

As an Android enthusiast ( and Apple too ), i don't want anyone to lose and crash. We need at least three platforms out there to keep up the competitive pressure on all.

skratch77
Sep 16, 2013, 03:08 PM
If apple put out a 4.7 in 1080p IPS phone with nfc, notification led and a 13mp true tone flash along with a quad core and 3gb of ram without the finger print scanner there stock would of been up 50 bucks instead of down 50 and a loss of 35-40 billion in market share.

2 people at work waited to see what apple was doing on the 10th and both said they are leaving apple.

The buzz around my work is iPhone 5 same!

AppleRobert
Sep 16, 2013, 05:11 PM
If apple put out a 4.7 in 1080p IPS phone with nfc, notification led and a 13mp true tone flash along with a quad core and 3gb of ram without the finger print scanner there stock would of been up 50 bucks instead of down 50 and a loss of 35-40 billion in market share.

2 people at work waited to see what apple was doing on the 10th and both said they are leaving apple.

The buzz around my work is iPhone 5 same!

Amen to some extent.

I understand a company sticking with what works but for Xmas sake, you released a smaller more portable Ipad with lesser specs and look what happened with that!!!!

C'mon Apple, you didn't learn something?? You could at least offer different larger screen sizes for the iPhone and I bet you would not be able to produce them as fast as they would sell.

The 5C is a total joke.

Black Magic
Sep 16, 2013, 05:55 PM
If apple put out a 4.7 in 1080p IPS phone with nfc, notification led and a 13mp true tone flash along with a quad core and 3gb of ram without the finger print scanner there stock would of been up 50 bucks instead of down 50 and a loss of 35-40 billion in market share.

2 people at work waited to see what apple was doing on the 10th and both said they are leaving apple.

The buzz around my work is iPhone 5 same!

Almost everything you stated above that you feel would have brought the stock up is a waste outside of maybe a larger screen size that would probably grab a few extra folks. Let's go through them since you seem caught up on spec sheets:

1. NFC is pretty much worthless and not really used for much. Ok, you will probably tell me how you have cards left around at various locations but seriously it's worthless.

2. 13mp is worthless if nothing else was improved. We don't need bigger image files. You want better images. Apple delivered on the camera. Apparently you buy things where the packaging shows a larger number. I'm thinking names like GEFORCE 9800GTX Ultra gets your attention.

3. 3GB of RAM. Why? Android lags, iOS is fluid and stable. Again, spec sheet whoring without knowing how it would make things better.

skratch77
Sep 16, 2013, 06:15 PM
Almost everything you stated above that you feel would have brought the stock up is a waste outside of maybe a larger screen size that would probably grab a few extra folks. Let's go through them since you seem caught up on spec sheets:

1. NFC is pretty much worthless and not really used for much. Ok, you will probably tell me how you have cards left around at various locations but seriously it's worthless.

2. 13mp is worthless if nothing else was improved. We don't need bigger image files. You want better images. Apple delivered on the camera. Apparently you buy things where the packaging shows a larger number. I'm thinking names like GEFORCE 9800GTX Ultra gets your attention.

3. 3GB of RAM. Why? Android lags, iOS is fluid and stable. Again, spec sheet whoring without knowing how it would make things better.

1 I just used NFC to buy a pair of sneakers at the mall.NFC transfers are not just cards laying around.put my cell up to the scanner and accepted payment.

2 mp does matter and I'll be the first to laugh in your face when the iPhone 6 has a 13 mp.you people said the same exact thing when competitors went to 8mp

3 wtf is good about 64 bit when developers can't take advantage of it with more system ram? I can think of a few game devs that would enjoy more ram and programs can start being mulitasked with more system memory.

4 people like you are the reason apple does mild updates!

5 you forgot about the led notication light

Carlanga
Sep 16, 2013, 06:17 PM
....

It is hard to feel excited about that new Iphone when the dorky guy in the office is playing games on his 5.7 inch phone with a ps3 controller. Then plugging it into his Sony car stereo with full mirroring, all the while torrenting the last season of game of thrones. ....

Yeah, I bet his battery lasts a full 2 mins w/ all of that... :rolleyes: Did he bring his bookbag to carry the controller AND the huge phone that won't fit comfortably in his pants?

I love how you say that now apple is treading water since the 4S... Need I remind you that it took how long for the iPhone to get copy/paste or bluetooth. My windows phone could do hundreds of things the iPhone could not, until the 3GS came along. What I'm saying is they have always being this way and the way iOS products have been released is the same, the only one that has changed is you.

