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topmounter
Sep 10, 2013, 04:36 PM
$99 w/ contract... ouch :eek:



scottwaugh
Sep 10, 2013, 04:37 PM
no color matching earpods? my kids = :(:(

True, gotta go to Android for Moto's overpriced Moto X and overpriced matching earpods. Although that's not to say the pricing for the 5c isn't way disappointing either.

It'll be interesting to see how this thing sells, my guess is it won't sell well since you get so much more with the 5s - if they offered the 5s in the colors (as well) they'd sell a ton of them.

AaronEdwards
Sep 10, 2013, 04:39 PM
Ok, I'll give you the iPad. But that is one example in a long history.

Apple II was more expensive than Atari, or Commodore, and other 6502 based machines.

Macintosh was more expensive than Atari ST, Commodore Amiga or Acorn Archimedes and other 68000 based machines.

Apple's line of laser printers were almost criminally expensive.

Macintosh was and still is more expensive than similar spec PCs.

The iPod was more expensive than Creative or Zune offerings.

The iPod was initially cheaper than other tablet offerings. That has since passed as they give away Android Tablets with newspaper subscriptions.

So yes, there is one example in 40 years. I'm sure there are other examples, but the trend is quite the opposite.

How well did the Apple II sell against the competition?
How well did the Macintosh sell against the competition?
How well did Apple's line of printers sell?
etc

The only thing on your list that kept being #1 even when the competition got good is the iPod. And the thing about the iPod iswhile it costs more than the competition it doesn't cost very much to buy one.

WilliamLondon
Sep 10, 2013, 04:39 PM
$100 is $100. Comparing it to the overall cost of your contract is not really relevant.

Exactly. In this credit-oriented world, the upfront cost is *the only thing* the consumer pays attention to, it's why those "no money down" deals always do so well and are so heavily promoted. $100 is $100, the 5c is 1/2 the price of the 5s and that's what the average consumer will see.

numlock
Sep 10, 2013, 04:43 PM
The driving market which is the subsidized phone market a $100 is huge. Most of the people buying the phones on contract probably can't even really afford it to begin with. They are stretching it to just pay $99 living paycheck to paycheck. Even if you are buying one outright $100 is $100 no matter how you slice it. Apple has the high end mark and the low end market in mind. Apple will make their record sales as usual.

i am not familiar enough with the subsidized market. its the same price difference for the unsubsidized and converted to my currency and local tax the price is over $1000.

but its in context to the difference in the devices i mean.

i think its a rip off. it should be much more of a financial incentive to get the 5c but then again not offering colors like gray and black and the pathetic way the iphone names comes through on the cover shows the thought apple put into it

HarryWarden
Sep 10, 2013, 04:44 PM
So is the 5S the most powerful Apple mobile device now, until I assume the iPad 5 tops it?

seattle29
Sep 10, 2013, 04:55 PM
Honestly shocked at the price of the 5C - if this was being released immediately and I'd been camping outside an Apple store, I'd throw a brick through the window when the prices were announced.

Giuly
Sep 10, 2013, 04:55 PM
US$549 for 16 GB and $649 for 32 GB for unlocked and contract free. I've said this before but WHAT market are they targeting?

http://cdn-static.zdnet.com/i/r/story/70/00/018419/nokia-luia-625-crop-620x398.jpg?hash=ZGZ2ZJD5Zz&upscale=1

This. Except it's 4.7" and 250€/$329 with taxes vs. 505€/$549 without taxes. Oh, and it doesn't have neither a retina display nor an 8 megapixel camera. Nor an A6-class chip.

richnyc
Sep 10, 2013, 05:03 PM
The moment Steve Jobs left, the company is run by a bunch bean counting retards without modicum of vision!!! Enough said;)

Tjosansa
Sep 10, 2013, 05:05 PM
The moment Steve Jobs left, the company is run by a bunch bean counting retards without modicum of vision!!! Enough said;)

It seem so, sadly :((

karlwig
Sep 10, 2013, 05:06 PM
looks cheap. Feels cheap. Is expensive.

ftfy

Tmelon
Sep 10, 2013, 05:13 PM
Maybe after a year the iPhone 5 is still too expensive to make. The aluminum unibody must still be too hard to engineer. Because if Apple could make the same margins with the iPhone 5 being $100 cheaper then you are exactly right. Just sell brightly colored cases.

Maybe so, but they could have at least made a black and white option. There's not many grown men who would walk around with a bright yellow phone.

xlost6
Sep 10, 2013, 05:29 PM
The moment Steve Jobs left, the company is run by a bunch bean counting retards without modicum of vision!!! Enough said;)

I miss him :( :apple:

fallenjt
Sep 10, 2013, 05:36 PM
That's a guarantee that I'll be picking up a Nexus 4, if they're still in stock, if Apple is going to even consider a price that high.

They really dropped the ball with that contract pricing. They should have shown us what they're capable of without one for the rest of the world. There is one outside of the United States.

Sure, Nexus 4 is 3G phone, no LTE (no LTE antena). Get that fact straight. Don't say that you can tweak to make LTE chip in NX4 work because Google patched it with Jelly Bean 4.2.2.

cheesyappleuser
Sep 10, 2013, 05:40 PM
The 5C strategy doesn't make any sense. But for those shouting the 5C would be for newcomers, you are wrong. Here in Portugal (where phones are more expensive than anywhere else in the world) grabbed an i4 for $290. Brand new. And they still sell those in China for a reason.

Plus, the most likely is Apple's having higher margins on the 5C right now. In Q1 '14, they just launch an 8GB 5C and discontinue the 4S. This allows for ever larger profits since the phone is already mass-produced and people will be happy like there will be unicorns everywhere. (don't forget we'll all be using iOS 7)

Antares
Sep 10, 2013, 05:48 PM
Looks cheap. Feels cheap. Is cheap.

So, you've already held the phone in your hand to know that it "feels cheap?"

xmichaelp
Sep 10, 2013, 05:50 PM
They didn't even have a real phone to show anybody. No iPhone 5c, no iPhone 5s and no IOS 7 to demo. Its all vaporware. What the hell have they been doing for the last year. This is so sad and embarrassing. They really do miss Steve.:confused::o:(

What? They had demos after the show with ios 7..

