Anyone Fed-Up with this whole Xbox 360 thing?

[doucy2]

if you ask my personal opinion the xbox 360 is BS

for one it is sell at 2x the retail price
no one will want this rev A POS after x-mas
i advise ppl to not waste you money on this buggy machine
why would you spend $900 now when you can put that toward a new apple

so many ppl are gettign ripped off buying this thing and it driving me absolutly crazy
anyone agree with me??

Micro$oft is the devil for releasing this

post your support or arguments

[generik]

I agree, but just think of it this way.

Fool, money.. enough said.

[davidcb13]

No not really the only thing I find stupid is the people paying 900 for it on ebay....When if they wait 2 weeks they can get it for half that but hey its their money...

About the your half way to a apple statement... that is true but I would say im sure most of the people buying the 360 would not change their mind and get an apple.... An Xbox is for games and a mac isnt.... they are 2 toattly different things

Myself Im waiting for the PS3./

My advice to you.. Calm down why do you care how other people spend their money

[G5Unit]

No not really the only thing I find stupid is the people paying 900 for it on ebay....When if they wait 2 weeks they can get it for half that but hey its their money...

About the your half way to a mac thing... that is true but I would say im sure most of the people buying the 360 would not change their mind and get a mac.... An Xbox is for games and a mac isnt.... they are 2 toattly different things

Why spend 900 bucks on and Xbox? You could buy some gnarly weed with that. Again 2 TOTALY different things.

[JeDiBoYTJ]

with all the fuss about the xbox 360, with people paying $900+ for this system, and not to mention all the problems that this system seems to have (overheating, crashing...etc), i might just wait a few more months after all (although at this point, I dont think I have a choice...)

[ksz]

I am genuinely interested in the Xbox 360 to serve as a media center that also happens to play hi-def games, but I will not pay one dollar above retail. I am very willing to wait until supply catches up with demand. Developers have not yet created games that exploit the potential of the 360, but once they do I think we may see some stunning stuff.

Sony's PS3 won't be available here until a few months after it ships in Japan, and it won't ship in Japan until 2nd half of 2006. Hence we might not see PS3s in store shelves until about this time next year, a whole year away. That might give Xbox developers a good headstart, but a PS3 with a 7-core Cell processor and Blu-Ray would be too juicy to pass up. As a media center controller feeding a home theater, it could be the perfect HTPC.

[davidcb13]

Why spend 900 bucks on and Xbox? You could buy some gnarly weed with that. Again 2 TOTALY different things.

Are you trying to argue with me or back up my point?

[Verto]

if you ask my personal opinion the xbox 360 is BS

for one it is sell at 2x the retail price
no one will want this rev A POS after x-mas
i advise ppl to not waste you money on this buggy machine
why would you spend $900 now when you can put that toward a new apple

so many ppl are gettign ripped off buying this thing and it driving me absolutly crazy
anyone agree with me??

Micro$oft is the devil for releasing this

post your support or arguments

I would say this is a completely pointless thread, and I'm trying to figure out why I even bothered typing a response.

[G5Unit]

Are you trying to argue with me or back up my point?

I'm backing you up, but I'm not agenst Doucy.

[DrNeroCF]

People are stupid, that's just how life works. For 400 bucks you could buy a DS and like 20 games for it. For 900 you're halfway to affording a ps3... If people were smart though, they'd wait for Nintendo's next system, but alas...

[MovieCutter]

I just posted this in another thread, but it seems relevant here.

After playing the XBox 360 and seeing it in action playing Call of Duty...it is probably the most OVERRATED gift this season. My Power Mac plays Battlefront and Call of Duty with far more clarity than that piece of crap does...hell my POWERBOOK plays better. And with 18 games, I can't imagine what people are thinking right now. I'll admit, it's better than any console out there...but not by much. It's a glorified XBox, and when the PS3 comes...nobody will remember the XBox 360 for its graphics ability. Not to mention, I just can't get used to the controller after playing on a keyboard for so long. It is next to impossible to be a sniper with a console controller...far more accurate with the mouse, plus strategy games are non-existant for consoles these days....good ones anyway.

X-Box 360 is good as a console, but it's not that much better than X-Box...and sure as hell no better than my Power Mac. X-Box live on the other hand...

[Laser47]

The 360 is just a fad, everyone goes crazy about the graphics, some game reviewers say that the graphics arent even good enough to call the 360 a "Next Gen" system. You can get better graphics on a pc. Personally im waiting for the Revolution And Xbox.

I get Playstation and Nintendo because they have lots of games avalible exclusively to their system. Most of Xboxes "Exclusive" games end up coming out for pc anyway.

[Dane D.]

Who cares what fools do with their money. It is another console that plays games. It isn't a computer, it's a toy. My bitch is all the free marketing MS gets with it. All the local TV morning news shows are playing it up but, FOX and Friends panned it as a overpriced video game device which is on the mark IMO. I don't own consoles and never will, the control device isn't a keyboard and mouse. Besides it is made by MS, enough said.

[CalGrunt]

....... some game reviewers say that the graphics arent even good enough to call the 360 a "Next Gen" system.

Then those reviewers don't know squat. How can they possibly make a statement like that? There hasn't yet been any games developed that take full advantage of the console. What is a more true statement is that there are no games as of yet on the XBox that are good enough to call them "next generation". We'll have to wait and see what the game developers come up with to be able to pass judgement as to how good or bad the 360 really is.

[fartheststar]

It's getting press because it's new and it doesn't have to compete against the PS3 yet...they'll get a headstart on consoles (ie revenue). I saw it in target on an HDTV playing some game and it didn't look to impressive.

I remember that MS said that they would check whatever specs the PS3 had and trump them. By coming out first they'll get a good "kickstart" but PS3 will beat them hands down when they come out. It'll set records for "off season" buying.

I can't wait - saving my money for the PS3 - probably when it does it's 1st price drop from whatever price it comes out at. (ie a year or so) unless I come up with some good excuse for my wife....:D

[Aarow]

PLEASE, please stop writing Microsoft as Micro$oft.

[generik]

To be quite honest a good Xbox 360 is only one with a mod chip inside. Microsoft thinks they can take control over your living room, I look forward to the day when their console is only good for running Linux in my living room :)

Tri-core processing power, hey, that's some good ****!

[Bear]

I'm fed up with seeing XBox threads posted in Mac specific forums.

[Vster]

I think it's a great system. I got mine yesterday moring and it has been a blast playing it. I've been waiting to be able to play games that take full advantage of my HDTV.:D

On the other hand I see where the OP is coming from. IMO paying $900+ on eBay for the system seems rediculous, but people can spend their money the way they want. But I'm extremely happy with mine.

[clayj]

PLEASE, please stop writing Microsoft as Micro$oft.Seriously. I used to work for Microsoft, and it REALLY pisses me off when people use pejoratives in place of their name.

[DXoverDY]

no what i'm sick of hearing is all these people ranting about systems crashing. there are so few systems crashing and you know HALF of them are people who just hate microsoft and want to make things out to be worse than they are for the sake of it being microsoft.

the dreamcast AND PS2 and problems very similar to the xbox 360's bugs. those systems will be replaced and they'll work fine. i'm guessing that out of the 700,000 units shipped, less than 1% are affected by this. that's not too bad considering.. and you know what, it's probably closer to ~1000 units that have problems.

so, how about people just shut up about it and stop being jealous of people who have one? i don't have one, but from what i can see, microsoft has a nice system and i want one. oh, and i'm about the last person on earth who would like to give microsoft more money. but xbox live and a few games on the xbox make me very very interested.

PGR3 sounds awesome, i loved metropolis street racer on the dreamcast. kameo looks sweet (but can be gotten on the gamecube, maybe even the ps2).
Prey looks bad as all get up, i'm anxious to see the former canceled pc game released. i just wish i could get a mouse and keyboard for the xbox 360 for the first person shooters.

oh and i wish i had a big HDTV to play it on... oh, if i could find one.

i just wish people would quit whining about it. new systems come out how often? once every 4 years or so, shut up and let them have their glory ok? you'll be the ones causing all the commotion when the revolution and ps3 come out, and they'll be thinking the same thing, 'will someone please shut these people up?'

so that said... just shut up and let them talk about it. it's something new, people are excited. in this day and age where we have soldiers dying in a desert, kids who are starving in africa, people dying in car accidents and of cancer and other diseases. why not just let people have their fun?

get over it. some people want an xbox 360. who cares what YOU would do with YOUR money. it's THEIR money to spend, if they want an xbox 360, let them have it. it's money. it's disposable. it was meant to be spent. we work hard to enjoy ourselves. who are you to tell someone how to spend their money. or what to talk about in an open forum.

argh. some people on here just irritate me with their constant whining.