As for me, the 5S is much better improvement since I unlock my phone at least 20 times every hour. The more refined and faster I can work with my things the better.

I'm geeky like you, I have a tablet w/ android (w. cyanogen fw) and it has many tweaks. While I like it and find android tablets great for the price I find they can't compare to the experience of using an iPad. The same I can say about using android phones and the iPhone. I can stay on tablets w/ android due to price, but the extra things you can do are never as easy as just doing it on my computer. Like for example, why would I want to torrent GoT, eat my data and my battery while mirroring another thing. I'm all for multitasking, but I buy my stuff for stuff I need not for showing off and so far the iPhone is the best one of the bunch by miles.

Black Magic
Sep 16, 2013, 07:10 PM
1 I just used NFC to buy a pair of sneakers at the mall.NFC transfers are not just cards laying around.put my cell up to the scanner and accepted payment.

2 mp does matter and I'll be the first to laugh in your face when the iPhone 6 has a 13 mp.you people said the same exact thing when competitors went to 8mp

3 wtf is good about 64 bit when developers can't take advantage of it with more system ram? I can think of a few game devs that would enjoy more ram and programs can start being mulitasked with more system memory.

4 people like you are the reason apple does mild updates!

5 you forgot about the led notication light

Easy Bronco! Read my responses carefully before replying.

1. Ok, so you found one shop that uses NFC for payments. That is the exception and not the rule. And before you go all butt hurt, read threads in this forum about NFC and google it.

2. Megapixel Class in session.... (http://www.cnet.com/8301-17918_1-57423240-85/camera-megapixels-why-more-isnt-always-better-smartphones-unlocked/)

3. iOS is already buttery smooth. Android when it has Touchwiz and HTC Sense on it are laggy. Why Apple went 64bit....Class in session.... (http://www.zdnet.com/why-apple-went-64-bit-with-the-iphone-5s-7000020662/)

4. *Sigh*

5. Notification light is cool. I don't need it and I doubt Apple's stock price would have shot up because of it.

6. The S upgrades have always been like this. 6 will be the redesign and all that.

Did you buy the GEFORCE 2800000GTX SUPER ULTIMATE Edition yet? I hear it's a beast! ;)

skratch77
Sep 16, 2013, 07:41 PM
Easy Bronco! Read my responses carefully before replying.

1. Ok, so you found one shop that uses NFC for payments. That is the exception and not the rule. And before you go all butt hurt, read threads in this forum about NFC and google it.

2. Megapixel Class in session.... (http://www.cnet.com/8301-17918_1-57423240-85/camera-megapixels-why-more-isnt-always-better-smartphones-unlocked/)

3. iOS is already buttery smooth. Android when it has Touchwiz and HTC Sense on it are laggy. Why Apple went 64bit....Class in session.... (http://www.zdnet.com/why-apple-went-64-bit-with-the-iphone-5s-7000020662/)

4. *Sigh*

5. Notification light is cool. I don't need it and I doubt Apple's stock price would have shot up because of it.

6. The S upgrades have always been like this. 6 will be the redesign and all that.

Did you buy the GEFORCE 2800000GTX SUPER ULTIMATE Edition yet? I hear it's a beast! ;)

Blah blah blah

I'll bring this thread back to life when iPhone 6s gets all of the things I mentioned and see what your response is when they have.

13+mp(odd how your link says not always better)
More ram to take advantage of 64 bit programing
Led light
And last but not least NFC

Until then enjoy your finger print sensor

I use NFC payments all the time also so maybe next time you leave from the little town your from and see the real world you can see how many places use NFC...heck even the coke machines in my area have them.

Even McDonalds takes them

BTW typed this on a Google edition gs4 and my PC has a gtx770 card in and I actually use 8gb of ram to take advantage of my x64 windows setup along with 8 threads

onthecouchagain
Sep 16, 2013, 07:46 PM
iPhone 6 truly will be interesting, though. I'm eager to see what Apple will decide to do with screen sizes. Will they increase the screen again? And if so, how large? Will they offer multiple current-gen screen sizes?

What will iOS 8 bring?

Whatever it is they decide on, it'll likely be the look for the next two years (iPhone 6S).

The Game 161
Sep 16, 2013, 07:47 PM
iPhone 6 truly will be interesting, though. I'm eager to see what Apple will decide to do with screen sizes. Will they increase the screen again? And if so, how large? Will they offer multiple current-gen screen sizes?

What will iOS 8 bring?

Whatever it is they decide on, it'll likely be the look for the next two years (iPhone 6S).