Also, you clearly don't know what vaporware means.

Jayomat
Sep 10, 2013, 05:50 PM
The prices of high end flagship smart phones are not dropping in general, actually, are they? Outliers aside I mean. What does an S4 cost off contract? Note 2? HTC One? S3 even?


The S3 costs 300-350€ brand new

radiohed
Sep 10, 2013, 05:53 PM
The affordable iPhone...for the 1%. I thought Apple was going to make an iPhone that was affordable without a contract. :eek: It looks more like they wanted to make a phone that had better profit margins. Total fail in my opinion. I love my mac computer, but the rest I can live without. :D

Altis
Sep 10, 2013, 06:09 PM
I wonder if Apple decided they couldn't afford to simply drop the price of the 5 by $100, considering it's still almost as good as the 5S. And the 5S isn't worth another $100 to most over the 5, but it is worth $100 more than the 5C for sure.

That's their logic, in my opinion. And I can see how it makes sense in a board room with all the romanticized poetics, but hopefully people won't be so easily fooled.

Then again, I'm sure it appeals to kids and teens, although the palette of colours is very Easter-ish and feminine.

Personally, I would buy a thinner, nicer finished 5, and get a plastic colored case if you want the color. It would be cheaper than either, just as thick as the 5C with the case, or just as sleek without as the 5S.

PS I wasn't expecting the price to be that low of the 5C because the main piece they changed doesn't save that much. The rest seems to be still iPhone 5.

PPS A memory bump to 32 GB minimum would have taken the edge off people's complaints. At some point, Apple may be best to accept slightly lower margins in order to stay competitive.

Mainsail
Sep 10, 2013, 06:13 PM
The 5C will sell like crazy. I understand the criticism about the specs and plastic case, but it doesn't matter. The target market for this phone are middle class teenagers and young adults. Parents are uncomfortable buying their kids the latest most expensive smartphone, so this will relieve some of the guilt, whist giving in to their kid's desire for an iPhone.. It isn't logical...but, parents do this type of thing all of the time. Me included!

Besides, most people have absolutely no idea what type of hardware is in their phone.....and don't care. If they like the color and it is less expensive, while running the latest Apps and OS, then they will buy it!

DakotaGuy
Sep 10, 2013, 06:16 PM
So basically they replaced the beautiful iPhone 5 with a plastic iPhone 5C but kept the same price... Terrible.

Not terrible when it comes to profit margin. Tim Cook knows how to make money. This thing will fly off the shelves because it is "new" and it's an "iPhone" and make a lot more money doing it.

jimbobb24
Sep 10, 2013, 06:22 PM
might depend on how its received but apple can be as greedy and self serving as the come.

and i agree with the comments regarding the prices. apple is not a small company that is just for california or the usa. i for dont give a **** about contract prices. its as anti consumer as it gets

Not as greedy as me. I want the phone free.

----------



Then again, I'm sure it appeals to kids and teens, although the palette of colours is very Easter-ish and feminine.



The whole iOS 7 is so girlish somewhat wrote an entire article on it. Look at the game center icon, could you conceive of a more feminine, abstract, or boring icon.

I agree with you other points about pricing.

AtomicGrog
Sep 10, 2013, 06:29 PM
AU pricing for the 5C starts at $739 (5S is $869), really don't see that as a winner or a cheap alternative.

Imo looks nice though, plenty of colour options but at that price it will be a while before my kids see them in the xmas stocking...

Eidorian
Sep 10, 2013, 06:44 PM
Sure, Nexus 4 is 3G phone, no LTE (no LTE antena). Get that fact straight. Don't say that you can tweak to make LTE chip in NX4 work because Google patched it with Jelly Bean 4.2.2.I understand that would be of concern for some users but it is not for me. $249 without a contract and unlocked is what wins me over.

Welcome to MacRumors.

Altis
Sep 10, 2013, 06:53 PM
The whole iOS 7 is so girlish somewhat wrote an entire article on it. Look at the game center icon, could you conceive of a more feminine, abstract, or boring icon.

I agree with you other points about pricing.

+1. It's also very hard on the eyes with so much white everywhere.

I understand that would be of concern for some users but it is not for me. $249 without a contract and unlocked is what wins me over.

Welcome to MacRumors.

While I love the price of the Nexus 4 (and its looks), looking it up at various sites showed an alarming number of people having major issues with it. I'd rather buy a used 4S if I at least know it will work properly.

mytdave
Sep 10, 2013, 07:02 PM
First of all, your UK pricing is due to taxes, laws and regulation from your socialist overlords.

In the US, the iPhone 5c is $100 cheaper than the 5s. $100 is a big deal.

After initial demand is met, I bet you'll see a $50-100 price drop in the 5c and a discontinuation of the 4s.

Scrumper
Sep 10, 2013, 07:04 PM
The high price is so disappointing. I have been telling all my Samsung-owning friends who want to jump on board the Apple train to hang on because a new "low cost" iPhone is on its way. Now I'm going to have to eat my words. My fault for believing the rumours, I suppose. Meanwhile, I'm so glad I got my "5" when I did. And I'm hanging on to it!

AaronEdwards
Sep 10, 2013, 07:15 PM
First of all, your UK pricing is due to taxes, laws and regulation from your socialist overlords.

In the US, the iPhone 5c is $100 cheaper than the 5s. $100 is a big deal.

$100 is a big deal for those who are unable to understand the total cost of the phone including the 2 year contract and the second hand value of it.

Maybe it says something about the state of education in the low taxed unregulated US? ;)

Edit: Or maybe it says something about the low wages in the US?

seattle29
Sep 10, 2013, 07:17 PM
In the US, the iPhone 5c is $100 cheaper than the 5s. $100 is a big deal.