[dotdotdot]

Why does anyone care if people like the XBox 360? Its someones decision to buy one. If someone likes video games, and wants to play them on an incredible game console, why would you care?

for one it is sell at 2x the retail price

Its not over priced - in fact, its underpriced if Microsoft wanted to make a profit on the thing - they lose money for each unit they make! And $399 for three 3.0 GHz PowerPC processors, extreme graphics, a 20 gig hard drive, DVD player, video game player, wireless controller, wireless remote, HDTV cables and more is a great deal for the consumer.

no one will want this rev A POS after x-mas
the funny thing about this: Microsoft said the next time anyone will be able to buy one is most likely after Christmas, so...

i advise ppl to not waste you money on this buggy machine

It isn't waisting money... its spending money on something which will last at LEAST until 2009, which will be fun for that entire time period. And just because some people have had bugs, doesnt mean they all have bugs. Maybe 25% of them do, and those will be replaced by MS.

why would you spend $900 now when you can put that toward a new apple

What the hell? One, its $299 and $399, a game making $359 and $459. Second, not everyone automatically wants a new Mac... and what a weird statement, too... you can put it towards a new apple... You can put that towards anything...

Micro$oft is the devil for releasing this
:rolleyes:

[dotdotdot]

PLEASE, please stop writing Microsoft as Micro$oft.

Also, to anyone who does this, PLEASE stop writing Microsoft with stupid name changes that you think are funny... they really arent. Microsucks is not creative at all.

[katie ta achoo]

It's simple. Supply and demand.
Low supply, high demand.. you can resell it for huge $.

If they wanna spend the huge amounts of cash for it, go nuts. It's not your money. :)

(ooo.. just wait until I'm your stockbroker.. YES!!)

[Lacero]

I think I'm gonna wait and see what games comes out for the PS3 before I decide to buy which system. Microsoft probably rushed out these 360s trying to capitalize on the holiday buying rush.

[CalGrunt]

I think I'm gonna wait and see what games comes out for the PS3 before I decide to buy which system.

So you're gonna wait a year?? That's a long time to wait.

[Gyroscope]

So you're gonna wait a year?? That's a long time to wait.

Not if you have a life. Like having some other things to do other than waiting for game console. :D

Cheers

[Lacero]

I thought it was closer to 6 months when the PS3 debuts in the Spring.

[takao]

Not if you have a life. Like having some other things to do other than waiting for game console. :D

Cheers

or lots of other games which can waste lots of time.. like Civ4.... seriously if i had to choose games of the xbox360 launch line up i woulf choose pgr3 because of racing with cockpit and then perhaps perfect dark zero because i have the old one or condemed ... there are simply no _exclusive_ must haves _for me_ at the moment

[Dagless]

The way I see it, people are getting this excited over a bad system (i'd go into points but its along the lines of paying for online, terrible launch title games, loud, expensive, crashing, overhyped...) imagine what will happen when the Rev is out. You'd get sceptics just like at E3 saying "oh look its that new rev. hey only £130. hm might get one. oops just bought. OMGWTF THIS FEELS BRILLIANT!" possibly.

but yea. fool, money. of course if you want to pay $900/£500 for an interactive money then fine, no skin of my nose! and how obsolete is that thing going to be in years to come? when you could spend it on the best holiday and most memorable holiday ever with a loved one? meh. each to their own.

[hookahco]

hey guys, you know what else is stupid? why would someone pay $150,000 over msrp for a ferrari f430? i mean come on.. how can you pay $400,000 for a stupid car??? why dont they wait until demand goes down and ferrari dealers will be forced to sell them for $230,000. why dont you put that money towards a house??
</sarcasm>

i dont mean to flame, but come on.. its peoples money let them spend it however they want. people drink cognac that costs more than 60-70 xbox 360s (at $500.00 retail/ea.) for a 750ml bottle. does that upset me? yes.. but only because i want that cognac. but is Courvoisier the devil for releasing it? no.
i hate microsoft very very very much but how are they the devil just because they released the xbox? i would think that maintaining a monopoly over the software market is a lot worse.
</rant>
damn.. i just imagined a scale with 60 xbox 360s on one side and a little bottle of L'Esprit de Courvoisier on the other.. and the Esprit tips it. amazing how much people will pay for certain delicacies.

[MacRumorUser]

I pre-orderd two machines back in May of this year. I just sold one of the 360's for 800 Euro on Ebay(double the cost of the machine) and I intend on keeping the other for myself. In affect I got my console for nothing :D Now that's pre-planning.

[Symtex]

I just posted this in another thread, but it seems relevant here.

After playing the XBox 360 and seeing it in action playing Call of Duty...it is probably the most OVERRATED gift this season. My Power Mac plays Battlefront and Call of Duty with far more clarity than that piece of crap does...hell my POWERBOOK plays better. And with 18 games, I can't imagine what people are thinking right now. I'll admit, it's better than any console out there...but not by much. It's a glorified XBox, and when the PS3 comes...nobody will remember the XBox 360 for its graphics ability. Not to mention, I just can't get used to the controller after playing on a keyboard for so long. It is next to impossible to be a sniper with a console controller...far more accurate with the mouse, plus strategy games are non-existant for consoles these days....good ones anyway.

X-Box 360 is good as a console, but it's not that much better than X-Box...and sure as hell no better than my Power Mac. X-Box live on the other hand...

...and the winner for the Fanboy post of the day award is.....MovieCutter.

You, sir, are the most blind fanboy I have ever seen in my life period. First of all, Mac are not very good for games. My PM G5 can barely run Wow at full graphic. Call of Duty 2 looks amazing on a HDTV. Much better then the PC version. The game dev even said so on TV. Do you dare to argue with him ? He made the game for God sake.

It's a glorify xbox ? lol. The X360 is 3 core @ 3.2ghz Processor. The original xbox was a modified P3-733. You don't know what you are talking about.

Plus you toss the same old argument again that mouse+keyboard is better for FPS ...blah..blah... How original. FPS works fine with controller. It's not as precise but it's very manageable.

[silentthunder77]

i was going to buy a 360 but I think i'll buy 500 taco tuesday tacos


and to whoever said it, i think "microsucks" is really funny, and i'm super sophisticated.


i love how people whine like bitches on here, like they have some deep emotional ties to the video gaming world, and it affects them on such a deep level that they have to come and vent.

[calyxman]

Honestly, what is the point of this thread?

[kingcrowing]

man, I love these kinda threads :D

If your so pissed off about people ranting, dont read the thread, nobody is making you, so dont post a 1/2 a page saying why you are pissed off about people doing it.

and I think everyone does have valid points. I would like a 360 very much, I had a chance to pre-order one (I was in EB and the person was like, pre-order the 360 now!!), and I could have gone to my local Best Buy to get one too, but I didn't, because I can justify spending over $500 right now on video games (with a game &VGA cable).

and anyone who says the graphics suck, well, you are partially right. If you look at CoD2 and Kameo, I would hardly say they suck, but they arent 'Next-Gen' at all, but the fact of the matter is, they are only using 1/6th of the total power that they could be using!

that being said, its kind of sad that the xbox is already overheating with games that only use 1/6th of its total power. I know a lot of people have had no Issues, but I personally (now knowing about this issue, and assuming you could just walk into best buy or target or wherever and buy one) wouldnt buy one for a while anyways. I think microsoft needs to address this problem, even if it is only a small percentage.

and why do people hate microsoft so much? I mean I'm not a huge fan, I dont like Windows 95/98/2000/ME/XP at all, I totaly prefer the Mac OS, but if it wasn't for microsoft, there would be no apple today (granted, if there was no apple there would be no microsoft today either...) because microsoft is so large, it is because of them that personal computing is what it is today. 5-10 years ago you wouldnt be sitting in bed with your 12" laptop for 5+ hours on 1 battery while chatting and surfing and watching a DVD all at the same time if it wasnt for some of the major steps microsoft has made. so as much as I dont like how microsoft runs, I respect what they have done for the entire industry, and personally, I like being a minorty as a mac user, I dont want everyone to use it, then we'll get viruses too :-D

and if any who hates microsoft got a 360, you are a hypocrite, and should therefore send it to me, PM me for my mailing address :D

[Dont Hurt Me]

if you ask my personal opinion the xbox 360 is BS

for one it is sell at 2x the retail price
no one will want this rev A POS after x-mas
i advise ppl to not waste you money on this buggy machine
why would you spend $900 now when you can put that toward a new apple

so many ppl are gettign ripped off buying this thing and it driving me absolutly crazy
anyone agree with me??