Apple don't have any choice but to up the screen size...it's do or die for them when it comes to screen size. it needs to be 4.5 at least.

onthecouchagain
Sep 16, 2013, 07:48 PM
Apple don't have any choice but to up the screen size...it's do or die for them when it comes to screen size. it needs to be 4.5 at least.

Many said do or die for Apple this year too if they don't offer a larger screen...

(I guess that's still to be determined. I have a feeling the 5S and 5C will both sell quite well, though.)

The Game 161
Sep 16, 2013, 07:51 PM
Many said do or die for Apple this year too if they don't offer a larger screen...

(I guess that's still to be determined. I have a feeling the 5S and 5C will both sell quite well, though.)

Nah I think most knew the 5S would be a minor upgrade and the screen size would stay the same. the iphone 6 is what people want to see a big upgrade and a screen size is a must.

damitssam
Sep 16, 2013, 07:54 PM
Easy Bronco! Read my responses carefully before replying.

1. Ok, so you found one shop that uses NFC for payments. That is the exception and not the rule. And before you go all butt hurt, read threads in this forum about NFC and google it.

2. Megapixel Class in session.... (http://www.cnet.com/8301-17918_1-57423240-85/camera-megapixels-why-more-isnt-always-better-smartphones-unlocked/)

3. iOS is already buttery smooth. Android when it has Touchwiz and HTC Sense on it are laggy. Why Apple went 64bit....Class in session.... (http://www.zdnet.com/why-apple-went-64-bit-with-the-iphone-5s-7000020662/)

4. *Sigh*

5. Notification light is cool. I don't need it and I doubt Apple's stock price would have shot up because of it.

6. The S upgrades have always been like this. 6 will be the redesign and all that.

Did you buy the GEFORCE 2800000GTX SUPER ULTIMATE Edition yet? I hear it's a beast! ;)

NFC is almost there. In Asia every subway card is NFC. Once they integrate the payment scheme, I can see it becoming VERY useful.

Yes the sensor is not bad, still behind the Z1, 1020, possibly even the g2. Truth be told it aint ground breaking

The Icon system still sucks donkey.... after using the 920 and being used to my schedule updating in real time and full emails showing up as they come instead of having to keep clicking in and out.

Screen size really you dont appreciate it until you go up. I went up from a 4 to a 920 and really I cant go back.

All in all looks like apple is settling on the female market, which means sadly screen size is gonna stay small to fit smaller hands. Making more "pretty colors" and "tech friendly for non-techie people".

Black Magic
Sep 16, 2013, 07:54 PM
Many said do or die for Apple this year too if they don't offer a larger screen...

(I guess that's still to be determined. I have a feeling the 5S and 5C will both sell quite well, though.)

I'm happy with 4in but its been rumored for like a year now that Apple is going to up the screen size. Remember the iPhone Math (Plus) rumors? What about the rumor the other day about them looking at sizes up to 6in?

I'm thinking it's more when than if.

The Game 161
Sep 16, 2013, 07:56 PM
be funny if apple go for 6 inch iphone 6...that would be extreme from 4 inches to 6.

onthecouchagain
Sep 16, 2013, 07:59 PM
be funny if apple go for 6 inch iphone 6...that would be extreme from 4 inches to 6.

Well, they are determined to get it just right. They don't release anything until they've gotten it just right. Didn't you know?

Wonder how they'll reconcile the all important "one hand use". Nearly all their videos are littered "... but you can still experience the iPhone with just one hand."

Then again, they say the iPad Mini can be used one handed. But somehow, other large screen devices can't. : shrug : It's a crazy Apple world!

SlCKB0Y
Sep 17, 2013, 07:19 AM
It's called MacRumors.

And yet here we are, posting in the "Alternatives to iOS and iOS Devices" subforum! :rolleyes:

----------

but every single year there's a thread like this and every year Apple smashes previous records.


And yet every year their market share dwindles and people like you fail to grasp the simple concept that whilst each iPhone sells more than the previous one, the growth of the smart phone market is massively outpacing that growth.

aneftp
Sep 17, 2013, 07:38 AM
And yet here we are, posting in the "Alternatives to iOS and iOS Devices" subforum! :rolleyes:

----------



And yet every year their market share dwindles and people like you fail to grasp the simple concept that whilst each iPhone sells more than the previous one, the growth of the smart phone market is massively outpacing that growth.

Slight correction. The growth of high end smartphones has essentially grounded to a halt. Even the S4 is selling much less than expected

It's the growth of "cheaper" smartphones in third world countries that's the key these days

Apple isn't willing to cut their profit margins. But it's just a fact of life these days. Samsung profit margin has eroded. Apple profit margins are also down (there was tell tell sign that 50% of Q2 Verizon Apple sales were from older iPhone 4S and 4 devices). .