At current exchange rates (GBP/USD), the iPhone 5c is $126 cheaper than the 5s in the UK. So they actually get a bigger discount.

caspersoong
Sep 10, 2013, 07:26 PM
WHY, Apple? They should release a $275 iPhone, not this expensive product! Are they out of their minds? I want to see Apple regain market share but at this rate it seems very improbable. Also, the Chinese care a great deal about reputation and many wouldn't be caught dead with a 'cheaper' phone.

trip1ex
Sep 10, 2013, 07:39 PM
Wasn't as much of a wish as it was one of the alternative route Apple could have taken to maximize the number of iPhones sold.

$50 an iPhone would really maximize unit sales.

----------

First of all, your UK pricing is due to taxes, laws and regulation from your socialist overlords.

In the US, the iPhone 5c is $100 cheaper than the 5s. $100 is a big deal.

After initial demand is met, I bet you'll see a $50-100 price drop in the 5c and a discontinuation of the 4s.

$100 is nothing considering the contract and considering that the resale value on a 5S likely to be close to $100 more than 5c.

Makes no sense to get a 5c unless you want bright colors and plastic shell. But on the other hand for some people the extra features of the 5s mean squat. My parents would hardly notice a difference.

tmanto02
Sep 10, 2013, 07:48 PM
It is really to expensive

john123
Sep 10, 2013, 08:02 PM
The 5C will sell like crazy. I understand the criticism about the specs and plastic case, but it doesn't matter. The target market for this phone are middle class teenagers and young adults. Parents are uncomfortable buying their kids the latest most expensive smartphone, so this will relieve some of the guilt, whist giving in to their kid's desire for an iPhone.. It isn't logical...but, parents do this type of thing all of the time. Me included!

Besides, most people have absolutely no idea what type of hardware is in their phone.....and don't care. If they like the color and it is less expensive, while running the latest Apps and OS, then they will buy it!
And the 50+ crowd that's a little less nimble with technology and prefers something "rugged" over something stylish.

I agree. It'll sell like crazy. The funny thing about this thread and all the complaining is that this is exactly the phone everyone was expecting. But the people posting here are the quintessential example of a vocal minority. This was an excellent, profit-boosting move on Apple's part.

ScruffyS
Sep 10, 2013, 08:03 PM
Am I the only one who heard right from the keynote that the 5C will only run the background color of the device?

10:33 am: Wallpapers match the colors of the device.

(from the live event) Live Coverage of Apple's 2013 iPhone Media Event (http://www.macrumors.com/2013/09/10/live-coverage-of-apples-2013-iphone-media-event/)

john123
Sep 10, 2013, 08:05 PM
$100 is nothing considering the contract and considering that the resale value on a 5S likely to be close to $100 more than 5c.

Not everyone resells their phones, or does so through optimal channels. Additionally, upfront costs matter to many people an awful lot. As I stated previously in this thread, $100 is $100. The contract is, frankly, irrelevant. That's almost as non-sensical as saying that your cell phone contract is "nothing" because it's a tiny fraction of what you pay on your mortgage.

stol
Sep 10, 2013, 08:11 PM
Anyone who I saw walking around with a 5C I would seriously question their judgement and ask them why they couldn't find the extra £80 on top of £459.

I would consider you an awful person to do that to someone!

----------

Am I the only one who heard right from the keynote that the 5C will only run the background color of the device?

You can change the wallpaper anytime, of course. They meant that when you buy a new 5C the background you'll see when you first start it will match the iPhone color.

ianwuk
Sep 10, 2013, 08:12 PM
Designed by Apple in California. Inspired by Nokia Lumia.

I sold my iPhone 4 last week and got a Nokia Lumia 620, in lime green. It has all the apps I need and, so far, I have no regrets. All I have now is an iPad (1st gen) and use Apple for iTunes and iTunes Match.

official video on youtube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qiXYdRWT77c

Loved so far, but i prefer the iPhone 5S :D

Did anyone else hear that at the start it sounds like he is supposed to say 'more essential' but it sounds wrong? To me at least, I hear 'more ecentral'.

Nahaz
Sep 10, 2013, 08:24 PM
$739 in Australia for the iPhone 5c and $869 for the 5s. That basically means that these phones will be around $50-$70 per month on contract here. Apple has certainly guaranteed the 5c won't eat into the 5s sales.

I understand the concept of making great quality products, but Apple is leaving a big hole at the bottom of the market for all the other smartphone companies to come in and offer great phones for less, and I can even get price matching with them, unlike Apple.

It would of been better to sell the iPhone 5c at the current price Apple is selling the 4s for, and that is $529.00

paradox00
Sep 10, 2013, 08:28 PM
Designed by Apple in California. Inspired by Nokia Lumia.

Oh really?

https://www.apple.com/support/ipod/five_rs/images/welcome_mini.jpg

ruimpinho
Sep 10, 2013, 08:33 PM
599€ in Europe???

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/1038/6gie.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/163/6gie.jpg/)

Altis
Sep 10, 2013, 08:33 PM
......snip.....the Chinese care a great deal about reputation and many wouldn't be caught dead with a 'cheaper' phone.

Could be said of anywhere, but yes... they could have made a more subtle 5C. Heck, at least with a 4, people won't think you're cheap, but just haven't gotten around to upgrading your 4"s" ;)

$100 is a big deal for those who are unable to understand the total cost of the phone including the 2 year contract and the second hand value of it.

Maybe it says something about the state of education in the low taxed unregulated US? ;)

Edit: Or maybe it says something about the low wages in the US?

It's true that the difference should be at least halved when resale is included (ie. total cost of ownership).

I'm not even touching that last bit about the state of affairs in my neighbours to the south ;)

iSayuSay
Sep 10, 2013, 08:37 PM
Agree with all comments here. iPhone 5C off contract pricing is an utterfail. $549 and $649 respectively? Just $100 cheaper for the "ultimate" version?

People who buy an iPhone off contract wouldn't care if it's just $100 difference.

Those people ready to flush out $600+ for a phone, so why not spend another $100 to get the best of the best? Nicer material, Touch ID, speedier A7 .. Those extras alone worth too much to pass up for a mere $100.