Micro$oft is the devil for releasing this

post your support or argumentsIagree for the most part, you want a real game machine go spring for a PC with modern videocard and you will have more machine then Xbox or any other console will ever be. Thats the just of it. Plus using PPC means Microsoft will be fighting supply issues for years just as Apple has.

[Symtex]

Iagree for the most part, you want a real game machine go spring for a PC with modern videocard and you will have more machine then Xbox or any other console will ever be. Thats the just of it. Plus using PPC means Microsoft will be fighting supply issues for years just as Apple has.

X360 will be ahead of PC for the next year or so. The ATI Xenos is more powerfull then the latest X1800 card. I haven't seen any triple core processor for the pc market either. The only advantage PC has is memory.

BTW, Microsoft manufacture the chip in their own plant. It's not the same as Apple.

[Dont Hurt Me]

X360 will be ahead of PC for the next year or so. The ATI Xenos is more powerfull then the latest X1800 card. I haven't seen any triple core processor for the pc market either. The only advantage PC has is memory.

BTW, Microsoft manufacture the chip in their own plant. It's not the same as Apple.
So lets see a $300-400 machine has better graphics then a $400 videocard and CPU that costs hundreds?? I think you been sipping the xbox360 koolaid. Yes its nice but it aint a PC and i have seen xbox call of duty2 vs the PC and my 1 year old PC/Graphics card still looks better.............

[Symtex]

So lets see a $300-400 machine has better graphics then a $400 videocard and CPU that costs hundreds?? I think you been sipping the xbox360 koolaid. Yes its nice but it aint a PC and i have seen xbox call of duty2 vs the PC and my 1 year old PC/Graphics card still looks better.............

But you haven't seen CoD2 on X360. not the same has xbox. If Gabe Newel was able to run Half-Life 2 on a P3-733 with 64 meg ram, Can you only imagine what they can do with the X360 hardware ?

Yes the 400$ machine is better then a PC right ow. I'm sure the PC market will catch up fast but if you have play PGR3 or CoD2 with a decent HDTV, you will ne er say PC is better. No way.

[Dont Hurt Me]

Ill stick to my AMD Athlon powered 6800GT machine but thank you very much.:)

[Symtex]

Ill stick to my AMD Athlon powered 6800GT machine but thank you very much.:)

Very well. I got an AMD with ATI X800XT. Works great with games like F.E.A.R. Console will never replace PC but you've got to admit it's pretty good to have a gaming machine for the same price has a great video card.

[MacRumorUser]

Very well. I got an AMD with ATI X800XT. Works great with games like F.E.A.R. Console will never replace PC but you've got to admit it's pretty good to have a gaming machine for the same price has a great video card.

Have a good spec Pc myself too, with a X800XT. FEAR runs around 30 FPS with boosts and drops respectivly. Call Of Duty 2 the same.

Condemned (a lot like FEAR by the same studio Monolith) and Call Of Duty 2 both run around 60 FPS on 360, a machine which costs less to buy than the ATI X800XT graphics card in our pc's.

That has to be good value. Admitedly the xbox 360 doesn't do as much stuff as a pc (but heck I only use my PC for gaming ever...)

All other work is done on my Mac and even that with a X800 XT can't compete for games with the 360, and again the card cost me 600Euro - compared to the 360's 400 Euro price point and for that your getting a 20gig HD, Dolby Digital Progressive Scan DVD player and Awesome gaming rig with a tripple core processor at 3.2 ghz...

360 represents a more of a good investment for gaming than an expensive GFX card, afterall the 360's games will get better and last over the next 5 years. My X800XT is less than a year old and with new games has trouble running them at full quality, and in 6 months will be worse again.

[savar]

I pre-orderd two machines back in May of this year. I just sold one of the 360's for 800 Euro on Ebay(double the cost of the machine) and I intend on keeping the other for myself. In affect I got my console for nothing :D Now that's pre-planning.

Did you order two from the same place? Or from two different places? I wish I had thought to do the same, because I'm interested in the 360 but without an HDTV I feel like its foolish to drop $400 on it. In the meantime, I'm buying a few XBox games that are deeply discounted now.

I think I might do the same with the PS3...except maybe not even keep any of them.

[savar]

BTW, Microsoft manufacture the chip in their own plant. It's not the same as Apple.

Where'd you hear that? I've got to call BS on this one:

http://biz.yahoo.com/iw/051025/098977.html

[zap2]

[QUOTE=DrNeroCF]People are stupid, that's just how life works. For 400 bucks you could buy a DS and like 20 games for it. For 900 you're halfway to affording a ps3... If people were smart though, they'd wait for Nintendo's next system, but alas...[/QUOTE

One-the DS is crap and should not be a sytsem, comparing it to xBox or Xbox 360 is a terrible thing

two- the PS3 is going to be 1800!!!:eek: (good thing im not a PS1/2/3/P fan)

3. Revolution will be destroyed by xBox 360,xbox 360 has good gams wil the Big N system will have few

[MacRumorUser]

Did you order two from the same place? Or from two different places? I wish I had thought to do the same, because I'm interested in the 360 but without an HDTV I feel like its foolish to drop $400 on it. In the meantime, I'm buying a few XBox games that are deeply discounted now.

I think I might do the same with the PS3...except maybe not even keep any of them.

Ordered 2 from the same place :D I orderd them before the price was even confirmed. I think they estimated at the time £499 (nearly $900) but I knew that this was just an estimate so whilst it put most people off pre-ordering, I ordred two regardless :) This was in May. By September when the price was confirmed and people began pre-ordering I was altready sitting pretty at top of the first come first serve queue.

I will be doing the same with the PS3 & Revolution. It's the same thing that happens at every release, especially nearer christmas. Not sure how this will effect the PS3 as no one knows when it will ever get released.

[Symtex]

Where'd you hear that? I've got to call BS on this one:

http://biz.yahoo.com/iw/051025/098977.html

Ok, you got me. I have to admit i was wrong. I was sure the Manufacture plant were done remotely. I can't find the article I read. Nonetheless I don't think will see the same issue we saw with Apple. X360 is a much bigger market. No offense to apple.

[Sharpsk8101]

If everybody remembers correctly the dreamcast had quite a successful launch. And Sony killed it with nothing but hype for the PS2.

[Eric5h5]

Seriously. I used to work for Microsoft, and it REALLY pisses me off when people use pejoratives in place of their name.

If they didn't do so many annoying things, maybe people wouldn't be so inclined to do so. I'd suggest learning to live with it, or not visiting Mac (or Linux) forums.

--Eric

[XNine]

Why does anyone care if people like the XBox 360? Its someones decision to buy one. If someone likes video games, and wants to play them on an incredible game console, why would you care?



Its not over priced - in fact, its underpriced if Microsoft wanted to make a profit on the thing - they lose money for each unit they make! And $399 for three 3.0 GHz PowerPC processors, extreme graphics, a 20 gig hard drive, DVD player, video game player, wireless controller, wireless remote, HDTV cables and more is a great deal for the consumer.


the funny thing about this: Microsoft said the next time anyone will be able to buy one is most likely after Christmas, so...



It isn't waisting money... its spending money on something which will last at LEAST until 2009, which will be fun for that entire time period. And just because some people have had bugs, doesnt mean they all have bugs. Maybe 25% of them do, and those will be replaced by MS.



What the hell? One, its $299 and $399, a game making $359 and $459. Second, not everyone automatically wants a new Mac... and what a weird statement, too... you can put it towards a new apple... You can put that towards anything...


:rolleyes:


Thanks for being about the only sane person in this whole thread. right on the money. I've got mine. It doesn't crash, it doesn't overheat. So, wtf? Why get all pissy about this thing? Ya know? It's something someone wants to purchase.

And, just for the record, is it okay if I use Microc*ck? Is it creative enough? If not I'll stop.

[Dagless]

But you haven't seen CoD2 on X360. not the same has xbox. If Gabe Newel was able to run Half-Life 2 on a P3-733 with 64 meg ram, Can you only imagine what they can do with the X360 hardware ?

Yes the 400$ machine is better then a PC right ow. I'm sure the PC market will catch up fast but if you have play PGR3 or CoD2 with a decent HDTV, you will ne er say PC is better. No way.