Fireblade
Sep 17, 2013, 07:56 AM
5 you forgot about the led notication light

It is worthless, until Apple will have it. ;)

AppleRobert
Sep 17, 2013, 09:39 AM
Many said do or die for Apple this year too if they don't offer a larger screen...

(I guess that's still to be determined. I have a feeling the 5S and 5C will both sell quite well, though.)

What is the compelling reason to buy the 5C?

If this is not just the iPhone 5 in different colors, Apple best start sending memos to stores asking them to increase awareness to employees. It is the same story I have been told in every store I have been in since the 5C was announced.

jrswizzle
Sep 17, 2013, 10:14 AM
What is the compelling reason to buy the 5C?

If this is not just the iPhone 5 in different colors, Apple best start sending memos to stores asking them to increase awareness to employees. It is the same story I have been told in every store I have been in since the 5C was announced.

5S = for those who want the latest and greatest. I really, truly believe Apple will sell less of these than of....

5C = for those simply looking for an upgrade.

If you think about it, the 5C is appealing to the general consumer for a few reasons. It's colorful (there's a market for colorful), durable (plastic + steel frame), and cheaper than the 5S.

So say a parent walks into an AT&T store needing to get phones. Maybe a few upgrades for the her and teenage daughter Marie, and little Timmy just reached smartphone age (whatever you think that is). Mom has always had an iPhone and isn't really all that into technology. Kids see colorful iPhones, recognize the iPhone (because mom has one) and immediately want it. Mom sees price tag of $99 (on-contract) and says, "Sure - not too bad".

She may see the 5S and get it for herself. Dad might want the 5S because he's into tech. But for the kids? 5C all the way.

People here forget - the way we forum goers think is VASTLY different than the way the average consumer thinks.

I can see the above scenario happening A LOT. Which is why, while 5C preorders haven't blown up, the 5C will still be very popular as an "impulse buy", walk-in purchase.

Dmunjal
Sep 17, 2013, 11:45 AM
I'd rather just go back to iPhone if I had to get a HTC one.

At least with Samsung phones I can swap out batteries and add storage space.

TouchWiz is part of the problem. At least Samsung offers the S4 in pure Android form as well (Google Edition).

matttye
Sep 17, 2013, 12:52 PM
And yet every year their market share dwindles and people like you fail to grasp the simple concept that whilst each iPhone sells more than the previous one, the growth of the smart phone market is massively outpacing that growth.

I don't think that matters. So long as Apple's own growth is growing, that's a sign that they're not 'treading water' or struggling.

Let me tell you why I think that...

Android goes for the low end, mid range and high end/premium markets.

Apple goes only for the high end/premium market. Even last year's iPhone is more expensive than most Android/other phones.

Even with the introduction of the 5c, they haven't gone for any less than the high end/premium market.

When you can pick up an Android phone for like £50 SIM free, how can Apple compete with that? :p

I don't think Apple cares what share of the global smartphone market it has when it still has the lion's share of the profits (although there is an ongoing debate over which company is the most profitable at the moment; Samsung or Apple).

You also have to ask yourself why Apple's number of users is growing year after year when Google is practically giving away great phones like the Nexus 4. It's because people love the iPhone. According to uSwitch, the iPhone 5, 4S and 4 (in that order) are still the best selling smartphones in the UK, with the Galaxy S4 and S3 in fourth and fifth place.

Android has saturated the market with thousands of phones at all price points and still the iPhone maintains a decent market share in some countries, including the US. There's no way they'll ever take the global smartphone marketshare lead from Android, but merely keeping up bearing in mind all I've said above is no mean feat.

kdarling
Sep 19, 2013, 07:44 AM
(re: bigger screen)

Wonder how they'll reconcile the all important "one hand use". Nearly all their videos are littered "... but you can still experience the iPhone with just one hand."

Then again, they say the iPad Mini can be used one handed. But somehow, other large screen devices can't. : shrug : It's a crazy Apple world!

Yep, Jon Ive himself claimed the iPad mini was usable with one hand. Go to about 2:10 of the Apple intro video:

qL0UlqpfuQc

"We felt strongly that 7.9" was exactly the right display size. But it became clear that we had to reduce the width of the borders, so you can still pick it up and easily use it with one hand."