In contrary buying a 5C means you miss a lot too. Suckier material (FIVE HUNDRED FARKIN DOLLARS PLASTIC FARKIN PHONE, really?), last year's processor, plain and no fancy tech iPhone.

The point of having a "C" class iPhone is to have an economical iPhone to compete with mid end market, which is the most abundant of all. But after looking at this? Hmm .. not sure what 5C means for. Too much compromises, too much stripping down.

Even iPad Mini looks sexier than iPad with RD no wonder it sells like hotcakes. Not so much with 5C to 5S

ScruffyS
Sep 10, 2013, 08:50 PM
hmm .. Not sure what 5c means for. Too much compromises, too much stripping down.

432458

john123
Sep 10, 2013, 08:56 PM
Too much compromises, too much stripping down.


It's an iPhone 5 with a bigger battery and plastic, that's now available for a lower price than the iPhone 5 was. Where's the compromise? Where's the strip down?

iSayuSay
Sep 10, 2013, 09:04 PM
It's an iPhone 5 with a bigger battery and plastic, that's now available for a lower price than the iPhone 5 was. Where's the compromise? Where's the strip down?

Bigger battery .. okay
Bigger plastic .. not sure what it means, but I think it's a bad thing?

A6 is an older tech no wonder it should costs lower. How about keeping the same iPhone 5 nice form factor and sell it for $100 less? Like iPhone 4 when 4S was released? Not really a compromise and everybody's happy.

And most of my point stays. What's the point of even sell a 5C when it only costs $100 less, made of garish-colored plastic, and missing out niceties like dual LED, Touch ID, and nicer camera?

It needs to be cheap, like $399 cheap to compromise so much and pinpoint its target market.

Lindsford
Sep 10, 2013, 09:12 PM
Apple failed here. The purpose of these phones should have been to make them cheap without a contract.

In many eyes Apple has failed. However I still reckon this will be wildly successful. $100 on contract doesn't seem to be that big of a deal when you can get a 5S for $100 more which i'm sure alot of techies and people who are on the forums will do. However there are others who care more about the color aspect, and saving $100 and not knowing the difference between the 5c and 5s without reading a spec sheet. I think everyone set their expectations a bit too high, and continue to base their new "budget" models against what Google is doing.

Apple is not willing to go to Google's level and sell Hardware at small margins, it's just not gonna happen this has never been their business plan and most likely will never be.

The pricing was to be expected, $199 current gen $99 budget $0 last gen. What will be interesting is what happens with the 5c/5s pricing next year when they release new models and if they will decide to go with a 4.5" model, a 4" 6, a 4" 6C? and if so what will be of the naming scheme? iPhone 6CS? :D So many questions about what's in store.

I was honestly hoping for a bit of a larger screen I love the size of the S4 but nothing I can do to it thus far makes the experience as smooth as OS. While not as many apps force close as when I had my iPhone 5, Google Play force closes on me atleast once a day, and even after killing it in tasks it still runs in the background draining my battery drives me nuts.

Guess I'll have to sit the iPhone out this year, was even half expecting the "One more thing..." to be a bigger iPhone to re-enforce the whole "Double-down" on security... Looks like one of the biggest years of leaks yet imo.

bandalay
Sep 10, 2013, 09:38 PM
With the ChinaMobile deal there could be a special lower price, and given their unique cellular standard (TD-SCDMA), their version of the device will not be black market-able outside of the country, or even their network.

:cool:

jaw04005
Sep 10, 2013, 10:12 PM
Oh really?

Image (https://www.apple.com/support/ipod/five_rs/images/welcome_mini.jpg)

I thought the same thing with all the Lumia talk. Also, there was an iPhone 3G and 3GS with polycarbonate plastic backing years before the Lumia.

With the ChinaMobile deal there could be a special lower price, and given their unique cellular standard (TD-SCDMA), their version of the device will not be black market-able outside of the country, or even their network.

:cool:

I wondered this too. According to the talking heads on CNBC today, Chinese customers are using 2G or 3G phones and not LTE. I could see Apple making them a 2G/3G only special SKU that's cheaper.

I guess we will find out in the morning.

mommabean
Sep 10, 2013, 10:15 PM
So for someone that doesn't own an iPhone yet...and my contract is up so time to upgrade...do I want the free 4s or the 5c? I've read the comments here and I fit the bill of a young mom and I do love the colors. Don't need manly here. I can do the extra $100 for the 5s, but is it necessary? The fingerpad lock doesn't do a darn thing for me.

Lindsford
Sep 10, 2013, 10:33 PM
So for someone that doesn't own an iPhone yet...and my contract is up so time to upgrade...do I want the free 4s or the 5c? I've read the comments here and I fit the bill of a young mom and I do love the colors. Don't need manly here. I can do the extra $100 for the 5s, but is it necessary? The fingerpad lock doesn't do a darn thing for me.

5C doesn't have the finger unlock, I'd spent the extra $100 and get a better phone, better camera and it will be relevant with updates for a longer period of time.

AtomicGrog
Sep 10, 2013, 11:02 PM
So for someone that doesn't own an iPhone yet...and my contract is up so time to upgrade...do I want the free 4s or the 5c? I've read the comments here and I fit the bill of a young mom and I do love the colors. Don't need manly here. I can do the extra $100 for the 5s, but is it necessary? The fingerpad lock doesn't do a darn thing for me.

Imo the fingerprint is worth the extra.... with my phone locking every few mins it would be a godsend...

CedarPoint182
Sep 10, 2013, 11:07 PM
Not a fan of the colors. They appear too pastel-y for my liking, though maybe they'll appear different / better in person.

And while I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to owning a plastic iPhone (I don't actually think the iPhone 5C looks all that cheap), I agree with others on here that spending $100 to upgrade to the far superior 5S seems like a no brainer. You get the A7 processor, a better camera, and Touch ID--which I'd argue is well worth the upgrade cost. And yes, I realize that $100 is a lot of money, but I don't think it's all that much when taken in context of a phone investment (which between the device and contract will cost you hundreds begin with).

And those cases... Ouch! I wouldn't use one of those if it were free. I guess I'm not "colorful" enough to appreciate them.