And how long did it take for a game like Half Life 2 to hit Xbox? I'm more impressed with Doom 3 running on the Xbox personally.
My stance on this argument is that no, console FPS are nowhere near as good as their PC rivals. I've been playing console FPS games since Gloom (IIRC) on the Amiga. I have never felt comfortable with a controller. its such a clunky experience and feels more like a compromise than a solution.

One-the DS is crap and should not be a sytsem, comparing it to xBox or Xbox 360 is a terrible thing

two- the PS3 is going to be 1800!!! (good thing im not a PS1/2/3/P fan)

3. Revolution will be destroyed by xBox 360,xbox 360 has good gams wil the Big N system will have few

you sound like a bit of an **** [edited myself] really. But i'll respond anyways.
of course the DS is crap. that's why its been a major hit that's snowballing into higher sales with instant classics like Nintendogs and Mario Kart, soon to be Metroid, Zelda, Mario and other franchise classics that will bring joy to many players and money for Nintendo's hidden bank in mt. Fuji.
Its not a terrible thing comparing. They're both gaming platforms? I hate all this "*winge moan* you can't compare a PEN WITHA PENCIL OMGZ!" course you can bloody compare them. you can compare anything, we're humans we can do that! go on, compare the queen to a set of batteries. you can! in that one has power, the other hasn't. "*error* does not compute *Bzzzt!*" cummon now. Its like people were comparing 45% of Mario Kart players have played online, whereas 18% of Halo 2 people have played online. Joystiq was full of people in Microsofts defence. the point of that article was that Nintendo offer online for FREE and Microsoft charge a FEE.
oh dear. I've just realised you can't speak properly whilst reading your third point. I don't know what you've been listening too but Nintendo has the same development following the PS1 and 2 had, PS3 has lost a huge chunk of support and Xbox has the same old. Not that I'm congratulating lots of developers, hell I wouldn't swop my Cube for anything. How many games did that have? a handful compared to Xbox and PS2. How much better was Windwaker, Prime, Pikmin, Smash Bros Melee, F-Zero than anything I played on other systems? rather a lot.

[Eric5h5]

and why do people hate microsoft so much? I mean I'm not a huge fan, I dont like Windows 95/98/2000/ME/XP at all, I totaly prefer the Mac OS, but if it wasn't for microsoft, there would be no apple today (granted, if there was no apple there would be no microsoft today either...)

What sort of logic is that? If M$ didn't exist, then Apple wouldn't have had much competition (pretty much only Commodore-Amiga, except their management was incredibly poor), so they'd be dominant today.

because microsoft is so large, it is because of them that personal computing is what it is today.

You're right: a mess. Personal computing could be MUCH further along today than it is, if it weren't for M$ holding everything back and screwing things up. Of course, it's possible that any company becoming dominant in computing would have messed things up just as much.

5-10 years ago you wouldnt be sitting in bed with your 12" laptop for 5+ hours on 1 battery while chatting and surfing and watching a DVD all at the same time if it wasnt for some of the major steps microsoft has made.

None of that has anything to do with M$. They're not TOTALLY evil, but they certainly don't deserve credit for things they didn't invent.

personally, I like being a minorty as a mac user, I dont want everyone to use it, then we'll get viruses too :-D

Wrong. For proof, note that OS 9 had viruses, and OS X currently has as much marketshare as OS 9 did, and Apple has much higher visibility these days, and yet there still aren't any OS X viruses. It doesn't have that much to do with marketshare. OS X would have had at least a couple dozen viruses by now if it were just marketshare.

--Eric

[doucy2]

well im really glad i posted this thread
there are many people out there who have sideded me
and many other that have argued my opinion

in my opinion gaming systems are a waste of time
although the PS3 is gonna be sweet (i may just buy it for the blu-ray disk player)

Have a Happy Thanksgiving everyone

and keep posting your debates

[CalGrunt]

None of that has anything to do with M$. They're not TOTALLY evil, but they certainly don't deserve credit for things they didn't invent.

--Eric

And neither does Apple, btw. Does anyone really think that it was Apple that invented the whole idea of an OS with a desktop, folders and a mouse ???

[Symtex]

And how long did it take for a game like Half Life 2 to hit Xbox? I'm more impressed with Doom 3 running on the Xbox personally.
My stance on this argument is that no, console FPS are nowhere near as good as their PC rivals. I've been playing console FPS games since Gloom (IIRC) on the Amiga. I have never felt comfortable with a controller. its such a clunky experience and feels more like a compromise than a solution.


You make a valid point. As long as "Fanboy" expect the same learning process with the PS3 or Revolution. It takes times for developer to harness the power of new console. X360 is no different.

I wouldn't say FPS on a controller is a clunky experience but I would agree that a mouse is alot more precise.

[natehan]

What sort of logic is that? If M$ didn't exist, then Apple wouldn't have had much competition (pretty much only Commodore-Amiga, except their management was incredibly poor), so they'd be dominant today.


First of all, if Microsoft didn't exist, Apple would definately have poorer products than they do today, so who cares if they are dominant or not. Competition produces better products. Second, Microsoft is a great facilitator in a macroeconomic perspective. Your dollar would probably be worth less today.

Anyway, I stood outside for 10 hours to get the xbox, then sold it on ebay for $830. 10 hours of work for about $350 profit (which excludes tax/shipping/ebay fees) is a good deal to me.

[XNine]

And I'd like to know why people think the PS3 is going to cost 1800 bucks. What a ********* joke. Seriously. There would be about 1 million people in the world that would actually buy it at that price point. Meaning the PS 3 would be a complete, and utter failure. Expect no more than 600.

The mentality of some, make me wonder how the human race goes on.

[MacRumorUser]

Expect no more than 600..

Yeah that what I would have thought. Although i read that the first blueray players are going to retail around $1,000 which means whilst Microsoft loses $126 per console, I expect Sony will lose about the same - even with a higher initial cost.

[mcarnes]

Eric5h5 speaks the truth. The rest of you are missing it.

[clayj]

If they didn't do so many annoying things, maybe people wouldn't be so inclined to do so. I'd suggest learning to live with it, or not visiting Mac (or Linux) forums.

--EricOh, OK... so instead of expecting people to behave nicely, I should just learn to tolerate their acting like asses? :mad:

[MovieCutter]

...and the winner for the Fanboy post of the day award is.....MovieCutter.

You, sir, are the most blind fanboy I have ever seen in my life period. First of all, Mac are not very good for games. My PM G5 can barely run Wow at full graphic. Call of Duty 2 looks amazing on a HDTV. Much better then the PC version. The game dev even said so on TV. Do you dare to argue with him ? He made the game for God sake.

It's a glorify xbox ? lol. The X360 is 3 core @ 3.2ghz Processor. The original xbox was a modified P3-733. You don't know what you are talking about.

Plus you toss the same old argument again that mouse+keyboard is better for FPS ...blah..blah... How original. FPS works fine with controller. It's not as precise but it's very manageable.

Wow, you need to get out more. I don't know about YOUR Power Mac, but my Power Mac plays KOTOR, WCIII, Call of Duty, Doom 3, Sims 2, and WoW beautifully AT ULTRA/FULL settings (at 1920x1200 at that, and no...I don't need 500 fps to enjoy a game...60 fps is all I and every other person with human optical perception needs). And Call of Duty 2 on the HDTV I played on looks like crap....I'm not impressed. It looks better on my $400 Dell that I use for Star Wars: Battlefront 2 and Half-Life (fanboy huh?)

Oooooh, the game dev said it...HE'S MARKETING A GAME...of course he's going to say that...that doesn't mean it's true. If you are able to respect opinions, you'd find that I (me personally) prefer the mouse-keyboard combo....that wasn't a swipe at the X-Box, it was simply a statement of preference. And what good are 3x3.2 Ghz processors if the games don't look any better than on my 2x2.5 Ghz processors??? I don't doubt that the X-Box has powerful chips in it...it just seems to me that nobody knows how to use it yet.

Again, that's just my personal opinion.

[dotdotdot]

Wow, you need to get out more. I don't know about YOUR Power Mac, but my Power Mac plays KOTOR, WCIII, Call of Duty, Doom 3, Sims 2, and WoW beautifully AT ULTRA/FULL settings (at 1920x1200 at that, and no...I don't need 500 fps to enjoy a game...60 fps is all I and every other person with human optical perception needs). And Call of Duty 2 on the HDTV I played on looks like crap....I'm not impressed. It looks better on my $400 Dell that I use for Star Wars: Battlefront 2 and Half-Life (fanboy huh?)