If he says an almost 8" screen is usable with one hand, then 6" should be super easy :)

Oohara
Sep 19, 2013, 08:52 AM
Yep, Jon Ive himself claimed the iPad mini was usable with one hand. Go to about 2:10 of the Apple intro video:

YouTube: video (http://youtube.com/watch?v=qL0UlqpfuQc)

"We felt strongly that 7.9" was exactly the right display size. But it became clear that we had to reduce the width of the borders, so you can still pick it up and easily use it with one hand."

If he says an almost 8" screen is usable with one hand, then 6" should be super easy :)

ROFL. That is rich.

I think I'll print that line on a T-shirt, across his nauseatingly over-sincere face, and just go strutting through the nearest Apple store whilst speaking on my future Note 3.

onthecouchagain
Sep 19, 2013, 09:00 AM
Yep, Jon Ive himself claimed the iPad mini was usable with one hand. Go to about 2:10 of the Apple intro video:

YouTube: video (http://youtube.com/watch?v=qL0UlqpfuQc)

"We felt strongly that 7.9" was exactly the right display size. But it became clear that we had to reduce the width of the borders, so you can still pick it up and easily use it with one hand."

If he says an almost 8" screen is usable with one hand, then 6" should be super easy :)

Yup! And he says easily used with one hand.

I've pointed this out quite a few times myself:



In the official iPad Mini video, Ive explicitly says "...you can still pick it up and easily use it with one hand..." Easily!. Earlier in the video, they make the distinction that you can hold it with one hand, but at the 2:10 mark, they're clearly talking about using it with one hand.

Video is here: http://www.apple.com/ipad-mini/overview/#video-ipad-mini-features)

Going by that reasoning, any device can be used one handed, yet according to their iPhone 5 campaign, one of the main talking points is that anything larger than a 4" smartphone is unusable with one hand.

So either the iPad Mini can be used one handed (like it says in the video) and therefore so can other smaller smartphones, or nothing above the iPhone 5 screen size (like it says in the iPhone campaigns) can be used one handed in which case the iPad Mini video is a lie.

----------

ROFL. That is rich.

I think I'll print that line on a T-shirt, across his nauseatingly over-sincere face, and just go strutting through the nearest Apple store whilst speaking on my future Note 3.

Once again, Apple marketing for the win.

jrswizzle
Sep 19, 2013, 04:16 PM
FYI - Anandtech's in depth review on the iPhone 5S.....

More of the same my......

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7335/the-iphone-5s-review

rillrill
Sep 19, 2013, 04:37 PM
does anyone know if apple is tackling multiple screen sizes like google is in android 4.4? you'd think the iphone 6 would move up to at least 5". ive could call it, "unapologetically large."

onthecouchagain
Sep 19, 2013, 04:40 PM
does anyone know if apple is tackling multiple screen sizes like google is in android 4.4? you'd think the iphone 6 would move up to at least 5". ive could call it, "unapologetically large."

The Wall Street Journal reports that Apple is testing larger iPhone displays, ranging from 4.8 to 6 inches.

http://9to5mac.com/2013/09/05/wsj-apple-testing-larger-iphone-screens-some-up-to-six-inches/

You'll likely hear the same rhetoric.

"Here at Apple, we didn't want to increase screen size for the sake of increasing screen size, we wanted to truly get it just right. Our primary focus is still the experience. And we discovered that in order to maintain the same experience that everyone loves about the iPhone, we had to design a screen that is precisely XX inches. We truly believe this is the perfect size."

/Ive

AppleRobert
Sep 19, 2013, 05:27 PM
The Wall Street Journal reports that Apple is testing larger iPhone displays, ranging from 4.8 to 6 inches.

http://9to5mac.com/2013/09/05/wsj-apple-testing-larger-iphone-screens-some-up-to-six-inches/

You'll likely hear the same rhetoric.

"Here at Apple, we didn't want to increase screen size for the sake of increasing screen size, we wanted to truly get it just right. Our primary focus is still the experience. And we discovered that in order to maintain the same experience that everyone loves about the iPhone, we had to design a screen that is precisely XX inches. We truly believe this is the perfect size."

/Ive

Geez, ever think of increasing the screen size to attract some folks that want it but bought something else instead???

rillrill
Sep 19, 2013, 07:18 PM
right, but are they making sure there wont be fragmentation like google is doing?

onthecouchagain
Sep 19, 2013, 07:44 PM
An interesting Tumblr of all of iOS 7's "Sloppy UI" collected and pictured: http://sloppyui.tumblr.com/

And I keep reading about iOS 7 giving people motion sickness and headaches... Are the UI animations that bad? I'm tempted to go to an Apple store to try it out.