Mainsail
Sep 11, 2013, 12:27 AM
I don't care for most of the color choices. I guess the white and blue are ok. The plastic doesn't bother me at all, since I protect my phone with a plastic case anyway.....most people do the same.

I think the ID feature would be very nice, since I always use a lock screen for security. If the 5s camera is significantly better, I will be more interested, since I take most of my pictures with my phone. Nevertheless, I am not sure if these features are worth $100.

I wonder if some people would rather have extra storage space, since from a cost perspective: iphone 5c 32GB = iPhone 5s 16GB?

captain kaos
Sep 11, 2013, 12:31 AM
That's a guarantee that I'll be picking up a Nexus 4, if they're still in stock, if Apple is going to even consider a price that high.

They really dropped the ball with that contract pricing. They should have shown us what they're capable of without one for the rest of the world. There is one outside of the United States.

Try $739AU for the 16GB 5C.......Yikes. No deal from me thanks. For the same price i can get someone to purchase and post a Moto X from the US.

bhags8
Sep 11, 2013, 12:43 AM
$100 is a big deal for those who are unable to understand the total cost of the phone including the 2 year contract and the second hand value of it.

Maybe it says something about the state of education in the low taxed unregulated US? ;)

Edit: Or maybe it says something about the low wages in the US?

Actually it isnt a big deal. I buy all my phones at full retail to keep my unlimited data. I actually PLANNED on buying a 5C because I WANT A PLASTIC phone and LIKE the colors. BUT I realize that it would be STUPID! to buy a 5C for $100 less than a 5S. I could buy a iPhone 5 for less than the 5C which is basically the same phone from what I see. This might have turned me to go another year with Android. I wanted an iphone but want plastic, this price point is stupid and Im not even close to a cheapskate.

zhenlek
Sep 11, 2013, 01:00 AM
Designed by Apple in California. Inspired by Nokia Lumia.

Nokia Lumia...inspired by iPod nano....

MH01
Sep 11, 2013, 01:17 AM
First of all, your UK pricing is due to taxes, laws and regulation from your socialist overlords.

Cool story bro.

I thought it was just down to apples greed!?!?!? Not sure how our laws and regulations are forcing apple to maintain thier extremely high profit margin.... Geez!

----------

Nokia Lumia...inspired by iPod nano....

If your blind or seriously drunk.... Sure...

----------

Try $739AU for the 16GB 5C.......Yikes. No deal from me thanks. For the same price i can get someone to purchase and post a Moto X from the US.

Yard the 5c is a total ripoff for what you get. Look like apple got burned on scuff gate and is trying to get thier money back on the same phone in plastic with a premium price of aluminium. The htc one is so much better value.

The 5c should have been a cheaper option you got for your kids. Shame apple positioned it for kids that go to elite private skills with rich parents ;)

----------

And the 50+ crowd that's a little less nimble with technology and prefers something "rugged" over something stylish.

I agree. It'll sell like crazy. The funny thing about this thread and all the complaining is that this is exactly the phone everyone was expecting. But the people posting here are the quintessential example of a vocal minority. This was an excellent, profit-boosting move on Apple's part.

Everyone is complaining about the price. No one knew the price before yesterday.

I believe it's the minority that believe the price is right.

batchtaster
Sep 11, 2013, 01:45 AM
Looks cheap. Feels cheap. Is cheap.

You haven't even touched one yet. Those who have have claimed that it feels unusual, has a different quality than any other plastic they've ever touched.

I suggest you speak from actual experience and facts rather than making junk up based on assumption.

I believe it's the minority that believe the price is right.

So you speak on behalf of everyone else in the world, then? Brave.

Wiesenlooser
Sep 11, 2013, 02:17 AM
Try $739AU for the 16GB 5C.......Yikes. No deal from me thanks. For the same price i can get someone to purchase and post a Moto X from the US.

That price is severly screwed up , mate. Here in Germany its 599 €...

thats 800 US Dollar or 855 Australian Dollar.

buying that phone would be the first time Id really feel ripped off by Apple (besides the usual 29 bucks for these adapters)

clibinarius
Sep 11, 2013, 06:50 AM
Did Apple ever state it would be anything different than past years?

Last I checked it was the news sites saying this for the last year or so...

And this article STILL calls it that.

Apple doesn't say anything until they officially market. Your comment has nothing to do with the fact I'm asking low cost to who here.

dirtymagician
Sep 11, 2013, 06:54 AM
Makes me wonder is this Apple testing the water for future plastic backed ios devices?

The ipad 4c or ipod touch 5c, all plastic backed in various colours and all featuring last years internals.

I'll reserve judgement until ive seen the 5c up close but i can't forsee me wanting one of those mental coloured things, i'll keep my ip4 rolling and see if the ipad event has anything that interests me.

TXCherokee
Sep 11, 2013, 07:50 AM
Seriously? The S4 is a beast of a phone. I don't like plastic either but to compare the 5C to the S4 hurts your credibility.

No, it doesn't hurt my credibility at all.

My sample size is small, but I have a group of friends, 12 to be exact, and we all have either the IP5 or the GS4 and we have friendly discussions and comparisions quite often when we get together. In fact, it's fun and interesting when one of us comes up with some new test. Overall, we have found that the phones perform very similar in a multitude of tasks in speed and accuracy. In our observations, the only thing the SG4 does better is integrating the various Google services a little better while the IP5 is usually faster in opening apps.

That said, the 5C is basically the IP5 with a bigger battery, plastic case, and compares well with the GS4....and is $100 cheaper.

NightFlight
Sep 11, 2013, 08:38 AM
Ridiculously stupid move by Apple.

The beautiful iPhone 5 looks FAR better and is around the same price. Why would a consumer pick this polycarbonate phone that looks like a child's toy over the iPhone 5? This is cheaper for NO ONE but Apple to produce. I thought they were talking about a low cost device, $550 off contract isn't inexpensive at all.

What a joke.

LeandrodaFL
Sep 11, 2013, 09:46 AM
The new iphone 5C case:

john123
Sep 11, 2013, 09:59 AM
Bigger battery .. okay
Bigger plastic .. not sure what it means, but I think it's a bad thing?
Aesthetically, sure. Practically, it's fine.