Oooooh, the game dev said it...HE'S MARKETING A GAME...of course he's going to say that...that doesn't mean it's true. If you are able to respect opinions, you'd find that I (me personally) prefer the mouse-keyboard combo....that wasn't a swipe at the X-Box, it was simply a statement of preference. And what good are 3x3.2 Ghz processors if the games don't look any better than on my 2x2.5 Ghz processors??? I don't doubt that the X-Box has powerful chips in it...it just seems to me that nobody knows how to use it yet.

Again, that's just my personal opinion.

You do realize its been out for under three days, right?

[MovieCutter]

Yes, but developers have had months, maybe years to get games ready. I guess I don't understand why you would release a console without some seriously "ready" and spectacular games when you have Sony and Nintendo lurking in the wings. Sure, they have nothing on X-Box in terms of Halo and X-Box Live....but PS3 is promising to be a major contender in the graphics and games department. If it were me running the XBox division...I would make sure I have some serious games on release and hit it with a BANG instead of letting the "real" games trickle in months after the release...(then again maybe these "real" X-Box games will be ready to take the press away from Sony). Either way, it's just a console...but I'll stick with my Mac and PC for gaming. That's just me.

[clayj]

Yes, but developers have had months, maybe years to get games ready. I guess I don't understand why you would release a console without some seriously "ready" and spectacular games when you have Sony and Nintendo lurking in the wings. Sure, they have nothing on X-Box in terms of Halo and X-Box Live....but PS3 is promising to be a major contender in the graphics and games department. If it were me running the XBox division...I would make sure I have some serious games on release and hit it with a BANG instead of letting the "real" games trickle in months after the release...(then again maybe these "real" X-Box games will be ready to take the press away from Sony). Either way, it's just a console...but I'll stick with my Mac and PC for gaming. That's just me.BTW... one thing I think a lot of you have not taken into account concerning the "lack" of blockbuster games for the 360 at launch time: Halo 3 could fairly easily be scheduled to launch on or around the same time as the PS3... assuming, of course, that the PS3 launches late next year and not in the spring. This could take a LOT of wind out of Sony's sales, if they find themselves fighting against a blockbuster game launch at the same time of their launch.

[generik]

You're right: a mess. Personal computing could be MUCH further along today than it is, if it weren't for M$ holding everything back and screwing things up. Of course, it's possible that any company becoming dominant in computing would have messed things up just as much.


You are simply delusionally.. without Microsoft the only thing that would happen is you will probably still be paying $2500 running MacOS on an Apple II. Competition is what brought computing to what it is today, not Microsoft, not Apple!

[Mike Teezie]

I'd like to think Bungie will have Halo 3 ready for the PS3 launch.

Mainly because I'm interested in watching the drama unfold with the 1337 fanboys arguing over 360 v. PS3. It's the train wreck you can't look away from. I also wasn't that crazy about Halo 2, it just didn't have the fun factor that Halo 1 did.

Right now, it's funny to me that Bungie won't even say what they are working on.

Considering Microsoft owns (pwns?) Bungie, I'm sure they sort of get to tell them that, yes, they WILL have a Halo title ready to go for the PS3 launch.

Maybe they are keeping it under super wraps this go round so that there isn't as much initial disappointment with the game. If people have no idea what is coming, then they have no idea what to expect, and therefore have nothing to fuel expectation.

[GFLPraxis]

You are simply delusionally.. without Microsoft the only thing that would happen is you will probably still be paying $2500 running MacOS on an Apple II. Competition is what brought computing to what it is today, not Microsoft, not Apple!


You are only correct to a point. Yes, competition is what got personal computing to this point; HOWEVER, the instant Microsoft achieved monopoly status, competition was effectively over. The only competitors are niche markets, and they aren't real competitors.

Compare the rate of Windows improvement to MacOS/ OS X. From Windows 2000 -> Windows XP vs From Mac OS 9.2 -> Mac OS X 10.4.

Apple is in competition with Microsoft. They have to fight. Thus, they innovate and they advance their OS. Microsoft? They don't have any real competitors. Apple's marketshare is nothing compared to them. So why do they have to rush? They can take their time, and thus, we have 5% of the world running Mac OS X, 5% running Linux, and the other 90% running a vastly inferior OS suffering from viruses and spyware, registry conflicts and all kinds of other problems.

Competition only advances the industry when the competitors are on a similar playing field. When one has a monopoly, there is no real competition.

How did an XBox conversation get into this again?

[steelfist]

all microsoft did was slap some slow computer parts for the xbox 1, and code a simple operating system to make the games work. really, if you do some hacking, you can use it as a computer.

they spent half as much work as sony and nintendo on their ps2 and gamecube. very creative microsoft. that's what pisses me off the most about the xbox, and the xbox 360.

ps3 and nintendo revolution might have simaler (to xbox 1) approaches to be built, but microsoft really needs to be a tiny bit innovative and at least work a bit harder.

what microsoft did now for the xbox 360 is slap some newer computer parts and create an updated operating system for it.

darnit when people don't care about effort and only "products" but hey, that's how the world works right?

[GFLPraxis]

Not this time. The XBox 1 was a bunch of standard PC parts. In this case, it looks like IBM sold Microsoft the PowerPC processor it designed for gaming to go in the Cell processor. They made a three-core version just for MS. And MS had ATi make a completely custom GPU this time.

But still, it's a bunch of computer parts, they're just not standard off-the-shelf ones. Sony is the only one not using normal parts with Cell.

However, Microsoft paid for it. Because they didn't own the rights for that hardware in the XBox 1, they ended up having to pay more for the systems AND wound up not being able to use parts of the GPU in the 360, so native backwards compatability was out.

[steelfist]

oh. my mistake. sorry

[clayj]

what microsoft did now for the xbox 360 is slap some newer computer parts and create an updated operating system for it.Well hell, if it's THAT easy, I think we should all be able to build our own consoles. All you have to do is "slap" some computer parts together and write an OS for it, right?

Or is it possible that consoles are the result of thousands or MILLIONS of hours of careful engineering, programming, developing customized parts (like the CPUs in the 360), testing, etc.?

Don't let your apparent hatred for Microsoft lead you to believe that the 360 is any less advanced than the PS3 and the Revolution, which, I should point out, are still "vaporware".

[steelfist]

i apologize again, but still you should have pressed the refresh button to find that i apologized about being too rash and not informed much

[GFLPraxis]

Well hell, if it's THAT easy, I think we should all be able to build our own consoles. All you have to do is "slap" some computer parts together and write an OS for it, right?

Or is it possible that consoles are the result of thousands or MILLIONS of hours of careful engineering, programming, developing customized parts (like the CPUs in the 360), testing, etc.?

Don't let your apparent hatred for Microsoft lead you to believe that the 360 is any less advanced than the PS3 and the Revolution, which, I should point out, are still "vaporware".

Well, the XBox itself actually was like that. An almost-standard Pentium 3 (only difference being that it had half the cache), standard Geforce 3, standard DVD drive, etc. It's basicly a cheap PC. And to make the OS, they already had everything they needed with DirectX and Windows. We COULD build our own XBox-like systems with off the shelf components, the hard part would be writing the OS for it, but I'm sure there are nerds out there that could modify Linux and have an OpenGL based console. Actually engineering it into a console's box, marketting it and getting developer support is another matter ;)

The 360 on the other hand, is like you said, with customized parts and all that, like any other console, millions of hours of careful engineering, etc, etc. It's no different than any other console.

[Scruge]

[QUOTE=DrNeroCF]People are stupid, that's just how life works. For 400 bucks you could buy a DS and like 20 games for it. For 900 you're halfway to affording a ps3... If people were smart though, they'd wait for Nintendo's next system, but alas...[/QUOTE

One-the DS is crap and should not be a sytsem, comparing it to xBox or Xbox 360 is a terrible thing

two- the PS3 is going to be 1800!!!:eek: (good thing im not a PS1/2/3/P fan)

3. Revolution will be destroyed by xBox 360,xbox 360 has good gams wil the Big N system will have few
1800 what?!

[Mike Teezie]

1800 what?!

Lire hopefully.

[Scruge]

oh and i like to add that halo1 was nothing special and halo2 was terrible. how can anyone expect anything from halo3? its gonna be the same crap. honestly i believe that the ps3 will completely destroy the Xbox 360.

lol the only reason they put "360" in the name was because "Xbox 2" would have sounded terrible next to the "PlayStation 3".

pathetic.:rolleyes:

[TheGimp]

I have a 360 and am fed up with "the whole thing" as far as its role in the media goes, but IMO the system is 100% worth it. Even $800 for a premium bundle would not be a waste of money if it were the only way to avoid waiting more than two months for a shipment and one's disposable income is not very tight. I myself spent monday night sitting in a foldup chair outside Best Buy in Boston from 7pm to 9am the next morning, in the pouring rain and ~40 deg temps with considerable windchill, in order to get one for $399.