ReanimationN
Sep 19, 2013, 08:02 PM
Ruh roh, couchy's salivating over people being critical of iOS 7. :D

Some of the animations are irritating though, Apple has some cleaning up to do.

Dmunjal
Sep 19, 2013, 08:48 PM
right, but are they making sure there wont be fragmentation like google is doing?

How would there be fragmentation? They keep the same resolution and increase to about 4.3" and still maintain Retina. Apps don't need to change.

Even if they do change resolution, what happens when they eventually do get a larger iPhone? Won't they eventually have that problem?

onthecouchagain
Sep 19, 2013, 08:51 PM
Some of the animations are irritating though, Apple has some cleaning up to do.

Are you concerned about the apparent lag of iOS 7? If I recall correctly, you can't accept even milliseconds of lag.

ReanimationN
Sep 19, 2013, 09:44 PM
Are you concerned about the apparent lag of iOS 7? If I recall correctly, you can't accept even milliseconds of lag.

I'm running it on my iPhone 5 and I'm seeing very little in the way of actual lag, there is some, mind you, and more than there was in iOS 6 (not much more though), the main problem is the speed of the animations. Most of them are just too slow- transitions that were quick and snappy on iOS 6 now take far too long. It's probably only milliseconds difference, but yes, the apparent speed of navigating the OS feels slower. Not a lot slower, but enough to irritate me.

Apple certainly has some work to do, hopefully everything gets tightened up in a point release soon.

onthecouchagain
Sep 19, 2013, 09:58 PM
I'm running it on my iPhone 5 and I'm seeing very little in the way of actual lag, there is some, mind you, and more than there was in iOS 6 (not much more though), the main problem is the speed of the animations. Most of them are just too slow- transitions that were quick and snappy on iOS 6 now take far too long. It's probably only milliseconds difference, but yes, the apparent speed of navigating the OS feels slower. Not a lot slower, but enough to irritate me.

Apple certainly has some work to do, hopefully everything gets tightened up in a point release soon.

Interesting. Thanks for sharing that. I do hope it gets better too.

I have (had?) high hopes for the future of iOS especially when it comes time for a larger screen iPhone, whenever that may be.

onthecouchagain
Sep 20, 2013, 12:47 PM
Glowing review of the 5S from Verge:

http://www.theverge.com/2013/9/20/4752296/apple-iphone-5s-review

The most remarkable thing Apple did with the iPhone 5S was to change everything while appearing to change almost nothing. The processor’s faster, the camera’s brighter, and the software’s a little smarter. But rather than club you to death with features to prove just how many things this phone can do, the iPhone 5S simply does everything it did before, better. Even the new things feel integrated, and obvious — Touch ID has quickly come to feel completely natural, and slow-motion video now feels notably absent from the iPhone 5. There aren’t two dozen different multitasking systems or countless camera modes; the 5S is just more capable and more intuitive than ever before. It’s easily the best iPhone ever made, and maybe the best smartphone ever made.

Dmunjal
Sep 20, 2013, 01:46 PM
Glowing review of the 5S from Verge:

http://www.theverge.com/2013/9/20/4752296/apple-iphone-5s-review

The most remarkable thing Apple did with the iPhone 5S was to change everything while appearing to change almost nothing. The processor’s faster, the camera’s brighter, and the software’s a little smarter. But rather than club you to death with features to prove just how many things this phone can do, the iPhone 5S simply does everything it did before, better. Even the new things feel integrated, and obvious — Touch ID has quickly come to feel completely natural, and slow-motion video now feels notably absent from the iPhone 5. There aren’t two dozen different multitasking systems or countless camera modes; the 5S is just more capable and more intuitive than ever before. It’s easily the best iPhone ever made, and maybe the best smartphone ever made.

Imagine how much better it would be with a larger screen? :)

onthecouchagain
Sep 20, 2013, 01:51 PM
Imagine how much better it would be with a larger screen? :)

And a more flexible OS.

The Verge's review of iOS 7, I think, is spot on: http://www.theverge.com/2013/9/18/4741724/ios-7-review

There's always 2014! But seriously, 2014 will be a far more interesting year for the iPhone.

Peterg2
Sep 20, 2013, 03:20 PM
And a more flexible OS.

The Verge's review of iOS 7, I think, is spot on: http://www.theverge.com/2013/9/18/4741724/ios-7-review

There's always 2014! But seriously, 2014 will be a far more interesting year for the iPhone.