A6 is an older tech no wonder it should costs lower. How about keeping the same iPhone 5 nice form factor and sell it for $100 less? Like iPhone 4 when 4S was released? Not really a compromise and everybody's happy.
Because it's a lot cheaper to do things this way, and this is a company that's seen its stock price be hammered by margin compression. Plus, for anyone who really cares about the aesthetics that much, it provides a temptation to spend the "only $100" that people keep talking about and splurge on the 5S. It's kinda brilliant, actually. *And* it sets up a longer-term business play down the road starting next year where you do have your lowest-cost model in a plastic casing. So in the long-run, it's actually super brilliant.


And most of my point stays. What's the point of even sell a 5C when it only costs $100 less, made of garish-colored plastic, and missing out niceties like dual LED, Touch ID, and nicer camera?
See above. You say "$100 less", but practically, that just means that users who can't stand to be without that stuff will simply spend "$100 more." It's a win-win.


It needs to be cheap, like $399 cheap to compromise so much and pinpoint its target market.
And here's where you're completely off-base. This thing will sell well. Many users don't care that much about the features you mentioned. They're fine with plastic. They enjoy cutting the upfront phone cost in half.

All you've done is written a solid argument for buying a 5S for yourself. You haven't really made any points that actually suggest the 5C won't be a huge success, or that it wasn't a pretty clever business decision.

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Ridiculously stupid move by Apple.

The beautiful iPhone 5 looks FAR better and is around the same price. Why would a consumer pick this polycarbonate phone that looks like a child's toy over the iPhone 5? This is cheaper for NO ONE but Apple to produce. I thought they were talking about a low cost device, $550 off contract isn't inexpensive at all.

What a joke.
For the reasons stated above, you are 100% wrong. It's a ridiculously good move.

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Everyone is complaining about the price. No one knew the price before yesterday.

I believe it's the minority that believe the price is right.

Um, this was precisely the lineup and prices everyone was expecting on the "consensus summaries" on the various rumor sites before yesterday.

Your argument presumes a whole bunch of things—that the complainers are the target market, that this really was intended to be a "low cost" iPhone to penetrate certain developing markets today, etc. I'd posit that many of those assumptions are incorrect.

Eidorian
Sep 11, 2013, 10:07 AM
Try $739AU for the 16GB 5C.......Yikes. No deal from me thanks. For the same price i can get someone to purchase and post a Moto X from the US.
http://fudzilla.com/home/item/32470-cheap-iphone-is-still-too-pricey-for-china

http://vr-zone.com/articles/apples-iphone-5c-costs-700-china-india/55708.html

Now these prices are scary for the emerging market.

MyopicPaideia
Sep 11, 2013, 10:18 AM
Fair point on stock price. I should have considered that. As for S3 vs. 5C, is it objectively better? I am not sure. I have obviously never used a 5C, but the S3s that I have been able to play with have been quite nice. I used the S3 as a comparison basically as a this is how much last year's tech costs now. Is that fair, not sure. But I am not sure it is fair to compare the 5C to the S4 either.

If the comparison is last year's flagships it would be a fair comparison 5C vs S3. The thing is that these phones leapfrog each other in terms of raw specs and benchmark scores. S3 destroyed the 4S and then the 5 (and in turn the rebranded 5C) came out and did the same to the S3. The S4 put the 5 to shame and now the 64bit 5S gave that right back to the S4 in spades. I personally enjoy how that plays out, it pushes both companies and platforms to innovate. Then it is a matter of personal preference as far as OS is concerned. Don't even want to go there... :)

MyopicPaideia
Sep 11, 2013, 10:40 AM
Cool story bro.

I thought it was just down to apples greed!?!?!? Not sure how our laws and regulations are forcing apple to maintain thier extremely high profit margin.... Geez

- 20% added in the UK for VAT (Americans call that sales tax, and this is NOT included in the price you are comparing to as it is regulated on a state by state basis. You don't even pay sales tax if you order online from "out of state" i.e. are a resident of a different state than the company's registered address.)

- Import/Export taxes and fees. We don't live in a world of free trade (let's not get into that debate here though).

- Fixed foreign pricing. Apple sets its prices in different countries conservatively (from their point of view) in order to hedge against exchange rate fluctuations for the coming fiscal period.

Those three factors easily account for the higher prices around the world than in the US. There is nothing sinister about it unless you are morally inclined to think that a business maintaining a consistent profit margin across the globe in order to perform for their stockholders is by nature evil, but that is a whole other discussion.

peteullo
Sep 11, 2013, 11:34 AM
It already is free...

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It wasn't announced when I posted that. Thank you sir for the fashionably late statement!

trip1ex
Sep 11, 2013, 11:50 AM
Not everyone resells their phones, or does so through optimal channels. Additionally, upfront costs matter to many people an awful lot. As I stated previously in this thread, $100 is $100. The contract is, frankly, irrelevant. That's almost as non-sensical as saying that your cell phone contract is "nothing" because it's a tiny fraction of what you pay on your mortgage.

No. It makes sense because the contract includes a subsidy for your phone and they are intertwined.

It makes sense because if you can't afford an extra $100 up front for your phone then you shouldn't be entering into a $2k 2 yr phone contract.

It makes sense because you get something worth $100 more on the back end of your contract while getting to use a better phone.

Again I can see the 5c being a personal choice just not a financial one.

GurkhaRifle
Sep 11, 2013, 11:50 AM
I think this is a low-end iphone with not so low price.$549 starting price,what????????

john123
Sep 11, 2013, 12:18 PM
No. It makes sense because the contract includes a subsidy for your phone and they are intertwined.

It makes sense because if you can't afford an extra $100 up front for your phone then you shouldn't be entering into a $2k 2 yr phone contract.

It makes sense because you get something worth $100 more on the back end of your contract while getting to use a better phone.