Playing both PGR3 and the beginning (~1/4) of PDZ's training mission for about an hour (before crashing due to sleep deprivation) on a $1300 Sony HDTV left me with a very good but slightly disappointed opinion of "the whole xbox 360 thing". Then I noticed (again right before crashing) that the HD-AV cable's HD/TV switch had been off, which meant that I had been playing in 480i the whole time!

Setting the HD/TV switch to "on" immediately cleared my sinuses and practically revived me on the spot. After a few hours of sleep, a friend came over to see the 360 and play the PDZ campaign in co-op mode. Impressions started off strong, and sometime near the two-thirds mark of the training mission (as the environments became less bland and the action started in earnest) something in our brain's just went "pop". We then entered an almost 15-hour marathon of PDZ, most of which had us spewing unbridled, exclamatory praise as we continued to be bowled over by every aspect of this "perfect" game. Even during an especially tactically and strategically tough (at least in "normal difficulty co-op with 1 expert gamer + one very good but sleep deprived team mate) sub-mission which took MANY attempts to complete, we NEVER BECAME BORED or more than the slightest bit frustrated. This held true as well when a power outage and some logistical foibles resulted in us having to start over from a much earlier checkpoint on two occasions.


By far the best FPS campaign I have ever played and probably among the most fun times I have ever had playing a video game since I played my first video game, Space Invaders on the Atari 2600, at a friend's house at age 6. For someone who has owned almost every major console released to say this, one should at least be inclined to suppose PDZ to be "very good" by most standards. I could repeat almost any part of this campaign (that I've seen so far) numerous times, even at the current difficulty level, before needing more content. I can't wait to see the rest of the game and then replay the whole campaign at the next harder difficulty setting.

My friend, who had previously experienced Half Life 2 and other highly acclaimed PC games on top-flight PC's (my own most recent COMPUTER game experience includes Doom 3 and Close Combat on a dual G5 + 23" Apple display), was equally impressed and was practically traumatized by having to interrupt our co-op adventure in order to go home for Thanksgiving. So we're impressed.


PDZ: 10.0 - 0.1 (save-game complaints) = 9.9 total score.
graphics/variety of detail/split-screen performance: 10 (when PDZ is played on a high-end TV, this figure is only useful in traditional Xbox game comparisons if a richter scale
is used). Both framerate and texture detail were superb in split screen mode.
Sound: 10
Gameplay: 9.9 (0.1 subtracted due two a few glitchs, such as when my teammate crouched in order to enter the rear of a stationary vehicle, and could not leave it -even when I tried killing him)
Lasting value: 9.9 (preliminary figure based on my friend's report on his ~1hr experience playing multiplayer while I was taking a short nap after we took a break from co-op)

Control is excellent, just like Halo 2 but with some refinements (i.e. zoom aim not performed by pushing in analog stick) made possible by the 2 additional shoulder buttons on the 360 controller.

Anyone who has actually experienced PDZ on a high-end TV and still maintains that the game is anything less than next-gen is either spoiled by some recent PC release running on his brand-new $3000-$4000 rig (not including HDTV/monitor), is prejudiced in some way towards microsoft or rich people( I sure was), or is just depressed or spoiled period.

[GFLPraxis]

PDZ: 10.0 - 0.1 (save-game complaints) = 9.9 total score.
graphics&variety of detail: 10 (when PDZ is played on a high-end TV, this figure is only useful in traditional Xbox game comparisons if a richter scale
is used)
Sound: 10
Gameplay: 9.9 (0.1 subtracted due two a few glitchs, such as when my teammate crouched in order to enter the rear of a stationary vehicle, and could not leave it -even when I tried killing him)
Lasting value: 9.9 (preliminary figure based on my friend's report on his ~1hr experience playing multiplayer while I was taking a short nap after we took a break from co-op)



Sorry, but I have to break it to you; it's not that PDZ is the greatest thing ever, but it's the new console effect.

I got my GameCube with Sonic Adventure 2 Battle (port of a Dreamcast game), Rogue Squadron 2 (excellent graphics), and Super Smash Bros Melee. Sonic Adventure 2 was one of the first I popped in. I thought it was the greatest thing ever, because it was so much better than anything I had played on my N64; really fast, astounding graphics, etc. I would have given it a 10/10 for graphics.

Now, having seen what the system is actually capable of, Sonic Adventure 2 has perhaps the worst graphics of most GameCube games.

I expect the same. Except for the games that were developed ground-up as next gen titles, I expect that most of the 360 launch titles (the ones that were upgraded from XBox to XBox 360, like Kameo and PDZ, or the PC ports) will look far outdated in a year or two.


When you first play a new generation system, it blows away any game you've played on the previous generations and therefore, if you use the old rating system, you'll end up giving it 10/10 for almost everything.

[Poff]

oh and i like to add that halo1 was nothing special and halo2 was terrible. how can anyone expect anything from halo3? its gonna be the same crap. honestly i believe that the ps3 will completely destroy the Xbox 360.

lol the only reason they put "360" in the name was because "Xbox 2" would have sounded terrible next to the "PlayStation 3".

pathetic.:rolleyes:

I've only played Halo2 once, but I kind of enjoyed the movie-like feel it gave me. The big levels and the storyline was indeed very fun. It seems many people agree with me, and I guess that's the reason they are waiting for Halo3.

I'm hoping I'll be able to afford the real revolution, tho..

[Dagless]

Sorry, but I have to break it to you; it's not that PDZ is the greatest thing ever, but it's the new console effect.

I got my GameCube with Sonic Adventure 2 Battle (port of a Dreamcast game), Rogue Squadron 2 (excellent graphics), and Super Smash Bros Melee. Sonic Adventure 2 was one of the first I popped in. I thought it was the greatest thing ever, because it was so much better than anything I had played on my N64; really fast, astounding graphics, etc. I would have given it a 10/10 for graphics.

Now, having seen what the system is actually capable of, Sonic Adventure 2 has perhaps the worst graphics of most GameCube games.

I expect the same. Except for the games that were developed ground-up as next gen titles, I expect that most of the 360 launch titles (the ones that were upgraded from XBox to XBox 360, like Kameo and PDZ, or the PC ports) will look far outdated in a year or two.


When you first play a new generation system, it blows away any game you've played on the previous generations and therefore, if you use the old rating system, you'll end up giving it 10/10 for almost everything.

I agree. When I was first playing Rogue Leader I thought it was the best game ever. that the graphics could not be improved. Ooh boy, then came Rogue Leader 2! This is why I won't be trusting non-professional reviews of any next gen system for the first year or so.

But hey, where did TheGimp get his figures from? my mate Tom built a PC for £600+£500 HDTV that runs HL2, Doom 3, everything in 1080. at about 30fps. that certainly wasn't $3k-4k without monitor.

[Eric5h5]

Eric5h5 speaks the truth. The rest of you are missing it.

Why thank you. On rare occasions I do have some insights....

Oh, OK... so instead of expecting people to behave nicely, I should just learn to tolerate their acting like asses?

Calling Microsoft "M$" is being nice. They could be called much worse things. As just one minor example, the horrific badness of Word and the utter insanity of Word's "file format"--and that seemingly every version of Word is incompatible with every other version in subtle (or not-so-subtle) ways--causes problems every day where I work. There is NO excuse for it, other than really bad corporate ethics. The name-calling may be slightly childish, but it's richly deserved, so I'd suggest divorcing yourself from it. It's not directed at you.

You are simply delusionally.. without Microsoft the only thing that would happen is you will probably still be paying $2500 running MacOS on an Apple II.

Wow. Speaking of delusional, that has no basis in any reality that I'm aware of, even if you're exaggerating for the sake of melodrama. Congratulations on achieving a 100% divorce rate from the truth! I'm guessing you weren't actually around in the 80s, or else you'd know what was really going on then. (Hint: there were other companies around. At the time, Microsoft was a fairly minor player, best known for writing some BASIC interpreters for various companies, and they didn't have their own OS.)

Competition is what brought computing to what it is today, not Microsoft, not Apple!