A far more detailed and analytical review of iOS 7 is here:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7343/the-ios-7-review

AppleRobert
Sep 20, 2013, 05:00 PM
A far more detailed and analytical review of iOS 7 is here:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7343/the-ios-7-review

Bookmarked. Thanks!

FWIW, local Best Buy has plenty 5c but no 5s in stock.

rillrill
Sep 20, 2013, 05:10 PM
fights for iphones....this no preorder thing was stupid from the beginning. i hope apple gets some bad press for this.

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-homeless-iphone-fight-20130920,0,2207612.story

Peterg2
Sep 20, 2013, 05:21 PM
fights for iphones....this no preorder thing was stupid from the beginning. i hope apple gets some bad press for this.

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-homeless-iphone-fight-20130920,0,2207612.story

Apple had production issues with the 5S. That is not some deep, dark secret. What were they supposed to do? Simply advise no in-store sales and sell online for an extremely short period?

I cannot understand why Apple should be held responsible for some lunatic criminal element.

rillrill
Sep 20, 2013, 05:52 PM
Apple had production issues with the 5S. That is not some deep, dark secret. What were they supposed to do? Simply advise no in-store sales and sell online for an extremely short period?

I cannot understand why Apple should be held responsible for some lunatic criminal element.

so there ceo, the mastermind behind shipping millions of devices all over the world, could not make enough devices for a preorder for those that want the phone? don't be so naive. they want lines. they want it in the news.

onthecouchagain
Sep 20, 2013, 05:55 PM
so there ceo, the mastermind behind shipping millions of devices all over the world, could not make enough devices for a preorder for those that want the phone? don't be so naive. they want lines. they want it in the news.

I'm highly skeptical of tactics like this. It just doesn't make sense. They'd rather sell more units than less just to create buzz. From a business standpoint, that makes little sense.

And a CEO as smart of Tim Cook would know that.

I forgot where I read it, but there is an article out there that explains perfectly why using such tactics is actually not advantageous for business.

Peterg2
Sep 20, 2013, 05:56 PM
so there ceo, the mastermind behind shipping millions of devices all over the world, could not make enough devices for a preorder for those that want the phone? don't be so naive. they want lines. they want it in the news.

To get back to your original point, Apple is supposed to get bad press for some douchebag criminal element? Where the hell did personal responsibility go?

To add a point, even if there were pre-orders, there would still have been lines and some units would still have been sold out. How many other stories are there other than the Pasadena one? If you read the story, you would see this was a particular situation, with someone hiring homeless people to stand in line (which happens, unfortunately, very often).

onthecouchagain
Sep 20, 2013, 06:35 PM
A far more detailed and analytical review of iOS 7 is here:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7343/the-ios-7-review

Just finished it. Great review.

Sentiments aren't very different from The Verge's, in that iOS is a step in the right direction toward new beginnings.

2014 will be the more interesting year for me.

rillrill
Sep 20, 2013, 06:42 PM
To get back to your original point, Apple is supposed to get bad press for some douchebag criminal element? Where the hell did personal responsibility go?

To add a point, even if there were pre-orders, there would still have been lines and some units would still have been sold out. How many other stories are there other than the Pasadena one? If you read the story, you would see this was a particular situation, with someone hiring homeless people to stand in line (which happens, unfortunately, very often).

my point is, to reiterate, for apple to either start production earlier, or just offer a preorder anyway and sell out of them. either way they'll still sell the thing. its just shameless.

Peterg2
Sep 20, 2013, 06:55 PM
my point is, to reiterate, for apple to either start production earlier, or just offer a preorder anyway and sell out of them. either way they'll still sell the thing. its just shameless.

I am not going to debate this particular point on this thread further but this was a *very particular* matter. Let me quote from the article you posted:

Pasadena Police Lt. Jason Clawson confirmed that a fight broke out about 9 a.m. as a man left the store with multiple iPhones. Several homeless people said the man picked up dozens of people at homeless shelters downtown, drove them to Pasadena and promised to pay them $40 -- $20 for each iPhone voucher they were able to secure.


Clawson said the fight broke out when people who were in line and hired by the man began fighting with him because they said they weren’t being paid enough, Clawson said.

“It didn’t go right. I stood out here all night,” said Dominoe Moody, 43, who said he was picked up along with several vanloads of people at a homeless mission.

Many of the homeless who had been hired to stand in line -- but later stranded at the store -- lingered near the store after the arrests, some hanging out on the corner across the street and a few continuing to stand in line.

Who is fighting with whom exactly? These were unfortunate homeless people who believed they were stiffed by the person hiring them.

unobtainium
Sep 20, 2013, 06:58 PM
my point is, to reiterate, for apple to either start production earlier, or just offer a preorder anyway and sell out of them. either way they'll still sell the thing. its just shameless.