Again I can see the 5c being a personal choice just not a financial one.
You just spewed a bunch of rationalizations. It's still $100. Comparing it to the cost of the contract is silly. The question is, for each individual user, whether the marginal utility of the extra features and aesthetics is worth $100. For many, the answer will be no.

Also, your logic about "affording" the contract is flawed. Many people live paycheck to paycheck. An extra $100 in lump sum makes a difference to some people. Many are on a budget. Again, just because it isn't a choice you would personally make doesn't mean it's a "wrong" choice for others.

Frankly, the only compelling point you have is resale value. But many people don't resell their phones, or do so promptly. Often they are handed down to kids, friends, etc. And once again, $100 today is worth more than $100 tomorrow. That's a central concept in economics and finance, and in the context of constrained household finances, it's especially true.

Nothing is stopping you from buying a 5S. Apple will be thrilled if you do. Heck, I even think that's part of the point. This is a beautiful example of product differentiation in luxury goods (despite claims to the contrary, this stuff is still nowhere near commodity economics). All I'm saying is that a ton of people will find the 5C attractive. You get the same screen and power as the top-of-the-line from two days ago at half the cost (subsidized), or $100 less unsubsidized. Really, what's to complain about? I don't get it.

EDIT: One thing I'll add that changes the dynamics a bit is AppleCare. I was going to get my dad a 5C, but since he definitely wants AppleCare, that by itself may nudge me to get him a 5S instead. I trust the logic is clear and obvious here, but if not, let me know.

Eidorian
Sep 11, 2013, 12:22 PM
Nothing is stopping you from buying a 5S. Apple will be thrilled if you do. Heck, I even think that's part of the point. This is a beautiful example of product differentiation in luxury goods (despite claims to the contrary, this stuff is still nowhere near commodity economics). All I'm saying is that a ton of people will find the 5C attractive. You get the same screen and power as the top-of-the-line from two days ago at half the cost (subsidized), or $100 less unsubsidized. Really, what's to complain about? I don't get it.Smartphones are commodity electronics. Though I am not going to solely place blame on Apple for the outrageous prices on their phone. Many other vendors have +US$600 flagship phones but it is still possible to obtain another model for much less.

I draw the line at US$299 and I'm not even part of the emerging market. It's just a phone.

john123
Sep 11, 2013, 12:28 PM
Smartphones are commodity electronics. Though I am not going to solely place blame on Apple for the outrageous prices on their phone. Many other vendors have +US$600 flagship phones but it is still possible to obtain another model for much less.

I draw the line at US$299 and I'm not even part of the emerging market. It's just a phone.

Sorry, but that's you. That's like arguing that cars are commodities. Some are, and some are not. You're lumping too many products under the term "smartphones". In economics, the word "commodity" has a very specific meaning. Examples include petroleum, gold, and of course, frozen concentrated orange juice. It doesn't apply here in the slightest.

Eidorian
Sep 11, 2013, 12:33 PM
Sorry, but that's you. That's like arguing that cars are commodities. Some are, and some are not. You're lumping too many products under the term "smartphones". In economics, the word "commodity" has a very specific meaning. Examples include petroleum, gold, and of course, frozen concentrated orange juice. It doesn't apply here in the slightest.Would you please expand upon this?

Lancetx
Sep 11, 2013, 12:46 PM
My only issue with the 5c at all is that I simply think it's priced $100 too high for what it is. They should have had a 16GB model only and it should have been priced free on contract and/or $449 contract free.

I'm almost wondering if by the first quarter of 2014 that will be precisely what the 5c will be priced at. Apple cut the price of the original iPhone in 2007 by $200 after just 2 months, so it's not like a reduction would be unprecedented.

RTT
Sep 11, 2013, 12:55 PM
I would be very surprised if Apple did not do some market research and a costing exercise before deciding to produce and sell a product.

Everybody has assumed that Apple were making a 'cheap' phone, but did Apple say so.

Eidorian
Sep 11, 2013, 12:58 PM
I would be very surprised if Apple did not do some market research and a costing exercise before deciding to produce and sell a product.

Everybody has assumed that Apple were making a 'cheap' phone, but did Apple say so.Apple never revealed the true intentions behind the iPhone 5C. It's not for emerging markets and just appears to cannibalize iPhone 5S sales. Then again we've said this for years about Apple products.

john123
Sep 11, 2013, 01:00 PM
Would you please expand upon this?

Sure. I hate to use definitions from Wikipedia since they tend to be imprecise, but in the interest of readability, I'll use theirs for commodity (emphasis added).

The more specific meaning of the term commodity is applied to goods only. It is used to describe a class of goods for which there is demand, but which is supplied without qualitative differentiation across a market. A commodity has full or partial fungibility; that is, the market treats its instances as equivalent or nearly so with no regard to who produced them.

Where smartphones don't qualify as commodities is the fact that the market doesn't treat them as equivalent. In other words, the fungibility criterion isn't met. Certainly, the increased competition combined with the decrease in brand dominance means that there is commoditization going on in the industry. But there are enough niches in the market that are substantial in size that we're not even close to running that down. You have die-hard Apple and Android and BlackBerry fans, for starters. You also have a significant "status" effect in technology that comes from people wanting to have the latest and greatest. In fact, there is a type of goods known as "Giffen goods" in which the higher the price, the more people seem to want it. This isn't really at play so much, but it's the most extreme example of the "status" concept at work.

So what's the implication? Simply put, Apple can still get away with some degree of murder, albeit not nearly to the extent they used to. But it's the reason why the 5C is a brilliant business play. They can do the same thing they've done for the last several years (i.e., reduce the price of the previous model by $100), but by introducing a new model that has the same functionality but can be produced at lower cost, they're able to deal with the margin erosion problem that these devices created. I'm sure the analysts will do tear-downs very soon, and we'll get a good estimate of just how much Apple is likely saving over the production cost of the regular iPhone 5, but I have to imagine it's significant. And for a company that's gotten a stock beat down, and the #1 reason for that is margin erosion (sales have actually remained steady or ticked upward), that's a very good thing for them.

----------

My only issue with the 5c at all is that I simply think it's priced $100 too high for what it is. They should have had a 16GB model only and it should have been priced free on contract and/or $449 contract free.