Exactly. Microsoft is anti-competition. Without their existance, the computing market could have continued with the same healthy competition that it started out with. Apple could be competing against two or three other companies, each with a decent marketshare, and we'd all be much better off. There had to be some consolidation from the large number of completely different systems that existed in the 80s, but Microsoft took things in very much the wrong direction, and sucked a huge amount of innovation out of the entire industry. (And no, Apple isn't an innovative as some people like to think, either, but I'm not talking about Apple.)

--Eric

[i.Feature]

Completely, totally fed up... I'll keep playing my 'cube till all three next gen systems are out, prices have come down and there are some decent games...

[AP_piano295]

Im just wondering if we'll end up seeing the dreamcast effect once again with the 360

[Symtex]

Sony fanboy has been trying to put the dreamcast tag on the Xbox/ X360 since Bill Gates first announce that Microsoft were going in the console business.

What Sony fanboy do not realize is that having competitor is good for the market. Take EA par exemple, they bought the NFL license. Since they are the only football game in town, they only produce half-a$$ effort with their games.

[TheGimp]

When you first play a new generation system, it blows away any game you've played on the previous generations and therefore, if you use the old rating system, you'll end up giving it 10/10 for almost everything.

I agree. I should have said that part of my purpose in this thread was to assert that the 360 is in fact next-gen. In wthat case it would be consistent with your argument to say that my 9.8/10 reflects the more than incremental improvement of the 360 over the xbox. Several poopers in this forum would seem to disagree with that.

[TheGimp]

But hey, where did TheGimp get his figures from? my mate Tom built a PC for £600+£500 HDTV that runs HL2, Doom 3, everything in 1080. at about 30fps. that certainly wasn't $3k-4k without monitor.

My "figures" were given to allow for the possibility of some recent PC game (HL 2 and Doom 3 are not "recent" by PC standards) , or even more likely one just "going gold" now, besting the standard of quality of the first generation 360 games. They were not given as an estimate of the current price of a HL2-ready machine. I believe my post clearly distinguished that point if nothing else.

I agree with your first point.

[GFLPraxis]

I agree. When I was first playing Rogue Leader I thought it was the best game ever. that the graphics could not be improved. Ooh boy, then came Rogue Leader 2! This is why I won't be trusting non-professional reviews of any next gen system for the first year or so.

But hey, where did TheGimp get his figures from? my mate Tom built a PC for £600+£500 HDTV that runs HL2, Doom 3, everything in 1080. at about 30fps. that certainly wasn't $3k-4k without monitor.


Did you notice how, on GameSpot, EVERYTHING got an 8/10-10/10 on graphics, even the worst of the lot (CoD2, King Kong, still better than any other current gen games but not really next gen either)?

[GFLPraxis]

Sony fanboy has been trying to put the dreamcast tag on the Xbox/ X360 since Bill Gates first announce that Microsoft were going in the console business.

What Sony fanboy do not realize is that having competitor is good for the market. Take EA par exemple, they bought the NFL license. Since they are the only football game in town, they only produce half-a$$ effort with their games.


Competition is only good when it's FAIR.

Sony, Nintendo, Sega, all fine. Everyone has to fight to survive, fight for profits.

Microsoft? Microsoft uses their monopoly to subsidize. Giving away the razor to sell the blades is a fine practice. But selling a system for a massive loss for the sole purpose of driving a competitor out of the market is actually an illegal practice (that is almost never enforced). Microsoft is using their massive cash reserves to allow them to enter a market they have no presence in, and do whatever they want because they just absorb the losses. It's not fair competition.

[Symtex]

Competition is only good when it's FAIR.

Sony, Nintendo, Sega, all fine. Everyone has to fight to survive, fight for profits.

Microsoft? Microsoft uses their monopoly to subsidize. Giving away the razor to sell the blades is a fine practice. But selling a system for a massive loss for the sole purpose of driving a competitor out of the market is actually an illegal practice (that is almost never enforced). Microsoft is using their massive cash reserves to allow them to enter a market they have no presence in, and do whatever they want because they just absorb the losses. It's not fair competition.

And sony is not selling their console at loss ? lol...they did for so many years. The only company that had made a profit since day 1 is Nintendo.

[GFLPraxis]

And sony is not selling their console at loss ? lol...they did for so many years. The only company that had made a profit since day 1 is Nintendo.

That's "giving away the razors to make money on the blades". Read my post. To quote myself:

Giving away the razor to sell the blades is a fine practice. But selling a system for a massive loss for the sole purpose of driving a competitor out of the market is actually an illegal practice

Sony sells their console at a loss, but since they've regularly posted a PROFIT, they're making money.

Microsoft took an overall loss throughout the XBox's entire life cycle.

[Symtex]

That's "giving away the razors to make money on the blades". Read my post. To quote myself:



Sony sells their console at a loss, but since they've regularly posted a PROFIT, they're making money.

Microsoft took an overall loss throughout the XBox's entire life cycle.

Microsoft loss money on their console because they didn't make the hardware. They made a huge mistake with Nvidia/Intel. It also very hard for a North American company to even survive in the Video industry.

The soly purpose of xbox 1 was to test the market, so they can learn the business. One thing Microsoft is good at is learning from their mistake. The X360 will make profit the 2nd or 3 year around. Expect the same strategy from Sony. The Cell processor is not cheap.

[TheGimp]

Did you notice how, on GameSpot, EVERYTHING got an 8/10-10/10 on graphics, even the worst of the lot (CoD2, King Kong, still better than any other current gen games but not really next gen either)?

I don't see where you get your "worst of the lot" impression of COD2 and King Kong. Have you actually played through a substantial portion (i.e. more than one mission) of the full versions of those games?

Moreover, let's suppose for the sake of argument that those two games really are the "worst of the lot" in terms of graphics. In that case one would be led to conclude that if the "worst of the lot" of one console is "still better" than "any other current gen games" of a newer console, then that newer console can be reasonable said to be one generation newer - both chronologically and performance wise - than the previous one.

What's the point of dismissing a new system on the basis of it not yet living up to its own potential? That would be roughly akin to saying that a person who has demonstrated a modicum of genius cannot be designated as such because he/she is likely to be capable of so much more, and that therefore such a designation ought to be reserved for which time all achievements have been tallied so that a smooth normal distribution curve may be plotted.

In any case, everyone I've talked to who bought a 360 on the same day as I has effervesced over COD2. The only two complaints have been that of the single player campaign being too short (yet fun enough to replay several times) and that of the multiplayer being limited to 4-8 players.

[GFLPraxis]

I don't see where you get your "worst of the lot" impression of COD2 and King Kong. Have you actually played through a substantial portion (i.e. more than one mission) of the full versions of those games?



Because having played the demos, comparing COD2 and King Kong (which do look really good, better than any current gen game) to PGR3 or that NBA game where the people actually sweat, they're definitely at a lower level than most of the 360 games. That doesn't mean they're bad; I really liked King Kong, it was much better than any current gen game; but not as good as the 360 is capable of.


Moreover, let's suppose for the sake of argument that those two games really are the "worst of the lot" in terms of graphics. In that case one would be led to conclude that if the "worst of the lot" of one console is "still better" than "any other current gen games" of a newer console, then that newer console can be reasonable said to be one generation newer - both chronologically and performance wise - than the previous one.

Precisely. Go find me one GameCube game that had the same level of graphics as the N64. You won't find one. There will be no 360 games that are at the same level as the current XBox; even the ports, they add AA 4x, HD resolutions, fancier lighting, reflective surfaces, and enhance some of the models and it looks much better.

I never argued that the 360 wasn't next gen. That was other people.

I have to say that the generational gap isn't that big this time. N64/Playstation -> Current Gen was a much bigger jump. However, I think that can be attributed to the fact that the time difference between the XBox and the 360 is only four years, instead of the usual five/six.


What's the point of dismissing a new system on the basis of it not yet living up to its own potential? That would be roughly akin to saying that a person who has demonstrated a modicum of genius cannot be designated as such because he/she is likely to be capable of so much more, and that therefore such a designation ought to be reserved for which time all achievements have been tallied so that a smooth normal distribution curve may be plotted.

In any case, everyone I've talked to who bought a 360 on the same day as I has effervesced over COD2. The only two complaints have been that of the single player campaign being too short (yet fun enough to replay several times) and that of the multiplayer being limited to 4-8 players.

I'm not dismissing it at all, I'm just saying that the games will VASTLY improve over those and I'm a bit annoyed at reviewing sites giving everything 10/10 on graphics because they're comparing them to current gen instead of next gen graphics.

Every PC gamer I've talked to have noted that CoD2 looks great, but could run just like that on current PC graphics cards. One person's first reaction was, "It looks better on my PC with a Radeon 9800 Pro!"

People moving from XBox -> XBox 360 say wow. People moving from PC -> XBox 360 say "Oh, looks just as good as my PC gaming rig." The REAL next gen games are still coming, and we'll see what the 360 can really do. :)

[Symtex]

GFL : CoD2 on X360 looks better then Pc version. Infinity ward said there is alot more smoke effect and particules effecto n X360 then the PC version. Pc fanboys exist too. Nonetheless the games looks very good for a launch title.

[GFLPraxis]

Yes, it looks great for a launch title, my point is that compared to what we will be seeing by next year on the XBox 360, CoD2 and King Kong will look outdated. And the reviewers will look very dumb for giving them like 10/10 for graphics. Compare some Oblivion screenshots to CoD2.

[TheGimp]

I never argued that the 360 wasn't next gen. That was other people.

I have to say that the generational gap isn't that big this time. N64/Playstation -> Current Gen was a much bigger jump. However, I think that can be attributed to the fact that the time difference between the XBox and the 360 is only four years, instead of the usual five/six.



I'm not dismissing it at all, I'm just saying that the games will VASTLY improve over those and I'm a bit annoyed at reviewing sites giving everything 10/10 on graphics because they're comparing them to current gen instead of next gen graphics.

Every PC gamer I've talked to have noted that CoD2 looks great, but could run just like that on current PC graphics cards. One person's first reaction was, "It looks better on my PC with a Radeon 9800 Pro!"

People moving from XBox -> XBox 360 say wow. People moving from PC -> XBox 360 say "Oh, looks just as good as my PC gaming rig." The REAL next gen games are still coming, and we'll see what the 360 can really do. :)

Ok I must have confused your post with another one that seemed to state that the 360 is only a little better than current gen.

A few points addressing other aspects of your reply to my previous post:

-Not every 360 game reviewed at gamespot received 8-10 for graphics. At least one got a 6/10 for graphics, and I believe a few got 7's.

-You say the current leap is not as great as the other one you mentioned, but did not bring to bear on consideration of the first leap the parallel leap occurring in the PC sector. That is, if the perceived gain of the 360 over the xbox is dampened a bit by what's going on in the PC world, then one should also look at the advances made in PC gaming at around the time the PS1 came out. Even then, I remember an ebgames employee telling me in ~1995 (when I was first in line to get my preordered PS1) that allthough the then-current PCs were capable of out-doing the PS, one would have had to spend a whopping sum in order to do much better than, for example, Wipeout.

-Likewise, if your prediction of later generation 360 games outshining the current ones is correct, then that will surely resolve the "is the 360 really next-gen" question. So only time will tell. By the time the PS3 comes out, the we will only be a few months away from seeing 2nd gen 360 games anyway. So people will be tend to ask whether the PS3 was really worth holding out for when some compelling titles were already available several seasons before.

-Honestly I'm thrilled that the 360 can even be compared to 1-year old or newer PC's, even if its 1st gen games seem to fall somewhat short in certain areas. I'm excited because it was only last summer that I was feeling a little despondent over the fact that I would most likely not get to experience games of HL2 caliber without either buying/building a PC (great aversion and financial impediment there) or waiting another year or more for consoles to catch up.

---> 360 seems to have caught up with PC's, at least ones not costing three times as much. Resolutions may be lower and a bit of detail possible with say 256+MB of dedicated vram might be missing, but the detail level achieved in even some of these 1st gen 360 games is such that even graphics people should be pleased.

I plopped down only around $400 + a little more for some games (had several $10 coupons) and now am really enjoying a "new console effect" that is at least as potent as any before. If you're right about 2nd gen 360 games, then I can look forward to experiencing the new console effect anew from the same console in another 1-2 years.

[GFLPraxis]

All good points.



-Likewise, if your prediction of later generation 360 games outshining the current ones is correct, then that will surely resolve the "is the 360 really next-gen" question. So only time will tell.

Something to consider. In the case of the ports (King Kong and Call of Duty 2), both these games were completed before being ported to the 360. As you'll recall with Mac ports, the Windows PC games were always single threaded. Sometimes they'd throw some stuff onto a second thread (because the big Mac rigs are usually dual processor), but very little (like the audio processing in UT2k4), because the games would have to be recoded from scratch.

Therefore, I think its safe to assume that on those ports, most of the work is still constrained to a single thread, unless they recoded the entire game from scratch.

Kameo, too, was originally in development for the GameCube and they even showed screenshots of the full game engine running on the XBox. It, too, probably is doing most of the work on a single core. Remember, developers are new to multi-core environments.

On top of it, the small amount (10 MB) of super-duper-hyper-fast EDRAM on the 360 is something developers aren't used to, as is the unified shader architecture on Xenos (the 360 GPU).

That's why I figure that its a safe assumption that games will vastly improve.

[MacRumorUser]

That's why I figure that its a safe assumption that games will vastly improve.

Yep, pretty much every piece of new hardware improves with times as the devlopers learn how to manipulate the hardware to best effect.

Interestingly if Sony dont release till Summer 2006 in the US or Christmas 2006 in Europe, developers will be on the second generation of xbox 360 games utilising more of its resources, whilst the ps3 will be on its first with developers still getting to grips with the appraently 'convoluted' development tools.

So regardless is the ps3 is faster than the xbox 360, we might not see that improvement for some time (if ever:rolleyes:)

I played Kong at a demo booth this morning (kong fighting section) and of all the 360 games I've seen so far, this has to me been the least impressive. I hope they have improved it since the demo as it looked ugly and blocky and not that different to the Xbox when its hooked up to a progressive display at 480p.

[edesignuk]

Pretty sick of it all, god knows how many threads we need to have about it :rolleyes: Although I have to say, I do find some of it hysterical :D :eek:

[belvdr]

Pretty sick of it all, god knows how many threads we need to have about it :rolleyes: Although I have to say, I do find some of it hysterical :D :eek:

I thought about starting a thread about the revolutionary Commodore 64. Nobody would believe it to be next-gen tho.

I think I'll save my money for diapers, since our daughter should arrive in a couple of weeks.

[Dont Hurt Me]

Pretty sick of it all, god knows how many threads we need to have about it :rolleyes: Although I have to say, I do find some of it hysterical :D :eek:
Didnt even recognize you, its that you? yeah its funny we have Xbox360 fan boys along with sony,nintendo,............Pc's with high power CPU's and videocards are cream of the crop,I dont care what the console fanboys say.

[Wisdom]

You know, with all of the great needs in the world, and all of the folks who just need a "shoulder to lean on," and thousands of others who are just looking for a friendly voice and a listening ear ... I just don't have the time or energy to waste, in analyzing or discussing or criticizing something like the Xbox 360. I'm covetous of just one tenth of the time spent by young people playing Halo. If just one tenth of that time was spent doing something nice for others ... making that friendly call ... helping a neighbor ... helping your parents ... doing something UNselfish ... what a different world it would be!

[jacg]

Also, to anyone who does this, PLEASE stop writing Microsoft with stupid name changes that you think are funny... they really arent. Microsucks is not creative at all.

I always thought that you wrote it like that to circumvent the forum profanity filter.






;)

[maya]

The XBOX 360 is a fad, just like the iPod 5G and Nano. ;) :)


::whoops did I say that aloud:: :p

[G5Unit]

There will be no 360 games that are at the same level as the current XBox; even the ports, they add AA 4x, HD resolutions, fancier lighting, reflective surfaces, and enhance some of the models and it looks much better.

I thought that they only added the AA 4x? Where does it say this about lighting and HD res(Besides Halo 1 and 2)

[edesignuk]

5. There's a website where they buy an Xbox as soon as it comes out, and then smash the ****** to bits.http://upload.yo-momma.net/uploads/smilies/icon_rofl.gif

[dcv]

To answer the original question... yes, I am totally fed up with hearing about the XBOLLOX :rolleyes: :p :D

[GFLPraxis]

Well, I dunno, I just assumed so judging from the reflective surfaces all over the place and the way the characters were lit.

[maya]

To answer the original question... yes, I am totally fed up with hearing about the XBOLLOX :rolleyes: :p :D

Ah get it right for pete's sake, it's XBollOX. ;) :D

[ReanimationLP]

Luckily, I'm getting it for my birthday in Feburary. No Rev A or shortages for me, just 360 goodness.

Its so nice. :D

I bought the controller yesterday, and it works great on my PC. ^.^