If they could've had enough ready, they would have. Obviously the fingerprint scanner in the home button or the A7 chip had poorer than expected yields. They can't delay the release any further or the stock would plummet. They can't restrict sales to online, because many people don't shop online with credit cards and would cry foul if they didn't have the option of picking one up in stores. Their brick and mortar partners would also be annoyed. So they did the best they could, and some idiots fighting in line has zero to do with Apple.

Vegastouch
Sep 20, 2013, 10:25 PM
And a more flexible OS.

The Verge's review of iOS 7, I think, is spot on: http://www.theverge.com/2013/9/18/4741724/ios-7-review

There's always 2014! But seriously, 2014 will be a far more interesting year for the iPhone.

LOL....been seeing this for the last three years now.
I dont know why this is always a compitition. My phone is better than your phone type thing. I dont know, im not a tech geek. I love tech and know enough to root and install a ROM if i want but i dont do phone after phone purchaces. I stick to what i like and Android is just superior as a phone for me and Apple, for the last couple years just isnt close anymore.

Why am i here? Love the opinions of the many users of different things. Still have my GS3 and didnt really get thrilled enough by the GS4 to buy one and wasnt interested in the HTC One.

Just how i operate. Use what you like, be happy. Ill be interested in a iPhone when Apple announces a more open system and a lot bigger screen. Has to be both though. Til then, Android is King!

Antitryptic
Sep 20, 2013, 10:47 PM
I will definitely be checking out Apple's next iPhone with the hopes that iOS 7 (or iOS 8, perhaps) will be more mature and that it'll be a much bigger improvement over the 5S. *ahem*biggerscreenandopenness*ahem* Hopefully they don't disappoint! :) For now, I'll be sticking to my GE S4 until I feel the need to replace it.

ReanimationN
Sep 20, 2013, 11:28 PM
Interesting. Thanks for sharing that. I do hope it gets better too.

I have (had?) high hopes for the future of iOS especially when it comes time for a larger screen iPhone, whenever that may be.

Yeah, it's not a bad effort for a new start, however iOS is now littered with small annoyances that simply weren't there before. That's not to say that they can't be fixed, they can be, and easily, like the animation speed- just a few tweaks here and there and it'll feel great. I suspect some of the things that annoy me about iOS 7 are 'design decisions' and are going to be permanent though, like the new slit-style scrubber in the music app.

On the other hand, some of the new additions more than make up for some of the annoyances (although some are constantly there- again, the animations), it's definitely a solid upgrade, just one that needs some fine tuning.

rillrill
Sep 21, 2013, 06:15 AM
yeah. though, regardless, investors will complain about not having enough devices in stock. i dont own apple stock. actually, josh on the vergecast this week has a good point about people criticizing apple - saying he really likes apple, but just wants them to do better. im the same. apple made the laptop to not crash and delete my term paper back in 2002. the ipod was great. the first few iphones were great. i love my 2013 air. but i do believe companies need to be responsible for organizing these sale events. the same goes for walmart and black friday. and i still think they did a disservice to they customers by not at least giving the option to preorder, even a few days in advance. im not buying this phone, but if i was, id rather have it delivered a week or two later than waste my time on a line.

onthecouchagain
Sep 21, 2013, 09:03 AM
yeah. though, regardless, investors will complain about not having enough devices in stock. i dont own apple stock. actually, josh on the vergecast this week has a good point about people criticizing apple - saying he really likes apple, but just wants them to do better. im the same. apple made the laptop to not crash and delete my term paper back in 2002. the ipod was great. the first few iphones were great. i love my 2013 air. but i do believe companies need to be responsible for organizing these sale events. the same goes for walmart and black friday. and i still think they did a disservice to they customers by not at least giving the option to preorder, even a few days in advance. im not buying this phone, but if i was, id rather have it delivered a week or two later than waste my time on a line.

Not so sure why you're so hung up on that one isolated event.

Yes apple is responsible for providing stock. And when they fail to they certainly are doing disservice to customers and themselves (again, no company would intentionally not sale more if they could). And just like we hold Google responsible for the lack of stock of the nexus 4, we should hold apple too.

BUT apple has nothing to do with that isolated event. Walmart and black Friday are not an apt comparison as that's companies trying to entice people to bum rush. They call it "door buster sales" for a reason. Apple is just releasing a product. The product is in demand. They're not trying to sale "door busters."

Anyway, this particular topic has been exhausted. Back to the point of this thread....