I'm almost wondering if by the first quarter of 2014 that will be precisely what the 5c will be priced at. Apple cut the price of the original iPhone in 2007 by $200 after just 2 months, so it's not like a reduction would be unprecedented.

That's very possible on #2.

On #1, it's an iPhone 5 replacement, but a little less sexy (so as not to cannibalize 5S sales). I think the price is "right", especially given the subsidized pricing.

Eidorian
Sep 11, 2013, 01:01 PM
Sure. I hate to use definitions from Wikipedia since they tend to be imprecise, but in the interest of readability, I'll use theirs for commodity (emphasis added).

The more specific meaning of the term commodity is applied to goods only. It is used to describe a class of goods for which there is demand, but which is supplied without qualitative differentiation across a market. A commodity has full or partial fungibility; that is, the market treats its instances as equivalent or nearly so with no regard to who produced them.

Where smartphones don't qualify as commodities is the fact that the market doesn't treat them as equivalent. In other words, the fungibility criterion isn't met. Certainly, the increased competition combined with the decrease in brand dominance means that there is commoditization going on in the industry. But there are enough niches in the market that are substantial in size that we're not even close to running that down. You have die-hard Apple and Android and BlackBerry fans, for starters. You also have a significant "status" effect in technology that comes from people wanting to have the latest and greatest. In fact, there is a type of goods known as "Giffen goods" in which the higher the price, the more people seem to want it. This isn't really at play so much, but it's the most extreme example of the "status" concept at work.

So what's the implication? Simply put, Apple can still get away with some degree of murder, albeit not nearly to the extent they used to. But it's the reason why the 5C is a brilliant business play. They can do the same thing they've done for the last several years (i.e., reduce the price of the previous model by $100), but by introducing a new model that has the same functionality but can be produced at lower cost, they're able to deal with the margin erosion problem that these devices created. I'm sure the analysts will do tear-downs very soon, and we'll get a good estimate of just how much Apple is likely saving over the production cost of the regular iPhone 5, but I have to imagine it's significant. And for a company that's gotten a stock beat down, and the #1 reason for that is margin erosion (sales have actually remained steady or ticked upward), that's a very good thing for them.Thanks, it looks like we agree more than I expected. My poor choice of words. I'll be waiting for that tear down as well.

john123
Sep 11, 2013, 01:13 PM
$100 is a big deal for those who are unable to understand the total cost of the phone including the 2 year contract and the second hand value of it.

Maybe it says something about the state of education in the low taxed unregulated US? ;)

Edit: Or maybe it says something about the low wages in the US?

Hey Aaron, before you make snarky remarks about education, maybe you should go back to economics class yourself.

The price of the contract is, basically, a fixed or sunk cost. Either way you look at it, when doing economic analysis, a fundamental rule is that you never factor sunk costs into your short-run economics calculations.

The price of getting a basic smartphone, or whatever the minimum you'd possibly be willing to accept, is also a fixed cost. So the only thing that matters is the marginal cost versus the marginal utility. That's an individual calculus and is affected by preferences for wealth now versus later, risk aversion, utility attached to those features, opportunity cost of that money, and a whole bunch of other stuff.

Got it?

Signed,
John, a.k.a. the guy who still says "$100 matters", a.k.a. just a lowly Ivy League economics graduate here in the "low taxed unregulated US"

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Everyone is complaining about the price. No one knew the price before yesterday.

I believe it's the minority that believe the price is right.

If by "everyone" you mean the majority of people in this thread, then sure.

I've done numbers crunching for a very long time. I'm quite confident that when "everyone" has spoken—with their pocketbooks—you'll see substantial 5C sales. But I suppose we'll have to wait for sales numbers to confirm that.

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So for someone that doesn't own an iPhone yet...and my contract is up so time to upgrade...do I want the free 4s or the 5c? I've read the comments here and I fit the bill of a young mom and I do love the colors. Don't need manly here. I can do the extra $100 for the 5s, but is it necessary? The fingerpad lock doesn't do a darn thing for me.

Hi mommabean—looks like a lot of people are telling you what they would do, rather than advising you on your specific situation.

To answer the question you posed, I don't think the 5S is "necessary" at all. I think the real questions are:
• I know you said you "can" do the extra $100, but does the incremental $100 matter to you now very much? You'll likely get most of it back on resale.
• The biggest advantage I see isn't the fingerprint sensor but rather the improved camera—if you use that for taking pictures of your kids and such.
• One argument for the 5C is your kids. That plastic is probably more durable. I don't know if you intend to get a protective case for your phone (I always do), but that's a consideration that's specific to your situation. It also negates the colors issue too, since you can get a case in just about any color you want.

Hope that's somewhat helpful food for thought!

Swordylove
Sep 11, 2013, 06:30 PM
The 5C case is really an SMH fail.

I mean... Apple... these guys are (were?) so OCD (in a good way) that they don't want to let screws and stickers on their product exteriors, yet they allow this to happen.

Also, who cares about the price on contract? Might as well sell a $0 iPhone with a 2-year contract (that costs a total of $4800)

/endrant

Gigaman
Sep 11, 2013, 09:01 PM
At first I thought: It'll be low cost, that'll change things up. And then it wasn't free off contract.

Then I saw the changes and thought: Ah, so it's like a new iPhone 5. And- wait, why'd they change it again??

I only see this appealing to the people who buy android devices. Change for the sake of change, no matter how small it is.

john123
Sep 12, 2013, 12:18 PM
At first I thought: It'll be low cost, that'll change things up. And then it wasn't free off contract.

Then I saw the changes and thought: Ah, so it's like a new iPhone 5. And- wait, why'd they change it again??

I only see this appealing to the people who buy android devices. Change for the sake of change, no matter how small it is.

You're forgetting about shareholders. A device with the same functionality that is less expensive to manufacture is a win-win for the company and its shareholders.

Kensai
Oct 23, 2013, 02:15 AM
Apparently like the attention you put into your spelling.

Apparently I am not a native English speaker and I don't try to sell you a product. :apple: